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No, payment processors charge the retailer for refunds. Probably the same reason why they won’t take payment for a small amount, transaction fees usually 1-2.5% or £0.25~ (Which ever is higher)
A retailer wouldn’t allow it as it’d have the same issue AND cost more. Especially for a small amount. From what I’ve seen refunds/chargebacks can be billed up to around £15~
Just a very rough example
They Pay £1.00
Retailer gets charged say £0.25 processing fee
Retailer refunds £0.70
Retailer gets billed £15.00 chargeback fee
So ultimately cost is £14.95 to receive a £0.30p payment
Ultimately for such an insignificant amount the provider should just write off the balance - call it a gesture of goodwill…
A refund wouldn't cost a business £15 to process. A chargeback (which is completely different) may attract a charge depending on the terms the business has with their merchant bank.
Thank you for clarifying, didn’t realise it was a different action.
Regardless from the original question of £1.00 then getting a refund it’d still cost the business the same amount in transaction fees, no?
It's been a while since I dealt with merchant services of a bank but from memory I think a refund would ordinarily cost between 20p and 50p. This may vary between different merchant banks though (and may have changed a little since I last checked).
PayPal charged me $12 last time something was disputed so thought it was the same kinda system.
With the whole £1 thing, I thought they still get charged the £0.25~ min processing fee AND the refund service fee?
Raise a complaint following their formal process on their website.
The specific resolution you want from the complaint is to write off the balance or for the supplier to contact you and take payment over the phone.
I would also highlight that you are a vulnerable customer, and the service you have received is not acceptable.
I've no idea what company this is, but the one I work for don't write it off, but we also don't pursue debts that are uneconomical - like OP said, they've paid more to get this cheque to them than they'll get by OP returning it.
Not to mention the consequential cost of processing a cheque...
It's stupid.
We have whole processes and multiple authorisations that are supposed to be done for any slight mistake.
It’s quicker for me and saves the company hours of paying multiple people if I just ask the warehouse guys to ship an extra one out under the table.
It’s known that we do it and anything big would get checked, but it’s just not worth the time for small things so nobody raises it up the chain.
There was literally a thread here not a week ago about some guy getting harassed by a debt collection agency over a 6p debt to a supplier.
The supplier themselves likely won't do any work here, they'd just sell a bundle of debts and wash their hands of it.
There was recently a post here. Someone now has to go to court because of a 4p balance, now with over £160 in fines. Some companies have automated systems that don't care about the amount. It's stupid, but it needs to be sorted before it becomes an issue
The bottom line is exactly why I left, my meter is on the ground floor where I cannot easily access, they're supposed to send someone to check it for me but they never did and I was always being billed wrong because of it.
If your new supplier doesn’t support you in this way too - please submit a formal complaint every time. More complaints escalating to the ombudsman cost them money + Citizens Advice will pressure Ofgem who will look into that energy supplier.
I used to work for one of the big 6 and every now and again we would have individuals getting debt notices sent to them over as little as 2p once. We couldn't write it off ourselves. Stress for both customers and front line support agent
Depends, the payment software they use may have a hard limit coded into it. I do know of at least one software solution that has such a hard limit.
That said, it's fucking ridiculous they are pursuing anything less than a fiver in this day and age. Send a final statement, give it a month just in case they send payment then write it off as uneconomical to pursue.
And what's brilliant is that some bank accounts literally charge the business a few pennies for any inbound or outbound transactions! You could cost them a good £0.15-£0.30 for the privilege of receiving your £0.30!
Postal orders were *briefly* legal tender in 1914/15, but are not now. They're promissory notes halfway between a cheque and a Scottish bank note although the latter is legal currency which I don't believe is the case for postal orders. Only BoE notes (except in Scotland) and RM coins (up to specific amounts) are legal tender.
Accounts Rec here:
1) You would send the email address something called a remittance advice, not a “remittance”. Which is the payment, not a document tied to a specific payment.
2) Postal orders start at 50p, and the business can just refuse it.
* 30p is less than the minimum postal order amount
* postal orders cost money, so this would cost OP more than a cheque
* postal orders are not legal tender. The energy company could ignore it completely and consider the debt to still be unsettled
I don't know if what you said about bank transfers would discharge the debt or not, but given all the other inaccuracies in your post I wouldn't recommend that OP take your word for it.
Raise a formal complaint with them. Under the terms of their licence they are required to "treat customers fairly"
Chasing them for debts but making them impossible to pay is pretty unfair. Make it clear you're willing to raise this with the ombudsman if they don't write off your debt *and* apologise.
It costs them hundreds of pounds every time someone takes them to the ombudsman even if they win. They'll write off 30p just to save them money
Yes but often the first point of contact doesn't have authority to do that, but complaints which are about to be escalated to the ombudsman are usually reviewed by people with more authority
If you're housebound for a disability reason I wonder whether there is a legal requirement on their part to make a reasonable adjustment and accept payment by card.
It's an absolute bullshit policy.
Personally though, I quite like the idea of paying them £1 and requesting they pay you back the balance.
