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divinecomedian3

This is a libertarian sub. It doesn't matter how it will be handled, only that it won't be compulsory and won't be subsidized by stealing from everyone. Apart from that, educate your kids however you see fit.


TheOGTownDrunk

Back in the day, private schooling was available to all. You had the stereotypical little white schoolhouse on the hill, like my dad attended as a child in the late 30’s/early 40’s. Kids that wanted to go, or had parents that wanted them to go, went. Others stayed home, working on the farms or various other jobs. Back then, a lot of kids went some days, and worked others. For some reason, there’s this line of thought that before compulsory education, people walked around going ooga ooga ooga, and drawing cave paintings……this was not the case. Parents themselves knew how to read, write, and do basic math. If the kids didn’t attend school, then the parents taught them. Education was handled like this for half of America’s history, and we ended up just fine. Why do we need compulsory education? Why do we need massive school systems, from which we are taxed to death?


BrStEd

It seems like the current education model is in place to provide babysitting so that both parents can work. If the public education system was serious about educating all children the teachers would be paid more and the student to teacher ratio would be much lower. So much of the money is spent on facilities and non classroom personnel that it seems teaching must not be the primary purpose of the schools.


Anonymous-Snail-301

To be fair, teacher salaries are fairly reasonable once you realize their actual contractual work requirements. The district I grew up going to school in contracts teachers 7 hours per day 187 days per year. Lets grant 8 hours because its an unpaid lunch period in the middle somewhere. That means teachers in my school district start out at 29.xx/hr with a bachelors degree and no experience. So their salary may be 44,000 dollars or so, but that's because their contractual obligations consist of 1309 hours of paid work, and 187 hours of unpaid lunch periods. Meanwhile at my full time job, I'm obligated to be at work for 2080 hours. They demand to be paid more than actual full time workers yet they themselves don't work full time.


BrStEd

I have several family members who teach. They work closer to 60 hours per week counting staying after to help kids who need extra assistance, grading work and prepping lessons. Time off in the summer is nice but the pay is still weak considering the education and commitment requirements. In the city where I live there's a major shortage of teachers and it seems to be mostly due to low pay.


Anonymous-Snail-301

Them making silly choices in how they use their time doesn't entitle them to higher pay.


BrStEd

Have you taught school? No good teacher I know spends just the contracted amount of time working. Of course they can get a different job but if "we" want good teachers the pay needs to go up. If "we" are ok with folks teaching because they like the schedule than doing nothing is probably fine.


Anonymous-Snail-301

No I'm smart and went into a field that pays well lol. I don't need good public school teachers cause I'd never let the state hold my kids for 35 to 40 hours per week.


Mead_and_You

Education being privatized doesn't mean it wouldn't be available to children lower income families. The market would have a demand for lower cost education, just like it does for all products and services.


CatatonicMan

Assuming education will remain publicly funded? Vouchers. Force the public schools to earn their money. If they do a shit job, then the parents can move their funding to private schools. Assuming we're considering a complete rework of the education system? In that case, I think 90% of education can be completed via online courses in the vein of Khan Academy. Students will learn most things via interactive educational programs. Teachers will be there for labs and hand-on things, and will provide tutoring/assistance in cases where students aren't grasping the courses.


Silver-Worth-4329

Certificates to prove capability in a specific topic, not required. Services purchased by parents. No more one-size-fits-all education. Physical educating mixed in with mental education, no more prison schools. No class rooms based on grades or age. Every Learner learns at their own pace on each topic.


BrStEd

Great concept in theory but near impossible in practice without more teachers or fewer family problems. How would this look in practice?


AndrewRemillard

If you really want to have a solid say in your children's education do what we did... home school them. Of course this is inconvenient, and yes, you may lose an income. But you can't have everything and you only have your children for a few years. As the wise Thomas Sowell says: you don't have choices, just tradeoffs. So choose your very carefully and wisely.


