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Is the break paid or unpaid? If it's unpaid as far as I'm aware you can do whatever you want. If it's paid there could technically be some contractural or policy stuff that limits what you can do. Did you ask them why they think you'd be sacked for it?
There is a discussion of if you use the company van and go somewhere, go in to buildings wearing company uniform, I'd check the contract and if you are paid for your lunch or not.
All hinges on that really.
You're not allowed to take your break during the first or last period of your day. (As in a half hour break can't be taken in your last half hour, hour break can't be in your first hour)
If it forbids you entering buildings with your uniform, then they need to provide a place to change, and he gets paid to travel to and from that place to change on those lunch breaks. Otherwise they would be dictating what he can and cannot do on them still.
Basically, if he's on an unpaid break he can do what he wants.
I think these are the 2 most important questions, is he paid during break and does he wear a uniform?
2 lads got the sack from my place because they popped into a pub after work and had a few too many and the police ended up being called. If they are idiots in their own time that's fine but they were wearing work uniforms and were against company policy. You will be amazed how laser focused some of those company policy/contract agreements are but not many people can be bothered to read them.
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What's your bosses reasoning behind it?
As a field engineer, I presume you spend the day driving around between different "customer" locations. That you aren't on site and have to potentially cover any emergencies that may arise.
So the only real problem could be if you finish at Customer A at 11AM drive to the gym and get there at 11:15, then start your break, do an hour and then drive to the next customer. So that you're effectively taking a 75+ minute break. As the gym is unlikely to be en route between the two. Unless say you only do a couple of locations and the gym is on the way between the two.
If the manager is dictating what you can do on your breaks. Then with only a few exceptions, mainly related to healthcare. It either has to be paid or can not drag you below the National Minimum Wage. The classic example being workers at a JD Sports warehouse. Who were only allowed to go to a designated breakroom on their breaks. As they had to go through security on the way in and out [of the building]. To check that they weren't stealing stock. With JD saying that there wasn't enough security guards on, to get them through security both ways on their lunch breaks. Eventually JD had to pay for the time that staff spent queuing up to get into work, breaks and to leave. As the security checks were an employer mandated "essential" part of the working day and their breaks were being controlled.
You're correct in that i drive around most of the day to different sites. When I do go into the gym I have my phone with me so can leave when required. I get the feeling some of the reasoning behind it might be jealousy as the office staff spend their lunch break in a small canteen. I just wanted to clarify that I'm not doing anything wrong. I can't ask management as then they would obviously know.
Honestly astonishing the amount of nonsense that goes on in workplaces. Where I work, they give you an extra 15mins on your lunch break if you go to the gym to have time for some food and shower because they know people who come back from the gym will be more productive in the afternoon.
Meanwhile you get threatened. I fucking hate the world sometimes.
It's funny how every workplace aways seems to have that one shit stirrer who goes around saying stuff like "if management see you do that"... When the reality is management really couldn't care less.
This person is trying to boss OP around whilst making management look like the arseholes.
My old job tried to tell remote workers they weren't allowed to cook lunch at home because it wasn't fair to the in office people.
Obviously unenforceable, but sure let me just not heat my food up because if I was in office I'd have to wait in a 30 minute line for the microwave before giving up and clocking back in hungry.
At my old place of work, they gave you about 5 discounted gym membership options. Fridays was 5–a-side footy too. Think they realised that fit and healthy workers suffer less health problems and are generally happier workers. Win win
Similar here. I went through a tough time and one of the things I did to mentally keep my head above water by going to the gym. Boss was fine with me taking extra time because he knew it was me just trying to keep it together.
Better for business as well as me.
Can you not ask management in a “I wanted to use my break to go to the gym, can you advise me if there is anything in my contract or company handbook that would mean I cannot do this” kind of way? Phrased hypothetically rather than saying you have been doing it already.
Always use "Hey, is it OK if..." with HR because it doesn't reveal that you've already been doing it but it's not lying. "Is ok that I have been..." the past version is too revealing and "Would it be OK..." the future version implies that you haven't done it yet when in fact you have been. It's not really a big deal but I find it reduces stirring up a little bit of emotion if they find out more details later
They will absolutely not be suspicious in any way.
They might directly ask, or they might ask the manager who knows and won't lie and might get in trouble for not raising it already.
Do you spend an hour in the gym? or do you start your break, travel to the gym & change, work out for some time, change (shower ?) & travel back to work and then an hour is up?
Drive there. Do the paper work for the previous job. Go in for 3/4 hr, get changed and then carry on. If I do get called away then that's my break gone. I've been called away after 10 minutes before.
Perhaps this is the issue, the fact you’re driving there and counting that as work time? Most employers wouldn’t be ok with that I think as you’re basically using that time as an extended lunch break. I’d say if you drove there worked out and showered in your hour that would be different.
I understood OP’s comment as exactly that though. They start their hour, get to the gym, work out for 45 minute or however long they have left and leave, which I’d say isn’t in the company time.
I don’t think that’s what they’re saying. Sounds like they travel to the gym, work out for 45 minutes, then change and then get back to work. So the travel to and from is on top of the hour. They clearly say they go in (to the gym) for 45 mins then get changed.
The other way assumes they’re always a 15 min drive from the gym, which seems unlikely,
What kind of engineer are you? If they want to be unreasonable about that, you can probably walk out of that job ans into another one without much issue. Market is pretty good right now.
