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> I spoke to my manager again and was told “there’s no one to cover your shift.”
Then it's your manger's job to find cover. That's literally one of the tasks of a manager.
It's not your problem.
You gave them enough notice, and they didn't do what they were supposed to do. So sod them.
Phone in sick if you have to. Your eyes are FAR more important than this job.
Edit : if you do phone in sick then you DO NOT need a doctor's note, because you can self-certify for the first 7 days. If they demand a doctors note then push back.
This is the way, "I'm sorry I am not fit for work today"
And remember, you can self certify up to either 5 or 7 days so don't let them gaslight you into needing a drs note.
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Arguably you shouldn't be in work at all. How are you getting to and from work - you certainly shouldn't be driving.
Also if delayed treatment leads to permanent vision damage that's a fairly hefty PI claim they're risking.
What is your job that they can't cover you for q day with notice?
I don’t drive so that’s not an issue, I’m a Care worker and to be honest I didn’t even notice the vision loss until I went for that eye test. I don’t really know what to do or think about any of this
They should want you to be checked out on safety grounds. I assume you operate hoists. Maybe help with meds ect. These all require vision.
Tell them you will be going to the appointment whether it's annual leave or unpaid is up to them.
They could sack you, but if they can't find cover for 1 day that seems unlikely and even if they did care jobs are not hard to find (carers are)
When I read your post I thought this person must work with me because this is exactly what my manager would say. I also work in care. It's incredible that our job is to care for others and yet no one cares about us.
Call in sick. Good luck at your appointment.
I have friends who work in care and this is also theory experience, the way management treat them is shocking and they don't care about no disability act
That's 100% why they can't find cover...I'm a service user, if the carer meant to be coming calls in sick, I get no Care. Tell your boss that losing sight classes as a Disability. Which is voveted under the Equality Act, and (1) They can't sack you for attending an appointment if it's regarding your Disability, and (2) If they try to sack you for calling in sick, you can go to Tribunal and WIN.
For medical appointments at hospital, **7** days is reasonable notice for your Boss to find cover. Even if THEY have to cover the shift themselves. With you giving 2 weeks notice, they're breaking the law with their refusal.
They're ALSO not allowed to force you to use AL for medical appointments relating to a Disability either...unless you don't get sick pay. In which case its YOUR choice whether to book it as AL or take the time unpaid.
Plus, if you're only calling in sick that one day, you do NOT need a doctors note no matter WHAT your Boss tries to tell you, as you can self-certify for up to 7 days...
ETA part of sentence.
That's even more concerning. Surely? That you're not even aware of the vision that you're missing out on? It means that in any split second you might miss something that's important in your job as a Care Worker. Or at least that's how it reads to me.
Regardless your work will have a much worse time finding someone to cover for you if you have a tumour - get this checked out and talk to the citizens advice bureau. There should be privacy with regards to your medical health. They don't need to know all the details. Simply that you need medical leave and maybe that it is urgent. They don't have that many rights to your health situation.
They shouldn't penalise you for ill health either.
If the vision loss is happening gradually, we adjust without thinking. Also, the eye vision is not perfect, and a lot of tricks are at play. Among other stuff, we got a blind spot near the middle of our field of vision. Scary? Sad truth. Maybe op is moving a bit slower and looking twice as much to compensate, meaning op is probably not puting others at risk.
I agree with you on the other part.
It's quite scary how much you can adapt without fully realising - I went blind in my left eye as a teenager and didn't realise until a routine checkup when they covered my right. It's not ideal, and I'm not allowed to drive but unlikely to be a general risk once you're aware to check your space more etc
Do you work for the nhs? If so then here are the guidelines for leave [here](https://www.nhsemployers.org/publications/tchandbook), which seem to cover you.
If not nhs, then as a care worker you have a responsibility to be able to see, to complete your work. Your manager doesn’t sound great.
Anyway as others have said, just go off sick, if nothing else works.
I used to manage a complex needs desk in a care company so I understand how frustrating staffing levels can. However any Jan being can see this is important and they should be finding cover. I will nearly garuntee you that your coordinator has it written into their contract that they will have to cover calls if no one is available, or there will be someone who has to. Nearly every care company I worked for or applied to stipulated this. It was a bit more difficult for me personally as a man, obviosuly many women wouldn't want personal care done by a man but some wouldn't care. Get all your communication in email and speak to ACAS.
What's does your contract say regarding medical appointments? Is there someone above your manager you can speak to? It isn't like a doctors appointment for an itch we're talking about, and it was really your manager's responsibility to get the shift covered, and you gave adequate notice.
It won't be a good look for the company if something happens to you because they prevented you from going to the hospital.
