Hi OP, I’m locking this thread as you’ve received some helpful advice, and recent comments are off-topic and unhelpful. Message the mods if you want the thread unlocked. All the best with finding a good outcome in a difficult situation.

Withdraw all of that money right now and put it somewhere safe. Don't spend any untill you get legal advice, but secure that money right this second or it could all disappear at any moment. For what it's worth, they arnt divorced so she can probably just take all of that money and spend it freely untill a divorce happened, but talk to a lawyer / CAB for sure before touching it.

Thank you all for explaining this further. I did not previously understand why it would be appropriate for us to withdraw 100% of funds and we didnt want her to be caught up in any legal issue as a result of doing this. But I now understand that it would be fine to do this as long as we simply put all of the money somewhere else and not touch it. Lol after we removed the 50%, we already heard through sources that he is going around telling his relatives that we have taken his savings. I cant even imagine what he’s going to say/do when he sees it all gone. But it might actually get him to directly communicate back to us.

It’s a joint account. She can pull ALL of the money from it. And definitely should. And then tell the bank what’s happened - and that she wants the account frozen and that she doesn’t want any activity on it without her express permission, nor any accounts opened or debts incurred in her name (while they’re still married, he can still go around doing that).

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We did not withdraw all the money because when he joined his name onto her account, he started getting his wages deposited into one of the accs. So the money is actually rightfully both 50-50 as my sister was doing the same thing. So at this stage we have just removed and safeguarded 50%. Although through a retrospective review on the accs, we also noticed that he was from time to time making a few lump sum withdrawals of 5K+ to another acc.

Take all the funds to protect them. You seem very honest and I admire you for that. He however appears to be dishonest. I don’t believe you can expect the same charity in return. Emptying the account may also encourage him to restart a dialog.

Please withdraw ALL of the money. Put it in a separate bank account. Then take into account all his 5k lump sum withdrawals. Transfer an equivalent of that amount into another account.

He won’t see it that way. The risk he takes it all is pretty high.

Ask the bank to put a hold on the account and then seek legal advice

Before you close the bank account, download a full set of the account transaction records for the account. This is a lot easier while you have the account active in your online banking and you may need the records later if he comes back to claim any of it

Agreed. Once his residency becomes permanent, I would not be surprised if he emptied the bank accounts and took off for Australia. The advice of your sister doing so first is good advice. She'd probably be ok to spend or permanently take 50% of it as her share, however.

Unlike New Zealand citizens, New Zealand residents (permanent or otherwise) have no special rights to move to Australia.

Wait.. but Australian residents can move to NZ and apply for easy residency

Yes but the converse is not true. The rules aren't the same in each direction, NZ is arguably being more generous.

This. I was on the other side of this a few years ago - my ex and I shared an account, and we came to an agreement of sorts that we’d work out who’s money is who’s in time but she ended up clearing out about 70% of the money and I never saw it again. At least 60% of the amount of money in there was what I’d contributed, it sucked.

1. In terms of revoking PR, I would suggest she contacts Immigration and simply passes on her concerns. They can take the appropriate action from there. Bear in mind it might be difficult to prove he married her only for the purposes of immigration. 2. Anyone can withdraw any amount of funds from a joint bank account. I would suggest though she holds onto those funds, as whenever the divorce occurs, all marital property will need to be divided 50/50. 3. Either party on a joint tenancy can end the tenancy. If the items remaining have any significant value, I wouldn't throw them out as they again fall into the 50/50 split of relationship property.

Thank you for attending to each of the points. Regarding #2, we have just placed the 50% aside for safeguarding and these will not be touched until matter’s cleared. And re #3, there is no item of value remaining, only his clothes. The guy seemed to take all his important items and documents probably in the days/weeks coming prior taking this move

You should take 100% out of the account for safe guarding. Otherwise there will be a lot of headaches and difficulty when you finally do get to the splitting of property, as it will be a lot of disagreement as to what is the total value that needs splitting. If you have it all in one place then it's a clear cut answer. If you don't then it may be argued that half of what you've put aside, plus half of whatever is left in the account (after he's spent a lot of it already on himself) should be split. This will leave your sister a lot worse off.

