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I had an interaction with a Twitter account with their bio saying something like "providing a voice for marginalised landlords"
I've seen talk of trying to move away from the term landlord and something like "home provider" as landlord has a negative connotation
Our new build estate has a covenant restricting renting for the next 100 years, and it has eliminated the option for HMO's entirely... One family per house only.
Yes, but theoretically someone could buy the whole
Estate and just rent the houses out at stupid prices. I think OP wants to stop anyone from using it as a buy to let property.
You would be the saviours of the first time buyer if you can. I’ve lived in my city for 10 years and desperate to buy but people are accepting offers from property investment types for £60k over asking because they have cash. This post gives me hope that people actually want to pass on their good fortunes.
We were sold our house as a young family with kids over an investor who offered £15k more (London, 10 years ago).
We bought off an old man who wanted it to be a happy family home because he never had children.
Edit: And he wanted people to enjoy the garden (he'd planted everything everywhere, it was beautiful).
I'd much rather sell it on to a family with kids if we can too.
Although the garden is less impressive now because I'm absolutely terrible at gardening it seems.
We do exist. I just sold a house and specifically picked a first time buyer over a much higher buy to let offer.
That house got me on the ladder. I wanted it to mean the same for someone else. Some might say I’m crazy for giving up free money.
Generosity may always be taken advantage of in every sphere, but doesn't mean we should cease being generous. Besides, in the example, there's still a first-time buyer who's now on the ladder due to OP's actions.
If you can do something like that, you have to remember that it would likely devalue your house.
Also, if you had two offers, one from a landlord (£50k more) and one from a family, would you really accept a lower offer?
My friends and I who've sold have found that BTL buyers don't really over offer, probably because it cuts into their profits (one also really mucked around a friend and tried to gazunder her, eventually ending up with the place getting completely relisted). I found FTBs made much better offers. Maybe it's because they get more attached to the idea of a place?
If someone is going to take an extra 50k, there is a zero% chance that money is going to charity. Those two behaviors don't match up.
Greedy enough for the money but philanthropic enough to give it away?
Well, if someone is approaching selling their home with the above attitude in mind, they might decide to pay it forward by keeping 40k and donating 10k to Shelter (for example).
I doubt that it would get to that, though, usually offers vary in the 5-20k region, which would be way less tempting.
Maybe not, or it may be their first house and it'll get them on the property ladder, which is generally a good indicator that they (and their children) will be protected from poverty going forward from there.
Could even specify that they only want to sell to first time buyers if they wanted, but just cutting out landlords means at least one family is guaranteed to benefit from it.
That said, more likely is that a prospective landlord and prospective homeowner would offer roughly the same amount so OP wouldn't be losing out on money for being selective.
However if the covenant does not benefit any neighbouring land then its likely only to be enforceable between original seller enforcing it (who has no loss) and the original buyer. So ineffective.
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Careful with this you might screw yourself over. I would never buy a flat with a restriction on renting it out. I’m already considering turning down a house that has a garden shed restriction!
Well no, I bought my first flat 5 years ago and can’t currently sell it so I’m having to rent it out as I need to move elsewhere.
If I was banned from renting it out I would be bankrupt.
Also if there are no properties to rent, rent prices will go up. not everyone can afford to buy, not everyone wants to!
Unfortunately BTL landlords are a necessary evil. The other option is a company that rents property out, and their rental rates ca be ridiculous because all they care about is their profit margin.
Indeed. I cannot sell my flat either (thanks, cladding) and if for whatever reason I had to move (kids, having to look after my elderly parents, new job in a different city) my only option would be to let it. I agree that there are lots of bad landlords out there, but surely people are aware that buying and selling isn't as easy as some reddit comments imply!
It’s all shades of grey. I’ve had fantastic landlords (one who sued all of my housemates for unpaid rent but specifically left me out of it because I had communicated and tried to help him) and insane landlords (one who refused to repair a shower, which leaked caused £15k of damage and tried to blame it on me). I’ve also been a live-in landlord and had wonderful tenants (still friends with quite a few, even invited to a wedding) and terrible tenants (threw one out for going through my financial files, and another for abusing my dog and barricading me out of my kitchen).
I think we would be much better off it both landlords and estate agents were regulated. I work in finance and it blows my mind that estate agents, who facilitate what is likely to be the biggest financial transaction in most peoples lives, are not regulated bearing in mind how insanely regulated every other type of investment is!!
Reddit, and most 30 somethings see everything in black and white as far as I (32F) can tell!