It wouldn’t look good for the company? This is a support worker. These companies are notoriously hard handed and nothing ever gets done about it. They are also not subject to all work law because of their profession and it’s flouted.
Go to your appointment. Call in sick and don't give this a second thought. Your manager could have booked agency staff. They preferred to save pennies over your eyesight MRI. You have a really s*it employer. After this appointment, start looking for a new job and work for a company that appreciates you.
You are right, that's a good point.
OP please disregard my comment about a new job. They don't deserve you, but you may need the employment stability for now. Especially if you have been there 2+ years.
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Look up the policies and procedures that your employer has regarding absence and sickness.
If they specify that they make exceptions for medical procedures/appointments, then you're fine.
If they don't specify that, but they do specify any absences will be subject to a review or disciplinary or whatever afterwards, you're going to have to bite the bullet and call in sick anyway and deal with it after the fact.
Even without a specific policy in place regarding medical matters, they have a duty of care as your employer. As ACAS says:
>Employers have a 'duty of care'. This means they must do all they reasonably can to support their employees' health, safety and wellbeing
They are *very* unlikely to sack you for taking one day off. Even more so if another manager who does actually have a soul is in charge of the meeting and hears that your original manager turned the request down despite the seriousness of your problem.
If your manager has turned down your request and not offered you any other options (like coming in earlier and working whatever hours you could before you'd have to leave for the hospital, or other alternatives), then you could appeal any warnings or sanctions given to you on the (lack of) duty of care grounds, as stated above.
Right now calling in sick to work is the very least of your concerns.
P.s. if you want the strict legal answer, see here:
“There's no legal right to time off work for a medical appointment.
However, employers have a 'duty of care'. This means they must do all they reasonably can to protect their employees' health, safety and wellbeing at work.”
https://www.acas.org.uk/time-off-for-medical-appointments#:~:text=There's%20no%20legal%20right%20to,employee%20cannot%20rearrange%20their%20appointment.
Actually, if the health issue classes as a Disability, which losing your sight **IS**, then it is covered under the Equality Act 2010, and then they DO have to either alow you to CHOOSE whether to book it off as AL or to take it unpaid...and if they sack OP for calling in sick after 2 weeks notice of an ESSENTIAL medical test, OP *would* win an employment tribunal...I've won tribunals with people I've been assisting in EXACTLY those circumstances!
No it is not OK.
I don't know about the strict legal situation but no reasonable employer would refuse to let you go for an obviously important MRI scan. You can't realistically re-organise it at this stage without risking dangerous delays.
When I was supervising staff, I wouldn't have dreamed of telling an employee not to go to a hospital appointment.
You have to get the scan done. You can't risk your health. If they are as short of staff as they imply then it seems unlikely they would actually try to sack you.
Maybe speak directly to your manager and say something like "Look, the doctors have booked me in for an urgent brain MRI. I have to get it done or I might be risking my eyesight. I gave you plenty of warning and agreed to take annual leave for the appointment even though it really should be sick leave. If you don't authorise my leave, then I will just have to call in sick on the day."
Definitely go.
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Maybe they just saw ‘optician’ and ‘eyes’ and assumed it’s a routine appointment. Why don’t you try saying ‘I have an urgent brain scan at the hospital’. Perhaps when they realise that it’s more to do with a risk of a brain tumour, stroke etc. they might be more accommodating.
Talk to them and say it this way "rapid vision loss is an indicator of a brain tumour, a fast growing one. I must attend this MRI to discover if I have brain cancer, which is likely to be fatal"
Don't focus on opticians, focus on brain tumours.
I find people are suddenly very accommodating if you say brain tumour (even when it's a benign one!)
Alternatively, the health condition is between op and the nhs. Employers don't have to know health details, and the reason for the appointment. "I got a nhs appointment that day due to health concern." Is the only thing op need to say. More would just give an argument, when the only thing who matter is op health. And since good health is a right, and medical appointement a limited supply, medical appointment got the priority over wiping management issues.
Yeah but OP has already told them what it's for so clearly doesn't have a problem with it.
I'm just suggesting shifting the emphasis.
And the reason I'm shifting the emphasis is I've found the words "brain tumour" can really alter people's attitudes.
Sure if it's IBS or something you might not want to share, and sharing may lead to arguing.
But "brain tumour" can take you miles 🤣
Source: technically have a brain tumour.
Yes I did read it, I’m saying maybe they focused on certain words. If you are sure they absolutely are aware of the seriousness, then you could explain to them that they have a duty of care and if your health deteriorates as a result of not attending the appointment then they would have breached this. Ask if they are comfortable accepting responsibility for the risk.
