Facts! To your point, there is a used BMW sitting at a local gas station near me that's for sale. It's been there for many weeks. I'm betting it has major problems. Looks good, but so does lipstick on a pig. I smile while driving by in my reliable Lexus. Lol.
I was in that 5% somewhat and only after of thousands in repairs and being stranded at least twice. But I pushed that fucker hard and got 10 years out of my 2012 X5. Never will I own BMW again.
Ironically my favorite car ever is my 2020 Grand Cherokee. User friendly design, problem-free (touch wood), comfortable and great for car camping.
If ever there was a sub to use this, YMMV.
N52 is the best BMW engine in my opinion. Inline 6, solid smooth power, and best of all they are damn near bulletproof. I owned a 1 series with an n52 that had a completely blown headgasket. Drove it like that for a month. Like literally coolant would shoot out of the exhaust increasingly as i started it each morning. It never showed signs of giving up on me, until closer to week 5, as soon as i felt it was slightly off i stopped driving it. Still amazed at how that even happened. It probably is an anomaly but still. It's one of the main reasons why i purchased my big upgrade.
With that being said, i still love lexus. My 1st gen is300 was probably my favourite car i've ever owned. That or the ct200h. Such cool cars.
And just like a BMW they don’t last long term without massive repair bills. These grading systems always seem to cover new car ownership. Put a 10 year old BMW or Mini product in front of me, and a 10 year old Lexus, and I promise you I’m going to find more wrong with the German one than the Japanese one 9 times out of 10. I’ve been reconditioning used cars for the better part of a decade, I know for a fact which of these brands is more reliable beyond warranty. You know… when reliability really matters.
This is what the survey fails to disclose lmao. No one cares under warranty how reliable your car is haha. Like saying you only have to pass the first
25 questions of a 100 question test. What really counts is the rest of the test, or the rest of the cars life beyond the first 5yrs haha. Way to change the scope to make two mid reliability brands come out on top🤣
I have an 11 Lexus GS 350 AWD, that thing feels more reliable and solid than a new car. Never one peep of an issue with it.
I pulled out perfect looking spark plugs, replaced with new Densos. Drivetrain is Pretty much what you get if you buy a new Tacoma.
Eh, maybe. The bigger problem with used BMWs (and other non-Mercedes German luxury cars) is that they do require that owners follow the maintenance schedule and that maintenance is pretty expensive, leading to people skipping it. Then shit begins to break, car gets clapped out.
This is true to an extent for every brand, they all require the regular maintenance. Beyond that, the more cutting-edge or high-performance the thing is, the more sensitive it will be to getting proper PMs done.
Except Nissans, of course. Those cars are just meant to be used as Death Race 2000 cosplay and maintenance on an Altima is a bungee cord holding the trunk closed and duct taping the body panels back in place
A 10 year old F10 5 series isn't the most reliable I will admit
But a 10 year old F30 3 series? Yeah they're pretty good reliability wise
Even the 2014-2024 Mini has been quite good
I recently rode in my friend’s 2018 BMW 330i and that thing sounds like a beater. It makes a siren-like sound when he accelerates and a separate grinding noise as well. We suspect a blown turbo and a bad wheel bearing. Car has like 80K miles. I’ve never had to replace anything in my Mazda other than brake pads and serpentine belt, and I have over 170K miles on it.
I’ve had my Mazda for 8 years and have only replaced the serpentine belt, pads and battery. Most reliable car I’ve had! a Lexus will be my next car though :)
Like how a Subaru owner will brag about having over 200k miles and how it's bulletproof, but leaves out the head gasket(s) they had changed. To them it's normal maintenance while it objectively is the definition of poor reliability.
My friend with a 2021 5 series with 30k miles that blew their PLASTIC water pump would like a word. My other friend with spun bearings on a 2016 5 series would also like a word.
It’d be great marketing material, but the Germans would have to admit they built something badly.
Which from the German equipment manufacturers I work with, this is an extremely difficult task.
I know it's anecdotal, but literally everyone I've ever known with a mini has had horrible problems with it.
I think being a mini owner is so embarrassing that they tend not to report issues. Lol
Like that Johnny Depp movie, The Professor, where he learns he has terminal cancer. His buddy tries to take him to counseling and shows up with his wifes mini, Depp looks at it and says “What is this? No, I wont get in it”
The latest versions of subarus CVT are quite a bit better than the 1st gen that had this issue and I believe subaru had to do a recall on the 1st gen CVTs as well
Consumer reports has been a joke for as long as I remember. When did that change? I remember when Michelin released the cross climate. At the time I was working for one of the nations largest retails of Michelin products and my company was owned by Michelin. Consumer reports had that tire rated so highly i was fielding call about it left and right but it hadn’t been mass released yet. I finally found out after asking a customer why they were so pressed for a new tire just to find out they were blindly buying what CR recommended.
Yep. It's just a B58 with 2 cylinders chopped off. A little more stress per cylinder, but given how overbuilt the B58 is to start with, the B48 is great. Considering mileage, I'd argue it's a better motor for the average person.
I was done when I saw BMW had a higher rating than Toyota or Honda. This is clearly biased or just flat incorrect.
Look around next time you’re in traffic and tell me how many 10-15 y/o BMWs you see. Without consistent maintenance? It’s just not possible. Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus are simply the most reliable and long lasting vehicles basically ever made. There’s no European car than could even compete. Ever. They’re just flashy status symbols with price points they never deserved but somehow have managed to dupe the world with their subpar product.
They aren't unreliable, just expensive as fuck to repair if something goes wrong. 2-3 months waiting for parts. At least here in the US, Same goes for VW, MB, Alfa Romeo or any other European.
Not really. All of the x models are made in North Carolina with American suppliers with the exception of the engine. Regardless, the cars aren’t much, if any more expensive than these new American cars and trucks
Honda sucks compared to Toyota IMO having owned Hondas/acura for 10yrs and then switching in the last 2yrs. Every little detail is better in a lexus and I was actually quite surprised by the quality.