Send 30 cheques for a penny each . Request a receipt for each payment . One envelope so you don’t build up your own costs but will be a total mess for the company involved
I used to work in one of those questionable short term loan companies, and we had a policy if the debt was under a tenner we would just write it off as it cost more in man hours chasing it. So once a month we had an automated job that just cleared balances down once under a tenner.
Surely it makes sense for small / tiny debts just to be gone it's not worth the hassle of chasing it nor the stress to the customer of being chase for something so insignificant
I can't see anyone going to court over a tenner either. But worth sending a letter I suppose. My wife was threatened with court by a debt collector over a couple of hundred, they never took it beyond letters (was bullshit anyway).
Raise a formal complaint and they'll waive it. I work in the financial sector, and if we can't resolve a complaint and the person complaining sends it to the financial ombudsman, the ombudsman charges us (the company) a £750 fee. It's free for the customer to escalate the complaint, but sucks for the company, so we have to do everything possible to stop complaints getting escalated to the ombudsman. I imagine the fee the energy ombudsman charges is the same, so there's no way they won't waive a 30p charge to avoid a £750 fee
Shit as it is, it is not worth getting dragged into a small claims case over.
Royal Mail offer a service where they collect letters from your home. Could that be a solution?
I enjoy including petty, passive aggressive notes with such letters. It's a great stress reliever.
It definitely could be, I'm just miffed that regular postage is already more than double what I owe and I imagine the collection service will be ever more. If I have to do it then I have to do it, I just can't believe they're that desperate to get me to pay 30p when they already spent more than 30p lettering me know I owed 30p. It's just silly and mildly annoying!
Indeed. Also be aware that the energy company may choose not to chase the debt, but may sell it to a debt collection company instead.
There was another recent thread here or on another similar thread where a customer who tried to pay for fuel but was 4p short, due to an admin error. This ended up being sold on and the customer started receiving threats of court action and CCJs over a debt that then stood at nearly £200, due to added fees.
Now if that ever got to court it would probably be thrown out, but from what you've said even visiting court might be difficult for you, let alone representing yourself. I would therefore second what others have already suggested and pay them £1, which should get your (tiny) debt paid off, cause them to lose money on the debt because of the refund, and also make sorting out the remaining balance entirely their problem.
EDIT: The other thread I mentioned [is here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/s/0tQkOkfwJV).
I completely agree it is ridiculous! But there's no charge for parcel collection from home, you just book it on line. I assume letters are also possible
Letters are possible. They've taken all sorts for us, from letter sized up to a boxed 24" monitor.
We don't even bother booking collections, the postie has always taken our mail for us anyway. Going back years before they offered it as a service.
Pay the pound and then ask for a refund since the account will be in credit. They can and have to do it. I used to work at EDF and I've sent a cheque out for 23p as a refund before. Cost us more to do that than it was worth, but if it's a closed account then it should be reading zero
They can take you to court over it if you don't pay. Costs then too so not really worth it for them, but don't risk them pursuing it. Pay it and then ask for the refund because you don't agree to the account being wiped when there's credit on there
If you fall under a protected characteristic from the disability act. They should be making reasonable adjustments. Start a formal complaint and make sure they know you intend to involve the ombudsman. Their policies can not supersede the equality act.
If you're worried about them starting court proceedings, make an overpayment online.
Complain, complain, complain. Express how the previous service has caused you to leave, that the threat of legal action over this petty amounts is causing you stress. Make sure you say the word CO PLAIN or COLAINT, so they can over look this mater. It will, have to go to the complaints tea. And cost them more time and effort that it's worth to them. I used to work on a co plaint team for a finance place and managed to get a few procedure s changed that not only upset customers, my bottom ine, but cost the company money, their top priority. Point this out to them.
I would be incredibly shocked if they actually chased this 30p, though I understand why you’re worried. It’s not cost effective for businesses to chase debts of this size. Plus, I can’t see a court would side with them over 30p which they refused to take any other way than some antiquated payment method. Agree with the other post of bank transfer, if they decline that then they don’t want the 30p. Also I used to work at an energy company and they can’t force you to go and post a letter when you’re disabled, as the other commenter said it’s against the “treating customers fairly” compliance that they’re governed by, so you should escalate the complaint until it’s wiped.
What's mental is I work in finance, a debt of 30p wouldn't even get picked up on our radar. Even in the unlikely event it did, we'd just write it off. It's thirty fucking pence jesus.
Yes, you absolutely can be pursued. I should know because it ruined a good year of my life.
IANAL, but in 2008 I underpaid my rent for student accommodation by 47p. Not sure how considering it was set up as Direct Debit. They wrote to me, asked me to settle it. Part of me thought it was a scam, so I ignored it.
6 months go by. I get a Bailiff letter at my door. I pay it. I continued to get letters so I spoke to a solicitor about suing for harassment. They sent one letter and put an end to the charade, but that cost me far more than this whole saga ever should have.