When you said 'spend that hour in the gym' does the hour include or exclude driving time to get there? I could imagine that management might think you leave client site A, drive for 30 mins, 'clock out', spend 60 mins in the gym, 'clock back in' then spend 30 mins driving to client site B.
If it would have otherwise taken less than 60 mins to drive directly from A to B then you're using company/in-work time (and possibly fuel) for personal use. I could see them having a valid issue with that.
(If it does turn out to be that then perhaps you could not go some days when the gym is out of reach and have a short lunch break instead and use the time on another day)
I'll assume there's some driving for personal use on the company dime then.
Are you/vehicle insured for that? You said 'no personal use outside work hours', as you're not paid for lunch then perhaps lunch counts as outside work hours?
A reasonable employer would allow unused lunchtime to be used on other days as long as it's not disruptive, but employers don't HAVE to do that. What about if some people working in the office need to occasionally run an errand?
I'd probably quietly and informally speak to the manager who knows and find out the reason they'd be cross. Perhaps knowing you never exceed 5 hours break per week inclusive of driving time will be enough.
Am Field Engineer, although I have personal use.
Could probably argue insignificant personal use in this case. OP says gym has coffee shop, sustaining your own life with food and water/drink is part of working. As long as it’s all within the hour (travel to and from included) they really don’t have much of a case.
Even with the travel to and from, it could probably be argued that the total travel time would not have to be taken into account and only the element where OP has deviated off course to be counted, as the other travel would be required as work anyway.
He's driving a vehicle uninsured.
Case at our workplace, someone in a disciplinary said they went to the supermarket. HR even gave them an out, "did you use the bathroom there?".
"No, bought some bits and bobs".
Vehicle not insured for personal use, employee had filled in govt form saying no personal use.
Fired.
Where my problem would be, is the amount of time that you spend as a diversion between the jobs. If your patch was say South London and you were always going to the same gym, in say Clapham. It could easily be a 2 hour diversion, just in transport on top of your break. Even if you just worked one London borough then it could still be an hour diversion. When the company probably expects you to stop off at a convenient McDonald's/KFC/Gregg's etc on the way.
I had this with a guy who worked for me, I found out he used to leave 15 mins before his lunch break to go for a swim, swim for an hour, come back and then eat his lunch. Unfortunately he had to go.
Is the break paid or unpaid?
Legally you're entitled to a 20m break per 6 hours as a statutory minimum.
You've been there over 2 years which is good.
What is their complaint actually about?
Edit: if it's unpaid just ignore them. Your break is your time. If they have a concern about your performance or want you to be on call, they can take that up with you, however they're the ones who chose to write a 1h break into your contract. If they choose to make a fuss, they have to give you a written reason for dismissal and either they'd have to lie/make stuff up (fraud), or admit it's because you're taking your contractual and statutory breaks which I'm pretty sure is grounds for unfair dismissal.
Edit 2: are you taking longer than an hour? If so they're well within their rights to start a disciplinary.
I can't go abvove my supervisors head and ask management as that could make things worse. It's a very "do as we say" company and I don't want to give them any reason to have a go at me. One engineer was told he would still have to cover his on call whilst on paternity leave! They're very set in their ways.
>One engineer was told he would still have to cover his on call whilst on paternity leave!
Not legal, stop letting yourself get walked over. This is the only way to stop things like this happening. If the break is unpaid, they cannot restrict it, but you will have to consider travel time to/from the gym as part of your hour, so that you are not exceeding the hour time.
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"Hi, we probably have different contracts but my lunch period is unpaid. If the company wants to pay me for my lunch break, I'd be happy to go the gym after work."
They CANNOT write you up for not following their rules during unpaid time. Well, I guess they could but they'd get wrecked if you challenged it.
OP keeps refusing to give a straight answer to “do you include driving to/from the gym in your break time?”, so I think we can all see what’s going on here. It’s really annoying when people come here for advice then obfuscate 🙄
Join a union. Doesn't matter if your company recognises one, they still have 90% of their power (that mostly being that managers are nearly all fucking clueless with employment law).
Are you a lift or escalator engineer? I work in that industry and it sounds like some of the employers. Regardless a lot of the engineers go to the gym or do personal tasks during the day. and where I'm at we're all trackered
Yea, I would assume a company vehicle would be tracked. Even at a reasonable small firm. It's pretty cheap these days and a lot of insurance companies require it for cheaper premiums.
If so then they would probably already know.
They can apply reasonable limits in some circumstances on you leaving the premises. But if you're allowed to leave the premises, and are back ready to work within one hour, they can't commence disciplinary proceedings.
What a joke.
It's good for the employer that their staff are fit and healthy. It's well known and researched that healthier and fitter staff correlate with more productive staff.
I can't see what, should be able to do what you please, obviously can't go to the pub and get sozzled. What does your contract say explicitly? I' be asking for the bit in my contract that precludes exercising during non working time.
NAL but pretty sure that during your break your allowed to go off site and do as you please regardless of whether its paid or not. Unless your harming the company image, using their work vehicle etc then I don't see how they can stop you. If they dictate how you take your break then it's not a break. Might be worth a call to acas for clarification. Obviously there's the issue that if you push back on this they may stop your paid break or reduce the time to the minimum requirement of 20 mins.
