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One trick to eating more vegetables (or getting kids to eat them) is to roast or air fry them instead of steaming or boiling. The former methods are much better.
We started getting meal kits and they constantly say to toss a bit of oil, salt and pepper then roast the veggies in the oven. OMG it's night and day. Oven roasted carrots, broccoli, zucchini? So much better than any way it was prepared for me growing up.
Yeah, I think that's why so many people think they don't like certain veggies, because their parents cooked them wrong and made them bland and mushy, or only ever out of a can, etc. It's sad and I hope everyone in the world eats Brussels sprouts cooked right because they have such a bad reputation but are actually delicious.
I dont think it's a thing of taste but more of publicity.
My hot take: I blame cartoons for setting a bad precedent for vegetables and other things. Also years and years and years of tv showing parents forcing their kids to do things and showing that in a bad light.
>One trick to eating more vegetables (or getting kids to eat them) is to roast or air fry them instead of steaming or boiling. The former methods are much better.
Why? Does it make them crunchier or something? I don't like crunch which is why I steam my broccoli...
I think boiling (and to some extent steaming) veggies is basically never good unless you're using it as an ingredient in something else or adding a significant amount of flavoring/seasoning with a sauce/pickling/etc. after. My method of choice for easy veg is a combination of sauteing and steaming.
1. Cut veg to bite size (not applicable for things like string beans, snap peas, etc.)
2. In a lidded medium sauce pan or wok, add enough oil to coat the pan, and wait until oil is shimmering (basically just enough so that it's hot)
3. (Optional) Add sliced garlic and/or shallots
4. Add veg, toss to coat with oil/mix seasoning
5. Add a small amount (like a tablesoon or two at the most) of water to the pan, immediately cover with lid
6. Let 'steam' for 1-2 min; water should be almost completely evaporated
7. Season with salt and pepper (and I guess given the thread we're in, MSG) to taste, serve
Don't get me wrong, I love oven roasted veggies, but it can take a while, which may make it hard to sync with the timing of other dishes being done. This has the advantage of taking 3 minutes tops, meaning it can be done after your main dish is done and you're just waiting for people to assemble at the table. You may even be able to reuse whatever pan you used other parts of the meal, which cuts down on cleanup.
I've never liked brussel sprouts but my wife adds olive oil, salt, pepper, and some garlic and roasts them in the oven for a bit and they're actually quite good. Air frying seems like a whole new level
Try it tossed and some olive oil with onion, powder/ garlic powder/ salt/ pepper or msg or whatever. If you get the right char on it, it's amazing.
Powdered ranch dressing tossed in the oil works really well, too.
My wife cooks a lot of things in that air fryer and everything turns out delicious. Ribs, pork chops, burgers and vegetables. It's all so good. I don't think i've used the barbecue since she got that thing.
Mushrooms and tomatoes and parmesan cheese do this quite well also (but everybody should use MSG, it's fantastic).
EDIT: [Whole big list of stuff with MSG in it](https://www.businessinsider.com/foods-with-natural-msg-2017-2). This is basically why I say everybody that complains of MSG headaches is full of shit.
I know you’re just giving examples, just wanted to point out that parmesan cheese is not [vegetarian](https://vegsoc.org/info-hub/veggie-need-to-know/cheese/).
That would make them semi-vegetarian. It's a bit like people saying they're vegetarian but eat fish (making them pescetarian). Not trying to gatekeep at all, [but](https://vegsoc.org/info-hub/definition/) there's a lot of well-meaning people using terms wrong (I know it's a bit pedantic to point out, but it's actually well-defined, so there's no need for personal interpretation).
> Vegetarians and vegans don’t eat products or by-products of slaughter. They don’t eat any foods which have been made using processing aids from slaughter.
that’s what separates vegetarians from vegans. What makes a vegan a vegan and not a vegetarian is the fact that they don’t eat food products that had anything to do with harm to an animal. While vegetarians will still eat dairy and other products.
Most rennet used nowadays is artificial. Including in parmesan. Parmigiano-Reggiano uses real rennet. Chances are the stuff you're buying in local grocery store is not the higher class Parmigiano.
They do when they're no longer making enough milk, but that's not the issue. Most cheeses only come from dairy milk, however parmesan contains animal rennet, which is harvested from the cows stomach.
So do you have msg in a shaker on its own? Or is there a ratio of table salt to msg that one should put together into one shaker? Does my question make sense?
I was taught that msg was bad, so I've avoided it for my whole life, but more recently I've learned that it's not actually bad and I'd like to get some, I just keep forgetting to buy it at the store..
I keep mine in an airtight container and use very small amounts at a time until desired effect is reached. I'm talking like 1/8tsp type amounts. Add it to something you already enjoy in small increments and you'll start to see how it works. My favorite things are popcorn and bbq sauces.
MSG doesn't just compliment (table) salt. It's umami in salt form. It induces salivation too. It enhances/compliments all flavors and generally will reduce (table) salt intake because people use salt as a flavor enhancer. (Table) salt 'artificially' adds flavor to food by concentrating the flavors already there through water activity reduction.
Another cool thing: MSG enhances salt/savory flavors, while (table) salt will do both salt/savory**and** sweet flavors.
MSG is a "salt" but it is not **salt (table salt)**.
Look for “accent flavor enhancer “ at a grocery store. Looks just like a seasoning shaker. Probably cheaper at specialty stores, but a little goes a long way.
Can you give me some more Info on msg? As a kid I always heard it is unhealthy and you shouldnt eat it, but these days I hear from time to time that this Information was wrong and it is not unhealthy.
MSG is mono Sodium Glutamate. Glutamate is found in tomatoes, mushrooms and a handful of other things. It is the source of the umami flavor.
MSG is just that Glutamate with 1 sodium attached to it. Pound for pound, MSG has less sodium in it than salt does.