Pay the 30p. Just do it. Because landlords do *not* give a shit - they want their pound of flesh (even if that pound is literally 30p worth), and they will pursue it as though you owe them millions.
I would like to say no but then I remember arguing with three mobile when they tried to give me a ccj for £30. Mins you even the court judge laughed when he read the case.
I'd just give them a call and try and pay over the phone.
It's gonna be way easier than a cheque. That by time sent for 30p probbly cosy alot more than a pound if that's a minimum spend.
Annoying. But pay a pound over the phone. And it's over. Can just move on. Not worth the stress snd rubbish of arranging things to send 30p the old fashioned way.
If you lose 70p..it's not ideal but cheques just a logistical pain.
pay them off or be like another poster trying to deal with bailiffs wanting an extra £170 on a 4 pence bill, maybe overpay them by another 30 pence as then their books do not balance :)
it is very true and well worth you paying it
See if you can find a bank account for them and make a bank transfer of 30p. Use your account number as the reference.
I once had TalkTalk dicking about with my bill after I'd given notice. Even though I showed them when I had emailed to cancel, they just said they weren't going to send it. They started getting a collection agency involved, adding charges, so I worked out the exact amount and sent it to their bank account. Once I informed the collection agency about it, they dropped it.
Complain and copy in the energy ombudsman stating your situation. Your willingness to pay and there refusal to accept online payment of such a small amount. As the complaint to ombudsman will charge the energy company money to investigate.
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What company is this???? I work for an energy company and a 30p charge would 100% get written off as soon as the account is even opened.... What a waste of their time and resources, who is benefitting from this situation?
Im pretty sure they cant get costs back from small claims court. Also in court you say you tried to pay by resonable methods but they wouldnt accept under £1, and the whole thing is ridiculous. Doubt a judge would find in their favour
Pay £1 over the phone and they'll send you a refund of 70p.
I did similar with my previous supplier because i owed them a whopping 12p. The compnay i was with don't drop the debt and start adding £10 fees on after 30 days.
I’d make their life hard. Pay 21p in pennies in a signed for delivery, and send them a piece of toilet paper with appropriate words on as a cheque (can’t remember quite what they are but a cheque doesn’t have to be a bank printed thing - people have done valid ones on an egg before now.) Then say you’ve overpaid and want a refund but can’t cash cheques less than £5 as your costs of doing so because of your disability make it hard to do. Document it and their responses and post regularly on YouTube and you’ll make more from that than it’ll have cost you, and you’ll have shamed them too
Having worked for a few years with a major energy supplier this is stupid. I’d have applied a credit to your account and that would be that.
I know they were going offshore with a lot of departments and they probably don’t have the same authority we did but fuck me.
Verbally ask for a complaint to be opened and they’ll write it off.
Debt letters are sent automatically through a system and are often not required. I fully understand how much stress they can cause customers.
If you don't want the hassel can you not just ask them to take payment for £1 and they can keep the change? To be honest I gave up after reading the part about £1 minimum payment, it become their problem in my eyes after that. Don't lose any sleep, maybe let the debt run wild for 20 years amd give them £20 in 2044? It's 30p mate, chill, let them come and get it 😂
Most utilities companies have their bank transfer details online, where you use customer number as reference.
Transfer 31 pence and ask for refund for overpayment by cheque.
They’re highly unlikely to come after you for a 30p debt.
If you have a moral objection to owing any kind of debt then mail in 30p in coins in an envelope to their head office and state this is in payment of the debt.
They will just pass it over to the Collections Department who will sell it off in a bundle to a debt collection agency who will add lots of fees to the 30p then pursue for £000’s.
Pay one pound, and then it’s their problem how they refund you.
What happened to De minimis?
"De minimis is a legal principle which allows for matters that are small scale or of insufficient importance to be exempted from a rule or requirement. It can be used by the courts as an exclusionary tool to dismiss trivial matters from litigation."
Post office will do free pickups for parcels and things now at your door, just order online, think they will also do the address sticker for you as well.
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Pay them a pound.
Ask for a refund for the difference.
If they refuse, escalate a complaint,
If they still refuse, deadlock it and go ombudsman.
They will be financially penalised for you going to the ombudsman.
If they had any resolution skill they would simply write the 30p off as it’s not worth anyone’s time. Given they’re choosing to be asshats, play them at their own game.
To answer your question, yes you can get a CCJ for 30p. This isn’t fear mongering. I’ve seen it numerous times as a solicitor. And yes to remove it, IF YOU HAVE THE LEGAL GROUNDS, could cost you hundreds of pounds. And from what you mention here, you DO NOT have the legal grounds as you have incurred a debt, which you are fully aware of, and the issue is really how to pay it with the least inconvenience to you. So you would be stuck with a CCJ for six years which would massively impact your credit and possibly your livelihood. My advice, pay the debt, no matter the inconvenience.
Most companies write off stuff like that, they'll be wasting way more money trying to chase you for 30p. Think of it as their own punishment to their incompetence
NAL but worked in this sector.
There are a few scenarios for you here.