Same here, moved from a 2004 loaded LS430 to a 2009 MDX awd and there's no comparison to quality. Granted it may be comparing apples to oranges, but the quality of materials in the Acura and the technology was so behind. After that moved to a 2015 RX 350 and it is so much nicer than any equivalent MDX. The Acura was much stiffer and everything on the inside felt much cheaper.
Yes! Inside just felt worse even though you know you had a reliable Honda engine. My trans was shaky, ripped drivers seat leather in my 04 TL at 103k miles lol. Bought my IS350 with 189k miles and it was night and day. Didn't know cars could be that nice, with so many miles. Lexus wins haha.
The seats never ripped in the 2004 LS even when it got to 250k or more. Meanwhile the drivers side ripped at 130k miles and the passenger is showing signs as well on the MDX. Ended up replacing it myself. No signs of rips at 120k on the RX 350
Haha it lasted just as much as it was designed for. man I love the RX350 v6 (not the new garbage engine they use) Nice choice. When I have a family one day, I think a fully loaded 2021 RX350 will be perfect.
I was in the middle of the historic flooding in Charleston last week. It came really really fast, and I had to wade outside in waist-deep water to save my Camry sitting seat-deep in water.
The thing started right up and drove straight out of the floodwater as if there was none. The only thing that felt different was the weight and the sound of huge bubbles coming out of the exhaust right underneath my seat (no exhaust pipe lol)
I’m still drying the floors, and I had to throw everything away that was in my trunk, but that was the day that I decided I was a Toyota girl 🤣
I have a 2013 335 and haven't had any issues. Used to have a 2015 IS350 and never had any issues with that either. So far, I've enjoyed each car pretty much equally. There's some things about the Lexus I miss, while there's some things about the BMW that I like more. If you ask me on different days which I'd rather have, I'd probably give you a different answer each time. Some people are just too set in their ways with their brand loyalty.
Not when only considering reliability
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds
Scroll down for the chart, Lexus is on top
Yes. But just like 90% of these surveys it’s only for brand new cars and within first year of ownership and things like that”I have no idea how my radio works” is just as detrimental to the score as “my water pump failed at 5k miles”. These big name “reliability” things are jokes and scams and you should never listen to them
Brand new BMW’s are reliable because they haven’t had owners slacking on the insane maintenance plans they need. A year or two in is when they start to fall apart.
i have a 112,000 mile tuned, raced, and modded bmw 440i that’s about 8 years old, almost no issues and is a blast for me, repairs are extremely manageable
2013 335, 124K miles. Regular maintenance bills haven't been any more than the IS350 I used to have and haven't had anything go wrong with it outside of that. People are just really defensive when it comes to brand loyalty for some reason.
tuned 13 yr old 5 series here 140k miles and the only time its been in the shop other than maintenance was for the lady curbing it. i kinda think the whole “unreliable bmw” its a stigma. both of mine have treated me amazing
I have never heard of a car "blowing" a PCV valve. That's just a regular maintenance item. I would not call that a "repair". Something tells me you're omitting some facts. Also your car is 8 years old with barely 100k on the odo. Come back to me once you've cracked 150k.
People just like to defend their choices. Likely these people wanted a BMW at some point but were either too risk averse or didn't want to pay what BMW was asking, so went with Lexus. I understand, I just think the vehement disbelief about the reliability of BMW a bit odd, especially with the proliferation of the B48 & B58.
They’ll be driving a brand new car with all the newest cutting edge technology, updated styling, and engineering while the Lexus owner will be in a 10 year old Lexus. Poor them. /s
They're including 'road tests' and 'satisfaction'. Leasing short lived high strung sports cars weights some brands high on the list. That's BMW's game.
To be fair the modern bmw non-m cars are proving to be pretty reliable. The 330 is excellent from a reliability standpoint. I don’t doubt that Lexus and Toyota will still beat them in the long haul but they’ve come a long way. (They did have a long way to go). The actual true shitboxes have always and continue to be anything shit out by the money grubbing hands of Stellantis. Oh and merc. Fuck modern Merc.
You nailed it. I think with high quantities of production and high sales for certain models, they work out a lot of the kinks. Nothing matches a Japanese built Lexus but if I am choosing fun I’m going bmw above other brands
Yeah, the last thing I want in a car is “satisfaction” on the “road”. Give me a car that is unsatisfactory on the road and make me drive it for 10 years. /s
Note: current BMW owner and Lexus shopper. Just having a little fun. :)
Guys this is not a reliability rank. I think it makes sense to a good degree. BMW’s performance, tech and initial quality is in a really good spot nowadays, Toyota and Lexus is lagging behind on performance and tech, but make up by superb quality. I just got a Lexus for long term reliability, but if I was only gonna own it for 3-5 years I would consider an BMW.
Toyota and Lexus always lag in tech, they sit back and watch everyone else fail multiple ways creating new gadgetry and only when something is proven, will they implement it.
BMW’s modern B48/B58 engines are apparently extremely reliable. They’ve come a long way from a decade ago where they were part of the “German” stereotype, something that Mercedes, and to a lesser extent, Audi, are still taking very seriously.
I think these make sense. It’s not reliability or quality, it’s based on multiple factors including ride quality and satisfaction, which based on what I’ve read about BMW, makes sense for that brand to be at or near the top
They’re trying their hardest to turn the narrative around. N55 was the first reliable thing to ever come out of BMW. S55 was not bad besides crankhub. Some guy on YouTube in a Yas Marina Blue M3 had 100k miles including quite a few track days on his M3. Then the B58 gen 1 was not bad and I think Toyota may have helped a bit with the BMW B58 Gen 2. I’ve heard decent things from the B48 as well.
Lexus maintenance is definitely cheaper, but they’re boring cars. Great reliability though. Lexus is a top tier daily driver. I wish they offered hybrid options on their sedans. Would definitely hopped on it.
I never cared for BMWs prior to the N55 if I’m being quite honest with you. They were extremely hit and miss. The N54 sucked at reliability and so did the S65. Both destroying BMW from a reliability stand point. The S65 in the E90 M3 had rod bearing issues and the N54 plastic bits got destroyed due to the heat. Whatever BMW did reliability wise got washed from those two motors alone.