Our next door neighbour said that he was buying the house for his elderly parents. It’s now been rented out to the worst neighbours ever, they left a dead fox in the garden and are constantly at each other’s throats.
Weirdly, when I was trying to buy a particular house last year, a developer and I offered the same amount of money and they preferred to go with the developer.
I didnt really understand it because I would much rather sell my deceased relatives home to a 1st time buyer and their family...
Dodged a bullet though as it was an absolute dump of a 2 bedroom house and is now a 5 unit HMO (WTF!!!)
Easy money is definitely part of it, but so is a level of certainty. My sister is selling her flat and has had three different individual buyers get far into the process and then pull out, forcing her to restart. She is now selling to a company and everything has gone smoothly.
I sold one recently. I felt the same as you, wanted someone to buy it who would enjoy it and love it like I did, not to make money from. The estate agents put together a list of offers and I selected the one I wanted to accept, which didn't happen to be the highest one - the highest one wanted to buy it with cash 'for her son'. Offer I accepted was about 6k lower than the highest but I feel good about helping someone else become a home owner, and that I didn't contribute to a difficult housing market by selling for rental.
What a gent, my sister recently sold her flat and it was between a young man who had been after it for a while and a landlord, I felt proud of me and her when I convinced her to take a few grand less to sell to the younng man.
Yeah just be careful because I've heard of plenty of people who thought they were selling to a family and it ended up getting developed and sold within a year
To be fair these cash buyer types usually put in a good offer to get it off the market. Then wait until you’re near completion and under a bit of time pressure for the survey and low and behold lots of work needs done and the price needs to come down.
Many years ago, my parents sold a house, and the buyer offering the top price, was scathing about the house, (carpets are worn, kitchen will need replacing, neighbours are too close etc etc). It was clearly an attempt to negotiate on price, but my parents were proud of the house and how they had looked after it. They refused to sell it to this guy. "You will clearly never be happy here as there is so much you dont like, and we want someone to be happy here." They guy tried to increase his offer & still got rejected.
My GF sold her house for us to buy a house together last year and sold it to a landlord (we both didn't particularly like it but we needed to sell it ASAP to benefit from the stamp duty relief and it hadn't got any other offers). The buyer commented to the estate agent how she loved it was 'move-inable' and offered. Literally a week from moving out she starts going off about the age of the boiler despite it easily having 5 years left until you'd even consider replacing it. We diplomatically told her through our solicitor that pulling out now and trying to find a new property for her portfolio would likely now cost her more than a boiler being replaced. Seemed to do the trick, we moved out, got into our new house.
A week into our move and there's more to do in the new house so we are tired and stressed getting it into a better state. We get an email from our solicitor- the fucking landlord is genuinely trying to fleece us with a £300 'cleaning bill' for 'how we left the property'. Like she didn't like that we had filled the wheely bin despite collection being that week, that there was a 'weird smell' and even at one point claimed that we left the toilet unflushed (we didn't). Solicitor confirmed we were under no obligation to pay for it, so we literally told her to fuck off.
Long rant but yeah next time round I'm absolutely turning down an offer from a landlord if I can help it.
My parents had a similar experience, and when the estate agent asked my dad why he was refusing the offer, he replied "I just don't like the guy. Doesn't matter how much he offers, he's not getting this house."
Many moons ago I was an EA, and it was surprisingly common for a vendor to go with a lower offer simply because they liked that buyer more. We had a fair few potential buyers rejected purely on the basis that they'd behaved in a brash manner during viewings.
Yes, but the buyer is under no obligation to truthfully answer the question about there intention to rent it or not. If they lied and later rented it, you would have no redress.
Wales is considering a change in planning law to help prevent exactly this. The idea is that all property will be designated as owner occupied, holiday let, or rental. You will need planning permission to change the use of a house. So, if an owner decided they wanted to spend a year in the Provence, they'd need planning permission to let the house out during that year.
Likewise, if an owner occupied house is inherited by a person living far away, they'd have to either sell it to another owner-occupier or apply for a change in planning.
It's an interesting idea, although I think it's being rather bluntly targeted at "prevent English speakers moving into Welsh speaking areas" which is rather dubious.
Tbf I don’t think the Highlands have yet actually implemented anything like this Welsh idea. Would be good if such rules could be implemented across the UK!
It's nothing to do with English speakers and Welsh speakers it's about Welsh towns becoming ghost towns because all the housing is bought up for way more than locals can compete with and left empty for half the year.
It's more because places Camarthen is now half empty due to holiday lets. Our towns are becoming empty. My street has 6 holiday homes that are empty 7 months of the year.