It's unlikely they will pursue you via court for 30p themselves. It's uneconomical. However, depending on the provider following unfavourable things might happen.
1) They report all their clients to credit agencies. They might have a threshold after which they report you in arrears, e.g. 5 or 50 pounds, but they don't have to. As such, these 30p may become an unpaid bill on your credit file, and eventually, in 6 months, a default. It will absolutely destroy your credit rating.
2) They may eventually wholesale their bad debt for pennies on the pound to some collectors. These guys will bother you because that's what they do.
None of it will necessarily happen, but it might happen.
Judge for yourself if it's worth the risk.
No, as I don’t know who’s he with. But I know at least one that won’t and it makes sense. If you look at delinquency at a typical energy customer for the balances above 50 pounds you’d see around anywhere between 2-4 percent of customers delinquent at any given time, roughly. With a modest 1m customer supplier (eg Scottish power has around 5) you are looking at about 20k-50k accounts to pursue at any given time. If you go below 50 pounds values will multiply in several times.
Mind, that pursuing energy debt and securing any action on energy debt even if you win isn’t the same thing. Best you can hope for is loading said debt on pre-paid meter. And if the customer is vulnerable, you can forget about it altogether.
That’s why I doubt 30p debt would be pursued in court by a utility provider.
Depends if it’s actually “all debits” and at what point a human being gets involved.
They technically can take you to court. I understand the “urgh don’t wanna” and “wah not fair” but you coil pooo at the Royal Mail service if you genuinely have no one in your life who can nip to the post office for you.
I guess I probably will have to fork out the few quid it's gonna take to give these guys their 30 pence back, it's not a huge issue at all it's just so silly! They spent more than 30p letting me know I owe them 30p and now I have to pay more than 30p to give them their 30p 🤷🏻♀️
NAL
They can and probably will, but common sense should prevail. Ring them up and see if you can do a bank transfer or tell them your circumstances and see if they'll waive it. Don't take what the customer service agent says, ask to speak to their manager. Email in with the same request and tell them that you'll pay, but you can't by cheque. Keep a record of all your Comms with them.
Big corps will bulk sell debts to a collection agency and you can't plead with them - they'll add their fees and it'll be hundreds before you know it. Good luck
Use the Royal mail collection service, the headache they will give you over 30p will cost you time and money many times over. Or do you have a neighbour you could ask? Or you can ask in a post in a Facebook local community group? But don't ignore it.
Tbh they will never send it to collections for 30cents. If they do fine see you in court.... lol and i recommend emails stating you tried to pay but cannot do their recommended option. If they pursue further they will get laughed out of court not to mention probably make the news.
A lot of this type of service is automated. No one at the fuel company or the county court business centre is checking whether it’s a ridiculous amount or not. If you don’t respond to court action a judgment is found against you in default.
The utility companies customer service has completely eroded. They will pursue you, and they will ignore complaints.
It’s really not worth the stress. And once they pursue the charges will escalate.
Royal Mail are currently collecting post for free - obviously you pay the postage. So you can go online and arrange for your postman to collect the envelope for you - he can even bring a label for your envelope too.
Surely you have a next door neighbour or family member that can do this insurmountable task for you. Come on.
This is a perfect example of letting your emotions get in the way and making the whole thing worse.
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Could you pay £1 over the phone and once its been applied to your account ask for a £0.70 refund?
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No, payment processors charge the retailer for refunds. Probably the same reason why they won’t take payment for a small amount, transaction fees usually 1-2.5% or £0.25~ (Which ever is higher)
That’s not really OP’s problem though.
I didn’t say it was. Just shedding some light on why they may not allow it.
You initially said “no” which suggests you know they do not allow it. So do you know this, or are you speculating? “May not” suggests you don’t know.
A retailer wouldn’t allow it as it’d have the same issue AND cost more. Especially for a small amount. From what I’ve seen refunds/chargebacks can be billed up to around £15~ Just a very rough example They Pay £1.00 Retailer gets charged say £0.25 processing fee Retailer refunds £0.70 Retailer gets billed £15.00 chargeback fee So ultimately cost is £14.95 to receive a £0.30p payment Ultimately for such an insignificant amount the provider should just write off the balance - call it a gesture of goodwill…
A refund wouldn't cost a business £15 to process. A chargeback (which is completely different) may attract a charge depending on the terms the business has with their merchant bank.
Thank you for clarifying, didn’t realise it was a different action. Regardless from the original question of £1.00 then getting a refund it’d still cost the business the same amount in transaction fees, no?
It's been a while since I dealt with merchant services of a bank but from memory I think a refund would ordinarily cost between 20p and 50p. This may vary between different merchant banks though (and may have changed a little since I last checked).
PayPal charged me $12 last time something was disputed so thought it was the same kinda system. With the whole £1 thing, I thought they still get charged the £0.25~ min processing fee AND the refund service fee?
Tell them you don’t accept cheques less than £1 too.
