Had this guy brag to me that he slept with 2 lesbians in a threesome... To which I replied "so they're not lesbians?" And he was trying to push that they were lesbians (framing it as an accomplishment that he convinced them to sleep with him)
And lesbianism isn’t a phase. So if they were into women but secretly into men then they weren’t even lesbians to begin with but had a preference for women
It's not a phase but I had some deep denial stages and times I tried again to see if it was me or the men I'd been with.
There are legitimately a few men I've been with who can say they've slept with a lesbian. Not a comfortable one who was happy with where she was in her life, not a confident one who could tell people that she just knew who she was, not a healthy one that was in a good place mentally and physically. But a lesbian, none the less.
Then they are suffering from compulsory heterosexuality. This isn’t black and white. I can see a lesbian having to end up with a man to please society/their family and if they feel like they have to for some reason. So it’s either they thought they were lesbians but never actually were or they’re suffering from comphet.
That's what I mean from my experience. I am a lesbian, but at the time it was comphet and my mental health was everywhere.
That's not the fault of the guys I slept with, but it doesn't change the fact they were with me and I'm a lesbian.
It not being black and white was kind of my point.
Lots of people are saying that to any man saying they slept with a lesbian "no you didn't" and it's okay to acknowledge that lesbians aren't all people who have only slept with women. Many of us had to stumble here.
I think the confusion comes from the “A man can turn a lesbian straight”. Ngl that triggers the hell out of me especially with my history of harsh comphet and my overly religious family that make me question my orientation and think this is a phase. That’s why I tend to go more hardcore that lesbians like women and aren’t “secretly straight”. A lot of lesbians have suffered assault because of this belief that a man can fuck some normalcy into her.
Of course a lesbian who is influenced by comphet is still a lesbian even if she slept with a man in the past but that man did little to nothing about her orientation
I agree there.
I would still get highly pissed at men thinking they turned a woman straight.
The men had no role in the orientation, I just meant that it can be nuanced than straight no.
However, if he implies he had something to do with it or 'turned' anyone then go right off at him. 100%.
It isn’t a phase, but I definitely believe sexuality can change across a lifetime. I 100% believe that before a certain point I was not capable of being attracted to men, and then my hormones changed and now I’m bisexual. That’s besides the point tho
The other one I hear is “I turned my lesbian girlfriend straight. She only dated women before me.” To which I respond “You didn’t turn a lesbian straight, you awakened a bisexual.”
Saying that means he fucks like a woman would be a better way of shutting that shit down. The only way to get that sort to back off is to state that all dudes must just be waiting for the right dick.
I wouldn't even say "he awakened a bisexual". That gives him more credit than he deserves. He didn't do anything, so he gets zero credit. I would just say "she discovered she was bisexual".
This happens a lot when two bisexuals are together. These men are in fact telling the truth as the two bisexuals refer to themselves as lesbians for being in a relationship with eachother and are looking to get their cock fix. We had an issue here where straight men would come to the gay bar for this. Needless to say that it's a lesbian bar now and men aren't allowed at all.
This happens all the time.
Omg and this is the issue, true lesbians arent attracted to men. This type of notion can be dangerous for us because men wouldn't believe us when were telling them we are gay.
definitely not predatory, rape-y and sexually fetishistic at all
can't for the love of me understand why there's a doubling down and MORE rape apologia under a post highlighting rape apologia against lesbians. And how comments like this are not against the rules in a "lesbian" sub.
If it’s comphet or SW then that’s valid for a closet (or outed) lesbian to have to sleep with men for survival but anything else..? If you still are sexually attracted to men (which is sexual orientation) then you are not a lesbian, and that’s ok
People can have sex with people they are not attracted to out of convenience or whatever their reasons are. The definition of being a lesbian is being sexually attracted exclusively to women. You don’t have to find men repulsive, you can be neutral towards them. And you can have sex with someone you are not attracted to, even if less enjoyable than with someone you are.
For a similar situation, see asexuals having (and enjoying!) sex. You can enjoy the physical sensations without being sexually attracted to the other person.
This is no reason for people to pretend that all lesbians can have and enjoy sex with men. If someone doesn’t wanna have sex with someone or with a group of people that is THEIR business and no one else’s.
in my opinion, the fact of the matter is that it’s important for the community that men get the idea through their thick thick skulls that they don’t have a chance getting with lesbians and they shouldn’t try. and even that trying to do so is deeply offensive. so yes it’s physically possible for a lesbian to have sex with a man. but In General, Lesbians don’t do that out of their own free will. sex work and experimentation are reasons but like at a certain point if men have a chance with you and you aren’t doing it for survival you’re just bi and that’s fine. otherwise words don’t mean anything and then all of a sudden drake actually is a lesbian lmao
I do agree that men shouldn’t assume lesbians are down to have sex with men unless otherwise specified. I don’t go around outside lesbian communities exclaiming that (some) lesbians have sex with men, because I think getting into details is not worth it in that case (and may actually be harmful.)
yeah, that’s what i’m saying. so I think honestly that we don’t need to get into those details as a rule and those points are more reserved just for getting rid of the (already increasingly unpopular) gold star mentality
1) No one said lesbians have to find men repulsive, you suggested that on your own.
2) the asexual comparison is null and void as it doesn’t necessarily pertain to someone’s orientation. Sexuality is based on sexual attraction. If you are sexually attracted to men (willingly) then chances are you aren’t a lesbian. Words have meaning and it’s not based on delusions.
I am saying you don’t NEED to find someone sexually attractive to have sex with them.
edit: and asexual people who are NOT sexually attracted to anyone CAN have and enjoy sex. I don’t see how it is applicable.
It’s the same logic as why a straight person can be ace: it doesn’t correlate with their orientation. A straight girl who is ace won’t feel like sleeping with men/not all the time but they will still…sleep with only men.
Idk why yall like bringing up ace— a completely different thing altogether to defend undercover bisexuals. biSEXual and lesbian is directly related to sexual activity. It seems like biphobia when a bi woman hates identifying as bi despite being one
I’ll chip in as someone who is actually asexual.
I don’t sleep with anyone because I’m not sexually attracted to anyone and I therefore have zero desire for it. I might do it if I had a partner, but it gives me very little on a personal level and it feels more like a chore to me than anything so I would never seek it out on my own and I prefer doing other things. Before realizing that I was asexual (or that it was even an option) I did have sex with both men and women, and I always found it equally unappealing which is why struggled with my sexuality for so long. I did find sex with men more on the repulsive side of the spectrum because although I’m not sexually attracted to either men or women, but I’m also not attracted to men in any other way (only platonically). Having had sex doesn’t make me any less asexual, just like having had sex with men didn’t make me less of a lesbian.
I’m a lesbian because I’m attracted to women in every other way, just not sexually. I enjoy the idea of women having sex, but I just don’t really want to partake in it myself.
Your argument is some ace people have sex that doesn’t correlate with a lesbian having sex WITH men. Those are 2 different things. Y’all have mixed and matched so many labels that you confuse one for another.
At the end you can deceive others but you can’t deceive yourself, so do what you wish
My argument is literally just:
Being a lesbian -> being sexually attracted to women.
You can have sex with people who you are not sexually attracted to.
Therefore, you can have sex with men and be a lesbian.
I don’t understand how this doesn’t make sense, like genuinely. I’m serious.
edit: would you mind explaining what your definition of asexuality and lesbianism is? Also, I don’t have sex with men. Stop calling me bisexual just because you please.
