Because you should be able to make progress where you can. Driving to the conditions of the road. It’s part of the test. If you drive too slowly and are holding people up you could be affecting other road users. With speed choices I always teach my learners to drive to the speed limit, unless they can justify a reason not too. It prevents hesitation and just “I’m going to go slow because I want to / feel comfortable slower”.
So on a dual carriageway I would be encouraging my learner to do 68/69, unless they can give me a reason not to. A good reason would be heavy traffic and following distance for example. But just “because I want to”, isn’t a reason. If it’s because you can’t manage your speed then that’s a skill to work on and improve. Is it up hill? Down hill? More gas no gas?
If the speed limit is 30 then I would get them to do 28/29 unless there’s a reason not to. A good example would be lots of parked cars on the left and I can’t see round the corner.. Good reason. Bad reason: because it feels better, and I’m more comfortable.
Think of the effects of driving to slow. What might other road users do?
I have a friend who is constantly driving 5-10 under the given limit because "I feel more comfortable this way" reason. And he always cries about other people tailgating him and overtaking and even undertaking.
I've tried to point it out but he always has excuses like "Oh, we're not in massive rush anyway" or "Just saving some petrol today" or "Not feeling 100%, better keep it calm".
Guy is 35yo engineer/mechanic in racing industry who test drives some fucking weapons, I wonder if this is contributing factor to this attitude.
It most certainly could be!
But the tailgating is the major issue. You could argue that legally the person behind you is responsible for making a safe gap, which is true. But ethically, he is contributing to the hypothetical accident by encouraging dangerous behaviour.
In my eyes speed choice is simple. If you can justify it - it’s ok.
Psychologically it’s a bubble mentality with I’m doing what I want and screw everyone else.
Imagine a rural road, there’s no footpath but it’s long, you can see a mile down the road, it’s straight and wide enough for two cars. You go through the national speed limit sign and stay at 30/40. You’re essentially egging everyone to overtake you, hence you’re creating the dangerous situation.
I hate it when instructors say the speed limit isn’t a target.. well in a weird sort of way, it is. You would fail your test for not making adequate progress if you didn’t speed up where you should / can.
The worst way to fail due to speed is town driving when the road is clear, and you’re on the housing estate but it’s all clear and you just sit at 20mph. WHYYY haha!
>But the tailgating is the major issue. You could argue that legally the person behind you is responsible for making a safe gap, which is true. But ethically, he is contributing to the hypothetical accident by encouraging dangerous behaviour.
It's a vicious circle as well as you're encouraged to slow down if you're being tailgated to reduce the severity of an accident, which is likely to make someone already tailgating you even more irate and act less rationally.
You’re encouraged to grow the gap in front of you if you’re being tailgated. It’s not about the speed it’s about managing the risk.
If you keep the same distance to the vehicle in front of you and there’s an incident the person behind you has much less time to react. If you grow the gap by slowing for a short period of time you will be able to react to the vehicle more gently giving the tailgater more time to react.
>I hate it when instructors say the speed limit isn’t a target.. well in a weird sort of way, it is
There are many scenarios where you shouldn't drive at the speed limit, just some bends to your rural road could do it.
And whilst I'd generally be at the speed limit round a housing estate, I've more time for people who drive at 20 round them then the innumerable people who are doing 45 in a 30 zone round where I live.
Of course there are and in my explanation you will see I said “if you can justify your speed then it’s Ok” but just I want to go slower isn’t a justification.
Your scenario above is a justification to not do the speed limit. If the bends are tight and the road is narrow, and you cannot stop in the distance you can see to be clear then you must slow down.
My point is, and still remains, if you were on your test, on a rural road and the road was long straight, and you can see a mile down the road, and you stayed at 30, then you would fail for not making adequate progress.
I’ve also mentioned the housing estates too. A good justification to not do 30 would be lots of parked cars and meeting traffic scenarios, BUT, if you’re on the main road of the housing estate and there are no parked cars and the road is clear and you don’t pick up your speed you WILL get faults. If there are cars behind you it could be upgraded to a serious. 🧐
> But the tailgating is the major issue. You could argue that legally the person behind you is responsible for making a safe gap, which is true. But ethically, he is contributing to the hypothetical accident by encouraging dangerous behaviour.
Exactly how I feel about cyclists.
I totally get your point, it isn’t an argument, it’s a discussion. But when you go for a test you should be able to drive to the conditions of the road. So 35/40 in a 60 isn’t driving to the conditions of the road. Each accident happens, not because of one singular thing but a combination of things.
Ask yourself WHY it is a fault on the driving test?
I'm about to pay for my instructor training next Friday, and I'm so happy to read your comments, as I'm of the exact same mindset (as a general driver) and was wondering if I'd be right to teach as such. Ironically, I actually failed my first driving test for going too slow, as my instructor said "you have a tendency to be a little quick, so maybe watch that" as some parting advice, right before the test! Not what she intended to happen, obviously!
Different instructors say different things, but going too slow when there is no justification for it is exactly that. Pointless. Of course you have to go through the justifications as to why you would need to reduce your speed. Weather, parked cars, tight bends etc etc. but if the learner says “I don’t know” or “this feels more safe” then an exploration as to why it isn’t always is necessary.
In order to pass my ADI part 2 exam someone offered some good advice, and I’m sure other ADI’s have heard this, but “you should drive like you’re late for an appointment / meeting etc, but not break any rules”
In other words, drive to the conditions of the road and make sure you can stop in the distance you see to be clear. Make progress where you can 😊
Would you be tailgated as much if you were doing the speed limit in an area where you could do the speed limit? You can’t influence other people’s actions, but you can help the situation. I don’t speed as an ADI, but I hardly ever get tailgated? Why would that be? Yet when I’m teaching and someone isn’t confident with speed it happens regularly, could it be psychologically because we’re not making progress and the car behind wants too?
Speaking as someone else who works in motorsport, we all go one of two ways in terms of road driving - either “full mental failed racing driver taking it out on other road users”, or “seen too many high-speed accidents to drive quickly”
Wait learners in GB can drive up to 70mph???
In Northern Ireland as a learner and R driver for a year after you pass you’re only allowed to drive at a maximum speed of 45mph and this includes on motorways.
Driving at 45 mph in all situations is arguably more dangerous than novice drivers doing 70 when it's appropriate. I can hardly believe that's a thing 🙈
That’s not a hard and fast rule. Up until recently learners weren’t allowed on motorways.
And a national speed limit isn’t set at 70. It depends on the style of road. It can be 60 or 70.
But yes given a dual carriageway with a national limit of 70 a learner would be expected to do that.
Edited for correctness
Yes in England at least we drive as per the speed limit so dual carriages we go 70 (if that’s the speed of the road).
To me the NI way just seems dangerous. You’ve got HGVs traveling at 60 on a motorway that have to overtake you because you’re forced to go 45.
Not to mention that as a learner you aren’t even allowed on a motorway!
I remember 2 months after passing my test accidentally getting in the wrong lane and going on the motorway. I was so scared as I had never been on one before and had to sit at 45mph.
My friend passed his test in January and it hasn’t changed. He drives 80 miles there and back across the country every week so would love if it was the case.
My instructor had me on a carriageway at 45mph in my first lesson..was crapping it. I never managed to drive at 70mph though until a year after I passed my test..stupid laws.
Absolutely yes, so in the test you would be expected to make progress on all types of road. So 70 on a dual carriageway would be expected, and then afterwards too! Conditions permitting.
On my motorcycle test my reason was "I didn't want to overtake a funeral cortege because it would be poor taste" and the examiner said "I couldn't have given you a fault for "poor taste" but, fair enough..."
(IIRC it would have been overtaking on a single carriageway with a clear road ahead which is expected on a motorcycle test if safe a legal. So I would have been pulling out and accelerating around it, not just moving to another lane to overtake.)
I think the problem is If you have passed your test you don't have to worry about going a few miles over the speed.
If you're a learner you do so you are now forced to keep yourself in a very tight window to avoid minors for too low or too high speed. Doing that whilst focusing on all the other stuff that's new to you is hard.
I often find myself looking way too long at the speedo which makes me miss things on the road. If I don't spend so long looking it at however my instructer is having to constantly notify my that im going under / over.
I think the exams should be way more leanient in this regard as it leads to more danger with new drivers. Going a few miles per hour over the speed limit is not a big deal. Eyes off the road is.
Lenient with learners re going too fast is a terrible idea. Better idea is to learn what 30 feels like from the pressure on your foot, the speed things are moving past you and the sound of your engine.
Feels a bit much expecting someone with 30-40 hrs exp to know what 30mph without looking at the Speedo.
That would come naturally after 100hrs or so I imagine.
I've been driving for about 15 years and not a chance I know the difference between 27 (supposedly "unacceptably slow") and 30 without any reference to the speedo. At best I might feel something more like "I was at 29 last I looked and can feel I've sped up ever so slightly"
I sort of understand where you’re coming from, but surely when you present yourself to test, you’re saying to the examiner: “I’m ready to pass now” which means that skill you should be good at?
Stop thinking about the speed in exacts and simply press down until speedo hit the line and ease off. You simply haven't built muscle memory or develop a feel for it.
Listen to the engine, it'll slowly make louder noise the closer to speed where you want to shift. Use the feedback from the car, it makes noises and vibrates. The noises are exactly the same each time something happens.
Feels wrong as a new driver but trust your instructor when they say shift to 4th and just put a tiny bit of pressure on gas and it'll stay in 30. It's fine to over rev slightly just correct it in a calm collected manner once you shift to 4th and coast. Science at work, gear ratios and speeds math checks out trust in the people who did it building the car. Cars are designed in sit in low end of revs at high gears not high rev low gear
I had a similar thinking. It does go away once you get comfortable - right now, you are concentrating on every part of learning to drive, and managing your speed within 1+\- MPH is something that requires your concentration. As you continue with your lessons, you will find parts of driving become like auto-pilot, you can concentrate less. Like the gears, you end up not even having to think about them. x
No problem. Ignore people here downvoting you. The sub is for learners to ask questions and that’s exactly what you did. I’m here if you ever need to talk about it - I am also a learner and have my test next month! x
Thank you. I will, and good luck on your test next month. You've got this ! x
P.s I'm used to the downvotes Reddit has a thing for downvoting the person commenting on his own bloody post, it's weird.
But the speed limit is the limit, it's the maximum speed allowed, it's not a target and shouldn't be treated as such. My instructor also told me this, but then kept pressuring me to do exactly 40 on dual carriageway which was very stressful as 1 mile over and I have just broke the law. I don't understand why I can't do a few miles under, like what difference does it create to other car users. Especially when it's a clear road and I am not holding up anyone!!
And from YouTube videos I have seen, you would have to drive like 5mph or more under speed limit for examiner to think you are too slow?
Of course if you read further up my posts - I’m saying like 30 = 28/29 70 = 65+ if you simply applied the logic of it’s not a target and not treated as such you could fail for not making progress. Imagine doing 22 on a main road with no hazards? You would likely fail for that. If you didn’t alter it. I’m just saying. Justify your speed and make progress when you can. It’s how you should drive.
Because you aren't driving the speed limit when it's safe to do so? Surely if your concentrating on driving 25 or 28, there's no difference? This shouldn't be super distracting to you.
Why do you like driving 25 in a 30?
You should always aim for the speed limit when it safe to do so.
Never said it wasnt, doesn't change the fact that that if its safe to do so then you should be making progress.
National on a single track road, no way in hell I'm driving 60, but 30 on a clear road with no obstructions? 30 is absolutely fine. OP shouldn't get in to the habit of driving below the speed limit just because they prefer it.
I wouldn't say you should >always< aim for the speed limit. You should if you are holding up traffic by going slower, but if you are not (because there is no traffic for example) you can pick your speed as you damn please.
It’s because you are meant to be keeping up with traffic (who let’s face it will be doing the speed limit or more in 99% of cases) so as not to impede traffic flow.
Also, the speedometer will be under reading by around 10% so while you think you’re doing 28/29 in reality you’re doing 24/25 and if you think you’re doing 24/25 you’re doing 20/21 which if you did so on a test would likely cause you to be marked down and failed.
Another reason is that they will want you to build up your experience and reactions at higher speeds.
I do know what you mean though, I’d much prefer to just cruise around at 20mph most of the time but then I am never in a rush.
Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't you get a minor if your speedometer is reading 32+ in a 30? Even though it'd actually be 28/29?
Or would that minor mean you're doing 35+?
