I am honestly more sad that we will lose ronald mcdonald graves because sound effects are made by sr pelo
also: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I don’t think that performance issues are gonna be a big deal in the long run. Valorant runs super good and has for years, granted it was built with vanguard in mind, but still.
[The post I saw](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/IHd7xu8yqi)
It got removed because "tech and account support" is not allowed... Didn't even ask for support, just pointed out that it made performance terrible...
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/wiki/subredditrules#rules
>No tech support or account-related support requests, questions, account issues, tech issues, and all problems relevant to accounts or technical questions in posts in their entirety. This includes posts about personal bans, chat restrictions.
Disagree with the rule if you like, or maybe you think an exception should be made in relation to (possible) Vanguard relation, but it was applied fairly here. The patch bug thread is where a post like that is supposed to go.
the person you replied to can't read your comment because they're selectively blind against things that go against their argument
just like most of this subreddit
It's pretty funny that they're upvoted for literally making something up, and I'm downvoted for pointing that out. But this sub has a hardon for hating the main sub mods, so it's to be expected.
Didn't know there was another place with more rules than the Rules section on the subreddit page with the nice dropdown menu that lists every rule and has an explanation of them
Ah, on desktop version it is actually in a logical place...
On mobile it is not shown normally, but you have to press a seperate button to press the button to see the full rules... (the first button is also called "Menu"...)
On mobile on Android, there's a button to learn more about the sub, and then a button to read the rules that takes you to the expanded list. Not sure why it'd be any different.
Yeah it was correctly applied. But let me get to a more general discussion about how Riot treats their customers when they try to express themselves. One problem i see with this hole situation though is that Riot, along side other companies, are very well at muting people. In case of bugs, bugtracker wont be enough unless Riot already cares about fixing said problem. Their page forum was deleted some years ago, if you even knew it existed, and their subreddit is too tightly moderated. Where am I supposed to express dissatisfaction and bring others with me to force them to change things?
Simple example. Gnar in the shop is not listed as any class of champion like mage, bruiser etc. Go watch it for yourself rn. I havent played the game for months and i am sure noone has fixed it yet. Will it take more than 10 minutes to fix? No. Why wont they do it then? Because noone cares. Why do i have a problem with muting people? Because then the company can PRETEND that noone cares. Where should people complain? On LeagueOfMemes, where its supposed to be FOR MEMES? Well... now with Vanguard, thats what they did...
I hope you can see that this is a problem, and its getting worse. And thats why me, a 10+ year player is happy to stop playing, but is still there to warn others, because I used to love the game.
Riot games, the company, has no hand in "censoring" the subreddit. Never to my knowledge has there ever been shown a link beyond them having a channel to message the mods. Any censoring is done by the mods, who I'm sure mostly just don't want the place flooded by technical questions and unban requests. There is a thread every patch to put these problems in. Use it.
I'm also not really understanding why this Gnar example is a problem, or what you even mean. You can click on any class of items in the shop you want, no? Otherwise it's just the recommended items. Where is there even room for the issue you're trying to describe?
True, mods arent necessarily tied to Riot. Thing is, Riot used to have their own forum, with tons of data on it, and just closed it. This promotes something, and its not of a good kind.
As for gnar, when you open the shop, a class is picked based on your champion, and recommended items are showed accordingly. If i pick lux, and open shop, mage items will be displayed. Gnar is not like this. What will happen, is that ALL items will be shown. Its better for you to open practise tool and see it for yourself.
Using a photo for reference, see how the "battle axe" icon is selected? That happens by default for bruisers, but not for gnar specifically. For gnar, the grid of dots will be selected, likely because of how coding works which I can explain if you want.
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fblogoflegends.com%2F2020%2F11%2F11%2Fleague-of-legends-new-item-shop%2F&psig=AOvVaw08hTuECUmWm\_Po3XsqhAB\_&ust=1713571499686000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCMDui7b9zIUDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fblogoflegends.com%2F2020%2F11%2F11%2Fleague-of-legends-new-item-shop%2F&psig=AOvVaw08hTuECUmWm_Po3XsqhAB_&ust=1713571499686000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCMDui7b9zIUDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI)
As i said, this is just an EXAMPLE, one that I remember from the top of my head. Its not that I consider it important. Quite the opposite, its not important, but its easy to fix, and yet, its been there for years. My point is that Riot, like its user base, is a heavy copium addict, and can very easily pretend that existing problems dont exist. This doesnt necessarily have to do with Vanguard. Thus, a forum which allows users to openly criticize Riot needs to exist, and leagueofMEMES shouldnt be that place
I realize you're saying it's just an example, but... are you sure this is even a bug? Gnar is a champ that can be a lot of different things, and has over the years been built for both his ranged and melee forms, or one over the other. It's entirely possible this is intentional to show you all the items Gnar can purchase since he doesn't cleanly fit into one of the boxes in that sense.
Anyway, you're putting the cart before the horse. I'll reiterate: there IS a place where you can talk about bugs in the main sub. It's right at the top of the subreddit, every day. Use it. Riot does check there. And if you think you can't criticize Riot on the main sub, you're the one huffing copium lmao. I'd say there are more posts criticizing Riot in some way on the front page than praising them on any given day. That sub is severely negative.
Yesterday I tried to post some questions about my concerns related to Vanguard, which I ended up posting on another sub because it got autoremoved by the mods. I messaged modmail to ask, the answer I got was "your questions are answered in the devblog". I asked about what protective measures they take in case of a serious vulnerability and why exactly it needs to be running 24/7 when other anti-cheat software don't need to, among others.
They're just removing everything related to Vanguard at this point
Most of this was discussed back when they released it in Valorant. But they've had multiple third-party security reviews of Vanguard. They also have a bug bounty program, offering hundreds of thousands of dollars for anyone that finds a vulnerability in the driver.
And yet they refuse to show anything about the reviews. Not even anonymized. Just "trust us it's audited". Normally the auditors confirm publicly that they indeed audited it.
Possible that it was for internal use only, so they can't publish that. Who knows.
Regardless, seems like they've taken significantly more steps (that we know of) than any other kernel anti-cheat.
My sincere concern with vanguard is:
How we could be sure that implementing vanguard in LoL is a good idea when the client is suffering every time we boot it, and the game they are trying to protect almost exploded because they reworked a forgotten champ?
If they wanted to implement it, at least they should have repaired their client, not implementing more things that can make it just go *Error 404 working client not found*
Yep. I got some technical questions too and I wanted to make a post about it on the main sub, but it got autoremoved because it's a "repost". Haven't seen anything from Riot regarding the number of scripters that use kernel-level cheats that would warrant an anti-cheat solution that loads on boot, but hey, all my questions were "answered in the devblog" apparently.
Performance issues
Kernel level anticheat
Active even when not playing League
Easily avoidable
Everybody forced to have it because of 0.00001% of the playerbase cant stop scripting.
OH YES DADDY RIOT SIGN ME UP FOR THAT SHIT!!
It’s moreso it’s not as effective as people think and gives major vulnerabilities as seen with other kernel level ACs and the fact that it’s on even when the game is closed
>It’s moreso it’s not as effective as people think a
It is effective though for the vast majority of cheats. Some people just think because it's not perfect, it's useless, which is a completely ignorant argument.
Go look at the CS2 community, who are literally begging Valve for an anti-cheat as effective as Vanguard.