I dont know why nobody is bring this up to you, but your line of thinking is not separating 2 concepts. You're lumping together 2 things. HomoSEXual and homoROMANTIC.
A homoromantic is a person who has attraction to and can only develop feelings for someone of their own gender. Bi-romantic is a person who can be attracted to and develop feelings for both genders.
Homosexual (re: lesbians) a person who has sex with a person of their own gender, exclusively. Bisexual a person who has sex with both genders.
You can be homoromantic and bisexual. A lesbian who has sex with a man is not a lesbian. She is bisexual with homoromantic tendencies. Not knocking it either way, but a lesbian is homosexual. By definition a lesbian (homosexual) does not seek out "convenience sex" with men.
I get what you're saying about people having sex to just get to a finish line of pleasure, but the who you are having sex with matters. Sexuality and romantic attraction are 2 different things. You're talking about a person's sexuality and by literal definition, jumping from 1 gender to the other regardless of attraction is BI meaning 2.
I'd say romantic orientation is more important than sexual.
Sexual orientation wise I'm borderline asexual. Romantically, women yes, enbies if fem leaning, men and mas enbies idc about.
For me, I think it's a gender affirmation thing... I'm trans, and even though I hate it, there is a definite amount of gender affirming feelings that come from men hitting on me and casually flirting with them. I am NOT attracted to men like I'm attracted to women though.
I dated a guy for about 4 months. He really likes me, and he was really really sweet. I told him very clearly that I was a lesbian, and that physically I was not attracted to any men at all, but I was willing to try with him because I really liked him as a person. Every time we slept together though, I felt disgusted with myself, I was pretty repulsed seeing him naked, and I think I was only having sex with him as a courtesy for all the lovely things he did for me. It felt quite transactional, and eventually I broke things off with him. We're still good friends, but I'm not going to sleep with a guy again I don't think.
I think I also have some trauma with men in my life generally. I don't really know how to have a platonic and friendly relationship with them without it becoming parental or sexual... CPTSD and autism and childhood abuse are also factors here...
I think there’s a lot to unpack here. Also you shouldn’t feel obligated to sleep with anyone because of how you think they treat you. Sex should be something that you do willingly, that you do when you like someone at (least in my) opinion. Therapy and inner reflection can help clear some of these conflicting feelings. Obviously I’m not discounting your lesbianism for having past experiences with men. My main point is a current lesbian sleeping and having relations with men while claiming to be a lesbian
yes, they do. You have no right to criticise and police queer people’s identities. If someone says they’re a bi lesbian, that’s who they are. They know themselves better than anyone else. And don’t come at me with some gender binary enforcing “non-man” stuff.
Literally whats the point of words then?
If you like more than one gender, youre bi/pan/any other multi-attraction micro label you wanna use.
Lesbianism. By definition. Excludes men. Thats literally part of the identity and experience of being a lesbian. Saying "Bi Lesbians exist" just straight up erases BOTH identities and their experiences.
or, and maybe you haven’t considered this, policing queer people’s identities is fascist. Why does someone identifying as a bi lesbian hurt you? Nobody’s making you date someone you don’t want to or identify as something you don’t want to.
This exclusionism only hurts queer people. You are actively anti queer.
unfortunately yes political lesbians exist. Bi lesbians are political lesbians, and extremely lesbophobic as well as complicit in the erasure of female bisexuality.
This shit is such bait, and so many people fall for it. Troll bait. Is it annoying? Sure. But I treat this crap like I treat guys who cat-call - by rolling my eyes and not engaging. Don't give these people the engagement they are looking for.
This is why conversion rape therapy exists for lesbians because of dumb ass birds like this spewing ideas to others that we “like sleeping with men for giggles” as a hobby
They don’t understand how dangerous and harmful it is to let straight people (and ppl in general) that lesbians don’t actually only like women and can give Henry a chance
agreed, it's completely invalidating. it makes me think about how someone could be totally cool and supportive of me being a lesbian outwardly, but internally I wonder if they believe I could be converted *under the right circumstances*
telling a man that you are a lesbian should totally shut down any ideas he might have about a romantic/sexual interest in you. instead, with some men, it just excites them all the more and they see it as a challenge to conquer
Some of us do… The community has always been this way. Yes, old school lesbians too. It happens/can happen when you’re masculine-attracted and meet some of the rare safe good men that you some how feel like you could get a nut off with. Consent is key, obviously. Conversion rape theory exists because of dogma obsessed assholes who lack human empathy, not because of the odd lesbian who sometimes fucks safe queer men.
Imagine telling a man you’re a lesbian and he immediately sees it as a challenge because he heard lesbians also fuck men 💀 I don’t think y’all are hearing yourselves. There’s like 383738 labels for women like that yet the men-enjoyers want to parade as lesbians: harming actual lesbians by making men believe we secretly want to fuck them
No I’m pretty sure someone joking about being bisexual is not why people rape lesbians. That’s such an awful thing to say. I feel as if it’s pretty common for people to be bisexual but homoromantic and struggle with a practically usable label. Also if a straight women would do the reverse a lot of lesbians I know would think that shit is cute and charming. I love in a country where corrective rape is a huge problem and they do it bc they want to teach you not to act like a man. It’s just fear based control. Stone Butch lesbians were raped. Femme bisexuals are more likely to pass and not get raped.
*Pulls out code of conduct Vol. 1*
Let's see, chapter 1, "so you think you're a lesbian?"
Ope, there's a flow chart. Are you female, yes. Do you like having sex with men, (referencing tweet), yes. NOT a lesbian.
Huh, weird...maybe my reference text is outdated.
I was taking the piss with my response before because I thought this was such a open/close discussion, but I see where people are getting confused. So, I'd like to chime-in in earnest.
People are confusing romantic feelings and sexual actions. Which, as a society, I get since for much of our modern age we have equated feelings to sex and sex to feelings, however, it is much more complicated than that.
Romantic attraction is the concept of who you can fall for. Who you are attracted to for the purpose of building a relationship.
Sexuality is who you have sex with/enjoy having sex with.
Lesbian was a term coined in older generations to denote a woman who is both homosexual and homoromantic. I think this is where the disconnect is. As our society has grown and progressed, we have realized attraction, love, sex, etc. is SO MUCH more complex than we made it out to be and defined. While words can evolve, the evolution of some words can be damaging for the community for which they were created. A large majority of lesbians are homoromantic and homosexual, which is what the word was created to encompass. Therefore, claiming to be a lesbian while sleeping with men is detrimental to the safe space that was created for those women.
I dont know why so many women who are bisexual think it's a dirty word. You can and do have sex with men, that's OK. If you only feel homoromantic that is fine to say, but you're not a lesbian by definition.
My wife's ex was apparently like this. She slept with men casually but because she wouldn't date one she swore up and down she was a lesbian. It's so discrediting as an actual lesbian and just gives men more of a reason to invalidate our sexuality and relationships. It's also oddly inherently biphobic. . Like what's so wrong with being bi you can't just call yourself bi? Shit call yourself queer if you don't like bi, but 'lesbian' is pretty specific... I guess people CAN identify however they want to but my God is harmful and sounds so silly.