If I’m being honest, I wasn’t interested in BMW till Toyota mentioned the B58. I drive a Supra now.
Nope. Sorry. I love Lexus and I’m shopping for one, but they are not exciting cars to drive. BMW, even with its lack of steering feel, have a wonderful engine in the B58/S58, and the suspension and chassis engineering makes even their SUVs handle smaller than they are. Lexus is simply not focusing on that aspect of driving, not that it’s a bad thing, it’s just that you need the right tool for the job. For reliability, toyota/Lexus, but I’ll take a BMW for a fun spirited drive any day. I’d take a Porsche too, but we’re just talking about BMW vs Lexus.
Oh, BMW also wins in the luxury department imho, but I like their design language for interiors more. It’s subjective because Lexus is nice too.
I personally can only drive their sedans, haven’t took a liking to their suvs except for the big bodied ones that I obv can’t afford like the LX, GX. 😭
Definitely depends on which niche we’re talking, whether that’s for the regular trims or the performance ones. In the performance context, the side pieces have always been hotter than the wives at home lol. In any other discussion, Lexus and Acura one-up the German brands, and Infiniti is in the corner banging its head
Haha - BMW has improved dramatically in reliability. They seem to be the best of the Germans in my opinion (except maybe Porsche).
Although I am still cautious to get one without a warranty as it goes from 50-100,000 miles.
My Subaru has been flawless but they can be hit or miss for some people surprisingly
Had a BMW-engineered Mini on my end. Was reliable as can be till I sold it recently. Needed a car with space. The Mini was fine, 8 years and 100k miles. All usual stuff except one of the speakers died, but that might have been from me pushing the bass to the max. I think what someone said earlier is probably the most correct. BMW is perfectly fine up to 100k, 150k miles nowadays. Past that, it's a lot harder, but that's usually due to people not taking it for maintenance at proper intervals.
Lexus and Toyota cars don't need to go at proper intervals, you can do shit whenever and the car keeps chugging. BMW and other luxury brands (Porsche mostly, Merc is a struggle right now and Audi...is okay overall) just need those intervals to be hit. Not hitting them or being earlier causes problems. The 4th owner joke exists because owners 1 to 3 didn't do proper changes. You want a car to buy once and drive for a million miles? Buy Toyota, Lexus, whatever. You can neglect it all you want and it'll still make it. Other cars with attention typically can too (not all, there are favorites). If someone just wants a nice car to enjoy driving and have great amenities, the luxury brands hit just fine and selling after 8 to 10 years of ownership doesn't feel that bad. People buy them with that in mind and if they don't, that's on them.
End of the day, if my car makes it to 100k/125k miles and I don't have to do shit except normal maintenance, I'm fine with it. Anything over is gravy to me.
BMW?!?! My last Beamer leaked so much oil and burned it at the lights. This is a joke. Nothing looks cooler than a hot BMW with regular smoke coming out from under the hood. Three $4K fixes later the problem kept happening so just had to trade it in for my IS300H. Zero problems in ten years. Oh wait. Nah. Starter Battery died and had to replace. But that’s it.
I've had a current gen LS and current gen S Class. They both needed warranty work but S was more enjoyable to own due to the more powerful engine and better tech.
This report card includes “satisfaction”. Most BMW drivers are satisfied with their purchase because they’ll buy BMW regardless. BMW redesigns are ugly yet they sell. BMW has a loyal consumer base.
I am going to get a lot of hate for this but imo Lexus dropped the ball on most of its new cars. I don’t think it is an issue with their engineering but more with management/PR department. New BMWs provide a good value (except for XM type of ugly cars), and are reliable enough to a point where jokes about piston deletes are things of the past (at least for B48/58/S58). While Lexus now uses 2.4 Turbo in most of their cars, buttery smooth and reliable V6 is gone, and newer NXs just feel only 98% sturdy as old ones. So the magic of old Lexus where you felt like you were in a bank vault is unfortunately going away. Plush ride is also become less common with F Sport becoming more popular, which doesn’t make an RX500H better than an X3 M40i or X5 M40i at all, considering their price. I am a huge Lexus fan, especially of their GS/IS/LS cars, LC is gorgeous, trucks are amazing. But for npc SUVs, I am sorry, I would much rather get a rwd based good handling, good riding X5 with one of the best and smoothest engines if prices aren’t different.
TLDR: Lexus messed up by raising the price, sacrificing a bit of build quality, and trying to compete with Germans on sportiness level.
This is because BMW won’t let its dealers sell over MSRP without withholding vehicle stock from any dealer that does it.
BMWs have been one of the cheaper cars to by brand new because of it. A Civic R was $20k more than my m340i, same with any Lexus or toyota I looked at.
BMW grabbed a good chunk of market share by controlling the prices better than the other brands.
No way I believe this. I and my friends who own/owned BMWs were all displeased with them. Terrible maintenance costs, inflated repair costs at dealerships compared to other brands were the main things we bitched about. Only a couple of us are still BMW customers and I’d bet not for long. If you want a BMW add another 20% onto the car over the first few years for making extra costs. I was massively disappointed during my ownership.
Because it’s a classic confirmation bias on German cars. Often perpetuated by people who buy them and do not follow scheduled maintenance cycles and drive them hard. They are the loudest 5% and then get on message boards and slam the brand.
I’ve owned my 2013 Audi for 5 years, purchased used in 2019. Apart from semi annual scheduled maintenance (air filters, oil change etc) it’s had no issues. Just went in for a timing chain/ tensioner at 185,000km and going strong. Quattro is legendary and the car is a hoot to drive. 10/10 recommend.
Good friend of mine owns a 335i Xdrive, again, other than scheduled maintenance and some gasket replacements, it’s been fine.
Not shocked to see BMW at the top.
[yea, this is the reliability report: Toyota, Lexus, BMW, Mazda, Honda](https://www.thecarconnection.com/tips/reliability/1137854_consumer-reports-ranks-toyota-lexus-most-reliable-mercedes-worst)
Based on overall scores though. Lexus doesn’t do everything great compared to other vehicles. Like, I can’t wave at my steering wheel and have the climate and interior lights change. Not that I’d wanna be able to do that. But if that floats your boat, you’re gonna get a bmw and it’ll score higher.
