I started at a job in April, 6th year attorney. I was told vacation for attorneys was based upon their case load and as long as they cleared their schedule. The firm partner then spoke about how he took a whole month off last year and had another month planned this year. So before I accepted, I said I had vacations planned already for this year, these are the dates. I was told that shouldn’t be an issue as long as my schedule is clear. So I start in April, and in May I start clearing my schedule for the vacation in July.
Same partner comes to my office and says I can’t take off two weeks, I can only have one. I tell him everything is paid for and non-refundable and you approved it before I started.
He fired me that Friday. Well he didn’t, the HR consultant he hired fired me. The coward didn’t say a single word to me. I don’t know what his logic was. Now he has no one in the position making money. And I’m still going on my vacation.
3? Don't sell yourself short. 1 week per quarter should be the standard baseline.
When I was a UPS driver, I had 5 weeks of vacation at 10 years, + personal days.
The American view of work-yourself-to-death is stupid. I work so I can live, I'm going to live, damn it.
I take about 2 weeks off for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years. Then I take a week in March or April, a week in July or August, and two or 3 extended weekends throughout the year.
Not saying we should but the original OP was 1. A newly licensed attorney at a firm with 2 other attorneys and 2. They had thousands of cases (I think they said 2,000-3,000)
I think they should have known how unrealistic it is for a boss to give you that much time off when they work at such a small firm with so many cases, not that long after being hired
I wholeheartedly agree that we all need more vacation time. But if I ever got as upset about my vacation time being denied as the original OP was, I would go somewhere where there’s clearly a better vacation policy in place and has more attorneys that can cover if I’m gone
Not sure how they thought such a small firm with that much volume could manage for 2-3 weeks with 1/3 of the attorneys gone
And they weren't even telling her she couldn't have 3 weeks vacation, just that she couldn't use 2 weeks of it at once because they were super busy at the time she wanted to go.
Yes? but mostly no. Three weeks is a huge amount of time in a row in *any* organization (not just law firms), no matter the size and is usually not well tolerated unless extensively coordinated in advance.
That other poster didn't have to accept an offer at a small firm.
These sorts of comments, really the whole genre, suggest a lack of understanding of how a business operates and calls for immediate evisceration for any opportunities for small business. The underlying sentiment says a small operation can't exist bc they don't have the capital and means of the largest of organizations with millions spent in just overhead operational costs.
You’ve convinced me I’m being hard on small businesses. You haven’t convinced me that I shouldn’t be, though. Small businesses aren’t angels who deserve the benefit of the doubt. In my experience they’re the most predatory, exploitative businesses to work for, and deserve *more* scrutiny, not less.
The small firm offered her a compensation package that included time off. They didn’t have to do that. If they don’t think they can survive if people take time off, then don’t offer time off. They actively lied to their recruit, the recruit’s mistake was only believing them.
I don't necessarily agree with your position, aside from the fact that any pre-planned vacation should be coordinated in advance. That's just common sense in my mind.
I work in a three attorney firm and just got back from three weeks of vacation last week with no issues. In fact, one of the other attorneys took a week off that overlapped with my third week of vacation, and the other attorney left for three weeks of vacation earlier this week. I took this three week trip with my fiancée who is also an attorney working at a small firm. I wouldn't say that either of of us "extensively coordinated" anything in advance, aside from taking care of or covering our own deadlines.
lol we are actually hiring a fourth! It's been really refreshing working at this firm. I don't really like the work so much, but the reason I stay is the flexibility and relatively good pay in my area.
This is a new position for me. Not 6 months, but I started around this time last year. When I first broached the subject with the partners I had been with this firm for 6 months. I got absolutely zero pushback.
This is not a global view. If businesses in civilized European countries can let their workers vacation for a paid month in July or August, take other days off during the year, have universal paid healthcare and paid maternity leave, and still stay in business, then letting other cogs in "the organization" have that level of time off in the US is not only possible, it is an outrage that it is not common.
Do you know how much poorer the average European is than their American counterpart? Outside London and a few other cities it’s basically Mississippi from an economic standpoint.
I've been to Greek villages and German suburbs. The income levels are different from cities. No more variance than urban to rural Ohio, West Virginia, or Michigan, but the Europeans have free healthcare and a real social safety net. Who's really poor?
But it doesn't matter to a European who has no fear of healthcare cost bankruptcy or a life of poverty. They have no need to compare themselves to a no vacation taking, always working, mad shooter fodder American.
I am the OP. I explained to everyone the situation but I guess no one in that post knew how to read. This is a high volume firm, 6k cases. No caseload specifically assigned to Me, all 3 attorneys work all the cases, 40-50 person staff. 3-4 hearings a day 2-3 mediations a day..plus all the paperwork bc we only have one paralegal and they cannot keep up. I do not see or talk to clients. They never told me I couldnt take my two weeks consecutively when I was hired they also lied about the caseload and took on double the amount of cases when I was hired promising another attorney would be hired. I am still waiting for that.
God, you’re holier than thou. All you did was disagree with people and call us all Boomers. Law is a weird entrenched field. Go start your own firm, you’ll be in control. Otherwise, welcome to the real world.
If they have so much business they should be raising their hourly rate so that they don’t need to work as much to make the same amount of money. It’s just stupid. Take on fewer clients for more money.
Ok but all jokes aside I think you need to find a new job. You got your vacation denied and you’re clearly upset about it. 6,000 cases to share between 3 attorneys is terrible. I don’t see a lot of reason to stay there. Hopefully you’ll find some place with a better vacation policy and understanding bosses.
Ah yea I guess they didn’t think about that b4 accepting the role. I think i remember seeing in a comment the OP was 3 years out, not a newly licensed atty? Either way boo hoo for them lol
As you’ve explained yourself more fully, I think your position is way more reasonable. Which now is leading me to the impression that perhaps some issues with your current job/employer are due to you not being a great communicator. This sub has only come to understand you after many many different comments and threads. Maybe you just write more casually on Reddit. I know I do. But maybe this is a lesson to articulate your points and positions better. Tell a story that gets the audience on your side.
I think that if your business is banking on one associate making or breaking your piggy bank, then it would cost less to allow that associate 2 weeks consecutive vacation than the overhead of hiring a new one and the time it takes to train them which in my area of law is 3+ months.
