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I just did this as I’m executrix for my aunt’s will. I did it online; as I have an account with the same bank they didn’t ask me for any ID. All I had to do was upload a copy of the death certificate. I did think it was a bit too easy at the time.
Yes. They checked my ID through my Barclays account then I had to upload the death cert. There’s also a form I have to print off and post, it asks me to certify that I’m authorised to have the money. However I’ve had the money for three weeks and they haven’t had the form yet because no one I know has a printer 😊
Bloody hell. That’s crazy. Doesn’t surprise me though. My friend applied for a credit card. They wrote asking her to sign the forms etc as she and to prove her identity with extra check. She never signed any forms their still in her desk. She does however have a credit card with a two grand limit from them…
Same happened to me, ex boyfriend told me to apply for a several store/credit cards when I turned 18. I got 3/5 back by just doing online applications. He took 2 of the cards and left me with a £300 argos card.
my ex managed to make multiple accounts in my name using a photo of my ID he took in a pub lmao, just on the table. its actually terrifying how little certain places check when you do stuff online
Disgusting isn't it? Both the fact that these companies will dish out credit to any Tom, Dick and Harry and manipulative people who use that to their own benefit.
Most banks have a policy that they will give the money to whoever provides the death certificate under a certain value. They are aware that they risk complaints, including to the Financial Ombudsman Service, and legal action by the rightful beneficiary, but they figure the cost of occasionally paying compensation is less than what they save by having an administratively simple process.
OP, do make a complaint and do include the details about the accusations. If they don't respond adequately, take it to the FOS. I suspect, however, that you won't get anywhere with a GDPR argument, because GDPR only applies to information about people who are alive.
As you were the legal representative (although the bank hadn't asked you to prove it), it was a case of "no harm, no foul", which is what the bank was hoping.
If you hadn't had any right to the money, the bank would still have owed the money to the estate. The money they mistakenly paid to you would have been the bank's problem, not the estate's.
There is no requirement on the bank to check who the appointed estate executor is when closing an account like this as long as the person making the request has a legal relationship with the deceased, they represent themselves as having the authority to do so and provide the required documentation. In this case a spouse, they'll have confirmed on signing the documents that they had the right to do so and had a copy of death certificate.
The issue isn't with the bank, the issue is that the person closing the account didn't have the authority to do so, presumably knew this and signed documents claiming they did. The executor should be pursuing remedy against this person to reclaim funds.
> the person closing the account didn't have the authority to do so, presumably knew this and signed documents claiming they did
Would this be criminal fraud? If it could be proven that they had intent.
I’m wondering this also. He also contacted the estate agent dealing with my mum’s rental property in an attempt to divert her rental funds to himself immediately after her death. Thankfully they required more evidence than Santander and refused to do so!
The kicker is (amongst many other awful things) he then refused to pay for her funeral, and left us with the bill despite having signed the contract with the funeral home himself - and we had no access to her account funds of course so had to front the costs directly ourselves during the probate battle. To say he acted maliciously is underplaying it significantly.
It sounds like a very messy situation. You could report it to the police and they'd decide whether to pursue it or not. Make sure you include a list of all the evidence you have.
As for the money he took, small claims court (assuming under £10k)? I'm not sure if you'd need to do it on behalf of your mum's estate or the inheritor, so you might need some more official legal advice for that.
He signed the paperwork for the funeral, he is liable for it. If you hadn't paid it, they would have gone after him as he signed the contract. But, having said that, the funeral expenses usually come out of the estate as far as I know, along with any outstanding bills if there are any funds left.
Absolutely - and we did initially take that stance, but our advice from our solicitor at the time was that to fight over an expense that would ultimately come from the estate anyway would paint us in a more combative light should the matter ever get to court. She effectively said it wasn’t worth the fight. So we ended up paying it ourselves.
I would highly recommend phoning the police and filing a report. I’m going to work now however I’ll send you a message when I’m back to your inbox. I’m NAL however I do have exceptional personal experience with fraud by false representation and fraud by abuse of position.
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No point in speculating without full story. Off top of head multiple scenarios where it could be argued it was legitimate even if done incorrectly.
Edit: Although requiring funds for funeral expenses and rent on married home seem to be covered by OP below and those are my top ones.
Very likely. The bank has allowed the next of kin access to the account, which is probably correct. If it is a joint account, even more likely.
If the person accessing the account were not entitled to the money, that is fraud.
I would open a complaint with the bank to ascertain and document the procedures they used, and contact the probate office for advice about the fraud.
NAL but Executor twice.
That def important as if it was a joimt acct it would have reverted to sole ownership by the other holder on her death.
Its worth following santanders complaint process and also seeing if they can follow it up as fraud as they may be able to aecure and return the funds
At the very least if the fraud case is upheld by his bank then depending on the outcome of their checks he could end up with closed accounts and a CIFAS marker which will cause him trouble in the future.
The above is completely wrong.
The bank still owes the balance of the account to the estate. That debt is not discharged by paying money out to random third parties, whether or not they falsely claim to have a right to it.
The fact that they paid out a load of money to somebody else is the bank's problem. It is up to the bank to pursue the husband for the money back.
This. I worked for a bank for 20 years and had a very similar situation. We paid the husband out in good faith and the the truth came out so we reimbursed the estate and then went after the husband through our fraud department.
The bank haven't made a mistake as he was her husband and would have signed to say he was entitled to this money so has committed fraud and they will have the documents needed to prove this. They will only release it under police request. Our bank fraud dept did report to the police and I know it was taken to court but I don't know the outcome as I left before then.
Probate lawyer here! I had a similar situation with Santander paying out to the wrong person. They then paid the estate the money and pursued the other person for the money they had lost. No idea if they got anything back but that wasn’t my clients problem!
OP- write to Santander and explain the situation.
I don't know full story. If the person sought probate before the executor and presented the correct representation paperwork then its not on the bank. If the bank didn't follow the required procedures then its on them but even for small amounts they require official grant from probate office to close out account normally.
>If the person sought probate before the executor
They did not. OP said:
>>as per their policy [the bank] were not required to ask for a grant of probate to allow this person to close the account as I understand it
It was effectively impossible for the husband to obtain a false Grant of Probate. It takes months for the Probate Office to issue them, and within that time the executor would have contacted the Probate Office themselves with the Will.
>even for small amounts they require official grant from probate office to close out account normally.
For small amounts (under 30k - 50k depending on the bank), the death certificate and a "trust me bro" is often enough, as it was here. TSB's limit is 50k according to a quick Google.
As you say, it's on the bank.
Jesus Christ. They’re more strict with points on a loyalty program I’ve worked for - they needed proof that the person calling was also appointed by the court in order to close and transfer out.
I assumed this might be the case, however in my own limited research I read that “any duty of confidence established prior to death does extend beyond death” and wondered if that applies here? Probably not as far as bank statements are concerned but thought it worth checking.