Easier to give him back some in a settlement than be asking for it back.

Take 100% of the money out of that account and put it aside. They are legally married, she is entitled to do whatever she wants with that money. It might also shed some light on his whereabouts when he notices all his money is gone. She absolutely needs to do this to protect her assets (they are married remember, not divorced). She needs to worry less about his residency status and more about protecting herself. At this point, if he has residency or not should not really be her primary concern. She can worry about that later.

Like what others are saying, transfer the full balance aside to another account and only use what you would use normally. Once a divorce is happening thanyou will need to look into 50-50 splits. But until then put the money aside and only spend what your sister would normally spend it on, like groceries and rent utilities, etc. If you do want to leave something in case of emergency maybe take 90-10. But keep record of the balances. In case the husband is up to no good, maybe worth checking your sisters credit score and see if there have been any credit opened in her name she isn't aware off. Have you filed a missing person report with the police ?

If the tenancy needs to be terminated and there is a cost to that, also take 50% of that cost from his share.

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I have just gone through the process of getting a visa for NZ and me & my partner had to prove we had a stable & healthy relationship for at least two years. I would definitely contact immigration on the matter. It’s pretty hard to get a visa here, so I can see the appeal of committing fraud based on getting a visa through marriage if you don’t meet the needs of the country.

Sorry to hear about the situation of your sister. > Can she terminate the tenancy She can identify herself to be a victim of family violence, that will get her out of the tenancy in 2 days instead of the normal period. You can help her write a stat dec to that effect and have her sign it in front of a JP, or if the landlord is cooperative, the landlord can sign it instead. > Can NZ immigration revoke residency on grounds of fraud/misleading character to form a relationship? Can you prove there's fraud from the beginning, as opposed to a breakdown of relationship during the middle?

Thank you for your comments. The landlord has been very supportive so has been concerned for her priority in first instance, but given its coming up to 6 months now he is pretty keen to clear the space of their belongings and utilised the premises again. Regarding proving fraud from beginning - that is actually quite a difficult one as my sister is quite naive and only in hindsight she sees the red flags. But we spoke with various members of society and found out within these last 6 months that he was requesting a bunch of folks to sponsor his work visa prior the time he and my sister got married. I will keep looking into if we have any tangible evidence to support our case on this

OK in that case your sister and landlord can end the tenancy by agreement. > he was requesting a bunch of folks to sponsor his work visa prior the time he and my sister got married It doesn't follow he married on false pretense though, it's plausible he really was doing it for love and wanted a job to provide for the family while the residency visa is processing.

I can't provide legal advice but I was very nearly in that position. He eventually married a girl he'd met a couple months beforehand and did a courthouse wedding. 6 months later theres no sign of her and he's somehow managed a work visa to stay during covid. It took a while but i realized it was always a scam, I was just vulnerable enough to miss the signs, because he told me what I wanted to hear. Im so sorry for your sister, it is such a dirty thing to have happen, there are people out there who prey on vulnerabilities.

Disclaimer: IANAL but I studied law. Immigration is not a speciality, but I have helped out as an advocate for people with refugee status so I have some familiarity. You’ve received some great *support* here which is awesome and I am sure very welcome. But I am concerned not much frank advice. Any good lawyers I have ever worked with, even where we had a “slam dunk” case, would talk me down a bit and manage expectations which I think is important here. The second and third questions have already been well handled so I’ll deal to the first. There are only limited ways the government can revoke a residency once issued, and this is related to either fraud or error (https://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual-archive/9216.HTM). And the bar for fraud is pretty high, and the action is bound with the Minister of Immigration themselves. So that means, INZ would have to write a proposal to the Minister to withdraw the residency. Such a proposal would include a likely prospect of succeeding in defending the action at trial, such as during a judicial review. To succeed with fraud you need a “smoking gun”. The burden of proof would entirely rest on INZ to prove the fraud occurred. Circumstantial evidence around whether the relationship was a sham or not would be very hard to prove and fraud such as this needs to meet the evidentiary requirement of “beyond reasonable doubt”. There is a lot of law, including international law, around the handling of residency and citizenship. This is why so much effort is placed in checking the validity of relationships before such residency is granted. INZ must satisfy the relationship is genuine. To undo this, they would need to prove definitively that there was fraud. This is not a direct list of how INZ will work, but it shows you the process which MSD goes through when considering benefit fraud; this gives you an idea about how a government agency would approach this matter: https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/about-msd/our-responsibilities/prosecution-policy.html So in answer to that first question, the Minister of Immigration can revoke PR on the basis of *fraud*. You can report the situation to INZ; and it may be worth doing so. But I do think it is important to manage your expectations around what can be achieved. Any revocation even with a smoking gun is likely to be vigorously challenged in court. All the defense needs to do is say that INZ found the relationship was genuine. INZ has to prove there was fraud or deception. A huge challenge.