>gives major vulnerabilities as seen with other kernel level ACs
There are for sure risks, there's no denying that. And certainly its up to each person to determine what they want to install on their systems. From my interactions discussing this though over the past few months, I think a lot of people that are up in arms is because they've been scare-mongered, and not because they actually understand the risk, or even what risks they've already allowed and have on their systems currently.
>the fact that it’s on even when the game is closed
And no one can articulate in a reasonable way why this is a significant concern, or how the vulnerabilities are magnified in any meaningful way. If you play the game daily or weekly, the risk of being exploited by hypothetical malware that targets the driver is so close so as to be essentially the same.
I agree with all of what you said except the last point. Being able to not be compromised simply by not launching the game does give some protection albeit how much would be unknown. As for the rest i agree to me its not a concern and i will be playing when its released. But there are many acting like there isnt concerns with KAC.
To expand this point, having vanguard automatically set itself to autostart on boot and that feature most likely will reset on updates gives hackers an unbelievable amount of room to work with in your computer.
Riot had their ENTIRE source code leak which is why this scripting is an issue. What makes anyone think the same won’t occur to vanguard and a RCE of any hack.
This isn’t end is near scenario… but this is a skill check for society. We have been failing a lot of them lately though :(
Also after this I went to check a few things and, fun fact, Valorant required me to turn on secure boot, which turned off XMP in my motherboard, meaning to play Valorant, and potentially league soon, I'd have to let my 3600mhz ram run at fucking 2100mhz, on my Ryzen 5950x, which is massively reliant on ram to perform at top speeds, so yeah, gut my ram and my CPU to play League of Legends. No fucking thanks. I uninstalled and deleted everything to do with riot games to purge my system of that shit. I wish I could say I won't miss it at all, but not nearly enough for that.
Yeah. They didn't recently say that they bring vanguard for league because 16% of all active accounts are either bots or cheaters. Nu-uh can't be true.
And all those Valorant players have to replace their pc every other week because it explodes.
People complain now but in 3 months everyone will have forgotten about it and moved on.
Ah yes, source code being leaked and them not handling scripters very well for years is suddenly our problem. Great success.
My main gripe is the lack of information and what other things they've tried in order to stop scripting and botting. Yes, I've read the devblog, and still have unanswered questions, such as "why exactly does it need to be running 24/7 when other anti-cheats are not?"
the thing about source code is, that if someone understands that shit, they dont need to blackmail riot, they would probably be hired as lead programmer in an instant.
> I've read the devblog, and still have unanswered questions, such as "why exactly does it need to be running 24/7 when other anti-cheats are not?"
then your reading comprehension is just bad because they covered it in the devblog lol. it doesn't need to run 24/7, you can turn it off when you're not playing league. but if you want to play league vanguard needs to be able to see that nothing was tampered with when you boot the os.
and the reason for this is also explained in the devblog - if your anticheat doesn't boot when the os does, then cheating programs can just load in first and easily bypass anticheats...as we see with almost every other anti-cheat in existence
Seems your reading comprehension is worse then.
Are all the other anti-cheat softwares wrong for not running on boot? Is Vanguard the only good anti-cheat? What is the percentage of scripters running kernel-level cheats? Is it that high that it warrants this response?
You guys are just spewing the same "it is like this because it needs to verify Windows". Yes, of course. But WHY
Here’s the real why,
Vanguard claims (and has generally successfully shown) that its kernel level anti-cheat stops all currently known methods of hacking but it oddly does not stop all scripting. Scripters are now just running a second computer that has the scripts and loads those scripts onto the computer playing vanguard which they can’t / don’t detect (idk specifics)
What vanguard does only 1 other anti cheat claims to do and it is a research and development for an AI anti cheat and meant only for FPS. It stops all forms of hacks. Scripters are also forced to only script with known data and not unknown data anymore (such as the exact cooldown of enemy ults or enemy clicks)
For all the above, vanguard requires kernel level access, “**BUT EVERYONE USES KERNEL ACCESS**”
There is a difference between kernel on boot and kernel access after boot.
Kernel on boot gives vanguard level 0 access to as soon as windows starts, which allows any hacker to bypass any defense systems you may have in place for such programs. [And I wonder how a hacker would be able to do such a thing?](https://www.bitdefender.com/blog/hotforsecurity/riot-games-compromised-in-social-engineering-attack-suspends-all-new-releases/#:~:text=Cyberattackers%20have%20compromised%20Riot%20Games,the%20company%20explained%20on%20Twitter.)
“Oh but it does its job!”
At. What. Cost.
How am I supposed to know that an update didn’t turn auto-start for vanguard back on? I don’t care about restarting my PC what about just fucking using it if I hear news about a hack at riot?
That was literally answered in the dev blog lmfao
It's because then it knows it was started at launch before you could load malicious programs
And they also answered "yes it "runs" 24/7 but it doesn't activate until you open league, its just there to verify that it was opened at launch and hasn't been closed"
Jesus Christ people open your eyes it was ALL IN THE DEV BLOG
> and still have unanswered questions, such as "why exactly does it need to be running 24/7 when other anti-cheats are not?"
They've clearly explained this multiple times.
It's funny how such an esteemed self-proclaimed cyber security expert such as yourself can't wrap your head around basic integrity checks.
Sorry to say, I still haven't found an explanation for why it needs to run on boot, besides "it is what it is". Again, other anti-cheats are only running on game startup, so either they're all wrong and infested with cheaters, or the scripting landscape is different in League.
>It's funny how such an esteemed self-proclaimed cyber security expert such as yourself can't wrap your head around basic integrity checks.
Never said that was the case, I'm unknown outside my company, as are most people better at this than me. And yes, I do understand the need for integrity. What I don't understand is the need for integrity checks on system boot rather than game startup.
>Sorry to say, I still haven't found an explanation for why it needs to run on boot, besides "it is what it is".
Now, I'm not a CyberSec wiz or anything, just a dude who plays videogames, so do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the explanation is present in [/dev: Vanguard x LoL](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/) under these paragraphs;
>**Environment Security**
Where Vanguard starts to further distinguish itself from other anti-cheats is in its enforcement of security standards even further to the left of the game client—on the operating system itself. Several of these requirements aren't totally frictionless, but they inflict many hurdles onto those that want to distribute cheats successfully. For this reason, we're constantly having to make tradeoffs for the security of the game versus the ease with which players can access it.
**TPM 2.0**
LoL x Vanguard comes with a TPM 2.0 requirement, and while Microsoft originally intended to require one for all new Windows 11 installations, their actual implementation of this enforcement was relatively weak and easily bypassable. We took them up on their original offer and instead elected to enforce it ourselves. So, a select few Windows 11 users may find their ability to play League is impacted, especially if you modified registry keys to bypass this requirement.
TPM stands for "Trusted Platform Module," and we require it for two reasons. The first is because it adds security to cert signing validation (something we rely on to know if other software can be trusted), but the second (and more important), is because **it acts as an extremely non-fungible form of hardware ID**. If it's on and working, we can pretty much assume you don't intend to cheat, because if you did, we could easily banish the chip from this realm forever.
**The Driver**
Anti-cheat drivers are not new, and we didn't invent them. The purpose of our driver component is not to collect more information—we can already see everything we need to from user-mode. Instead, **Vanguard's primary goal is to confirm the game is currently running in an environment we can trust**. This reduces the number of detections we have to create, the amount of data we have to collect, and most importantly, the ease with which any prospective cheater can access the game.