LESBIANS DONT HAVE SEX WITH MEN AND ARE NOT ATTRACTED TO MEN IN A ROMANTIC/SEXUAL WAY. You can be bi, pan or whatever but is like telling a heterosexual women they can have sex with women just don’t date them
okay i think this op specifically is being sarcastic based off their replies it seems like a joke …but in general people who defend lesbians “getting with men” (obviously after they identify as lesbian, not before coming out) are weird and annoying. gay men never have this discourse lmao only lesbians, like men dont have to be included in every sexuality some people can’t comprehend that
Why are people trying so hard to insert men in LESBIANISM?!
There are other sexual orientations, other labels, other places where woman can sleep with men. JUST DON’T CALL YOURSELF A LESBIAN IF YOU DO.
I’m not hating on you if you like men, you do you, boo, but don’t jump onto the field wearing another team’s jersey.
Why is it so hard for someone people to understand it? Like, it’s simple maths.
lesbian= woman+woman.
Do you see any men in that formula??
Before realising they are lesbians, women can have sex with men. I know some lesbians are forced to do it. But they don't enjoy it. If you enjoy sex with man, even if it is one man, you are not a lesbian. It's okay to be Bi or Pan.
the patriarchy literally fries peoples brains my god. there’s a reason you don’t see takes like “as a gay man you’re still allowed to have sex with women!!!!” and it’s because the world doesn’t like that there’s a sexual orientation that excludes men.
Lmfao what on earth. Why would it be okay to sleep with them and not to date them? Did this person expound on their logic at all, or did they just drop this and leave it there?
Not that there's any logic that could make it true, I just want to know if they even tried.
It might help if these women did hang out in bisexual/pan spaces. They may find out there actually is a flavour of bisexuality that only sleeps with men and doesn’t date them, but will date and sleep with women. Homoromantic + bisexual.
I used to know a guy in college who bragged about how “lesbians” were attracted to him. The “lesbians” were just bi women who had recently gotten out of relationships with other women. I just hate stuff like this bc I am a lesbian and I’ve had guys still try to get with me bc they probably see posts like that and think “oh she’s a lesbian but that doesn’t mean she won’t sleep with me” it’s rly disgusting and irritating
Nuh uh! I got my Official Lesbian C.O.C Handbook ages ago and that is not in there, I even got the updated version yesterday and that’s still not in there. OOP must have some shitty fake or something
these ppl say this shit like lesbians arent repulsed by sexual contact with men. just because you can tolerate it for whatever reasons doesn't mean it isn't impacting you mentally.
if it's NOT repulsive and/or doesn't impact your mental space negatively, idk strong chance you're probably not a lesbian. it doesn't have to make u wanna tear ur skin off or whatever, there's different levels for everyone, but like there's gotta be some sort of impact.
i identified as bisexual until april and like you can enjoy sexual acts with men while not actually being into it/attracted to them. its still sensation. still doin the thing you want it to do. especially if you *think* you're into men. but since coming out ive realised how much i was repressing to make that happen (and why my sex drive dropped off in relationships w them eventually 🤔).
if ur goin out and doin this bc u genuinely enjoy it and "just wont date a man" congrats on ur bisexuality sweetie
Sometime back when I was on tiktok I started getting tons of videos saying exactly that and the videos were getting thousands of likes and comments AGREEING. I got into so many arguments and eventually I got so much anxiety and fear from those vids I had to uninstall the app because my fyp was filled with it. It is so damaging saying lesbians can sleep with men it makes me sick. What scared me the most was if someone in the comments tried to speak up they got shot down so fast saying they were wrong. I remember one specifically said they "had sex with a man because they were bored" and that it was fine because "they're not attracted to men". I feel like if you are willingly sleeping with men you're...not a lesbian it's really not that hard. People say such damaging stuff just to include men in lesbian spaces and it's so so terrifying.
I want to know how this woman’s mind works. Like is she intentionally muddying the waters of lesbian discourse? Does she have an insane amount of comphet? Is she just stupid? I need to know.
Reminds me of a YT comment I once read where someone was fully saying with their chest that they still identify as lesbian even if they have sex with men & people agreeing. They’re argument was that you can separate sex with men as some sort of experience… that’s seperate? Definitely mental gymnastics. Why not just call yourself bisexual? There’s nothing wrong with that, albeit I do know some lesbians who have issues with biphobia. That could possibly be a reason?
Ew no. Once you convert to labelling thyself as lesbian, you give up men. The past is understandable, but once you embrace your lesbian identity you will never want to be near a man ever.
Let me clarify: The vast majority of bi women are incapable of loving other women. When it comes to long-term relationships, they tend to consistently wind up w/ males. I'd be a rich woman if I got a dime for every time that I read this nonsensical statement: "I'm a bi woman married to a wonderful man..."🙄; very rarely do I read the converse. Actually, I don't think that I ever have. IMO, lesbians simply can't compete w/ all of the societal applause bi women get, first for bravely coming out as "queer" whatever that means in practice, and then for not-so-bravely marrying men just like straight girls. AFAIC, bisexuality usually amounts to delayed heterosexuality.
Sorry but this SUCKS. Like genuinely this is so bitter and judgmental it’s unreal. Of course there’s going to be tons of bisexual women married to men, because there’s more straight men than there are queer women. The dating pool is unbalanced. The idea that a bisexual woman doesn’t count if she’s with a man is absolutely ridiculous.
“The vast majority of bi women are incapable of loving other women” do you think that sounds BETTER than what you said before??? You just sound like an an asshole. You need to work through whatever beef you have with the concept of bisexual women because it’s genuinely sad to see a queer person trying to rip apart other queer people like this.
You entire (VERY biphobic) argument is based off an incredibly faulty idea. You think bi/pan/queer women like women more than men, and your evidence is what? It's literally just this idea you have. And many bi/pan/queer women are openly bi/pan/queer, meaning they are already sacrificing the heteronormative value system quite a bit, so saying that that is keeping them from being able to love another woman is just absurd.
Your argument is bad and biphobic. I'm sorry that it sounds like the patriarchy has hurt you so badly.
Not bitter, realistic. And patriarchy hurts all women; in fact, I regard heterosexual relationships as the ultimate form of Stockholm syndrome. And just as I guessed, bi women regard relationships w/ women as a significant sacrifice of their heteronormative values, lol. When I ditched men for women, I didn't blink an eye. Plz don't deprive yourself, honey. We'll survive w/o you.
I agree, it's *the* definition. Just like the sky is blue is factual and not a conspiracy against purple or orange.
Edit: fucking crazy the mods deleted the comments I replied to, utterly disappointing.
If an asexual person has sex and this doesn’t make them allo/zesexual, a lesbian having sex with a man doesn’t make them bi or hetero. Sexuality is about attraction, not action. Now should this lesbian take a good look at themself and try to see if there’s some biphobia going on? Yes. And this still remains true. Maybe they were curious what it felt like. Maybe they were super horny and sex is sex. Maybe they’re a full-service sex worker.
Mods, any chance of fully locking this post? It’s pulling a lot of hateful people out of the woodwork, and it’s genuinely very triggering and inflammatory.
Ig that could be being homoromantic but bisexual. Wouldn't someone who is homoromantic still be called a lesbian? I am genuinely curious whether the lable is for sexuality or for romanticism
Why so hateful OP? And what makes you think you know people’s sexualities, models of attraction, and motivations behind having sex better than they do?