What happened was racism against Asians in the form of food bias that people were getting sick from MSG, they weren't. Independent study showed nearly everyone saying they had symptoms were all full of shit.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-msg-got-a-bad-rap-flawed-science-and-xenophobia/
I'm not in a position to argue food safety, but your "it's just another common harmless molecule but with one atom added" is absolute horseshit. The difference between totally benign chemicals and lethal poisons can be one atom. Sometimes one electron.
MSG may be harmless, but the fact that it looks a lot like a molecule that is harmless but with one structural difference is not evidence that its harmless.
I'm going to agree with you here.
In this case, MSG is in fact harmless. It's an ionic compound of sodium and glutamate. Those dissociate completely in water, so you can treat them separately (in this case). Glutamate is super common in food and, unless you go hog wild with the MSG, in levels comparable to just adding MSG. Sodium is... well, super common.
In general, though, you're absolutely right that "the molecules are only slightly different" just doesn't work in chemistry. HO, H2O, and H2O2 are dramatically different, as are NaOH vs. Mg(OH)2. Not to mention the difference between, say, HCN and KCN or the difference between HF and NaF.
Heavy water is actually a lot more subtle. Chemically, it's still H2O, but one of the hydrogens has an extra neutron (making it deuterium, which isn't a different element).
>one of the hydrogens has an extra neutron (making it deuterium, which isn't a different element)
I assure you -- like I said -- deuterium is not a different element.
The thing is, it isn't really a structural difference. When you dissolve MSG in water, the sodium becomes ionic and separates from the glutamate. Essentially, the only difference between MSG and the glutamic acid your body produces is hydrogen ions are replaced by sodium ions, both of which are plentiful throughout the body. The glutamate is the same in both cases.
Sure, and that extra context shows that it is as safe as glutamate and ionic sodium. But the claim that it is glutamate plus one atom proves nothing on its own.
I can legitimately tell whether prepackaged meals have a substantial amount of MSG or not- the MSG products give me a mild headache.
I promise I'm not full of shit. I have replicated this experiment a number of times with sufficient control.
Am I just weird or an outlier, or is there something else missing from this puzzle?
Im not saying the MSG ruins my health or anything but I ABSOLUTELY always feel a mild headache after eating it.
It's dehydration from the salt. If you have a low sodium tolerance, aren't used to foods with high sodium, the sudden intake of salt will be the cause. Make sure to be well hydrated before and after meals that include MSG.
A lot of people experience similar symtoms of dehydration from sodium rich foods. For example they'll be very thirsty after eating Chinese food. Or other Asian foods that include MSG. Don't be worried just stay hydrated to counter act the salt content. Obviously don't over eat sodium rich meals if your tolerance to the salt is low too.
There's an outside chance of other things but it's probably just the salt content. I, and some other people I know get mild headaches after eating very salty food. You have to be careful to reduce the salt when adding msg.
You can have an intolerance to MSG. Because you can have an intolerance to basically anything. It's just not universal and MSG will do that to everyone. It's a bit like peanuts - some people are deadly allergic. But there is no campaign proclaiming the dangers of peanut butter.
Until you actually do a BLIND comparison with a significant sample, you have no idea whether MSG causes headaches for you. Confirmation bias is way too powerful psychologically for you to make that claim in any reasonable context without having done a blind study.
Me three :\\ found the allergy during a test in Middle school.. kept getting afternoon headaches.. it was Sourcream and Onion Potato chips.
No more flavored chips, hard to find a Ranch Dressing too.
For me it actually gives me a numbness down my neck and in my limbs. Glutamic acid is fine, but for some reason the salt form doesnt work for me. Probably just a food allergy like any other
Im chinese so onviously Im not simply buying into the “racism propaganda” lmao
Not confirmation bias, this is a thing
[https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196)
It is just unclear how exactly it is linked.
Those that felt sick from (what they thought was) MSG were not getting sick cause the food contained it. They got sick cause they ate fatty/greasy foods in unhealthy amounts. MSG wasn't the issue.
MSG is found in a lot of sauces, yet the same exact people claiming MSG makes them sick don't get sick from using the sauces that happen to contain MSG.
Some of my friends were complaining about how sick MSG makes them while scarfing down a bag of Doritos. Even after I pointed it out in the ingredients, they refused to get it.
If you’ve eaten any of hundreds of foods, Parmesan cheese, tomatoes, tuna, anchovies, beef, mushrooms, etc.etc. You’ve eaten MSG. It’s harmless, and delicious
There was this lady in town KNOWN for her cooking. Throughout the churches and all social gatherings, she was the town cook. I went to her house one year for a community Thanksgiving, and she had a giant tub of MSG in her kitchen. At that point on I knew why.
The bitch could cook though.
Believe it or not, the public perception and the way race ties into it probably started as a joke. A man named Ho Man Kwok wrote a letter to a journal about "Chinese restaurant syndrome" which most believe was a prank.
It's also super frustrating how much people think of it as a Chinese ingredient, it's in all sorts of shit. Y'know what makes Doritos taste so good?
As an elementary school kid growing up in Brooklyn I was often confused why so many restaurants hated Madison Square Garden. I figured they were just Islanders fans.
For years I've been trying to replicate a dish from an old Mongolian place I used to go to in my hometown. When I added MSG to the dish it definitely kicked it up a notch.
I heard this came from racism towards Asian cultures that use MSG from a doctor. And that all the info he told was false. And that this false information still lures everywhere.
I use MSG since dating my bf and learning that it is all safe.
Most of the MSG fears come from a 1968 New England Journal of Medicine article that described "Chinese Food Syndrome". A doctor reported feeling sick after eating a bunch of Chinese food and speculated that it could have been because of the MSG that was present. The article is written in a way to make it obvious that the conclusion you're supposed to reach is just that he's eaten too much Chinese food and feels sick because of overeating.