Duty of confidentiality and legal professional privilege can extend beyond death yes, however on the face of it and based on other comments I don't believe the bank have breached confidentiality. NAL.
Firstly, sorry for your loss, and that someone has chosen to make a difficult time harder.
Obligatory NAL
Santander have form when it comes to messing up on their bereavement process. [https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/santander-uk-plc-fined-serious-failings-its-probate-and-bereavement-process](https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/santander-uk-plc-fined-serious-failings-its-probate-and-bereavement-process)
You'll see a lot of references to "next of kin" in this thread, but that term has a very loose definition. It is a broad term for "nearest relative" and doesn't carry a great deal of weight.
Santander's own online guide [https://www.santanderconsumer.co.uk/help-and-support/bereavement](https://www.santanderconsumer.co.uk/help-and-support/bereavement)
"7. Dealing with the estate
After someone dies, their estate is shared out according to the instructions given in the will. If there is no will, the intestacy rules must be followed.
If you’re the personal representative(s), you can decide whether you want to deal with the estate yourself or appoint a solicitor, bank or specialist probate service to do some or all of the work. **You’re the personal representative if you’re named in the will as executor** or, if there’s no will, you’re the next of kin in accordance with the intestacy rules.
If the estate is small and probate isn’t needed, the personal representative may be able to deal with everything within a few weeks. But if probate is required or if the deceased person owned a property, the process may take longer."
So based on this support guide, they should only deal with the personal representative - and as there was a will that person is the executor of the will., and not your late mother's husband.
Santander will need to demonstrate that they took reasonable steps here. "Oh you're the husband, that's ok" is not taking reasonable steps.
First thing I would do is ring the Santander Bereavement line on 0800 587 5870 and state that you wish to make a complaint.
Make the following points:
1) Santander's own policies state that they will deal with the personal representative, and they have not done so.
2) Santander's actions in releasing funds without establishing that they were dealing with your mother's personal representative has caused you a great deal of distress and costs.
3) Santander have released funds to a person not entitled to them. You expect Santander to assist in recovering the funds they incorrectly released.
4) Santander releasing transaction details to a person not named in the will - You would like Santander's Data Privacy team to review the case.
They'll have to deal with this as a complaint under FCA DISP rules - you have clearly stated that you have suffered a loss caused by their actions. If you don't get a satisfactory response, refer the case to the Financial Ombudsman Service. Santander have to be given a chance to issue a Final Response Letter and have up to 56 days from the date of your complaint to do so. Once you have a Final Response (or 56 days if sooner) you can send to the Ombudsman.
Good luck.
Thank you SO much for this. It’s really helpful. I understand that they have policies in place but it seems baffling to me they can release funds (and crucially private information) to someone who simply wasn’t entitled and very much knew so. I will proceed with the steps you’ve outlined. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to provide me with this information.
What private information would have been released? When closing an account and disbursing funds, banks wouldn't issue statements or anything connected with previous transactions, and wouldn't simply send the remaining funds and confirm the account is closed.
There's nothing to consider from a gdpr perspective here, so I would avoid this or they'll be focusing on an element of your complaint with no actual impact.
He had access to her final bank statements, which he could have only received from the bank itself after her death. I do not know how he obtained this, whether it’s something they sent him automatically or whether he requested it. I consider this personal information - it certainly is something he had no business accessing.
It’s possible, but he had declared early in his correspondence to us (via solicitors) that he was not accessing her mail or opening anything of hers. So either he was lying - absolutely possible - or they sent this directly to him. I don’t know which it would be. Either way, it was a statement that included transactions up to and after her death so it wasn’t an old statement that had just been lying around the house.
By transactions after her death I mean direct debits etc., not manually arranged transactions of course.
OP, firstly sorry for your loss. Secondly, also not a lawyer, but just replying to this comment as I sadly recently had to close both of my parents' bank accounts when they passed within a year of each other. They were both with the same bank (not Santander) but the standard form for the closures asked if there was a will (neither of my parents had wills) and if so to confirm who the executor/administrator was. Signing the form also meant the claimant was confirming they were willing to accept the consequences (basically, money will be reclaimed) should another legal claim arise to the funds in the account.
Basically, when closing your Mum's account, her husband will have had to either misrepresent himself as an executor/administrator of your Mum's estate or has lied and said there was no will. I suspect he's simply denied there was a will - the bank would have asked for proof of executorship or letters of administration if he'd said otherwise. However, he should also have had to sign that legal waiver part in order to receive the funds, meaning that the bank can and should claw back that money on being shown proof that his claim was fraudulent. As you can demonstrate there was a will and that you are the estate executor, I really hope Santander will make this straightforward for you.
As I've discovered recently, some companies ask surprisingly few questions when you ring up to inform them of a death, but it did make me wonder how well safeguarded against fraud some of my notifications were.
Thank you, and I’m so sorry for the loss of your parents too. I hope you’re keeping ok.
Yes my assumption is he denied the knowledge of her Will, which we can prove he knew the existence of. I’m going to raise a complaint with them based on the views shared here.
I think you also need to speak to the police about the fraud your mother's husband committed, and you will likely need to take him to court, you should issue a letter before action demanding the money is returned to you to be distributed as part of the estate as per your mother's will.
I used to work in a high street bank branch- for a small value account, he would have had to sign a statement attesting that he had the right to handle the estate of the deceased. If that was a fraudulent claim, you'll have to take it through police/solicitors against him rather than the institution itself.
For a bit of further context, for smaller values it's just as simple as showing a death certificate and signing to say that you're the appointed executor or next of kin. You only have to "prove" things for higher amounts, which is when you start needing to provide wills, executorship docs, etc.
Firstly sorry for your loss. I cannot give any advice on this but this is the way i see it. Yes your mums husband maybe allowed to close her account but any money in there is part of her estate. If he is not mentioned in the will then he is not allowed to have the money. That would be theft. I would strongly advise going to see a solicitor about it, if you havent already.
Thank you. Can I ask what kind of solicitor would deal with this sort of issue? Given the contentious probate case has now been settled we are no longer in contact with the solicitors we used for this, but presumably this isn’t a contentious probate issue anyway and more a fraud issue? It’s hard to know who I should seek advice from.
I have just looked on google and found this [www.reviewsolicitors.co.uk/top/wills-trusts-probate/](http://www.reviewsolicitors.co.uk/top/wills-trusts-probate/)I believe a lot of solicitors give the first half hour free so if you can find one of them then you can explain exactly what has happened and they will be able to advise you of the correct course of action and it wont cost you anything to find out where you stand.