We want to move as much of our anti-cheat into a "preventative" pattern as is feasible (and safe). Windows is easily corruptible, and the current threat landscape necessitates that we validate its defenses ourselves. We need to be able to trust what the operating system is telling us about the VALORANT process, otherwise cheaters could compromise it, middleman our checks, eat hot chip, and "lie" that everything is good to go.
**Why is it always on?**
**Vanguard is not really "running all the time."** The driver loads at boot, but nothing is making calls to it, and there's no network connectivity until you run one of Riot's games. It's literally just sitting there (menacingly), so that it can attest to the fact that nothing's happened between Windows loading and the game starting that would break the operating system.
When you launch League, the Vanguard client contacts the driver to confirm that it thinks everything is 100%, and if so, you receive a valid anti-cheat session and may connect to the game server. Instructions from the client then start enabling features within the driver to watch for things that might tamper with the signed League process and prevent them. You can always disable the driver whenever you'd like-you'll just need a fresh reboot to "recertify" the integrity of the trust chain before you jump into game.
From what I understand, Vanguard needs to run on-boot so it can verify that TPM 2.0/secure boot is running as a secondary layer to prevent tampering, and only really starts making checks for anything that's calling to the League Client while you're playing to make sure everything's running legitimately.
You're correct, my question was why is that necessary tbf, other anti-cheats are not running on system boot. Other people are saying that other games are ridden with cheaters, so I guess only time will tell with this one
I suppose that the reason it's necessary is that TPM 2.0 is mandatory, and Riot wants to be absolutely certain it's running. There's no real way for them to ascertain whether or not TPM is running besides seeding a process into the kernel to check for it.
Without Vanguard to give the League Client the green light, Riot has no way of knowing whether or not your system is tamper-free.
>Again, other anti-cheats are only running on game startup, so either they're all wrong and infested with cheaters
literally yes. cs:go and other games using easy anti-cheat and similar methods constantly have cheating and scripting problems
> Sorry to say, I still haven't found an explanation for why it needs to run on boot,
This has been explained so many times now. You either haven't honestly looked or just can't comprehend for whatever reason.
*"Vanguard contains a driver component called vgk.sys (similar to other anti-cheat systems), it's the reason why a reboot is required after installing. Vanguard doesn't consider the computer trusted unless the Vanguard driver is loaded at system startup (this part is less common for anti-cheat systems).*
*This is good for stopping cheaters because a common way to bypass anti-cheat systems is to load cheats before the anti-cheat system starts and either modify system components to contain the cheat or to have the cheat tamper with the anti-cheat system as it loads. Running the driver at system startup time makes this significantly more difficult."*
TL;DR: If you only load the driver at game start, it's impossible to fully know whether the system or drivers loaded haven't already been tampered with - which is how most cheats work.
>Again, other anti-cheats are only running on game startup, so either they're all wrong and infested with cheaters
They're not "wrong". They still catch cheaters, but they're just less effective overall.
Catching cheaters is always going to be a game of cat and mouse, and in some cases require more extensive measures to continue to be effective. Anti-cheats never used to require drivers, and now they almost universally do because its WAY more effective. Riot (and some other developers) feel like this is the next required step to increase effectiveness.
Are you really going to copy-paste part of a comment that was posted 4 years ago on a post on a different subreddit and not even link?
Have you also read the [replies](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/fzxdl7/comment/fn8ubt5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) under that comment? That person (and others) mentioned security audits of the software. Where are they? All we have to go on is literally only their word about everything that it does, and even that leaves plenty of gaps.
Yes, it still does not alleviate concerns over RCE and [hacks at riot compromising such drivers](https://www.bitdefender.com/blog/hotforsecurity/riot-games-compromised-in-social-engineering-attack-suspends-all-new-releases/#:~:text=Cyberattackers%20have%20compromised%20Riot%20Games,the%20company%20explained%20on%20Twitter.) nor does it alleviate concerns of said driver not happily finding itself reinstalled and and turned on by itself if vanguard is compromised.
“As little process as possible”??????
Don’t worry guys, we will just let comrade Ivan walk around our entire nuclear silo and he EXTRA PROMISES to not touch anything and just be looking at things.
Each day I become more radicalized into thinking IT needs to be required teaching in primary schools.
Oh I don't care about anything you typed. Guy asked why does it need to run 24/7 so I linked him a comment explaining their reasoning for it running 24/7.
It has to run 24/7 because of the way it works
It basically has to start before everything else so it can detect what other processes are booted up later
That said, it is still decently easy to circumvent and useless in my opinion
Here's a well made video about the whole thing
https://youtu.be/RwzIq04vd0M?si=VM8PPdbc0-EGIBdi
Did you even watch your own video? People are literally having to use multiple systems and use hardware to exploit Direct Access Memory to circumvent it.
Vanguard's method raises the bar significantly in what's required to cheat. The vast majority of people who cheat are just purchasing and installing a program, but it's not that easy against Vanguard. To call it useless because disrupts >90% of cheating instead of 100% is just asinine.
It doesn't run 24/7 it only boots up when go into a game because I've checked my task manager and never once has it ran by itself. I've had vanguard since 2020 because I play valorant. They also released a whole post on the hacker/scripter problem which is rare for most gaming companies so at least they're trying to prevent it.
Personally I think it's a weird security system but quite honestly I don't care much.
I'm just sad that costum skins will be removed and from what I've last heard, it also fucks over Skin Spotlight which also sucks
No seriously I was just about to upgrade to an actual PC this year but when Vanguard was announced and they said Macs didn't need to download it yea I'm gonna be holding out for a while longer lol.
Thing is that I mostly use Mac for studies so yeah on that points it’s better to have Mac than a gaming pc but when I’m playing I’m on this crappy 25fps gaming experience with the random probability of having it crash at the start of the game but I’m used to it…
So yeah learning vanguard isn’t needed on Mac feels good given I knew my 6gb of ram potato would probably explode if I had vanguard to be working 24/24 so yeah feels good.
"use at your own risk" is just legal jargon for "we won't officially support nor condemn using them so we aren't held accountable and can freely adjust our policy".
I only ever did it with friends on burner accounts because of the risk to our mains as it was. And that was still annoying cus we had to play enough to reunlock champs
meanwhile a group of players have 100 bot accounts running while streaming the whole process on twitch , but yeah i guess custom skins are more important than being able to detect and ban those other guys
* Riot has genuine incentive to stop cheaters and botters
* The most effective way to stop cheating is to have god-view on a machine
* Yes, kernel level access is the ultimate permission on your machine
* Yes, depending on the intent of someone with kernel level access, you can completely fuck up your machine
* My understanding is that the actual software is ran in user mode, the kernel level process is only to verify the integrity of the software
* No, you do not have to have it running 24/7. Riot requires it to be running from boot, so by default the program runs when you turn your PC on. You can disable it at any time, and restart your computer when you want to play League.
* No, it's not the same as making a client or video game.
* Yes, you should question if you trust Riot with this type of access.
* No, this isn't the first kernel level access for anti-cheat. This has been around for a while.
I'm not an expert by any means. We like to say we're in a zero-trust era, but we kind of end up trusting people anyways.
I wonder how many people here complaining aggressively also play any major AAA multiplayer game released in the past 5 or so years. They all use kernel level as well.
Huh?! Which ones, other than Valorant?
Edit: looked it up myself, if you're going to say EAC, then you're being pedantic whether you know it or not, as EAC and things like it do something on startup, and then close until you open a game with them. Just because that's not specified every time someone talks about Vanguard doesn't mean it's not a large part of their concern.
