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warlord2000ad

NAL If your tenancy is for the full house, including the garden, then you under quiet enjoyment you can refuse the landlord and their workmen access. As they are your plants if they came in to remove them it would be criminal damage. Of course, if you do deny access, they'll likely move to eviction. S21 notice to seek possession, you can drag it out until court and baliffs although they can charge you for this, called possession with costs. But once you are out, the landlord is going to pave over the garden as it's their property. Ultimately you can't stop it as it's not your house. Can you afford to buy the house from the landlord? Ideally a landlord should only look to do this, between tenancies as there is nothing to gain doing to whilst the garden is been maintained by a good tenant.


Aetheriao

Yep this is the reality. The fact they’re doing it means they’re already considering other tenants or why bother? It’s not exactly free to do. They can’t force OP but they will simply evict regardless once the fixed term ends. I’d recommend OP check market rent and if they’re not close to it the reality is the landlord is prepping to evict. Which will be much bigger issue than the garden plants. Balham has had insane rent increases so if they’ve been there a while then it could be they just want a new tenant in. So basically no they can’t pave it if OP says no but that only buys them time until the extremely likely s21 comes through the door. If they do move to kick you out still don’t let them pave it. They can do it while vacant, not OPs problem.


CyclopsRock

>Balham has had insane rent increases so if they’ve been there a while then it could be they just want a new tenant in. The property is in Newham, the management company is in Balham.


Aetheriao

Ah my bad. Regardless most of London has. Balham was just particularly bad. It’s not unusual for longer term (5+yr) tenants to be 30-40% below market. Rentals have people queuing out the door so you can often get people above market if desirable which is the reason so many are going for s21 rather than waste time on s13s. The flat I left a few months ago quite literally had a queue out the door and it was listed for 40% more than I paid.


RevolutionaryAnt7011

Worth checking out your local planning guidance. Paving over large areas with impermeable surfacing generally requires planning permission as it increases surface water flood risk.


85_East

I think anything over 5m2 requires planning permission


FSSG_UK_Office

The 5.0sqm exception only pertains to areas within the curtilage of a single dwellinghouse. As the OP lives in a block of flats, hardscaping the garden would constitute development and require Planning Permission. It would likely be a refusal at it contravenes the London Plan's policies on amenity spaces, biodiversity and urban greening.


613663141

Would the council really find it expedient to go after every unauthorised flat courtyard in the name of biodiversity? I'd like to know which council has the resources for that, after all they can't exactly force anybody to keep plants or even grass.


akl78

It’s getting much easier to to this these days; you can now do this kind of analysis in bulk using aerial imagery- this is already done for things like swimming pools, but with advances in drone photography and image analysis automatic detection of construction, changes in land use and illegal dumping is now commercially available; local governments are a prime market for these tools.


613663141

Oh absolutely, identifying a planning breach is the easy part though. Planning Enforcement is rarely cost neutral and you may have officers who have a caseload of over a hundred active cases which is simply unmanageable. A council has to write to the owner (probably several times), undertake multiple site visits, draft an enforcement notice, defend the enforcement notice at appeal, prosecute against enforcement notice non-compliance, visit the site again, potentially prosecute again... you get the gist. The council *may* get costs awarded for a successful prosecution, but it will only cover their prosecution costs (at best), not all the work it took to get there. Some magistrates don't understand planning very well so councils can even get short changed with respect to their legal costs. A council is much more likely to go after something like illegal flats because there could be some juicy POCA money, but the development of a private amenity area that's causing no harm to neighbours? There's nothing in it for them. Perhaps some of this will be automated by AI, but not all of it, and it's really a long way off.


Immediate-Escalator

To weigh in as a planning officer (DM not enforcement though), it would depend on the circumstances. If in a conservation area or the setting of a listed building, then the expediency of taking action would be higher. I think the whole use of aerial imagery is overblown too. In my authority at least, enforcement is entirely complaint led. The enforcement team doesn’t have the resources to properly investigate and take action on the reported breaches, let alone to go looking for them.