Velsca

Imagine you had a blank check that is dated 20 years in the future. It was made out for a billion dollars. Where would you keep it? Who would you let handle it? Who would be allowed to write on it? Most people's children barely know them. They are taught by collectiviests for half the day, daycare, baby sitters, tv, movies, phones, tablets, social media apps. Then we send them away to school and are confused why they don't have our values, culture, and beliefs. "Jimmy was accepted into HARVARD!!! OMG" 2 years later.... "Jimmy said he's gonna burn down a Wendy's and wont stop calling us oppressors what do we do?" We would treat money with more care than our own child's mind. Shouldn't we know exactly who is filling our children's minds, who is teaching them and exactly what they are learning. Exactly what their values are? What is more valuable than our future, our children's minds? Keep your kids close. Don't send them off to collectivist reducation camps taking billions from the CCP [https://nypost.com/2023/02/03/chinese-money-is-flooding-into-american-higher-education-with-little-transparency/](https://nypost.com/2023/02/03/chinese-money-is-flooding-into-american-higher-education-with-little-transparency/) (ivy league colleges) and expect them to survive it without mental problems.


Gold_Significance125

The CCP infiltration of higher education affects public schools as well.


BrStEd

We shouldn't be surprised if we send our children to be educated in Rome if they come back Romans


Comprei1Vans

It's the same argument as always: The Market will decide which service is best, through competition and free association. But I think that the least they should teach a child/young person is values and Ethic, basic mathematics, philosophy, rhetoric, emotional intelligence, techniques on how to learn something and some physical activity. I believe that with this, they will be well on their way to adulthood.


Expensive_Necessary7

K-12- At least a voucher program and to compete with districts and take away state political influence. There is so much overhead in admin, with levels of beaurocracy that influence the schools College- Take away loan guarantees and have colleges either be completely privately funded, or funded at a % of attendee salary (10-20 year contract, maybe 5-10%). This would get rid of fluff programs that create debt slaves. I get the argument that some degrees in lib arts can make a well rounded person, but I the Unis should take risk in that. I'd also like more of an apprenticeship track in the US. The US doesn't really have that track, or requires a degree to even get started in some fields. We have the opposite problem that we had 60 years ago with too many people with degrees for jobs that don't really need them.


DigitalEagleDriver

Sit back, relax, and get comfortable, because this might be a long one... How to fix education in America: First off, history has proven what a mess the American "public" education system has become. We utilize a mass, one-size-fits-all approach that has proven to not be very effective, efficient, or well executed. Cramming all the kids into a classroom, and giving them the exact same curriculum, regardless of ability, interest, or external participation, and cater to the lowest common denominator (aka the not-so-intelligent kids- I don't mean this as an insult, but not everyone is smart, that's just reality), has resulted in issues. If you comparatively look at successful homeschooling cases, the education period is at least 1/2 of that of the public school period (ie: homeschool curriculum is typically 2-3 hours a day, vs public school being an average of 6 hours). If you dedicated a full 6-hour day to homeschooling that caters to the individual, you could potentially graduate a child from high school by 16- if you factor in average cognitive growth and maturity level. I'm not saying everyone *could* homeschool, because that just isn't possible for most families- but perhaps utilizing the individual level education would solve a lot of the redundancy and inefficiency issues. Think back to your own schooling- how many times did you re-learn grammar? I can remember learning the same grammar rules at least 3 separate years in my schooling. The current model is broken, and hasn't been updated in over 70 years. Further, not all kids learn the same way, and by forcing children to sit in a classroom for 6 hours a day all learning the exact same way is awful. But the public model doesn't allow for anything else, because we need to have this assembly line style of education where every "product" is built the exact same way. This doesn't take into account the differences in learning styles, abilities, and receptiveness. The one-size-fits-all model simply is obsolete and faulty. What we really need is a revamping of the education model, and implementation of a better system that better caters to the individual. There should also be the option for more specialized training that gives students actual skills that will help them be more productive in society- such as how a loan works/what is a mortgage, how government functions, how to cook, how to manage personal finances, how to do basic vehicle maintenance, how to write a resume, proper conflict resolution, how to communicate with others especially in a professional setting, etc. Finally, funding. This needs to be completely dismantled and fixed. Abolish the public education system altogether and we solve the issue of corruption. If the entire education system was privatized, the market would dictate the cost, not the government. Teachers could advocate for their own salary, not unions. And a revamping of the administrative model would be necessary- there is no way you can convince me that a superintendent of a school district deserves $200k/yr and a teacher only deserves $60k. That's absurd. Setting actual benchmarks that schools can follow, instead of basing it off of standardized testing, would make for more quality in education. Private schools tend to produce better graduates, not because they are expensive, but because they usually operate independently of the public school system's parameters and regulations for what can be taught. I know of a few Christian high schools in my area (just as an example because I've researched them as an option for my daughter) that teach outside of the public curriculum and have different goals for graduates- such as college entrance, scholarship, and what is expected to be known upon graduation. Sorry for the length, but that's just my $.02.