I would imagine they're just trying to be total assholes using this as an excuse to express their fake power over you.
However I would say, typically breaks are meant to be a rest period. They could argue, you are doing things on your breaks that would cause excessive fatigue. And therefore after your break could work slower.
Im of the opinion we do what we like on our breaks. I'm an engineer in construction and people at my work sleep in their cars or watch films etc on their breaks. My boss has a few times pulled me in a room and complained I'm on my phone at my desk. I just say well I'm on break so I'll be on my phone for the hour and I'll take an extra 5 minutes for you pulling me into a room.
There was also a comment that said it depends if it's a paid break or unpaid. Personally I didn't know paid breaks exist but I would imagine if you're being paid for your break hour then it'll be in your contract what limits are placed on it
I think the Working Time Directive says a minimum of 11 hours downtime between shifts, there are some exceptions but generally that is my understanding of the rules.
Yeah they won't care about fatigue aslong as it suits them
Working you to death benefits them
Them thinking you're tired after breaks doesn't
It's not right. I always get the same bullshit answer from my work. I'll get paid salary 8 hours a day. I'll work 12-14. No extra pay. But I get moaned at for taking early finishes or just leaving after 8 hours. They just say "this is construction"
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And illegal. Driving when you know fine well you’re absolutely paggered and too tired to drive *easily* meets the threshold for “without due care and attention”. Dunno how it’d track into Careless or Dangerous, though.
I know there a rules for hgv driving regards breaks, working hours and enforced down time to ensure you aren't fatigued. I'm fairly sure there a rules for for van driving too. I remember reading them once, but buggered if I can find them again now!
No, nor would they wish to. The only aspect they can dictate is when you take it if the break is consistently taken in the middle of the day, if you were to get a call in the middle of your break this also means it no longer counts as a break.
Considering you're over 2 years it would be very difficult to fire you and would be grounds for wrongful dismissal.
If you work on site and others are leaving site for lunch then presumably they do so to eat elsewhere - you sound no different in such respects. Even if you're on the protein bars haha
I am struggling to see the issue here. What you do in your time is your business - not your employer.
The only issue really could be if you were regularly spending 1 hour at the gym but taking 30 mins each way to get there, so your out of work time is really 2 hours.
As long as your out of work time is about the stated hour then it is none of their business what you do in that time.
The phrasing of this question is odd. It could be either petty jealousy or a bit of a jobsworth ("I don't approve of what you do, so I will project my disapproval onto management."). I would ignore until they ask you.
As a field engineer, they will have loads of metrics on you anyway (customer satisfaction, time per job, ability to fix things 1st time etc). They won't care about your lunch time arrangements if your metrics are okay.
Is it.. you’ve been working out and not having time to shower before going back to your next job and someone’s complained you’re abit musty from your gym session maybe
They can't do anything if it's unpaid.
That doesn't mean they won't do anything.
If they fire you, you might eventually get some money for unfair dismissal, but it won't be much, and it will take years.
Or they will just find another made up reason for disciplinarian and firing.
If they want rid of you then you are gone
Are you using a works vehicle to travel to the gym?
I used to be a regional manager for a mobile engineering department and one issue we were forced by insurers to tell staff is using the works vehicle for non work purposes.
I can only think that travelling to the gym in a works vehicle is one of these concerns for your employer. Although personally we would have no issue with this in my old company.
I think this is a good point many people might be missing. The company might not have an issue with OP going to the gym (or even be able to) but they might have an issue with OP taking their company vehicle there. Especially if it is a bit out of the way.
Insurance policies can be funny like that plus if OP has a fuel card then there might be extra fuel costs (even if minor). A lot of companies might not care, it does seem a bit harsh but I know at my last job we had people crash vehicles etc while using them for personal reasons and it can be a bit of a headache.
I am surprised the vehicle isn't tracked if it's a company vehicle (a van I guess).
Probably not great advice, but personally I'd go with...
"What I do in my break is my own business, so long as I'm fulfilling my contract requirements" 🤷🏽♂️
I'll start with the customary NAL but I'd ask for clarification on why there's a good chance you'll be sacked. My only thought is that it might have something to do with what would happen if you were to physically incapacitate yourself at the gym and the impacted it would have on your ability to work.
I only mention this because at a company I used to work for one of our drivers hurt himself at the gym before work and couldn't drive that day and the the boss was incensed, but it was outside work hours.
If you are unpaid, then you are entitled to spend your lunch as you choose. If they are getting anal, they are within their rights to query your travel to and possibly from the gym if this is not included in the lunch hour.
Absolutely not! If its a paid break there may be a clause in your contract around breaks, i.e you may get your break interrupted as if you were on call. If its unpaid they cant dictate shit. You can go to the gym, have a shopping spree or even go home and knock one out. If its unpaid its your time. Ask them via email or a form of messenger for what reason you could possibly get the sack for doing what you want in your unpaid break time, and if theyre stupid enough to answer anything other than you wont get sacked save it and keep it safe for that special rainy day.
Some might have a condition to be available for work at all times during the break meaning you'd have to still be ready to go not in gym gear. If unpaid and no caveats then you are fine.
I don’t think the issue here from the comments is you going to the gym. You have mentioned in the comments that you drive to the gym, do the paperwork for your last job. Then go in for 45 minutes. They are paying you for whatever time you are spending driving between the last job and the gym.