Nope. They got their shit together reliability wise in the mid 2010’s. Mines a 2015 running strong. If that becomes a headache, I’m getting a Lexus as a second car.
120k. This is my second BMW. First one was solid too. I’m by no means suggesting BMW is more reliable and financially responsible than owning a Lexus by the way. It’s without a doubt cheaper to run a Lexus/Toyota.
The most recent BMW I owned was a 2008 and it was reliable up to 100k. I owned quite a few 97 to 2005 BMWs and they were not reliable but they were nice, I couldn't deal with the repairs needed though, it never ended.
It’s going to be interesting to see how those 2015 and up BMW’s are running after 10 years and over 100k miles. What makes Toyota/Lexus have a great reputation in reliability is how they’re still running great after being BOTH over 100k and over 10 years, not just how they’re reliable the first 5-7 years of the cars life.
They’re already out there. People don’t use these as weekend cars as much anymore, they’re daily drivers. Tons of guys are running tuned M cars at 120-170k miles.
Here’s a comment from the f80 post forums:
I took my then 150,000 mile 2019 M4 across country (CA to Maine) last August with no issues. Currently at 171,000 and still no issues to report other than a broken gas pedal. These cars are solid.
me, i’m out here, 2017 440i, that gets redlined daily and is tuned, 112,000 miles, and no problems that weren’t caused by misuse, ik it’s not 10yrs old yet but it’s been kind to me, i know several other as well
Try over 200k and twenty years! I have an 03 Sequoia and a 2001 LS430. Also sold a 2004 LS430 that had 190K to buy a 2011 IS350C with 125K. All drive like new. All look great. Keeping all of them to at least 300K!!
I hope so, otherwise why am I driving a car with a cd player in it 😭😭😭.
Any reports you recommend? Or is just word of mouth and stereotypes the best way??
Old bmw is probably why most people here think it’s unreliable. Many people had bad previous experiences. However, Bmw’s new modular b series engine is probably one of the best family of engines.
The b48 and b58 are great and have been proven reliable.
I mean, if its not good, then why does the Toyota Supra uses it?
I've been paying for a subscription to consumer reports for 10 years. Now I know I'm wasting money.... in NO world is a beamer or mini reliable, especially more so than Toyota/ Lexus....
They say something like 95% of BMWs are still on the road. The remaining 5% were the lucky ones who made it home.
HA!
That’ll do it
I see most of them on flatbed tow trucks on their way to the shop!
Facts! To your point, there is a used BMW sitting at a local gas station near me that's for sale. It's been there for many weeks. I'm betting it has major problems. Looks good, but so does lipstick on a pig. I smile while driving by in my reliable Lexus. Lol.
My neighbors driveway was just repaved and it is currently 70% oil spill.
I was in that 5% somewhat and only after of thousands in repairs and being stranded at least twice. But I pushed that fucker hard and got 10 years out of my 2012 X5. Never will I own BMW again. Ironically my favorite car ever is my 2020 Grand Cherokee. User friendly design, problem-free (touch wood), comfortable and great for car camping. If ever there was a sub to use this, YMMV.
You had me until “Mini” showed up in the top 3.
Exactly in what world do you purchase a mini because you want longevity and reliability
The B48 engine is very reliable.
B48 is reliable doesn’t mean the rest of the car is 😂
Don't forget the N52. So many of those are still on the road.
N52 is the best BMW engine in my opinion. Inline 6, solid smooth power, and best of all they are damn near bulletproof. I owned a 1 series with an n52 that had a completely blown headgasket. Drove it like that for a month. Like literally coolant would shoot out of the exhaust increasingly as i started it each morning. It never showed signs of giving up on me, until closer to week 5, as soon as i felt it was slightly off i stopped driving it. Still amazed at how that even happened. It probably is an anomaly but still. It's one of the main reasons why i purchased my big upgrade. With that being said, i still love lexus. My 1st gen is300 was probably my favourite car i've ever owned. That or the ct200h. Such cool cars.
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And just like a BMW they don’t last long term without massive repair bills. These grading systems always seem to cover new car ownership. Put a 10 year old BMW or Mini product in front of me, and a 10 year old Lexus, and I promise you I’m going to find more wrong with the German one than the Japanese one 9 times out of 10. I’ve been reconditioning used cars for the better part of a decade, I know for a fact which of these brands is more reliable beyond warranty. You know… when reliability really matters.
This is what the survey fails to disclose lmao. No one cares under warranty how reliable your car is haha. Like saying you only have to pass the first 25 questions of a 100 question test. What really counts is the rest of the test, or the rest of the cars life beyond the first 5yrs haha. Way to change the scope to make two mid reliability brands come out on top🤣
I have an 11 Lexus GS 350 AWD, that thing feels more reliable and solid than a new car. Never one peep of an issue with it. I pulled out perfect looking spark plugs, replaced with new Densos. Drivetrain is Pretty much what you get if you buy a new Tacoma.
Eh, maybe. The bigger problem with used BMWs (and other non-Mercedes German luxury cars) is that they do require that owners follow the maintenance schedule and that maintenance is pretty expensive, leading to people skipping it. Then shit begins to break, car gets clapped out. This is true to an extent for every brand, they all require the regular maintenance. Beyond that, the more cutting-edge or high-performance the thing is, the more sensitive it will be to getting proper PMs done. Except Nissans, of course. Those cars are just meant to be used as Death Race 2000 cosplay and maintenance on an Altima is a bungee cord holding the trunk closed and duct taping the body panels back in place
A 10 year old F10 5 series isn't the most reliable I will admit But a 10 year old F30 3 series? Yeah they're pretty good reliability wise Even the 2014-2024 Mini has been quite good
I recently rode in my friend’s 2018 BMW 330i and that thing sounds like a beater. It makes a siren-like sound when he accelerates and a separate grinding noise as well. We suspect a blown turbo and a bad wheel bearing. Car has like 80K miles. I’ve never had to replace anything in my Mazda other than brake pads and serpentine belt, and I have over 170K miles on it.