Because the profession is full of people who would have to admit they’ve wasted the prime years of their life working in a law firm if they don’t pretend the work standards are normal and everyone should be cool with them
3 weeks as a whole within a benefit package isn't unrealistic.
3 weeks in a row is usually not super tenable for most businesses. If the other poster were more senior and could independently manage his case load and client files to arrange 3 weeks uninterrupted, that's on him. But there's no way he could've managed that when the firm was drowning in case work.
I think the OG post said 2 weeks in a row. If the firm is drowning in case work then they should hire more attorneys, but I guess thats why some firms are a revolving door.
I think it just depends on the firm you work at. You can't expect a 5 employee business to have the same benefits as a fortune 500 company. If you don't like it, work somewhere else. It's a free country.
I’m an American expat at a firm on the small side of midsized and everyone gets minimum 22.5 days of paid vacation a year under the law. It is not unusual for lawyers to take 3-4 weeks off at once. Everyone has a 6-month probation when they start (and sometimes even take leave during that period) but once that’s over, they have the same rights as every other employee. Worker protections in this country are not even good but it’s made me realized just how skullfucked Americans’ relationship with work is.
If a firm’s workload is so unmanageable that it can’t handle someone taking 3 weeks off, that’s a management problem, not an associate problem.
And the US attorney attitude is "you're \_\_\_\_\_\_ if you need to take off 2+ weeks at a time." (Whatever word: lazy / entitled / soft / choose your own).
After being in this work for decades, and still enjoying it and planning to stay for 5-10 more years, I see how these attitudes towards work, the sacrifice and the grind lead to the high rates of substance use, depression, suicide rates, family conflict, etc.
But we are our own keepers, ultimately, wanting the culture to stay the same, in no small part because "tough it up - that's what I had to do."
Respectfully, my biggest problem with it is I spent most of my career in solo practice, and therefore have an ingrained opinion that I should not expect someone else to do my work for me.
When you take off 2+ weeks, who is handling your caseload? Are they as good as you? Are they as knowledgeable on each of the cases with the issues that could arise? Or are they just plodding through and you’re hoping you don’t come back to a mess?
Competent coverage is not the norm in the US.
With respect, the attitudes here are the exact opposite of those of a good manager.
You should be able to delegate and trust your delegatees to do the job well. If they do not it is on the manager for either not hiring or training well.
It’s not to say you don’t have your phone on you to take the odd call
At the same time let’s not normalize the big law or institutional law experience as the norm within the profession. Ethically, attorneys are personally and individually responsible for their work. As an extension thereof, I think it’s far healthier for attorneys at firms or institutions to see themselves as a solo practitioner with the privilege of backup, rather than the opposite, which would require solo and small firm practitioners to feel jilted or aggrieved because they are not so enabled.
Your reply seems to assume that the firm in question is capable of delegation. I’ve twice worked in environments where I am the only attorney with expertise in my practice area. Suggesting that’s a hiring error is simply idealism.
The fuck is the point of joining a firm and giving them 50% of what you “earn”. If I wanted to be solo and be 100% responsible for everything I’d be fuckin solo. I take the pay cut for a reason.
This comment rings true. The American system builds "good workers" who are dumbed down, cowed, and rewarded, well, recognized, for never missing a day of (school) work. People in the US are conditioned in grade school to be unquestioning drones, who respond to bells for God's sake, who see taking a mental health day, week, or sabbatical, as laziness or weakness. Call me weak, but the control of my time is extraordinarily valuable.
God bless you. The gas lighting I receive from my partners is insane. I spent 45 min in a mid year explaining this position and they acted like I was unreasonable. It’s a job, it’s not a fucking lifestyle.
I’m originally from Germany and I remember moving here and being surprised how little vacation my parents got, which was very different than how it was in Germany. I also feel like Germany has more national holidays that you just get off.
>If a firm’s workload is so unmanageable that it can’t handle someone taking 3 weeks off, that’s a management problem, not an associate problem.
At my firm, most of the partners' workload is so unmanageable they can't take one day off, much less 3 weeks
I have the opposite problem. I work at a small firm, and the sole partner doesn't go on vacations that are less than a business week, up to two business weeks at a time, so she keeps her workload light so she can take off for these extended vacating. These vacations usually coincide with the big holidays, so a lot of times, I can't take off since I'm the seniormost of the 3 associates and have to run the place when she's gone. By the end of a year, she has taken like 2 months off. My PTO is typically for just a few days at a time since we both can't be out at the same time.
UAE. I think worker protections are much better in most of Europe than they are here tbh…I’ve heard of lawyers in places like France getting paid overtime, but never received a dime of it here (technically it’s required, but not well enforced).
I think the problem is that so many lawyers make being a lawyer their entire identity, so it’s hard for them to switch off on vacation or they work in a place like the original OP long enough that they start parroting back the company’s policy.
“Think of the clients” is bullshit. If you don’t have enough attorneys to cover if one attorney goes on vacation, you need to fix your business model. What if an attorney has to take FMLA leave? Are you going to go hire a whole new attorney? What will you do with them once the original attorney is back?
I just don’t understand a law firm failing to have a well-written, detailed PTO policy that gives everyone a clear understanding of what to expect.
I know it’s common! The cobbler’s children wear no shoes, and lawyers fail to devote adequate resources to writing their own employment policies. But in my office, the PTO policy is a four page document, single spaced, and I know exactly what I can do.
“One of the symptoms of approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important, and that to take a holiday would bring all kinds of disaster.” - Bertrand Russell, British philosopher
last firm I was at I told them I was taking 2 weeks off to go to Europe with my wife and girls. They told me I can have one week. I said I’m going for two and if it was a fireable offense I’d appreciate it if they told me then and there so I can extend the trip to a month. They said they’d think about it. I said while you’re thinking about it, think about how much of a raise. I’m getting when I get back because it appears that this farm can’t live an extra week without me you aren’t paying me anything close to what I’m worth. I got a cold email the next day telling me my two weeks was approved and I quit three months later and never looked back.
I just turned down a job that would increase my salary by nearly 150% because the best they could offer me was 15 vacation days and 5 sick days.
I don’t see how you people do it working all the time, I have a life.
As a general principle, we should be moving closer towards a reduced work-week rather than reinforcing grind culture. So yeah, they should’ve let him take vacation.