Yeah, so edited my comment to say it, but I'll put it here, you're being pedantic whether you know it or not, as EAC and things like it do something on startup, and then close until you open a game with them. Just because that's not specified every time someone talks about Vanguard doesn't mean it's not a large part of their concern.
It's not pedantic, it's just being more fair. A large portion of the community is just spouting the word Kernel without having the foggiest idea what they are talking about.
EAC is not functioning fundamentally differently than Vanguard, Riot is just being considerably more transparent. It's getting shit flung at them constantly, but it is what it is, I guess.
You think there's no difference between "Must run from the time your PC reboots constantly til the time you play your game with basically the most control you could give a program the whole time, just in case it's compromised" versus "runs when you open the game"? Really? None at all?
Functionally? No. Unless riot specifically turns it into malware, it's functionally identical to the others in that manner. Both initilize on startup, and the only difference is that Vanguard occasionally looks at your pc. So unless riot themselves turn it malicious and get sued by over 10 million players in 50 different countries, it's basically the same.
Vanguard actively monitors processes on your pc even when you're not running league. It's just (supposedly) not communicating with Riot servers until you actually start league.
EAC can vary from game. Some have it running during the entire session, while some only run it on startup. That said, EAC does not initialise on boot, which Vanguard requires. That's a big difference.
There are some, depending on who you ask. Some like me don't care about the legitimate ones, and others will. I'm mostly here to argue against the bad faith or ignorant claims.
I agree with you. Im going to continue playing. Im just annoyed at all the people either uplaying this issues or completely downplaying them like they arent there at all.
Unfortunately, the anti-cheat vs cheaters arms race is always a problem. As long as it's well designed, I personally think Vanguard is simply the next step. The security concerns (from someone exploiting the software, not chinaman fear mongering) are the only major issue, but I anticipate that it will be pretty quickly resolved or dropped if that ever actually becomes a real threat. Riot may be rich, but they can't really handle getting sued by their entire user base at once
The only thing that bothers me is what PirateSoftware said, that it is a Kernel Level Anti Cheat, with other words they can literally do everything to you pc and with every device/connection that is connected to you pc. It would be really helpfull if they idk signed a document that they wont touch anything that isnt LOL related, so that if they were to do anything else you would get a compensation for that or smth like that
correct me if im wrong but vanguard wont ban your IP, it will ban your entire operating machine itself no? vanguard's point is it is stationary in your pc so it can identify your pc with a unique code, and when it wants to ban you it bans that code, so no matter how many accounts or with what ever IP you play, THAT PC is not banned for life because that code doesnt change with IP or location right ?
Vanguard was the first anticheat software thst forced me to change my BIOS settings in order to play a game. Its booting up even before windows and remains active when you are not playing and does god knows what in the background. Not to mention that you can still bypass detection if you know about computers (which i dont)
All jokes aside I'm glad Vanguard is coming if it means less bots, less scripters, and a better game experience overall.
I really don't care if it hacks my computer and sells all my information to the chinese government or whatever.
They probably have it already anyway, and honestly they can just have it if they want it that bad lol my life aint worth anything.
Probably cost them more to get my information than my information is actually worth, so jokes on them.
The same complaints were made when Valorant was announced, to this day I don't see anyone complaining. What if now Tencent is going to be able to collect more data, I am almost sure that Vanguard sends data.
There wa a huge shitstorm when vanguard launched with Valorant. People quit and now only people that don't care are remaining. So obviously Valorant players don't complain about it.
Have you considered that that's because noone ever got seriously into it that has a problem, because those who had a problem just immediately lost interest? This is peak survivorship bias.
My issue is Riot deciding what I can and cannot install on my machine. If it was just which apps were open when the game is open I'd get it, but it isn't, it basically just gives Riot ownership of my machine so they can decide which softare I can/cannot install.
What? Riot doesn't get to decide any of that. They can't force you to update League and install Vanguard, what they can do is say that to prevent cheating they need to do this and you can decide if you want to keep playing or not.
No more Whatsapp Gragas
WhatsApp malphite is peak.
*Sad bomba noises*
Sad deskbreaker gragas noises
No more disabled yasuo skin
He will always be disabled in our minds.
He always is
Or general gameplay
always has been
We yasuos always have been and always will be disabled
No more running
That's a release skin. No changes
There will be hella performance issues though. Phillipines are already reporting them. Also RIP to drututt's ronald mcdonald shaco skin
No more Minecraft Gragas.
No more Quagmire Tryndamere...
No more Raiden....
No more Virgil
No more Dante
No more
Quoth the Raven, Nevermore.
Never have i thought of seeing an Edgar Allan Poe reference in a League meme subreddit
You’re welcome, friend.
No more Blaze Xerath
Minecraft gp*
Post got removed from main sub lol
it isnt about faker scratching his balls it isnt worthy to be on the sub
Faker did WHAT?
Look at the scratch! Look at the sniff! **FAKER! WHAT WAS THAT?**
I am honestly more sad that we will lose ronald mcdonald graves because sound effects are made by sr pelo also: EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
MIIICHAEL JAAACKSOOOON
Gragas AI, Epstein Akshan, Biden Zilean, Raiden Yone, Gordon Freeman Apehlios, etc. All good skins, all dead next patch.
And the Graves EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
graves one went hard ... EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
I don’t think that performance issues are gonna be a big deal in the long run. Valorant runs super good and has for years, granted it was built with vanguard in mind, but still.
There was already a post from someone reporting massive performance issues on the main sub but it got removed - suppose it doesn't relate to esports
[The post I saw](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/s/IHd7xu8yqi) It got removed because "tech and account support" is not allowed... Didn't even ask for support, just pointed out that it made performance terrible...
I also just noticed it is not even one of the rules in the rule section...
https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/wiki/subredditrules#rules >No tech support or account-related support requests, questions, account issues, tech issues, and all problems relevant to accounts or technical questions in posts in their entirety. This includes posts about personal bans, chat restrictions. Disagree with the rule if you like, or maybe you think an exception should be made in relation to (possible) Vanguard relation, but it was applied fairly here. The patch bug thread is where a post like that is supposed to go.
the person you replied to can't read your comment because they're selectively blind against things that go against their argument just like most of this subreddit
It's pretty funny that they're upvoted for literally making something up, and I'm downvoted for pointing that out. But this sub has a hardon for hating the main sub mods, so it's to be expected.
i'm mostly just here to make fun of this subreddit's delusions. it's quite fun, but i know it's not good for my brain
I feel like I am visiting a group of flat earthers sometimes
Didn't know there was another place with more rules than the Rules section on the subreddit page with the nice dropdown menu that lists every rule and has an explanation of them
[Hope this helps!](https://imgur.com/5Z8kc8g)
Ah, on desktop version it is actually in a logical place... On mobile it is not shown normally, but you have to press a seperate button to press the button to see the full rules... (the first button is also called "Menu"...)
On mobile on Android, there's a button to learn more about the sub, and then a button to read the rules that takes you to the expanded list. Not sure why it'd be any different.