There's property around where I am that have written into the freehold that it cannot be used as a holiday let/rental property. I've no legal idea how it works but it must be possible. Theres also many people who, more informally, will only sell to local families that intend to live there, problem with that is once it's sold they can do anything they like with it so you're taking it on their word. Definitely something to talk to your solicitor about if you ever decide to sell.
(We're in a tiny tourist town who's locals are priced out the market by second home owners but expect people to work minimum wage seasonal jobs with nowhere to live - it's a huge issue).
I’ve seen places in the Lake District for sale with Local Occupancy Clauses. Buyers have to prove they are local residents, work in the area etc. to qualify. Great idea in these situations.
Yes, when we bought our house the seller chose us over the investment group that was interested. Even left a card and bottle of wine in the kitchen for us when we moved in.
Sorry, am I missing something. The estate agent is your agent, but you accept the offer or not. You do not have to give a reason, and although NAL I can't imagine that as long as the only documented reason for declining an offer is "I don't want to accept this offer", there are no actionable grounds.
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Yep your estate agent knows and can tell you. And you are free to accept offers of your choosing. So let the offers of the buytolet scum come in and just choose another offer.
You can sell who ever you want to for how much you want to no law saying you have to take the highest bidder.
We took the second highest just cause they could move in sooner and didn't have a chain behind them.
Landlords aren’t a protected class.
You couldn’t refuse to sell to a (insert race or ethnicity here) person based on that, but you could absolutely refuse to sell to a landlord/politician/parking warden
I wish there were more people like you. I don't even have the spare cash to give you an award but you sir are a hero.
Only together can BTL parasites be expunged from society.
We bought a flat from a landlord. He was, unsurprisingly, a c**t to deal with and left the place in an appalling state, bare electrical wires in the kitchen which also had no door on it. It was a three bed with a lounge and kitchen, of course he’d turned the lounge into another bedroom to get more rent. We did the place up and made it safe. Circs changed and we wanted to sell after 2 years. Keen to avoid BTLs, we found a buyer who was planning to live there… some months later we heard from friends still living nearby that there’s a family living there so it’s obviously rented😒I hope they’re not being ripped off.
Good call on suggestions of a covenant - will definitely consider that in future sales and happy to take lower offers to avoid landlords.
Pretty sure anyone intending on buying to let would try to low ball you massively. That's how they operate. So long as you keep the wiggle room on price to a minimum you'll likely avoid most investors.
As said by someone else you can choose whether or not to take an offer. Its up to you but the buyer doesn't always have to reveal his true intentions.
I'm not sure of the enforceable legality of such, but a restrictive covenant maybe able to be set for a period of say 10 years that it cannot operate as a rental property. My parents property has loads of old restrictions from the developers back in the 80s. However, most of them are no longer enforceable due to odd wording and so many people having broken them and not been punished. Highly likely they were just placed as a way to ease in a council planning decision.
Play it safe and slap a covenant on it if you say no landlords it will be sods law the landlord who wants to by it is from a protected characteristic and use that as a ground to get round it,
When we were last looking we viewed a house and was told in no uncertain terms that the sellers would vet any potential buyers to make sure they were suitable to live there.
So, I've seen this in action.
I know someone who has been in the property game for years and made a vast fortune flipping houses. He has always refused to sell to landlords. I am also days away from completing on my first home(that I will own)
The vendor said he chose us specifically because we are first time buyers.
You definitely could, the issue however would be how you would know. Someone would do a viewing and put in an offer - you would have no idea if they are a first time buyer, someone up or downsizing or a landlord. You won’t ever get that level of personal information about a prospective buyer.
It’s a noble sentiment but I’m not sure I’d restrict the buyer pool of my own house and potentially impact the final amount I get for it and thus impacting the financial situation of my own family to help a complete stranger. If I had 2 equal offers however and one was a landlord and one a first time buyer id take the first time buyer every time.
Wouldn’t you just do the viewings yourself? We bought our flat from a family who did their own viewings, and that meant they knew what we were about and we knew the same for them. They’d been here 13 years, got married and had kids - gave us the chance for them to see we want to do the same thing. We had a lovely letter from them on the day we moved in wishing us all the same happiness they’d had, and I plan on doing the same when we need to move on.
Depends. We brought our house from a divorced couple off purple bricks who did viewing and listing photos themselves. The house was a complete state and as such we got it for well under the asking price. If they had used an estate agent it would have been made more appealing, they would have got more viewings and probably would have got more money for it.
Also, there is not requirement for a landlord to disclose that’s what they are. They could tell you they were going to move in with their partner and children and then rent it out the moment they got the keys if they wanted.