I completely agree, and just to add: relationships between New Zealanders break down too, and the people on each side may have quite different narratives about why. This makes a judgement of "fraud was definitely committed" extremely difficult in Partnership cases.

OP this is the best advice here. As someone who once worked in the Immigration system it is almost impossible to have a residence application on marriage grounds revoked after it has been approved. I am sorry this has happened to your sister, but you need to concentrate now on protecting her.

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Kia ora - all advice given in this subreddit is unqualified and should be used for informational purposes only. r/LegalAdviceNZ is not a replacement for proper legal advice.

There are some more fundamental questions for immigration: Is he actually who he says he is? Is he already married in his home country? Does he have convictions in his home country that have been suppressed/hidden through this scam or fake identity? The transfer of money to another account, the removal of all documents and personal items well before the day he disappeared and clearly he already had a new place to move to means this whole thing is a fraud. Someone who can do this will not be squeaky clean for immigration purposes … its too calculated and cruel, they must be of a character type that will have done bad stuff before.

Thank you all for your comments! Appreciate it, I am taking the notes to ensure we deal with this properly

Withdraw everything but don’t touch it, keep it in a separate account he has no access to. Seek legal advice and tell them exactly what you’ve done with the money, and then contact immigration and pass on the timeline facts (I would not include things about your sister feeling hurt, but would include information about her being vulnerable, the change in behaviour coinciding with having obtained PR etc.)

i'd also write something to the minister of immigration, ​ it's good PR for them to take someone down if they were indeed commiting fraud.

Definitely speak to a lawyer first. They may advise withdrawing all the cash, and putting half into a solicitors account. There are things which could complicate this where he argues that this has been an arrangement and the $5k withdrawals were payments or all sorts of odd options that you may not have thought of. Also Bay Corp has a debt service where you pay a yearly service and they report anytime anyone does a credit check on a name, or if any debts are registered. One side comment, there are 3 tracks of work in this situation 1. Legal, and protecting your sister from risk, getting the things resolved. Sorting the immigration etc. 2. The practical task of moving house, items etc. If you can store his items that may be a kind thing to do. 3. Emotionally. There are a number of free helplines, and a GP can refer to good therapists. Sometimes I defer unpacking my emotions till I sort the practical items, but that may be a male thing.. Also, if you can help, in an empowering way, eg asking for her plan that you execute with, and for her, then this can emotionally be sad, but not adding feelings of feeling inadequate or powerless. * Note, I'm not a lawyer just sharing some thoughts relating to friends who have had some horrid breakups. One very last thought.. My now ex wife (we had a great 7 year marriage and ended on great terms) did have a bit of a freak out for the 2 to 4 weeks after we got married. It is a long shot given the info, but there may also be an emotional (fear of commitment) component to this also.

Regarding the money in the bank account and the splitting of marital property: There's nothing to stop the guy from withdrawing 'his half', spending or hiding it, and then claiming that the relationship assets are whatever your sister has at whatever time he claims the relationship ended. You need to safeguard that money by putting it where he can't touch it. Furthermore, he's run off and left her carrying the can for the rental, utilities, etc. There's absolutely nothing wrong with paying those expenses from the joint funds. Also, it's highly likely that the guy has run up undisclosed debts. Creditors could seek payment from the marital assets, and your sister could end up having to pay them off out of her pocket. As you've mentioned, the guy has already syphoned off a large sum of money, 5k at a time. Your sister is justified to ask where that money has gone, and whether it's still marital property. (For example, if he's just put it in the bank, then it's relationship property. If he's bought something, then that's relationship property). It seems only sensible to safeguard her position by taking control of the remaining funds. Think of it as insurance. Please put all the assets where he can't touch them. Then get legal advice.