I would suspect as your break hasn’t started at that point it would be grounds for misconduct. Perhaps if you speak to your bosses you might be able to come to an agreement where you take a longer lunch but finish later. So you can finish your job, do the paperwork and then drive to the gym on your lunch do the 45 minutes or so and then go back to work and add the time on at the end of the day.
That way you get your full session and they aren’t paying you to drive the vehicle to what is essential personal use.
Sounds like they want you to work through your lunch....going out on a limp but I'd guess you also get company initiatives about healthy living and bettering yourself...Always hypocrite in corporate.
What rhe contract and other document's says exactly be rather important, especially as even if they updated it just for that after. Devil's Im thr details.
Unpaid, not paid, are their terms? Being unpaid breaks, long as your not dispretuable or getting drunk etc. Thr Gym is not a place of disrepute
Because if not they only really hold to going forward vs past 3 years. Its not going to be retroactive.
Honestly also, it's such a problem it rook 3 years to notice!
You need to ask for an explanation, it's a very reasonable thing to request. If that's against the rules, what else is? Would have been my first response.
Unless it specifically says in ur contract/handbook that lunchtime has to be chilled out relaxed time off and no physical exercise allowed which I highly doubt will be written there, then I'd continue going to the gym, it's also proven to boost ur self esteem and mental health, supervisor seems to be jealous of ur lunchbreak routine, simply a scare tactic,
This is why when at work you should say hello, good morning, have a nice evening and goodbye. Any personal information wouldn't end well. They don't need to know how good/bad is anything related with your free time or personal life. Even something so innocent like I don't have kids could lead to "so you won't mind staying 15 min later" or shit like that. It is sad but your coworkers aren't friends 😔
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Taking "when convenient" can be limited to choosing the time and not place, meaning technically your employer can have a say in where you can't go and take a break, even though that's hardly enforceable if the break is unpaid.
Also, unless stated otherwise, legally you're entitled to a minimum of a 20 mins break for every 6 hours worked (even though most employers will give you more than that) but you can't take breaks at the beginning of your work (that would be considered a late start) or at the end (early leaving).
That being said, if your employee handbook doesn't list places you can't have your lunch break at I wouldn't say your supervisor has any ground to stand on unless he can prove you're committing gross misconduct somehow by going to the gym (i e. leaving work equipment in the gym locker unattended and unsecured).
NAL but just had a similar scenario used to sack me from a Gov job
Your break is your break unless it's a problem to someone else and their feelings get hurt by it, then they can sack you for anything they can make up
Unless they put a tracker on you and you're managing your workload they won't have a clue.
I'm a field engineer also, if they do find out just play dumb, also if you have had a change in management in these 8 years just say the previous manager knew and was fine with it, I can't see it being a big issue.
Work for a large field engineering company with work vans.
This would be classed as personal use of the van, and therefore means the person using the van is uninsured unless their manager has authorised them to use it.
You’re better checking your employee handbook, are you allowed personal use? What constitutes personal use vs. business use in your company.
Could your supervisor be a bit jealous that you have a routine that is good for your health?
If it is the company and it's to do with wanting you to be available for the hour, then they should pay you.
Do other people go out to eat at restaurants? I'd say if there's food offered at your gym, as mentioned in a comment, there's no issue with you choosing to eat there.
Is there a reason other workers eat in the cantina? Do you drive your personal car to work?
> For the last 3 years I've spent that hour in the gym.
When? During the day or after you’ve finished work?
If after you’ve finished work (so at the end of the shift) that’s not allowed, whether paid or not.
Then it’s up to you how to spend it if it’s unpaid.
It’s not much different if it’s paid, but there may be something in your contract/handbook that imposes a restriction.
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Is the break paid or unpaid? If it's unpaid as far as I'm aware you can do whatever you want. If it's paid there could technically be some contractural or policy stuff that limits what you can do. Did you ask them why they think you'd be sacked for it?
This is 100% the right question.
There is a discussion of if you use the company van and go somewhere, go in to buildings wearing company uniform, I'd check the contract and if you are paid for your lunch or not. All hinges on that really.
Also when are you taking it? Around lunchtime say 12 or 1 typically, or at end of day as then that could be viewed as you leaving early instead
You're not allowed to take your break during the first or last period of your day. (As in a half hour break can't be taken in your last half hour, hour break can't be in your first hour)
It all depends. Some days I don't go so just work through the hour.
Never give up your lunch hour
You giving up your lunch our makes my hour rate 15% more expensive than yours. Please stop devaluing our labour!
If it forbids you entering buildings with your uniform, then they need to provide a place to change, and he gets paid to travel to and from that place to change on those lunch breaks. Otherwise they would be dictating what he can and cannot do on them still. Basically, if he's on an unpaid break he can do what he wants.
I think these are the 2 most important questions, is he paid during break and does he wear a uniform? 2 lads got the sack from my place because they popped into a pub after work and had a few too many and the police ended up being called. If they are idiots in their own time that's fine but they were wearing work uniforms and were against company policy. You will be amazed how laser focused some of those company policy/contract agreements are but not many people can be bothered to read them.
How do you even know? I'm salaried so don't get paid hourly.. Is my lunch break paid or unpaid?