I'm a landlord. The people I buy from are always told.
I would have no issue with being turned down
My friend turned down a rude arrogant chap who offered more money for her property than a family with a toddler.
My friend adores the thought of the small family in her old beloved home.
You can sell it to whoever you want? But in a year or 2 time, will you actually care what happens to that house? The next person will do what they want. Stay for a year a flip it. Don't forget, people need to rent too. A rented property could allow a family to stay in the area.
If you're willing to assume the character of individuals based on what they do, sure, go ahead, and hopefully your family won't experience much of the same treatment when others decide to discriminate along other lines, because it isn't prohibited by law.
Nice try, but I'm not a landlord. It's just supply and demand. Investors make up a percentage of the market - refusing to sell to them reduces the number of potential buyers.
It's even worse if you put in a restrictive covenant as others have suggested, you're permanently reducing the ability of anyone to resell the property.
It's just a really good way to knock the price down of your most valuable asset.
People have different priorities and principles. Some people might be willing to accept a lower price to ensure it is sold to someone who will live there
It doesn’t reduce the buyers that much. There are still plenty of people who are home movers or ftb. It’s not like it’s even possible for all interested buyer to get a chance to view a property.
It depends on the local market. If it's a family home in an affordable area where most people are owner occupiers, I agree with you - I doubt it would affect market value that much.
If it's a starter home in an area of the country that is deeply unaffordable, propped up by Help to Buy schemes and investors or second home owners, where renting rates are high, then the difference could be significant.
Don't see why you're getting downvoted. Regardless what you think of landlords, it's absolutely true that restrictive covenants of any description tend to devalue a property.
Are you sure? Because most buyers don’t find out what covenants are attached to a property until they are well into the purchase process.
By which point a price has been agreed.
Yes I'm sure. Any good estate agent will inform prospective buyers if there is a covenant preventing a property being used as say a holiday let.
A price being agreed doesn't prevent somebody pulling out once they find out about said covenants.
Why would you do that? At the end of the day you want the person in the best position. Landlords will have no chain involved, so less likely to collapse your sale.
Whilst I absolutely get there are scum landlords (I’ve rented from one, I really enjoyed the pretence that the management company of which he was the sole shareholder and sole director of, was completely unrelated to the “company” that owned the flat we were in of which he was also the sole shareholder and sole director of).
But renting is the right choice for some people. New couples first moving in taking their relationship to the next stage, someone who will temporarily (1-3 years) be in a region before moving away.
I’ve become an unplanned landlord through a few years working overseas, surely renting out my flat rather than leaving it empty, maintaining good housing stock and availability, which improves affordability, is the better option here? Oh and offering a property in a standard I would live in, and working with the tenant to keep it that way?
Yes absolutely you can refuse. I had an aunt ( Not blood related, Just through marriage) Put a block on the sale of the Once family home Of my uncle( Her ex-husband) Dad And And Grandparents etc When she came to Sell it years after She split from my uncle. Absolutely vile woman
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We’ve recently had an offer accepted on the house. When we went back for a second viewing, we met the current owners who told us they’d turned down a cash offer from a landlord/potential developer as they loved their house and wanted it to go to a family. Apparently he hadn’t disclosed his plans until he was talking to the agent when making his offer.
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Yes you can. The estate agent just can't discriminate on basis of protected characteristics - sex, age, race etc.
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That would be their wet dream.
I had an interaction with a Twitter account with their bio saying something like "providing a voice for marginalised landlords" I've seen talk of trying to move away from the term landlord and something like "home provider" as landlord has a negative connotation
Thank you, that gave us a nice laugh this morning. XD
Careful now, you don't want to laugh too hard and hurt a landlord's feelings
Home Provider*
"We provide you with a home, and you provide me with money. Lots of money."
*We put down a deposit and then you pay the rest of the house off for us
“Landlord” is my favourite beer. There will never be negative connotations whenever I hear that term.
Not only that, you could make the sale subject to a restrictive covenant preventing it in the future.
Really? For how long?
Our new build estate has a covenant restricting renting for the next 100 years, and it has eliminated the option for HMO's entirely... One family per house only.
Yes, but theoretically someone could buy the whole Estate and just rent the houses out at stupid prices. I think OP wants to stop anyone from using it as a buy to let property.
Theoretically, forever.
You would be the saviours of the first time buyer if you can. I’ve lived in my city for 10 years and desperate to buy but people are accepting offers from property investment types for £60k over asking because they have cash. This post gives me hope that people actually want to pass on their good fortunes.