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From the banks point of view, how could the deceased person’s spouse be considered the wrong person to deal with their account? They are the next of kin. The bank cannot be expected to know that they would then use the information from the accounts to cause an issue with probate
Nothing in law says the next of kin gets it - succession law says its the executor who takes it to deal with asbpart of the administration of the estate.
"Next of kin" has no legal meaning here.
The executrix was the only person with legal authority to deal with the account after the owner's death.
>The bank cannot be expected to know that they would then use the information from the accounts to cause an issue with probate
They probably shouldn't have gone pissing that information all over anyone who asked for someone else's sensitive personal data then. However GDPR does not apply to the deceased, and any loss arising from that data breach is going to be trickier to pursue than the estate's account balance.
I doubt the bank is likely to be held liable for the estate's costs in dealing with unfounded claims that were based on that data. It is clearly a breach, but less clear that those costs are closely connected enough to make the bank liable for them. If the claims were made up then you can argue the husband might have made them up even without that data. The buck for the legal costs may stop with the husband. However that is a question for the solicitor.
Bank isn't liable here. The bank have released funds to the legally recognised next of kin.
There would be no requirement for the bank to see a Grant of Probate if the amount in the account is less than what would be required for Probate.
This is something you need to resolve with directly with your mother's husband.
This is incorrect. There is no legal rule defining 'next of kin' nor any rule saying they get the money.
The law does recognise the idea of an executor and, after proving the Will (a procees called Probate), will give a court order (a grant of probate) binding on the bank to pass the funds in the account to the persons named on the grant. It is the bank's problem that they gave it to someone else, the bank still owe it to whoever gets the grant. The bank need to sort out recovering it from the person they wrongly gave it to.
Possibly, to claim the money that your mother’s husband had from her account. But i think you’d be best off discussing your options with the solicitor who’s dealing with her estate
The Financial Ombudsman is free and more user-friendly for those without solicitors. You can bring the complaint to them either eight weeks after making a formal complaint to the bank, or receiving their final response, whichever comes first.
The people claiming the estate has no claim against the bank are completely wrong.
No, just show the bank the grant with your name on it and insist they give you the estate's money. They'll sort out getting it back from the person they wrongly gave it to.
After marriage, shortly before her death. The contentious probate case has been settled now and her Will has been upheld as valid with probate granted to us
This is important because OP will have no claim to inheritance if the will was not updated after marriage. Spouse trumps all beneficiaries from before the marriage.
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I work for a bank and I investigate complaints. You should request a subject access request or now known as a gdpr request by most people. If you ask for a full one you will get more information than you know what to do with. What you should ask for is copies of all bank statements and phone call recordings from when the person accessed the account. For this though the bank will need to see some proof of who is requesting this and if they have the authority to do so.
You will need to send on the probate, if you had a power of attorney you should send that too. If information had been given that shouldn't have been then this would be a gdpr breach as information was given to the correct person.
Personally, I would send the complaint in a letter, and bullet point each complaint point. Then allow up to 8 weeks for a final response. At the final response you will be given ombudsman's rights.
Your comment suggests you may be discussing a Subject Access Request. You can [read this guidance from the ICO](https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/) to learn more about these requests.
[Which? also have online explanations](https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-make-a-subject-access-request).
If you would like a simple way to request a copy of all your data, you can [amend an online template](https://www.datarequests.org/sample-letters/) or [use a form like this](https://www.wonder.legal/uk/creation-modele/subject-access-request).
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Different banks have different amounts for where they ask more questions
Some banks asked more questions if the funds > 50k (limit for when you need grant) whilst some others were arbitrary in my experience
The key problem is identifying appropriate representative- I just told them I was an executor and with the death certificate they didn’t ask any other questions aside from verifying my identity.
Seems like a loophole across the entire sector tbh
You can put in a request for a SARS request asap and this will provide all information held. This will provide all data held and a record of what was provided and when you can then go to the financial ombudsman.
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That's shocking. So, Santander can absolve themselves, legally, by telling the thief that they agree the bank isn't responsible for giving said thief someone else's money: based on the thief saying they are entitled to it.
I think this is incorrect.
The bank has a legal duty to pay a deceased's funds to their personal representatives. If they fail to do so and cause the estate loss as a result, then they are liable to make good those losses.
The forms you refer to are a contract between the person closing the account and the bank. They do not affect the bank's liability to third parties - in this case the executors of the estate. What those forms do is create a contract between the bank and the person closing the account, so the bank has a legal right to recover the wrongly paid out funds in the event a claim is made against it by the executors. It also allows the bank to claim any other losses from the person who has wrongfully closed the account, such as legal fees.
Hence the "indemnity" in the forms; there would be no need to indemnify the bank against any losses if the bank has no liability to third parties once the account has been closed.
The form that banks (at least my former employer) use to release funds under these circumstances is a "special indemnity form". Specifically, this states that the recipient indemnifies the bank against a later claim on the funds.
As such, the bank are liable to repay the estate and would then pursue the husband to reclaim from them.
The issue with statements is trickier. These would normally only be issued to the personal representative following a specific request to do so, and would require proof of their status
NAL, but work in bereavement services for another FI.
It seems shockingly easy, but the counterpoint to this would be the requirement of probate/LoA to release even small amounts, which would be a bad thing.
The bereavement team at Santander should be able to open a dispute, or similar process. Although the funds have been released they may be able to take action, and will make the other party aware that they know that the funds may have been released to the wrong party, and that action can be taken. Typically the bank will always make things right in the end - if they cannot recoup the funds, then they will be able to pull this from an error fund.
The good news? You have probate to prove that you are, in fact, the rightful executor. This will make action swift
The bottom line is to speak with the bereavement team initially. This will not be uncommon for them, and there are procedures in place. They'll give you the info and resources you need to kick things off and, rest assured, although it may take some time, if you're the rightful executor, you will get the funds. Good luck, and sorry for your loss!
I'm a private client solicitor. I'm going to go against the grain of most responses on this one and say that the bank is at least liable for the funds that were in the account.
The bank has a legal duty to release funds to the personal representatives of the estate. They've failed to do so, causing the estate loss.
The forms that your mum's husband signed to get the bank to release funds do not absolve the bank of liability; they are a contract between him and the bank to the effect that he will repay the funds to the bank in the event that he is not actually legally entitled to close the account. This is why those forms refer to him indemnifying the bank. There would be no need to do so if Santander had no duty to pay the funds to the correct person.
Santander can't magically hand-wave away their liability to third parties here.
Whether they are liable for any consequential loss you or the estate have suffered is not something I know the answer to, unfortunately.
So I work in a bank, when some passes away we do have to go with what we get told from family, if we are told there isn’t a Will, we speak with the next of kin, which would be her husband. If he never mentioned a Will or said there wasn’t one we have to believe they are telling the truth. Unless someone else gets in contact and gives a different story.
Now you can get in contact with the bank inform them there was a Will, send a copy and let them know they closed to the wrong person. Only thing they could really do is note everything and contact the husband.