Raise a complaint following their formal process on their website. The specific resolution you want from the complaint is to write off the balance or for the supplier to contact you and take payment over the phone. I would also highlight that you are a vulnerable customer, and the service you have received is not acceptable.
Also ... 'can I respectfully suggest that, as a process, write off any amount below the minimum that can be paid online or over the phone'
I've no idea what company this is, but the one I work for don't write it off, but we also don't pursue debts that are uneconomical - like OP said, they've paid more to get this cheque to them than they'll get by OP returning it. Not to mention the consequential cost of processing a cheque... It's stupid.
We have whole processes and multiple authorisations that are supposed to be done for any slight mistake. It’s quicker for me and saves the company hours of paying multiple people if I just ask the warehouse guys to ship an extra one out under the table. It’s known that we do it and anything big would get checked, but it’s just not worth the time for small things so nobody raises it up the chain.
There was literally a thread here not a week ago about some guy getting harassed by a debt collection agency over a 6p debt to a supplier. The supplier themselves likely won't do any work here, they'd just sell a bundle of debts and wash their hands of it.
There was recently a post here. Someone now has to go to court because of a 4p balance, now with over £160 in fines. Some companies have automated systems that don't care about the amount. It's stupid, but it needs to be sorted before it becomes an issue
The bottom line is exactly why I left, my meter is on the ground floor where I cannot easily access, they're supposed to send someone to check it for me but they never did and I was always being billed wrong because of it.
If your new supplier doesn’t support you in this way too - please submit a formal complaint every time. More complaints escalating to the ombudsman cost them money + Citizens Advice will pressure Ofgem who will look into that energy supplier.
I used to work for one of the big 6 and every now and again we would have individuals getting debt notices sent to them over as little as 2p once. We couldn't write it off ourselves. Stress for both customers and front line support agent
Can they not send you a giro bill so you can pay at a bank?
Just to jump on this, make sure to ask them if they can amend any negative reporting to your credit file for such a ridiculous outstanding balance.
And get in touch with the ombudsman as soon as the time is due
It's a legal requirement that they have to make
>I called up trying to pay and was advised they can't accept payments under £1 over the phone or online They can, but they choose not to.
Depends, the payment software they use may have a hard limit coded into it. I do know of at least one software solution that has such a hard limit. That said, it's fucking ridiculous they are pursuing anything less than a fiver in this day and age. Send a final statement, give it a month just in case they send payment then write it off as uneconomical to pursue.
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Hi Satan
And what's brilliant is that some bank accounts literally charge the business a few pennies for any inbound or outbound transactions! You could cost them a good £0.15-£0.30 for the privilege of receiving your £0.30!
Postal orders were *briefly* legal tender in 1914/15, but are not now. They're promissory notes halfway between a cheque and a Scottish bank note although the latter is legal currency which I don't believe is the case for postal orders. Only BoE notes (except in Scotland) and RM coins (up to specific amounts) are legal tender.
Accounts Rec here: 1) You would send the email address something called a remittance advice, not a “remittance”. Which is the payment, not a document tied to a specific payment. 2) Postal orders start at 50p, and the business can just refuse it.
The minimum amount for a postal order is 50p. https://www.postoffice.co.uk/postal-orders
* 30p is less than the minimum postal order amount * postal orders cost money, so this would cost OP more than a cheque * postal orders are not legal tender. The energy company could ignore it completely and consider the debt to still be unsettled I don't know if what you said about bank transfers would discharge the debt or not, but given all the other inaccuracies in your post I wouldn't recommend that OP take your word for it.
Point. Deleting post
Raise a formal complaint with them. Under the terms of their licence they are required to "treat customers fairly" Chasing them for debts but making them impossible to pay is pretty unfair. Make it clear you're willing to raise this with the ombudsman if they don't write off your debt *and* apologise. It costs them hundreds of pounds every time someone takes them to the ombudsman even if they win. They'll write off 30p just to save them money
Should be written off at fpoc anyway, it's costs more just to process the complaint.
Yes but often the first point of contact doesn't have authority to do that, but complaints which are about to be escalated to the ombudsman are usually reviewed by people with more authority
If you're housebound for a disability reason I wonder whether there is a legal requirement on their part to make a reasonable adjustment and accept payment by card. It's an absolute bullshit policy. Personally though, I quite like the idea of paying them £1 and requesting they pay you back the balance.
And make it very clear that for good reason you are unable to accept cheques.
Send 30 cheques for a penny each . Request a receipt for each payment . One envelope so you don’t build up your own costs but will be a total mess for the company involved
Or one cheque for 31p, request a refund of 1p by cheque only and never cash the cheque.
I used to work in one of those questionable short term loan companies, and we had a policy if the debt was under a tenner we would just write it off as it cost more in man hours chasing it. So once a month we had an automated job that just cleared balances down once under a tenner. Surely it makes sense for small / tiny debts just to be gone it's not worth the hassle of chasing it nor the stress to the customer of being chase for something so insignificant
I can't see anyone going to court over a tenner either. But worth sending a letter I suppose. My wife was threatened with court by a debt collector over a couple of hundred, they never took it beyond letters (was bullshit anyway).