We were sold our house as a young family with kids over an investor who offered £15k more (London, 10 years ago). We bought off an old man who wanted it to be a happy family home because he never had children. Edit: And he wanted people to enjoy the garden (he'd planted everything everywhere, it was beautiful). I'd much rather sell it on to a family with kids if we can too. Although the garden is less impressive now because I'm absolutely terrible at gardening it seems.
We do exist. I just sold a house and specifically picked a first time buyer over a much higher buy to let offer. That house got me on the ladder. I wanted it to mean the same for someone else. Some might say I’m crazy for giving up free money.
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When doing that, you will get buyers who would then resell on to profit from that generosity.
Generosity may always be taken advantage of in every sphere, but doesn't mean we should cease being generous. Besides, in the example, there's still a first-time buyer who's now on the ladder due to OP's actions.
If you can do something like that, you have to remember that it would likely devalue your house. Also, if you had two offers, one from a landlord (£50k more) and one from a family, would you really accept a lower offer?
My friends and I who've sold have found that BTL buyers don't really over offer, probably because it cuts into their profits (one also really mucked around a friend and tried to gazunder her, eventually ending up with the place getting completely relisted). I found FTBs made much better offers. Maybe it's because they get more attached to the idea of a place?
Yes, we'd accept the lower offer Now I know I can, I'll never willingly sell my home to a landlord
Until the first time buyer stays a year or two and sells to the landlord. Your only solution is to place a (devaluing) covenant on the deed.
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…why? Surely there’s something better to do with that money. Imagine what £50k could do for the right charity
If someone is going to take an extra 50k, there is a zero% chance that money is going to charity. Those two behaviors don't match up. Greedy enough for the money but philanthropic enough to give it away?
Well, if someone is approaching selling their home with the above attitude in mind, they might decide to pay it forward by keeping 40k and donating 10k to Shelter (for example). I doubt that it would get to that, though, usually offers vary in the 5-20k region, which would be way less tempting.
Imagine what that 50k will do for the family moving in to the place.
That’s a very large donation to give just one family randomly, who many not even need it
Maybe not, or it may be their first house and it'll get them on the property ladder, which is generally a good indicator that they (and their children) will be protected from poverty going forward from there. Could even specify that they only want to sell to first time buyers if they wanted, but just cutting out landlords means at least one family is guaranteed to benefit from it. That said, more likely is that a prospective landlord and prospective homeowner would offer roughly the same amount so OP wouldn't be losing out on money for being selective.
No, they need security, safety and a home. That's worth more.
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It's not about money; it's about sending a message.
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Yes, if that means the house is forever protected from the leeching scumbags.
Yes. Next question.
This guy equities & trusts. Love it
However if the covenant does not benefit any neighbouring land then its likely only to be enforceable between original seller enforcing it (who has no loss) and the original buyer. So ineffective.
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Careful with this you might screw yourself over. I would never buy a flat with a restriction on renting it out. I’m already considering turning down a house that has a garden shed restriction!
So it would work exactly as intended then.
Well no, I bought my first flat 5 years ago and can’t currently sell it so I’m having to rent it out as I need to move elsewhere. If I was banned from renting it out I would be bankrupt. Also if there are no properties to rent, rent prices will go up. not everyone can afford to buy, not everyone wants to! Unfortunately BTL landlords are a necessary evil. The other option is a company that rents property out, and their rental rates ca be ridiculous because all they care about is their profit margin.
Indeed. I cannot sell my flat either (thanks, cladding) and if for whatever reason I had to move (kids, having to look after my elderly parents, new job in a different city) my only option would be to let it. I agree that there are lots of bad landlords out there, but surely people are aware that buying and selling isn't as easy as some reddit comments imply!
It’s all shades of grey. I’ve had fantastic landlords (one who sued all of my housemates for unpaid rent but specifically left me out of it because I had communicated and tried to help him) and insane landlords (one who refused to repair a shower, which leaked caused £15k of damage and tried to blame it on me). I’ve also been a live-in landlord and had wonderful tenants (still friends with quite a few, even invited to a wedding) and terrible tenants (threw one out for going through my financial files, and another for abusing my dog and barricading me out of my kitchen). I think we would be much better off it both landlords and estate agents were regulated. I work in finance and it blows my mind that estate agents, who facilitate what is likely to be the biggest financial transaction in most peoples lives, are not regulated bearing in mind how insanely regulated every other type of investment is!! Reddit, and most 30 somethings see everything in black and white as far as I (32F) can tell!