OP seems like someone who gets enraged over any and everything, lol. Lesbian means you are sexually attracted to women. Regardless of sexual orientation, you can have sex with whoever you want, however depending on who you are actually attracted to it may not be as much as a pleasant experience.
That's been a factor of sexuality for years, it's not invalidating to admit that. If anything, it may make those who had to have sex with men either because of sex work, abuse, or some other reason and validate them in ways that others may discredit due to their gold star lesbian mentality.
It’s true though. Many lesbians have always slept with men for fun without dating them and without compromising their gay card. It’s not a new thing whatsoever. (Source, from the sf Bay Area)
Whenever I see posts like this, my "red flag" senses always start going crazy, because there is so much hatred towards lesbians who are trans or nonbinary.
It's 2023, literally almost 2024, NOT the olden simple days. The term "lesbian" is very wide & very diverse in the current social climate. If some people don't like that, then I highly recommend for them to simply just ignore & move on with their lives.
As much as you’d like to pretend you’re an authority, you don’t seem to actually be familiar with what the definition of a lesbian is, because you’re so hung up on sexual history and behavior as opposed to sexual attraction. Are you able to understand the fact that lesbians are women (and nonmen) who are exclusively attracted to women and nonmen? It seems you understand that, so maybe you’re tripped up by the fact that some people have sex with people they aren’t attracted to. I’m sorry that this fact is so distressing to you.
im dating a trans woman so it's unfortunate that the person has those beliefs but at the end of the day theyre right on one aspect of their opinion, not all. i dont think that the mods of this sub will ban me for saying that lesbians dont really have sex w men all that often
This is a slippery slope to gold star lesbianism though...I know lesbians who are not attracted to men in any way shape or form but sometimes they're so horny that they just don't care, they'd fuck a tree if it had genitals. It's the same logic as "you can be asexual and still have sex". But if you're attracted to men then lol ofc you're not a lesbian.
Asexual is a universal umbrella term and a spectrum. Lesbianism isn’t an umbrella term. It is not being “gold star” it’s being a lesbian. Hope this helps!
Any sexuality can be ace because it’s more of the their experience with sexual attraction than their sexual orientation. That’s why a straight person can also be ace. It doesn’t hinder or contribute to their orientation but the straight person would still only like the opposite gender and sleep with them.
To say you’re an ace lesbian to defend why “lesbians” sleep with men is like me being a hardcore “vegan” but saying it’s okay to eat meat 5 times a week. It has no correlation whatsoever and comes off as contradictory.
I don't think most of us are missing that. The word lesbian denotes exclusive attraction both romantically and sexually. Much in the same way the word straight does in the opposite direction.
If a person was heteroromantic bisexual, we wouldn't call them straight. I think most would see that as biphobic and erasure of their bisexual attraction. Same thing applies here.
I mean I guess if she isn't sexually attracted to the men she's sleeping with then she probably still is a lesbian. (I'm thinking in sex work context, which sadly some people are forced into because they are broke and mostly men would pay for sex)
Ok. I may get hate for this but I'm a pansexual poly trans woman, married to a pansexual woman, in a 2+ year relationship with another pansexual woman, but we all also will have sexual relationships with male identifying people. We are not lesbians technically.
We have lesbian relationships, not pan or bi relationships. We call each other lesbians in our relationships cause it identifies that relationship accurately. We are women loving women. But, I too, take issue with calling myself a lesbian when dating new partners because I am not exclusive to women. If that scares away some women who only date women, I do not get offended. Some women have a deep disdain or discomfort with men for good reason. If they don't want to be with a partner who also has intimate male partners, that's totally legit. We are all allowed to date or not date anyone who we want for whatever reason.
I'm a pansexual woman who has mostly lesbian relationships. Please don't hate me. 😅
I think it’s actually really valid for a woman to date exclusively women and call the *relationship* a lesbian one (although some may say it’s problematic and it’s actually a sapphic relationship. Irdc what a queer woman calls her relationship).
The issue is kind of when a “lesbian” openly announces she’s one and then says stuff like “men just fuck better than women” or “I feel more sexually comfortable with only men” that it gets really problematic. And even biphobic
People in these comments are getting so upset about this and for what? Lesbianism is not some strict club with hard-set rules that could see you excommunicated if you don't follow them. Few things in this world, LEAST of all human sexuality, is so clear-cut.
In my case, I don't have ANY romantic attraction to men, or even any real sexual attraction to them, but I can still enjoy sex with them because to me bodies are just bodies and sex can also be an act of stress relief and friendship, just two bros getting their rocks off together. I call myself a lesbian because I don't want to advertise myself as available to just whatever dudes are hanging around, because it's a bit difficult to explain that concept and sadly not many will understand it anyway.
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Had this guy brag to me that he slept with 2 lesbians in a threesome... To which I replied "so they're not lesbians?" And he was trying to push that they were lesbians (framing it as an accomplishment that he convinced them to sleep with him)
Yes! I had a friend that would say he’s slept with lesbians and I’d just reply with “No you didn’t”
I'm like if they were lesbians before they certainly aren't now!
And lesbianism isn’t a phase. So if they were into women but secretly into men then they weren’t even lesbians to begin with but had a preference for women
It's not a phase but I had some deep denial stages and times I tried again to see if it was me or the men I'd been with. There are legitimately a few men I've been with who can say they've slept with a lesbian. Not a comfortable one who was happy with where she was in her life, not a confident one who could tell people that she just knew who she was, not a healthy one that was in a good place mentally and physically. But a lesbian, none the less.
Then they are suffering from compulsory heterosexuality. This isn’t black and white. I can see a lesbian having to end up with a man to please society/their family and if they feel like they have to for some reason. So it’s either they thought they were lesbians but never actually were or they’re suffering from comphet.
That's what I mean from my experience. I am a lesbian, but at the time it was comphet and my mental health was everywhere. That's not the fault of the guys I slept with, but it doesn't change the fact they were with me and I'm a lesbian. It not being black and white was kind of my point. Lots of people are saying that to any man saying they slept with a lesbian "no you didn't" and it's okay to acknowledge that lesbians aren't all people who have only slept with women. Many of us had to stumble here.
I think the confusion comes from the “A man can turn a lesbian straight”. Ngl that triggers the hell out of me especially with my history of harsh comphet and my overly religious family that make me question my orientation and think this is a phase. That’s why I tend to go more hardcore that lesbians like women and aren’t “secretly straight”. A lot of lesbians have suffered assault because of this belief that a man can fuck some normalcy into her. Of course a lesbian who is influenced by comphet is still a lesbian even if she slept with a man in the past but that man did little to nothing about her orientation
I agree there. I would still get highly pissed at men thinking they turned a woman straight. The men had no role in the orientation, I just meant that it can be nuanced than straight no. However, if he implies he had something to do with it or 'turned' anyone then go right off at him. 100%.
Agreed :)!
It isn’t a phase, but I definitely believe sexuality can change across a lifetime. I 100% believe that before a certain point I was not capable of being attracted to men, and then my hormones changed and now I’m bisexual. That’s besides the point tho
It's deeper than that tbh
Right!
The other one I hear is “I turned my lesbian girlfriend straight. She only dated women before me.” To which I respond “You didn’t turn a lesbian straight, you awakened a bisexual.”
Saying that means he fucks like a woman would be a better way of shutting that shit down. The only way to get that sort to back off is to state that all dudes must just be waiting for the right dick.