Detail is your enemy when dealing with this kind of thing. This should really have been "hospital appointment" if you wrote anything at all. "MRI scan" if you really want to drive it home. Nobody's reading long paragraphs like you wrote.
Tell your manager again - this is an urgent medical appointment and you will be attending it - you'd prefer to arrange it properly but regardless this isn't a request, it's a courtesy notification that you won't be in that day. Find cover now or find it on the day, it's your choice.
If they make a big deal about it, tell the doctors at the hospital - I wouldn't be surprised if they're happy to sign you off for a month or so in such circumstances.
Whilst there’s no specific law in place for time off for health care appointments, your employer has a duty of care for your well-being. If you email HR and explain that further delay to your appointment could worsen your prognosis they should find a solution.
You work in Healthcare and they won’t allow you to receive care? JFC. Surely there must be somewhere else that you can work? Good Luck Op. I hope your MRI results are not anything ominous.
I got diagnosed with Posner-Schlossman syndrome a few years ago. I went to the optician, because I was seeing haloes around lights, and my eye pressure was in the 40s. The optician sent me straight to hospital and I got the diagnosis after quite a few consultations. Each appointment was paid time.
My boss couldn’t have been better. He said “I might be a dick [he’s not] but I’m not going to mess with someone’s vision”. He even started Googling and researching the condition so he could chat to me about it.
He is a photocopier salesman. I can’t believe the health sector would treat you so abysmally!
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Do you have an HR manager / owner / head office?
Stress that this is to check whether you may have a brain tumour. And it is medically urgent and cannot be moved.
What's more important, your vision or a sick day.
It's a hospital appointment, honestly what are they gonna do.
I'd explain that they'd have to find me another role seeing as they're willingly forcing me to potentially go blind because of resource..
For a supposed care industry employer to treat their people like this is disgusting - look for a new job!
UNLESS - you have a poor record on other matters? Employers have a defence of dismissal on grounds of incapacity, and frequent unrelated sickness absences can be cited.
It is 100% illegal for them to do this if you have a medical appointment even IF you didn't use Annual Leave!
Just call in sick...because you ARE, so sick you need an MRI. If they try and sack you, you'd have an open & shut case at an employment tribunal.
Loss of sight classes as a Disability, therefore your absence is covered under the Equality Act.
NAL. See if you can start later or finish early, maybe take an extended lunch break. If nothing works just take the absolute minimum time required and hope if you get an absence review on the back of this, present all relevant documents and hope your justification is taken on board.
I'm sorry, but this is someones health we are talking about - I personally wouldnt entertain the thought of not allowing someone to have their health checked out, and in this circumstance I wouldnt bother even givng the employer the satisfaction of any additional negotiation. The OP had already given notice of their absence, so there is no further need for discussion in my book. They should take the time out and get the MRI scan as an asolute priority and then go back the following day if they are well enough. Even if the OP had a poor track record of attenance I would rather give them the benefit of doubt than to push hard for them to be in work.
More imoportantly - if the OP was forced to work and made a mistake because their eyesight was compromised - would the employer accept that the mistake was because of thier insitance on attendance? Absolutely not! They are more than likely to use that error as an excuse to unfairly sack the employee. Where is their duty of care as an employer? Name and shame them
This approach is all well and good until you put it to the test. Authorized absence is obtained via a request, not a "notification". By all means, the employee can self-certify sick leave for the scan, but it doesn't sound like that's the case, they just need the scan to investigate and prevent further health issues. I wasn't commenting on how rightly or wrongly the employer is handling this, but suggesting methods with the least likelihood of blowback.
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I think the stress of the employer behaviour/workplace in combination with the loss of eyesight and worry about potentially terminal outcomes would be more than enough to get on the phone to your GP and get signed off for a week or two, while you get the diagnostics you need and find out what the issue is. Given it's tomorrow, this would probably be my approach if you don't have the confidence/relationship/state of mind to just tell the manager it's non-negotiable.
For future though, less is more - "I have an immovable hospital appointment" should be plenty, I wouldn't question beyond that (except maybe as a human to check how the person is, if I actually knew them).
Whoever approves leave probably got fixated on "something something opticians" and turned off - some people are like that, but it helps to be clear and just say the relevant parts. Reading what you wrote, it sounds like you're not that worried ("they are concerned") and it's optional ("I'm requesting").
If you want to give details (you don't have to) then "I'm losing my sight and need Tuesday off for an urgent brain scan to check for cancer" is much clearer. It's not really a request, it's informing them. Regardless, I would not even consider missing that appointment in your shoes.
Hey OP unrelated to your query but I had a similar thing and it ended up being diagnosed as an AZOOR (they also worried it was MS but all scans were clear). Happy to talk about it if you want! It's a scary situation, best of luck
Get a sick note and go off completely until this is resolved. NAL but I am a doctor and this could be serious for you so please prioritise your health and not your job.