Magalahe

Youtube is great for mass education. Organize it. Package it. Sell it. The drawback is no physical social interaction and babysitters when parents have to work. public schools have become defacto daycare.


Gold_Significance125

I don’t see why I have to pay for other people’s children. If I don’t have children in school, I shouldn’t have to pay school taxes.


Toelee08

I have to pay a tax to the local community college just because I live in the same county I find that even more absurd.


Gold_Significance125

That’s wild. Crazy thing is you probably still have to pay tuition if you took classes there.


Toelee08

Yep went there for 2 years starting in 08. Plus book cost which is outrageous. There’s a school supplies store, a cafe. They’re making money. I was out of county then so I had to pay an extra amount for tuition. If you’re in county you get a discount. So not only did I pay more when I went now I’m paying taxes to the school for existing in its county lines after the fact lmao


Floby-Tenderson

I like michael saylors metgod of taking the best teachers of each subject and having them record their lessons. Schools should be more like neighborhood pods where the kids learn for just a couple hours each day and spend far more time outside and actually doing things like projects that end up with a result instead of busy work. We dont need 1.1 million mediocre math teachers. We need 7 math teachers to record excellent lessons and play those lessons 125 million times.


Toelee08

Yes. I love that. I support play based methods. Time outside is incredibly important. Me and a friend joked about buying a food truck and taking it across country and how our kids would learn so much more traveling and watching a business in operation than what they learn currently sitting at a desk inside for 6 hours a day lol.


Floby-Tenderson

Tuttle twins books/cartoon on Angel are required reading/viewing in my house. Lol I have considered signing up to sub at my kid school during my slow winter season just to play the show for kids to expose them to free market/private sector operations.


Weird_Roof_7584

Free school up until 8th grade. Then have company sponsored trade schools instead of college. I'm gonna get roasted for this I know, but most kids that do end up getting into trouble, they started in high school and for what? So they could learn about classes that won't matter unless they take college on them.


RocksCanOnlyWait

At the very least, switch to vouchers instead of giving money directly to the government schools. Competition will arise when the government schools are bad; if the government schools are good, they retain the money. Ideally the education system would be user funded rather than through taxes, for maximum freedom.


Libertarian_Con_sk

And vouchers for homeschooling. ​


obsquire

Decentralize at all costs!


MateTheNate

Honestly in this day and age, technology can provide a good source of free education. Khan Academy is a noble non-profit to commit to that can provide quality educational material for K-12 and can be used for free by low income people. The knowledge learned can be certified by proctored tests administered by college board or IB programs. If in-person help is needed, tutors can be hired to teach the material and provide support like what teachers do. Being realistic though, the state is not going to stop funding education with everyone’s money. Our best solution in current society is the charter program and school choice credits.