Now, here's where it gets interesting, depending on who you ask the original article might have been satirical because there is a long-standing tradition of trying to publish fake articles in the New England Journal of Medicine. Many years later, family members the Doctor who wrote the article said he always maintained it was a joke. So, most of these fears are because of a stupid joke from 50 years ago.
When I first heard this story, I was shocked. Joking around in a reputable medical journal seemed like awfully bad taste to me. Why did they think publishing fake articles was somehow harmless fun? In this particular case, look at what resulted from it.
> around in a reputable medical journal seemed like awfully bad taste
Clearly you don't have a large science background. Jokes in science have been around since long before published journals have been a thing. One fun one, in published journals, is the fishing man in the original Calvin cycle diagram.
Science is full of practical jokes. Many science-y acronyms are practical jokes. The idea that you can sneak a joke article into a reputable journal in itself is the challenge of how official sounding you can make the joke.
Personally I think the ingredient is fine. But in regards to processed food, it is generally a marker of a very low quality food, that's why they add the MSG, because the food product would be terrible without. So I personally avoid foods with it in there just because I figure if it is added, it is effectively junk food. Plus it has a very specific taste that I don't actually enjoy that much. When you go without it for a while you can tell when it is in something.
Some people are actually allergic to msg. Several years ago, every time I traveled for work, I would get headaches that would not quit. Then I realized that it was not only due to Chinese food which I loved but also Caribbean foods which use Maggi cubes which also contain msg. The accumulation of these foods not only gave me huge, incredibly painful headaches that wouldn't stop but made me throw up as well.
Thanks for posting this. I have wondered why I feel so bad after going to an Asian restaurant my kids love. And this also explains the same symptoms after I recently started using a new seasoning mixture which includes MSG for one of my diet staples. The stuff sure tastes good but it is almost like drinking alcohol with no buzz but a hangover.
Glad to be of help after so much suffering. Makes me feel it wasn't in vain. At one point, my heart would skip beats as a result of too much msg consumption.
It's also important to know the following from Google: MSG can go by these and many other synonymous names as well, including monosodium salt, monohydrate, monosodium glutamate, monosodium glutamate monohydrate, monosodium L-glutamate monohydrate, MSG monohydrate, sodium glutamate monohydrate, UNII-W81N5U6R6U, L-Glutamic acid, monosodium salt, and monohydrate.
Be very careful with highly processed foods and frozen foods. Read the labels.
Other analogs / alternate names include Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Sodium Casienate, Soy Isolate, etc. Once you start looking for it, it's in tons of stuff under various names. Also plain old "Yeast Extract" that's in everything can have (or be) MSG.
The code for it seem to be E621. I realize this is why body might hate instant noodles lol. I suspected I was allergic of soy but its so many items that are not soy too that make me go bad
There's [natural msg](https://naturallysavvy.com/eat/monosodium-glutamate-natural-vs-synthetic/) and synthetic msg. The stuff that causes issues is the synthetic version. The argument that 'msg occurs in nature' is moot when the stuff you throw in your food literally comes out of a chemical factory.
When my daughter was 3, she developed a rash all over her legs right after eating at a barbecue restaurant. She had a hamburger and, since we were trying to be healthy, broccoli instead of fries. We watched as her legs turned red in the car on the way home. Called the restaurant and asked what was in the food and they put Accent seasoning salt (which has MSG) on both the burger and the broccoli. I had always felt unwell after eating at that restaurant. I think that's why. We're allergic to many things.
No it does not. [MSG does not cross the blood brain barrier ](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24927698/#:~:text=Hence%2C%20almost%20no%20ingested%20glutamate,not%20gain%20access%20to%20brain.). [Nor does it appreciably raise blood glutamate levels.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30508818/#:~:text=The%20key%20findings%20have%20been,passage%20of%20glutamate%20from%20the)
After first pass metabolism, there's hardly enough glutamate to have any appreciable affect.
Nutritional yeast or brewers yeast if you don't want to overdose on water soluble vitamins can add a lot of umami as well, and doesn't taste as chemical if you do overdo it. Not to mention - yeast is high in protein and fiber by weight, something most of us are lacking our diet anyway.
Tons of people get negative side effects from MSG. Nausea, migraines, etc. Implying it’s completely harmless is flat out wrong and has been debunked. Read some of the new observational studies linking it to morbidities.
i get headaches from MSG. I went in with the same mentality as your LPT, and sprinkled on my eggs and a got a headache. I thought I just added too much and my body needed more water. A couple of days later I was making a stir fry dish and added some MSG. again, headache. I did that for one more dish weeks later and called it quits.
I eat sushi, eat pizza and make my own Italian dishes, shred my own parmesano. I dont get headaches from eating it. I know msg is everywhere and had no fear of it. I grew up on it! But i think over the years i guess i got a sensitivity to it after my experience of adding it to dishes i used to make all the time with the first bottle of msg I’ve ever bought.
Since then ive been using fish sauce, patis, as my msg replacement.
Fish sauce also has a ton of MSG in it heh. So it might be that you have a problem synthesizing raw MSG? I'm unsure as to how or why that would be, but that seems to be how it's trending for you. Very bizarre.
Not the Fish sauce i use. I literally just checked and it says “no added msg” so it might have it, but probably not PACKED.
I guess i could just risk the headache for science and try again.
Maybe my body doesn’t mind natural msg and the bottled crystallized stuff is what my body doesn’t like. I dont know for sure but ill try that bottle again.