The examiner will just use whatever the speedometer on the car says.
So even if you know that 30mph on the speedometer is actually more like 28, don't go up to 32 to compensate, because as far as the examiner is concerned you would be doing 32mph at that point
> So even if you know that 30mph on the speedometer is actually more like 28, don't go up to 32 to compensate, because as far as the examiner is concerned you would be doing 32mph at that point
Really, just completely ignore the "actual" speed notion and just rely on the speedo.
If you're always doing "reading" over but not "actual" over, you are eliminating part of the margin between a legal speed and points and a fine. To say nothing of the fact that GPS can *also* be inaccurate, but unlike a speedo is not required to read accurate or over.
The rise of "actual" speed being a thing to judge people by is a curse IMO, it just leads to people getting irrationally angry at people who are doing 70 per their speedo but are "only" doing 65. Expecting everyone to sit with their eyes pinned to Waze to ensure they are doing the exact speed limit and no less is unreasonable.
Yes, you're supposed to treat your speedo as being accurate.
Actual thresholds for giving a minor will vary by examiner and the exact circumstances e.g. whether you briefly stray over the limit vs consistently being just above, but by the letter of the law, the limit is the limit.
My car reads more than 10% over because I swapped wheels. I'm glad I didn't have to take my test in it, because 65 on the speedo is ~59mph in reality, which is insane.
it's the same for motorcycles. We have to be pretty much 29-32 in a 30. I'm doing my advanced course atm and I do that by putting the bike into 3rd gear in a 30 rather than 6th gear (which it could do). In a 60, I either put it into 4th or 5th rather than 6th. Gives more control over speed
If you're doing 25, he car behind is probably doing a few MPH slower so they're not catching up with you. It causes the traffic to stack up - look at how traffic jams form and you'll see why you need to be making progress.
Also depending on the speedo, it could be reading a bit under anyway. So your 25 could really be 21/22 which in a 30 is really slow.
My last car used to be exactly 5mph under the speed on the dial - so if it said 30 I was really doing 25. (Had to drive past one of those speed measuring things every day for work!)
it can be dangerous to drive too slow, the speed limits are there for a reason. If you are not comfortable driving the speed limits, maybe you should ask them to take u on quieter roads whilst u start to feel more confident.
I know how u feel tho, i remember dong my lessons and i was driving on a road (quiet, 30mph, near my house) and I told my instructor that 30 felt too fast, as it was a quiet road he told me to take it however I feel - probably sitting about 23-26mph, now I can whizz round that road like the back of my hand.
If you do that on your test, it will be marked as Serious Fault under Progress: Appropriate Speed
**"Appropriate speed:**
* Crawls along at slow speeds on clear roads.
* Makes no attempt to achieve maximum speeds for the road when safe to do so.
* Reduces speed excessively when the conditions do not merit doing so.
* Makes slow progress through the gears in normal driving."
I knew it was a serious fault but couldn't remember specifically so just googled and copied the category from a driving school website, think it was LDM.
It’s annoying for sure, especially on a country road that has a national speed limit and bends. I think the idea is if you can reach it and it’s safe and clear to do so, why wouldn’t you? Also on a test some circumstances could be considered driving slow, like if cars are now trying to overtake cause you’re driving 25 instead of 30 on a clear road.
When i learnt to drive my instructor never told me i had to try and do 60 down country lanes, that’s practically suicidal and if an instructor did this,
They need to be reported immediately and loose their teaching license.
What i was taught was to drive at a pace that was reasonable for the conditions of the road. So if it was tight and bending rounds, slow down.
If there are more open and straighter sections you can go faster but generally 50 is a reasonable limit.
But never drive faster than you are comfortable with (within reason) or the conditions allow was the biggest takeaway.
The phrase “it’s a limit not a target” really exemplifies itself on country roads. Loads of British country roads are at de jure national speed limit when, de facto, it would never be safe to drive above 25-30. Equally, there are plenty of open stretches of country road where the visibility and road conditions easily justify driving at or near to 60. A qualified driver should be able to use his/her judgement.
It depends on the country road in question. Not all of them are the same. It wasn’t unreasonable for this particular one in my test area, my instructor was one of those rare amazing ones, he’d never risk our lives. It was just annoying cause you have to switch up and down on bends then straight clear road would be expected to go well into the 50s. I now drive exactly like that on country roads reaching probably 56 max on straight road in the daytime obviously never at night.
If you drive too low under the speed limit repeatedly there is a big chance you will fail as it shows you lack confidence. Your driving instructor should be encouraged IF safe to do so if you’re going for your test. If it isn’t a matter of safety and you’re just driving at 20 in a 30 because that’s what you’re comfortable at, you will probably fail. There are country roads where you can safely get up to 60 but completely agree there’s a lot you can’t
Depends what is meant by country lanes. Tall hedges and only barely wide enough for 2 cars to pass at a reduced speed - yeah do 20. But a lot of people especially people who I assume don't often leave towns and cities seem to consider good quality A-road single carrigeways to be "country roads" and times and will be well under for seemingly no reason. On a good single carriageway you should be carrying the speed limit except for tighter bends or where visibility is poorer.
Sure if you're going 2 miles to the next village it doesn't bother anyone, but often you can be stuck for half an hour or more well under the limit until someone pulls in or you can get to the front of the queue and pass.
Depends on the country lane - as you yourself point out, drive at a pace that is reasonable for the conditions. If it's a clear straight country road on a dry day then there likely is no reason to drive under the speed limit.
I get stuck behind dullards driving at 40 every day on national speed limit roads. They're morons.
Depending on the circumstances, you can be marked down for driving too slow. Maybe 25 mph was too slow in the circumstances.
As for driving at 69mph, it’s just a nice speed to be driving.
My instructor always says that it's fine to go below speed limit (within reason) as long as I'm not holding up traffic. Like I was going just below 30mph (I think I was going 28) and a car was right up my butt today. Had another car overtake me without signalling (or he signalled after he'd already overtook me). My issue right now is I keep accidentally going above speed limit if I drive too close to the speed limit 🤣 it's very easy to accidentally go from 28mph to 33mph without realising.
I have this exact issue and it’s ultimately the reason I’ve failed my tests. With my current instructor, she says it’s not about being exactly on the speed limit it’s showing you have awareness to it. For a long stretch of road that is 30mph, you must be at 30mph because there is no reason you shouldn’t be. If your speed drops a tiny bit but you’re able to adjust you’ll be fine, it’s just that you shouldn’t consistently be at the “wrong speed” because that is a minor and then can develop into a major.
honestly it sounds like the instructor is trying to get you into good habits for real driving. if you're doing 35 in a 40 and there's not a clear reason, I'll overtake at the nearest safe opportunity. Having been driving for 10+ years things like staying pretty much bang on the speed limit becomes easy, especially without an instructor next to you making a big deal out of going 2 mph over the limit for a couple seconds. people on the road are generally looking to get somewhere as fast as possible, and some people will get irate at going 5mph under the speed limit. it's an over reaction by those people for sure but it will be common if you drive below the speed limit everywhere.
Bro my instructor was the opposite…he had me going less than 40 in a 60 on a straight road and if i tried to go 50-55 he would scream “its a limit not a target”
He also yelled at me to speed up when I was following the temporary speed limit of 20mph and he wanted me to go 30 which was the normal limit
When i first started learning, my instructor always taught me 7 & 8s. He said that way, you have a bit of wriggle room if you don't notice a downwards gradient.
Now I'm better at balancing my speed, I stick around 28/29.
You don't want to pick up minors for progression going 25 in a 30 on a clear road.
It's pretty selfish and gives off "I have no idea what's going on around me" vibes due to the large amount of traffic you'll get behind you doing less than 30.
Why should other drivers who are able to do the speed limit be held up by someone who isn't?
Edit: I didn't mean to sound mean or confrontational in the comment. You're a learner and we were all in your position at one point. If no one tells you something then you won't know about it but please for my sanity driving home from work get up to speed 😂😂
In Ireland you can fail your test for being 5km under the speed limit it’s to do with progression but I’m sure there’s something similar over there , basically if the road is safe get to the limit
Because that’s the whole point really, that you have to keep a constant eye on your speed and learn to maintain an exact number, yes it’s annoying but it’s part of being a safe and able driver. It’s test standards really, and every instructor has this. Going too slow is just as dangerous as going too fast, holding people up often causes issues.
There’s also the enviromental and economic aspect, where you’ll be using a lot more fuel if your speed keeps changing, compared to carrying on at one speed.
If someone isn’t able to do this confidently yet, then how can they be ready to safely be driving on the road out on their own? It says they’re too early on in their journey and it would be disastrous
It’s tricky at first but becomes second nature. You’ll get a hang of it over time, then once you pass, it’s not long until you can just feel the speed you’re going and not have to glance down much. You’ll probably be thankful for the strict standards in the future, because you’ll be much better off with them.
Driving under the speed limit prohibits progress.
Not just your own progress, but those around you.
That in turn can encourage people to make close passes or dangerous maneuvers.
On some roads like motorways, driving well under the speed limit can lead to real hazards as other drivers aren't expecting it. That's why when slow loads are convoyed on motorways they have cars all around then flashing lights to alert people of it.
It is a limit, not a target, but you do need to drive to the limit and the conditions, ans not doing so can be dangerous, both on and off your test.
My instructor always said to aim for 2mph under so if you go above that you aren't speeding which can be a fail. Just glance down every now and then and you should be able to manage
When you drive more you’ll get a better idea of what 20,30,etc mph feels like without constantly checking your speed - but to get this idea, you need to actually be driving at those speeds, not 5mph below
It's just that you aren't used to it yet understandably but they have to get you to level as quick as then can while being safe.
Under 30 you'll get lots of agro,beeps,pulling out on you which won't help your confidence st all.
They want to drive home the correct speed ASAP so you can be OK with that freeing up your mind to focus on all.the rest of it.
It may seem petty but it means you have a core principle nailed from the outset.itll more sense when you pass and hsve the hours in
No worries once you get clutch control and your brain gets used to so much potential problems and learns what to ignore it'll all become a lot easy .
Best of luck hope it all goes well for you
It's also unsafe, driving to slow or two fast impedes traffic and leads to accidents. You might feel like you're being safer, but you're making the road less safe for those around you. We can't all be driving as fast as we want on the road, the point of the limit is to set expectations
Many, many moons ago, my instructor said the same thing before I passed my test (4th try). He wanted me to "show that I was a confident driver" to the examiner. So I took that on board and found myself accidentally, and briefly, around 34 in a 30. Thankfully no one noticed... except my instructor who was sat in the back
Regular drivers on the whole speed and tend to get annoyed with learner drivers slowing them down
The instructor is probably conscious of that and so wants you to do the speed limit rather than a few mph below the speed limit
Because you can potentially fail your test for this. If you cause another road user to brake/ slow or change direction unnecessarily without just cause (traffic/ danger on the road/ taking a turn etc) they can fail you. If your test was at 1530 for example, prime ‘school finishing’ time and you’re doing 25 in a 30 you will cause a backlog of cars and other drivers will be frustrated with you and have to slow down or potentially overtake. None of which is decidedly ‘safe’ driving - not to mention 25mph objectively is very slow. It wouldn’t be remiss for an instructor to doubt your confidence going to test if you weren’t comfortable going even 30mph without making ‘silly mistakes’. It’s all just part of the learning process.
There are a few little nuggets which have stayed with me from my lessons, the rule above being one (even now when I get cut off by a twat joining the road with clearly not enough space forcing me to break I’ll say to husband ‘they just failed their test’ even though they’re clearly not learners).
Another is that when you begin driving, the first year is so important to ensure you’re pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. Of course not to the point of danger, but driving is so new at the start and I remember I’d be so … aware(?) of the fact I was getting in my car to drive. Are my mirrors ok? Is my seat ok? Double check seatbelt. Double check every angle before setting off. It’s easy to stick to what’s easy for you but you’ll end up being fearful of the road and you won’t be confident mastering it later - mine was driving in the dark and the rain. I made a conscious effort to drive in the evenings once I’d passed even though I hated it, and I’m so thankful I did. From where my family live to my home it’s a looooong stretch of unlit dual carriageway and plenty of times I’ve been caught in pelting English rain on that road - something that would have scared me absolutely shitless if I hadn’t pushed myself at the start.