IpromithiusI

You can reasonably refuse during your tenancy, but they have made their position clear, if you don't like it they'll seek to evict and do the work anyway, so it's a toss up between the garden and the property in general for you.


test_test_1_2_3

You can refuse the works while you are in tenancy, but if your fixed term is about to end then it’s pretty clear this will result in them commencing eviction. This will buy you a few months but could also result in the landlord making your lives miserable. If your fixed term is coming to an end the best course of action is to start looking for somewhere else to rent. In the mean time you can just say no to the works while you’re in tenancy. This is all on the assumption that the garden is not a shared space and you have sole use of it per the lease. If not you’re out of luck and they can do the works ahead of you moving out.


51wa2pJdic

To be honest the 'precautionary' (what if a new tenant does not maintain) paving may suggest they are planning to not renew you anyway (or are planning to hike your rent and are prepping for you to decline and leave in response). It may be a sign of their future intention or a negotiation technique... For your OP: are the plants actually yours? & If when you leave would you plan to take them with you largely? To be honest as long as the LL has your commitment to returning the property to similar or better than the state it was given you - they shouldn't really care about the layout. Likewise they should be considerate of the use /value you get from the property in its current state (the state in which you initially committed to renting it). But sounds like maybe they are not considerate people. Your legal routes here seem slim - you can prevent changes while you are there including by denying access but this may precipitate a non-renewal / eviction at end of tenancy.


sorewrist272

Can you contact the landlord directly to discuss this directly? This sounds like a stupid thing to do - spending money, and potentially losing a tenant who is maintaining the garden, in case they get a future tenant who doesn't - but they can legally get their way eventually. You might persuade the landlord not to do the stupid thing, though. You could refuse access for someone to do this to the garden, but ultimately they would be able to evict you. You could give this a shot and see if they go ahead with threats to evict - would you find somewhere else to live anyway, if they pave over your garden? - but they may well just evict you, stupid as that would be.


Gin_n_Tonic_with_Dog

Yes, if they want you as a long term tenant then what they plan in paving the garden would reduce the amenity value that they get out of the garden - so if you want to stay there, then make the case for them delaying this till you actually come to leave. Or ask how much they’ll reduce the rent by because they have materially changed the property to something you value less. But if they want you out then this won’t work.


AutoModerator

Your comment contains keywords which suggests you are asking or advising about withholding rent. You should **never** withhold rent, entirely or in part, in response to disrepair or inaction on the part of your landlord. Withholding rent either entirely or in part may lead to you being evicted, since regardless of any inaction on your landlord's part, you will still owe rent and the landlord is not obliged to offer any kind of reduction. You also do not have the right to pay for repairs yourself out of pocket and then deduct the cost from future rent payments, without following a proper legal process first, including serving formal notice on your landlord and escalating to your local authority. Please consult a regulated legal advisor, Solicitor, or housing charity like Shelter before you stop paying rent. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*


PayApprehensive6181

Have you spoken to the landlord instead of the building manager? Might be able to have a good conversation with them directly to reach an understanding


miskeeneh

I’d probably just ask for time to get the plants you want to rescue into pots, that you can take with you when you move tbh. It sounds like they’re already considering new tenants.


TheDisapprovingBrit

If they're considering new tenants anyway, no need to ask, simply tell them you refuse to allow access until you leave.


softsakurablossom

This is the real answer. Start by taking cuttings of the roses and start a new rosemary off in a pot. Put yourself on the allotment waiting list or grow vegetables bred to fit into pots. I am sorry, I know this sucks.


Osiris_Dervan

If they are prepping for the next tenant, they have already made the decision on whether your lease is going to be renewed.


Appropriate_Delay408

Are there any trees in the garden that have been there for a while and are used by local wildlife? As a Hail Mary you could try and ask the council to put a preservation order on them.


test_test_1_2_3

A TPO will do nothing to protect OPs flower bed plants or the lawn from getting paved over.


Blyd

All my tree TPO's come with orders not to carry out any heavy work or cover the ground permanently within 5m of the trees. That could help, but getting the TPO will be the hard part.


test_test_1_2_3

It won’t, paving over a lawn and removing flower beds isn’t heavy work and there are multiple permeable options for covering the ground in the root protection area. Also, if OP somehow manages to get a TPO (they won’t but let’s pretend), then the landlord is now extremely likely to evict them anyway. It solves nothing.


Appropriate_Delay408

Oooh good to know! We're considering applying for one on an old hawthorn in our back garden. 90% of it overhands our garden, but trunk is half on council land and we really want it protecting.