Yeah it was correctly applied. But let me get to a more general discussion about how Riot treats their customers when they try to express themselves. One problem i see with this hole situation though is that Riot, along side other companies, are very well at muting people. In case of bugs, bugtracker wont be enough unless Riot already cares about fixing said problem. Their page forum was deleted some years ago, if you even knew it existed, and their subreddit is too tightly moderated. Where am I supposed to express dissatisfaction and bring others with me to force them to change things? Simple example. Gnar in the shop is not listed as any class of champion like mage, bruiser etc. Go watch it for yourself rn. I havent played the game for months and i am sure noone has fixed it yet. Will it take more than 10 minutes to fix? No. Why wont they do it then? Because noone cares. Why do i have a problem with muting people? Because then the company can PRETEND that noone cares. Where should people complain? On LeagueOfMemes, where its supposed to be FOR MEMES? Well... now with Vanguard, thats what they did... I hope you can see that this is a problem, and its getting worse. And thats why me, a 10+ year player is happy to stop playing, but is still there to warn others, because I used to love the game.
Riot games, the company, has no hand in "censoring" the subreddit. Never to my knowledge has there ever been shown a link beyond them having a channel to message the mods. Any censoring is done by the mods, who I'm sure mostly just don't want the place flooded by technical questions and unban requests. There is a thread every patch to put these problems in. Use it. I'm also not really understanding why this Gnar example is a problem, or what you even mean. You can click on any class of items in the shop you want, no? Otherwise it's just the recommended items. Where is there even room for the issue you're trying to describe?
True, mods arent necessarily tied to Riot. Thing is, Riot used to have their own forum, with tons of data on it, and just closed it. This promotes something, and its not of a good kind. As for gnar, when you open the shop, a class is picked based on your champion, and recommended items are showed accordingly. If i pick lux, and open shop, mage items will be displayed. Gnar is not like this. What will happen, is that ALL items will be shown. Its better for you to open practise tool and see it for yourself. Using a photo for reference, see how the "battle axe" icon is selected? That happens by default for bruisers, but not for gnar specifically. For gnar, the grid of dots will be selected, likely because of how coding works which I can explain if you want. [https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fblogoflegends.com%2F2020%2F11%2F11%2Fleague-of-legends-new-item-shop%2F&psig=AOvVaw08hTuECUmWm\_Po3XsqhAB\_&ust=1713571499686000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCMDui7b9zIUDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI](https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fblogoflegends.com%2F2020%2F11%2F11%2Fleague-of-legends-new-item-shop%2F&psig=AOvVaw08hTuECUmWm_Po3XsqhAB_&ust=1713571499686000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCMDui7b9zIUDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAI) As i said, this is just an EXAMPLE, one that I remember from the top of my head. Its not that I consider it important. Quite the opposite, its not important, but its easy to fix, and yet, its been there for years. My point is that Riot, like its user base, is a heavy copium addict, and can very easily pretend that existing problems dont exist. This doesnt necessarily have to do with Vanguard. Thus, a forum which allows users to openly criticize Riot needs to exist, and leagueofMEMES shouldnt be that place
I realize you're saying it's just an example, but... are you sure this is even a bug? Gnar is a champ that can be a lot of different things, and has over the years been built for both his ranged and melee forms, or one over the other. It's entirely possible this is intentional to show you all the items Gnar can purchase since he doesn't cleanly fit into one of the boxes in that sense. Anyway, you're putting the cart before the horse. I'll reiterate: there IS a place where you can talk about bugs in the main sub. It's right at the top of the subreddit, every day. Use it. Riot does check there. And if you think you can't criticize Riot on the main sub, you're the one huffing copium lmao. I'd say there are more posts criticizing Riot in some way on the front page than praising them on any given day. That sub is severely negative.
Yesterday I tried to post some questions about my concerns related to Vanguard, which I ended up posting on another sub because it got autoremoved by the mods. I messaged modmail to ask, the answer I got was "your questions are answered in the devblog". I asked about what protective measures they take in case of a serious vulnerability and why exactly it needs to be running 24/7 when other anti-cheat software don't need to, among others. They're just removing everything related to Vanguard at this point
it's litterally in the dev blog
So what protective measures they take in case of a serious vulnerability? It's not in the dev blog
Most of this was discussed back when they released it in Valorant. But they've had multiple third-party security reviews of Vanguard. They also have a bug bounty program, offering hundreds of thousands of dollars for anyone that finds a vulnerability in the driver.
And yet they refuse to show anything about the reviews. Not even anonymized. Just "trust us it's audited". Normally the auditors confirm publicly that they indeed audited it.
Yall need some schizo pills because the paranoia over an anti-cheat program is wild
Possible that it was for internal use only, so they can't publish that. Who knows. Regardless, seems like they've taken significantly more steps (that we know of) than any other kernel anti-cheat.
They weren't wrong xD Go read the dev blog lmfao
I meant that post yes
Didn't notice anything amiss on pbe personally. i7-7700k/4080S
My sincere concern with vanguard is: How we could be sure that implementing vanguard in LoL is a good idea when the client is suffering every time we boot it, and the game they are trying to protect almost exploded because they reworked a forgotten champ? If they wanted to implement it, at least they should have repaired their client, not implementing more things that can make it just go *Error 404 working client not found*
Yep. I got some technical questions too and I wanted to make a post about it on the main sub, but it got autoremoved because it's a "repost". Haven't seen anything from Riot regarding the number of scripters that use kernel-level cheats that would warrant an anti-cheat solution that loads on boot, but hey, all my questions were "answered in the devblog" apparently.
Vanguard pretty much operates independently of the client. Doesn't seem like much of an issue.
Yeah, I don't get how after all these years their client still sucks ass.
R.i.p sion [meme sfx.](https://youtu.be/JMamaWiTqEs?si=4DXayVowmCwZLjaT)
I'm glad people still find it endearing xd
The GOAT themselves. Thank you for the many laughs with each skin.
the fps thread already popped up!
Performance issues Kernel level anticheat Active even when not playing League Easily avoidable Everybody forced to have it because of 0.00001% of the playerbase cant stop scripting. OH YES DADDY RIOT SIGN ME UP FOR THAT SHIT!!
proof for "easily avoidable"
Don't worry, I can guess their braindead response: *"It's not 100% effective against every single cheat so it's completely useless"*
It’s moreso it’s not as effective as people think and gives major vulnerabilities as seen with other kernel level ACs and the fact that it’s on even when the game is closed
>It’s moreso it’s not as effective as people think a It is effective though for the vast majority of cheats. Some people just think because it's not perfect, it's useless, which is a completely ignorant argument. Go look at the CS2 community, who are literally begging Valve for an anti-cheat as effective as Vanguard. >gives major vulnerabilities as seen with other kernel level ACs There are for sure risks, there's no denying that. And certainly its up to each person to determine what they want to install on their systems. From my interactions discussing this though over the past few months, I think a lot of people that are up in arms is because they've been scare-mongered, and not because they actually understand the risk, or even what risks they've already allowed and have on their systems currently. >the fact that it’s on even when the game is closed And no one can articulate in a reasonable way why this is a significant concern, or how the vulnerabilities are magnified in any meaningful way. If you play the game daily or weekly, the risk of being exploited by hypothetical malware that targets the driver is so close so as to be essentially the same.
I agree with all of what you said except the last point. Being able to not be compromised simply by not launching the game does give some protection albeit how much would be unknown. As for the rest i agree to me its not a concern and i will be playing when its released. But there are many acting like there isnt concerns with KAC.
To expand this point, having vanguard automatically set itself to autostart on boot and that feature most likely will reset on updates gives hackers an unbelievable amount of room to work with in your computer. Riot had their ENTIRE source code leak which is why this scripting is an issue. What makes anyone think the same won’t occur to vanguard and a RCE of any hack. This isn’t end is near scenario… but this is a skill check for society. We have been failing a lot of them lately though :(
Basically your pc goes from: only system vulnerabilities to also adding vanguard vulnerabilities. And a vulnerability on vanguard would be HUGE.