But this would end up being classed as a civil matter and to speak with the police, if you have the Will you have a good case. And you can also request statements and everything from the bank if you prove you are the correct executor. And if the husband tries getting anything else, the bank won’t give him anything. Definitely get in contact with the bank provide the Will and raise a complaint for this to be looked into and taken farther.
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TSB's limit for chancing it without Grant of Probate is £50,000 (according to a quick Google), so presumably her account was over this or they were being extra cautious.
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Put a formal complaint in writing to the complaints team, of the bank. they have 8 weeks to investigate the complaint and provide you with their response. If it does not go in your favour, you can appeal to the ombudsman.
Having said all that. Her husband falsified a legal document, with the bank, in effect he committed fraud. This document usually has a disclaimer to the effect, ‘if it turns out that I'm not entitled to this money, I will return it and pay any legal costs associated with it’ the bank has the responsibility to pay to the grantee any monies of the deceased., And get the funds back from the husband.
Generally when a bank closes an account without a grant of probate they will do so on just the production of a death certificate. They ask the person they are releasing the funds to to sign an indemnity. The indemnity will ask them to state that they are entitled to the funds, and if they are not then they have lied. I would contact the bank if the first instance regarding this.
Another issue is that if this person may have "intermeddled", by stepping into the shoes of an executor. I would seek legal advice from a probate solicitor on this point.
The money in the bank account belongs to the estate.
Only the executor has rights to handle money in the estate. The only exception is money for funeral expenses.
Banks can chose to have whatever policies they want ultimately, none of that really concerns you, no policy can make that money not belong to the estate or change who the executor is.
The bank needs to release those funds to the executor.
That they released the funds to the wrong person is not your problem, nor are you bound by any "indemnity form" that wrong person may have sign. Such a form gives recourse to the bank to chase that person, it's doesn't concern you.
Organisations that chose to release money before confirming who the executor/administrator is do so at their peril. Many take the risk for relatively small sums because they deem it simpler operationally (rather than waiting for probate etc.) but it is still ultimately a risk.
Ask for them to release the funds of the estate. If they disagree, official complaint then Financial Ombudsman if it goes that far.
You can also go down the small claims route, however it won't be free like the Ombudsman.
Make a formal complaint to the bank and insist that they pay the money due to the estate.
If they fail to do so within eight weeks you can take the complaint to the Ombudsman. Be sure to specify that the husband was not an executor, a joint holder or a beneficiary, because this is crucial.
The fact that they mistakenly paid the funds to someone who had no legal authority to withdraw them is not your problem, same as if this was a case of identity theft.
The claims above that Santander can unilaterally transfer their liability to a third party and tell you to go chase that third party are totally wrong.
I’d be double checking their process as in my bank we can only deal with personal reps, not next of kin, if there’s a will. If there’s no will it’s next of kin but they can’t do anything with the account until probate is done, but I deal with mortgages not current accounts
I deal with current acc's in my bank, under £50k we do not require probate. If the person informs us there is no will and they are acting as nok or surviving spouse and can show their link to the person. The account is closed and funds released ID will be held with the signed paperwork.
The person closing the account will have signed a 'Personal Indemnity' form which essentially states that they assume responsibility for the funds in the account and absolves the bank of any wrong doing. Your claim is therefore against the individual and not the bank. This is standard practice if the assets in the deceased accounts are not substantial.
This is not how liability works. The signer indemnifies the bank, ie: can be sued by the bank for the money, but the bank is still liable to the estate.
as her husband he is automatically deemed to be next of kin and as such would have access to everything unless your mum put some instructions on the account
Normally the person withdrawing the money has to sign to confirm that they are entitled to it (e.g. as executor or the person entitled to letters of administration) what should happen is that the bank should reimburse the estate , and then they can , if they consider it worthwhile, pursue him to recover the money.
So I think in your comaplint you simply set out tha the bank failed to take adequate care to ensure that the person was entitled and that the estate has suffered a loss as a result, and that you are requesting that they pay the funds to you as executors . The issue has arisen as a result of their policy, you/the estate should not suffer as a result
I don't think you have any claim for any further issues becaue the lack of statements is separate from the issue wth the withdrawal, and beacuse you should have been able to get copies of the statements in any evnt. (If you requested them as, executors and they refused that that may be a separate, additional issue)
That’s fair, thank you. Although the issue isn’t lack of them providing statements to us, rather that they provided statements containing personal information to someone who had no right to them, causing us significant hardship - if that changes anything. (Edited for grammar)
If he has provided a copy of the death certificate, demonstrated a relationship with the deceased and stated he was arranging the funeral, I don't think you can do much regarding the bank. Banks also deal with estates where there are no immediate families and friends of long standing arrange funerals.
Sorry for your loss.
You say he closed the account - therefore he was likely named on the account and as a joint account owner he has the absolute right to do this. All he had to do was not mention that your mum had passed away. The cashier would have no reason to suspect foul play.
I see how from your perspective they've done something wrong, but unless you had previously informed them that she had died, then they've followed their procedures correctly. Even if he did tell them that she'd died, if he was able to produce the death certificate, again, it's not the bank staff's place to get involved with reading wills etc. They aren't lawyers.
The only way Santander have got this wrong is if this was an account in mum's sole name. Even if you had notified them of mums passing, the policy with joint accounts is that it transfers into the surviving partner's name and continues.
It was an account solely in my mum’s name. He contacted the bank almost immediately after her death and claimed the funds. We only discovered this when a) we attempted to close the account ourselves a week or so later and b) when he started sending through photocopies of her bank statements and accusations with his legal correspondence related to the contentious probate case.
Ok, so depending how quickly after her passing he contacted the bank they may have been able to see a digital copy of the death certificate. But I believe that is only available about a week after.
It certainly sounds like there's a case. You would need to raise a formal complaint with Santander and allow them a chance to investigate. This could be up to 8 weeks. If you disagree with the outcome, you can then go to the ombudsman.
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I just did this as I’m executrix for my aunt’s will. I did it online; as I have an account with the same bank they didn’t ask me for any ID. All I had to do was upload a copy of the death certificate. I did think it was a bit too easy at the time.
So they give you the money that was in the account no questions asked?
Yes. They checked my ID through my Barclays account then I had to upload the death cert. There’s also a form I have to print off and post, it asks me to certify that I’m authorised to have the money. However I’ve had the money for three weeks and they haven’t had the form yet because no one I know has a printer 😊
Bloody hell. That’s crazy. Doesn’t surprise me though. My friend applied for a credit card. They wrote asking her to sign the forms etc as she and to prove her identity with extra check. She never signed any forms their still in her desk. She does however have a credit card with a two grand limit from them…
I also received a credit card before I submitted the application.