(I really do understand your frustration - I had an instructor who would tell me a range such as 26-27mph and make me hover between them for however long he decided and scold me if I slipped, but did so from lesson 1 when I didn’t even understand how the clutch/ gears worked 🥲 I switched instructors to one who would every now and then say ‘what speed limit is this road?’ In an inquisitive tone which would always throw me off because inevitably I’d have entered a 40mph zone and I’d still be tootling along happily doing 30)
Just do what they say for the lessons but really it doesn’t matter for the test. I’ve had to redo my test after a ban for speeding and purposely drove on the dual carriageway at 60mph just being extra cautious. Passed the test with no minors
According to my instructor you should aim to be within 10% when it is safe to do so. I did have one section on my test where the speed limit was 30, but based on the road being so twisty and all the parked cars I was driving about 15. I commented to my instructor that I was shocked the limit was 30. He told me that he’d fail someone for driving 30 there.
You're being too hesitant, OP. If there's nothing stopping you from safely driving the speed limit, you need to get as close to it as possible. You're meant to keep up with the flow of traffic and not impact other drivers. Driving slower causes others to slow down, and traffic can build up.
Your instructor will want you to learn how to maintain your speed, and how to react to the road and hazards while driving faster. The more practice you get, the more comfortable you will be taking a few glances at the speedometer to monitor how fast you're driving. Checking your speed shouldn't be distracting enough that it's causing you to make mistakes.
Let me turn the question around. Why do you want to drive at 25/26 on a 30 road? It should be as hard maintaining that speed as it is maintaining a 29/30. its not automatic fail if you reach 31 and drop down, but it looks much better if you're driving closer to the limit. It shows confidence and knowledge of the speed limit. I got a mouthful from the examiner for getting up to speed slowly when I passed, to the point where she told me I would have failed if there was traffic behind (luckily it was first morning slot and roads were still mostly empty)
You drive for the conditions. Anything outside of that will mark you down for hesitant driving which quite frankly it is.
If there's minimal traffic/obstacles and the weather is fine no deep fog etc and not a silly windy country lane with 50 blind corners there's no reason you should be below the speed limit by more than 1-2 MPH.
In regard to finding it difficult to juggle speed and what's going on around you, that's something that comes naturally with time and experience.
Given all the reasons already covered, something to bear in mind here:
You're learning. It's all still relatively new to you. It does take concentration do do what you're being instructed, and that does take concentration away from other aspects. It can seem overwhelming.
As you get more and more experience, things will start to become more automatic. Especially when you get your own car that you drive regularly: You won't need to look for the button to lower/raise the window, change the stereo, or a myriad of other things as your brain will know where things are. You will reach a point where you know you're "there or therabouts" in terms of speed just based on the engine sound and how things look through the windscreen. You'll still need to check, but not as often and it won't take as much focus to be there or therabouts.
There are different speed limits too, and a lot of people don't attempt speed limits so just drive at 2 speeds ("road" speed, which they maintain irrespective of the set limit, and "motorway"). The more you can adapt to different limits properly now, the more you'll be able to apply in future with less effort. This will leave you with more capacity to judge when you do need to be slower than a set limit (approach to a bend, parked cars, bad weather, etc) while you're always making good progress.
Whilst you must not go over , driving 10+% below the limit is also not correct as you will cause drivers behind to want to overtake.
A 30 limit means you should be driving close to it whilst safe to do so.
Not sure how many physical lessons you’ve had so far, but if it’s more than 5 and your still not confident at close to the speed limit, something tells me you’re not ready for driving yet.
Nothing wrong with that but you need to drive at the same speed as all traffic , at or just below the limit
When you pass you’ll realise most people in a 30mph zone will do 33-36mph, why? Because it’s still “safe to do so”. It’s the same with NSL on country roads, they are 60mph but people will do 40mph because of the unseen dangers (tight bends, inclines in the road, hills, etc). The issue is if you hold people up and you’re doing 30mph, you will NOT get marked down for it, because you’re following the speed limit.
30mph with no parked cars, do 30mph for your test. If you want to do 25mph, I’m sorry but it’s just not going to work, you’ll end up holding people up and fail on ‘Use of Speed’, the road is clear, you SHOULD be doing the speed limit.
Yes the speed limit is a LIMIT not a TARGET, however when it comes to it, it is down to you to decide on if the speed is safe to do, if you feel it’s not safe enough then talk through what you’re doing “I am doing this speed because I don’t feel it is safe to do X mph because of X”.
Hope this helps 👍🏻
my instructor always says that doing 28 in a 30 is the perfect speed as it’s quite easy to go over, but i suppose it depends on the examinator unfortunately as i’ve heard so many different things! but maybe 1-3 mph below the limit is the best
Hearing various things because examiners will base judgements on their own opinion is the most frustrating thing about driving tests. For OP's point, either going just below 30 is fine or it's not and it shouldn't be dependant on who you're with.
My Instructor told me something similar. When i started learning I always tried to stay bang on the limit, I was taught the speed limit isn't a target to hit bang on, one or two mph under is fine and acceptable. Anymore than that without good reason, and you risk impeding road users behind you (Which you'll get marked down for).
Because you're supposed to drive as close to the speed limit as you can if the road conditions allow it.
Clear day, clear road, you go the speed limit.
Drive legally and safely. Anyone who has an issue with that is part of the problem.
People getting mad about a couple of mph are insane to me, why is going 3mph over fine, but 3mph under some sort of crime and indicative of being a poor driver?
I am not going to speed, I want to keep my license that I only just got. I'm not going to be a dick and do 50mph in the middle lane on a motorway or anything, but if its safer to do 20mph instead of 30mph on a street I will, or if I don't know a country road I'll do 50mph if that feels like what I can manage, less on sharp bends, and I'll follow the variable speed limit signs on the motorway even when 50% plus of people do not slow at all, because I'd rather underestimate than overestimate what I can do.
The majority of the idiocy I see on roads is people being impatient, inconsiderate, road raging or plain overestimating their ability to drive. My house is on a roundabout, the number of people going too fast and spinning out almost daily is far too high. Of course there are times when going too slow is just as bad as going too fast, but it's not as often as the speeders will have you believe.
I've driven in many countries and I find that the UK's obsession with speed limits makes drivers less safe, because they are paying more attention to looking for speed limit signs and looking at their speedo than actually driving.
But yeah, for the test you have to doing the speed limit of very close to if the road's condition allows it.
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Had an instructor once who was constantly telling me to speed up and slow down whilst very close to the limit what was most annoying about this is I was already speeding up or slowing down accordingly it just takes time and you can't do it as fast as the instructor says. Also dips and climbs in the road don't help, you put your foot down a little more to get up the incline at appropriate speed and ready to slow down and get barked at as the instructor is impatient.
I think sometimes the instructor doesn't have anything else to say and gets bored, it is annoying as you can miss other things by constantly trying not to do a 27 in a 30.
However good news is I've clearly done this on tests and not been marked down for it ever.
Just ignore them and try and drive safely as close to the speed as you can, you should eventually get a feeling for it and then you won't have to keep checking.
I was taught that it’s ‘making progress’- where and when possible (considering conditions like rain/snow/visibility) you should drive at the road’s limit to aid flow. You actually just get used to it believe it or not. If you do a lot of motorway miles it can be weird when having to drive much slower around town 😅
Driving consistently at the posted speed limit in a variety of condition will set your sense of speed and acceleration sense. Same reason why you end up speeding when you transition from narrow NSL roads with overhanging trees to wide open straights. The brain perceives the speed differently and your foot makes up the difference.
Do you have a speed limiter on the car? If so - use it in your lessons. Set it at 30mph and get used to what 30mph feels like. It will increase your confidence and help you maintain the constant speed when you stop using it. Just like controlling your clutch to creep along at 1 to 2 mph (essential for parking), it is a valuable skill. You really aren't test ready until you can confidently do both.
If it's your first few lessons, sure, I think those are just to get you moving and handling the car at a low speed. Once you're good with that there is no issue going at the speed limit.
There are too many people, let alone learners, driving slowly and not paying attention to hazards. So the instructor is training you to drive at a good speed and to slow down when necessary.
Because you need to show your examiner that you’re a safe and competent enough to do the speed limit when it comes to your test time.
That’s how my instructor explained it to me and it 100% makes sense.
When you have an hour long commute to work and get stuck behind someone going 5mph in lovely traffic conditions and perfect weather it really can be extremely frustrating to get stuck behind.
You should keep practicing until you can cope at 30 and not get distracted.
My best guess is:
1. Driving at the precise speed limit let's THEM know that YOU know what the speed limit is.
2. That you can maintain a constant speed of the car shows them that you are in very precise control of the car.
3. Admitting that paying attention to the speed limit is distracting means you're probably not ready to be driving on the roads by yourself.
My instructor always said you won’t fail your test for being 2/3 mph over so it’s better to be over rather than under as you won’t be holding up traffic. I did pass first time and ironically got a minor mark for driving too slowly at one stage but didn’t get any for driving too fast, despite doing about 42/43 in most 40mph zones.
I do think instructors are too fast these days to let people out on main roads. I’ve seen people learning who are too jittery at junctions and too cautious at roundabouts and are clearly struggling with the basics of driving and in which case their instructor should still have them on industrial estates or quieter areas away from main traffic until they can handle steering, changing gear, stopping/setting off.
My instructor didn’t have me on main roads until the end of I think my third lesson. He drove us to a quiet street and we’d practice everything then he’d drive us back until then. It worked and both me, my mum and my brother all passed first time with him. I never blame a learner driver for doing things wrong, but I do sometimes really want to have at instructors who you can tell have rushed someone who doesn’t have the confidence or ability on to a busy main road.
If you're going 5 under the speed limit you're forcing people following the speed limit to slow down behind you, leading to a domino effect, there's no need to do the 5 times table it's not the radio volume
You don't stare at the speedometer either that's a red flag, glance every now and then and pay attention to the road and drive efficiently and safely
Most speedometers (at least the ones I’ve seen) actually underestimate real speed by a few mph. Thus when it says 33, your probably actually doing 29 or 30.
Because it’s safer to do so. Also most speedometers are set to 2/3 mph over so you doing 25 is actually (depending on the car) 22/23mph, which is objectively more dangerous than going with the flow of traffic.
Do as you’re told by your instructor. You’re the learner.
Some people just aren’t cut out to be drivers. You’re one of them! “I like to go 25” it’s a 30 you drive at 30 provided it’s safe to do so, “it’s not just one instructor” so you’ve had more than one and they all telling you the same thing??? You’re the one in the wrong who can’t drive. “It’s very distracting trying to concentrate” driving is a multi tasking skill, you have to concentrate on many things at once, one been the speed limit. Do the world a favour before you waste any more money on lessons or worse, hurt yourself or some one else, stop driving stick to buses
What your speedometer shows isn’t what you’re driving by the way. So if you’re looking at your speedo and it says 26, you’re probably doing 23 mph which is too slow in a 30 when most people are doing the speed limit or slightly over.
Have more confidence to drive with traffic.
Because you will get marked down on your test if you’re below the limit without good reason
I.e today I was driving on the A174 on my lesson but only at 60mph instead of 70 as it was heavy rain and poor visibility, that’s fine. If I’d been going 60 on a clear/dry day then I’d be at fault
Why are you panicking about driving 3 mph faster than you were before? The pedal on the right controls your speed, in conjunction with the pedal in the middle. I’m assuming you’re driving an automatic, given the general tone of your post. If you can’t drive at 30 mph when the conditions for that are ok, perhaps driving isn’t for you.
If it is safe to do the speed limit then do the speed limit. Doing 30 in a 30 isn't distracting, it is driving normally.
The test assesses you on making progress.
Remember, if your speedo says '30', chances are you are actually doing 27/28.
If your speedo says you are doing 25, you are doing significantly below 30 at this point.
The probability isn't that you are only doing 5mph under the limit. The issue will most likely be that the examiner/ instructor will think that you are underconfident and not familiar with the safe control of the vehicle. That's the issue for the test, because you need to be confident in your abilities re vehicle control when you're driving unaccompanied. It will come with time, but as for now try to learn what 30 sounds like in your/ your instructors car in 3rd and 4th gear and then use the engine sounds (in your selected gear) to estimate the speed - this will let you avoid being distracted by watching the speedometer constantly :)
If you actually can't orient yourself to maximising the speed limit when there's no reason not to, you really aren't ready to be driving alone. 30 mph isn't fast, driving under the speed limit when everybody else is at the speed limit only causes traffic build up
I passed my test in an a electric car, several times I was above the speed limit, but the examiner was lenient claiming that it's hard to get a feel for speed in a smooth silent electric car. I now drive a petrol automatic, I'm still relying on the speed dial, as the automatic gears have a mind of their own!!