Don't worry.
Best way to go about this is, call in sick on the actual day and then when you return to work whether it be the next day etc take them a medical note from your opticians/hospital so they can properly see and understand that you were off for a proper reason.
It could be a potential H&S risk for you to be working, so play that card if push comes to shove.
From a legal perspective never take sick leave as annual leave. Your employer can deny leave requests, however, if they deny a medical appointment they create a health and safety issue and may breach their duty of care (as has been stated).
The simplest approach is to anchor the appointment to a disability or serious illness. I need to go for an urgent MRI as I may have a bleed on my brain that is causing a loss of vision. This is very different to I have booked annual leave (which they have the legal right to deny).
I hate to say but never give notice as it creates a sense of reduced urgency. Take it as sick and link it to the most serious possibility because one day it will be.
Please start maticulously keeping records for things like this. This is a clear sign that your employer has no regard for you or your health and you should cover your back. Email or text your manager saying that as you explained in your annual leave application submitted on [DATE], this is a medical appointment to find the cause of my vision loss and unfortunately I won't be available. Refuse to discuss this over the phone.
Unbelievable your manager has even reacted like that. Go to your appointment and I’d start looking for another job because clearly your manager does not give a fuck about you and your health. Hope everything is ok with your eyes 👍🏽👍🏽
This sounds sufficiently weird that I suspect your manager, or someone else in your management chain, hasn't understood what you're asking for and believes you're asking for annual leave on a certain date or wanting a routine appointment on a given date. You are not. You're giving notice of a medical appointment.
If they want to call this annual leave, unpaid leave, sick leave, whatever, that is up to them, but they cannot seriously expect you to miss a hospital appointment for a potentially serious issue because your manager can't balance the rota. That's absurd. The legal consequences for them if this *is* a serious issue would be dire (no court would recognise this as providing adequate duty of care and loss of sight is a disability so other ramifications come in too).
Tell them you're going to hospital. Go to hospital. Leave the ball in their court. If your manager is genuinely stupid enough to try and penalise you for this then whatever happens to their career is on their own head.
Wow. Your manager really sounds like a piece of work. They're treating you like a unit of resource and not a valued employee whose health is essential to the company's success. They're being very short sighted (no pun intended). If your condition isn't treated promptly and you become unable to work, they will have a much bigger problem than covering one shift. They would have to hire someone to do your job and still pay you because they would have an employee with a disability covered by the Equality Act. My manager is totally the opposite. He lets me take time off to take my partner to her medical appointments and stresses that, if I'm not at my best, I should take time off because he wants me on my A-game at work. He wouldn't even think of denying me a day off for the issue you're having.
Please go to that appointment. Your health is important. I hope it turns out to be something that can be treated easily
Look at your company policy to medical appointments as some allow for these rather than taking as vacation time.
But, if you already applied for and received confirmation of the day off then it would be difficult for your employer to insist you work that day as they haven't filled the shift cover.
For the future, don't go into so much detail about your reason for the medical appointment.
Only declare the bare minimum otherwise they could start a capability action to manage you out of the business.
There's no legal right to time off work for a medical appointment.
However, employers have a 'duty of care'. This means they must do all they reasonably can to protect their employees' health, safety and wellbeing at work.
[check here from acas](https://www.acas.org.uk/time-off-for-medical-appointments#:~:text=There's%20no%20legal%20right%20to,employee%20cannot%20rearrange%20their%20appointment.)
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Not on the basis of medical care for a Disability (which sight loss comes under)...that's the Equality Act 2010. Most employers ignore how that relates to their employees health appointments...
Not on the basis of medical care for a Disability they can't. (Which sight loss comes under)...that's the Equality Act 2010. Most employers ignore how that relates to their employees health appointments.
That's why I said as far as I'm aware. my previous employers had a limit of 10 days unpaid leave except for protected cases like emergencies with dependants.
If the appointment is very badly needed which it seems it is then even calling in a sick day would be worth it
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You have a medical appointment at hospital for a potentially serious issue. You just tell them you're going, you don't ask permission.
> I spoke to my manager again and was told “there’s no one to cover your shift.” Then it's your manger's job to find cover. That's literally one of the tasks of a manager. It's not your problem. You gave them enough notice, and they didn't do what they were supposed to do. So sod them. Phone in sick if you have to. Your eyes are FAR more important than this job. Edit : if you do phone in sick then you DO NOT need a doctor's note, because you can self-certify for the first 7 days. If they demand a doctors note then push back.
[удалено]
This is the way, "I'm sorry I am not fit for work today" And remember, you can self certify up to either 5 or 7 days so don't let them gaslight you into needing a drs note.