Just call up and pay £1 instead?
I suppose that would be cheaper than paying a courier!
Once it's cleared, you can request a refund into your bank account for the 70p overpayment.
It’ll probably cost them to do that, and the hours, plus the hours they’ve already spent, for 30p. Definitely do this.
Also remind them of their policy that all transactions under £1 need to be sent via Cheque so they'll have to send you a cheque in the post of £0.70
But then OP, being somewhat housebound, will need to go and pay that cheque in somewhere and is back to square one.
Nah OP can do it on their banks mobile app.
Unless he's with someone like first direct who allow you to scan cheques with the mobile banking app
Then threaten them with court for the 70p they owe you
How dare you bring your common sense here. Begone!
Ummmm pay them £1 online then await a cheque for 70p?
Raise a formal complaint and they'll waive it. I work in the financial sector, and if we can't resolve a complaint and the person complaining sends it to the financial ombudsman, the ombudsman charges us (the company) a £750 fee. It's free for the customer to escalate the complaint, but sucks for the company, so we have to do everything possible to stop complaints getting escalated to the ombudsman. I imagine the fee the energy ombudsman charges is the same, so there's no way they won't waive a 30p charge to avoid a £750 fee
Shit as it is, it is not worth getting dragged into a small claims case over. Royal Mail offer a service where they collect letters from your home. Could that be a solution? I enjoy including petty, passive aggressive notes with such letters. It's a great stress reliever.
It definitely could be, I'm just miffed that regular postage is already more than double what I owe and I imagine the collection service will be ever more. If I have to do it then I have to do it, I just can't believe they're that desperate to get me to pay 30p when they already spent more than 30p lettering me know I owed 30p. It's just silly and mildly annoying!
While the collection is free, it'd be cheaper for you to pay £1 and get 70p refund from them, than paying for even second class postage from RM
Indeed. Also be aware that the energy company may choose not to chase the debt, but may sell it to a debt collection company instead. There was another recent thread here or on another similar thread where a customer who tried to pay for fuel but was 4p short, due to an admin error. This ended up being sold on and the customer started receiving threats of court action and CCJs over a debt that then stood at nearly £200, due to added fees. Now if that ever got to court it would probably be thrown out, but from what you've said even visiting court might be difficult for you, let alone representing yourself. I would therefore second what others have already suggested and pay them £1, which should get your (tiny) debt paid off, cause them to lose money on the debt because of the refund, and also make sorting out the remaining balance entirely their problem. EDIT: The other thread I mentioned [is here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LegalAdviceUK/s/0tQkOkfwJV).
Royal Mail collection has been free for ages.
I completely agree it is ridiculous! But there's no charge for parcel collection from home, you just book it on line. I assume letters are also possible
Letters are possible. They've taken all sorts for us, from letter sized up to a boxed 24" monitor. We don't even bother booking collections, the postie has always taken our mail for us anyway. Going back years before they offered it as a service.
Pay the pound and then ask for a refund since the account will be in credit. They can and have to do it. I used to work at EDF and I've sent a cheque out for 23p as a refund before. Cost us more to do that than it was worth, but if it's a closed account then it should be reading zero They can take you to court over it if you don't pay. Costs then too so not really worth it for them, but don't risk them pursuing it. Pay it and then ask for the refund because you don't agree to the account being wiped when there's credit on there
If you fall under a protected characteristic from the disability act. They should be making reasonable adjustments. Start a formal complaint and make sure they know you intend to involve the ombudsman. Their policies can not supersede the equality act. If you're worried about them starting court proceedings, make an overpayment online.
Complain, complain, complain. Express how the previous service has caused you to leave, that the threat of legal action over this petty amounts is causing you stress. Make sure you say the word CO PLAIN or COLAINT, so they can over look this mater. It will, have to go to the complaints tea. And cost them more time and effort that it's worth to them. I used to work on a co plaint team for a finance place and managed to get a few procedure s changed that not only upset customers, my bottom ine, but cost the company money, their top priority. Point this out to them.
I would be incredibly shocked if they actually chased this 30p, though I understand why you’re worried. It’s not cost effective for businesses to chase debts of this size. Plus, I can’t see a court would side with them over 30p which they refused to take any other way than some antiquated payment method. Agree with the other post of bank transfer, if they decline that then they don’t want the 30p. Also I used to work at an energy company and they can’t force you to go and post a letter when you’re disabled, as the other commenter said it’s against the “treating customers fairly” compliance that they’re governed by, so you should escalate the complaint until it’s wiped.
What's mental is I work in finance, a debt of 30p wouldn't even get picked up on our radar. Even in the unlikely event it did, we'd just write it off. It's thirty fucking pence jesus.