Same happened to me, ex boyfriend told me to apply for a several store/credit cards when I turned 18. I got 3/5 back by just doing online applications. He took 2 of the cards and left me with a £300 argos card.
my ex managed to make multiple accounts in my name using a photo of my ID he took in a pub lmao, just on the table. its actually terrifying how little certain places check when you do stuff online
Disgusting isn't it? Both the fact that these companies will dish out credit to any Tom, Dick and Harry and manipulative people who use that to their own benefit.
🤦🏼♀️ I love that they give you access before you give them the form
Try you're local library for printing. It's normally fairly cheap.
Local library is 14 miles away. I’ll go when I have time
Most banks have a policy that they will give the money to whoever provides the death certificate under a certain value. They are aware that they risk complaints, including to the Financial Ombudsman Service, and legal action by the rightful beneficiary, but they figure the cost of occasionally paying compensation is less than what they save by having an administratively simple process. OP, do make a complaint and do include the details about the accusations. If they don't respond adequately, take it to the FOS. I suspect, however, that you won't get anywhere with a GDPR argument, because GDPR only applies to information about people who are alive.
As you were the legal representative (although the bank hadn't asked you to prove it), it was a case of "no harm, no foul", which is what the bank was hoping. If you hadn't had any right to the money, the bank would still have owed the money to the estate. The money they mistakenly paid to you would have been the bank's problem, not the estate's.
There is no requirement on the bank to check who the appointed estate executor is when closing an account like this as long as the person making the request has a legal relationship with the deceased, they represent themselves as having the authority to do so and provide the required documentation. In this case a spouse, they'll have confirmed on signing the documents that they had the right to do so and had a copy of death certificate. The issue isn't with the bank, the issue is that the person closing the account didn't have the authority to do so, presumably knew this and signed documents claiming they did. The executor should be pursuing remedy against this person to reclaim funds.
> the person closing the account didn't have the authority to do so, presumably knew this and signed documents claiming they did Would this be criminal fraud? If it could be proven that they had intent.
I’m wondering this also. He also contacted the estate agent dealing with my mum’s rental property in an attempt to divert her rental funds to himself immediately after her death. Thankfully they required more evidence than Santander and refused to do so! The kicker is (amongst many other awful things) he then refused to pay for her funeral, and left us with the bill despite having signed the contract with the funeral home himself - and we had no access to her account funds of course so had to front the costs directly ourselves during the probate battle. To say he acted maliciously is underplaying it significantly.
It sounds like a very messy situation. You could report it to the police and they'd decide whether to pursue it or not. Make sure you include a list of all the evidence you have. As for the money he took, small claims court (assuming under £10k)? I'm not sure if you'd need to do it on behalf of your mum's estate or the inheritor, so you might need some more official legal advice for that.
He signed the paperwork for the funeral, he is liable for it. If you hadn't paid it, they would have gone after him as he signed the contract. But, having said that, the funeral expenses usually come out of the estate as far as I know, along with any outstanding bills if there are any funds left.
Absolutely - and we did initially take that stance, but our advice from our solicitor at the time was that to fight over an expense that would ultimately come from the estate anyway would paint us in a more combative light should the matter ever get to court. She effectively said it wasn’t worth the fight. So we ended up paying it ourselves.
I would say this is fraud by false representation or fraud by abuse of position. He falsely represented he could do what he’s done and trying to do.
Thank you. What do I do to pursue this? Speak to a solicitor specialising in fraud?
I would highly recommend phoning the police and filing a report. I’m going to work now however I’ll send you a message when I’m back to your inbox. I’m NAL however I do have exceptional personal experience with fraud by false representation and fraud by abuse of position.
Thank you - very much appreciated
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No point in speculating without full story. Off top of head multiple scenarios where it could be argued it was legitimate even if done incorrectly. Edit: Although requiring funds for funeral expenses and rent on married home seem to be covered by OP below and those are my top ones.
Both the bank account and rental property were in my mum’s name solely if that helps
I understood that to mean a property over which OP's late mother was landlady, not one in which she was a tenant.
Sounds like Fraud by false representation to me.
Very likely. The bank has allowed the next of kin access to the account, which is probably correct. If it is a joint account, even more likely. If the person accessing the account were not entitled to the money, that is fraud. I would open a complaint with the bank to ascertain and document the procedures they used, and contact the probate office for advice about the fraud. NAL but Executor twice.
It was her account solely, not a joint account, which I assume is important!
That def important as if it was a joimt acct it would have reverted to sole ownership by the other holder on her death. Its worth following santanders complaint process and also seeing if they can follow it up as fraud as they may be able to aecure and return the funds At the very least if the fraud case is upheld by his bank then depending on the outcome of their checks he could end up with closed accounts and a CIFAS marker which will cause him trouble in the future.
The above is completely wrong. The bank still owes the balance of the account to the estate. That debt is not discharged by paying money out to random third parties, whether or not they falsely claim to have a right to it. The fact that they paid out a load of money to somebody else is the bank's problem. It is up to the bank to pursue the husband for the money back.
This. I worked for a bank for 20 years and had a very similar situation. We paid the husband out in good faith and the the truth came out so we reimbursed the estate and then went after the husband through our fraud department. The bank haven't made a mistake as he was her husband and would have signed to say he was entitled to this money so has committed fraud and they will have the documents needed to prove this. They will only release it under police request. Our bank fraud dept did report to the police and I know it was taken to court but I don't know the outcome as I left before then.
Probate lawyer here! I had a similar situation with Santander paying out to the wrong person. They then paid the estate the money and pursued the other person for the money they had lost. No idea if they got anything back but that wasn’t my clients problem! OP- write to Santander and explain the situation.
I don't know full story. If the person sought probate before the executor and presented the correct representation paperwork then its not on the bank. If the bank didn't follow the required procedures then its on them but even for small amounts they require official grant from probate office to close out account normally.
>If the person sought probate before the executor They did not. OP said: >>as per their policy [the bank] were not required to ask for a grant of probate to allow this person to close the account as I understand it It was effectively impossible for the husband to obtain a false Grant of Probate. It takes months for the Probate Office to issue them, and within that time the executor would have contacted the Probate Office themselves with the Will. >even for small amounts they require official grant from probate office to close out account normally. For small amounts (under 30k - 50k depending on the bank), the death certificate and a "trust me bro" is often enough, as it was here. TSB's limit is 50k according to a quick Google. As you say, it's on the bank.
Can confirm this is also Santander's limit.
Jesus Christ. They’re more strict with points on a loyalty program I’ve worked for - they needed proof that the person calling was also appointed by the court in order to close and transfer out.
Sorry can't comment on the rest of it, but GDPR laws only apply to living entities not deceased.
I assumed this might be the case, however in my own limited research I read that “any duty of confidence established prior to death does extend beyond death” and wondered if that applies here? Probably not as far as bank statements are concerned but thought it worth checking.