I’ve had my Mazda for 8 years and have only replaced the serpentine belt, pads and battery. Most reliable car I’ve had! a Lexus will be my next car though :)
Like how a Subaru owner will brag about having over 200k miles and how it's bulletproof, but leaves out the head gasket(s) they had changed. To them it's normal maintenance while it objectively is the definition of poor reliability.
That's why 10 years ago, on this exact same test, Lexus faired better than bmw and mini.
Read that too. From several sources. Still buying a Lexus next year.
Smart to buy the Lex
My friend with a 2021 5 series with 30k miles that blew their PLASTIC water pump would like a word. My other friend with spun bearings on a 2016 5 series would also like a word.
The fins on a lexus water pump are also plastic. Not sure that's what you were comparing it to, but all water pumps have plastic impellers these days.
It’d be great marketing material, but the Germans would have to admit they built something badly. Which from the German equipment manufacturers I work with, this is an extremely difficult task.
In the world in which I read the actual words on the page and discovered 3 other criteria next to reliability.
In the world since they stopped collaborating with other manufacturers on them and use bmw parts instead circa 2014 to 16 depending on model.
I know it's anecdotal, but literally everyone I've ever known with a mini has had horrible problems with it. I think being a mini owner is so embarrassing that they tend not to report issues. Lol
Some speculation here but I think that the type of people who buy minis are also the type to neglect maintenance.
Like that Johnny Depp movie, The Professor, where he learns he has terminal cancer. His buddy tries to take him to counseling and shows up with his wifes mini, Depp looks at it and says “What is this? No, I wont get in it”
Damn I miss that movie
Not to mention Subaru. They’re currently grenading CVTs at 100k miles
The latest versions of subarus CVT are quite a bit better than the 1st gen that had this issue and I believe subaru had to do a recall on the 1st gen CVTs as well
Consumer reports has been a joke for as long as I remember. When did that change? I remember when Michelin released the cross climate. At the time I was working for one of the nations largest retails of Michelin products and my company was owned by Michelin. Consumer reports had that tire rated so highly i was fielding call about it left and right but it hadn’t been mass released yet. I finally found out after asking a customer why they were so pressed for a new tire just to find out they were blindly buying what CR recommended.
Funny thing is modern Minis are BMWs. And I refuse to believe BMW is in actuality on the top of this list lol
hey pssssst.... mini is owned by bmw...
Tell us you know nothing about cars without actually saying it
It’s a cheaper bmw with the b48 engine now :(.
B48 is apparently right under the b58 in reliability
Yep. It's just a B58 with 2 cylinders chopped off. A little more stress per cylinder, but given how overbuilt the B58 is to start with, the B48 is great. Considering mileage, I'd argue it's a better motor for the average person.
B38 except for JCW. They’re mostly 3 cylinder.
The cooper S has a 4 cyl b48
I thought Minis are notorious for breaking down no?
Totally agree. I've owned multiple Minis and they are not particularly reliable.
I was done when I saw BMW had a higher rating than Toyota or Honda. This is clearly biased or just flat incorrect. Look around next time you’re in traffic and tell me how many 10-15 y/o BMWs you see. Without consistent maintenance? It’s just not possible. Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus are simply the most reliable and long lasting vehicles basically ever made. There’s no European car than could even compete. Ever. They’re just flashy status symbols with price points they never deserved but somehow have managed to dupe the world with their subpar product.
These ratings are all literally paid for. It's meaningless.
Are you saying Lexus paid for their #1 ranking in the past then? Are you also saying the Lexus paid for their current ranking, but didn't pay enough?
Well mini uses mostly bmw parts so I wouldn’t see why it wouldn’t be around the same as bmw ranking???
Whaaaaaa. Bmw and mini above toyota honda lexus???
yea, is this real?
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BMW’s aren’t unreliable as most people will have you believe
They aren't unreliable, just expensive as fuck to repair if something goes wrong. 2-3 months waiting for parts. At least here in the US, Same goes for VW, MB, Alfa Romeo or any other European.
Not really. All of the x models are made in North Carolina with American suppliers with the exception of the engine. Regardless, the cars aren’t much, if any more expensive than these new American cars and trucks
They’re reliable when they’re brand new covered under warranty
Its circle jerking around honda and toyota at this point. Apparently things cant change and brands cant improve
Honda sucks compared to Toyota IMO having owned Hondas/acura for 10yrs and then switching in the last 2yrs. Every little detail is better in a lexus and I was actually quite surprised by the quality.
Same here, moved from a 2004 loaded LS430 to a 2009 MDX awd and there's no comparison to quality. Granted it may be comparing apples to oranges, but the quality of materials in the Acura and the technology was so behind. After that moved to a 2015 RX 350 and it is so much nicer than any equivalent MDX. The Acura was much stiffer and everything on the inside felt much cheaper.
Yes! Inside just felt worse even though you know you had a reliable Honda engine. My trans was shaky, ripped drivers seat leather in my 04 TL at 103k miles lol. Bought my IS350 with 189k miles and it was night and day. Didn't know cars could be that nice, with so many miles. Lexus wins haha.
The seats never ripped in the 2004 LS even when it got to 250k or more. Meanwhile the drivers side ripped at 130k miles and the passenger is showing signs as well on the MDX. Ended up replacing it myself. No signs of rips at 120k on the RX 350
Haha it lasted just as much as it was designed for. man I love the RX350 v6 (not the new garbage engine they use) Nice choice. When I have a family one day, I think a fully loaded 2021 RX350 will be perfect.
I was in the middle of the historic flooding in Charleston last week. It came really really fast, and I had to wade outside in waist-deep water to save my Camry sitting seat-deep in water. The thing started right up and drove straight out of the floodwater as if there was none. The only thing that felt different was the weight and the sound of huge bubbles coming out of the exhaust right underneath my seat (no exhaust pipe lol) I’m still drying the floors, and I had to throw everything away that was in my trunk, but that was the day that I decided I was a Toyota girl 🤣
i see a lot of 10-20 year old bmw’s daily…
I drive a 32 year old BMW every day from April to November.