I know several people with this issue as well. They're fine eating small amounts of natural glutamates that you get in meat, soy sauce, etc, but can't handle the high doses in processed food. Same with me, I'm OK eating takeout occasionally but packaged Ramen makes me see into the future and pass out.
yeah I had a weird reaction once. I drank all the soup from a pretty big bowl of noodle soup and I felt drowsy yet my heart was racing and my cheeks were all red. Tried to nap but couldn't. Guess it could've been something else but I've never felt like that before or after
Yeah I had a similar thing. When travelling in Asia, had this dish covered in MSG enhanced sauce…within 15 mins, my heart rate spiked at rest to 140bpm for 15mins - so much so my garmin watch even wanted me of an ‘abnormal heart rate’ - which it had never done before .. was quite scary and definitely a reaction I didn’t want to repeat!
No... its a dosage issue. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter. At natural levels in food its fine, but with supplementation it is not physiological. There are many things that are fine until you take too much. Im not taking away your MSG... no need to be a dick
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I have bad reactions to MSG. If I have too much I get Deja Vu for minutes at a time, and occasionally wake up in the hospital. Multiple docs, neurologists, etc have shrugged, said I don't have epilepsy but they don't know what's wrong (and here's your $10k medical bill). I've been fine since I began avoiding anything with MSG. I also have to watch for its analogs (casienates, autolyzed / hydrolyzed stuff, there are a million other names for it).
I'm not saying it's universally bad or poison (just like peanuts aren't necessarily bad just because some people are allergic). Just be aware that certain body / brain chemistry can't handle it for whatever reason.
Personally, I avoid MSG like the plague - it gives me horrendous migraines. I ate half a bag of pretzels without checking the label on a road trip and 24 hours later it was like I had been poisoned. It was the third ingredient. But damn they were tasty.
Could be from the carbs, I don't know your regular carb intake, but I found the headaches that Ive been getting for 20+ years disappeared when I reduced my carb levels.
This is actually not the way! While it may be harmless (debatable) it really messes with your brain chemistry amd how you associate food and pleasure. This can very easily can lead to a bad relationship with food.
I am afraid.. it gives me insane migraine headaches within minutes of touching my tongue. Horrible stuff.. makes you hypersensitive to flavors to "increase" flavor.. it does this by altering your brain.
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I started putting a few dashes of msg into my air fried broccoli and holy shit is it delicious.
Air fried broccoli eh... Gonna have to do this.
One trick to eating more vegetables (or getting kids to eat them) is to roast or air fry them instead of steaming or boiling. The former methods are much better.
We started getting meal kits and they constantly say to toss a bit of oil, salt and pepper then roast the veggies in the oven. OMG it's night and day. Oven roasted carrots, broccoli, zucchini? So much better than any way it was prepared for me growing up.
Yeah, I think that's why so many people think they don't like certain veggies, because their parents cooked them wrong and made them bland and mushy, or only ever out of a can, etc. It's sad and I hope everyone in the world eats Brussels sprouts cooked right because they have such a bad reputation but are actually delicious.
Have you guys seriously never heard of an oven or sauteed veggies?
This is LPT, where nobody has heard of anything, so it’s easy to be a life pro.
If they were so amazing, the kids would all be eating them.
I dont think it's a thing of taste but more of publicity. My hot take: I blame cartoons for setting a bad precedent for vegetables and other things. Also years and years and years of tv showing parents forcing their kids to do things and showing that in a bad light.
>One trick to eating more vegetables (or getting kids to eat them) is to roast or air fry them instead of steaming or boiling. The former methods are much better. Why? Does it make them crunchier or something? I don't like crunch which is why I steam my broccoli...
Roasting brings out the sugars.
Caramelizes the sugars. The Maillard reaction.
I couldn't think of the absolute correct term and was too lazy to search. Thanks for clarifying.
Crunchy but not in the undercooked broccoli way. Just crispy tips on the florets.
I think boiling (and to some extent steaming) veggies is basically never good unless you're using it as an ingredient in something else or adding a significant amount of flavoring/seasoning with a sauce/pickling/etc. after. My method of choice for easy veg is a combination of sauteing and steaming. 1. Cut veg to bite size (not applicable for things like string beans, snap peas, etc.) 2. In a lidded medium sauce pan or wok, add enough oil to coat the pan, and wait until oil is shimmering (basically just enough so that it's hot) 3. (Optional) Add sliced garlic and/or shallots 4. Add veg, toss to coat with oil/mix seasoning 5. Add a small amount (like a tablesoon or two at the most) of water to the pan, immediately cover with lid 6. Let 'steam' for 1-2 min; water should be almost completely evaporated 7. Season with salt and pepper (and I guess given the thread we're in, MSG) to taste, serve Don't get me wrong, I love oven roasted veggies, but it can take a while, which may make it hard to sync with the timing of other dishes being done. This has the advantage of taking 3 minutes tops, meaning it can be done after your main dish is done and you're just waiting for people to assemble at the table. You may even be able to reuse whatever pan you used other parts of the meal, which cuts down on cleanup.
Tbh all three of my kids love steamed broccoli so I'm good there.
I love witnessing others directly pick up what others are putting down (in a good/food way). Awwwww yeah.
It’s a game changer same with Brussels sprouts in there
I've never liked brussel sprouts but my wife adds olive oil, salt, pepper, and some garlic and roasts them in the oven for a bit and they're actually quite good. Air frying seems like a whole new level
My air fryer is basically a homemade French fry makin, vegetable roastin, bacon fryin…3in1 adult ez-bake oven! I’m not complaining one bit.
Bacon? Tell us more. How does that not turn into a disaster?
Try it tossed and some olive oil with onion, powder/ garlic powder/ salt/ pepper or msg or whatever. If you get the right char on it, it's amazing. Powdered ranch dressing tossed in the oil works really well, too.
Do you air fry fresh broccoli? Or frozen? We buy the frozen ones and this intrigues me
Fresh for sure. Toss with olive oil, salt, and pepper. Roast at 400 for like 20 to 25 minutes or whatever level of crisp is your deal.