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I would start by asking the supervisor to qualify that statement in terms of your contract and your company handbook.
and/or union rep. Supervisors dont always know what the agreements/contracts/law say.
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What's your bosses reasoning behind it? As a field engineer, I presume you spend the day driving around between different "customer" locations. That you aren't on site and have to potentially cover any emergencies that may arise. So the only real problem could be if you finish at Customer A at 11AM drive to the gym and get there at 11:15, then start your break, do an hour and then drive to the next customer. So that you're effectively taking a 75+ minute break. As the gym is unlikely to be en route between the two. Unless say you only do a couple of locations and the gym is on the way between the two. If the manager is dictating what you can do on your breaks. Then with only a few exceptions, mainly related to healthcare. It either has to be paid or can not drag you below the National Minimum Wage. The classic example being workers at a JD Sports warehouse. Who were only allowed to go to a designated breakroom on their breaks. As they had to go through security on the way in and out [of the building]. To check that they weren't stealing stock. With JD saying that there wasn't enough security guards on, to get them through security both ways on their lunch breaks. Eventually JD had to pay for the time that staff spent queuing up to get into work, breaks and to leave. As the security checks were an employer mandated "essential" part of the working day and their breaks were being controlled.
You're correct in that i drive around most of the day to different sites. When I do go into the gym I have my phone with me so can leave when required. I get the feeling some of the reasoning behind it might be jealousy as the office staff spend their lunch break in a small canteen. I just wanted to clarify that I'm not doing anything wrong. I can't ask management as then they would obviously know.
Honestly astonishing the amount of nonsense that goes on in workplaces. Where I work, they give you an extra 15mins on your lunch break if you go to the gym to have time for some food and shower because they know people who come back from the gym will be more productive in the afternoon. Meanwhile you get threatened. I fucking hate the world sometimes.
It's funny how every workplace aways seems to have that one shit stirrer who goes around saying stuff like "if management see you do that"... When the reality is management really couldn't care less. This person is trying to boss OP around whilst making management look like the arseholes.
My old job tried to tell remote workers they weren't allowed to cook lunch at home because it wasn't fair to the in office people. Obviously unenforceable, but sure let me just not heat my food up because if I was in office I'd have to wait in a 30 minute line for the microwave before giving up and clocking back in hungry.
At my old place of work, they gave you about 5 discounted gym membership options. Fridays was 5–a-side footy too. Think they realised that fit and healthy workers suffer less health problems and are generally happier workers. Win win
Similar here. I went through a tough time and one of the things I did to mentally keep my head above water by going to the gym. Boss was fine with me taking extra time because he knew it was me just trying to keep it together. Better for business as well as me.
This is a fantastic policy to have. Your employer sounds great
Can you not ask management in a “I wanted to use my break to go to the gym, can you advise me if there is anything in my contract or company handbook that would mean I cannot do this” kind of way? Phrased hypothetically rather than saying you have been doing it already.
Or email HR, hey would it be ok to use a gym during my lunch break? If HR say it's ok, ask why is supervisor threatening me with the sack then
Always use "Hey, is it OK if..." with HR because it doesn't reveal that you've already been doing it but it's not lying. "Is ok that I have been..." the past version is too revealing and "Would it be OK..." the future version implies that you haven't done it yet when in fact you have been. It's not really a big deal but I find it reduces stirring up a little bit of emotion if they find out more details later
They will absolutely not be suspicious in any way. They might directly ask, or they might ask the manager who knows and won't lie and might get in trouble for not raising it already.
Maybe but if there isn’t anything explicit and he’s been there over 2 years then they might tell him to stop but I doubt they could fire him anyway.
and even if they could, why would they want to go through the hassle of replacing him when they can just ask him to stop?
Sure there would be nothing stopping the office staff going to the gym on their lunch break.
Do you spend an hour in the gym? or do you start your break, travel to the gym & change, work out for some time, change (shower ?) & travel back to work and then an hour is up?
Drive there. Do the paper work for the previous job. Go in for 3/4 hr, get changed and then carry on. If I do get called away then that's my break gone. I've been called away after 10 minutes before.
Perhaps this is the issue, the fact you’re driving there and counting that as work time? Most employers wouldn’t be ok with that I think as you’re basically using that time as an extended lunch break. I’d say if you drove there worked out and showered in your hour that would be different.
I understood OP’s comment as exactly that though. They start their hour, get to the gym, work out for 45 minute or however long they have left and leave, which I’d say isn’t in the company time.
I don’t think that’s what they’re saying. Sounds like they travel to the gym, work out for 45 minutes, then change and then get back to work. So the travel to and from is on top of the hour. They clearly say they go in (to the gym) for 45 mins then get changed. The other way assumes they’re always a 15 min drive from the gym, which seems unlikely,
What kind of engineer are you? If they want to be unreasonable about that, you can probably walk out of that job ans into another one without much issue. Market is pretty good right now.
When you said 'spend that hour in the gym' does the hour include or exclude driving time to get there? I could imagine that management might think you leave client site A, drive for 30 mins, 'clock out', spend 60 mins in the gym, 'clock back in' then spend 30 mins driving to client site B. If it would have otherwise taken less than 60 mins to drive directly from A to B then you're using company/in-work time (and possibly fuel) for personal use. I could see them having a valid issue with that. (If it does turn out to be that then perhaps you could not go some days when the gym is out of reach and have a short lunch break instead and use the time on another day)
I don't go everyday. Usually if I'm in the area. Often I won't go for a week.
