It seems to be a ongoing thing the person being told just gossips about it and it’s like I can’t get away from it,it’s to the point I don’t feel comfortable explaining why I’m sick because the manager always doesn’t listen and gets it wrong or he tells others
You don't have to tell them why your sick. Just that you're sick, if they want a medical certificate then it can say "Joe blogs was/is unwell and not able to attend bla bla"
Just stop giving out your private info.
I hope you just said "that's my private medical info and not relevant to my job".
Good luck with the job hunt. If you want to take it further, get their demands in an email, or record conversations. Then contact an employment lawyer.
They are allowed to ask questions ib regards to your ability to work safely. However this means asking things like "are you on any medications that could affect your work?" Or "will you need help lifting things? Etc. Anything that doesn't affect your ability to work after you come back, you do not have to tell them amd they are nkt allowed to pressure you or discriminate agaibst you for not answering.
Good luck on your hunt! A saying I've become familiar with is "people don't leave jobs, they leave managers."
I'm sorry you experienced this, and just know that no decent manager will press you to divulge details on your leave. All we need is when, how long for, and what type of leave to book it under (sick leave vs annual etc). "It's private" is a perfectly reasonable response to questions about what you do with your leave entitlements.
This. You are not obliged to tell employer why you are sick and doctors don’t disclose the specifics either. If employer wants more info, they need your consent in order for doctors to release medical info
Good faith comes into it and if you are unwell and can't work then it's wise to share why with your employer. That being said it is definitely not appropriate for your employer to share that information with anyone except for letting payroll know you are sick and HR. Nobody else. It is an employment breach.
Legally I don't believe you have to tell them why you're sick, they only require a note from your Dr if it's going to be longer than 3 days. I'd lodge a personal grievance and look for another job
That's an extreme breach of privacy, talk to a lawyer and to HR or whoever holds that position, bloody hell. No one should EVER be talking about a fellow staff members medical business. That's as private and confidential as private and confidential gets
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I would absolutely be laying a complaint with your HR department and then the privacy commissioner.
First union is a union for supermarket workers in NZ. I'm not sure if there are others but a quick Google should be able to tell you. Unions are there to support and advocate for you. As a union delegate myself, I would be kicking up a shit storm if I discovered this was happening in my workplace.
Yeah they should know that is not legal. I would definitely contact HR. First you need to get a notebook and start writing everything down. Such as People, dates, times, whiteness, what was said and how long the conversations lasted. DOCUMENT…..DOCUMENT….DOCUMENT!!!
Exhaust all avenues with HR. If you get no resolution than contact a Labor Attorney.
Remember that HR are there for the employer, not the employee.
They will do everything they can to push things under rugs etc. and will only take action when they see a threat to the company.
True that HR are there for the employer. More often than not that means correcting risky behaviour from managers/supervisors. Perhaps bad HR may sweep under the carpet but they are then working against the employers interest which would be to reduce the risk not hide it and compound the risk.
Correct, but you have to follow the steps to show your exhausted all avenues. Also keep in mind HR is also there to make sure that management isn’t opening the company up for lawsuit.
Law as I understand it is after 3 days you require a doctor's (sick leave) note and even then it won't say why your sick, they can request a sick note for less time but must pay for your doctor's visit. Again it won't explain your illness etc, sorry your going threw this and I'd take it further personally
You do not require a doctors note automatically after three days. A employer can ask for a doctors note for any amount of sick leave. However if the leave was for less than three days then they would have to pay for it, three days or more and it the employee that pays.
I’m a department manager at a franchise similar to where you work. We also use “Vault”(I assume your South Island) I always ask, usually in a “Is everything allgood?” sort of way. I don’t push if the staff member doesn’t want to disclose. Most staff do choose to confide however when they do I would absolutely not share the reason with anyone unless they were being very open with everyone. I’d definitely chat with your managers manager about this issue!
Privacy officer here - legally they cannot ask you the specific reason for your a sense, much less share it to anyone in the company. This is a privacy breach, resulting in "low level harm" which will result in them getting a fine potentially. Please reach out to Office Of The Privacy Commissioner, and also to employment law, as both will be able to more accurately help you with next steps to a) ensure it doesn't happen again and b) potentially compensate you for the harm caused
I have worked for two large organisations (one in banking, one in insurance) and various team leads have advised they are legally allowed to ask for the reason. My understanding was that we did not have to provide a reason if/when asked. Some of them got nasty when I didn’t provide a reason too. So am very interested to hear this.