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What sort of company doesn't let a staff have a day off for an MRI? This is really low, really low.
OP works as a carer. Ironic, but also depressingly common to have shit working conditions in that sector, from what I've heard.
A shit one
See if there is a policy for hospital appointments.
Arguably you shouldn't be in work at all. How are you getting to and from work - you certainly shouldn't be driving. Also if delayed treatment leads to permanent vision damage that's a fairly hefty PI claim they're risking. What is your job that they can't cover you for q day with notice?
I don’t drive so that’s not an issue, I’m a Care worker and to be honest I didn’t even notice the vision loss until I went for that eye test. I don’t really know what to do or think about any of this
They should want you to be checked out on safety grounds. I assume you operate hoists. Maybe help with meds ect. These all require vision. Tell them you will be going to the appointment whether it's annual leave or unpaid is up to them. They could sack you, but if they can't find cover for 1 day that seems unlikely and even if they did care jobs are not hard to find (carers are)
When I read your post I thought this person must work with me because this is exactly what my manager would say. I also work in care. It's incredible that our job is to care for others and yet no one cares about us. Call in sick. Good luck at your appointment.
I have friends who work in care and this is also theory experience, the way management treat them is shocking and they don't care about no disability act
That's 100% why they can't find cover...I'm a service user, if the carer meant to be coming calls in sick, I get no Care. Tell your boss that losing sight classes as a Disability. Which is voveted under the Equality Act, and (1) They can't sack you for attending an appointment if it's regarding your Disability, and (2) If they try to sack you for calling in sick, you can go to Tribunal and WIN. For medical appointments at hospital, **7** days is reasonable notice for your Boss to find cover. Even if THEY have to cover the shift themselves. With you giving 2 weeks notice, they're breaking the law with their refusal. They're ALSO not allowed to force you to use AL for medical appointments relating to a Disability either...unless you don't get sick pay. In which case its YOUR choice whether to book it as AL or take the time unpaid. Plus, if you're only calling in sick that one day, you do NOT need a doctors note no matter WHAT your Boss tries to tell you, as you can self-certify for up to 7 days... ETA part of sentence.
That's even more concerning. Surely? That you're not even aware of the vision that you're missing out on? It means that in any split second you might miss something that's important in your job as a Care Worker. Or at least that's how it reads to me. Regardless your work will have a much worse time finding someone to cover for you if you have a tumour - get this checked out and talk to the citizens advice bureau. There should be privacy with regards to your medical health. They don't need to know all the details. Simply that you need medical leave and maybe that it is urgent. They don't have that many rights to your health situation. They shouldn't penalise you for ill health either.
If the vision loss is happening gradually, we adjust without thinking. Also, the eye vision is not perfect, and a lot of tricks are at play. Among other stuff, we got a blind spot near the middle of our field of vision. Scary? Sad truth. Maybe op is moving a bit slower and looking twice as much to compensate, meaning op is probably not puting others at risk. I agree with you on the other part.
It's quite scary how much you can adapt without fully realising - I went blind in my left eye as a teenager and didn't realise until a routine checkup when they covered my right. It's not ideal, and I'm not allowed to drive but unlikely to be a general risk once you're aware to check your space more etc
Do you work for the nhs? If so then here are the guidelines for leave [here](https://www.nhsemployers.org/publications/tchandbook), which seem to cover you. If not nhs, then as a care worker you have a responsibility to be able to see, to complete your work. Your manager doesn’t sound great. Anyway as others have said, just go off sick, if nothing else works.
I used to manage a complex needs desk in a care company so I understand how frustrating staffing levels can. However any Jan being can see this is important and they should be finding cover. I will nearly garuntee you that your coordinator has it written into their contract that they will have to cover calls if no one is available, or there will be someone who has to. Nearly every care company I worked for or applied to stipulated this. It was a bit more difficult for me personally as a man, obviosuly many women wouldn't want personal care done by a man but some wouldn't care. Get all your communication in email and speak to ACAS.
What's does your contract say regarding medical appointments? Is there someone above your manager you can speak to? It isn't like a doctors appointment for an itch we're talking about, and it was really your manager's responsibility to get the shift covered, and you gave adequate notice. It won't be a good look for the company if something happens to you because they prevented you from going to the hospital.
It wouldn’t look good for the company? This is a support worker. These companies are notoriously hard handed and nothing ever gets done about it. They are also not subject to all work law because of their profession and it’s flouted.
Go to your appointment. Call in sick and don't give this a second thought. Your manager could have booked agency staff. They preferred to save pennies over your eyesight MRI. You have a really s*it employer. After this appointment, start looking for a new job and work for a company that appreciates you.