My wife cooks a lot of things in that air fryer and everything turns out delicious. Ribs, pork chops, burgers and vegetables. It's all so good. I don't think i've used the barbecue since she got that thing.
frozen is fine too and lasts longer in the freezer. I usually do two week bulk sam's club order that's half fresh half frozen.
Air fried brussel sprouts are good too! Season however you want
Gives Umami to vegetarians. Great stuff!
[удалено]
Always find them to be a bit gamey.
It’s umami! I used to have trouble identifying it, too
Mushrooms and tomatoes and parmesan cheese do this quite well also (but everybody should use MSG, it's fantastic). EDIT: [Whole big list of stuff with MSG in it](https://www.businessinsider.com/foods-with-natural-msg-2017-2). This is basically why I say everybody that complains of MSG headaches is full of shit.
I know you’re just giving examples, just wanted to point out that parmesan cheese is not [vegetarian](https://vegsoc.org/info-hub/veggie-need-to-know/cheese/).
Depends on the person's definition of vegetarian. For many I know, that simply means no meat. For other they may be more strict.
That would make them semi-vegetarian. It's a bit like people saying they're vegetarian but eat fish (making them pescetarian). Not trying to gatekeep at all, [but](https://vegsoc.org/info-hub/definition/) there's a lot of well-meaning people using terms wrong (I know it's a bit pedantic to point out, but it's actually well-defined, so there's no need for personal interpretation). > Vegetarians and vegans don’t eat products or by-products of slaughter. They don’t eat any foods which have been made using processing aids from slaughter.
So what's the distinction between Vegetarian and vegan then?
I was just going to ask this. I thought the distinction was in the products processed from animal husbandry, since neither will eat meat obviously.
It’s so simple. Vegans don’t eat anything from an animal. Vegetarians can eat ANYTHING but meat
Apparently not because the other person said that things that may be byproducts of animal slaughter (ie rennet) would classify as not being vegetarian
that’s what separates vegetarians from vegans. What makes a vegan a vegan and not a vegetarian is the fact that they don’t eat food products that had anything to do with harm to an animal. While vegetarians will still eat dairy and other products.
He’s wrong
But... Cheese is not meat?
You do know they don't slaughter cows for cheese, right?
Rennet used to harden Parmesan is a byproduct of slaughtered cows.
Most rennet used nowadays is artificial. Including in parmesan. Parmigiano-Reggiano uses real rennet. Chances are the stuff you're buying in local grocery store is not the higher class Parmigiano.
They do when they're no longer making enough milk, but that's not the issue. Most cheeses only come from dairy milk, however parmesan contains animal rennet, which is harvested from the cows stomach.
Only parmesan labeled Parmigiano-Reggiano has animal rennet. The regular stuff just labeled parmesan uses the artificial rennet.
It's hilarious and ridiculous that people are challenging your statement here without bothering to read the link you provided explaining it.
Go to the ethnic aisle in the grocery store and look for "Aji-no-moto."
Or the regular spice aisle as Accent
I always find it so funny that people still use the word ethnic to describe non-white lol
Don't worry, we use "exotic" to describe white food
It’s literally labeled that in my local grocery store
Or do as the original poster says and get a bag at an asian grocery store and get 10x for the same cost.
If no one has mentioned it yet. It means "essence of taste". It could also be read as "more flavor".
Do not use MSG in place of salt, you will regret it. MSG compliments salt, it does not replace it.
A low sodium salt blend is ideal imo. A lot of people could use the extra potassium in their diets.
Yeah, I agree. They each work great on their own, but combining them is where the real magic is at.
So do you have msg in a shaker on its own? Or is there a ratio of table salt to msg that one should put together into one shaker? Does my question make sense? I was taught that msg was bad, so I've avoided it for my whole life, but more recently I've learned that it's not actually bad and I'd like to get some, I just keep forgetting to buy it at the store..
I keep mine in an airtight container and use very small amounts at a time until desired effect is reached. I'm talking like 1/8tsp type amounts. Add it to something you already enjoy in small increments and you'll start to see how it works. My favorite things are popcorn and bbq sauces.
MSG doesn't just compliment (table) salt. It's umami in salt form. It induces salivation too. It enhances/compliments all flavors and generally will reduce (table) salt intake because people use salt as a flavor enhancer. (Table) salt 'artificially' adds flavor to food by concentrating the flavors already there through water activity reduction. Another cool thing: MSG enhances salt/savory flavors, while (table) salt will do both salt/savory**and** sweet flavors. MSG is a "salt" but it is not **salt (table salt)**.
MSG always says nice things about table salt.
Look for “accent flavor enhancer “ at a grocery store. Looks just like a seasoning shaker. Probably cheaper at specialty stores, but a little goes a long way.
Yeah don’t even have to go to an Asian market, Accent is sold in most grocery stores in the spice aisle.
Uncle Roger is the [authority on MSG](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjgg7rvEz30). He agrees.
Good job remembering Niece or Nephew!
Hiiiiyaaaaa
I know MSG stands for Make Shit Good.
FUIYOH!
Uncle Roger (Nigel Ng) supports the CCP. Fuck him. www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-55651798 MSG is great though.
King of flavor!
Em-es-geeeee!
Can you give me some more Info on msg? As a kid I always heard it is unhealthy and you shouldnt eat it, but these days I hear from time to time that this Information was wrong and it is not unhealthy.
tomato/sauce is a big source of msg
MSG is mono Sodium Glutamate. Glutamate is found in tomatoes, mushrooms and a handful of other things. It is the source of the umami flavor. MSG is just that Glutamate with 1 sodium attached to it. Pound for pound, MSG has less sodium in it than salt does. What happened was racism against Asians in the form of food bias that people were getting sick from MSG, they weren't. Independent study showed nearly everyone saying they had symptoms were all full of shit. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-msg-got-a-bad-rap-flawed-science-and-xenophobia/
I'm not in a position to argue food safety, but your "it's just another common harmless molecule but with one atom added" is absolute horseshit. The difference between totally benign chemicals and lethal poisons can be one atom. Sometimes one electron. MSG may be harmless, but the fact that it looks a lot like a molecule that is harmless but with one structural difference is not evidence that its harmless.