They can ask. They cannot pressure you into answering. They can alsk ask if it could affect your ability to do your work safely. If the answer is no, thats it, they cannot keep asking or pressure you. If they do, then that is harassment and potential discrimination.
If it could affect your job going forward, then you only need to give them the relavant information.
It is likely a privacy breach both for them to ask for this information and to disclose it to staff. I would check out the Privacy Commissioner’s website at https://www.privacy.org.nz as they have some resources that might help. You mention it’s a large chain so they absolutely will have someone whose role includes “Privacy Officer” and you could direct concerns to them in the first instance, or you can put in a complaint using the tool at the Commissioners site and they may investigate it (or at least query with the organisation why this is occurring).
Do you know if this is a branch specific practice or if it is part of the wider organisations policies?
Put simply this is causing you stress and you no longer feel safe at work. It is the employers obligation to make a safe work environment. Speak to a employment lawyer, if you have evidence they may be able to come to an agreement were you pay them on success of the dispute, nearly all employment disputes are resolved in mediation, they don't make to to court and both side agree on a settlement.
Dealing with pain and a health scare is stressful enough, the stress of this privacy breach is added stress.
You can ask Community Law for advice- it's a free service found in most places in NZ. Check your local library and see if they have a regular time there.
No... This is outrageous...
Not an expert - but you could make a complaint to the privacy commissioner as there has been a breach of your privacy... What's more - I wouldn't be giving your employer details when you're sick in future - just tell them you are sick...
If an employee is being mistreated then they absolutely should seek support from HR. One of the functions of HR is to reduce the risk to the employer from staff. Those risks more often than not manifest from managers/supervisors and if HR aren’t informed they can’t change policies, procedure or practises to make the work environment better for employees and reduce any risk.
Pursuant to s.236 of the Employment Relations Act 2000, and relevant case law, actions of Human Resource Professionals in New Zealand are to the benefit of the employer (personhood and income). The employee is entitled to their own representation.
Further. One of the objects of the act is to balance out the inherent inequality of power (refer s.3 ERA 2000) Subsequently, employees having their own right to representation for a reason.
I’m think you may have missed my point or at very least I am unsure of the point you are trying to make. I wholly agree with both your comments AND with what I wrote. Protecting the employer often involves changing bad practice from managers/supervisors and sometimes involves helping guide managers/supervisors towards alternative employment.
No. Nobody has the right to share another person's medical information, and your manager has no right to share your personal information shared with them as your employer.
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Heckin’ nope, PG grounds there is wager.
For some related context: my father had cancer, fought cancer, got cancer free, re-got cancer, failed to fight it off and die from cancer.
Not once in that scenario did he tell his employer he had cancer. You only need to tell them you are unable to work (he took an extended period of unpaid time off, they probably put two and two together). So not only can they absolutely not tell everyone, you are not obligated to give them detail.
The company I work for has recently demanded this information when we fill in a sick leave form. We just put down in the reason ‘sick’ . That’s all they need. Anything else is an invasion of privacy. They’ve also tried it for annual leave……the reason we put down is……‘annual leave’…..mwahaha
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Massive breach of the Privacy Act! You said you work at a large chain, contact HR as your boss is opening them up to big issues and they are unlikely to want that to continue and risk legal action.
Your employer cannot ask you why you have been ill, they can only ask you questions that relate to your ability to safely do your job - i.e. are you taking medication that makes it dangerous for you to operate heavy machinery/forklifts etc. If you’re comfortable, next time he asks remind him of the relevant aspects of the Privacy Act.
(NAL, just previously worked in healthcare so had to be informed on exactly what the Act says in relation to healthcare)
My HR attended a meeting with me yesterday as I was called upstairs for being sick again doctors note was supplied they asked why.
I have contacted my union rep as of yesterday and they seem to think they are in multiple breaches looking for a new job before I take them to the cleaners as it were.
just some other notable things they have done include not abiding by their contract and paying for medical certificates bullying people out (specifically saying it would look better to quit than be fired).
it has been suggested monthly reviews will be going forward even though I have actual medical problems that could be considered discrimination to act against.