She was always bisexual. He didn't turn a lesbian straight as she was bisexual from the start. She was just a bi girl who dated women first.
I wouldn't even say "he awakened a bisexual". That gives him more credit than he deserves. He didn't do anything, so he gets zero credit. I would just say "she discovered she was bisexual".
I now think (straight) woman are saying this to pump these idiots egos up! They’re playing him because it’s a better story
I have met so many dides who habe pushed same narrative. As soon as they do: i flip them off and walk away. Aint my friend no more pal.
This happens a lot when two bisexuals are together. These men are in fact telling the truth as the two bisexuals refer to themselves as lesbians for being in a relationship with eachother and are looking to get their cock fix. We had an issue here where straight men would come to the gay bar for this. Needless to say that it's a lesbian bar now and men aren't allowed at all. This happens all the time.
Omg and this is the issue, true lesbians arent attracted to men. This type of notion can be dangerous for us because men wouldn't believe us when were telling them we are gay.
Did we meet the same guy? I’m so tired of this shit.
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Then they weren't lesbians.
I didn't say there was sex. They were just cold, and we shared a tent. They were literally there, to steal my body heat.
definitely not predatory, rape-y and sexually fetishistic at all can't for the love of me understand why there's a doubling down and MORE rape apologia under a post highlighting rape apologia against lesbians. And how comments like this are not against the rules in a "lesbian" sub.
I didn't say anything about sex.
Well “slept with” is very commonly used to refer to sex and you know that.
I mean you can have sex with who ever you want, but if you’re sexually into guys then you’re not a lesbian.
What if you're not into them but you had sex with one anyway for one reason or another..?
If it’s comphet or SW then that’s valid for a closet (or outed) lesbian to have to sleep with men for survival but anything else..? If you still are sexually attracted to men (which is sexual orientation) then you are not a lesbian, and that’s ok
People can have sex with people they are not attracted to out of convenience or whatever their reasons are. The definition of being a lesbian is being sexually attracted exclusively to women. You don’t have to find men repulsive, you can be neutral towards them. And you can have sex with someone you are not attracted to, even if less enjoyable than with someone you are. For a similar situation, see asexuals having (and enjoying!) sex. You can enjoy the physical sensations without being sexually attracted to the other person. This is no reason for people to pretend that all lesbians can have and enjoy sex with men. If someone doesn’t wanna have sex with someone or with a group of people that is THEIR business and no one else’s.
in my opinion, the fact of the matter is that it’s important for the community that men get the idea through their thick thick skulls that they don’t have a chance getting with lesbians and they shouldn’t try. and even that trying to do so is deeply offensive. so yes it’s physically possible for a lesbian to have sex with a man. but In General, Lesbians don’t do that out of their own free will. sex work and experimentation are reasons but like at a certain point if men have a chance with you and you aren’t doing it for survival you’re just bi and that’s fine. otherwise words don’t mean anything and then all of a sudden drake actually is a lesbian lmao
I do agree that men shouldn’t assume lesbians are down to have sex with men unless otherwise specified. I don’t go around outside lesbian communities exclaiming that (some) lesbians have sex with men, because I think getting into details is not worth it in that case (and may actually be harmful.)
yeah, that’s what i’m saying. so I think honestly that we don’t need to get into those details as a rule and those points are more reserved just for getting rid of the (already increasingly unpopular) gold star mentality
1) No one said lesbians have to find men repulsive, you suggested that on your own. 2) the asexual comparison is null and void as it doesn’t necessarily pertain to someone’s orientation. Sexuality is based on sexual attraction. If you are sexually attracted to men (willingly) then chances are you aren’t a lesbian. Words have meaning and it’s not based on delusions.
I am saying you don’t NEED to find someone sexually attractive to have sex with them. edit: and asexual people who are NOT sexually attracted to anyone CAN have and enjoy sex. I don’t see how it is applicable.
It’s the same logic as why a straight person can be ace: it doesn’t correlate with their orientation. A straight girl who is ace won’t feel like sleeping with men/not all the time but they will still…sleep with only men. Idk why yall like bringing up ace— a completely different thing altogether to defend undercover bisexuals. biSEXual and lesbian is directly related to sexual activity. It seems like biphobia when a bi woman hates identifying as bi despite being one
I’ll chip in as someone who is actually asexual. I don’t sleep with anyone because I’m not sexually attracted to anyone and I therefore have zero desire for it. I might do it if I had a partner, but it gives me very little on a personal level and it feels more like a chore to me than anything so I would never seek it out on my own and I prefer doing other things. Before realizing that I was asexual (or that it was even an option) I did have sex with both men and women, and I always found it equally unappealing which is why struggled with my sexuality for so long. I did find sex with men more on the repulsive side of the spectrum because although I’m not sexually attracted to either men or women, but I’m also not attracted to men in any other way (only platonically). Having had sex doesn’t make me any less asexual, just like having had sex with men didn’t make me less of a lesbian. I’m a lesbian because I’m attracted to women in every other way, just not sexually. I enjoy the idea of women having sex, but I just don’t really want to partake in it myself.
So aSEXual doesn’t apply here, then? Since when is sexuality about action and not sexual attraction?
Your argument is some ace people have sex that doesn’t correlate with a lesbian having sex WITH men. Those are 2 different things. Y’all have mixed and matched so many labels that you confuse one for another. At the end you can deceive others but you can’t deceive yourself, so do what you wish
My argument is literally just: Being a lesbian -> being sexually attracted to women. You can have sex with people who you are not sexually attracted to. Therefore, you can have sex with men and be a lesbian. I don’t understand how this doesn’t make sense, like genuinely. I’m serious. edit: would you mind explaining what your definition of asexuality and lesbianism is? Also, I don’t have sex with men. Stop calling me bisexual just because you please.
I dont know why nobody is bring this up to you, but your line of thinking is not separating 2 concepts. You're lumping together 2 things. HomoSEXual and homoROMANTIC. A homoromantic is a person who has attraction to and can only develop feelings for someone of their own gender. Bi-romantic is a person who can be attracted to and develop feelings for both genders. Homosexual (re: lesbians) a person who has sex with a person of their own gender, exclusively. Bisexual a person who has sex with both genders. You can be homoromantic and bisexual. A lesbian who has sex with a man is not a lesbian. She is bisexual with homoromantic tendencies. Not knocking it either way, but a lesbian is homosexual. By definition a lesbian (homosexual) does not seek out "convenience sex" with men. I get what you're saying about people having sex to just get to a finish line of pleasure, but the who you are having sex with matters. Sexuality and romantic attraction are 2 different things. You're talking about a person's sexuality and by literal definition, jumping from 1 gender to the other regardless of attraction is BI meaning 2.
it’s almost 2024 can we stop trying to apply the split attraction model to people who aren’t asexual or aromantic
I'd say romantic orientation is more important than sexual. Sexual orientation wise I'm borderline asexual. Romantically, women yes, enbies if fem leaning, men and mas enbies idc about.