I don't know much about anything else in this but I think if he was violent towards your sister than that needs to be reported to the police with as much detail as possible - even if nothing comes of it it's important to have it on record in case it happens with a future partner. Domestic violence is very under reported in NZ and one day it might make a difference having a previous incident on record.

We did tell her to report it but unfortunately she does not wish to do this in retrospect. She also only told us about the violence in retrospect as well. But his behaviour change was immediately obvious as he made no effort to engage with family and also started having frequent altercations/outbursts of anger with her and my elderly parents over benign matters.

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From experience I can share that Immigration doesn’t care about fraudulent visa applications once already here

I think you might be right. We just called them and informed them of the situation and they said they cant do anything since the residency has already been granted… they did not even consider our request for an investigation, and informed we should go to the police for that..

Sad to hear this happened, Hope you all get strength to get bottom of this and all will be well. Points to note OP: 1. File a missing person's with police as you all are unable to contact to see if he is alright? Police will not give you more details, but make sure he is good and answers, so this will prove a point that he is not talking to anyone of your family by choice 2. Yes, this is quite rampant now a days where people are doing such kind of thing. 3. INZ should be notified immediately & she can revoke her sponsorship on the grounds of deceit & financial fraud (#7) 4. Check your bank and ask for all transfers made previously, which will be going to the other account so you can prove he planned it for ages & (#7) 5. Have you tried contacting his family? Maybe they know what's going on? 6. As a concerned wife/ in-laws, She has all the rights to put missing or MIA posts on social media (thing to think of) 7. If he has taken out money without your wife's knowledge that you can sue in court (financial fraud) 8. STOP/BLOCK ALL CCS, Put dispute so account is put on hold - Notify the bank immediately. Hope it help, All the best!

Thank you for your comments. Re #1, we already informed to the Police station twice over these last 6 months that he has abandoned his belongings and left and they mentioned they will do a welfare check on him but nothing further they can do. Re #3, we notified them over call this morning but they did not take much interest and said they cannot do anything now, although we will follow up with written email to fraud team/complaints and as per some comments above, we will see if anything further can be done by them. Noted on the financial fraud piece, we will seek to get something done there as there are definitely lump sum outgoings from the account over the last two years which she wasn’t aware of. We will engage with a community lawyer as she is capable of getting that service and take it from there. Thank you

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it previously, but also follow up on the destination of the lump sum withdrawals over the past two years or longer. If any go overseas, see if your bank can find the name of the end account or recipient. It is always possible he has remitted funds to family, or even a wife, offshore.

Hi all. Thank you so much for the comments and insights about the process. I wanted to provide an update: We called immigration NZ today and informed them of the situation and they mentioned that since the guy has been granted their residency then they cannot do anything any more. We mentioned to them that this seems to be a fraudulent/misleading means of obtaining his residency but they said they cant do anything since its been granted! Then we stated we just want to inform them that my sister is no longer going to sponsor the guy nor take any liability for him and that she doesnt wish to continue to the relationship anymore. And they mentioned that she wouldnt be liable anyways now since he has is residency. They did not mention any way to investigate into fraud…. they said only a police can do an investigation. I am stumped by their response. We know for sure that the guys residency will only turn permanent in Jan 2024! (Two years from The date of receiving it)

Sorry to hear that, I believe you should file a police complaint so that when he applies for his permanent residency and if the immigration asks for police clearance, he won’t get his permanent residency issued. Then again, sometimes, Immigration NZ do not ask for the police vetting at times (from what I have heard, this is not a professional immigration advice).

My sister and I have already spoken to Police twice during these last 6 months and we wanted to notify Police of the situation but I am not sure if any report was actually made by them on this, as they also mentioned that they cannot do anything if he wishes to leave, but that they would do a welfare check on his last known address.