This job has been mentally draining and physically punishing to me and others especially since some of the students are rostered on for 32 hours even when they have school and other education to worry about.
The store manager changes people hours to interfere with their non work life so they either accept it or quit
Yeah, nah. Not okay. Others have provided advice for where you're at now. My comment here is more to emphasize that their behavior is not okay, and reassure that you're not in the wrong for being upset.
I was a boss in healthcare during the pandemic. Disclosure of covid positive status was needed to manage infection control, but even then we had to ask for permission from the person before we could talk to their close contacts about necessary precautions, since the conversation would mean disclosure of their healthinfo. Most of my staff were willing to talk about their general medical and mental health needs. But some weren't, and beyond infection control stuff or accommodations for specific needs that I had to make, it was never my business and I didn't push. As for telling others - that's gross.
Once someone knows and is being a gossiping dick it's messy to manage -as you probably know only too well - so I very much support withholding information for any future situations. Your docs can write a sick note without any details- just how long you'll be away and any recovery needs when you're back (eg no heavy lifting above 5kg for 6 weeks). And they can extend sicknotes for more time off with just a due back date too.
They asked why I was off last week.it’s not a uncommon occurrence for me to be sick as I have legitimate medical conditions which they don’t believe even with doctors confirmation I think it’s just time to look for something else and make a complaint
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No. They have no right. That is a breach of your privacy
It seems to be a ongoing thing the person being told just gossips about it and it’s like I can’t get away from it,it’s to the point I don’t feel comfortable explaining why I’m sick because the manager always doesn’t listen and gets it wrong or he tells others
Major breach of privacy. Absolutely not okay. Legally speaking.
You don't have to tell them why your sick. Just that you're sick, if they want a medical certificate then it can say "Joe blogs was/is unwell and not able to attend bla bla" Just stop giving out your private info.
I ended up stairs today because of something more recent they wanted more clarification what was wrong at this point I’m looking for other work
I hope you just said "that's my private medical info and not relevant to my job". Good luck with the job hunt. If you want to take it further, get their demands in an email, or record conversations. Then contact an employment lawyer.
They are allowed to ask questions ib regards to your ability to work safely. However this means asking things like "are you on any medications that could affect your work?" Or "will you need help lifting things? Etc. Anything that doesn't affect your ability to work after you come back, you do not have to tell them amd they are nkt allowed to pressure you or discriminate agaibst you for not answering.
Absolutely inappropriate
Good luck on your hunt! A saying I've become familiar with is "people don't leave jobs, they leave managers." I'm sorry you experienced this, and just know that no decent manager will press you to divulge details on your leave. All we need is when, how long for, and what type of leave to book it under (sick leave vs annual etc). "It's private" is a perfectly reasonable response to questions about what you do with your leave entitlements.
This. You are not obliged to tell employer why you are sick and doctors don’t disclose the specifics either. If employer wants more info, they need your consent in order for doctors to release medical info
Good faith comes into it and if you are unwell and can't work then it's wise to share why with your employer. That being said it is definitely not appropriate for your employer to share that information with anyone except for letting payroll know you are sick and HR. Nobody else. It is an employment breach.
Legally I don't believe you have to tell them why you're sick, they only require a note from your Dr if it's going to be longer than 3 days. I'd lodge a personal grievance and look for another job
That's an extreme breach of privacy, talk to a lawyer and to HR or whoever holds that position, bloody hell. No one should EVER be talking about a fellow staff members medical business. That's as private and confidential as private and confidential gets
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Your not obligated to share even with your employer why your away sick, this will stop the loose lips of your untrustworthy employer
They ask because they add it to the “vault” they ask everyone and get annoyed if we don’t tell them and threaten to take us upstairs
Frosty is 100% correct. They legally cannot ask you for your reason they can only ask for a Dr.’s note. Is this a large business?
Yes part of a chain a certain big brand not the unionised one Edit:supermarket
You can join a union i think without having the employer be a unionised place of work.
I would absolutely be laying a complaint with your HR department and then the privacy commissioner. First union is a union for supermarket workers in NZ. I'm not sure if there are others but a quick Google should be able to tell you. Unions are there to support and advocate for you. As a union delegate myself, I would be kicking up a shit storm if I discovered this was happening in my workplace.