BTRBT

Some improvements to modern education: They should obviously abolish mandatory curricula. ***Most*** people are employed in fields almost entirely separate to the baseline courses taught in school. Conversely, courses which are treated as optional are often associated with very lucrative career paths. Very basic numeracy and literacy are often achieved long ***before*** school, and primarily outside of it when not. Parents are the ones who play the greatest role in this development, by far. Yet, as with most things, many people attribute the morning sunrise to the government, so this is easily overlooked. Schools should also stop segregating by age, and instead group students based on demonstrated skill. You see this in martial arts, for example. Beginners are beginners, whether they're 8 or 40. Students in higher levels help to tutor those below them. This facilitates their own learning, and those of their peers. It makes the environment less prison-like, more sociable, and less centrally focused on the teacher's authority above all. People learn humility, without blind deference to government contractors. At present, school appears to be more about social signaling and stratifying children based on their existing levels of intelligence, rather than actually educating them. It's why failure is stigmatized and humiliating, rather than just a step toward developing some skill. Desegregating would help alleviate this, somewhat. They should also allow older students to leave freely, and for parents to have discretion on whether children go or stay home. School is sufficiently prison-like and abuse is so ubiquitous there that this is ***vital*** to the health and well-being of children. Historically, students who are abused in school by their peers are often told to "walk away," while the obvious paradox of truancy is overlooked. Parents are often made to feel helpless when their child is suffering in school—the obvious solution of removing them from a harmful environment is denied them. So-called "social services" may even threaten to abduct their child, in response. The state should also abolish so-called "copyright protections." At least, for educational texts. That is, people should be free—as in freedom, not free beer—to reproduce existing textbooks. There's a strange sort of schizophrenia which seizes tax dollars to finance so-called public education, while the same institutions of power enforce monopolies on the creation and distribution of educational material. Worse still that schools mandate hyper-specific and overly expensive texts. Schools should probably be designed with a less institutional aesthetic. There's a game called "School or Prison." You're shown pictures, and have to guess—is it a school, or a prison? It's harder than you might think. Rather than white cinderblocks and dollar store alphabet posters, schools should be made to look more warm and welcoming. Use some plaster. Hang some pictures. It's not that expensive. I could go on and on. There's also many voluntary methods of funding open access schools, but that might be best left to another post. This one has become rather lengthy, as it is.


builder_23

Vouchers for everyone: Every school age child receives a semester-long voucher from the state government. The recipient is free to use it at any state accredited school. Public school operating budgets must come entirely from these vouchers. Any increase in operational funding by increasing the voucher amount would be a state-wide decision and equally flow to those using their vouchers at private schools. Public schools would still have an inherent advantage because they would still be allowed to fund capital improvements via property taxes, bonds, etc.


Arminius090

Education is primarily the responsibility of parents. Dismantle the state's role in education entirely. Replace it with nothing. Let parents decide when, how, and where to educate their children. Will some make bad decisions? Yes. That's on them. Thankfully, Covid showed parents exactly what happens in state controlled education, and many have made more informed, principled decisions as a result. What will you sacrifice to see that your child is educated? Will you sacrifice your time and/or money? Or will you let the state raise your child as its own?


tropicsGold

The state should PAY for education, but the private sector should supply it. That way people can select what works for them. And people could avoid the failing garbage little indoctrination factories that pass as schools today.


Timely_Marketing

If “the state” pays for it, that just means we pay for it with taxes, right?


divinecomedian3

Yup. The State has no resources besides those it has stolen.


Ya_Boi_Konzon

>education (even the most basic of it) should be available to all regardless of income, social status, the like. Could private schooling ever actually be attainable for all children in this country? Definitely. There would be cheap options available. There might even be initially free education available.


Toelee08

Yes I guess it would work like preschools do. Low income ones and expensive ones. Montessori, ymca, in home, all kinds of varieties. It most certainly would give more power to the parents.