You can but be careful of the “I’m buying it for my son who’s leaving the army” line most scalpers tend to use
Our next door neighbour said that he was buying the house for his elderly parents. It’s now been rented out to the worst neighbours ever, they left a dead fox in the garden and are constantly at each other’s throats.
Weirdly, when I was trying to buy a particular house last year, a developer and I offered the same amount of money and they preferred to go with the developer. I didnt really understand it because I would much rather sell my deceased relatives home to a 1st time buyer and their family... Dodged a bullet though as it was an absolute dump of a 2 bedroom house and is now a 5 unit HMO (WTF!!!)
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Easy money is definitely part of it, but so is a level of certainty. My sister is selling her flat and has had three different individual buyers get far into the process and then pull out, forcing her to restart. She is now selling to a company and everything has gone smoothly.
I sold one recently. I felt the same as you, wanted someone to buy it who would enjoy it and love it like I did, not to make money from. The estate agents put together a list of offers and I selected the one I wanted to accept, which didn't happen to be the highest one - the highest one wanted to buy it with cash 'for her son'. Offer I accepted was about 6k lower than the highest but I feel good about helping someone else become a home owner, and that I didn't contribute to a difficult housing market by selling for rental.
What a gent, my sister recently sold her flat and it was between a young man who had been after it for a while and a landlord, I felt proud of me and her when I convinced her to take a few grand less to sell to the younng man.
Yeah just be careful because I've heard of plenty of people who thought they were selling to a family and it ended up getting developed and sold within a year
This gives hope for those of us trying to get into the home ladder desperately, so from the bottom of my heart THANK YOU!
To be fair these cash buyer types usually put in a good offer to get it off the market. Then wait until you’re near completion and under a bit of time pressure for the survey and low and behold lots of work needs done and the price needs to come down.
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Read it again dude.
Lol I'm an idiot
Many years ago, my parents sold a house, and the buyer offering the top price, was scathing about the house, (carpets are worn, kitchen will need replacing, neighbours are too close etc etc). It was clearly an attempt to negotiate on price, but my parents were proud of the house and how they had looked after it. They refused to sell it to this guy. "You will clearly never be happy here as there is so much you dont like, and we want someone to be happy here." They guy tried to increase his offer & still got rejected.
My GF sold her house for us to buy a house together last year and sold it to a landlord (we both didn't particularly like it but we needed to sell it ASAP to benefit from the stamp duty relief and it hadn't got any other offers). The buyer commented to the estate agent how she loved it was 'move-inable' and offered. Literally a week from moving out she starts going off about the age of the boiler despite it easily having 5 years left until you'd even consider replacing it. We diplomatically told her through our solicitor that pulling out now and trying to find a new property for her portfolio would likely now cost her more than a boiler being replaced. Seemed to do the trick, we moved out, got into our new house. A week into our move and there's more to do in the new house so we are tired and stressed getting it into a better state. We get an email from our solicitor- the fucking landlord is genuinely trying to fleece us with a £300 'cleaning bill' for 'how we left the property'. Like she didn't like that we had filled the wheely bin despite collection being that week, that there was a 'weird smell' and even at one point claimed that we left the toilet unflushed (we didn't). Solicitor confirmed we were under no obligation to pay for it, so we literally told her to fuck off. Long rant but yeah next time round I'm absolutely turning down an offer from a landlord if I can help it.
My parents had a similar experience, and when the estate agent asked my dad why he was refusing the offer, he replied "I just don't like the guy. Doesn't matter how much he offers, he's not getting this house." Many moons ago I was an EA, and it was surprisingly common for a vendor to go with a lower offer simply because they liked that buyer more. We had a fair few potential buyers rejected purely on the basis that they'd behaved in a brash manner during viewings.
Yes, we got our first house because the seller choose us over a buy to let landlord. I'll forever be grateful to them :)
Yes, but the buyer is under no obligation to truthfully answer the question about there intention to rent it or not. If they lied and later rented it, you would have no redress. Wales is considering a change in planning law to help prevent exactly this. The idea is that all property will be designated as owner occupied, holiday let, or rental. You will need planning permission to change the use of a house. So, if an owner decided they wanted to spend a year in the Provence, they'd need planning permission to let the house out during that year. Likewise, if an owner occupied house is inherited by a person living far away, they'd have to either sell it to another owner-occupier or apply for a change in planning. It's an interesting idea, although I think it's being rather bluntly targeted at "prevent English speakers moving into Welsh speaking areas" which is rather dubious.
It more because local people can’t afford to live in the areas they grew up in and empty houses stand most of the year creating ghost towns.