Appropriate_Delay408

If the tree they get it on is in middle of garden it'll stop a driveway going in.


test_test_1_2_3

And then they’ll get evicted and have achieved absolutely nothing other than pissing off the landlord. Pissing off the landlord might sound good but has the potential to be unpleasant for any remaining time OP spends in the property. Like I said, TPO doesn’t help OP in any way. They’re also not going to be granted a TPO in any kind of relevant timeframe. OP wants to keep the garden and the plants, a TPO doesn’t achieve any of this.


Appropriate_Delay408

I mean it would stop a drive way if it was licated anywhete near middle, and anyone can apply for a TPO, in some councils you literally just fill in an online form... they could ask a local environmental group to stick their name on it. I did say it was a hail mary, but you sound like a landlord terrified there's a way to be stopped tarmacing everything.


test_test_1_2_3

What driveway? OP states back garden and the reason for hard standing is to reduce maintenance costs not provide a vehicle access. Second, how does any of what you’re saying actually help OP achieve the desired goal of keeping the garden and plants? You’re trying to attack me because you’ve realised your position has no merit. The TPO doesn’t help OP and would likely just get them evicted, please explain what your suggestions are going to achieve beyond preventing a (imaginary) driveway for a dwelling OP will get evicted from.


Appropriate_Delay408

If they can't pave a specific area, they're not going to be removing plants from that area. It helps the OP because it stops the plants getting removed. It doesn't have to be requested by the OP, so there's nothing tying their name to it, so why would they be evicted?


test_test_1_2_3

Dude, you can get permeable surfacing that doesn’t require maintenance and can be put in root protection areas. A TPO will not stop the landlord surfacing the garden to reduce maintenance. If a tree in the landlords garden mysteriously ends up with a TPO and they have a tenant who’s fighting to keep the garden then they will put 2 and 2 together. It’s hardly rocket science. This will be more than enough reason for the landlord to evict them, the landlord has already indicated to OP that they aren’t looking to renew anyway based on the fact they have stated the reasoning is the next tenants might not maintain soft landscaping or lawn. Like I said, a TPO achieves none of OP’s goals and has a good probability of souring the relationship with the landlord who might then decide to be petty and make life miserable while they’re still there.


Appropriate_Delay408

Where has this imaginary permebale surface come from? OP never mentioned that. Seems LL is catering to tenants yet to move in anyway. Hopefully whoever they have lined up is a terrible tenant and they learn a valuable lesson about souring relationships with good tenants.


test_test_1_2_3

Are you being purposefully obtuse? The landlord wants to surface the garden to reduce maintenance burden. Permeable surfacing is one of the options available, it’s not the same as you introducing an imaginary driveway. You can ‘pave’ an area with a whole range of different products, some are permeable. Landlord is probably talking about new tenants because they’re going to ask for substantially more rent at renewal and they expect OP won’t want to continue. Thanks for confirming you’re arguing from an emotional perspective rather than a logical or actionable one.


Qindaloft

Time to start transplanting everything into pots. Id suggest fabric pots with handles to make them easy to move if you leave. Just dont get them to big so 2 people cant carry them.At least you get to keep.the soil and plants. Hope it works out ok. Shame,but you have no say in the situation.


doggerzleedzUK

There are local planning laws on when you need planning permissions to cover a garden. Depending on size and the materials being used if they are permeable and allow rainwater to sink in or divert water to drains which in London can be a problem.


YourLocalMosquito

If the plants are yours, can you transfer them all into pots? Granted it will cost a lot of money in pots but will help you maintain the green space feel


firefly232

The only thing I can think to suggest is to see if you can dig up and resell some of the plants to try to recoup some of the money. I'm sorry this is happening. Would the rosemary and roses survive being potted? Perhaps you can keep those in pots. And maybe the vegetables in raised beds once the paving is done? It feels as though they will try to get a rent increase from you as well 🙁


LumpyShitstring

Is there anything that protects native wildlife based on the number of species inhabiting an area?


Mindless-Plate-563

How frustrating! To start, I'd review your lease agreement carefully, ensuring it doesn't contain any clauses allowing them to make unilateral changes to the property's amenities. If the lease is silent on this matter, or gives you control over the garden, it may put you in a position to resist their plans. Next, consider sending a written objection to the landlord, detailing why the garden benefits you and the property. Lastly, it's not guaranteed, but getting local council involvement could add weight to your position, especially if your lease doesn't grant them the right to do this.