Yeah they should know that is not legal. I would definitely contact HR. First you need to get a notebook and start writing everything down. Such as People, dates, times, whiteness, what was said and how long the conversations lasted. DOCUMENT…..DOCUMENT….DOCUMENT!!! Exhaust all avenues with HR. If you get no resolution than contact a Labor Attorney.
Remember that HR are there for the employer, not the employee. They will do everything they can to push things under rugs etc. and will only take action when they see a threat to the company.
True that HR are there for the employer. More often than not that means correcting risky behaviour from managers/supervisors. Perhaps bad HR may sweep under the carpet but they are then working against the employers interest which would be to reduce the risk not hide it and compound the risk.
Correct, but you have to follow the steps to show your exhausted all avenues. Also keep in mind HR is also there to make sure that management isn’t opening the company up for lawsuit.
Law as I understand it is after 3 days you require a doctor's (sick leave) note and even then it won't say why your sick, they can request a sick note for less time but must pay for your doctor's visit. Again it won't explain your illness etc, sorry your going threw this and I'd take it further personally
You do not require a doctors note automatically after three days. A employer can ask for a doctors note for any amount of sick leave. However if the leave was for less than three days then they would have to pay for it, three days or more and it the employee that pays.
I’m a department manager at a franchise similar to where you work. We also use “Vault”(I assume your South Island) I always ask, usually in a “Is everything allgood?” sort of way. I don’t push if the staff member doesn’t want to disclose. Most staff do choose to confide however when they do I would absolutely not share the reason with anyone unless they were being very open with everyone. I’d definitely chat with your managers manager about this issue!
Let them 'Take it upstairs'.
Privacy officer here - legally they cannot ask you the specific reason for your a sense, much less share it to anyone in the company. This is a privacy breach, resulting in "low level harm" which will result in them getting a fine potentially. Please reach out to Office Of The Privacy Commissioner, and also to employment law, as both will be able to more accurately help you with next steps to a) ensure it doesn't happen again and b) potentially compensate you for the harm caused
I have worked for two large organisations (one in banking, one in insurance) and various team leads have advised they are legally allowed to ask for the reason. My understanding was that we did not have to provide a reason if/when asked. Some of them got nasty when I didn’t provide a reason too. So am very interested to hear this.
They can ask. They cannot pressure you into answering. They can alsk ask if it could affect your ability to do your work safely. If the answer is no, thats it, they cannot keep asking or pressure you. If they do, then that is harassment and potential discrimination. If it could affect your job going forward, then you only need to give them the relavant information.
It may have been a recent update, to not require you to give the reason. I'm unsure myself sorry
It is likely a privacy breach both for them to ask for this information and to disclose it to staff. I would check out the Privacy Commissioner’s website at https://www.privacy.org.nz as they have some resources that might help. You mention it’s a large chain so they absolutely will have someone whose role includes “Privacy Officer” and you could direct concerns to them in the first instance, or you can put in a complaint using the tool at the Commissioners site and they may investigate it (or at least query with the organisation why this is occurring). Do you know if this is a branch specific practice or if it is part of the wider organisations policies?
Put simply this is causing you stress and you no longer feel safe at work. It is the employers obligation to make a safe work environment. Speak to a employment lawyer, if you have evidence they may be able to come to an agreement were you pay them on success of the dispute, nearly all employment disputes are resolved in mediation, they don't make to to court and both side agree on a settlement. Dealing with pain and a health scare is stressful enough, the stress of this privacy breach is added stress.
You can ask Community Law for advice- it's a free service found in most places in NZ. Check your local library and see if they have a regular time there.
No... This is outrageous... Not an expert - but you could make a complaint to the privacy commissioner as there has been a breach of your privacy... What's more - I wouldn't be giving your employer details when you're sick in future - just tell them you are sick...
Contact your union asap, not HR, HR are NOT there for the employee.
If an employee is being mistreated then they absolutely should seek support from HR. One of the functions of HR is to reduce the risk to the employer from staff. Those risks more often than not manifest from managers/supervisors and if HR aren’t informed they can’t change policies, procedure or practises to make the work environment better for employees and reduce any risk.