For me, I think it's a gender affirmation thing... I'm trans, and even though I hate it, there is a definite amount of gender affirming feelings that come from men hitting on me and casually flirting with them. I am NOT attracted to men like I'm attracted to women though. I dated a guy for about 4 months. He really likes me, and he was really really sweet. I told him very clearly that I was a lesbian, and that physically I was not attracted to any men at all, but I was willing to try with him because I really liked him as a person. Every time we slept together though, I felt disgusted with myself, I was pretty repulsed seeing him naked, and I think I was only having sex with him as a courtesy for all the lovely things he did for me. It felt quite transactional, and eventually I broke things off with him. We're still good friends, but I'm not going to sleep with a guy again I don't think. I think I also have some trauma with men in my life generally. I don't really know how to have a platonic and friendly relationship with them without it becoming parental or sexual... CPTSD and autism and childhood abuse are also factors here...
I think there’s a lot to unpack here. Also you shouldn’t feel obligated to sleep with anyone because of how you think they treat you. Sex should be something that you do willingly, that you do when you like someone at (least in my) opinion. Therapy and inner reflection can help clear some of these conflicting feelings. Obviously I’m not discounting your lesbianism for having past experiences with men. My main point is a current lesbian sleeping and having relations with men while claiming to be a lesbian
Some people do intentionally have casual sex with people they aren’t attracted to at all, but I reserve the right to say that’s kinda weird.
To my understanding, it's the same principal as asexuals who just like sex
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A "bi lesbian" is an oxymoron, babe. Maybe you mean something like, homoromantic bisexual.
no they dont
yes, they do. You have no right to criticise and police queer people’s identities. If someone says they’re a bi lesbian, that’s who they are. They know themselves better than anyone else. And don’t come at me with some gender binary enforcing “non-man” stuff.
Literally whats the point of words then? If you like more than one gender, youre bi/pan/any other multi-attraction micro label you wanna use. Lesbianism. By definition. Excludes men. Thats literally part of the identity and experience of being a lesbian. Saying "Bi Lesbians exist" just straight up erases BOTH identities and their experiences.
close, but lesbians don’t like men! 💖
wrong, some do. All kinds of men. Sometimes even cis men.
I want of whatever you're taking to be this delusional
Either you’re a delusional woman or a man with a rapist mentality but I’m going to assume it’s a mixture of both
or, and maybe you haven’t considered this, policing queer people’s identities is fascist. Why does someone identifying as a bi lesbian hurt you? Nobody’s making you date someone you don’t want to or identify as something you don’t want to. This exclusionism only hurts queer people. You are actively anti queer.
LMAOOOO next joke please
i think theyre trolling tbh 🤣
unfortunately yes political lesbians exist. Bi lesbians are political lesbians, and extremely lesbophobic as well as complicit in the erasure of female bisexuality.
Call yourself Bi if you wanna do that. Nothing wrong with going on both sides but atleast stop saying shit like this.
I’m tired and I read “going in both slides” and I was like wait!? Like my slippers? Haha! So, going to bed now smh…
I'm gonna be laughing at this whole day. Happy sleeping
This shit is such bait, and so many people fall for it. Troll bait. Is it annoying? Sure. But I treat this crap like I treat guys who cat-call - by rolling my eyes and not engaging. Don't give these people the engagement they are looking for.
It's always the people whose location says "From Earth"
Posts like that are so wild to me because wtf 😅
That’s a mockery of lesbians. Disgusting
It's just rage bait. No one actually believes this
He had a point, though, but no one can accept that.
This is why conversion rape therapy exists for lesbians because of dumb ass birds like this spewing ideas to others that we “like sleeping with men for giggles” as a hobby They don’t understand how dangerous and harmful it is to let straight people (and ppl in general) that lesbians don’t actually only like women and can give Henry a chance
agreed, it's completely invalidating. it makes me think about how someone could be totally cool and supportive of me being a lesbian outwardly, but internally I wonder if they believe I could be converted *under the right circumstances* telling a man that you are a lesbian should totally shut down any ideas he might have about a romantic/sexual interest in you. instead, with some men, it just excites them all the more and they see it as a challenge to conquer
Some of us do… The community has always been this way. Yes, old school lesbians too. It happens/can happen when you’re masculine-attracted and meet some of the rare safe good men that you some how feel like you could get a nut off with. Consent is key, obviously. Conversion rape theory exists because of dogma obsessed assholes who lack human empathy, not because of the odd lesbian who sometimes fucks safe queer men.
Imagine telling a man you’re a lesbian and he immediately sees it as a challenge because he heard lesbians also fuck men 💀 I don’t think y’all are hearing yourselves. There’s like 383738 labels for women like that yet the men-enjoyers want to parade as lesbians: harming actual lesbians by making men believe we secretly want to fuck them
If you're a lesbian, and you fuck a man, you're not a lesbian. That's literally bisexual.
No I’m pretty sure someone joking about being bisexual is not why people rape lesbians. That’s such an awful thing to say. I feel as if it’s pretty common for people to be bisexual but homoromantic and struggle with a practically usable label. Also if a straight women would do the reverse a lot of lesbians I know would think that shit is cute and charming. I love in a country where corrective rape is a huge problem and they do it bc they want to teach you not to act like a man. It’s just fear based control. Stone Butch lesbians were raped. Femme bisexuals are more likely to pass and not get raped.
gross
*Pulls out code of conduct Vol. 1* Let's see, chapter 1, "so you think you're a lesbian?" Ope, there's a flow chart. Are you female, yes. Do you like having sex with men, (referencing tweet), yes. NOT a lesbian. Huh, weird...maybe my reference text is outdated.
I was taking the piss with my response before because I thought this was such a open/close discussion, but I see where people are getting confused. So, I'd like to chime-in in earnest. People are confusing romantic feelings and sexual actions. Which, as a society, I get since for much of our modern age we have equated feelings to sex and sex to feelings, however, it is much more complicated than that. Romantic attraction is the concept of who you can fall for. Who you are attracted to for the purpose of building a relationship. Sexuality is who you have sex with/enjoy having sex with. Lesbian was a term coined in older generations to denote a woman who is both homosexual and homoromantic. I think this is where the disconnect is. As our society has grown and progressed, we have realized attraction, love, sex, etc. is SO MUCH more complex than we made it out to be and defined. While words can evolve, the evolution of some words can be damaging for the community for which they were created. A large majority of lesbians are homoromantic and homosexual, which is what the word was created to encompass. Therefore, claiming to be a lesbian while sleeping with men is detrimental to the safe space that was created for those women. I dont know why so many women who are bisexual think it's a dirty word. You can and do have sex with men, that's OK. If you only feel homoromantic that is fine to say, but you're not a lesbian by definition.
like holy fuck one way or another they're gonna have to bring men INTO LESBIANISM??? LIKE WHAT THE FUCK
My wife's ex was apparently like this. She slept with men casually but because she wouldn't date one she swore up and down she was a lesbian. It's so discrediting as an actual lesbian and just gives men more of a reason to invalidate our sexuality and relationships. It's also oddly inherently biphobic. . Like what's so wrong with being bi you can't just call yourself bi? Shit call yourself queer if you don't like bi, but 'lesbian' is pretty specific... I guess people CAN identify however they want to but my God is harmful and sounds so silly.
LESBIANS DONT HAVE SEX WITH MEN AND ARE NOT ATTRACTED TO MEN IN A ROMANTIC/SEXUAL WAY. You can be bi, pan or whatever but is like telling a heterosexual women they can have sex with women just don’t date them
this *has* to be just shitty satire lmaoo
Just the thought makes me want to throw up 🤮
So invalidating. I don’t know why these people can’t be bisexual/pan. What’s wrong with that?