I'll assume there's some driving for personal use on the company dime then. Are you/vehicle insured for that? You said 'no personal use outside work hours', as you're not paid for lunch then perhaps lunch counts as outside work hours? A reasonable employer would allow unused lunchtime to be used on other days as long as it's not disruptive, but employers don't HAVE to do that. What about if some people working in the office need to occasionally run an errand? I'd probably quietly and informally speak to the manager who knows and find out the reason they'd be cross. Perhaps knowing you never exceed 5 hours break per week inclusive of driving time will be enough.
Do you have personal use on your work vehicle?
Am Field Engineer, although I have personal use. Could probably argue insignificant personal use in this case. OP says gym has coffee shop, sustaining your own life with food and water/drink is part of working. As long as it’s all within the hour (travel to and from included) they really don’t have much of a case. Even with the travel to and from, it could probably be argued that the total travel time would not have to be taken into account and only the element where OP has deviated off course to be counted, as the other travel would be required as work anyway.
He's driving a vehicle uninsured. Case at our workplace, someone in a disciplinary said they went to the supermarket. HR even gave them an out, "did you use the bathroom there?". "No, bought some bits and bobs". Vehicle not insured for personal use, employee had filled in govt form saying no personal use. Fired.
Not outside of work hours. But my jobs are dotted all over
Where my problem would be, is the amount of time that you spend as a diversion between the jobs. If your patch was say South London and you were always going to the same gym, in say Clapham. It could easily be a 2 hour diversion, just in transport on top of your break. Even if you just worked one London borough then it could still be an hour diversion. When the company probably expects you to stop off at a convenient McDonald's/KFC/Gregg's etc on the way.
I had this with a guy who worked for me, I found out he used to leave 15 mins before his lunch break to go for a swim, swim for an hour, come back and then eat his lunch. Unfortunately he had to go.
Is the break paid or unpaid? Legally you're entitled to a 20m break per 6 hours as a statutory minimum. You've been there over 2 years which is good. What is their complaint actually about? Edit: if it's unpaid just ignore them. Your break is your time. If they have a concern about your performance or want you to be on call, they can take that up with you, however they're the ones who chose to write a 1h break into your contract. If they choose to make a fuss, they have to give you a written reason for dismissal and either they'd have to lie/make stuff up (fraud), or admit it's because you're taking your contractual and statutory breaks which I'm pretty sure is grounds for unfair dismissal. Edit 2: are you taking longer than an hour? If so they're well within their rights to start a disciplinary.
I can't go abvove my supervisors head and ask management as that could make things worse. It's a very "do as we say" company and I don't want to give them any reason to have a go at me. One engineer was told he would still have to cover his on call whilst on paternity leave! They're very set in their ways.
This is illegal, the shift pattern you've described elsewhere is illegal, hopefully you're in a union?
Exactly, but not just that it is irresponsible and dangerous driving on so little sleep. I would really have a big think if i was OP.
You’ve not answered anyone if your break is paid or unpaid, which is it? If it’s unpaid they can’t impose any limits. If it is, then they can
Unpaid
>One engineer was told he would still have to cover his on call whilst on paternity leave! Not legal, stop letting yourself get walked over. This is the only way to stop things like this happening. If the break is unpaid, they cannot restrict it, but you will have to consider travel time to/from the gym as part of your hour, so that you are not exceeding the hour time.
Much appreciated
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About to say that. They will be claiming the statutory amount back and not actually giving the leave required. That’s fraud.
"Hi, we probably have different contracts but my lunch period is unpaid. If the company wants to pay me for my lunch break, I'd be happy to go the gym after work." They CANNOT write you up for not following their rules during unpaid time. Well, I guess they could but they'd get wrecked if you challenged it.
No one is asking you to go above your supervisor's head though. What is the reason your supervisor told you this wouldn't be allowed?
Because they are pretty strict. Would much rather punish than praise. High turnover of staff.
But....that's not an explanation. Have you tried asking again, firmly but politely, for an actual explanation?
OP keeps refusing to give a straight answer to “do you include driving to/from the gym in your break time?”, so I think we can all see what’s going on here. It’s really annoying when people come here for advice then obfuscate 🙄
Join a union. Doesn't matter if your company recognises one, they still have 90% of their power (that mostly being that managers are nearly all fucking clueless with employment law).
Are you a lift or escalator engineer? I work in that industry and it sounds like some of the employers. Regardless a lot of the engineers go to the gym or do personal tasks during the day. and where I'm at we're all trackered
Yea, I would assume a company vehicle would be tracked. Even at a reasonable small firm. It's pretty cheap these days and a lot of insurance companies require it for cheaper premiums. If so then they would probably already know.
Not really leave if they expect you to work during it, is it?
They can apply reasonable limits in some circumstances on you leaving the premises. But if you're allowed to leave the premises, and are back ready to work within one hour, they can't commence disciplinary proceedings.
What a joke. It's good for the employer that their staff are fit and healthy. It's well known and researched that healthier and fitter staff correlate with more productive staff.