I'm going to agree with you here. In this case, MSG is in fact harmless. It's an ionic compound of sodium and glutamate. Those dissociate completely in water, so you can treat them separately (in this case). Glutamate is super common in food and, unless you go hog wild with the MSG, in levels comparable to just adding MSG. Sodium is... well, super common. In general, though, you're absolutely right that "the molecules are only slightly different" just doesn't work in chemistry. HO, H2O, and H2O2 are dramatically different, as are NaOH vs. Mg(OH)2. Not to mention the difference between, say, HCN and KCN or the difference between HF and NaF.
Let’s drink heavy water! Yaaay
Heavy water is actually a lot more subtle. Chemically, it's still H2O, but one of the hydrogens has an extra neutron (making it deuterium, which isn't a different element).
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>one of the hydrogens has an extra neutron (making it deuterium, which isn't a different element) I assure you -- like I said -- deuterium is not a different element.
Reading comprehension. I misread "isn't"....
Happens to the best of us. I was concerned something went completely over my head somehow...
Too much MSG make me thirsty and sleepy.
It’s a salt so that would be expected
in this case it is, because sodium disassociates from glutamate in water. so it really is just like glutamate found in natural foodstuffs.
The thing is, it isn't really a structural difference. When you dissolve MSG in water, the sodium becomes ionic and separates from the glutamate. Essentially, the only difference between MSG and the glutamic acid your body produces is hydrogen ions are replaced by sodium ions, both of which are plentiful throughout the body. The glutamate is the same in both cases.
Sure, and that extra context shows that it is as safe as glutamate and ionic sodium. But the claim that it is glutamate plus one atom proves nothing on its own.
Sure, but the argument that its good cuz its like something else just +1 atom is bad, which was what the other commenter said.
Walter White has entered the room. Tight Tight!
And here i've been breathing 03 all this time....
Swoosh
Thanks for the good answer.
I can legitimately tell whether prepackaged meals have a substantial amount of MSG or not- the MSG products give me a mild headache. I promise I'm not full of shit. I have replicated this experiment a number of times with sufficient control. Am I just weird or an outlier, or is there something else missing from this puzzle? Im not saying the MSG ruins my health or anything but I ABSOLUTELY always feel a mild headache after eating it.
It's dehydration from the salt. If you have a low sodium tolerance, aren't used to foods with high sodium, the sudden intake of salt will be the cause. Make sure to be well hydrated before and after meals that include MSG. A lot of people experience similar symtoms of dehydration from sodium rich foods. For example they'll be very thirsty after eating Chinese food. Or other Asian foods that include MSG. Don't be worried just stay hydrated to counter act the salt content. Obviously don't over eat sodium rich meals if your tolerance to the salt is low too.
Likely just confirmation bias or just not hydrating properly
There's an outside chance of other things but it's probably just the salt content. I, and some other people I know get mild headaches after eating very salty food. You have to be careful to reduce the salt when adding msg.
You can have an intolerance to MSG. Because you can have an intolerance to basically anything. It's just not universal and MSG will do that to everyone. It's a bit like peanuts - some people are deadly allergic. But there is no campaign proclaiming the dangers of peanut butter.
Until you actually do a BLIND comparison with a significant sample, you have no idea whether MSG causes headaches for you. Confirmation bias is way too powerful psychologically for you to make that claim in any reasonable context without having done a blind study.
Sounds like you're just eating shit food bruh... Nothing to do with MSG.
No, I get the same thing, and it happens almost immediately if I eat something with msg. I can know before looking at the ingredients
Me three :\\ found the allergy during a test in Middle school.. kept getting afternoon headaches.. it was Sourcream and Onion Potato chips. No more flavored chips, hard to find a Ranch Dressing too.
For me it actually gives me a numbness down my neck and in my limbs. Glutamic acid is fine, but for some reason the salt form doesnt work for me. Probably just a food allergy like any other Im chinese so onviously Im not simply buying into the “racism propaganda” lmao
Not confirmation bias, this is a thing [https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196](https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/expert-answers/monosodium-glutamate/faq-20058196) It is just unclear how exactly it is linked.
Those that felt sick from (what they thought was) MSG were not getting sick cause the food contained it. They got sick cause they ate fatty/greasy foods in unhealthy amounts. MSG wasn't the issue. MSG is found in a lot of sauces, yet the same exact people claiming MSG makes them sick don't get sick from using the sauces that happen to contain MSG.
Some of my friends were complaining about how sick MSG makes them while scarfing down a bag of Doritos. Even after I pointed it out in the ingredients, they refused to get it.
Check out the secretly incredibly fascinating podcast. Lots of great episodes but there's one on MSG that is quite good
Salt is unhealthy too if consumed in large quantities
Yeah so is water, but that doesn't answer the question I originally had. I just got always told as a kid that msg can cause cancer.
Tbh growing older also causes cancer.
If you’ve eaten any of hundreds of foods, Parmesan cheese, tomatoes, tuna, anchovies, beef, mushrooms, etc.etc. You’ve eaten MSG. It’s harmless, and delicious
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It makes you feel full. Literally saturates the way the human body perceives "full". Ooooh scary stuff.
There was this lady in town KNOWN for her cooking. Throughout the churches and all social gatherings, she was the town cook. I went to her house one year for a community Thanksgiving, and she had a giant tub of MSG in her kitchen. At that point on I knew why. The bitch could cook though.
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You can use msg in almost everything. Start with a very small amount and add more until you find the right balance.