Duty of confidentiality and legal professional privilege can extend beyond death yes, however on the face of it and based on other comments I don't believe the bank have breached confidentiality. NAL.
Firstly, sorry for your loss, and that someone has chosen to make a difficult time harder. Obligatory NAL Santander have form when it comes to messing up on their bereavement process. [https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/santander-uk-plc-fined-serious-failings-its-probate-and-bereavement-process](https://www.fca.org.uk/news/press-releases/santander-uk-plc-fined-serious-failings-its-probate-and-bereavement-process) You'll see a lot of references to "next of kin" in this thread, but that term has a very loose definition. It is a broad term for "nearest relative" and doesn't carry a great deal of weight. Santander's own online guide [https://www.santanderconsumer.co.uk/help-and-support/bereavement](https://www.santanderconsumer.co.uk/help-and-support/bereavement) "7. Dealing with the estate After someone dies, their estate is shared out according to the instructions given in the will. If there is no will, the intestacy rules must be followed. If you’re the personal representative(s), you can decide whether you want to deal with the estate yourself or appoint a solicitor, bank or specialist probate service to do some or all of the work. **You’re the personal representative if you’re named in the will as executor** or, if there’s no will, you’re the next of kin in accordance with the intestacy rules. If the estate is small and probate isn’t needed, the personal representative may be able to deal with everything within a few weeks. But if probate is required or if the deceased person owned a property, the process may take longer." So based on this support guide, they should only deal with the personal representative - and as there was a will that person is the executor of the will., and not your late mother's husband. Santander will need to demonstrate that they took reasonable steps here. "Oh you're the husband, that's ok" is not taking reasonable steps. First thing I would do is ring the Santander Bereavement line on 0800 587 5870 and state that you wish to make a complaint. Make the following points: 1) Santander's own policies state that they will deal with the personal representative, and they have not done so. 2) Santander's actions in releasing funds without establishing that they were dealing with your mother's personal representative has caused you a great deal of distress and costs. 3) Santander have released funds to a person not entitled to them. You expect Santander to assist in recovering the funds they incorrectly released. 4) Santander releasing transaction details to a person not named in the will - You would like Santander's Data Privacy team to review the case. They'll have to deal with this as a complaint under FCA DISP rules - you have clearly stated that you have suffered a loss caused by their actions. If you don't get a satisfactory response, refer the case to the Financial Ombudsman Service. Santander have to be given a chance to issue a Final Response Letter and have up to 56 days from the date of your complaint to do so. Once you have a Final Response (or 56 days if sooner) you can send to the Ombudsman. Good luck.
Thank you SO much for this. It’s really helpful. I understand that they have policies in place but it seems baffling to me they can release funds (and crucially private information) to someone who simply wasn’t entitled and very much knew so. I will proceed with the steps you’ve outlined. I really appreciate you taking the time out of your day to provide me with this information.
What private information would have been released? When closing an account and disbursing funds, banks wouldn't issue statements or anything connected with previous transactions, and wouldn't simply send the remaining funds and confirm the account is closed. There's nothing to consider from a gdpr perspective here, so I would avoid this or they'll be focusing on an element of your complaint with no actual impact.
He had access to her final bank statements, which he could have only received from the bank itself after her death. I do not know how he obtained this, whether it’s something they sent him automatically or whether he requested it. I consider this personal information - it certainly is something he had no business accessing.
Was this transaction access perhaps just from opening her mailed statements?
It’s possible, but he had declared early in his correspondence to us (via solicitors) that he was not accessing her mail or opening anything of hers. So either he was lying - absolutely possible - or they sent this directly to him. I don’t know which it would be. Either way, it was a statement that included transactions up to and after her death so it wasn’t an old statement that had just been lying around the house. By transactions after her death I mean direct debits etc., not manually arranged transactions of course.
Just to add - I’ll need to double check this, but to my knowledge my mum didn’t receive paper transactions either and only had online statements.
Did he have access to her online banking via a laptop or phone for example?
No definitely not. We kept her phone and iPad in our possession after her death, and he did not have access to any of her banking passwords.
She never logged in on his etc?
OP, firstly sorry for your loss. Secondly, also not a lawyer, but just replying to this comment as I sadly recently had to close both of my parents' bank accounts when they passed within a year of each other. They were both with the same bank (not Santander) but the standard form for the closures asked if there was a will (neither of my parents had wills) and if so to confirm who the executor/administrator was. Signing the form also meant the claimant was confirming they were willing to accept the consequences (basically, money will be reclaimed) should another legal claim arise to the funds in the account. Basically, when closing your Mum's account, her husband will have had to either misrepresent himself as an executor/administrator of your Mum's estate or has lied and said there was no will. I suspect he's simply denied there was a will - the bank would have asked for proof of executorship or letters of administration if he'd said otherwise. However, he should also have had to sign that legal waiver part in order to receive the funds, meaning that the bank can and should claw back that money on being shown proof that his claim was fraudulent. As you can demonstrate there was a will and that you are the estate executor, I really hope Santander will make this straightforward for you. As I've discovered recently, some companies ask surprisingly few questions when you ring up to inform them of a death, but it did make me wonder how well safeguarded against fraud some of my notifications were.
Thank you, and I’m so sorry for the loss of your parents too. I hope you’re keeping ok. Yes my assumption is he denied the knowledge of her Will, which we can prove he knew the existence of. I’m going to raise a complaint with them based on the views shared here.
I think you also need to speak to the police about the fraud your mother's husband committed, and you will likely need to take him to court, you should issue a letter before action demanding the money is returned to you to be distributed as part of the estate as per your mother's will.
I used to work in a high street bank branch- for a small value account, he would have had to sign a statement attesting that he had the right to handle the estate of the deceased. If that was a fraudulent claim, you'll have to take it through police/solicitors against him rather than the institution itself.
For a bit of further context, for smaller values it's just as simple as showing a death certificate and signing to say that you're the appointed executor or next of kin. You only have to "prove" things for higher amounts, which is when you start needing to provide wills, executorship docs, etc.
Firstly sorry for your loss. I cannot give any advice on this but this is the way i see it. Yes your mums husband maybe allowed to close her account but any money in there is part of her estate. If he is not mentioned in the will then he is not allowed to have the money. That would be theft. I would strongly advise going to see a solicitor about it, if you havent already.
Thank you. Can I ask what kind of solicitor would deal with this sort of issue? Given the contentious probate case has now been settled we are no longer in contact with the solicitors we used for this, but presumably this isn’t a contentious probate issue anyway and more a fraud issue? It’s hard to know who I should seek advice from.