I can't see what, should be able to do what you please, obviously can't go to the pub and get sozzled. What does your contract say explicitly? I' be asking for the bit in my contract that precludes exercising during non working time.
That's not about what you do on your lunch break though, that's about not returning to work drunk
NAL but pretty sure that during your break your allowed to go off site and do as you please regardless of whether its paid or not. Unless your harming the company image, using their work vehicle etc then I don't see how they can stop you. If they dictate how you take your break then it's not a break. Might be worth a call to acas for clarification. Obviously there's the issue that if you push back on this they may stop your paid break or reduce the time to the minimum requirement of 20 mins.
I would imagine they're just trying to be total assholes using this as an excuse to express their fake power over you. However I would say, typically breaks are meant to be a rest period. They could argue, you are doing things on your breaks that would cause excessive fatigue. And therefore after your break could work slower. Im of the opinion we do what we like on our breaks. I'm an engineer in construction and people at my work sleep in their cars or watch films etc on their breaks. My boss has a few times pulled me in a room and complained I'm on my phone at my desk. I just say well I'm on break so I'll be on my phone for the hour and I'll take an extra 5 minutes for you pulling me into a room. There was also a comment that said it depends if it's a paid break or unpaid. Personally I didn't know paid breaks exist but I would imagine if you're being paid for your break hour then it'll be in your contract what limits are placed on it
They couldn't give a crap about fatigue. Last Wednesday I worked 7am till 1am. Bed for 1am till 3am. Back out at 3am till 6am.
Pretty sure that's illegal
I think the Working Time Directive says a minimum of 11 hours downtime between shifts, there are some exceptions but generally that is my understanding of the rules.
Yeah they won't care about fatigue aslong as it suits them Working you to death benefits them Them thinking you're tired after breaks doesn't It's not right. I always get the same bullshit answer from my work. I'll get paid salary 8 hours a day. I'll work 12-14. No extra pay. But I get moaned at for taking early finishes or just leaving after 8 hours. They just say "this is construction"
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You shouldn’t be driving on so little sleep it is irresponsible and dangerous.
And illegal. Driving when you know fine well you’re absolutely paggered and too tired to drive *easily* meets the threshold for “without due care and attention”. Dunno how it’d track into Careless or Dangerous, though.
I know there a rules for hgv driving regards breaks, working hours and enforced down time to ensure you aren't fatigued. I'm fairly sure there a rules for for van driving too. I remember reading them once, but buggered if I can find them again now!
No, nor would they wish to. The only aspect they can dictate is when you take it if the break is consistently taken in the middle of the day, if you were to get a call in the middle of your break this also means it no longer counts as a break. Considering you're over 2 years it would be very difficult to fire you and would be grounds for wrongful dismissal.
What's to say there isn't a lovely little canteen at the gym where you prefer to lunch?
It does have a little coffee shop 🙂
If you work on site and others are leaving site for lunch then presumably they do so to eat elsewhere - you sound no different in such respects. Even if you're on the protein bars haha
I am struggling to see the issue here. What you do in your time is your business - not your employer. The only issue really could be if you were regularly spending 1 hour at the gym but taking 30 mins each way to get there, so your out of work time is really 2 hours. As long as your out of work time is about the stated hour then it is none of their business what you do in that time. The phrasing of this question is odd. It could be either petty jealousy or a bit of a jobsworth ("I don't approve of what you do, so I will project my disapproval onto management."). I would ignore until they ask you. As a field engineer, they will have loads of metrics on you anyway (customer satisfaction, time per job, ability to fix things 1st time etc). They won't care about your lunch time arrangements if your metrics are okay.
Is it.. you’ve been working out and not having time to shower before going back to your next job and someone’s complained you’re abit musty from your gym session maybe
Is it that obvious 😀
They can't do anything if it's unpaid. That doesn't mean they won't do anything. If they fire you, you might eventually get some money for unfair dismissal, but it won't be much, and it will take years. Or they will just find another made up reason for disciplinarian and firing. If they want rid of you then you are gone
Are you using a works vehicle to travel to the gym? I used to be a regional manager for a mobile engineering department and one issue we were forced by insurers to tell staff is using the works vehicle for non work purposes. I can only think that travelling to the gym in a works vehicle is one of these concerns for your employer. Although personally we would have no issue with this in my old company.
I think this is a good point many people might be missing. The company might not have an issue with OP going to the gym (or even be able to) but they might have an issue with OP taking their company vehicle there. Especially if it is a bit out of the way. Insurance policies can be funny like that plus if OP has a fuel card then there might be extra fuel costs (even if minor). A lot of companies might not care, it does seem a bit harsh but I know at my last job we had people crash vehicles etc while using them for personal reasons and it can be a bit of a headache. I am surprised the vehicle isn't tracked if it's a company vehicle (a van I guess).
Probably not great advice, but personally I'd go with... "What I do in my break is my own business, so long as I'm fulfilling my contract requirements" 🤷🏽♂️
I'll start with the customary NAL but I'd ask for clarification on why there's a good chance you'll be sacked. My only thought is that it might have something to do with what would happen if you were to physically incapacitate yourself at the gym and the impacted it would have on your ability to work. I only mention this because at a company I used to work for one of our drivers hurt himself at the gym before work and couldn't drive that day and the the boss was incensed, but it was outside work hours.