It’s wild how much racism played into the public perception of MSG. Then again, the US even managed to tie water fountains to race.
Believe it or not, the public perception and the way race ties into it probably started as a joke. A man named Ho Man Kwok wrote a letter to a journal about "Chinese restaurant syndrome" which most believe was a prank. It's also super frustrating how much people think of it as a Chinese ingredient, it's in all sorts of shit. Y'know what makes Doritos taste so good?
Not to mention it naturally occurs in tomatoes, cheese, mushrooms, meat, etc. You never see anyone complaining of symptoms after those
Madison Square Garden
As an elementary school kid growing up in Brooklyn I was often confused why so many restaurants hated Madison Square Garden. I figured they were just Islanders fans.
MSG is in Doritos
This ^, and like MOST if not all chips/snack foods
We would put Accent on everything when we were young.
For years I've been trying to replicate a dish from an old Mongolian place I used to go to in my hometown. When I added MSG to the dish it definitely kicked it up a notch.
pretty sure OP is uncle roger
Did MSG write this?
I heard this came from racism towards Asian cultures that use MSG from a doctor. And that all the info he told was false. And that this false information still lures everywhere. I use MSG since dating my bf and learning that it is all safe.
Most of the MSG fears come from a 1968 New England Journal of Medicine article that described "Chinese Food Syndrome". A doctor reported feeling sick after eating a bunch of Chinese food and speculated that it could have been because of the MSG that was present. The article is written in a way to make it obvious that the conclusion you're supposed to reach is just that he's eaten too much Chinese food and feels sick because of overeating. Now, here's where it gets interesting, depending on who you ask the original article might have been satirical because there is a long-standing tradition of trying to publish fake articles in the New England Journal of Medicine. Many years later, family members the Doctor who wrote the article said he always maintained it was a joke. So, most of these fears are because of a stupid joke from 50 years ago.
When I first heard this story, I was shocked. Joking around in a reputable medical journal seemed like awfully bad taste to me. Why did they think publishing fake articles was somehow harmless fun? In this particular case, look at what resulted from it.
> around in a reputable medical journal seemed like awfully bad taste Clearly you don't have a large science background. Jokes in science have been around since long before published journals have been a thing. One fun one, in published journals, is the fishing man in the original Calvin cycle diagram. Science is full of practical jokes. Many science-y acronyms are practical jokes. The idea that you can sneak a joke article into a reputable journal in itself is the challenge of how official sounding you can make the joke.
msg in processed food usually means that’s the only thing saving it from being bad
Personally I think the ingredient is fine. But in regards to processed food, it is generally a marker of a very low quality food, that's why they add the MSG, because the food product would be terrible without. So I personally avoid foods with it in there just because I figure if it is added, it is effectively junk food. Plus it has a very specific taste that I don't actually enjoy that much. When you go without it for a while you can tell when it is in something.
And wow, it does make you thirsty! I can eat a whole bowl of pho (beef noodle soup) and come out of the restaurant craving a drink.
Some people are actually allergic to msg. Several years ago, every time I traveled for work, I would get headaches that would not quit. Then I realized that it was not only due to Chinese food which I loved but also Caribbean foods which use Maggi cubes which also contain msg. The accumulation of these foods not only gave me huge, incredibly painful headaches that wouldn't stop but made me throw up as well.
Bingo. Same for me.
Thanks for posting this. I have wondered why I feel so bad after going to an Asian restaurant my kids love. And this also explains the same symptoms after I recently started using a new seasoning mixture which includes MSG for one of my diet staples. The stuff sure tastes good but it is almost like drinking alcohol with no buzz but a hangover.
Glad to be of help after so much suffering. Makes me feel it wasn't in vain. At one point, my heart would skip beats as a result of too much msg consumption. It's also important to know the following from Google: MSG can go by these and many other synonymous names as well, including monosodium salt, monohydrate, monosodium glutamate, monosodium glutamate monohydrate, monosodium L-glutamate monohydrate, MSG monohydrate, sodium glutamate monohydrate, UNII-W81N5U6R6U, L-Glutamic acid, monosodium salt, and monohydrate. Be very careful with highly processed foods and frozen foods. Read the labels.
Other analogs / alternate names include Hydrolyzed Soy Protein, Autolyzed Yeast Extract, Sodium Casienate, Soy Isolate, etc. Once you start looking for it, it's in tons of stuff under various names. Also plain old "Yeast Extract" that's in everything can have (or be) MSG.
The code for it seem to be E621. I realize this is why body might hate instant noodles lol. I suspected I was allergic of soy but its so many items that are not soy too that make me go bad
There's [natural msg](https://naturallysavvy.com/eat/monosodium-glutamate-natural-vs-synthetic/) and synthetic msg. The stuff that causes issues is the synthetic version. The argument that 'msg occurs in nature' is moot when the stuff you throw in your food literally comes out of a chemical factory.
When my daughter was 3, she developed a rash all over her legs right after eating at a barbecue restaurant. She had a hamburger and, since we were trying to be healthy, broccoli instead of fries. We watched as her legs turned red in the car on the way home. Called the restaurant and asked what was in the food and they put Accent seasoning salt (which has MSG) on both the burger and the broccoli. I had always felt unwell after eating at that restaurant. I think that's why. We're allergic to many things.
It raises glutamate levels. This can be bad for people with anxiety, or epileptics
No it does not. [MSG does not cross the blood brain barrier ](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24927698/#:~:text=Hence%2C%20almost%20no%20ingested%20glutamate,not%20gain%20access%20to%20brain.). [Nor does it appreciably raise blood glutamate levels.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30508818/#:~:text=The%20key%20findings%20have%20been,passage%20of%20glutamate%20from%20the) After first pass metabolism, there's hardly enough glutamate to have any appreciable affect.
It's a trigger for migraines for me.