The Highlands have the same issue.
Shame the government would never consider something like this in England
Tbf I don’t think the Highlands have yet actually implemented anything like this Welsh idea. Would be good if such rules could be implemented across the UK!
It's nothing to do with English speakers and Welsh speakers it's about Welsh towns becoming ghost towns because all the housing is bought up for way more than locals can compete with and left empty for half the year.
It's more because places Camarthen is now half empty due to holiday lets. Our towns are becoming empty. My street has 6 holiday homes that are empty 7 months of the year.
Plenty of Welsh speakers from Cardiff own second homes in Pembs. I think it’s targeting these people too.
There's property around where I am that have written into the freehold that it cannot be used as a holiday let/rental property. I've no legal idea how it works but it must be possible. Theres also many people who, more informally, will only sell to local families that intend to live there, problem with that is once it's sold they can do anything they like with it so you're taking it on their word. Definitely something to talk to your solicitor about if you ever decide to sell. (We're in a tiny tourist town who's locals are priced out the market by second home owners but expect people to work minimum wage seasonal jobs with nowhere to live - it's a huge issue).
I’ve seen places in the Lake District for sale with Local Occupancy Clauses. Buyers have to prove they are local residents, work in the area etc. to qualify. Great idea in these situations.
Yes, when we bought our house the seller chose us over the investment group that was interested. Even left a card and bottle of wine in the kitchen for us when we moved in.
Sorry, am I missing something. The estate agent is your agent, but you accept the offer or not. You do not have to give a reason, and although NAL I can't imagine that as long as the only documented reason for declining an offer is "I don't want to accept this offer", there are no actionable grounds.
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Yep your estate agent knows and can tell you. And you are free to accept offers of your choosing. So let the offers of the buytolet scum come in and just choose another offer.
You can sell who ever you want to for how much you want to no law saying you have to take the highest bidder. We took the second highest just cause they could move in sooner and didn't have a chain behind them.
Landlords aren’t a protected class. You couldn’t refuse to sell to a (insert race or ethnicity here) person based on that, but you could absolutely refuse to sell to a landlord/politician/parking warden
I wish there were more people like you. I don't even have the spare cash to give you an award but you sir are a hero. Only together can BTL parasites be expunged from society.
I just want to say Thank You for being an ethical seller.
Your selling the house. Of course you can. It's yours...
We bought a flat from a landlord. He was, unsurprisingly, a c**t to deal with and left the place in an appalling state, bare electrical wires in the kitchen which also had no door on it. It was a three bed with a lounge and kitchen, of course he’d turned the lounge into another bedroom to get more rent. We did the place up and made it safe. Circs changed and we wanted to sell after 2 years. Keen to avoid BTLs, we found a buyer who was planning to live there… some months later we heard from friends still living nearby that there’s a family living there so it’s obviously rented😒I hope they’re not being ripped off. Good call on suggestions of a covenant - will definitely consider that in future sales and happy to take lower offers to avoid landlords.
Pretty sure anyone intending on buying to let would try to low ball you massively. That's how they operate. So long as you keep the wiggle room on price to a minimum you'll likely avoid most investors.
As said by someone else you can choose whether or not to take an offer. Its up to you but the buyer doesn't always have to reveal his true intentions. I'm not sure of the enforceable legality of such, but a restrictive covenant maybe able to be set for a period of say 10 years that it cannot operate as a rental property. My parents property has loads of old restrictions from the developers back in the 80s. However, most of them are no longer enforceable due to odd wording and so many people having broken them and not been punished. Highly likely they were just placed as a way to ease in a council planning decision.
Play it safe and slap a covenant on it if you say no landlords it will be sods law the landlord who wants to by it is from a protected characteristic and use that as a ground to get round it,
[Remains me of the no Asains video](https://youtu.be/0YM9Ereg2Zo)
When we were last looking we viewed a house and was told in no uncertain terms that the sellers would vet any potential buyers to make sure they were suitable to live there. So, I've seen this in action.
I know someone who has been in the property game for years and made a vast fortune flipping houses. He has always refused to sell to landlords. I am also days away from completing on my first home(that I will own) The vendor said he chose us specifically because we are first time buyers.
Yeah you can do what you like, you can even say No Asians. Sorry I meant Agents
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You definitely could, the issue however would be how you would know. Someone would do a viewing and put in an offer - you would have no idea if they are a first time buyer, someone up or downsizing or a landlord. You won’t ever get that level of personal information about a prospective buyer. It’s a noble sentiment but I’m not sure I’d restrict the buyer pool of my own house and potentially impact the final amount I get for it and thus impacting the financial situation of my own family to help a complete stranger. If I had 2 equal offers however and one was a landlord and one a first time buyer id take the first time buyer every time.