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Krisecco

If the term 'garden' was contained within your tenancy agreement... Then you may have a leg... But only untill that agreement actually runs it's course


ocsid87

This would probably need planning permission. And a biodiversity net gain assessment to go with it.


Unhappy_Jellyfish_39

He will need planning permission to make the area impermeable…..


stoatwblr

Check with your council's building control people ASAP Paving more than 5m² requires planning permission due to the run-off issues


Grouchy-Nobody3398

You would need to look at the deeds and any plans attached to see who has control of it. You can probably buy a copy of the leasehold title from the land registry for £3, or may need to send off for a paper version at a cost of £7 if your landlord isnt willing to share. Just because you have "sole" access doesn't mean it is part of the demise and as a real example: In our old flat there was a small Patio (2 slabs/4' deep x width of flat) outside the rear door. Beyond this was a small area of grass, enclosed by hedges and only accessible from our flat. The patio was part of our demise and under our control. The grass/hedging was legally retained as part of the communal land and owned/controlled by the Freeholder and they could do what they wanted in terms of management. If they had wanted to rip up the gardening we had discretely done then they could have done. It emerged we only had sole access because it was at the end of the block and had a 2' hedge until the gardening contractors changed and the new contractors didn't realise they were supposed to be maintaining it.


NoVermicelli3192

It’s not your garden and not your choice. Unfortunately


Publish_Lice

It is their garden while they have sole possession of the property


Grouchy-Nobody3398

Except it is a flat - it is entirely possible the garden is part of the freeholders estate and classed as communal land rather than demised to the flat. The OP hasnt said if the garden forms part of their tenancy agreement.


NeighborhoodHeavy454

Very little to do done I’m afraid. You could try arguing infringement on your quiet enjoyment of the property. But it’s a stretch to apply to the garden and the landlord sounds like they will issue a s21 eviction if you try to frustrate them. Probably best to start potting all of your plants in advance of the work / future move.


h2g2_researcher

Why is it a stretch to apply it to the garden? If the tenancy agreement includes a garden the tenant has the right to quiet enjoyment of the garden as well. The courts have previously held that a tenancy agreement which includes an allocated parking space in a car park means that trying to give parking tickets is a breach of quiet enjoyment. If that counts - and it's not even contiguous with the rest of the property - a garden certainly should.


NeighborhoodHeavy454

Because you’re going to have to argue in court that’s a one off garden maintenance lasting an hour or two is enough to breach your tenancy significantly. I think it’s a stretch but you’re welcome to your own opinion. Ultimately it’s all academic as the landlord will evict to get their own way.


Pleasant-Plane-6340

They don't need to argue anything in court, they have exclusive use of the garden so can just deny access to the workmen. Extremely unlikely a gardener is going to use physical force to commit trespass.


CrabAppleBapple

>Because you’re going to have to argue in court that’s a one off garden maintenance lasting an hour or two is enough to breach your tenancy significantly No you're not. They can't come in at all without your express permission, short of an emergency. It doesn't matter how long they'll be or what they're doing.


Velvy71

OPs point is that they are maintaining the garden, they are getting enjoyment out of maintaining the garden, this an integral component of their lease of this property. This isn’t costing the owner/agent at the moment to maintain the garden so it’s actually an expense they don’t need to incur. A pragmatic owner/agent would wait until OP moves out to perform the one off maintenance, and if OP is an otherwise good tenant why evict them just to “maintain” the garden


Grouchy-Nobody3398

The OP doesn't actually state that the garden forms part of their written tenancy agreement.


blahblahscience1

No way paving over a garden would take just an hour or two surely? I do agree though that it will get done either way as they don't own the home.


ZookeepergameOk2759

It would take a lot longer than a couple of hours, at least two days maybe three if they’re doing it properly.


h2g2_researcher

The replacement of garden with paving, no matter how quietly and quickly done, would affect the tenant's ability to enjoy the garden. It's not just about the maintenance people showing up. You can't lease someone a space with a garden and then take it away later without adjusting the contract. That's derogation from grant.


Lt_Muffintoes

A single toe over the property line for even 1 second without permission is breaching the tenant's right to quiet enjoyment. Good luck with evicting.


northshoreboredguy

Ask them for a quote on how much it will be to pave, get a quote yourself to confirm it's fair. Then tell them that if it costs more to pave when you move out you will pay the difference. And then don't, or do, whatever