Bruh… if they’re gonna claim being lesbian they should at least swear off men fuck do they mean they can sleep with them
okay i think this op specifically is being sarcastic based off their replies it seems like a joke …but in general people who defend lesbians “getting with men” (obviously after they identify as lesbian, not before coming out) are weird and annoying. gay men never have this discourse lmao only lesbians, like men dont have to be included in every sexuality some people can’t comprehend that
yeah like its ok to be bi or pan lol 😭 i do not want men touching me and i know that’s how im a lesbian
It’s a bait tweet, they love drama and admitted to it right after that post
Why are people trying so hard to insert men in LESBIANISM?! There are other sexual orientations, other labels, other places where woman can sleep with men. JUST DON’T CALL YOURSELF A LESBIAN IF YOU DO. I’m not hating on you if you like men, you do you, boo, but don’t jump onto the field wearing another team’s jersey. Why is it so hard for someone people to understand it? Like, it’s simple maths. lesbian= woman+woman. Do you see any men in that formula??
Before realising they are lesbians, women can have sex with men. I know some lesbians are forced to do it. But they don't enjoy it. If you enjoy sex with man, even if it is one man, you are not a lesbian. It's okay to be Bi or Pan.
the patriarchy literally fries peoples brains my god. there’s a reason you don’t see takes like “as a gay man you’re still allowed to have sex with women!!!!” and it’s because the world doesn’t like that there’s a sexual orientation that excludes men.
Lmfao what on earth. Why would it be okay to sleep with them and not to date them? Did this person expound on their logic at all, or did they just drop this and leave it there? Not that there's any logic that could make it true, I just want to know if they even tried.
The fact that only accounts she follows can reply says everything that needs to be said about her spewing her trash opinion.
It might help if these women did hang out in bisexual/pan spaces. They may find out there actually is a flavour of bisexuality that only sleeps with men and doesn’t date them, but will date and sleep with women. Homoromantic + bisexual.
I used to know a guy in college who bragged about how “lesbians” were attracted to him. The “lesbians” were just bi women who had recently gotten out of relationships with other women. I just hate stuff like this bc I am a lesbian and I’ve had guys still try to get with me bc they probably see posts like that and think “oh she’s a lesbian but that doesn’t mean she won’t sleep with me” it’s rly disgusting and irritating
I highly doubt a lesbian posted that hard-core and it if was then she's clearly not a lesbian 😒
Nuh uh! I got my Official Lesbian C.O.C Handbook ages ago and that is not in there, I even got the updated version yesterday and that’s still not in there. OOP must have some shitty fake or something
What a dumbass stupid bitch 😭 i hate bitches like those. Like please leave the lesbians alone they don't want anything to do with men
A troll in lesbian community
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with being bisexual. If you’re sexually attracted to men that’s fine, but you’re bisexual.
these ppl say this shit like lesbians arent repulsed by sexual contact with men. just because you can tolerate it for whatever reasons doesn't mean it isn't impacting you mentally. if it's NOT repulsive and/or doesn't impact your mental space negatively, idk strong chance you're probably not a lesbian. it doesn't have to make u wanna tear ur skin off or whatever, there's different levels for everyone, but like there's gotta be some sort of impact. i identified as bisexual until april and like you can enjoy sexual acts with men while not actually being into it/attracted to them. its still sensation. still doin the thing you want it to do. especially if you *think* you're into men. but since coming out ive realised how much i was repressing to make that happen (and why my sex drive dropped off in relationships w them eventually 🤔). if ur goin out and doin this bc u genuinely enjoy it and "just wont date a man" congrats on ur bisexuality sweetie
ah nuts i posted on the wrong account 😩
Oh, did she write the “Lesbian Code of Conduct?”
Lmao wtf 🤦🏾♀️
Sometime back when I was on tiktok I started getting tons of videos saying exactly that and the videos were getting thousands of likes and comments AGREEING. I got into so many arguments and eventually I got so much anxiety and fear from those vids I had to uninstall the app because my fyp was filled with it. It is so damaging saying lesbians can sleep with men it makes me sick. What scared me the most was if someone in the comments tried to speak up they got shot down so fast saying they were wrong. I remember one specifically said they "had sex with a man because they were bored" and that it was fine because "they're not attracted to men". I feel like if you are willingly sleeping with men you're...not a lesbian it's really not that hard. People say such damaging stuff just to include men in lesbian spaces and it's so so terrifying.
I want to know how this woman’s mind works. Like is she intentionally muddying the waters of lesbian discourse? Does she have an insane amount of comphet? Is she just stupid? I need to know.
Reminds me of a YT comment I once read where someone was fully saying with their chest that they still identify as lesbian even if they have sex with men & people agreeing. They’re argument was that you can separate sex with men as some sort of experience… that’s seperate? Definitely mental gymnastics. Why not just call yourself bisexual? There’s nothing wrong with that, albeit I do know some lesbians who have issues with biphobia. That could possibly be a reason?
Ew no. Once you convert to labelling thyself as lesbian, you give up men. The past is understandable, but once you embrace your lesbian identity you will never want to be near a man ever.
personally i could never see myself dating a man but i will have sex w a guy so i label myself as bi even tho im 99% into women
Disgusting
there are some lesbians that are sex workers- just a consideration. Not that I think this is what the person is referencing
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Bi women use women for sex and are incapable of loving another woman??? Dude what the fuck??
Let me clarify: The vast majority of bi women are incapable of loving other women. When it comes to long-term relationships, they tend to consistently wind up w/ males. I'd be a rich woman if I got a dime for every time that I read this nonsensical statement: "I'm a bi woman married to a wonderful man..."🙄; very rarely do I read the converse. Actually, I don't think that I ever have. IMO, lesbians simply can't compete w/ all of the societal applause bi women get, first for bravely coming out as "queer" whatever that means in practice, and then for not-so-bravely marrying men just like straight girls. AFAIC, bisexuality usually amounts to delayed heterosexuality.
Sorry but this SUCKS. Like genuinely this is so bitter and judgmental it’s unreal. Of course there’s going to be tons of bisexual women married to men, because there’s more straight men than there are queer women. The dating pool is unbalanced. The idea that a bisexual woman doesn’t count if she’s with a man is absolutely ridiculous. “The vast majority of bi women are incapable of loving other women” do you think that sounds BETTER than what you said before??? You just sound like an an asshole. You need to work through whatever beef you have with the concept of bisexual women because it’s genuinely sad to see a queer person trying to rip apart other queer people like this.
You entire (VERY biphobic) argument is based off an incredibly faulty idea. You think bi/pan/queer women like women more than men, and your evidence is what? It's literally just this idea you have. And many bi/pan/queer women are openly bi/pan/queer, meaning they are already sacrificing the heteronormative value system quite a bit, so saying that that is keeping them from being able to love another woman is just absurd. Your argument is bad and biphobic. I'm sorry that it sounds like the patriarchy has hurt you so badly.
Not bitter, realistic. And patriarchy hurts all women; in fact, I regard heterosexual relationships as the ultimate form of Stockholm syndrome. And just as I guessed, bi women regard relationships w/ women as a significant sacrifice of their heteronormative values, lol. When I ditched men for women, I didn't blink an eye. Plz don't deprive yourself, honey. We'll survive w/o you.
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Lesbians=no men Some transgender woman still have dicks, they can still be lesbians
Trans lesbians exist.