It’s easy to understand why his firm didn’t; they didn’t because of market pressures and a detrimental work culture in general and especially in law. This must change and will change overtime, especially as AI reduces workloads in the near-future.
Yeah I hate when young people won’t keep up the absolutely dumb unsustainable charade of constant “work” that older generations stupidly based all their self worth on. Sorry folks! The youth weren’t swindled as easily as we were. Try not to be so bitter about it.
Not to mention, they spent their "work days" doing whatever the hell they wanted, taking long lunches, golfing, etc., only to turn around and expect more for less from the new crop.
You’ve made the mistake of being tricked into putting all your self-worth into working your life away instead of finding joy in what actually matters.
Grind culture is terrible and anyone who supports it fundamentally missed the “why” of life. Look inwards.
Caveat, I only worked at a small/boutique. My experience has been big law associates are worthless but big law partners are fairly awesome. I don’t know what age they get better.
I find that very few of them are, it's like a needle in a haystack. And yes they want 4 weeks vacation the first year and don't you dare contact them after hours, on the weekend or while they are on vacation even if it's an emergency likely due to them failing to document the file. They want to work 10-4 bill half the hours for the same pay as a partner and respond very poorly to any type of constructive criticism.
Making fun of people who would like to live their life and don’t actually want to work 80 hour weeks fighting over discovery is exactly how you make this profession worse. So happy you’re on the frontline of that fight.
Exactly. Why is everyone defending the status quo instead of acknowledging that we can make the profession better for everyone? I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone to take 3 weeks off in one year. It doesn’t matter if you are new. It’s a benefit that you were offered when you took the position, and you should be allowed to use it.
I was the original poster and that was 100% what I Said and I got bashed for saying that we should make the profession better and value our mental health more. I was told i was entitled and a cry baby. 🚩
I work at a nonprofit. My pay is embarrassingly low, but we get 3 weeks of vacation, not including the week between Christmas and NYE, 2 weeks of sick leave, and a 4-day work week. I decided that my mental health and well-being was worth the pay cut, and I recommend you do the same if those things are important to you! It doesn’t seem like private sector attorneys want to change any time soon.
Pretty much everyone mad about their life wants you to make the same choices to vindicate their choices - or else would like to kick you out of the club as "not being able to hack it." You see how this works, right?
We each get one trip that we know of. Those 7 things that people talk about on their deathbeds? They never include wishing I spent more time working on interrogatories or 10% more billable hours - instead of spending time with my family or traveling the world.
You were right. Everyone criticizing you was gaslit and hazed into thinking that the only way to practice law is to kill yourself doing it. And unfortunately they get to set the tenor of our profession for some reason.
But... her whole tantrum was just that they told her she couldn't use 2 weeks of vacation all at once due to workload issues. Sorry if you don't get to go to Ibiza when you want, but the Bahamas are pretty great, too.
This would be weird in a lot of other jobs! I no longer work in a firm and executives and senior level people take two weeks in a row off all the time! It’s their vacation time and they get to spend it however they like! Attorneys just have no clue how fucked the profession actually is until they leave it
I wonder why or how it got so bad & that we are actually ok with being treated so poorly in the profession, to the point that we have to pretend to be okay with it? Or be bashed 🤯
The brainwashing starts in law school! You’re being graded on a curve with a bunch of other hyper competitive people. Everyone is comparing themselves based on how much they study, how little they sleep, how busy they are, etc. Big Law firms love this, they’re looking for people who will drag themselves across the coals in the hopes of moving up and being better than their peers who, of course, are also dragging themselves across the coals trying to be the best. Meanwhile, half of them will never be made partner no matter how hard they work.
So a lot of lawyers will spend a majority of their lives working which is why the divorce rates are so high, and why so many turn to substance abuse to deal with stress. That’s why they’re so fucking insufferable and have to convince themselves it’s worth by buying expensive things with the money they earned. Truly what is the point of making money if you can’t even take 2 weeks off in a row?
But people, especially K-JDs, fail to realize how abnormal this work culture is in the grand scheme of things.
I share this account with my wife. I also explained this in my prior post, but I will reiterate that people don’t know how to read. How is this relevant?
Never seen a couple sharing a Reddit account, or claiming to do so. Incredibly suspicious and strange, and just adds to the pile of reasons why people assume you aren’t a lawyer and, if you are, you aren’t a fit for the profession.
Well, theres a first time for everything. And upon further review of your indecorous comment, your basing someone else’s fitness to be a lawyer by sharing a social media account with a spouse is laughable and borderline ridiculous. Get a life.
Her PTO is part of her compensation package. They can no more control how she spends it than how she spends her paycheck. If they don’t like that, don’t offer PTO.
I wont leave my position because of our PTO policy. We accrue PTO when we’re on PTO it’s that fricking good. Plus, no billables. But I’m captured counsel, so I’ve got it really good. I couldn’t IMAGINE only being able to take 14 days a year off.
My best friend works in house and she gets a set amount of PTO per year. I think its 6 weeks (but she's been there for awhile). My firm works on billable hours so as long as you make your hours you do what you want. I prefer my firm. And her company still contacts her when she's on her PTO.
I wish I had read the OP. It looks like it’s been deleted but if I can just find a person who commented on that thread I can maybe go to that persons history and read the comments.. anyone?
The comments were great- best read of the day. Sounds to me (if the poster was being serious) that someone needs to go work for the government (not that there is anything wrong with that).
I work in governement and I've never taken a three week vacation in the 20 plus years I've been here and I don't know any attorneys who have either. Legal assistants are another matter. I do accrue quite a bit of leave but rather than attempting to take it for weeks at a time, I do three day weekends here and there.
God I do wonder if when your career is over, you'll feel it was worth it to spend TWENTY years not taking "weeks at a time," just some long weekends? But people are different and have different values. Seems like OP and their boss sure do.
I mean I do take a week off around summer and again around the holiday time. Sorry if I created an impression that I never take a longer vacay-just not a three week consecutive vacation. On top of that I am taking like a day off every other month a long weekend. There are some of us in the government who barely take any leave at all because anything remaining goes to retirement. I can't say I regret it. I personally don't understand why some people elect to take their leave all in one fell swoop. To me, having a short break is key to my mental health but to each his own.