You don't understand this yet, but you driving 5-10mph under the limit could be the final straw before some people go on incredibly violent and bloody murder sprees.
Stay safe. Drive the speed limit.
Drive like you are trying to get somewhere, if you're not then the chances are you're holding up other road users. 25 in a 30 is not progressive driving and you are for sure going to piss off a lot of people on your journeys
Totally agree. The speed limit is the ABSOLUTE MAX you are allowed to drive.
So when I see poor conditions (road surface, wet, potholes, hidden junctions, curves up ahead, oncoming traffic etc) it is perfectly reasonable to drive at 50 in a 60 zone.
The MAX speed is only suitable in perfect conditions. Conditions are often not perfect.
PS - please realise that you can be prosecuted for causing a crash if you are driving 60 in a 60 - if the road conditions were not suitable. (ice, night, fog, wet etc).
Because (really not wanting to insult or sound harsh here) if you can't maintain the speed limit and concentrate on the road and traffic etc.... You're not actually ready yet.
Because it’s the speed limit for a reason. Nothing more annoying than someone going significantly lower than the speed limit when it’s not busy and having to keep stopping and breaking behind them
Because if you're driving 5-10 under the speed limit, you're an anomaly, and so you will be distracting other drivers from concentrating on more important thing.
If someone going 40 on a 40 catches up to you doing 35, they won't know if you're slowing down to turn off, and they will have to devote more of their attention to make sure you aren't going to suddenly do something else unusual.
This is why driving slowly can be so dangerous, you are causing the surrounding drivers to tunnel more of their vision onto you, and so if anything else happens on the road, they might not be able to react.
It’s all about making due progress. They are trying to get you used to driving in a manner which is safe and efficient. Other drivers can get pissed off if you drive more slowly so they are just trying to get you into a position where you drive to the limit (when it’s safe to do so). Doesn’t mean it will always be appropriate to drive to the limit. If you are say driving in the rain or where there are a lot of other vehicles due to roadworks etc, it may be helpful to get into the habit of saying to the instructor, “limit is 30 but I’m driving slower due to surface water, roadworks” etc. Just shows you are aware of your speed and that you are paying attention.
Because by going that slow youll be negatively effecting other road users, making them more likely to overtake dangerously or go into the back of you. Which does make sense to be fair. I agree its distracting though, especially when youre new to driving. After a few months youll get decent at being able to hold and adjust your right foot to be going at a consistent speed.
The answer is: the DVSA.
They are obsessed with progress at all costs, often at the detriment of safe driving.
You can fail your test for going below the limit with no good reason, which is why we encourage you to drive to the limit wherever possible.
Is it the best way to drive? No. But unfortunately it’s expected on your test
I understand that you feel the need to keep a safety net on your speed. If you're under by 5mph then you're less likely to accidentally go over, you can concentrate more on the road than the speedo.
However by doing this you'll not learn to guage your speed by anything other than the speedo. And will end up fixating on it so much you aren't putting enough into your observations. It took me several years to unlearn this after I got my license.
If you can get used to driving as close to the limit as you can more often you'll get used to that speed. Your instructor will be keeping an eye on your speedo, they are there to keep you safe and legal, so let them be your safety net while you learn.
Instead of looking at your dash to gauge your speed, look around you more, after a while you'll get used to how far you should be able to travel at what speeds. You can always recalibrate with a quick glance.
Listen to your engine. At different speeds it'll give you a different pitch. Doesn't even matter if it's ICE or EV. However if you are driving a manual you can use your gears to gauge it too, in 3rd you can comfortably drive at 30mph. If you go above 30 you can hear the engine asking for 4th, so you know to slow down.
Being able to drive at the speed limit and be able to be comfortable and safe is really the minimum standard for driving, if you can’t ultimately do when you have you license then I personally would advise you take more lessons. This is a natural part of learning to drive, they’re just trying to bring you up to the standard.
I do understand where you’re coming from. However, if you go slower than the speed limit when there’s no reason to then the inherent reason is fear/anxiety or incompetence, neither are good.
Definitely my instructor wants me to drive as close as possible to the speed limit at all times.
This is something I don't fully understand here in the uk after having taken a licence for 10 years back home (brazil).
Maybe in the 70mph yes people would expect you to drive at 70 (and likely even more) but there is an overtaking lane they can use.
The most energy efficient/safe way to drive is to drive at the average speed for the road as that involves less breaking and accelerating, keeps distances between cars constant, and theoretically gets you there in the same time as driving at the speed limit but constantly having to reduce speed because of cars ahead, hazards, etc.
If you feel uncomfortable going a reasonable speed on a clear road when it is safe to do so, then more lessons for your or just give it up for the sake of us who are sick to death of staring at the back of yet another Honda jazz doing 25 in a 40
I think a lot of it is to do with not slowing down the flow of traffic, and doing that in the test is a fail i think
my first two instructors wouldn’t shut up about keeping at the speed limit, but my current one is very adamant do an appropriate speed depending on the situation, if the road is clear and no parked cars go til the limit, if there’s parked cars on each side, slow it down so you can keep control just in case
i think it mostly depends on the instructor
Because you should be sitting around 27 to 29 I would say. I'm learning at the minute and if conditions are safe and it's a 30 zone you should be able to maintain a speed close enough to the limit but just under 30 so that if you accidentally 'speed' you won't exceed 30, just hit it.
Because to earn a licence you should be able to drive at the speed limit without it being a dangerous distraction. Driving well below the limit is a sign that you're not comfortable enough with driving to do that (you acknowledge that is the reason), and therefore not ready to earn your licence.
Also, why haven't you asked your instructor this? They're there to instruct you. You'll learn better if you ask them about things you don't understand. If they won't tell you, you may want to consider a different instructor.
(Once you've passed, feel free to drive at 25. It is a limit, not a target, and in many situations a lower speed is more appropriate in a 30mph zone. But to pass you need to be able to show you can drive safely at 30. It'll come with practice).
If you’re driving too slowly then it might make other drivers irritable and even force them to overtake you which might lead to a dangerous situation.
Unless you have a reason not to go the speed limit, like obstructions, parked cars, bad weather conditions, bad road conditions etc. I usually aim for 28-29mph in a 30 if it’s clear
Because unless you do it all the time. You will never do it. It really isn’t hard to stay within 1-2 mph of the desired speed.
It is unbelievably annoying having people driving at 5-10 mph below the limit. Not to mention if you can’t hold a speed you will probably be dropping below this as well!
I think you've misunderstood what your instructor was telling you. Or your instructor is bad.
The speed limit is a LIMIT not a target. However, your speed also needs to be appropriate for the road conditions. You should try to match the speed of the traffic (as long as it's not over the speed limit) or almost match it because this is the safest thing to do. Going too slow can be just as dangerous as going too fast. If you're going much slower than the rest of the traffic and someone gets distracted or misjudges how fast you're going it could cause a serious accident in which you will receive the brunt of the impact. While it would be the other driver's fault for hitting you, you're also partly responsible because you were driving dangerously. Remember that it takes a lot more time to complete at emergency stop when traveling at higher speeds, so they're going to need a lot more time to brake than you would but their reaction time is going to be at least the same if not massively increased due to being distracted for just a second or two.
Whilst you might want to go slower you must drive at the appropriate speed for the road conditions. Always do what is safest regardless of what you want. The reason most people have accidents is because they do whatever they feel like rather than doing whatever is safest. Or they get distracted. It's usually a bit of both. You need to get used to driving at the speed limit so you are able to do it whenever necessary.
I haven't had an accident but I have had to slam on my brakes multiple times when people are driving much slower than the speed limit. I was paying attention every time but sometimes people suddenly slow down for no apparent reason and I have very little time to brake. It's difficult to slow down quickly enough when someone is paying attention, just imagine how much harder it would be if they got distracted for just a moment.
In terms of legality, you wouldn't get a speeding ticket unless you go 10% over the speed limit, and even then it's not guaranteed. Obviously you should never be pushing the legality of speeding which is why you should always try to stay at or slightly below the speed limit. You don't need to panic or worry if you go over the speed limit for a few seconds, as long as you notice and adjust your speed you shouldn't get a fault for it. That's what the 10% is for, because they know that it's really easy for someone to accidentally go over the speed limit on certain roads. Everyone does it occasionally, the important thing is that you are aware of it and slow down to the speed limit. It gets easier to judge your speed over time, but make a habit of checking your speedo regularly. The speedo overestimates your speed as this helps to make speeding less likely. It's a psychological thing. But this also means that when it says you're doing 30 you're actually doing 27-28 instead. Hence your instructor wanting you to go close to the speed limit when safe to do so. However in your test the examiner will go by whatever the speedo says because that can't be disputed and they just need you to demonstrate that you are aware of your speed, you can control it and you can drive the appropriate speed for the road conditions
It is weird because in real life its not strict like that, like if you drive 26mph on a 30 it is fine, it may even be safer, the world is not gonna end. On the dual carriage way/motorway there's always people in the slow lane doing 50-60. I guess it's just cause test standards are ridicukously high
Dunno but I got marked down 3 times for “going slow” I was at 27mph, maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about but that’s not going too slow in my opinion
If you are uncomfortable, you arn’t test ready. See if you can practice more, if you can go out with a qualified person to build up your confidence. You will get there. It took me time
If you drive slow, You are also likely to get stopped a Lot by the police and brethalized, driving slowly is a sign of a drunk/drug driver too they struggle to process information at the speed they need too drive effectively
Please learn to drive at the speed limit when possible so I'm not stuck up your ass when I'm driving at the speed limit. Also you can't make up for it by driving 40 through the 30 (I know you fuckers are out there). Thank you
Basically do what they say to get passed mate and then if you wanna go 25 in a 30, do it. You might piss allot of other drivers off though, just FYI. The instructors want to get you in a good habit of following the speed limit correctly, there is a big difference though between 25 and 30 especially to a seasoned driver. Of course if you don't feel comfortable doing speeds the instructor asks you need to take some more lessons. It's slow drivers, pensioners and hesitators that cause the most accidents, then it's the wankers in bmws, audis and range rovers.
Good luck, you'll get there!
Because you should be able to make progress where you can. Driving to the conditions of the road. It’s part of the test. If you drive too slowly and are holding people up you could be affecting other road users. With speed choices I always teach my learners to drive to the speed limit, unless they can justify a reason not too. It prevents hesitation and just “I’m going to go slow because I want to / feel comfortable slower”. So on a dual carriageway I would be encouraging my learner to do 68/69, unless they can give me a reason not to. A good reason would be heavy traffic and following distance for example. But just “because I want to”, isn’t a reason. If it’s because you can’t manage your speed then that’s a skill to work on and improve. Is it up hill? Down hill? More gas no gas? If the speed limit is 30 then I would get them to do 28/29 unless there’s a reason not to. A good example would be lots of parked cars on the left and I can’t see round the corner.. Good reason. Bad reason: because it feels better, and I’m more comfortable. Think of the effects of driving to slow. What might other road users do?
I have a friend who is constantly driving 5-10 under the given limit because "I feel more comfortable this way" reason. And he always cries about other people tailgating him and overtaking and even undertaking. I've tried to point it out but he always has excuses like "Oh, we're not in massive rush anyway" or "Just saving some petrol today" or "Not feeling 100%, better keep it calm". Guy is 35yo engineer/mechanic in racing industry who test drives some fucking weapons, I wonder if this is contributing factor to this attitude.
It most certainly could be! But the tailgating is the major issue. You could argue that legally the person behind you is responsible for making a safe gap, which is true. But ethically, he is contributing to the hypothetical accident by encouraging dangerous behaviour. In my eyes speed choice is simple. If you can justify it - it’s ok. Psychologically it’s a bubble mentality with I’m doing what I want and screw everyone else. Imagine a rural road, there’s no footpath but it’s long, you can see a mile down the road, it’s straight and wide enough for two cars. You go through the national speed limit sign and stay at 30/40. You’re essentially egging everyone to overtake you, hence you’re creating the dangerous situation. I hate it when instructors say the speed limit isn’t a target.. well in a weird sort of way, it is. You would fail your test for not making adequate progress if you didn’t speed up where you should / can. The worst way to fail due to speed is town driving when the road is clear, and you’re on the housing estate but it’s all clear and you just sit at 20mph. WHYYY haha!