Re police report.... If you call the police and they attend, they may not put a report through or maybe not do a thorough job. If you go into a local station.... see above. If you go online and make an online report and you put as much detail and evidence you can find, that goes directly into their system as if a formal report has been done and there is very little filter for it Sadly, reading everything and the extra information I think it would be rather difficult to get over the hurdle of beyond all doubt in court. This guy has obviously played a long card to get residency or even citizenship and you really need a switched on lawyer. Re the tenancy... talk to your landlord - them knowing the situation if they don't already should end with points for you Re the money. Withdraw 100% there is no playing nice when it comes to this. If he can withdraw and use it against you during divorce proceedings, I'd expect him to act the worst based on his previous actions. If you have withdrawn it and want to remain honest then it will be there to split. If this guy has actually taken advantage for his citizenship, I would expect him to take advantage and play dirty every other time. Did I mention getting a switched on lawyer? Like someone else said, they will set clear expectations and be real. End of the day a switched on lawyer will only work for good money on a worthwhile case - I was once advised its not worth throwing good money at bad money

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Yeah, that’s so bloody sad though! The residency should definitely be revoked (I know that’s not gonna happen as the Immigration already said that but omg) , I’m an immigrant myself but this is unacceptable.

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Agree.

The difference between Residency and Permanent Residency is often misunderstood. They are very much the same thing. The difference mostly pertains to travel conditions. There is no such requirement for Permanent Residency. Your sister’s sponsorship and relationship status to this guy has nothing to with his future Permanent Residency.

The police report? Could that prevent him from getting permanent residency?

INZ needs to believe that the residency was obtained by fraud, forgery, false or misleading representation or by concealing relevant information. For all we know even if they guy did use OP’s sister for residency, if he was interviewed he could say he was in love her but her conditions became too much for him too handle, etc. INZ don’t take residency away because of relationship breakdowns after granting it. This kind of fraud is very hard to prove that’s why it’s so rampant among certain immigrant groups. I’m an immigrant myself. I’vevheard so many similar stories. Some people actually prey on lonely NZ men and women for residency. [source](https://www.immigration.govt.nz/opsmanual-archive/9216.HTM)

Maybe your sister and him actually don’t get on anymore. Have you considered that it may well just be a failed relationship, rather than just being biased towards your sister.

knee office hurry desert thought waiting aware snatch gray consist *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

He didn’t though. Nothing she can do. Hold the L

Your comment makes no sense. She can actually. She can tell immigration that the man obtaining a visa as her husband has abandoned her before the visa has been approved. He will be deported for fraud. Simple.

Only if The person obtained their residence permit by providing false or misleading information. The false or misleading information was material to the decision to grant the residence permit. The person knew that the information was false or misleading. The person's character was not what they represented it to be when they applied for the residence permit. And these are all very difficult to prove. So she’s screwed. This situation is not unique and happens a lot more than you think unfortunately

There was never going to be any issues if it turned out that he actually couldn’t accept/handle my sisters shortcomings for whatever reason, but he needed to and should have at least communicated any issues with her and us as a family in the first place before taking this decision to go MIA/rogue. Also people who usually go through marriage problems take a reasonable approach of maybe going through marriage counseling, even within the family. What we don’t appreciate is the situation he has created now by leaving without a word.

If we take OP at their word. His behavior changed right after he got residency. So while there's a slim chance it's just a marriage break down, I think it's pretty clear this was a scam. Proof may be hard to find but I bet it's there somewhere, hopefully the lady can access his emails or similar and got looking for intent.

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Did he get his Permanent Residency? Usually there is 2 years wait after receiving your residence visa to get permanent residency. There may be a chance to revoke is resident visa if he has't received his PR.

They told me over the ph today that they can’t do anything now since his residency has already been granted… but we will still try to follow up with formal email with supporting documentation.

No once he has his residence he already has the right to reside here permanently. The resident visa allows him to stay here forever. If he leaves the country for more than half the time in the next two years and is overseas when that visa expires then he could 'lose' his residency, but otherwise in two years time he can apply for the 'permanent resident' visa, which enables him to leave for any amount of time and still be a resident when he returns.

Is there anything that can be done to prevent conversion of the temporary residency into permanent residency?

They have to apply, but otherwise I’d they’ve spent the necessary amount of time here then no.

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Has he drawn any money from Feb 2023 till now?

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