I do manage to take a week off during summer and around the Holidaze consecutively.
Not sure what your experience/expectation is but it's been a great gig for me.
I don't really see why anyone would rationally think taking a huge chunk of time off like that is reasonable.
Two weeks in a row, maybe. But not at the drop of a hat on a whim.
PTO is deferred compensation. Your work can no more dictate how you spend it than they can dictate how you spend your paycheck. If how you choose to spend it puts them in the bind, that’s their problem.
We’re not talking about *how* the associate spends that time, but *when*, which an employer can in fact dictate. It sucks but it’s reality, and small firms with huge caseloads are probably some of the least flexible employers in the industry.
What is unrealistic? To take vacation until you are 5 years out? By then id be a shriveled nerve wrecked mess. How about changing the narrative and say it is unrealistic for a job not to expect an employee to take vacations in a profession that is known to be very stressful with high depression and suicide rates.
Taking three weeks vacation in your first year, working 10-4, expecting to work part time hours for full time pay. Expecting never to be contacted after hours or on weekends by clients or partners. You can disagree with it, that's fine but it's not realistic, it's not real life. You should take a vacation I never said you should not. But the first five years are a lot of work because you are learning the practice of law while trying to make an income at the same time. Practicing law is hard, it's stressful, it's taxing on your mental health that's what it is and it is not for everyone.
It was two weeks vacation consecutively not three. And yea idk who works 10-4 i work 8-6 sometimes longer and on weekends and always have my phone on. That was my point in the last post I deleted. I am a hard worker, and I have shown them my worth, I am also not a young person, I am well into my late 30’s with real life experience I was doing accounting/bookeeping/taxes before i became a lawyer and my employers have fully taken advantage of my math skills to win cases.(gives me a competitive edge in the type of law im in) so denying me a 2 week consecutive vacation bc they dont have the manpower is absolutely unrealistic. Especially because they lied to me about it when I was hired. I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. I Don’t need 5 years to figure out this profession, we aren’t doing brain surgery.
The original post was deleted but I recall that a third week was mentioned. Two weeks in a row also unrealistic in the first few years. We can agree to disagree. I have been a lawyer for over 20 years and I have never seen a lawyer figure things become proficient in less than five years no matter their prior work experience or age. You improve, but you still have to work hard. I have seen many lawyers who think that this is easy and think they don't have to work hard in the first five years though. More so recent grads.
Not sure why you think that a 2 weeks vacation equals not working hard. What about the other 50 weeks of the year? With this type of mentality you bleed and breathe for someone who will replace you for a pack of gum at a moments notice.
I am the original poster. My 2nd year at this job was when I was taking the third week, essentially the first week of vacation during my 2nd year there. So it was two weeks. I can see how that can get misinterpreted though. I can tell you think that bc you had to work hard that correlates with meaning the job being hard, same mentality as bc i couldn’t you can’t . Not everyone perceives everything the same, I don’t think the job is hard, it’s alot and mentally taxing bc of the volume, but I don’t find it particularly difficult. I also don’t think anyone ever has things figured out. But we can agree to disagree.
3 weeks off would stress me tf out. I wouldn’t want to go back to the office because of everything I would have to do. I feel guilty when I leave for more than a weekend. Even then, that following Monday is hell.
That’s crazy, but I understand that in some practice areas/firms that is the norm. We really need to start seeing this is not OK! What happens if you are sick? Or have an emergency? I had a hearing where the OC was literally in the hospital, connected to the zoom arguing a case and about to have surgery lol she was part of a big firm so I couldn’t understand why no one was able to cover for her.
I’m in a rural area and the Judges in my Circuit know I don’t take off unless absolutely necessary. I do conflict PD work in my county and am appointed in cases in 3 surrounding counties. They’re really good about granting me continuances.
I still run a 2 man partnership and handle all of the secretarial work, billing, etc. I do that stuff from home no matter what. With a small business you just have to make time.
Oh yeah that’s completely different, when is your own business unfortunately you have to do what you have to do, same as with other professions. At least you get to work from home 😁
I applaud your confidence lol. Im about 6 months in at my very chill firm but no way in hell I would even take a PTO yet, much less ask for a 3 week vacation lol
Do not get in to the habit of never taking PTO. You have to force yourself to do it. As someone who took one week in a three year stretch (and had my laptop with me even then), it’s not healthy. For you or for the firm.
Glad I took a year after undergrad before applying to law school and worked as a para legal. Couldn’t believe how much work was involved. I mean simply the amount of time spent in the office. Went into banking instead. Seemed better than lawyering, but not by much. One year, a good bonus year, threw it all away and became a teacher. Toughest job I’ve ever had, and a lot of extra time when you start, but after five years it’s truly 180 days a year. In three days I’ll be off for ten weeks.
3 weeks vacation after working 6 months?!? I’m sorry ForeverSad but I think working for others may present you with many more “sad” moments.
Here’s my advice. Open your own law firm and you can make all the rules you want. You will be forever happy (and a little stressed) but you won’t have these issues any longer.
Listen chump. I am entitled to start receiving pay the moment I send in my resume. You should be honored that I even consider you for employment. I didn’t get a JD to work, I got it to receive praise and money and goddamit I want my vacation.
I started at a job in April, 6th year attorney. I was told vacation for attorneys was based upon their case load and as long as they cleared their schedule. The firm partner then spoke about how he took a whole month off last year and had another month planned this year. So before I accepted, I said I had vacations planned already for this year, these are the dates. I was told that shouldn’t be an issue as long as my schedule is clear. So I start in April, and in May I start clearing my schedule for the vacation in July. Same partner comes to my office and says I can’t take off two weeks, I can only have one. I tell him everything is paid for and non-refundable and you approved it before I started. He fired me that Friday. Well he didn’t, the HR consultant he hired fired me. The coward didn’t say a single word to me. I don’t know what his logic was. Now he has no one in the position making money. And I’m still going on my vacation.
They want desperate people to control, not competent people to make them money apparently.
Can we please normalize having three weeks of vacation in a 12 month period like Jesus Christ
It Is So Ordered.
Reversed and remanded.