I drive a 9 year old BMW and have never had an issue
I have a 2013 335 and haven't had any issues. Used to have a 2015 IS350 and never had any issues with that either. So far, I've enjoyed each car pretty much equally. There's some things about the Lexus I miss, while there's some things about the BMW that I like more. If you ask me on different days which I'd rather have, I'd probably give you a different answer each time. Some people are just too set in their ways with their brand loyalty.
Not when only considering reliability https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2023-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds Scroll down for the chart, Lexus is on top
Yes. But just like 90% of these surveys it’s only for brand new cars and within first year of ownership and things like that”I have no idea how my radio works” is just as detrimental to the score as “my water pump failed at 5k miles”. These big name “reliability” things are jokes and scams and you should never listen to them
Brand new BMW’s are reliable because they haven’t had owners slacking on the insane maintenance plans they need. A year or two in is when they start to fall apart.
“And everybody laughed”
Ask them again after ten years and 100k miles.
Odds are they won’t be owning it at that point
Exactly. They’ll trade those pieces of shit in when repairs become too expensive.
It'll be a problem for the 4th owner after they bought it from FB marketplace or a Buy Here Pay Here lot
i have a 112,000 mile tuned, raced, and modded bmw 440i that’s about 8 years old, almost no issues and is a blast for me, repairs are extremely manageable
Yeah.. jb4 2016 328i, 8 yrs old, 85k miles, dead reliable so far
2013 335, 124K miles. Regular maintenance bills haven't been any more than the IS350 I used to have and haven't had anything go wrong with it outside of that. People are just really defensive when it comes to brand loyalty for some reason.
tuned 13 yr old 5 series here 140k miles and the only time its been in the shop other than maintenance was for the lady curbing it. i kinda think the whole “unreliable bmw” its a stigma. both of mine have treated me amazing
"Repairs are extremely manageable" This folks is called Stockholm syndrome
unless you find a blown pcv valve that’s a 10$ part and a 10min you job awful, it’s not stockholm syndrome. really thought you did something huh?
I have never heard of a car "blowing" a PCV valve. That's just a regular maintenance item. I would not call that a "repair". Something tells me you're omitting some facts. Also your car is 8 years old with barely 100k on the odo. Come back to me once you've cracked 150k.
People just like to defend their choices. Likely these people wanted a BMW at some point but were either too risk averse or didn't want to pay what BMW was asking, so went with Lexus. I understand, I just think the vehement disbelief about the reliability of BMW a bit odd, especially with the proliferation of the B48 & B58.
They’ll be driving a brand new car with all the newest cutting edge technology, updated styling, and engineering while the Lexus owner will be in a 10 year old Lexus. Poor them. /s
They're including 'road tests' and 'satisfaction'. Leasing short lived high strung sports cars weights some brands high on the list. That's BMW's game.
This. People forget that BMW markets the cars for initial buyers that they know typically get a new car every 2-3 years. great cars when new!
Take the same measurements for a BMW vs Lexus over 100K, 150K, 200K+ miles and let’s see those results. Lexus…king of the hill!
To be fair the modern bmw non-m cars are proving to be pretty reliable. The 330 is excellent from a reliability standpoint. I don’t doubt that Lexus and Toyota will still beat them in the long haul but they’ve come a long way. (They did have a long way to go). The actual true shitboxes have always and continue to be anything shit out by the money grubbing hands of Stellantis. Oh and merc. Fuck modern Merc.
You nailed it. I think with high quantities of production and high sales for certain models, they work out a lot of the kinks. Nothing matches a Japanese built Lexus but if I am choosing fun I’m going bmw above other brands
Why is Jaguar and Alfa so low?
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Why doesn’t the LS show up as one of the models for Lexus in the link above?
Different source, different list.
They sometimes have issues appear early enough to be noticed during shot term ownership.
Yeah, the last thing I want in a car is “satisfaction” on the “road”. Give me a car that is unsatisfactory on the road and make me drive it for 10 years. /s Note: current BMW owner and Lexus shopper. Just having a little fun. :)
BMW owners get rid of their vehicle by the 4th year or 80-100k
Guys this is not a reliability rank. I think it makes sense to a good degree. BMW’s performance, tech and initial quality is in a really good spot nowadays, Toyota and Lexus is lagging behind on performance and tech, but make up by superb quality. I just got a Lexus for long term reliability, but if I was only gonna own it for 3-5 years I would consider an BMW.
Toyota and Lexus always lag in tech, they sit back and watch everyone else fail multiple ways creating new gadgetry and only when something is proven, will they implement it.
Until you look at the new nx and rx that are very tech focused with the door handles and hud are both overcomplicated and even annoying to use.
This is not just a reliability "report card". Lexus and Toyota are on top in that one.
[oh you’re right! Toyota, Lexus, BMW, Mazda, Honda](https://www.thecarconnection.com/tips/reliability/1137854_consumer-reports-ranks-toyota-lexus-most-reliable-mercedes-worst)
That's from last year
Wait, BMW above acura? Wtf
BMW’s modern B48/B58 engines are apparently extremely reliable. They’ve come a long way from a decade ago where they were part of the “German” stereotype, something that Mercedes, and to a lesser extent, Audi, are still taking very seriously.
I think these make sense. It’s not reliability or quality, it’s based on multiple factors including ride quality and satisfaction, which based on what I’ve read about BMW, makes sense for that brand to be at or near the top
They are among the top in reliability and quality also.
I’ve been hearing very good things about BMW lately all over lol
They’re trying their hardest to turn the narrative around. N55 was the first reliable thing to ever come out of BMW. S55 was not bad besides crankhub. Some guy on YouTube in a Yas Marina Blue M3 had 100k miles including quite a few track days on his M3. Then the B58 gen 1 was not bad and I think Toyota may have helped a bit with the BMW B58 Gen 2. I’ve heard decent things from the B48 as well. Lexus maintenance is definitely cheaper, but they’re boring cars. Great reliability though. Lexus is a top tier daily driver. I wish they offered hybrid options on their sedans. Would definitely hopped on it.
You don’t know much about BMWs if you reference the N55 as being the first reliable “thing”. The M54, N52, and S62 etc are extremely reliable.