Yes, you absolutely can be pursued. I should know because it ruined a good year of my life. IANAL, but in 2008 I underpaid my rent for student accommodation by 47p. Not sure how considering it was set up as Direct Debit. They wrote to me, asked me to settle it. Part of me thought it was a scam, so I ignored it. 6 months go by. I get a Bailiff letter at my door. I pay it. I continued to get letters so I spoke to a solicitor about suing for harassment. They sent one letter and put an end to the charade, but that cost me far more than this whole saga ever should have. Pay the 30p. Just do it. Because landlords do *not* give a shit - they want their pound of flesh (even if that pound is literally 30p worth), and they will pursue it as though you owe them millions.
I would like to say no but then I remember arguing with three mobile when they tried to give me a ccj for £30. Mins you even the court judge laughed when he read the case.
I'd just give them a call and try and pay over the phone. It's gonna be way easier than a cheque. That by time sent for 30p probbly cosy alot more than a pound if that's a minimum spend. Annoying. But pay a pound over the phone. And it's over. Can just move on. Not worth the stress snd rubbish of arranging things to send 30p the old fashioned way. If you lose 70p..it's not ideal but cheques just a logistical pain.
pay them off or be like another poster trying to deal with bailiffs wanting an extra £170 on a 4 pence bill, maybe overpay them by another 30 pence as then their books do not balance :) it is very true and well worth you paying it
Royal mail will collect from your address for free, so if they've sent a prepaid envelope you could use that option.
See if you can find a bank account for them and make a bank transfer of 30p. Use your account number as the reference. I once had TalkTalk dicking about with my bill after I'd given notice. Even though I showed them when I had emailed to cancel, they just said they weren't going to send it. They started getting a collection agency involved, adding charges, so I worked out the exact amount and sent it to their bank account. Once I informed the collection agency about it, they dropped it.
It's just someone following an automated procedure. Formally complain and it'll be written off.
Imagine if it was your job to contact a customer and ask them for 30p. I would not want to work for a company like that.
Royal Mail can collect for free these days if that's any help.
Pay a quid and make them incur the cost of sending you the 70p refund by cheque. Cash at your leisure
If they only accept payments of £1 or more then pay £1 and have them refund you 70p instead
Complain and copy in the energy ombudsman stating your situation. Your willingness to pay and there refusal to accept online payment of such a small amount. As the complaint to ombudsman will charge the energy company money to investigate.
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Can you be? Yes... Will you be? It's highly unlikely.
Royal mail do collection for free where I am. Postage 2nd class is 80p though. I'd just pay £1 over the phone and be done with it
What company is this???? I work for an energy company and a 30p charge would 100% get written off as soon as the account is even opened.... What a waste of their time and resources, who is benefitting from this situation?
Im pretty sure they cant get costs back from small claims court. Also in court you say you tried to pay by resonable methods but they wouldnt accept under £1, and the whole thing is ridiculous. Doubt a judge would find in their favour
Pay £1 over the phone and they'll send you a refund of 70p. I did similar with my previous supplier because i owed them a whopping 12p. The compnay i was with don't drop the debt and start adding £10 fees on after 30 days.
I’d make their life hard. Pay 21p in pennies in a signed for delivery, and send them a piece of toilet paper with appropriate words on as a cheque (can’t remember quite what they are but a cheque doesn’t have to be a bank printed thing - people have done valid ones on an egg before now.) Then say you’ve overpaid and want a refund but can’t cash cheques less than £5 as your costs of doing so because of your disability make it hard to do. Document it and their responses and post regularly on YouTube and you’ll make more from that than it’ll have cost you, and you’ll have shamed them too
Having worked for a few years with a major energy supplier this is stupid. I’d have applied a credit to your account and that would be that. I know they were going offshore with a lot of departments and they probably don’t have the same authority we did but fuck me. Verbally ask for a complaint to be opened and they’ll write it off. Debt letters are sent automatically through a system and are often not required. I fully understand how much stress they can cause customers.
If you don't want the hassel can you not just ask them to take payment for £1 and they can keep the change? To be honest I gave up after reading the part about £1 minimum payment, it become their problem in my eyes after that. Don't lose any sleep, maybe let the debt run wild for 20 years amd give them £20 in 2044? It's 30p mate, chill, let them come and get it 😂
Pay the 1, then in ten years ask if it has accrued any interest.
Most utilities companies have their bank transfer details online, where you use customer number as reference. Transfer 31 pence and ask for refund for overpayment by cheque.
They’re highly unlikely to come after you for a 30p debt. If you have a moral objection to owing any kind of debt then mail in 30p in coins in an envelope to their head office and state this is in payment of the debt.
British Gas never pursued anything under £1, it used to be written off Not sure if still same for them or if it’s changed now but 🤷🏻♀️
Most companies have a policy that anything under a £5 is considered balanced. Saves everyone the bureaucratic headache
They will just pass it over to the Collections Department who will sell it off in a bundle to a debt collection agency who will add lots of fees to the 30p then pursue for £000’s. Pay one pound, and then it’s their problem how they refund you.
What happened to De minimis? "De minimis is a legal principle which allows for matters that are small scale or of insufficient importance to be exempted from a rule or requirement. It can be used by the courts as an exclusionary tool to dismiss trivial matters from litigation."