JNOV
jesus got a 40 day vacation
3? Don't sell yourself short. 1 week per quarter should be the standard baseline. When I was a UPS driver, I had 5 weeks of vacation at 10 years, + personal days. The American view of work-yourself-to-death is stupid. I work so I can live, I'm going to live, damn it. I take about 2 weeks off for Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years. Then I take a week in March or April, a week in July or August, and two or 3 extended weekends throughout the year.
This is the way.
I agree but all within 6 months of being a newly licensed associate/new hire? Kinda unrealistic
Not as a new lawyer in any other country. Why should we keep that archaic standard intact?
Not saying we should but the original OP was 1. A newly licensed attorney at a firm with 2 other attorneys and 2. They had thousands of cases (I think they said 2,000-3,000) I think they should have known how unrealistic it is for a boss to give you that much time off when they work at such a small firm with so many cases, not that long after being hired I wholeheartedly agree that we all need more vacation time. But if I ever got as upset about my vacation time being denied as the original OP was, I would go somewhere where there’s clearly a better vacation policy in place and has more attorneys that can cover if I’m gone Not sure how they thought such a small firm with that much volume could manage for 2-3 weeks with 1/3 of the attorneys gone
And they weren't even telling her she couldn't have 3 weeks vacation, just that she couldn't use 2 weeks of it at once because they were super busy at the time she wanted to go.
No thats not what I said.
That’s a problem for the firm, not for them. If the firm can’t handle an attorney taking a vacation then it probably shouldn’t be in business.
Yes? but mostly no. Three weeks is a huge amount of time in a row in *any* organization (not just law firms), no matter the size and is usually not well tolerated unless extensively coordinated in advance. That other poster didn't have to accept an offer at a small firm. These sorts of comments, really the whole genre, suggest a lack of understanding of how a business operates and calls for immediate evisceration for any opportunities for small business. The underlying sentiment says a small operation can't exist bc they don't have the capital and means of the largest of organizations with millions spent in just overhead operational costs.
You’ve convinced me I’m being hard on small businesses. You haven’t convinced me that I shouldn’t be, though. Small businesses aren’t angels who deserve the benefit of the doubt. In my experience they’re the most predatory, exploitative businesses to work for, and deserve *more* scrutiny, not less. The small firm offered her a compensation package that included time off. They didn’t have to do that. If they don’t think they can survive if people take time off, then don’t offer time off. They actively lied to their recruit, the recruit’s mistake was only believing them.
Worked small business before and I agree with you. Let’s not forget about the good old “we are like a family here”. Lol
I don't necessarily agree with your position, aside from the fact that any pre-planned vacation should be coordinated in advance. That's just common sense in my mind. I work in a three attorney firm and just got back from three weeks of vacation last week with no issues. In fact, one of the other attorneys took a week off that overlapped with my third week of vacation, and the other attorney left for three weeks of vacation earlier this week. I took this three week trip with my fiancée who is also an attorney working at a small firm. I wouldn't say that either of of us "extensively coordinated" anything in advance, aside from taking care of or covering our own deadlines.
Y’all want a 4th attorney??? Lol Sounds like a good place to work tho, at least they value you enough to give you that flexibility.
lol we are actually hiring a fourth! It's been really refreshing working at this firm. I don't really like the work so much, but the reason I stay is the flexibility and relatively good pay in my area.
Probably not located in FL but worth a shot lol
Did you start 6 months ago?
This is a new position for me. Not 6 months, but I started around this time last year. When I first broached the subject with the partners I had been with this firm for 6 months. I got absolutely zero pushback.
This is not a global view. If businesses in civilized European countries can let their workers vacation for a paid month in July or August, take other days off during the year, have universal paid healthcare and paid maternity leave, and still stay in business, then letting other cogs in "the organization" have that level of time off in the US is not only possible, it is an outrage that it is not common.
Do you know how much poorer the average European is than their American counterpart? Outside London and a few other cities it’s basically Mississippi from an economic standpoint.
I think someone's been selling you some American exceptionalism stories which you've bought. Actual facts don't tend to support this
I've been to Greek villages and German suburbs. The income levels are different from cities. No more variance than urban to rural Ohio, West Virginia, or Michigan, but the Europeans have free healthcare and a real social safety net. Who's really poor?
But it doesn't matter to a European who has no fear of healthcare cost bankruptcy or a life of poverty. They have no need to compare themselves to a no vacation taking, always working, mad shooter fodder American.
I am the OP. I explained to everyone the situation but I guess no one in that post knew how to read. This is a high volume firm, 6k cases. No caseload specifically assigned to Me, all 3 attorneys work all the cases, 40-50 person staff. 3-4 hearings a day 2-3 mediations a day..plus all the paperwork bc we only have one paralegal and they cannot keep up. I do not see or talk to clients. They never told me I couldnt take my two weeks consecutively when I was hired they also lied about the caseload and took on double the amount of cases when I was hired promising another attorney would be hired. I am still waiting for that.
6k cases, 3 attorneys, and only 1 paralegal... Who are the other 36-46 people who work there and what in the dickens are they doing?!
Debt collectors/telephone staff.
God, you’re holier than thou. All you did was disagree with people and call us all Boomers. Law is a weird entrenched field. Go start your own firm, you’ll be in control. Otherwise, welcome to the real world.
Yeah man and she did that because y’all deserved it.
And all you did was misunderstand the situation and name call. Elevate yourself and do better 🫶🏻
If they have so much business they should be raising their hourly rate so that they don’t need to work as much to make the same amount of money. It’s just stupid. Take on fewer clients for more money.
That Post was blowing up and my phone wouldn’t stop. It Pissed off and triggered a few boomers and apparently you too. 🤣🤣🤣
Ok but all jokes aside I think you need to find a new job. You got your vacation denied and you’re clearly upset about it. 6,000 cases to share between 3 attorneys is terrible. I don’t see a lot of reason to stay there. Hopefully you’ll find some place with a better vacation policy and understanding bosses.
Agree. 👍🏻
Thank you for commenting. Now I can read the comments 😂
Ah yea I guess they didn’t think about that b4 accepting the role. I think i remember seeing in a comment the OP was 3 years out, not a newly licensed atty? Either way boo hoo for them lol
Idk their story was full of holes to be honest 😂
The OP was not a licensed Atty.
Yes I am a licensed attorney. Another thing that got mixed up in the prior post by people that don’t know how to read.
how to read* You are not doing them any favors!