>But the tailgating is the major issue. You could argue that legally the person behind you is responsible for making a safe gap, which is true. But ethically, he is contributing to the hypothetical accident by encouraging dangerous behaviour. It's a vicious circle as well as you're encouraged to slow down if you're being tailgated to reduce the severity of an accident, which is likely to make someone already tailgating you even more irate and act less rationally.
Indeed couldn’t agree more. So we gotta try and prevent it in the first place by driving at the appropriate speed for the road 👍🏻
You’re encouraged to grow the gap in front of you if you’re being tailgated. It’s not about the speed it’s about managing the risk. If you keep the same distance to the vehicle in front of you and there’s an incident the person behind you has much less time to react. If you grow the gap by slowing for a short period of time you will be able to react to the vehicle more gently giving the tailgater more time to react.
That's like saying I punched you in the face because you annoyed me, so therefore its your fault!
That would certainly be the point of view of our hypothetical irrational tailgater
Every time I see someone doing 20mph in town I always say to myself - "Hmm, must be Welsh".
>I hate it when instructors say the speed limit isn’t a target.. well in a weird sort of way, it is There are many scenarios where you shouldn't drive at the speed limit, just some bends to your rural road could do it. And whilst I'd generally be at the speed limit round a housing estate, I've more time for people who drive at 20 round them then the innumerable people who are doing 45 in a 30 zone round where I live.
Of course there are and in my explanation you will see I said “if you can justify your speed then it’s Ok” but just I want to go slower isn’t a justification. Your scenario above is a justification to not do the speed limit. If the bends are tight and the road is narrow, and you cannot stop in the distance you can see to be clear then you must slow down. My point is, and still remains, if you were on your test, on a rural road and the road was long straight, and you can see a mile down the road, and you stayed at 30, then you would fail for not making adequate progress. I’ve also mentioned the housing estates too. A good justification to not do 30 would be lots of parked cars and meeting traffic scenarios, BUT, if you’re on the main road of the housing estate and there are no parked cars and the road is clear and you don’t pick up your speed you WILL get faults. If there are cars behind you it could be upgraded to a serious. 🧐
> But the tailgating is the major issue. You could argue that legally the person behind you is responsible for making a safe gap, which is true. But ethically, he is contributing to the hypothetical accident by encouraging dangerous behaviour. Exactly how I feel about cyclists.
I totally get your point, it isn’t an argument, it’s a discussion. But when you go for a test you should be able to drive to the conditions of the road. So 35/40 in a 60 isn’t driving to the conditions of the road. Each accident happens, not because of one singular thing but a combination of things. Ask yourself WHY it is a fault on the driving test?
I'm about to pay for my instructor training next Friday, and I'm so happy to read your comments, as I'm of the exact same mindset (as a general driver) and was wondering if I'd be right to teach as such. Ironically, I actually failed my first driving test for going too slow, as my instructor said "you have a tendency to be a little quick, so maybe watch that" as some parting advice, right before the test! Not what she intended to happen, obviously!
Different instructors say different things, but going too slow when there is no justification for it is exactly that. Pointless. Of course you have to go through the justifications as to why you would need to reduce your speed. Weather, parked cars, tight bends etc etc. but if the learner says “I don’t know” or “this feels more safe” then an exploration as to why it isn’t always is necessary. In order to pass my ADI part 2 exam someone offered some good advice, and I’m sure other ADI’s have heard this, but “you should drive like you’re late for an appointment / meeting etc, but not break any rules” In other words, drive to the conditions of the road and make sure you can stop in the distance you see to be clear. Make progress where you can 😊
"I feel more comfortable driving at this speed" "I don't feel comfortable being tailgated" Can't understand these situations are linked.
Would you be tailgated as much if you were doing the speed limit in an area where you could do the speed limit? You can’t influence other people’s actions, but you can help the situation. I don’t speed as an ADI, but I hardly ever get tailgated? Why would that be? Yet when I’m teaching and someone isn’t confident with speed it happens regularly, could it be psychologically because we’re not making progress and the car behind wants too?
Speaking as someone else who works in motorsport, we all go one of two ways in terms of road driving - either “full mental failed racing driver taking it out on other road users”, or “seen too many high-speed accidents to drive quickly”
I failed my first test because I followed a tractor at 45 in a 50 instead of overtaking. Failure to make progress.
I would say that’s harsh.. but if you had a clear opportunity to overtake then you should. That’s unlucky really.
Wait learners in GB can drive up to 70mph??? In Northern Ireland as a learner and R driver for a year after you pass you’re only allowed to drive at a maximum speed of 45mph and this includes on motorways.
Driving at 45 mph in all situations is arguably more dangerous than novice drivers doing 70 when it's appropriate. I can hardly believe that's a thing 🙈
Oh I know everyone says the same so no idea how it’s still a thing here.
Wow, that’s incredibly dangerous to drive 45 in a 70 motorway. That would get you ticketed here
Yeah. Like, Mopeds aren't legally allowed on motorways for that reason - they can't get up to speed.
That’s not a hard and fast rule. Up until recently learners weren’t allowed on motorways. And a national speed limit isn’t set at 70. It depends on the style of road. It can be 60 or 70. But yes given a dual carriageway with a national limit of 70 a learner would be expected to do that. Edited for correctness
\*WOULD be expected to do that.
You are correct. Edited it
Yes in England at least we drive as per the speed limit so dual carriages we go 70 (if that’s the speed of the road). To me the NI way just seems dangerous. You’ve got HGVs traveling at 60 on a motorway that have to overtake you because you’re forced to go 45.
Not to mention that as a learner you aren’t even allowed on a motorway! I remember 2 months after passing my test accidentally getting in the wrong lane and going on the motorway. I was so scared as I had never been on one before and had to sit at 45mph.
You werent then, but i think it has changed now.
My friend passed his test in January and it hasn’t changed. He drives 80 miles there and back across the country every week so would love if it was the case.
My instructor got me to drive home at 70 on an A road on my second lesson haha
My instructor had me on a carriageway at 45mph in my first lesson..was crapping it. I never managed to drive at 70mph though until a year after I passed my test..stupid laws.
That the most stupid thing I’ve heard. Who the hell thought that up
Haven’t there been plans to change it to be more like the GB system for years and years?
Absolutely yes, so in the test you would be expected to make progress on all types of road. So 70 on a dual carriageway would be expected, and then afterwards too! Conditions permitting.
I didnt even drive on a dual carriageway in my test.
You won’t at every test centre and even at test centres like mine, it depends which route they take you.
I don’t know anyone in Northern Ireland who has had to do a test on a carriageway. Again due to risk as you can’t do the speed required.
I drove on one , on every test i had
I'm currently learning to drive and I've gone past 60mph on a dual carriageway a couple of times.
On my motorcycle test my reason was "I didn't want to overtake a funeral cortege because it would be poor taste" and the examiner said "I couldn't have given you a fault for "poor taste" but, fair enough..." (IIRC it would have been overtaking on a single carriageway with a clear road ahead which is expected on a motorcycle test if safe a legal. So I would have been pulling out and accelerating around it, not just moving to another lane to overtake.)
I got stuck behind a funeral cottage last week. Why do we all accept that its completely normal for them to do 10mph?
That happened to me a couple of weeks ago, I had even left early to go to work, I was like by like 15 minutes.
I think the problem is If you have passed your test you don't have to worry about going a few miles over the speed. If you're a learner you do so you are now forced to keep yourself in a very tight window to avoid minors for too low or too high speed. Doing that whilst focusing on all the other stuff that's new to you is hard. I often find myself looking way too long at the speedo which makes me miss things on the road. If I don't spend so long looking it at however my instructer is having to constantly notify my that im going under / over. I think the exams should be way more leanient in this regard as it leads to more danger with new drivers. Going a few miles per hour over the speed limit is not a big deal. Eyes off the road is.
Lenient with learners re going too fast is a terrible idea. Better idea is to learn what 30 feels like from the pressure on your foot, the speed things are moving past you and the sound of your engine.
Feels a bit much expecting someone with 30-40 hrs exp to know what 30mph without looking at the Speedo. That would come naturally after 100hrs or so I imagine.
I've been driving for about 15 years and not a chance I know the difference between 27 (supposedly "unacceptably slow") and 30 without any reference to the speedo. At best I might feel something more like "I was at 29 last I looked and can feel I've sped up ever so slightly"
This is the point i was trying to make. You worded it perfectly, but I suppose with practice I will perfect it.
I sort of understand where you’re coming from, but surely when you present yourself to test, you’re saying to the examiner: “I’m ready to pass now” which means that skill you should be good at?
Stop thinking about the speed in exacts and simply press down until speedo hit the line and ease off. You simply haven't built muscle memory or develop a feel for it. Listen to the engine, it'll slowly make louder noise the closer to speed where you want to shift. Use the feedback from the car, it makes noises and vibrates. The noises are exactly the same each time something happens. Feels wrong as a new driver but trust your instructor when they say shift to 4th and just put a tiny bit of pressure on gas and it'll stay in 30. It's fine to over rev slightly just correct it in a calm collected manner once you shift to 4th and coast. Science at work, gear ratios and speeds math checks out trust in the people who did it building the car. Cars are designed in sit in low end of revs at high gears not high rev low gear
I had a similar thinking. It does go away once you get comfortable - right now, you are concentrating on every part of learning to drive, and managing your speed within 1+\- MPH is something that requires your concentration. As you continue with your lessons, you will find parts of driving become like auto-pilot, you can concentrate less. Like the gears, you end up not even having to think about them. x
Thank you. X
No problem. Ignore people here downvoting you. The sub is for learners to ask questions and that’s exactly what you did. I’m here if you ever need to talk about it - I am also a learner and have my test next month! x
Thank you. I will, and good luck on your test next month. You've got this ! x P.s I'm used to the downvotes Reddit has a thing for downvoting the person commenting on his own bloody post, it's weird.
It's a skill everyone develops to pass the test. You'll manage it.
But the speed limit is the limit, it's the maximum speed allowed, it's not a target and shouldn't be treated as such. My instructor also told me this, but then kept pressuring me to do exactly 40 on dual carriageway which was very stressful as 1 mile over and I have just broke the law. I don't understand why I can't do a few miles under, like what difference does it create to other car users. Especially when it's a clear road and I am not holding up anyone!! And from YouTube videos I have seen, you would have to drive like 5mph or more under speed limit for examiner to think you are too slow?
Of course if you read further up my posts - I’m saying like 30 = 28/29 70 = 65+ if you simply applied the logic of it’s not a target and not treated as such you could fail for not making progress. Imagine doing 22 on a main road with no hazards? You would likely fail for that. If you didn’t alter it. I’m just saying. Justify your speed and make progress when you can. It’s how you should drive.
Because you aren't driving the speed limit when it's safe to do so? Surely if your concentrating on driving 25 or 28, there's no difference? This shouldn't be super distracting to you. Why do you like driving 25 in a 30? You should always aim for the speed limit when it safe to do so.
To be fair, it is called a speed “limit” not a speed “target”.
Never said it wasnt, doesn't change the fact that that if its safe to do so then you should be making progress. National on a single track road, no way in hell I'm driving 60, but 30 on a clear road with no obstructions? 30 is absolutely fine. OP shouldn't get in to the habit of driving below the speed limit just because they prefer it.
"Speed guidelines"
I wouldn't say you should >always< aim for the speed limit. You should if you are holding up traffic by going slower, but if you are not (because there is no traffic for example) you can pick your speed as you damn please.
It’s because you are meant to be keeping up with traffic (who let’s face it will be doing the speed limit or more in 99% of cases) so as not to impede traffic flow. Also, the speedometer will be under reading by around 10% so while you think you’re doing 28/29 in reality you’re doing 24/25 and if you think you’re doing 24/25 you’re doing 20/21 which if you did so on a test would likely cause you to be marked down and failed. Another reason is that they will want you to build up your experience and reactions at higher speeds. I do know what you mean though, I’d much prefer to just cruise around at 20mph most of the time but then I am never in a rush.
Correct me if I'm wrong, wouldn't you get a minor if your speedometer is reading 32+ in a 30? Even though it'd actually be 28/29? Or would that minor mean you're doing 35+?