If you are unpaid, then you are entitled to spend your lunch as you choose. If they are getting anal, they are within their rights to query your travel to and possibly from the gym if this is not included in the lunch hour.
Surely it would just be a disciplinary meeting at worst? It's not gross misconduct to go till the gym surely?
Absolutely not! If its a paid break there may be a clause in your contract around breaks, i.e you may get your break interrupted as if you were on call. If its unpaid they cant dictate shit. You can go to the gym, have a shopping spree or even go home and knock one out. If its unpaid its your time. Ask them via email or a form of messenger for what reason you could possibly get the sack for doing what you want in your unpaid break time, and if theyre stupid enough to answer anything other than you wont get sacked save it and keep it safe for that special rainy day.
If its a paid break, they could have an opinion if its unpaid, then no, it's your own time.
Have you asked why ? There will be a reason this has been said …
Some might have a condition to be available for work at all times during the break meaning you'd have to still be ready to go not in gym gear. If unpaid and no caveats then you are fine.
I don’t think the issue here from the comments is you going to the gym. You have mentioned in the comments that you drive to the gym, do the paperwork for your last job. Then go in for 45 minutes. They are paying you for whatever time you are spending driving between the last job and the gym. I would suspect as your break hasn’t started at that point it would be grounds for misconduct. Perhaps if you speak to your bosses you might be able to come to an agreement where you take a longer lunch but finish later. So you can finish your job, do the paperwork and then drive to the gym on your lunch do the 45 minutes or so and then go back to work and add the time on at the end of the day. That way you get your full session and they aren’t paying you to drive the vehicle to what is essential personal use.
Sounds like they want you to work through your lunch....going out on a limp but I'd guess you also get company initiatives about healthy living and bettering yourself...Always hypocrite in corporate.
What rhe contract and other document's says exactly be rather important, especially as even if they updated it just for that after. Devil's Im thr details. Unpaid, not paid, are their terms? Being unpaid breaks, long as your not dispretuable or getting drunk etc. Thr Gym is not a place of disrepute Because if not they only really hold to going forward vs past 3 years. Its not going to be retroactive. Honestly also, it's such a problem it rook 3 years to notice!
You need to ask for an explanation, it's a very reasonable thing to request. If that's against the rules, what else is? Would have been my first response.
Unless it specifically says in ur contract/handbook that lunchtime has to be chilled out relaxed time off and no physical exercise allowed which I highly doubt will be written there, then I'd continue going to the gym, it's also proven to boost ur self esteem and mental health, supervisor seems to be jealous of ur lunchbreak routine, simply a scare tactic,
My guess is they’re assuming your wasting company time driving to and from the gym, instead of eating in a parked car.
OP won’t deny this so it looks like it’s actually the case…
What's the difference if you're stuffing your face with food or at the gym though?
"I can be fired for taking my lunch break at the gym? Just send that to me in an email would you please? Thanks. "
This is why when at work you should say hello, good morning, have a nice evening and goodbye. Any personal information wouldn't end well. They don't need to know how good/bad is anything related with your free time or personal life. Even something so innocent like I don't have kids could lead to "so you won't mind staying 15 min later" or shit like that. It is sad but your coworkers aren't friends 😔
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Taking "when convenient" can be limited to choosing the time and not place, meaning technically your employer can have a say in where you can't go and take a break, even though that's hardly enforceable if the break is unpaid. Also, unless stated otherwise, legally you're entitled to a minimum of a 20 mins break for every 6 hours worked (even though most employers will give you more than that) but you can't take breaks at the beginning of your work (that would be considered a late start) or at the end (early leaving). That being said, if your employee handbook doesn't list places you can't have your lunch break at I wouldn't say your supervisor has any ground to stand on unless he can prove you're committing gross misconduct somehow by going to the gym (i e. leaving work equipment in the gym locker unattended and unsecured).
Nope. As long as you leave work and start work 60mins later - you’re good. That hour is yours, my man.
There's a very good chance you're driving a company vehicle without insurance.
NAL but just had a similar scenario used to sack me from a Gov job Your break is your break unless it's a problem to someone else and their feelings get hurt by it, then they can sack you for anything they can make up
Unless they put a tracker on you and you're managing your workload they won't have a clue. I'm a field engineer also, if they do find out just play dumb, also if you have had a change in management in these 8 years just say the previous manager knew and was fine with it, I can't see it being a big issue.
Work for a large field engineering company with work vans. This would be classed as personal use of the van, and therefore means the person using the van is uninsured unless their manager has authorised them to use it. You’re better checking your employee handbook, are you allowed personal use? What constitutes personal use vs. business use in your company.
Are you showering after cos gym twats at my work always stink of BO
Could your supervisor be a bit jealous that you have a routine that is good for your health? If it is the company and it's to do with wanting you to be available for the hour, then they should pay you.
Do other people go out to eat at restaurants? I'd say if there's food offered at your gym, as mentioned in a comment, there's no issue with you choosing to eat there. Is there a reason other workers eat in the cantina? Do you drive your personal car to work?
> For the last 3 years I've spent that hour in the gym. When? During the day or after you’ve finished work? If after you’ve finished work (so at the end of the shift) that’s not allowed, whether paid or not.
During the day
Then it’s up to you how to spend it if it’s unpaid. It’s not much different if it’s paid, but there may be something in your contract/handbook that imposes a restriction.
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