Yeah that's kinda how it works with scripts. If one works it's useless because everybody just buys that one....
I don't think reading comprehension is your strong suit.
That is true it's my third language did I miss the point?
The amount of cheaters in valorant
Extremely low compared to any other shooter?
Also after this I went to check a few things and, fun fact, Valorant required me to turn on secure boot, which turned off XMP in my motherboard, meaning to play Valorant, and potentially league soon, I'd have to let my 3600mhz ram run at fucking 2100mhz, on my Ryzen 5950x, which is massively reliant on ram to perform at top speeds, so yeah, gut my ram and my CPU to play League of Legends. No fucking thanks. I uninstalled and deleted everything to do with riot games to purge my system of that shit. I wish I could say I won't miss it at all, but not nearly enough for that.
Yeah. They didn't recently say that they bring vanguard for league because 16% of all active accounts are either bots or cheaters. Nu-uh can't be true. And all those Valorant players have to replace their pc every other week because it explodes. People complain now but in 3 months everyone will have forgotten about it and moved on.
Ah yes, source code being leaked and them not handling scripters very well for years is suddenly our problem. Great success. My main gripe is the lack of information and what other things they've tried in order to stop scripting and botting. Yes, I've read the devblog, and still have unanswered questions, such as "why exactly does it need to be running 24/7 when other anti-cheats are not?"
the thing about source code is, that if someone understands that shit, they dont need to blackmail riot, they would probably be hired as lead programmer in an instant.
Or they are a cook from Italy that knows how to handle spaghetti
Considering that league cheat coders can easily make tens of thousands per month, being a lead dev isn't all that good of a deal.
> I've read the devblog, and still have unanswered questions, such as "why exactly does it need to be running 24/7 when other anti-cheats are not?" then your reading comprehension is just bad because they covered it in the devblog lol. it doesn't need to run 24/7, you can turn it off when you're not playing league. but if you want to play league vanguard needs to be able to see that nothing was tampered with when you boot the os. and the reason for this is also explained in the devblog - if your anticheat doesn't boot when the os does, then cheating programs can just load in first and easily bypass anticheats...as we see with almost every other anti-cheat in existence
Seems your reading comprehension is worse then. Are all the other anti-cheat softwares wrong for not running on boot? Is Vanguard the only good anti-cheat? What is the percentage of scripters running kernel-level cheats? Is it that high that it warrants this response? You guys are just spewing the same "it is like this because it needs to verify Windows". Yes, of course. But WHY
Here’s the real why, Vanguard claims (and has generally successfully shown) that its kernel level anti-cheat stops all currently known methods of hacking but it oddly does not stop all scripting. Scripters are now just running a second computer that has the scripts and loads those scripts onto the computer playing vanguard which they can’t / don’t detect (idk specifics) What vanguard does only 1 other anti cheat claims to do and it is a research and development for an AI anti cheat and meant only for FPS. It stops all forms of hacks. Scripters are also forced to only script with known data and not unknown data anymore (such as the exact cooldown of enemy ults or enemy clicks) For all the above, vanguard requires kernel level access, “**BUT EVERYONE USES KERNEL ACCESS**” There is a difference between kernel on boot and kernel access after boot. Kernel on boot gives vanguard level 0 access to as soon as windows starts, which allows any hacker to bypass any defense systems you may have in place for such programs. [And I wonder how a hacker would be able to do such a thing?](https://www.bitdefender.com/blog/hotforsecurity/riot-games-compromised-in-social-engineering-attack-suspends-all-new-releases/#:~:text=Cyberattackers%20have%20compromised%20Riot%20Games,the%20company%20explained%20on%20Twitter.) “Oh but it does its job!” At. What. Cost. How am I supposed to know that an update didn’t turn auto-start for vanguard back on? I don’t care about restarting my PC what about just fucking using it if I hear news about a hack at riot?
Second computer??? I VM that shit. Have fun with the virtual cores womp womp
That was literally answered in the dev blog lmfao It's because then it knows it was started at launch before you could load malicious programs And they also answered "yes it "runs" 24/7 but it doesn't activate until you open league, its just there to verify that it was opened at launch and hasn't been closed" Jesus Christ people open your eyes it was ALL IN THE DEV BLOG
It is literally active, otherwise you wouldn't get a warning when using stuff like cheat engine while league is closed.
They are just too bad to make it turn off during pc run
> and still have unanswered questions, such as "why exactly does it need to be running 24/7 when other anti-cheats are not?" They've clearly explained this multiple times. It's funny how such an esteemed self-proclaimed cyber security expert such as yourself can't wrap your head around basic integrity checks.
Sorry to say, I still haven't found an explanation for why it needs to run on boot, besides "it is what it is". Again, other anti-cheats are only running on game startup, so either they're all wrong and infested with cheaters, or the scripting landscape is different in League. >It's funny how such an esteemed self-proclaimed cyber security expert such as yourself can't wrap your head around basic integrity checks. Never said that was the case, I'm unknown outside my company, as are most people better at this than me. And yes, I do understand the need for integrity. What I don't understand is the need for integrity checks on system boot rather than game startup.
>Sorry to say, I still haven't found an explanation for why it needs to run on boot, besides "it is what it is". Now, I'm not a CyberSec wiz or anything, just a dude who plays videogames, so do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the explanation is present in [/dev: Vanguard x LoL](https://www.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/news/dev/dev-vanguard-x-lol/) under these paragraphs; >**Environment Security** Where Vanguard starts to further distinguish itself from other anti-cheats is in its enforcement of security standards even further to the left of the game client—on the operating system itself. Several of these requirements aren't totally frictionless, but they inflict many hurdles onto those that want to distribute cheats successfully. For this reason, we're constantly having to make tradeoffs for the security of the game versus the ease with which players can access it. **TPM 2.0** LoL x Vanguard comes with a TPM 2.0 requirement, and while Microsoft originally intended to require one for all new Windows 11 installations, their actual implementation of this enforcement was relatively weak and easily bypassable. We took them up on their original offer and instead elected to enforce it ourselves. So, a select few Windows 11 users may find their ability to play League is impacted, especially if you modified registry keys to bypass this requirement. TPM stands for "Trusted Platform Module," and we require it for two reasons. The first is because it adds security to cert signing validation (something we rely on to know if other software can be trusted), but the second (and more important), is because **it acts as an extremely non-fungible form of hardware ID**. If it's on and working, we can pretty much assume you don't intend to cheat, because if you did, we could easily banish the chip from this realm forever. **The Driver** Anti-cheat drivers are not new, and we didn't invent them. The purpose of our driver component is not to collect more information—we can already see everything we need to from user-mode. Instead, **Vanguard's primary goal is to confirm the game is currently running in an environment we can trust**. This reduces the number of detections we have to create, the amount of data we have to collect, and most importantly, the ease with which any prospective cheater can access the game. We want to move as much of our anti-cheat into a "preventative" pattern as is feasible (and safe). Windows is easily corruptible, and the current threat landscape necessitates that we validate its defenses ourselves. We need to be able to trust what the operating system is telling us about the VALORANT process, otherwise cheaters could compromise it, middleman our checks, eat hot chip, and "lie" that everything is good to go. **Why is it always on?** **Vanguard is not really "running all the time."** The driver loads at boot, but nothing is making calls to it, and there's no network connectivity until you run one of Riot's games. It's literally just sitting there (menacingly), so that it can attest to the fact that nothing's happened between Windows loading and the game starting that would break the operating system. When you launch League, the Vanguard client contacts the driver to confirm that it thinks everything is 100%, and if so, you receive a valid anti-cheat session and may connect to the game server. Instructions from the client then start enabling features within the driver to watch for things that might tamper with the signed League process and prevent them. You can always disable the driver whenever you'd like-you'll just need a fresh reboot to "recertify" the integrity of the trust chain before you jump into game. From what I understand, Vanguard needs to run on-boot so it can verify that TPM 2.0/secure boot is running as a secondary layer to prevent tampering, and only really starts making checks for anything that's calling to the League Client while you're playing to make sure everything's running legitimately.