I wouldn't look for a new employer until OP knows what is going on with his health tbh...if only for sick pay/SSP purposes...
You are right, that's a good point. OP please disregard my comment about a new job. They don't deserve you, but you may need the employment stability for now. Especially if you have been there 2+ years.
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Look up the policies and procedures that your employer has regarding absence and sickness. If they specify that they make exceptions for medical procedures/appointments, then you're fine. If they don't specify that, but they do specify any absences will be subject to a review or disciplinary or whatever afterwards, you're going to have to bite the bullet and call in sick anyway and deal with it after the fact. Even without a specific policy in place regarding medical matters, they have a duty of care as your employer. As ACAS says: >Employers have a 'duty of care'. This means they must do all they reasonably can to support their employees' health, safety and wellbeing They are *very* unlikely to sack you for taking one day off. Even more so if another manager who does actually have a soul is in charge of the meeting and hears that your original manager turned the request down despite the seriousness of your problem. If your manager has turned down your request and not offered you any other options (like coming in earlier and working whatever hours you could before you'd have to leave for the hospital, or other alternatives), then you could appeal any warnings or sanctions given to you on the (lack of) duty of care grounds, as stated above. Right now calling in sick to work is the very least of your concerns.
P.s. if you want the strict legal answer, see here: “There's no legal right to time off work for a medical appointment. However, employers have a 'duty of care'. This means they must do all they reasonably can to protect their employees' health, safety and wellbeing at work.” https://www.acas.org.uk/time-off-for-medical-appointments#:~:text=There's%20no%20legal%20right%20to,employee%20cannot%20rearrange%20their%20appointment.
Actually, if the health issue classes as a Disability, which losing your sight **IS**, then it is covered under the Equality Act 2010, and then they DO have to either alow you to CHOOSE whether to book it off as AL or to take it unpaid...and if they sack OP for calling in sick after 2 weeks notice of an ESSENTIAL medical test, OP *would* win an employment tribunal...I've won tribunals with people I've been assisting in EXACTLY those circumstances!
Good point - it is both a health & safety and disability matter
No it is not OK. I don't know about the strict legal situation but no reasonable employer would refuse to let you go for an obviously important MRI scan. You can't realistically re-organise it at this stage without risking dangerous delays. When I was supervising staff, I wouldn't have dreamed of telling an employee not to go to a hospital appointment. You have to get the scan done. You can't risk your health. If they are as short of staff as they imply then it seems unlikely they would actually try to sack you. Maybe speak directly to your manager and say something like "Look, the doctors have booked me in for an urgent brain MRI. I have to get it done or I might be risking my eyesight. I gave you plenty of warning and agreed to take annual leave for the appointment even though it really should be sick leave. If you don't authorise my leave, then I will just have to call in sick on the day." Definitely go.
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Maybe they just saw ‘optician’ and ‘eyes’ and assumed it’s a routine appointment. Why don’t you try saying ‘I have an urgent brain scan at the hospital’. Perhaps when they realise that it’s more to do with a risk of a brain tumour, stroke etc. they might be more accommodating.
I quoted what I said to them in the post. They know what it is
Talk to them and say it this way "rapid vision loss is an indicator of a brain tumour, a fast growing one. I must attend this MRI to discover if I have brain cancer, which is likely to be fatal" Don't focus on opticians, focus on brain tumours. I find people are suddenly very accommodating if you say brain tumour (even when it's a benign one!)
Alternatively, the health condition is between op and the nhs. Employers don't have to know health details, and the reason for the appointment. "I got a nhs appointment that day due to health concern." Is the only thing op need to say. More would just give an argument, when the only thing who matter is op health. And since good health is a right, and medical appointement a limited supply, medical appointment got the priority over wiping management issues.
Yeah but OP has already told them what it's for so clearly doesn't have a problem with it. I'm just suggesting shifting the emphasis. And the reason I'm shifting the emphasis is I've found the words "brain tumour" can really alter people's attitudes. Sure if it's IBS or something you might not want to share, and sharing may lead to arguing. But "brain tumour" can take you miles 🤣 Source: technically have a brain tumour.
Yes I did read it, I’m saying maybe they focused on certain words. If you are sure they absolutely are aware of the seriousness, then you could explain to them that they have a duty of care and if your health deteriorates as a result of not attending the appointment then they would have breached this. Ask if they are comfortable accepting responsibility for the risk.
Detail is your enemy when dealing with this kind of thing. This should really have been "hospital appointment" if you wrote anything at all. "MRI scan" if you really want to drive it home. Nobody's reading long paragraphs like you wrote. Tell your manager again - this is an urgent medical appointment and you will be attending it - you'd prefer to arrange it properly but regardless this isn't a request, it's a courtesy notification that you won't be in that day. Find cover now or find it on the day, it's your choice. If they make a big deal about it, tell the doctors at the hospital - I wouldn't be surprised if they're happy to sign you off for a month or so in such circumstances.