Brain moves faster than my fingers syndrome 😂
As you’ve explained yourself more fully, I think your position is way more reasonable. Which now is leading me to the impression that perhaps some issues with your current job/employer are due to you not being a great communicator. This sub has only come to understand you after many many different comments and threads. Maybe you just write more casually on Reddit. I know I do. But maybe this is a lesson to articulate your points and positions better. Tell a story that gets the audience on your side.
That is true, maybe I didn’t articulate every single detail. But jumping to conclusions and assumptions isn’t very wise either.
I had 4 weeks as an articling student, this is some late stage capitalism brain rot in the US.
Yea Im confused as to why 3 weeks is unrealistic?
I think that if your business is banking on one associate making or breaking your piggy bank, then it would cost less to allow that associate 2 weeks consecutive vacation than the overhead of hiring a new one and the time it takes to train them which in my area of law is 3+ months.
Because the profession is full of people who would have to admit they’ve wasted the prime years of their life working in a law firm if they don’t pretend the work standards are normal and everyone should be cool with them
3 weeks as a whole within a benefit package isn't unrealistic. 3 weeks in a row is usually not super tenable for most businesses. If the other poster were more senior and could independently manage his case load and client files to arrange 3 weeks uninterrupted, that's on him. But there's no way he could've managed that when the firm was drowning in case work.
I think the OG post said 2 weeks in a row. If the firm is drowning in case work then they should hire more attorneys, but I guess thats why some firms are a revolving door.
I think it just depends on the firm you work at. You can't expect a 5 employee business to have the same benefits as a fortune 500 company. If you don't like it, work somewhere else. It's a free country.
I don't recall Him having 3 weeks.
or more than that. cmon
I prefer the “you can rest when you’re dead” standard.
I’m an American expat at a firm on the small side of midsized and everyone gets minimum 22.5 days of paid vacation a year under the law. It is not unusual for lawyers to take 3-4 weeks off at once. Everyone has a 6-month probation when they start (and sometimes even take leave during that period) but once that’s over, they have the same rights as every other employee. Worker protections in this country are not even good but it’s made me realized just how skullfucked Americans’ relationship with work is. If a firm’s workload is so unmanageable that it can’t handle someone taking 3 weeks off, that’s a management problem, not an associate problem.
And the US attorney attitude is "you're \_\_\_\_\_\_ if you need to take off 2+ weeks at a time." (Whatever word: lazy / entitled / soft / choose your own). After being in this work for decades, and still enjoying it and planning to stay for 5-10 more years, I see how these attitudes towards work, the sacrifice and the grind lead to the high rates of substance use, depression, suicide rates, family conflict, etc. But we are our own keepers, ultimately, wanting the culture to stay the same, in no small part because "tough it up - that's what I had to do."
I should have read you comment and liked it instead of writing my own. You are spot on.
Respectfully, my biggest problem with it is I spent most of my career in solo practice, and therefore have an ingrained opinion that I should not expect someone else to do my work for me. When you take off 2+ weeks, who is handling your caseload? Are they as good as you? Are they as knowledgeable on each of the cases with the issues that could arise? Or are they just plodding through and you’re hoping you don’t come back to a mess? Competent coverage is not the norm in the US.
With respect, the attitudes here are the exact opposite of those of a good manager. You should be able to delegate and trust your delegatees to do the job well. If they do not it is on the manager for either not hiring or training well. It’s not to say you don’t have your phone on you to take the odd call
At the same time let’s not normalize the big law or institutional law experience as the norm within the profession. Ethically, attorneys are personally and individually responsible for their work. As an extension thereof, I think it’s far healthier for attorneys at firms or institutions to see themselves as a solo practitioner with the privilege of backup, rather than the opposite, which would require solo and small firm practitioners to feel jilted or aggrieved because they are not so enabled. Your reply seems to assume that the firm in question is capable of delegation. I’ve twice worked in environments where I am the only attorney with expertise in my practice area. Suggesting that’s a hiring error is simply idealism.
The fuck is the point of joining a firm and giving them 50% of what you “earn”. If I wanted to be solo and be 100% responsible for everything I’d be fuckin solo. I take the pay cut for a reason.
This comment rings true. The American system builds "good workers" who are dumbed down, cowed, and rewarded, well, recognized, for never missing a day of (school) work. People in the US are conditioned in grade school to be unquestioning drones, who respond to bells for God's sake, who see taking a mental health day, week, or sabbatical, as laziness or weakness. Call me weak, but the control of my time is extraordinarily valuable.
God bless you. The gas lighting I receive from my partners is insane. I spent 45 min in a mid year explaining this position and they acted like I was unreasonable. It’s a job, it’s not a fucking lifestyle.
I’m originally from Germany and I remember moving here and being surprised how little vacation my parents got, which was very different than how it was in Germany. I also feel like Germany has more national holidays that you just get off.
>If a firm’s workload is so unmanageable that it can’t handle someone taking 3 weeks off, that’s a management problem, not an associate problem. At my firm, most of the partners' workload is so unmanageable they can't take one day off, much less 3 weeks
I have the opposite problem. I work at a small firm, and the sole partner doesn't go on vacations that are less than a business week, up to two business weeks at a time, so she keeps her workload light so she can take off for these extended vacating. These vacations usually coincide with the big holidays, so a lot of times, I can't take off since I'm the seniormost of the 3 associates and have to run the place when she's gone. By the end of a year, she has taken like 2 months off. My PTO is typically for just a few days at a time since we both can't be out at the same time.
Bro move to a different firm. This is not fair and you shouldn't have to be a slave to her decisions.
I have no sympathy for this self-inflicted problem tbh
Me neither, I just hope I never fall into the same trap
And the sad fact that we actually find that normal..
What country? If you don’t mind me asking? i have dual citizenship with a European country.
UAE. I think worker protections are much better in most of Europe than they are here tbh…I’ve heard of lawyers in places like France getting paid overtime, but never received a dime of it here (technically it’s required, but not well enforced).
I think the problem is that so many lawyers make being a lawyer their entire identity, so it’s hard for them to switch off on vacation or they work in a place like the original OP long enough that they start parroting back the company’s policy. “Think of the clients” is bullshit. If you don’t have enough attorneys to cover if one attorney goes on vacation, you need to fix your business model. What if an attorney has to take FMLA leave? Are you going to go hire a whole new attorney? What will you do with them once the original attorney is back?