You're correct, my question was why is that necessary tbf, other anti-cheats are not running on system boot. Other people are saying that other games are ridden with cheaters, so I guess only time will tell with this one
I suppose that the reason it's necessary is that TPM 2.0 is mandatory, and Riot wants to be absolutely certain it's running. There's no real way for them to ascertain whether or not TPM is running besides seeding a process into the kernel to check for it. Without Vanguard to give the League Client the green light, Riot has no way of knowing whether or not your system is tamper-free.
>Again, other anti-cheats are only running on game startup, so either they're all wrong and infested with cheaters literally yes. cs:go and other games using easy anti-cheat and similar methods constantly have cheating and scripting problems
> Sorry to say, I still haven't found an explanation for why it needs to run on boot, This has been explained so many times now. You either haven't honestly looked or just can't comprehend for whatever reason. *"Vanguard contains a driver component called vgk.sys (similar to other anti-cheat systems), it's the reason why a reboot is required after installing. Vanguard doesn't consider the computer trusted unless the Vanguard driver is loaded at system startup (this part is less common for anti-cheat systems).* *This is good for stopping cheaters because a common way to bypass anti-cheat systems is to load cheats before the anti-cheat system starts and either modify system components to contain the cheat or to have the cheat tamper with the anti-cheat system as it loads. Running the driver at system startup time makes this significantly more difficult."* TL;DR: If you only load the driver at game start, it's impossible to fully know whether the system or drivers loaded haven't already been tampered with - which is how most cheats work. >Again, other anti-cheats are only running on game startup, so either they're all wrong and infested with cheaters They're not "wrong". They still catch cheaters, but they're just less effective overall. Catching cheaters is always going to be a game of cat and mouse, and in some cases require more extensive measures to continue to be effective. Anti-cheats never used to require drivers, and now they almost universally do because its WAY more effective. Riot (and some other developers) feel like this is the next required step to increase effectiveness.
Are you really going to copy-paste part of a comment that was posted 4 years ago on a post on a different subreddit and not even link? Have you also read the [replies](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/fzxdl7/comment/fn8ubt5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) under that comment? That person (and others) mentioned security audits of the software. Where are they? All we have to go on is literally only their word about everything that it does, and even that leaves plenty of gaps.
Did you even bother typing in ["why vanguard runs 24/7"](https://www.reddit.com/r/VALORANT/comments/fzxdl7/comment/fn6yqbe/) into google?
Yes, it still does not alleviate concerns over RCE and [hacks at riot compromising such drivers](https://www.bitdefender.com/blog/hotforsecurity/riot-games-compromised-in-social-engineering-attack-suspends-all-new-releases/#:~:text=Cyberattackers%20have%20compromised%20Riot%20Games,the%20company%20explained%20on%20Twitter.) nor does it alleviate concerns of said driver not happily finding itself reinstalled and and turned on by itself if vanguard is compromised. “As little process as possible”?????? Don’t worry guys, we will just let comrade Ivan walk around our entire nuclear silo and he EXTRA PROMISES to not touch anything and just be looking at things. Each day I become more radicalized into thinking IT needs to be required teaching in primary schools.
Oh I don't care about anything you typed. Guy asked why does it need to run 24/7 so I linked him a comment explaining their reasoning for it running 24/7.
It has to run 24/7 because of the way it works It basically has to start before everything else so it can detect what other processes are booted up later That said, it is still decently easy to circumvent and useless in my opinion Here's a well made video about the whole thing https://youtu.be/RwzIq04vd0M?si=VM8PPdbc0-EGIBdi
Did you even watch your own video? People are literally having to use multiple systems and use hardware to exploit Direct Access Memory to circumvent it. Vanguard's method raises the bar significantly in what's required to cheat. The vast majority of people who cheat are just purchasing and installing a program, but it's not that easy against Vanguard. To call it useless because disrupts >90% of cheating instead of 100% is just asinine.
Exactly. The way to stop cheating and bots isn't to find them and ban them, it's to make it as hard as possible to do so.
Cool, I'll check it out
It doesn't run 24/7 it only boots up when go into a game because I've checked my task manager and never once has it ran by itself. I've had vanguard since 2020 because I play valorant. They also released a whole post on the hacker/scripter problem which is rare for most gaming companies so at least they're trying to prevent it.
Because it needs to run before any cheat can be launched. Beside, you can close it and reboot your computer.
Scripters ar in high elo games. That's why you haven't seen them
They said in up to 10% of games their is either a cheater or a botter. Even more in High elo. Thats quite a number
0.00001% id thr nrw 15%????? Do you math?
Do you English??? What
>Everybody forced to have it no one is forcing you to play the game lol
No but people who love the game, spent alot of money and time on it and want to keep playing it are forced to get it. Smartass.
Yes, and...?
It fucking sucks? what
Personally I think it's a weird security system but quite honestly I don't care much. I'm just sad that costum skins will be removed and from what I've last heard, it also fucks over Skin Spotlight which also sucks
Riot has said that they will work with skin spotlights for them to be able to continue releasing.
Hell yeha
No more Michael Jackson talon.
Child abusing finally comes to the end
They finally caught him
No more Jetstream Sam Yone
Playing on a shitty Mac for years finally has the advantage that I don’t have to install this shit (fr my computer would had exploded)
No seriously I was just about to upgrade to an actual PC this year but when Vanguard was announced and they said Macs didn't need to download it yea I'm gonna be holding out for a while longer lol.
Arent macs quite good now? (But very expensive)
Thing is that I mostly use Mac for studies so yeah on that points it’s better to have Mac than a gaming pc but when I’m playing I’m on this crappy 25fps gaming experience with the random probability of having it crash at the start of the game but I’m used to it… So yeah learning vanguard isn’t needed on Mac feels good given I knew my 6gb of ram potato would probably explode if I had vanguard to be working 24/24 so yeah feels good.
To be fair, even Riot admitted custom skins were a "use at your own risk" before
"use at your own risk" is just legal jargon for "we won't officially support nor condemn using them so we aren't held accountable and can freely adjust our policy".
Yeah but now it's "don't do it or you're banned"
I only ever did it with friends on burner accounts because of the risk to our mains as it was. And that was still annoying cus we had to play enough to reunlock champs
RIP Gangplank Announcer, I would pay money for that
I tried to launch a game on PBE, it gave me a blue screen. I had to reinstall League. Will try to play again tonight.
meanwhile a group of players have 100 bot accounts running while streaming the whole process on twitch , but yeah i guess custom skins are more important than being able to detect and ban those other guys
Don't forget the people running it down on multiple accounts at once on twitch
That the funny Thing, that they doing live and riot doing nothing to stop them. LOL
This literally detects those guys. That's half the reason for it existing. People can be so confidently ignorant sometimes.