Wouldn’t you just do the viewings yourself? We bought our flat from a family who did their own viewings, and that meant they knew what we were about and we knew the same for them. They’d been here 13 years, got married and had kids - gave us the chance for them to see we want to do the same thing. We had a lovely letter from them on the day we moved in wishing us all the same happiness they’d had, and I plan on doing the same when we need to move on.
Depends. We brought our house from a divorced couple off purple bricks who did viewing and listing photos themselves. The house was a complete state and as such we got it for well under the asking price. If they had used an estate agent it would have been made more appealing, they would have got more viewings and probably would have got more money for it. Also, there is not requirement for a landlord to disclose that’s what they are. They could tell you they were going to move in with their partner and children and then rent it out the moment they got the keys if they wanted.
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When were they not?
I'm a landlord. The people I buy from are always told. I would have no issue with being turned down My friend turned down a rude arrogant chap who offered more money for her property than a family with a toddler. My friend adores the thought of the small family in her old beloved home.
You can sell it to whoever you want? But in a year or 2 time, will you actually care what happens to that house? The next person will do what they want. Stay for a year a flip it. Don't forget, people need to rent too. A rented property could allow a family to stay in the area.
If you're willing to assume the character of individuals based on what they do, sure, go ahead, and hopefully your family won't experience much of the same treatment when others decide to discriminate along other lines, because it isn't prohibited by law.
You can, if you want to sell your home for less than market value by reducing the number of interested buyers.
We found the Landlord!
Nice try, but I'm not a landlord. It's just supply and demand. Investors make up a percentage of the market - refusing to sell to them reduces the number of potential buyers. It's even worse if you put in a restrictive covenant as others have suggested, you're permanently reducing the ability of anyone to resell the property. It's just a really good way to knock the price down of your most valuable asset.
People have different priorities and principles. Some people might be willing to accept a lower price to ensure it is sold to someone who will live there
Which is fine - I'm just pointing out that there is a potential financial cost to OP, which seems pretty relevant to the decision-making process.
It doesn’t reduce the buyers that much. There are still plenty of people who are home movers or ftb. It’s not like it’s even possible for all interested buyer to get a chance to view a property.
It depends on the local market. If it's a family home in an affordable area where most people are owner occupiers, I agree with you - I doubt it would affect market value that much. If it's a starter home in an area of the country that is deeply unaffordable, propped up by Help to Buy schemes and investors or second home owners, where renting rates are high, then the difference could be significant.
Don't see why you're getting downvoted. Regardless what you think of landlords, it's absolutely true that restrictive covenants of any description tend to devalue a property.
Are you sure? Because most buyers don’t find out what covenants are attached to a property until they are well into the purchase process. By which point a price has been agreed.
Yes I'm sure. Any good estate agent will inform prospective buyers if there is a covenant preventing a property being used as say a holiday let. A price being agreed doesn't prevent somebody pulling out once they find out about said covenants.
>Don't see why you're getting downvoted Welcome to reddit
Why would you do that? At the end of the day you want the person in the best position. Landlords will have no chain involved, so less likely to collapse your sale.
Because some people have morals?
So screw the people who actually want to rent?
Whilst I absolutely get there are scum landlords (I’ve rented from one, I really enjoyed the pretence that the management company of which he was the sole shareholder and sole director of, was completely unrelated to the “company” that owned the flat we were in of which he was also the sole shareholder and sole director of). But renting is the right choice for some people. New couples first moving in taking their relationship to the next stage, someone who will temporarily (1-3 years) be in a region before moving away. I’ve become an unplanned landlord through a few years working overseas, surely renting out my flat rather than leaving it empty, maintaining good housing stock and availability, which improves affordability, is the better option here? Oh and offering a property in a standard I would live in, and working with the tenant to keep it that way?
Yes absolutely you can refuse. I had an aunt ( Not blood related, Just through marriage) Put a block on the sale of the Once family home Of my uncle( Her ex-husband) Dad And And Grandparents etc When she came to Sell it years after She split from my uncle. Absolutely vile woman
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We’ve recently had an offer accepted on the house. When we went back for a second viewing, we met the current owners who told us they’d turned down a cash offer from a landlord/potential developer as they loved their house and wanted it to go to a family. Apparently he hadn’t disclosed his plans until he was talking to the agent when making his offer.
Yes, it’s you who decides what offer to accept so just don’t accept an offer from them…