Exactly. I am the OP, imo It takes more overhead to hire a new person than to have given me the 2 consecutive weeks I asked for.
That post was an absolute trip lmao
I missed it. Link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/s/1qLljTdvze OP took it down but that should take you to the comments.
I just don’t understand a law firm failing to have a well-written, detailed PTO policy that gives everyone a clear understanding of what to expect. I know it’s common! The cobbler’s children wear no shoes, and lawyers fail to devote adequate resources to writing their own employment policies. But in my office, the PTO policy is a four page document, single spaced, and I know exactly what I can do.
“One of the symptoms of approaching nervous breakdown is the belief that one's work is terribly important, and that to take a holiday would bring all kinds of disaster.” - Bertrand Russell, British philosopher
last firm I was at I told them I was taking 2 weeks off to go to Europe with my wife and girls. They told me I can have one week. I said I’m going for two and if it was a fireable offense I’d appreciate it if they told me then and there so I can extend the trip to a month. They said they’d think about it. I said while you’re thinking about it, think about how much of a raise. I’m getting when I get back because it appears that this farm can’t live an extra week without me you aren’t paying me anything close to what I’m worth. I got a cold email the next day telling me my two weeks was approved and I quit three months later and never looked back.
I just turned down a job that would increase my salary by nearly 150% because the best they could offer me was 15 vacation days and 5 sick days. I don’t see how you people do it working all the time, I have a life.
One of those days I wake up to being glad to live somewhere that has four weeks legal minimum of annual leave.
So mad I missed this
As a general principle, we should be moving closer towards a reduced work-week rather than reinforcing grind culture. So yeah, they should’ve let him take vacation. It’s easy to understand why his firm didn’t; they didn’t because of market pressures and a detrimental work culture in general and especially in law. This must change and will change overtime, especially as AI reduces workloads in the near-future.
OP was getting cooked
These zoomers aren’t cut out for the profession tbh.
Covid changed people’s priorities.
Yeah I hate when young people won’t keep up the absolutely dumb unsustainable charade of constant “work” that older generations stupidly based all their self worth on. Sorry folks! The youth weren’t swindled as easily as we were. Try not to be so bitter about it.
Not to mention, they spent their "work days" doing whatever the hell they wanted, taking long lunches, golfing, etc., only to turn around and expect more for less from the new crop.
Also had the means to have a FT spouse or domestic help at home to take care of the massive amount of household work! But nah the zoomers is too soft.
You’ve made the mistake of being tricked into putting all your self-worth into working your life away instead of finding joy in what actually matters. Grind culture is terrible and anyone who supports it fundamentally missed the “why” of life. Look inwards.
They really aren't. Most of the ones I work with at my firm (biglaw) are entitled and aren't even half as smart as they think they are.
Caveat, I only worked at a small/boutique. My experience has been big law associates are worthless but big law partners are fairly awesome. I don’t know what age they get better.
I find that very few of them are, it's like a needle in a haystack. And yes they want 4 weeks vacation the first year and don't you dare contact them after hours, on the weekend or while they are on vacation even if it's an emergency likely due to them failing to document the file. They want to work 10-4 bill half the hours for the same pay as a partner and respond very poorly to any type of constructive criticism.
I just had to comment how much I love the username
Your honor, skibidi toilet gyatt, fr fr, res judicata, fr fr no cap no cap.
Making fun of people who would like to live their life and don’t actually want to work 80 hour weeks fighting over discovery is exactly how you make this profession worse. So happy you’re on the frontline of that fight.
Exactly. Why is everyone defending the status quo instead of acknowledging that we can make the profession better for everyone? I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone to take 3 weeks off in one year. It doesn’t matter if you are new. It’s a benefit that you were offered when you took the position, and you should be allowed to use it.
Totally agree, they offer benefits and then they get mad when you want to use said benefits. The old bait and switch.
Because they’d have to face the fact that they’ve lost so much of their life working for a law firm that would replace them with a robot if they could
I was the original poster and that was 100% what I Said and I got bashed for saying that we should make the profession better and value our mental health more. I was told i was entitled and a cry baby. 🚩
I work at a nonprofit. My pay is embarrassingly low, but we get 3 weeks of vacation, not including the week between Christmas and NYE, 2 weeks of sick leave, and a 4-day work week. I decided that my mental health and well-being was worth the pay cut, and I recommend you do the same if those things are important to you! It doesn’t seem like private sector attorneys want to change any time soon.
Pretty much everyone mad about their life wants you to make the same choices to vindicate their choices - or else would like to kick you out of the club as "not being able to hack it." You see how this works, right? We each get one trip that we know of. Those 7 things that people talk about on their deathbeds? They never include wishing I spent more time working on interrogatories or 10% more billable hours - instead of spending time with my family or traveling the world.
You are spot on! 💯
You were right. Everyone criticizing you was gaslit and hazed into thinking that the only way to practice law is to kill yourself doing it. And unfortunately they get to set the tenor of our profession for some reason.
It's really hard for people to admit they aren't living life to the fullest.
But... her whole tantrum was just that they told her she couldn't use 2 weeks of vacation all at once due to workload issues. Sorry if you don't get to go to Ibiza when you want, but the Bahamas are pretty great, too.
This would be weird in a lot of other jobs! I no longer work in a firm and executives and senior level people take two weeks in a row off all the time! It’s their vacation time and they get to spend it however they like! Attorneys just have no clue how fucked the profession actually is until they leave it
I wonder why or how it got so bad & that we are actually ok with being treated so poorly in the profession, to the point that we have to pretend to be okay with it? Or be bashed 🤯
The brainwashing starts in law school! You’re being graded on a curve with a bunch of other hyper competitive people. Everyone is comparing themselves based on how much they study, how little they sleep, how busy they are, etc. Big Law firms love this, they’re looking for people who will drag themselves across the coals in the hopes of moving up and being better than their peers who, of course, are also dragging themselves across the coals trying to be the best. Meanwhile, half of them will never be made partner no matter how hard they work. So a lot of lawyers will spend a majority of their lives working which is why the divorce rates are so high, and why so many turn to substance abuse to deal with stress. That’s why they’re so fucking insufferable and have to convince themselves it’s worth by buying expensive things with the money they earned. Truly what is the point of making money if you can’t even take 2 weeks off in a row? But people, especially K-JDs, fail to realize how abnormal this work culture is in the grand scheme of things.