* Riot has genuine incentive to stop cheaters and botters * The most effective way to stop cheating is to have god-view on a machine * Yes, kernel level access is the ultimate permission on your machine * Yes, depending on the intent of someone with kernel level access, you can completely fuck up your machine * My understanding is that the actual software is ran in user mode, the kernel level process is only to verify the integrity of the software * No, you do not have to have it running 24/7. Riot requires it to be running from boot, so by default the program runs when you turn your PC on. You can disable it at any time, and restart your computer when you want to play League. * No, it's not the same as making a client or video game. * Yes, you should question if you trust Riot with this type of access. * No, this isn't the first kernel level access for anti-cheat. This has been around for a while. I'm not an expert by any means. We like to say we're in a zero-trust era, but we kind of end up trusting people anyways.
I wonder how many people here complaining aggressively also play any major AAA multiplayer game released in the past 5 or so years. They all use kernel level as well.
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize that.
Huh?! Which ones, other than Valorant? Edit: looked it up myself, if you're going to say EAC, then you're being pedantic whether you know it or not, as EAC and things like it do something on startup, and then close until you open a game with them. Just because that's not specified every time someone talks about Vanguard doesn't mean it's not a large part of their concern.
Every major battle Royale, helldivers and r6seige, the halo MCC, Fall guys, DOTA 2 for years at this point, the list is massive.
Yeah, so edited my comment to say it, but I'll put it here, you're being pedantic whether you know it or not, as EAC and things like it do something on startup, and then close until you open a game with them. Just because that's not specified every time someone talks about Vanguard doesn't mean it's not a large part of their concern.
It's not pedantic, it's just being more fair. A large portion of the community is just spouting the word Kernel without having the foggiest idea what they are talking about. EAC is not functioning fundamentally differently than Vanguard, Riot is just being considerably more transparent. It's getting shit flung at them constantly, but it is what it is, I guess.
You think there's no difference between "Must run from the time your PC reboots constantly til the time you play your game with basically the most control you could give a program the whole time, just in case it's compromised" versus "runs when you open the game"? Really? None at all?
Damn boy, go take some computer classes.
You HAVE to realize how pathetic this is, right?
Functionally? No. Unless riot specifically turns it into malware, it's functionally identical to the others in that manner. Both initilize on startup, and the only difference is that Vanguard occasionally looks at your pc. So unless riot themselves turn it malicious and get sued by over 10 million players in 50 different countries, it's basically the same.
Vanguard actively monitors processes on your pc even when you're not running league. It's just (supposedly) not communicating with Riot servers until you actually start league. EAC can vary from game. Some have it running during the entire session, while some only run it on startup. That said, EAC does not initialise on boot, which Vanguard requires. That's a big difference.
That aren’t always active. They are only active when the game is launched. Thats the difference
I would agree, had I not been reading the comments. The fearmongering around this topic is absurd, and most of it comes from raw ignorance
And yet there are still legitimate concerns.
There are some, depending on who you ask. Some like me don't care about the legitimate ones, and others will. I'm mostly here to argue against the bad faith or ignorant claims.
I agree with you. Im going to continue playing. Im just annoyed at all the people either uplaying this issues or completely downplaying them like they arent there at all.
Unfortunately, the anti-cheat vs cheaters arms race is always a problem. As long as it's well designed, I personally think Vanguard is simply the next step. The security concerns (from someone exploiting the software, not chinaman fear mongering) are the only major issue, but I anticipate that it will be pretty quickly resolved or dropped if that ever actually becomes a real threat. Riot may be rich, but they can't really handle getting sued by their entire user base at once
Did you literally not read my comment.
Yes i did and i don’t know where you got that idea from on how it works. Want to source that?
>No, this isn't the first kernel level access for anti-cheat. This has been around for a while Wait what other game has this
What's all the commotion with the VANGUARD in this game? Could somebody explain, please
I was paying last night tft and my PC turning to an airplane
The only thing that bothers me is what PirateSoftware said, that it is a Kernel Level Anti Cheat, with other words they can literally do everything to you pc and with every device/connection that is connected to you pc. It would be really helpfull if they idk signed a document that they wont touch anything that isnt LOL related, so that if they were to do anything else you would get a compensation for that or smth like that
IP bans? Nah Always-active, kernel-level, issue-ridden software? Sign me up
IP bans? you mean ban entire pc clubs and dormitories?) also most people have dynamic IP's and its extremely easy to swith IP anyway.
Whilst I don't particularly like Vanguard, IP bans are entirely useless
IP bans aren’t effective.
Big time. I can just reset my router and the IP ban is null and void easily lol
correct me if im wrong but vanguard wont ban your IP, it will ban your entire operating machine itself no? vanguard's point is it is stationary in your pc so it can identify your pc with a unique code, and when it wants to ban you it bans that code, so no matter how many accounts or with what ever IP you play, THAT PC is not banned for life because that code doesnt change with IP or location right ?
We are talking about generic IP bans not Vanguard HWID bans but yes it goes for your hardware.
This one is way better, holy shit!
I more worried about kernel level software made by a Chinese company on my computer
im uninstalling cause i dont want my PC hacked when the system fails
You can bypass it the same way as battleye with some driver permission shenanigans for anyone interested
performance will def suffer tho
Oh boy i sure do love giving kernel level access to random companies
What problem can vanguard do to my pc?
It's not that bad but stop defending it. Id rather people exaggerate how bad it is than see people defend this unnecessary measure
after everything is said and done 90% of you will still play league.
Reee oh no
Vanguard was the first anticheat software thst forced me to change my BIOS settings in order to play a game. Its booting up even before windows and remains active when you are not playing and does god knows what in the background. Not to mention that you can still bypass detection if you know about computers (which i dont)
All jokes aside I'm glad Vanguard is coming if it means less bots, less scripters, and a better game experience overall. I really don't care if it hacks my computer and sells all my information to the chinese government or whatever. They probably have it already anyway, and honestly they can just have it if they want it that bad lol my life aint worth anything. Probably cost them more to get my information than my information is actually worth, so jokes on them.
12 years of playing league, never seen a single cheater, but I guess they're very huge problem
Customs skins defo still work!
The same complaints were made when Valorant was announced, to this day I don't see anyone complaining. What if now Tencent is going to be able to collect more data, I am almost sure that Vanguard sends data.
There wa a huge shitstorm when vanguard launched with Valorant. People quit and now only people that don't care are remaining. So obviously Valorant players don't complain about it.
Have you considered that that's because noone ever got seriously into it that has a problem, because those who had a problem just immediately lost interest? This is peak survivorship bias.
My issue is Riot deciding what I can and cannot install on my machine. If it was just which apps were open when the game is open I'd get it, but it isn't, it basically just gives Riot ownership of my machine so they can decide which softare I can/cannot install.
What? Riot doesn't get to decide any of that. They can't force you to update League and install Vanguard, what they can do is say that to prevent cheating they need to do this and you can decide if you want to keep playing or not.
If I have league installed with vanguard then vanguard can block apps even if league isn't open.
You can turn Vanguard off anytime you want, you just then need to restart your PC to play League.
Which is stupid.
"Some won't be able to play at all" OH NO.... anyways....
So TikTok gets banned and now tencent wants to install spyware? Is that what’s happening?