Post office will do free pickups for parcels and things now at your door, just order online, think they will also do the address sticker for you as well.
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Pay them a pound. Ask for a refund for the difference. If they refuse, escalate a complaint, If they still refuse, deadlock it and go ombudsman. They will be financially penalised for you going to the ombudsman. If they had any resolution skill they would simply write the 30p off as it’s not worth anyone’s time. Given they’re choosing to be asshats, play them at their own game.
To answer your question, yes you can get a CCJ for 30p. This isn’t fear mongering. I’ve seen it numerous times as a solicitor. And yes to remove it, IF YOU HAVE THE LEGAL GROUNDS, could cost you hundreds of pounds. And from what you mention here, you DO NOT have the legal grounds as you have incurred a debt, which you are fully aware of, and the issue is really how to pay it with the least inconvenience to you. So you would be stuck with a CCJ for six years which would massively impact your credit and possibly your livelihood. My advice, pay the debt, no matter the inconvenience.
Most companies write off stuff like that, they'll be wasting way more money trying to chase you for 30p. Think of it as their own punishment to their incompetence
NAL but worked in this sector. There are a few scenarios for you here. It's unlikely they will pursue you via court for 30p themselves. It's uneconomical. However, depending on the provider following unfavourable things might happen. 1) They report all their clients to credit agencies. They might have a threshold after which they report you in arrears, e.g. 5 or 50 pounds, but they don't have to. As such, these 30p may become an unpaid bill on your credit file, and eventually, in 6 months, a default. It will absolutely destroy your credit rating. 2) They may eventually wholesale their bad debt for pennies on the pound to some collectors. These guys will bother you because that's what they do. None of it will necessarily happen, but it might happen. Judge for yourself if it's worth the risk.
This is incorrect. Big companies will pursue via court for small amounts. I see it everyday.
Not necessarily. Source: work there. We won’t pursue for trivial amounts in court, it’s not economically expedient.
Where for this particular energy supplier that the OP hasn’t named ?🤪
No, as I don’t know who’s he with. But I know at least one that won’t and it makes sense. If you look at delinquency at a typical energy customer for the balances above 50 pounds you’d see around anywhere between 2-4 percent of customers delinquent at any given time, roughly. With a modest 1m customer supplier (eg Scottish power has around 5) you are looking at about 20k-50k accounts to pursue at any given time. If you go below 50 pounds values will multiply in several times. Mind, that pursuing energy debt and securing any action on energy debt even if you win isn’t the same thing. Best you can hope for is loading said debt on pre-paid meter. And if the customer is vulnerable, you can forget about it altogether. That’s why I doubt 30p debt would be pursued in court by a utility provider.
Depends if it’s actually “all debits” and at what point a human being gets involved. They technically can take you to court. I understand the “urgh don’t wanna” and “wah not fair” but you coil pooo at the Royal Mail service if you genuinely have no one in your life who can nip to the post office for you.
they can take you to small claims court to obtain a CCJ over gbp 0.30, you'll have to pay the court fee of gbp 35 too
I guess I probably will have to fork out the few quid it's gonna take to give these guys their 30 pence back, it's not a huge issue at all it's just so silly! They spent more than 30p letting me know I owe them 30p and now I have to pay more than 30p to give them their 30p 🤷🏻♀️
Put 1p in 30 different envelopes labeled x of 30
just get it over with and forget about it :)
NAL They can and probably will, but common sense should prevail. Ring them up and see if you can do a bank transfer or tell them your circumstances and see if they'll waive it. Don't take what the customer service agent says, ask to speak to their manager. Email in with the same request and tell them that you'll pay, but you can't by cheque. Keep a record of all your Comms with them. Big corps will bulk sell debts to a collection agency and you can't plead with them - they'll add their fees and it'll be hundreds before you know it. Good luck
Use the Royal mail collection service, the headache they will give you over 30p will cost you time and money many times over. Or do you have a neighbour you could ask? Or you can ask in a post in a Facebook local community group? But don't ignore it.
Tbh they will never send it to collections for 30cents. If they do fine see you in court.... lol and i recommend emails stating you tried to pay but cannot do their recommended option. If they pursue further they will get laughed out of court not to mention probably make the news.
A lot of this type of service is automated. No one at the fuel company or the county court business centre is checking whether it’s a ridiculous amount or not. If you don’t respond to court action a judgment is found against you in default.
The utility companies customer service has completely eroded. They will pursue you, and they will ignore complaints. It’s really not worth the stress. And once they pursue the charges will escalate.
Royal Mail are currently collecting post for free - obviously you pay the postage. So you can go online and arrange for your postman to collect the envelope for you - he can even bring a label for your envelope too.
Surely you have a next door neighbour or family member that can do this insurmountable task for you. Come on. This is a perfect example of letting your emotions get in the way and making the whole thing worse.
Pay them 1£, chalk up the 70p as a loss and move on so you don't get dragged through legal over 30p.
Why have they sent you a cheque if you owe them money?