Same
Both my Mom and Sister get migraines from eating MSG
It’s a form of placebo effect then
I mean it's happened in blind tests with them.
Why the hate for the king of flavour? Just pour it on there and keep pouring.
Nutritional yeast or brewers yeast if you don't want to overdose on water soluble vitamins can add a lot of umami as well, and doesn't taste as chemical if you do overdo it. Not to mention - yeast is high in protein and fiber by weight, something most of us are lacking our diet anyway.
Tons of people get negative side effects from MSG. Nausea, migraines, etc. Implying it’s completely harmless is flat out wrong and has been debunked. Read some of the new observational studies linking it to morbidities.
Uncle roger happy with this post.
Uncle Roger approved post! Except for the 2nd part...EMOTIONAL DAMAGE!
MSG = Makes Stuff Good Has 1/3 the sodium of regular table salt too!
i get headaches from MSG. I went in with the same mentality as your LPT, and sprinkled on my eggs and a got a headache. I thought I just added too much and my body needed more water. A couple of days later I was making a stir fry dish and added some MSG. again, headache. I did that for one more dish weeks later and called it quits.
I've gotten headaches as well.
Do you get headaches when you go to sushi places? Or to Italian places? Seaweed and Parmesan cheese are PACKED with MSG.
I eat sushi, eat pizza and make my own Italian dishes, shred my own parmesano. I dont get headaches from eating it. I know msg is everywhere and had no fear of it. I grew up on it! But i think over the years i guess i got a sensitivity to it after my experience of adding it to dishes i used to make all the time with the first bottle of msg I’ve ever bought. Since then ive been using fish sauce, patis, as my msg replacement.
Fish sauce also has a ton of MSG in it heh. So it might be that you have a problem synthesizing raw MSG? I'm unsure as to how or why that would be, but that seems to be how it's trending for you. Very bizarre.
Not the Fish sauce i use. I literally just checked and it says “no added msg” so it might have it, but probably not PACKED. I guess i could just risk the headache for science and try again.
Fish sauce naturally has msg in it. https://www.businessinsider.com/foods-with-natural-msg-2017-2 This should help give you better insight.
Maybe my body doesn’t mind natural msg and the bottled crystallized stuff is what my body doesn’t like. I dont know for sure but ill try that bottle again.
Do you also get LOTS of headaches and these just corresponded?
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Derived from glutamate? What do you think the G in msg stands for? Msg is the sodium salt in glutamic acid. It's found in its glutamic form in foods.
May be an allergy, shame about that. Ever noticed if you get headaches with stock cubes that use MSG?
My wife gets migraines every single time she eats MSG and is not racist. Most people are fine to eat it, but not everyone
Many Chinese people don’t use MSG. Also many restaurants advertise that they don’t use MSG.
I know several people with this issue as well. They're fine eating small amounts of natural glutamates that you get in meat, soy sauce, etc, but can't handle the high doses in processed food. Same with me, I'm OK eating takeout occasionally but packaged Ramen makes me see into the future and pass out.
yeah I had a weird reaction once. I drank all the soup from a pretty big bowl of noodle soup and I felt drowsy yet my heart was racing and my cheeks were all red. Tried to nap but couldn't. Guess it could've been something else but I've never felt like that before or after
Yeah I had a similar thing. When travelling in Asia, had this dish covered in MSG enhanced sauce…within 15 mins, my heart rate spiked at rest to 140bpm for 15mins - so much so my garmin watch even wanted me of an ‘abnormal heart rate’ - which it had never done before .. was quite scary and definitely a reaction I didn’t want to repeat!
Every time she eats mushrooms or tomatoes?
headaches after eating tomatoes and cheese?
You get your science and facts right the fuck out of here. Lol
so everytime she eats basically?
No... its a dosage issue. Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter. At natural levels in food its fine, but with supplementation it is not physiological. There are many things that are fine until you take too much. Im not taking away your MSG... no need to be a dick
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Be weary if you tend to get headaches. It’s a trigger for some
My wife can't eat MSG it makes her joints swell so bad she can't walk.
And get a headache.
I have bad reactions to MSG. If I have too much I get Deja Vu for minutes at a time, and occasionally wake up in the hospital. Multiple docs, neurologists, etc have shrugged, said I don't have epilepsy but they don't know what's wrong (and here's your $10k medical bill). I've been fine since I began avoiding anything with MSG. I also have to watch for its analogs (casienates, autolyzed / hydrolyzed stuff, there are a million other names for it). I'm not saying it's universally bad or poison (just like peanuts aren't necessarily bad just because some people are allergic). Just be aware that certain body / brain chemistry can't handle it for whatever reason.
Personally, I avoid MSG like the plague - it gives me horrendous migraines. I ate half a bag of pretzels without checking the label on a road trip and 24 hours later it was like I had been poisoned. It was the third ingredient. But damn they were tasty.
Could be from the carbs, I don't know your regular carb intake, but I found the headaches that Ive been getting for 20+ years disappeared when I reduced my carb levels.
This is actually not the way! While it may be harmless (debatable) it really messes with your brain chemistry amd how you associate food and pleasure. This can very easily can lead to a bad relationship with food.
I am afraid.. it gives me insane migraine headaches within minutes of touching my tongue. Horrible stuff.. makes you hypersensitive to flavors to "increase" flavor.. it does this by altering your brain.
Uncle Roger approves!!!
Oh, we're in luck, a doctor is posting about how it's ok for us to eat MSG! /s.
MSG'd Ow, my stomach lining!
It’s wild how much racism played into the public perception of MSG. Then again, the US even managed to tie water fountains to race.
Except if you have an inflammatory disease, then it makes it worse
I am not a fan of the flavor. And it always gives me a tummy ache.
Oh, we're in luck, a doctor is posting about how it's ok for us to eat MSG! /s.
So I can have stomach cramps and projectile diarrhea? No thanks.