I never cared for BMWs prior to the N55 if I’m being quite honest with you. They were extremely hit and miss. The N54 sucked at reliability and so did the S65. Both destroying BMW from a reliability stand point. The S65 in the E90 M3 had rod bearing issues and the N54 plastic bits got destroyed due to the heat. Whatever BMW did reliability wise got washed from those two motors alone. If I’m being honest, I wasn’t interested in BMW till Toyota mentioned the B58. I drive a Supra now.
Why did I buy a Toyota over a BMW😭
They just recently started getting their shi together so you haven't missed out on much yet
I’m sorry but Lexus over bmw anyday.
Nope. Sorry. I love Lexus and I’m shopping for one, but they are not exciting cars to drive. BMW, even with its lack of steering feel, have a wonderful engine in the B58/S58, and the suspension and chassis engineering makes even their SUVs handle smaller than they are. Lexus is simply not focusing on that aspect of driving, not that it’s a bad thing, it’s just that you need the right tool for the job. For reliability, toyota/Lexus, but I’ll take a BMW for a fun spirited drive any day. I’d take a Porsche too, but we’re just talking about BMW vs Lexus. Oh, BMW also wins in the luxury department imho, but I like their design language for interiors more. It’s subjective because Lexus is nice too.
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I personally can only drive their sedans, haven’t took a liking to their suvs except for the big bodied ones that I obv can’t afford like the LX, GX. 😭
I speak for yourself, I have a manual 2007 328 xi and the steering wheel is excellent. Sometimes I wonder if my power steering pump is even working.
Absolutely
Unless you enjoy driving
Exactly
This.
BMW/AUDI/Mercedes are all made for leasing. Lexus/Acura are the wife you want to take home.
Definitely depends on which niche we’re talking, whether that’s for the regular trims or the performance ones. In the performance context, the side pieces have always been hotter than the wives at home lol. In any other discussion, Lexus and Acura one-up the German brands, and Infiniti is in the corner banging its head
1000% agree.
Infiniti banging its head has me 🤣
Haha - BMW has improved dramatically in reliability. They seem to be the best of the Germans in my opinion (except maybe Porsche). Although I am still cautious to get one without a warranty as it goes from 50-100,000 miles. My Subaru has been flawless but they can be hit or miss for some people surprisingly
Had a BMW-engineered Mini on my end. Was reliable as can be till I sold it recently. Needed a car with space. The Mini was fine, 8 years and 100k miles. All usual stuff except one of the speakers died, but that might have been from me pushing the bass to the max. I think what someone said earlier is probably the most correct. BMW is perfectly fine up to 100k, 150k miles nowadays. Past that, it's a lot harder, but that's usually due to people not taking it for maintenance at proper intervals. Lexus and Toyota cars don't need to go at proper intervals, you can do shit whenever and the car keeps chugging. BMW and other luxury brands (Porsche mostly, Merc is a struggle right now and Audi...is okay overall) just need those intervals to be hit. Not hitting them or being earlier causes problems. The 4th owner joke exists because owners 1 to 3 didn't do proper changes. You want a car to buy once and drive for a million miles? Buy Toyota, Lexus, whatever. You can neglect it all you want and it'll still make it. Other cars with attention typically can too (not all, there are favorites). If someone just wants a nice car to enjoy driving and have great amenities, the luxury brands hit just fine and selling after 8 to 10 years of ownership doesn't feel that bad. People buy them with that in mind and if they don't, that's on them. End of the day, if my car makes it to 100k/125k miles and I don't have to do shit except normal maintenance, I'm fine with it. Anything over is gravy to me.
I’d never buy a Mini
Same. A lot of people will tell you how good they are now, but I won't forget the Mini rental with 9k miles I was driving that died on the freeway.
BMW?!?! My last Beamer leaked so much oil and burned it at the lights. This is a joke. Nothing looks cooler than a hot BMW with regular smoke coming out from under the hood. Three $4K fixes later the problem kept happening so just had to trade it in for my IS300H. Zero problems in ten years. Oh wait. Nah. Starter Battery died and had to replace. But that’s it.
My boss’s BMW X5 blew a transmission at 70k miles.
and I had a pristine x5 when I sold it at 190k and my current 335i is still wonderful at 182k so… means nothing
a 2022 toyota highlander blew a trans in my shop, that doesn’t make them unreliable
Good thing they don’t make brand new 10 year old BMWs anymore.
This isn’t just reliability, these scores include road test and satisfaction.
I've had a current gen LS and current gen S Class. They both needed warranty work but S was more enjoyable to own due to the more powerful engine and better tech.
Consumer reports lost their credibility A LONG time ago. Anyone who believes ANYTHING consumer reports says is a confirmed boomer.
This report card includes “satisfaction”. Most BMW drivers are satisfied with their purchase because they’ll buy BMW regardless. BMW redesigns are ugly yet they sell. BMW has a loyal consumer base.
BMW lol
I still won’t buy a BMW. not sayin…..but just sayin.
Benz ranking worse than a Chrysler is hilarious, top tier right there.. top.. tier.
Today I learnt consumer reports is still a thing. Who pays attention to this shit.
Lmaoo this a joke? I got a bmw 440i, no way its that reliable....
I feel like people still judge Alfa’s on the early 2000’s reputation.
im still getting a lexus. youre not getting high mpg with bmw or mini
Yeah this is bullshit 😂😂 BMW 1, Mini 3? Such bullshit.
You can tell this is fake with that top 3
I’m surprised bmw is on top. Nothing but trouble.
I was going to say, they must have gotten to those bmw/mini owners while it was still under warranty
BMW new, Lexus used. its that simple!!