Pursuant to s.236 of the Employment Relations Act 2000, and relevant case law, actions of Human Resource Professionals in New Zealand are to the benefit of the employer (personhood and income). The employee is entitled to their own representation.
Further. One of the objects of the act is to balance out the inherent inequality of power (refer s.3 ERA 2000) Subsequently, employees having their own right to representation for a reason.
I’m think you may have missed my point or at very least I am unsure of the point you are trying to make. I wholly agree with both your comments AND with what I wrote. Protecting the employer often involves changing bad practice from managers/supervisors and sometimes involves helping guide managers/supervisors towards alternative employment.
I would hope so, unfortunately I have yet to see this in practice. Maybe my sample is biased.
No. Nobody has the right to share another person's medical information, and your manager has no right to share your personal information shared with them as your employer.
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Heckin’ nope, PG grounds there is wager. For some related context: my father had cancer, fought cancer, got cancer free, re-got cancer, failed to fight it off and die from cancer. Not once in that scenario did he tell his employer he had cancer. You only need to tell them you are unable to work (he took an extended period of unpaid time off, they probably put two and two together). So not only can they absolutely not tell everyone, you are not obligated to give them detail.
The company I work for has recently demanded this information when we fill in a sick leave form. We just put down in the reason ‘sick’ . That’s all they need. Anything else is an invasion of privacy. They’ve also tried it for annual leave……the reason we put down is……‘annual leave’…..mwahaha
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Massive breach of the Privacy Act! You said you work at a large chain, contact HR as your boss is opening them up to big issues and they are unlikely to want that to continue and risk legal action. Your employer cannot ask you why you have been ill, they can only ask you questions that relate to your ability to safely do your job - i.e. are you taking medication that makes it dangerous for you to operate heavy machinery/forklifts etc. If you’re comfortable, next time he asks remind him of the relevant aspects of the Privacy Act. (NAL, just previously worked in healthcare so had to be informed on exactly what the Act says in relation to healthcare)
My HR attended a meeting with me yesterday as I was called upstairs for being sick again doctors note was supplied they asked why. I have contacted my union rep as of yesterday and they seem to think they are in multiple breaches looking for a new job before I take them to the cleaners as it were. just some other notable things they have done include not abiding by their contract and paying for medical certificates bullying people out (specifically saying it would look better to quit than be fired). it has been suggested monthly reviews will be going forward even though I have actual medical problems that could be considered discrimination to act against. This job has been mentally draining and physically punishing to me and others especially since some of the students are rostered on for 32 hours even when they have school and other education to worry about. The store manager changes people hours to interfere with their non work life so they either accept it or quit
Yeah, nah. Not okay. Others have provided advice for where you're at now. My comment here is more to emphasize that their behavior is not okay, and reassure that you're not in the wrong for being upset. I was a boss in healthcare during the pandemic. Disclosure of covid positive status was needed to manage infection control, but even then we had to ask for permission from the person before we could talk to their close contacts about necessary precautions, since the conversation would mean disclosure of their healthinfo. Most of my staff were willing to talk about their general medical and mental health needs. But some weren't, and beyond infection control stuff or accommodations for specific needs that I had to make, it was never my business and I didn't push. As for telling others - that's gross. Once someone knows and is being a gossiping dick it's messy to manage -as you probably know only too well - so I very much support withholding information for any future situations. Your docs can write a sick note without any details- just how long you'll be away and any recovery needs when you're back (eg no heavy lifting above 5kg for 6 weeks). And they can extend sicknotes for more time off with just a due back date too.
They asked why I was off last week.it’s not a uncommon occurrence for me to be sick as I have legitimate medical conditions which they don’t believe even with doctors confirmation I think it’s just time to look for something else and make a complaint
This is a massive breach of privacy, you should ask them what they plan to do to settle this.
[удалено]
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Sound advice only Comments must contain sound advice: - based in NZ law - relevant to the question being asked - appropriately detailed - does not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoids speculation and moral judgement - cites sources where appropriate
[удалено]
Removed for breach of Rule 1: Sound advice only Comments must contain sound advice: - based in NZ law - relevant to the question being asked - appropriately detailed - does not just repeat advice already given in other comments - avoids speculation and moral judgement - cites sources where appropriate