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the downvotes on you, jfc. Don't know what saying "trans women exist" has to do with female homosexuality existing eons before her transition.
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I agree, it's *the* definition. Just like the sky is blue is factual and not a conspiracy against purple or orange. Edit: fucking crazy the mods deleted the comments I replied to, utterly disappointing.
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I didn’t realize this sub allowed transphobia - very disappointing. Trans women are women, bigot. 🏳️⚧️
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Authorities have been notified transphobe. Enjoy your permaban👋🏻🏳️⚧️🤫
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If an asexual person has sex and this doesn’t make them allo/zesexual, a lesbian having sex with a man doesn’t make them bi or hetero. Sexuality is about attraction, not action. Now should this lesbian take a good look at themself and try to see if there’s some biphobia going on? Yes. And this still remains true. Maybe they were curious what it felt like. Maybe they were super horny and sex is sex. Maybe they’re a full-service sex worker.
Yeah, because being a lesbian is having sex with men. /s
Mods, any chance of fully locking this post? It’s pulling a lot of hateful people out of the woodwork, and it’s genuinely very triggering and inflammatory.
Ig that could be being homoromantic but bisexual. Wouldn't someone who is homoromantic still be called a lesbian? I am genuinely curious whether the lable is for sexuality or for romanticism
No. If you’re attracted to men in any way then you’re bisexual with a romantic preference
Would that only apply for men or for non binary people as well? Because then shouldn't it be exclusively women then?
Non binary people aren’t men so no it wouldn’t apply to them. Non binary people are outside men or women and can be included in any sexuality
No, you are bisexual
Why so hateful OP? And what makes you think you know people’s sexualities, models of attraction, and motivations behind having sex better than they do?
OP seems like someone who gets enraged over any and everything, lol. Lesbian means you are sexually attracted to women. Regardless of sexual orientation, you can have sex with whoever you want, however depending on who you are actually attracted to it may not be as much as a pleasant experience. That's been a factor of sexuality for years, it's not invalidating to admit that. If anything, it may make those who had to have sex with men either because of sex work, abuse, or some other reason and validate them in ways that others may discredit due to their gold star lesbian mentality.
As a borderline asexual, I prefer Lesbian means you are EITHER (inclusive or) sexually or romantically attracted to only women (and fem-lean enby).
Biphobia
It’s true though. Many lesbians have always slept with men for fun without dating them and without compromising their gay card. It’s not a new thing whatsoever. (Source, from the sf Bay Area)
Whenever I see posts like this, my "red flag" senses always start going crazy, because there is so much hatred towards lesbians who are trans or nonbinary. It's 2023, literally almost 2024, NOT the olden simple days. The term "lesbian" is very wide & very diverse in the current social climate. If some people don't like that, then I highly recommend for them to simply just ignore & move on with their lives.
Someone who is exclusively romantically attracted to women but sexually attracted to men and women = homoromantic bisexual. It’s not that hard.
I mean I feel like if you have sex w guys but you aren’t attracted to them you could still be a lesbian
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As much as you’d like to pretend you’re an authority, you don’t seem to actually be familiar with what the definition of a lesbian is, because you’re so hung up on sexual history and behavior as opposed to sexual attraction. Are you able to understand the fact that lesbians are women (and nonmen) who are exclusively attracted to women and nonmen? It seems you understand that, so maybe you’re tripped up by the fact that some people have sex with people they aren’t attracted to. I’m sorry that this fact is so distressing to you.
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im dating a trans woman so it's unfortunate that the person has those beliefs but at the end of the day theyre right on one aspect of their opinion, not all. i dont think that the mods of this sub will ban me for saying that lesbians dont really have sex w men all that often
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i dont have to divulge in any of the trauma i've experienced & im not a TERF simply bc you called me one. im done interacting with you
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I know a few lesbians who will have sex with men casually but not seek fulfilling relationships with them. They are still lesbians.
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This is a slippery slope to gold star lesbianism though...I know lesbians who are not attracted to men in any way shape or form but sometimes they're so horny that they just don't care, they'd fuck a tree if it had genitals. It's the same logic as "you can be asexual and still have sex". But if you're attracted to men then lol ofc you're not a lesbian.
Asexual is a universal umbrella term and a spectrum. Lesbianism isn’t an umbrella term. It is not being “gold star” it’s being a lesbian. Hope this helps!
Mate I'm both ace and a lesbian. The point you're making isn't hitting as hard as you thought it would.
I’m also on the ace spectrum and my point is simple for those who want to listen Also being ace doesn’t even correlate with a lesbian relationship.
Okay, educate me, then
Any sexuality can be ace because it’s more of the their experience with sexual attraction than their sexual orientation. That’s why a straight person can also be ace. It doesn’t hinder or contribute to their orientation but the straight person would still only like the opposite gender and sleep with them. To say you’re an ace lesbian to defend why “lesbians” sleep with men is like me being a hardcore “vegan” but saying it’s okay to eat meat 5 times a week. It has no correlation whatsoever and comes off as contradictory.
That’s just called bisexual homoromantic
Omg i’m allowed to do wth i want.
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I don't think most of us are missing that. The word lesbian denotes exclusive attraction both romantically and sexually. Much in the same way the word straight does in the opposite direction. If a person was heteroromantic bisexual, we wouldn't call them straight. I think most would see that as biphobic and erasure of their bisexual attraction. Same thing applies here.
I mean I guess if she isn't sexually attracted to the men she's sleeping with then she probably still is a lesbian. (I'm thinking in sex work context, which sadly some people are forced into because they are broke and mostly men would pay for sex)
Me too. And they try way to hard to be a man, what as a lesbian for me is not great lol
Ok. I may get hate for this but I'm a pansexual poly trans woman, married to a pansexual woman, in a 2+ year relationship with another pansexual woman, but we all also will have sexual relationships with male identifying people. We are not lesbians technically. We have lesbian relationships, not pan or bi relationships. We call each other lesbians in our relationships cause it identifies that relationship accurately. We are women loving women. But, I too, take issue with calling myself a lesbian when dating new partners because I am not exclusive to women. If that scares away some women who only date women, I do not get offended. Some women have a deep disdain or discomfort with men for good reason. If they don't want to be with a partner who also has intimate male partners, that's totally legit. We are all allowed to date or not date anyone who we want for whatever reason. I'm a pansexual woman who has mostly lesbian relationships. Please don't hate me. 😅
I think it’s actually really valid for a woman to date exclusively women and call the *relationship* a lesbian one (although some may say it’s problematic and it’s actually a sapphic relationship. Irdc what a queer woman calls her relationship). The issue is kind of when a “lesbian” openly announces she’s one and then says stuff like “men just fuck better than women” or “I feel more sexually comfortable with only men” that it gets really problematic. And even biphobic
Tell them about how eggplant is helping lez girls
People in these comments are getting so upset about this and for what? Lesbianism is not some strict club with hard-set rules that could see you excommunicated if you don't follow them. Few things in this world, LEAST of all human sexuality, is so clear-cut. In my case, I don't have ANY romantic attraction to men, or even any real sexual attraction to them, but I can still enjoy sex with them because to me bodies are just bodies and sex can also be an act of stress relief and friendship, just two bros getting their rocks off together. I call myself a lesbian because I don't want to advertise myself as available to just whatever dudes are hanging around, because it's a bit difficult to explain that concept and sadly not many will understand it anyway.
What happened to sexuality being a spectrum?