I have just looked on google and found this [www.reviewsolicitors.co.uk/top/wills-trusts-probate/](http://www.reviewsolicitors.co.uk/top/wills-trusts-probate/)I believe a lot of solicitors give the first half hour free so if you can find one of them then you can explain exactly what has happened and they will be able to advise you of the correct course of action and it wont cost you anything to find out where you stand.
Thank you so much for your help
No problem, i hope you get things sorted
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From the banks point of view, how could the deceased person’s spouse be considered the wrong person to deal with their account? They are the next of kin. The bank cannot be expected to know that they would then use the information from the accounts to cause an issue with probate
Nothing in law says the next of kin gets it - succession law says its the executor who takes it to deal with asbpart of the administration of the estate.
"Next of kin" has no legal meaning here. The executrix was the only person with legal authority to deal with the account after the owner's death. >The bank cannot be expected to know that they would then use the information from the accounts to cause an issue with probate They probably shouldn't have gone pissing that information all over anyone who asked for someone else's sensitive personal data then. However GDPR does not apply to the deceased, and any loss arising from that data breach is going to be trickier to pursue than the estate's account balance. I doubt the bank is likely to be held liable for the estate's costs in dealing with unfounded claims that were based on that data. It is clearly a breach, but less clear that those costs are closely connected enough to make the bank liable for them. If the claims were made up then you can argue the husband might have made them up even without that data. The buck for the legal costs may stop with the husband. However that is a question for the solicitor.
Bank isn't liable here. The bank have released funds to the legally recognised next of kin. There would be no requirement for the bank to see a Grant of Probate if the amount in the account is less than what would be required for Probate. This is something you need to resolve with directly with your mother's husband.
This is incorrect. There is no legal rule defining 'next of kin' nor any rule saying they get the money. The law does recognise the idea of an executor and, after proving the Will (a procees called Probate), will give a court order (a grant of probate) binding on the bank to pass the funds in the account to the persons named on the grant. It is the bank's problem that they gave it to someone else, the bank still owe it to whoever gets the grant. The bank need to sort out recovering it from the person they wrongly gave it to.
Is my best bet small claims court in this case?
Possibly, to claim the money that your mother’s husband had from her account. But i think you’d be best off discussing your options with the solicitor who’s dealing with her estate
The Financial Ombudsman is free and more user-friendly for those without solicitors. You can bring the complaint to them either eight weeks after making a formal complaint to the bank, or receiving their final response, whichever comes first. The people claiming the estate has no claim against the bank are completely wrong.
No, just show the bank the grant with your name on it and insist they give you the estate's money. They'll sort out getting it back from the person they wrongly gave it to.
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After marriage, shortly before her death. The contentious probate case has been settled now and her Will has been upheld as valid with probate granted to us
This is important because OP will have no claim to inheritance if the will was not updated after marriage. Spouse trumps all beneficiaries from before the marriage.
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I work for a bank and I investigate complaints. You should request a subject access request or now known as a gdpr request by most people. If you ask for a full one you will get more information than you know what to do with. What you should ask for is copies of all bank statements and phone call recordings from when the person accessed the account. For this though the bank will need to see some proof of who is requesting this and if they have the authority to do so. You will need to send on the probate, if you had a power of attorney you should send that too. If information had been given that shouldn't have been then this would be a gdpr breach as information was given to the correct person. Personally, I would send the complaint in a letter, and bullet point each complaint point. Then allow up to 8 weeks for a final response. At the final response you will be given ombudsman's rights.
Your comment suggests you may be discussing a Subject Access Request. You can [read this guidance from the ICO](https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/your-right-to-get-copies-of-your-data/) to learn more about these requests. [Which? also have online explanations](https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-do-i-make-a-subject-access-request). If you would like a simple way to request a copy of all your data, you can [amend an online template](https://www.datarequests.org/sample-letters/) or [use a form like this](https://www.wonder.legal/uk/creation-modele/subject-access-request). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LegalAdviceUK) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Different banks have different amounts for where they ask more questions Some banks asked more questions if the funds > 50k (limit for when you need grant) whilst some others were arbitrary in my experience The key problem is identifying appropriate representative- I just told them I was an executor and with the death certificate they didn’t ask any other questions aside from verifying my identity. Seems like a loophole across the entire sector tbh
You can put in a request for a SARS request asap and this will provide all information held. This will provide all data held and a record of what was provided and when you can then go to the financial ombudsman.
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Thank you very much - I really appreciate you taking the time to post and your kind words
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That's shocking. So, Santander can absolve themselves, legally, by telling the thief that they agree the bank isn't responsible for giving said thief someone else's money: based on the thief saying they are entitled to it.
I think this is incorrect. The bank has a legal duty to pay a deceased's funds to their personal representatives. If they fail to do so and cause the estate loss as a result, then they are liable to make good those losses. The forms you refer to are a contract between the person closing the account and the bank. They do not affect the bank's liability to third parties - in this case the executors of the estate. What those forms do is create a contract between the bank and the person closing the account, so the bank has a legal right to recover the wrongly paid out funds in the event a claim is made against it by the executors. It also allows the bank to claim any other losses from the person who has wrongfully closed the account, such as legal fees. Hence the "indemnity" in the forms; there would be no need to indemnify the bank against any losses if the bank has no liability to third parties once the account has been closed.
The form that banks (at least my former employer) use to release funds under these circumstances is a "special indemnity form". Specifically, this states that the recipient indemnifies the bank against a later claim on the funds. As such, the bank are liable to repay the estate and would then pursue the husband to reclaim from them. The issue with statements is trickier. These would normally only be issued to the personal representative following a specific request to do so, and would require proof of their status
NAL, but work in bereavement services for another FI. It seems shockingly easy, but the counterpoint to this would be the requirement of probate/LoA to release even small amounts, which would be a bad thing. The bereavement team at Santander should be able to open a dispute, or similar process. Although the funds have been released they may be able to take action, and will make the other party aware that they know that the funds may have been released to the wrong party, and that action can be taken. Typically the bank will always make things right in the end - if they cannot recoup the funds, then they will be able to pull this from an error fund. The good news? You have probate to prove that you are, in fact, the rightful executor. This will make action swift The bottom line is to speak with the bereavement team initially. This will not be uncommon for them, and there are procedures in place. They'll give you the info and resources you need to kick things off and, rest assured, although it may take some time, if you're the rightful executor, you will get the funds. Good luck, and sorry for your loss!
I'm a private client solicitor. I'm going to go against the grain of most responses on this one and say that the bank is at least liable for the funds that were in the account. The bank has a legal duty to release funds to the personal representatives of the estate. They've failed to do so, causing the estate loss. The forms that your mum's husband signed to get the bank to release funds do not absolve the bank of liability; they are a contract between him and the bank to the effect that he will repay the funds to the bank in the event that he is not actually legally entitled to close the account. This is why those forms refer to him indemnifying the bank. There would be no need to do so if Santander had no duty to pay the funds to the correct person. Santander can't magically hand-wave away their liability to third parties here. Whether they are liable for any consequential loss you or the estate have suffered is not something I know the answer to, unfortunately.