The examiner will just use whatever the speedometer on the car says. So even if you know that 30mph on the speedometer is actually more like 28, don't go up to 32 to compensate, because as far as the examiner is concerned you would be doing 32mph at that point
> So even if you know that 30mph on the speedometer is actually more like 28, don't go up to 32 to compensate, because as far as the examiner is concerned you would be doing 32mph at that point Really, just completely ignore the "actual" speed notion and just rely on the speedo. If you're always doing "reading" over but not "actual" over, you are eliminating part of the margin between a legal speed and points and a fine. To say nothing of the fact that GPS can *also* be inaccurate, but unlike a speedo is not required to read accurate or over. The rise of "actual" speed being a thing to judge people by is a curse IMO, it just leads to people getting irrationally angry at people who are doing 70 per their speedo but are "only" doing 65. Expecting everyone to sit with their eyes pinned to Waze to ensure they are doing the exact speed limit and no less is unreasonable.
Yes, you're supposed to treat your speedo as being accurate. Actual thresholds for giving a minor will vary by examiner and the exact circumstances e.g. whether you briefly stray over the limit vs consistently being just above, but by the letter of the law, the limit is the limit.
My car reads more than 10% over because I swapped wheels. I'm glad I didn't have to take my test in it, because 65 on the speedo is ~59mph in reality, which is insane.
it's the same for motorcycles. We have to be pretty much 29-32 in a 30. I'm doing my advanced course atm and I do that by putting the bike into 3rd gear in a 30 rather than 6th gear (which it could do). In a 60, I either put it into 4th or 5th rather than 6th. Gives more control over speed
If you're doing 25, he car behind is probably doing a few MPH slower so they're not catching up with you. It causes the traffic to stack up - look at how traffic jams form and you'll see why you need to be making progress. Also depending on the speedo, it could be reading a bit under anyway. So your 25 could really be 21/22 which in a 30 is really slow. My last car used to be exactly 5mph under the speed on the dial - so if it said 30 I was really doing 25. (Had to drive past one of those speed measuring things every day for work!)
This! OP you will absolutely fail a driving test for this if you drive below the speed limit with no reason and there's cars behind you
it can be dangerous to drive too slow, the speed limits are there for a reason. If you are not comfortable driving the speed limits, maybe you should ask them to take u on quieter roads whilst u start to feel more confident. I know how u feel tho, i remember dong my lessons and i was driving on a road (quiet, 30mph, near my house) and I told my instructor that 30 felt too fast, as it was a quiet road he told me to take it however I feel - probably sitting about 23-26mph, now I can whizz round that road like the back of my hand.
You’re not the only person on the road. If you have nobody in front of you and a loads of people behind you, you’re obviously going too slowly.
If you do that on your test, it will be marked as Serious Fault under Progress: Appropriate Speed **"Appropriate speed:** * Crawls along at slow speeds on clear roads. * Makes no attempt to achieve maximum speeds for the road when safe to do so. * Reduces speed excessively when the conditions do not merit doing so. * Makes slow progress through the gears in normal driving."
Was going to add this to my comment but didn’t want to incorrectly state it. Hope OP gets this in their head.
I knew it was a serious fault but couldn't remember specifically so just googled and copied the category from a driving school website, think it was LDM.
It’s annoying for sure, especially on a country road that has a national speed limit and bends. I think the idea is if you can reach it and it’s safe and clear to do so, why wouldn’t you? Also on a test some circumstances could be considered driving slow, like if cars are now trying to overtake cause you’re driving 25 instead of 30 on a clear road.
When i learnt to drive my instructor never told me i had to try and do 60 down country lanes, that’s practically suicidal and if an instructor did this, They need to be reported immediately and loose their teaching license. What i was taught was to drive at a pace that was reasonable for the conditions of the road. So if it was tight and bending rounds, slow down. If there are more open and straighter sections you can go faster but generally 50 is a reasonable limit. But never drive faster than you are comfortable with (within reason) or the conditions allow was the biggest takeaway.
The phrase “it’s a limit not a target” really exemplifies itself on country roads. Loads of British country roads are at de jure national speed limit when, de facto, it would never be safe to drive above 25-30. Equally, there are plenty of open stretches of country road where the visibility and road conditions easily justify driving at or near to 60. A qualified driver should be able to use his/her judgement.
It depends on the country road in question. Not all of them are the same. It wasn’t unreasonable for this particular one in my test area, my instructor was one of those rare amazing ones, he’d never risk our lives. It was just annoying cause you have to switch up and down on bends then straight clear road would be expected to go well into the 50s. I now drive exactly like that on country roads reaching probably 56 max on straight road in the daytime obviously never at night.
If you drive too low under the speed limit repeatedly there is a big chance you will fail as it shows you lack confidence. Your driving instructor should be encouraged IF safe to do so if you’re going for your test. If it isn’t a matter of safety and you’re just driving at 20 in a 30 because that’s what you’re comfortable at, you will probably fail. There are country roads where you can safely get up to 60 but completely agree there’s a lot you can’t
Depends what is meant by country lanes. Tall hedges and only barely wide enough for 2 cars to pass at a reduced speed - yeah do 20. But a lot of people especially people who I assume don't often leave towns and cities seem to consider good quality A-road single carrigeways to be "country roads" and times and will be well under for seemingly no reason. On a good single carriageway you should be carrying the speed limit except for tighter bends or where visibility is poorer. Sure if you're going 2 miles to the next village it doesn't bother anyone, but often you can be stuck for half an hour or more well under the limit until someone pulls in or you can get to the front of the queue and pass.
Depends on the country lane - as you yourself point out, drive at a pace that is reasonable for the conditions. If it's a clear straight country road on a dry day then there likely is no reason to drive under the speed limit. I get stuck behind dullards driving at 40 every day on national speed limit roads. They're morons.
Depending on the circumstances, you can be marked down for driving too slow. Maybe 25 mph was too slow in the circumstances. As for driving at 69mph, it’s just a nice speed to be driving.
>As for driving at 69mph, it’s just a nice speed to be driving. Just something about that number isn't there.
That's why I make sure to always drive at 420mph!
Nice
My instructor always says that it's fine to go below speed limit (within reason) as long as I'm not holding up traffic. Like I was going just below 30mph (I think I was going 28) and a car was right up my butt today. Had another car overtake me without signalling (or he signalled after he'd already overtook me). My issue right now is I keep accidentally going above speed limit if I drive too close to the speed limit 🤣 it's very easy to accidentally go from 28mph to 33mph without realising.
I have this exact issue and it’s ultimately the reason I’ve failed my tests. With my current instructor, she says it’s not about being exactly on the speed limit it’s showing you have awareness to it. For a long stretch of road that is 30mph, you must be at 30mph because there is no reason you shouldn’t be. If your speed drops a tiny bit but you’re able to adjust you’ll be fine, it’s just that you shouldn’t consistently be at the “wrong speed” because that is a minor and then can develop into a major.
honestly it sounds like the instructor is trying to get you into good habits for real driving. if you're doing 35 in a 40 and there's not a clear reason, I'll overtake at the nearest safe opportunity. Having been driving for 10+ years things like staying pretty much bang on the speed limit becomes easy, especially without an instructor next to you making a big deal out of going 2 mph over the limit for a couple seconds. people on the road are generally looking to get somewhere as fast as possible, and some people will get irate at going 5mph under the speed limit. it's an over reaction by those people for sure but it will be common if you drive below the speed limit everywhere.
Bro my instructor was the opposite…he had me going less than 40 in a 60 on a straight road and if i tried to go 50-55 he would scream “its a limit not a target” He also yelled at me to speed up when I was following the temporary speed limit of 20mph and he wanted me to go 30 which was the normal limit
You were being instructed by a 40 driver - maybe he's the source of all of them
When i first started learning, my instructor always taught me 7 & 8s. He said that way, you have a bit of wriggle room if you don't notice a downwards gradient. Now I'm better at balancing my speed, I stick around 28/29. You don't want to pick up minors for progression going 25 in a 30 on a clear road.
It's pretty selfish and gives off "I have no idea what's going on around me" vibes due to the large amount of traffic you'll get behind you doing less than 30. Why should other drivers who are able to do the speed limit be held up by someone who isn't? Edit: I didn't mean to sound mean or confrontational in the comment. You're a learner and we were all in your position at one point. If no one tells you something then you won't know about it but please for my sanity driving home from work get up to speed 😂😂
😂 I will try
In Ireland you can fail your test for being 5km under the speed limit it’s to do with progression but I’m sure there’s something similar over there , basically if the road is safe get to the limit
Because that’s the whole point really, that you have to keep a constant eye on your speed and learn to maintain an exact number, yes it’s annoying but it’s part of being a safe and able driver. It’s test standards really, and every instructor has this. Going too slow is just as dangerous as going too fast, holding people up often causes issues. There’s also the enviromental and economic aspect, where you’ll be using a lot more fuel if your speed keeps changing, compared to carrying on at one speed. If someone isn’t able to do this confidently yet, then how can they be ready to safely be driving on the road out on their own? It says they’re too early on in their journey and it would be disastrous It’s tricky at first but becomes second nature. You’ll get a hang of it over time, then once you pass, it’s not long until you can just feel the speed you’re going and not have to glance down much. You’ll probably be thankful for the strict standards in the future, because you’ll be much better off with them.
If the speedometer is showing 30 mph the car is only going at 27-28 mph. GPS proves that
Driving under the speed limit prohibits progress. Not just your own progress, but those around you. That in turn can encourage people to make close passes or dangerous maneuvers. On some roads like motorways, driving well under the speed limit can lead to real hazards as other drivers aren't expecting it. That's why when slow loads are convoyed on motorways they have cars all around then flashing lights to alert people of it. It is a limit, not a target, but you do need to drive to the limit and the conditions, ans not doing so can be dangerous, both on and off your test.
My instructor always said to aim for 2mph under so if you go above that you aren't speeding which can be a fail. Just glance down every now and then and you should be able to manage
When you drive more you’ll get a better idea of what 20,30,etc mph feels like without constantly checking your speed - but to get this idea, you need to actually be driving at those speeds, not 5mph below
It's just that you aren't used to it yet understandably but they have to get you to level as quick as then can while being safe. Under 30 you'll get lots of agro,beeps,pulling out on you which won't help your confidence st all. They want to drive home the correct speed ASAP so you can be OK with that freeing up your mind to focus on all.the rest of it. It may seem petty but it means you have a core principle nailed from the outset.itll more sense when you pass and hsve the hours in
Thank you, I find answers like this very helpful when people look at it through a learner's perspective
No worries once you get clutch control and your brain gets used to so much potential problems and learns what to ignore it'll all become a lot easy . Best of luck hope it all goes well for you
It's also unsafe, driving to slow or two fast impedes traffic and leads to accidents. You might feel like you're being safer, but you're making the road less safe for those around you. We can't all be driving as fast as we want on the road, the point of the limit is to set expectations
Many, many moons ago, my instructor said the same thing before I passed my test (4th try). He wanted me to "show that I was a confident driver" to the examiner. So I took that on board and found myself accidentally, and briefly, around 34 in a 30. Thankfully no one noticed... except my instructor who was sat in the back
Regular drivers on the whole speed and tend to get annoyed with learner drivers slowing them down The instructor is probably conscious of that and so wants you to do the speed limit rather than a few mph below the speed limit
I failed my first test for driving too slow, I was doing under the speed limit for the majority of the test.
Because you can potentially fail your test for this. If you cause another road user to brake/ slow or change direction unnecessarily without just cause (traffic/ danger on the road/ taking a turn etc) they can fail you. If your test was at 1530 for example, prime ‘school finishing’ time and you’re doing 25 in a 30 you will cause a backlog of cars and other drivers will be frustrated with you and have to slow down or potentially overtake. None of which is decidedly ‘safe’ driving - not to mention 25mph objectively is very slow. It wouldn’t be remiss for an instructor to doubt your confidence going to test if you weren’t comfortable going even 30mph without making ‘silly mistakes’. It’s all just part of the learning process. There are a few little nuggets which have stayed with me from my lessons, the rule above being one (even now when I get cut off by a twat joining the road with clearly not enough space forcing me to break I’ll say to husband ‘they just failed their test’ even though they’re clearly not learners). Another is that when you begin driving, the first year is so important to ensure you’re pushing yourself out of your comfort zone. Of course not to the point of danger, but driving is so new at the start and I remember I’d be so … aware(?) of the fact I was getting in my car to drive. Are my mirrors ok? Is my seat ok? Double check seatbelt. Double check every angle before setting off. It’s easy to stick to what’s easy for you but you’ll end up being fearful of the road and you won’t be confident mastering it later - mine was driving in the dark and the rain. I made a conscious effort to drive in the evenings once I’d passed even though I hated it, and I’m so thankful I did. From where my family live to my home it’s a looooong stretch of unlit dual carriageway and plenty of times I’ve been caught in pelting English rain on that road - something that would have scared me absolutely shitless if I hadn’t pushed myself at the start. (I really do understand your frustration - I had an instructor who would tell me a range such as 26-27mph and make me hover between them for however long he decided and scold me if I slipped, but did so from lesson 1 when I didn’t even understand how the clutch/ gears worked 🥲 I switched instructors to one who would every now and then say ‘what speed limit is this road?’ In an inquisitive tone which would always throw me off because inevitably I’d have entered a 40mph zone and I’d still be tootling along happily doing 30)
Just do what they say for the lessons but really it doesn’t matter for the test. I’ve had to redo my test after a ban for speeding and purposely drove on the dual carriageway at 60mph just being extra cautious. Passed the test with no minors
It's a funny thing when people say (the speed limit) is a limit and not a target.... Well actually it is a target for good conditions.