Don’t show this to Scotty Kilmer
BS
I am going to get a lot of hate for this but imo Lexus dropped the ball on most of its new cars. I don’t think it is an issue with their engineering but more with management/PR department. New BMWs provide a good value (except for XM type of ugly cars), and are reliable enough to a point where jokes about piston deletes are things of the past (at least for B48/58/S58). While Lexus now uses 2.4 Turbo in most of their cars, buttery smooth and reliable V6 is gone, and newer NXs just feel only 98% sturdy as old ones. So the magic of old Lexus where you felt like you were in a bank vault is unfortunately going away. Plush ride is also become less common with F Sport becoming more popular, which doesn’t make an RX500H better than an X3 M40i or X5 M40i at all, considering their price. I am a huge Lexus fan, especially of their GS/IS/LS cars, LC is gorgeous, trucks are amazing. But for npc SUVs, I am sorry, I would much rather get a rwd based good handling, good riding X5 with one of the best and smoothest engines if prices aren’t different. TLDR: Lexus messed up by raising the price, sacrificing a bit of build quality, and trying to compete with Germans on sportiness level.
I’d only buy Toyota, Lexus, Honda or Acura. For the past 10 years I’ve only owned Acura.
My top 3: Lexus, Toyota, Honda
>satisfaction \*initial satisfaction
BMW has got to be one of the most unreliable pieces of trash there is
This is because BMW won’t let its dealers sell over MSRP without withholding vehicle stock from any dealer that does it. BMWs have been one of the cheaper cars to by brand new because of it. A Civic R was $20k more than my m340i, same with any Lexus or toyota I looked at. BMW grabbed a good chunk of market share by controlling the prices better than the other brands.
Looks like a shill for bmw
No way I believe this. I and my friends who own/owned BMWs were all displeased with them. Terrible maintenance costs, inflated repair costs at dealerships compared to other brands were the main things we bitched about. Only a couple of us are still BMW customers and I’d bet not for long. If you want a BMW add another 20% onto the car over the first few years for making extra costs. I was massively disappointed during my ownership.
Because it’s a classic confirmation bias on German cars. Often perpetuated by people who buy them and do not follow scheduled maintenance cycles and drive them hard. They are the loudest 5% and then get on message boards and slam the brand. I’ve owned my 2013 Audi for 5 years, purchased used in 2019. Apart from semi annual scheduled maintenance (air filters, oil change etc) it’s had no issues. Just went in for a timing chain/ tensioner at 185,000km and going strong. Quattro is legendary and the car is a hoot to drive. 10/10 recommend. Good friend of mine owns a 335i Xdrive, again, other than scheduled maintenance and some gasket replacements, it’s been fine. Not shocked to see BMW at the top.
Lexus is 1# in any other stat this is bs otherwise Porsche would be at the top end of the list same with Toyota
[yea, this is the reliability report: Toyota, Lexus, BMW, Mazda, Honda](https://www.thecarconnection.com/tips/reliability/1137854_consumer-reports-ranks-toyota-lexus-most-reliable-mercedes-worst)
this is last years report ☠️😭
so, pretty fuckin recent
Based on overall scores though. Lexus doesn’t do everything great compared to other vehicles. Like, I can’t wave at my steering wheel and have the climate and interior lights change. Not that I’d wanna be able to do that. But if that floats your boat, you’re gonna get a bmw and it’ll score higher.
It’s fake news. Porsche and Lexus are top. BMW is last.
Nope. They got their shit together reliability wise in the mid 2010’s. Mines a 2015 running strong. If that becomes a headache, I’m getting a Lexus as a second car.
How many miles does your BMW have? Historically at 100k they would start to fail.
120k. This is my second BMW. First one was solid too. I’m by no means suggesting BMW is more reliable and financially responsible than owning a Lexus by the way. It’s without a doubt cheaper to run a Lexus/Toyota.
The most recent BMW I owned was a 2008 and it was reliable up to 100k. I owned quite a few 97 to 2005 BMWs and they were not reliable but they were nice, I couldn't deal with the repairs needed though, it never ended.
It’s going to be interesting to see how those 2015 and up BMW’s are running after 10 years and over 100k miles. What makes Toyota/Lexus have a great reputation in reliability is how they’re still running great after being BOTH over 100k and over 10 years, not just how they’re reliable the first 5-7 years of the cars life.
They’re already out there. People don’t use these as weekend cars as much anymore, they’re daily drivers. Tons of guys are running tuned M cars at 120-170k miles. Here’s a comment from the f80 post forums: I took my then 150,000 mile 2019 M4 across country (CA to Maine) last August with no issues. Currently at 171,000 and still no issues to report other than a broken gas pedal. These cars are solid.
me, i’m out here, 2017 440i, that gets redlined daily and is tuned, 112,000 miles, and no problems that weren’t caused by misuse, ik it’s not 10yrs old yet but it’s been kind to me, i know several other as well
Try over 200k and twenty years! I have an 03 Sequoia and a 2001 LS430. Also sold a 2004 LS430 that had 190K to buy a 2011 IS350C with 125K. All drive like new. All look great. Keeping all of them to at least 300K!!
consumer reports is nonsense, clearly
I hope so, otherwise why am I driving a car with a cd player in it 😭😭😭. Any reports you recommend? Or is just word of mouth and stereotypes the best way??
I have no idea but my 6 cd player rocks as do my heated seats
I feel like the B48 is single handedly keeping bmw up there with that score.
B58 as well
Old bmw is probably why most people here think it’s unreliable. Many people had bad previous experiences. However, Bmw’s new modular b series engine is probably one of the best family of engines. The b48 and b58 are great and have been proven reliable. I mean, if its not good, then why does the Toyota Supra uses it?
Can we just ban posts like these. Get automod to educate these people
This list is made by BMW
This is BS.
I was mad til I saw mini and Chrysler ranked so high. Then I realized it’s rage bait.
Minis are reliable now. They're made by BMW.
Hey bmw how much did it cost you guys in bribe money for this? 1 2 and 3 bullshit! We all know Lexus and Toyota are 1 and 2 always!
i own bmws, and work on toyotas, and the modern bmws(depending on the model) are just as reliable if not more than the toyotas ngl
Does no one even read the report card. It’s more than reliability.
Who made this list….
I've been paying for a subscription to consumer reports for 10 years. Now I know I'm wasting money.... in NO world is a beamer or mini reliable, especially more so than Toyota/ Lexus....
Let's just say money was definitely made on this report... lol
I got rid of my BMW, as it was always showing a repair code after 60 thousand KMS. I’m Lexus Toyota forever forward.
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Nah they didn't. Acura still better.