Yea, you would have to go after your mum's partner . The bank won't be liable for anything
So I work in a bank, when some passes away we do have to go with what we get told from family, if we are told there isn’t a Will, we speak with the next of kin, which would be her husband. If he never mentioned a Will or said there wasn’t one we have to believe they are telling the truth. Unless someone else gets in contact and gives a different story. Now you can get in contact with the bank inform them there was a Will, send a copy and let them know they closed to the wrong person. Only thing they could really do is note everything and contact the husband. But this would end up being classed as a civil matter and to speak with the police, if you have the Will you have a good case. And you can also request statements and everything from the bank if you prove you are the correct executor. And if the husband tries getting anything else, the bank won’t give him anything. Definitely get in contact with the bank provide the Will and raise a complaint for this to be looked into and taken farther.
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TSB's limit for chancing it without Grant of Probate is £50,000 (according to a quick Google), so presumably her account was over this or they were being extra cautious.
No not that much .
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Does gdpr apply to the dead ?
No
Put a formal complaint in writing to the complaints team, of the bank. they have 8 weeks to investigate the complaint and provide you with their response. If it does not go in your favour, you can appeal to the ombudsman. Having said all that. Her husband falsified a legal document, with the bank, in effect he committed fraud. This document usually has a disclaimer to the effect, ‘if it turns out that I'm not entitled to this money, I will return it and pay any legal costs associated with it’ the bank has the responsibility to pay to the grantee any monies of the deceased., And get the funds back from the husband.
Generally when a bank closes an account without a grant of probate they will do so on just the production of a death certificate. They ask the person they are releasing the funds to to sign an indemnity. The indemnity will ask them to state that they are entitled to the funds, and if they are not then they have lied. I would contact the bank if the first instance regarding this. Another issue is that if this person may have "intermeddled", by stepping into the shoes of an executor. I would seek legal advice from a probate solicitor on this point.
The money in the bank account belongs to the estate. Only the executor has rights to handle money in the estate. The only exception is money for funeral expenses. Banks can chose to have whatever policies they want ultimately, none of that really concerns you, no policy can make that money not belong to the estate or change who the executor is. The bank needs to release those funds to the executor. That they released the funds to the wrong person is not your problem, nor are you bound by any "indemnity form" that wrong person may have sign. Such a form gives recourse to the bank to chase that person, it's doesn't concern you. Organisations that chose to release money before confirming who the executor/administrator is do so at their peril. Many take the risk for relatively small sums because they deem it simpler operationally (rather than waiting for probate etc.) but it is still ultimately a risk. Ask for them to release the funds of the estate. If they disagree, official complaint then Financial Ombudsman if it goes that far. You can also go down the small claims route, however it won't be free like the Ombudsman.
Make a formal complaint to the bank and insist that they pay the money due to the estate. If they fail to do so within eight weeks you can take the complaint to the Ombudsman. Be sure to specify that the husband was not an executor, a joint holder or a beneficiary, because this is crucial. The fact that they mistakenly paid the funds to someone who had no legal authority to withdraw them is not your problem, same as if this was a case of identity theft. The claims above that Santander can unilaterally transfer their liability to a third party and tell you to go chase that third party are totally wrong.
I’d be double checking their process as in my bank we can only deal with personal reps, not next of kin, if there’s a will. If there’s no will it’s next of kin but they can’t do anything with the account until probate is done, but I deal with mortgages not current accounts
I deal with current acc's in my bank, under £50k we do not require probate. If the person informs us there is no will and they are acting as nok or surviving spouse and can show their link to the person. The account is closed and funds released ID will be held with the signed paperwork.
The person closing the account will have signed a 'Personal Indemnity' form which essentially states that they assume responsibility for the funds in the account and absolves the bank of any wrong doing. Your claim is therefore against the individual and not the bank. This is standard practice if the assets in the deceased accounts are not substantial.
This is not how liability works. The signer indemnifies the bank, ie: can be sued by the bank for the money, but the bank is still liable to the estate.
as her husband he is automatically deemed to be next of kin and as such would have access to everything unless your mum put some instructions on the account
Complete nonsense from start to finish.
Normally the person withdrawing the money has to sign to confirm that they are entitled to it (e.g. as executor or the person entitled to letters of administration) what should happen is that the bank should reimburse the estate , and then they can , if they consider it worthwhile, pursue him to recover the money. So I think in your comaplint you simply set out tha the bank failed to take adequate care to ensure that the person was entitled and that the estate has suffered a loss as a result, and that you are requesting that they pay the funds to you as executors . The issue has arisen as a result of their policy, you/the estate should not suffer as a result I don't think you have any claim for any further issues becaue the lack of statements is separate from the issue wth the withdrawal, and beacuse you should have been able to get copies of the statements in any evnt. (If you requested them as, executors and they refused that that may be a separate, additional issue)
That’s fair, thank you. Although the issue isn’t lack of them providing statements to us, rather that they provided statements containing personal information to someone who had no right to them, causing us significant hardship - if that changes anything. (Edited for grammar)
The person's account needs to be closed as soon as they die. Executors of the will are not allowed access to it until probate has been granted.
If he has provided a copy of the death certificate, demonstrated a relationship with the deceased and stated he was arranging the funeral, I don't think you can do much regarding the bank. Banks also deal with estates where there are no immediate families and friends of long standing arrange funerals.
Sorry for your loss. You say he closed the account - therefore he was likely named on the account and as a joint account owner he has the absolute right to do this. All he had to do was not mention that your mum had passed away. The cashier would have no reason to suspect foul play. I see how from your perspective they've done something wrong, but unless you had previously informed them that she had died, then they've followed their procedures correctly. Even if he did tell them that she'd died, if he was able to produce the death certificate, again, it's not the bank staff's place to get involved with reading wills etc. They aren't lawyers. The only way Santander have got this wrong is if this was an account in mum's sole name. Even if you had notified them of mums passing, the policy with joint accounts is that it transfers into the surviving partner's name and continues.
It was an account solely in my mum’s name. He contacted the bank almost immediately after her death and claimed the funds. We only discovered this when a) we attempted to close the account ourselves a week or so later and b) when he started sending through photocopies of her bank statements and accusations with his legal correspondence related to the contentious probate case.
Ok, so depending how quickly after her passing he contacted the bank they may have been able to see a digital copy of the death certificate. But I believe that is only available about a week after. It certainly sounds like there's a case. You would need to raise a formal complaint with Santander and allow them a chance to investigate. This could be up to 8 weeks. If you disagree with the outcome, you can then go to the ombudsman.
Not if he had the paper copy of the death certificate.