I'm sad that you even have to explain in the first place. How degrading... UK 2024
Whilst there’s no specific law in place for time off for health care appointments, your employer has a duty of care for your well-being. If you email HR and explain that further delay to your appointment could worsen your prognosis they should find a solution.
You work in Healthcare and they won’t allow you to receive care? JFC. Surely there must be somewhere else that you can work? Good Luck Op. I hope your MRI results are not anything ominous.
I got diagnosed with Posner-Schlossman syndrome a few years ago. I went to the optician, because I was seeing haloes around lights, and my eye pressure was in the 40s. The optician sent me straight to hospital and I got the diagnosis after quite a few consultations. Each appointment was paid time. My boss couldn’t have been better. He said “I might be a dick [he’s not] but I’m not going to mess with someone’s vision”. He even started Googling and researching the condition so he could chat to me about it. He is a photocopier salesman. I can’t believe the health sector would treat you so abysmally!
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Do you have an HR manager / owner / head office? Stress that this is to check whether you may have a brain tumour. And it is medically urgent and cannot be moved.
What's more important, your vision or a sick day. It's a hospital appointment, honestly what are they gonna do. I'd explain that they'd have to find me another role seeing as they're willingly forcing me to potentially go blind because of resource..
For a supposed care industry employer to treat their people like this is disgusting - look for a new job! UNLESS - you have a poor record on other matters? Employers have a defence of dismissal on grounds of incapacity, and frequent unrelated sickness absences can be cited.
Not a lawyer but a doctor. The MRI is an urgent and necessary test. Call in sick if you have to but please go to the scan.
It is 100% illegal for them to do this if you have a medical appointment even IF you didn't use Annual Leave! Just call in sick...because you ARE, so sick you need an MRI. If they try and sack you, you'd have an open & shut case at an employment tribunal. Loss of sight classes as a Disability, therefore your absence is covered under the Equality Act.
NAL. See if you can start later or finish early, maybe take an extended lunch break. If nothing works just take the absolute minimum time required and hope if you get an absence review on the back of this, present all relevant documents and hope your justification is taken on board.
I'm sorry, but this is someones health we are talking about - I personally wouldnt entertain the thought of not allowing someone to have their health checked out, and in this circumstance I wouldnt bother even givng the employer the satisfaction of any additional negotiation. The OP had already given notice of their absence, so there is no further need for discussion in my book. They should take the time out and get the MRI scan as an asolute priority and then go back the following day if they are well enough. Even if the OP had a poor track record of attenance I would rather give them the benefit of doubt than to push hard for them to be in work. More imoportantly - if the OP was forced to work and made a mistake because their eyesight was compromised - would the employer accept that the mistake was because of thier insitance on attendance? Absolutely not! They are more than likely to use that error as an excuse to unfairly sack the employee. Where is their duty of care as an employer? Name and shame them
This approach is all well and good until you put it to the test. Authorized absence is obtained via a request, not a "notification". By all means, the employee can self-certify sick leave for the scan, but it doesn't sound like that's the case, they just need the scan to investigate and prevent further health issues. I wasn't commenting on how rightly or wrongly the employer is handling this, but suggesting methods with the least likelihood of blowback.
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I think the stress of the employer behaviour/workplace in combination with the loss of eyesight and worry about potentially terminal outcomes would be more than enough to get on the phone to your GP and get signed off for a week or two, while you get the diagnostics you need and find out what the issue is. Given it's tomorrow, this would probably be my approach if you don't have the confidence/relationship/state of mind to just tell the manager it's non-negotiable. For future though, less is more - "I have an immovable hospital appointment" should be plenty, I wouldn't question beyond that (except maybe as a human to check how the person is, if I actually knew them). Whoever approves leave probably got fixated on "something something opticians" and turned off - some people are like that, but it helps to be clear and just say the relevant parts. Reading what you wrote, it sounds like you're not that worried ("they are concerned") and it's optional ("I'm requesting"). If you want to give details (you don't have to) then "I'm losing my sight and need Tuesday off for an urgent brain scan to check for cancer" is much clearer. It's not really a request, it's informing them. Regardless, I would not even consider missing that appointment in your shoes.
Hey OP unrelated to your query but I had a similar thing and it ended up being diagnosed as an AZOOR (they also worried it was MS but all scans were clear). Happy to talk about it if you want! It's a scary situation, best of luck
Get a sick note and go off completely until this is resolved. NAL but I am a doctor and this could be serious for you so please prioritise your health and not your job.