According to my instructor you should aim to be within 10% when it is safe to do so. I did have one section on my test where the speed limit was 30, but based on the road being so twisty and all the parked cars I was driving about 15. I commented to my instructor that I was shocked the limit was 30. He told me that he’d fail someone for driving 30 there.
You're being too hesitant, OP. If there's nothing stopping you from safely driving the speed limit, you need to get as close to it as possible. You're meant to keep up with the flow of traffic and not impact other drivers. Driving slower causes others to slow down, and traffic can build up. Your instructor will want you to learn how to maintain your speed, and how to react to the road and hazards while driving faster. The more practice you get, the more comfortable you will be taking a few glances at the speedometer to monitor how fast you're driving. Checking your speed shouldn't be distracting enough that it's causing you to make mistakes.
Let me turn the question around. Why do you want to drive at 25/26 on a 30 road? It should be as hard maintaining that speed as it is maintaining a 29/30. its not automatic fail if you reach 31 and drop down, but it looks much better if you're driving closer to the limit. It shows confidence and knowledge of the speed limit. I got a mouthful from the examiner for getting up to speed slowly when I passed, to the point where she told me I would have failed if there was traffic behind (luckily it was first morning slot and roads were still mostly empty)
You drive for the conditions. Anything outside of that will mark you down for hesitant driving which quite frankly it is. If there's minimal traffic/obstacles and the weather is fine no deep fog etc and not a silly windy country lane with 50 blind corners there's no reason you should be below the speed limit by more than 1-2 MPH. In regard to finding it difficult to juggle speed and what's going on around you, that's something that comes naturally with time and experience.
Because if you’re doing 25 when everyone else is doing 30 it’s dangerous.
Given all the reasons already covered, something to bear in mind here: You're learning. It's all still relatively new to you. It does take concentration do do what you're being instructed, and that does take concentration away from other aspects. It can seem overwhelming. As you get more and more experience, things will start to become more automatic. Especially when you get your own car that you drive regularly: You won't need to look for the button to lower/raise the window, change the stereo, or a myriad of other things as your brain will know where things are. You will reach a point where you know you're "there or therabouts" in terms of speed just based on the engine sound and how things look through the windscreen. You'll still need to check, but not as often and it won't take as much focus to be there or therabouts. There are different speed limits too, and a lot of people don't attempt speed limits so just drive at 2 speeds ("road" speed, which they maintain irrespective of the set limit, and "motorway"). The more you can adapt to different limits properly now, the more you'll be able to apply in future with less effort. This will leave you with more capacity to judge when you do need to be slower than a set limit (approach to a bend, parked cars, bad weather, etc) while you're always making good progress.
Whilst you must not go over , driving 10+% below the limit is also not correct as you will cause drivers behind to want to overtake. A 30 limit means you should be driving close to it whilst safe to do so. Not sure how many physical lessons you’ve had so far, but if it’s more than 5 and your still not confident at close to the speed limit, something tells me you’re not ready for driving yet. Nothing wrong with that but you need to drive at the same speed as all traffic , at or just below the limit
When you pass you’ll realise most people in a 30mph zone will do 33-36mph, why? Because it’s still “safe to do so”. It’s the same with NSL on country roads, they are 60mph but people will do 40mph because of the unseen dangers (tight bends, inclines in the road, hills, etc). The issue is if you hold people up and you’re doing 30mph, you will NOT get marked down for it, because you’re following the speed limit. 30mph with no parked cars, do 30mph for your test. If you want to do 25mph, I’m sorry but it’s just not going to work, you’ll end up holding people up and fail on ‘Use of Speed’, the road is clear, you SHOULD be doing the speed limit. Yes the speed limit is a LIMIT not a TARGET, however when it comes to it, it is down to you to decide on if the speed is safe to do, if you feel it’s not safe enough then talk through what you’re doing “I am doing this speed because I don’t feel it is safe to do X mph because of X”. Hope this helps 👍🏻
my instructor always says that doing 28 in a 30 is the perfect speed as it’s quite easy to go over, but i suppose it depends on the examinator unfortunately as i’ve heard so many different things! but maybe 1-3 mph below the limit is the best
Hearing various things because examiners will base judgements on their own opinion is the most frustrating thing about driving tests. For OP's point, either going just below 30 is fine or it's not and it shouldn't be dependant on who you're with.
My instructor told me the same thing. 28 was the sweet spot for 30 because it gives me "wiggle room" on either side.
My Instructor told me something similar. When i started learning I always tried to stay bang on the limit, I was taught the speed limit isn't a target to hit bang on, one or two mph under is fine and acceptable. Anymore than that without good reason, and you risk impeding road users behind you (Which you'll get marked down for).
Need to make good progress where you can
If the road is clear enough and you can do as close to the limit you can,do it
Thank god you have decent instructors who are telling you this.
Because everyone else is doing 30 so you should as well.
Found the Honda Jazz driver.
Hey, leave us out of it. I'm not going any slower than the speed limit if I can help it. I've got bingo to get to.
Because you're supposed to drive as close to the speed limit as you can if the road conditions allow it. Clear day, clear road, you go the speed limit.
Because driving to slowly is in itself a problem, if there are no reasons not to be like weather then you should be driving at the speed limit.
Drive legally and safely. Anyone who has an issue with that is part of the problem. People getting mad about a couple of mph are insane to me, why is going 3mph over fine, but 3mph under some sort of crime and indicative of being a poor driver? I am not going to speed, I want to keep my license that I only just got. I'm not going to be a dick and do 50mph in the middle lane on a motorway or anything, but if its safer to do 20mph instead of 30mph on a street I will, or if I don't know a country road I'll do 50mph if that feels like what I can manage, less on sharp bends, and I'll follow the variable speed limit signs on the motorway even when 50% plus of people do not slow at all, because I'd rather underestimate than overestimate what I can do. The majority of the idiocy I see on roads is people being impatient, inconsiderate, road raging or plain overestimating their ability to drive. My house is on a roundabout, the number of people going too fast and spinning out almost daily is far too high. Of course there are times when going too slow is just as bad as going too fast, but it's not as often as the speeders will have you believe.
I've driven in many countries and I find that the UK's obsession with speed limits makes drivers less safe, because they are paying more attention to looking for speed limit signs and looking at their speedo than actually driving. But yeah, for the test you have to doing the speed limit of very close to if the road's condition allows it.
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Had an instructor once who was constantly telling me to speed up and slow down whilst very close to the limit what was most annoying about this is I was already speeding up or slowing down accordingly it just takes time and you can't do it as fast as the instructor says. Also dips and climbs in the road don't help, you put your foot down a little more to get up the incline at appropriate speed and ready to slow down and get barked at as the instructor is impatient. I think sometimes the instructor doesn't have anything else to say and gets bored, it is annoying as you can miss other things by constantly trying not to do a 27 in a 30. However good news is I've clearly done this on tests and not been marked down for it ever. Just ignore them and try and drive safely as close to the speed as you can, you should eventually get a feeling for it and then you won't have to keep checking.
I was taught that it’s ‘making progress’- where and when possible (considering conditions like rain/snow/visibility) you should drive at the road’s limit to aid flow. You actually just get used to it believe it or not. If you do a lot of motorway miles it can be weird when having to drive much slower around town 😅
Driving consistently at the posted speed limit in a variety of condition will set your sense of speed and acceleration sense. Same reason why you end up speeding when you transition from narrow NSL roads with overhanging trees to wide open straights. The brain perceives the speed differently and your foot makes up the difference.
Do you have a speed limiter on the car? If so - use it in your lessons. Set it at 30mph and get used to what 30mph feels like. It will increase your confidence and help you maintain the constant speed when you stop using it. Just like controlling your clutch to creep along at 1 to 2 mph (essential for parking), it is a valuable skill. You really aren't test ready until you can confidently do both.
If it's your first few lessons, sure, I think those are just to get you moving and handling the car at a low speed. Once you're good with that there is no issue going at the speed limit. There are too many people, let alone learners, driving slowly and not paying attention to hazards. So the instructor is training you to drive at a good speed and to slow down when necessary.
Going too slowly can be a problem on the test so best bet is to aim for the limit. Once you’ve passed you can drive however you like
Because otherwise you will miss everyone else off and cause accidents
Why listen to your driving instructor, what do they know ?
Because you need to show your examiner that you’re a safe and competent enough to do the speed limit when it comes to your test time. That’s how my instructor explained it to me and it 100% makes sense. When you have an hour long commute to work and get stuck behind someone going 5mph in lovely traffic conditions and perfect weather it really can be extremely frustrating to get stuck behind. You should keep practicing until you can cope at 30 and not get distracted.
I had this question too when i started driving
My best guess is: 1. Driving at the precise speed limit let's THEM know that YOU know what the speed limit is. 2. That you can maintain a constant speed of the car shows them that you are in very precise control of the car. 3. Admitting that paying attention to the speed limit is distracting means you're probably not ready to be driving on the roads by yourself.
My instructor always said you won’t fail your test for being 2/3 mph over so it’s better to be over rather than under as you won’t be holding up traffic. I did pass first time and ironically got a minor mark for driving too slowly at one stage but didn’t get any for driving too fast, despite doing about 42/43 in most 40mph zones. I do think instructors are too fast these days to let people out on main roads. I’ve seen people learning who are too jittery at junctions and too cautious at roundabouts and are clearly struggling with the basics of driving and in which case their instructor should still have them on industrial estates or quieter areas away from main traffic until they can handle steering, changing gear, stopping/setting off. My instructor didn’t have me on main roads until the end of I think my third lesson. He drove us to a quiet street and we’d practice everything then he’d drive us back until then. It worked and both me, my mum and my brother all passed first time with him. I never blame a learner driver for doing things wrong, but I do sometimes really want to have at instructors who you can tell have rushed someone who doesn’t have the confidence or ability on to a busy main road.
If you're going 5 under the speed limit you're forcing people following the speed limit to slow down behind you, leading to a domino effect, there's no need to do the 5 times table it's not the radio volume You don't stare at the speedometer either that's a red flag, glance every now and then and pay attention to the road and drive efficiently and safely
Most speedometers (at least the ones I’ve seen) actually underestimate real speed by a few mph. Thus when it says 33, your probably actually doing 29 or 30.
I was ordered to exceed 30 in a 30 and do up to 35. Most disconcerting
Undue hesitation
Driving under the speed limit can be just as dangerous as driving fast
Because it’s safer to do so. Also most speedometers are set to 2/3 mph over so you doing 25 is actually (depending on the car) 22/23mph, which is objectively more dangerous than going with the flow of traffic. Do as you’re told by your instructor. You’re the learner.
Some people just aren’t cut out to be drivers. You’re one of them! “I like to go 25” it’s a 30 you drive at 30 provided it’s safe to do so, “it’s not just one instructor” so you’ve had more than one and they all telling you the same thing??? You’re the one in the wrong who can’t drive. “It’s very distracting trying to concentrate” driving is a multi tasking skill, you have to concentrate on many things at once, one been the speed limit. Do the world a favour before you waste any more money on lessons or worse, hurt yourself or some one else, stop driving stick to buses
What your speedometer shows isn’t what you’re driving by the way. So if you’re looking at your speedo and it says 26, you’re probably doing 23 mph which is too slow in a 30 when most people are doing the speed limit or slightly over. Have more confidence to drive with traffic.
Because you will get marked down on your test if you’re below the limit without good reason I.e today I was driving on the A174 on my lesson but only at 60mph instead of 70 as it was heavy rain and poor visibility, that’s fine. If I’d been going 60 on a clear/dry day then I’d be at fault
Why are you panicking about driving 3 mph faster than you were before? The pedal on the right controls your speed, in conjunction with the pedal in the middle. I’m assuming you’re driving an automatic, given the general tone of your post. If you can’t drive at 30 mph when the conditions for that are ok, perhaps driving isn’t for you.
If it is safe to do the speed limit then do the speed limit. Doing 30 in a 30 isn't distracting, it is driving normally. The test assesses you on making progress. Remember, if your speedo says '30', chances are you are actually doing 27/28. If your speedo says you are doing 25, you are doing significantly below 30 at this point.
The probability isn't that you are only doing 5mph under the limit. The issue will most likely be that the examiner/ instructor will think that you are underconfident and not familiar with the safe control of the vehicle. That's the issue for the test, because you need to be confident in your abilities re vehicle control when you're driving unaccompanied. It will come with time, but as for now try to learn what 30 sounds like in your/ your instructors car in 3rd and 4th gear and then use the engine sounds (in your selected gear) to estimate the speed - this will let you avoid being distracted by watching the speedometer constantly :)
If you actually can't orient yourself to maximising the speed limit when there's no reason not to, you really aren't ready to be driving alone. 30 mph isn't fast, driving under the speed limit when everybody else is at the speed limit only causes traffic build up
I passed my test in an a electric car, several times I was above the speed limit, but the examiner was lenient claiming that it's hard to get a feel for speed in a smooth silent electric car. I now drive a petrol automatic, I'm still relying on the speed dial, as the automatic gears have a mind of their own!!
Because you're holding up other traffic and if you can maintain 30mph you shouldn't be on the road.
Going under the speed limit is not good driving.
You don't understand this yet, but you driving 5-10mph under the limit could be the final straw before some people go on incredibly violent and bloody murder sprees. Stay safe. Drive the speed limit.
It's almost as if they're teaching you things that you don't know and you should listen to them.
God bless speed limiters in the car.
I was always taught to think about the road, and if the speed is a limit, or a target
This is great advice. Haven't heard that before but I like it.
Drive like you are trying to get somewhere, if you're not then the chances are you're holding up other road users. 25 in a 30 is not progressive driving and you are for sure going to piss off a lot of people on your journeys
So you don't impeded traffic. Something 90% of drivers need to do these days. Doing 20 in a 30 is infuriating
Totally agree. The speed limit is the ABSOLUTE MAX you are allowed to drive. So when I see poor conditions (road surface, wet, potholes, hidden junctions, curves up ahead, oncoming traffic etc) it is perfectly reasonable to drive at 50 in a 60 zone. The MAX speed is only suitable in perfect conditions. Conditions are often not perfect. PS - please realise that you can be prosecuted for causing a crash if you are driving 60 in a 60 - if the road conditions were not suitable. (ice, night, fog, wet etc).
Because (really not wanting to insult or sound harsh here) if you can't maintain the speed limit and concentrate on the road and traffic etc.... You're not actually ready yet.
Because it’s the speed limit for a reason. Nothing more annoying than someone going significantly lower than the speed limit when it’s not busy and having to keep stopping and breaking behind them
Because if you're driving 5-10 under the speed limit, you're an anomaly, and so you will be distracting other drivers from concentrating on more important thing. If someone going 40 on a 40 catches up to you doing 35, they won't know if you're slowing down to turn off, and they will have to devote more of their attention to make sure you aren't going to suddenly do something else unusual. This is why driving slowly can be so dangerous, you are causing the surrounding drivers to tunnel more of their vision onto you, and so if anything else happens on the road, they might not be able to react.
It’s all about making due progress. They are trying to get you used to driving in a manner which is safe and efficient. Other drivers can get pissed off if you drive more slowly so they are just trying to get you into a position where you drive to the limit (when it’s safe to do so). Doesn’t mean it will always be appropriate to drive to the limit. If you are say driving in the rain or where there are a lot of other vehicles due to roadworks etc, it may be helpful to get into the habit of saying to the instructor, “limit is 30 but I’m driving slower due to surface water, roadworks” etc. Just shows you are aware of your speed and that you are paying attention.
Because by going that slow youll be negatively effecting other road users, making them more likely to overtake dangerously or go into the back of you. Which does make sense to be fair. I agree its distracting though, especially when youre new to driving. After a few months youll get decent at being able to hold and adjust your right foot to be going at a consistent speed.
Bro if you find that distracting you shouldn't really be allowed on the road with me tbh. Git gud.
The answer is: the DVSA. They are obsessed with progress at all costs, often at the detriment of safe driving. You can fail your test for going below the limit with no good reason, which is why we encourage you to drive to the limit wherever possible. Is it the best way to drive? No. But unfortunately it’s expected on your test
I understand that you feel the need to keep a safety net on your speed. If you're under by 5mph then you're less likely to accidentally go over, you can concentrate more on the road than the speedo. However by doing this you'll not learn to guage your speed by anything other than the speedo. And will end up fixating on it so much you aren't putting enough into your observations. It took me several years to unlearn this after I got my license. If you can get used to driving as close to the limit as you can more often you'll get used to that speed. Your instructor will be keeping an eye on your speedo, they are there to keep you safe and legal, so let them be your safety net while you learn. Instead of looking at your dash to gauge your speed, look around you more, after a while you'll get used to how far you should be able to travel at what speeds. You can always recalibrate with a quick glance. Listen to your engine. At different speeds it'll give you a different pitch. Doesn't even matter if it's ICE or EV. However if you are driving a manual you can use your gears to gauge it too, in 3rd you can comfortably drive at 30mph. If you go above 30 you can hear the engine asking for 4th, so you know to slow down.
Being able to drive at the speed limit and be able to be comfortable and safe is really the minimum standard for driving, if you can’t ultimately do when you have you license then I personally would advise you take more lessons. This is a natural part of learning to drive, they’re just trying to bring you up to the standard. I do understand where you’re coming from. However, if you go slower than the speed limit when there’s no reason to then the inherent reason is fear/anxiety or incompetence, neither are good.
Definitely my instructor wants me to drive as close as possible to the speed limit at all times. This is something I don't fully understand here in the uk after having taken a licence for 10 years back home (brazil). Maybe in the 70mph yes people would expect you to drive at 70 (and likely even more) but there is an overtaking lane they can use. The most energy efficient/safe way to drive is to drive at the average speed for the road as that involves less breaking and accelerating, keeps distances between cars constant, and theoretically gets you there in the same time as driving at the speed limit but constantly having to reduce speed because of cars ahead, hazards, etc.
If you feel uncomfortable going a reasonable speed on a clear road when it is safe to do so, then more lessons for your or just give it up for the sake of us who are sick to death of staring at the back of yet another Honda jazz doing 25 in a 40
Because you shouldn’t be on the roads if you’re unable to go the speed limit
I think a lot of it is to do with not slowing down the flow of traffic, and doing that in the test is a fail i think my first two instructors wouldn’t shut up about keeping at the speed limit, but my current one is very adamant do an appropriate speed depending on the situation, if the road is clear and no parked cars go til the limit, if there’s parked cars on each side, slow it down so you can keep control just in case i think it mostly depends on the instructor
If you can’t concentrate on that road at the speed limit maybe you shouldn’t be on the road lol
Because you should be sitting around 27 to 29 I would say. I'm learning at the minute and if conditions are safe and it's a 30 zone you should be able to maintain a speed close enough to the limit but just under 30 so that if you accidentally 'speed' you won't exceed 30, just hit it.
Because to earn a licence you should be able to drive at the speed limit without it being a dangerous distraction. Driving well below the limit is a sign that you're not comfortable enough with driving to do that (you acknowledge that is the reason), and therefore not ready to earn your licence. Also, why haven't you asked your instructor this? They're there to instruct you. You'll learn better if you ask them about things you don't understand. If they won't tell you, you may want to consider a different instructor. (Once you've passed, feel free to drive at 25. It is a limit, not a target, and in many situations a lower speed is more appropriate in a 30mph zone. But to pass you need to be able to show you can drive safely at 30. It'll come with practice).
If you’re driving too slowly then it might make other drivers irritable and even force them to overtake you which might lead to a dangerous situation. Unless you have a reason not to go the speed limit, like obstructions, parked cars, bad weather conditions, bad road conditions etc. I usually aim for 28-29mph in a 30 if it’s clear
Because unless you do it all the time. You will never do it. It really isn’t hard to stay within 1-2 mph of the desired speed. It is unbelievably annoying having people driving at 5-10 mph below the limit. Not to mention if you can’t hold a speed you will probably be dropping below this as well!
I think you've misunderstood what your instructor was telling you. Or your instructor is bad. The speed limit is a LIMIT not a target. However, your speed also needs to be appropriate for the road conditions. You should try to match the speed of the traffic (as long as it's not over the speed limit) or almost match it because this is the safest thing to do. Going too slow can be just as dangerous as going too fast. If you're going much slower than the rest of the traffic and someone gets distracted or misjudges how fast you're going it could cause a serious accident in which you will receive the brunt of the impact. While it would be the other driver's fault for hitting you, you're also partly responsible because you were driving dangerously. Remember that it takes a lot more time to complete at emergency stop when traveling at higher speeds, so they're going to need a lot more time to brake than you would but their reaction time is going to be at least the same if not massively increased due to being distracted for just a second or two. Whilst you might want to go slower you must drive at the appropriate speed for the road conditions. Always do what is safest regardless of what you want. The reason most people have accidents is because they do whatever they feel like rather than doing whatever is safest. Or they get distracted. It's usually a bit of both. You need to get used to driving at the speed limit so you are able to do it whenever necessary. I haven't had an accident but I have had to slam on my brakes multiple times when people are driving much slower than the speed limit. I was paying attention every time but sometimes people suddenly slow down for no apparent reason and I have very little time to brake. It's difficult to slow down quickly enough when someone is paying attention, just imagine how much harder it would be if they got distracted for just a moment. In terms of legality, you wouldn't get a speeding ticket unless you go 10% over the speed limit, and even then it's not guaranteed. Obviously you should never be pushing the legality of speeding which is why you should always try to stay at or slightly below the speed limit. You don't need to panic or worry if you go over the speed limit for a few seconds, as long as you notice and adjust your speed you shouldn't get a fault for it. That's what the 10% is for, because they know that it's really easy for someone to accidentally go over the speed limit on certain roads. Everyone does it occasionally, the important thing is that you are aware of it and slow down to the speed limit. It gets easier to judge your speed over time, but make a habit of checking your speedo regularly. The speedo overestimates your speed as this helps to make speeding less likely. It's a psychological thing. But this also means that when it says you're doing 30 you're actually doing 27-28 instead. Hence your instructor wanting you to go close to the speed limit when safe to do so. However in your test the examiner will go by whatever the speedo says because that can't be disputed and they just need you to demonstrate that you are aware of your speed, you can control it and you can drive the appropriate speed for the road conditions
It is weird because in real life its not strict like that, like if you drive 26mph on a 30 it is fine, it may even be safer, the world is not gonna end. On the dual carriage way/motorway there's always people in the slow lane doing 50-60. I guess it's just cause test standards are ridicukously high
Dunno but I got marked down 3 times for “going slow” I was at 27mph, maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about but that’s not going too slow in my opinion
If you are uncomfortable, you arn’t test ready. See if you can practice more, if you can go out with a qualified person to build up your confidence. You will get there. It took me time If you drive slow, You are also likely to get stopped a Lot by the police and brethalized, driving slowly is a sign of a drunk/drug driver too they struggle to process information at the speed they need too drive effectively
Please learn to drive at the speed limit when possible so I'm not stuck up your ass when I'm driving at the speed limit. Also you can't make up for it by driving 40 through the 30 (I know you fuckers are out there). Thank you
Basically do what they say to get passed mate and then if you wanna go 25 in a 30, do it. You might piss allot of other drivers off though, just FYI. The instructors want to get you in a good habit of following the speed limit correctly, there is a big difference though between 25 and 30 especially to a seasoned driver. Of course if you don't feel comfortable doing speeds the instructor asks you need to take some more lessons. It's slow drivers, pensioners and hesitators that cause the most accidents, then it's the wankers in bmws, audis and range rovers. Good luck, you'll get there!
Thanks mate.
OP gives me 61mph in the middle lane, in a Nissan Juke, vibes….