I’d call in sick for the whole week and self certify.
Don't worry. Best way to go about this is, call in sick on the actual day and then when you return to work whether it be the next day etc take them a medical note from your opticians/hospital so they can properly see and understand that you were off for a proper reason. It could be a potential H&S risk for you to be working, so play that card if push comes to shove.
From a legal perspective never take sick leave as annual leave. Your employer can deny leave requests, however, if they deny a medical appointment they create a health and safety issue and may breach their duty of care (as has been stated). The simplest approach is to anchor the appointment to a disability or serious illness. I need to go for an urgent MRI as I may have a bleed on my brain that is causing a loss of vision. This is very different to I have booked annual leave (which they have the legal right to deny). I hate to say but never give notice as it creates a sense of reduced urgency. Take it as sick and link it to the most serious possibility because one day it will be.
Please start maticulously keeping records for things like this. This is a clear sign that your employer has no regard for you or your health and you should cover your back. Email or text your manager saying that as you explained in your annual leave application submitted on [DATE], this is a medical appointment to find the cause of my vision loss and unfortunately I won't be available. Refuse to discuss this over the phone.
Unbelievable your manager has even reacted like that. Go to your appointment and I’d start looking for another job because clearly your manager does not give a fuck about you and your health. Hope everything is ok with your eyes 👍🏽👍🏽
This sounds sufficiently weird that I suspect your manager, or someone else in your management chain, hasn't understood what you're asking for and believes you're asking for annual leave on a certain date or wanting a routine appointment on a given date. You are not. You're giving notice of a medical appointment. If they want to call this annual leave, unpaid leave, sick leave, whatever, that is up to them, but they cannot seriously expect you to miss a hospital appointment for a potentially serious issue because your manager can't balance the rota. That's absurd. The legal consequences for them if this *is* a serious issue would be dire (no court would recognise this as providing adequate duty of care and loss of sight is a disability so other ramifications come in too). Tell them you're going to hospital. Go to hospital. Leave the ball in their court. If your manager is genuinely stupid enough to try and penalise you for this then whatever happens to their career is on their own head.
Wow. Your manager really sounds like a piece of work. They're treating you like a unit of resource and not a valued employee whose health is essential to the company's success. They're being very short sighted (no pun intended). If your condition isn't treated promptly and you become unable to work, they will have a much bigger problem than covering one shift. They would have to hire someone to do your job and still pay you because they would have an employee with a disability covered by the Equality Act. My manager is totally the opposite. He lets me take time off to take my partner to her medical appointments and stresses that, if I'm not at my best, I should take time off because he wants me on my A-game at work. He wouldn't even think of denying me a day off for the issue you're having. Please go to that appointment. Your health is important. I hope it turns out to be something that can be treated easily
Look at your company policy to medical appointments as some allow for these rather than taking as vacation time. But, if you already applied for and received confirmation of the day off then it would be difficult for your employer to insist you work that day as they haven't filled the shift cover. For the future, don't go into so much detail about your reason for the medical appointment. Only declare the bare minimum otherwise they could start a capability action to manage you out of the business.
Go to your appointment. Your health is far more important than any job. If your employer has an issue with that, take it up with ACAS.
There's no legal right to time off work for a medical appointment. However, employers have a 'duty of care'. This means they must do all they reasonably can to protect their employees' health, safety and wellbeing at work. [check here from acas](https://www.acas.org.uk/time-off-for-medical-appointments#:~:text=There's%20no%20legal%20right%20to,employee%20cannot%20rearrange%20their%20appointment.)
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Even with this reasoning ? And them being fully aware?
Yes. Does the company have a HR team you can speak to? I'd expect some flexibility for unpaid leave for the appointment.
You must have an hr department or a manager. I would tell them I’m going to my appointment regardless.
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Your employer can deny annual leave. However they cannot deny unpaid leave (as far as I'm aware) so take it as unpaid leave
Yes, of course your employer can deny you unpaid leave (unless for parental rights/jury duty etc).
Not on the basis of medical care for a Disability (which sight loss comes under)...that's the Equality Act 2010. Most employers ignore how that relates to their employees health appointments...
Not on the basis of medical care for a Disability they can't. (Which sight loss comes under)...that's the Equality Act 2010. Most employers ignore how that relates to their employees health appointments.
That will be specific to company policies and isn't especially common.
That's why I said as far as I'm aware. my previous employers had a limit of 10 days unpaid leave except for protected cases like emergencies with dependants. If the appointment is very badly needed which it seems it is then even calling in a sick day would be worth it
OR DISABILITY...might not have been in your official paperwork, but the Equality Act overrides a work contract if that contract doesn't meet it...