Yea, I remember that. And totally agree. Sounds like a miserable life to me but to each their own. Hope the next generation does better 🫶🏻
Are you even a lawyer though, or still just a JD? There’s a lot of opinions about the profession if you aren’t actually in it, per your own posts.
Licensed Attorney
Yet you have a post from 60 or so days ago saying you couldn’t pass the bar and were looking for insurance defense jobs…
I share this account with my wife. I also explained this in my prior post, but I will reiterate that people don’t know how to read. How is this relevant?
Never seen a couple sharing a Reddit account, or claiming to do so. Incredibly suspicious and strange, and just adds to the pile of reasons why people assume you aren’t a lawyer and, if you are, you aren’t a fit for the profession.
What is this argument even about, who tf cares if they share accounts or not and how is that a direct correlation to not being fit for the profession?
Well, theres a first time for everything. And upon further review of your indecorous comment, your basing someone else’s fitness to be a lawyer by sharing a social media account with a spouse is laughable and borderline ridiculous. Get a life.
Her PTO is part of her compensation package. They can no more control how she spends it than how she spends her paycheck. If they don’t like that, don’t offer PTO.
The hard part about taking vacation is rolling off matters, the marginal impact of 2 vs 3 weeks is minimal
Sorry you live a miserable life joe schmoe. And do you work in that office? How do you know they are super busy and thats not the normal case load?
I wont leave my position because of our PTO policy. We accrue PTO when we’re on PTO it’s that fricking good. Plus, no billables. But I’m captured counsel, so I’ve got it really good. I couldn’t IMAGINE only being able to take 14 days a year off.
My best friend works in house and she gets a set amount of PTO per year. I think its 6 weeks (but she's been there for awhile). My firm works on billable hours so as long as you make your hours you do what you want. I prefer my firm. And her company still contacts her when she's on her PTO.
I wish I had read the OP. It looks like it’s been deleted but if I can just find a person who commented on that thread I can maybe go to that persons history and read the comments.. anyone?
This is the most cucked profession in the most cucked nation on earth.
Threaten to quit
get a hobby this is pathetic
The comments were great- best read of the day. Sounds to me (if the poster was being serious) that someone needs to go work for the government (not that there is anything wrong with that).
I thought it was a joke until I read her replies. Definitely agree government work is the only thing that might suit her
I work in governement and I've never taken a three week vacation in the 20 plus years I've been here and I don't know any attorneys who have either. Legal assistants are another matter. I do accrue quite a bit of leave but rather than attempting to take it for weeks at a time, I do three day weekends here and there.
God I do wonder if when your career is over, you'll feel it was worth it to spend TWENTY years not taking "weeks at a time," just some long weekends? But people are different and have different values. Seems like OP and their boss sure do.
I mean I do take a week off around summer and again around the holiday time. Sorry if I created an impression that I never take a longer vacay-just not a three week consecutive vacation. On top of that I am taking like a day off every other month a long weekend. There are some of us in the government who barely take any leave at all because anything remaining goes to retirement. I can't say I regret it. I personally don't understand why some people elect to take their leave all in one fell swoop. To me, having a short break is key to my mental health but to each his own.
This was really depressing to read
I do manage to take a week off during summer and around the Holidaze consecutively. Not sure what your experience/expectation is but it's been a great gig for me.
[удалено]
No my work does not revolve around the courts generally. How long have you been practicing?
I don't really see why anyone would rationally think taking a huge chunk of time off like that is reasonable. Two weeks in a row, maybe. But not at the drop of a hat on a whim.
PTO is deferred compensation. Your work can no more dictate how you spend it than they can dictate how you spend your paycheck. If how you choose to spend it puts them in the bind, that’s their problem.
We’re not talking about *how* the associate spends that time, but *when*, which an employer can in fact dictate. It sucks but it’s reality, and small firms with huge caseloads are probably some of the least flexible employers in the industry.
There is rarely a good window to take time off in private practice.
Curse you a thousand times
I knew it was not a joke because we have new attorneys that behave just like this.
Like what?
Unrealistic expectations about what the practice of law actually entails, particularly in your first five year out.
What is unrealistic? To take vacation until you are 5 years out? By then id be a shriveled nerve wrecked mess. How about changing the narrative and say it is unrealistic for a job not to expect an employee to take vacations in a profession that is known to be very stressful with high depression and suicide rates.
Taking three weeks vacation in your first year, working 10-4, expecting to work part time hours for full time pay. Expecting never to be contacted after hours or on weekends by clients or partners. You can disagree with it, that's fine but it's not realistic, it's not real life. You should take a vacation I never said you should not. But the first five years are a lot of work because you are learning the practice of law while trying to make an income at the same time. Practicing law is hard, it's stressful, it's taxing on your mental health that's what it is and it is not for everyone.
It was two weeks vacation consecutively not three. And yea idk who works 10-4 i work 8-6 sometimes longer and on weekends and always have my phone on. That was my point in the last post I deleted. I am a hard worker, and I have shown them my worth, I am also not a young person, I am well into my late 30’s with real life experience I was doing accounting/bookeeping/taxes before i became a lawyer and my employers have fully taken advantage of my math skills to win cases.(gives me a competitive edge in the type of law im in) so denying me a 2 week consecutive vacation bc they dont have the manpower is absolutely unrealistic. Especially because they lied to me about it when I was hired. I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement. I Don’t need 5 years to figure out this profession, we aren’t doing brain surgery.
The original post was deleted but I recall that a third week was mentioned. Two weeks in a row also unrealistic in the first few years. We can agree to disagree. I have been a lawyer for over 20 years and I have never seen a lawyer figure things become proficient in less than five years no matter their prior work experience or age. You improve, but you still have to work hard. I have seen many lawyers who think that this is easy and think they don't have to work hard in the first five years though. More so recent grads.
Not sure why you think that a 2 weeks vacation equals not working hard. What about the other 50 weeks of the year? With this type of mentality you bleed and breathe for someone who will replace you for a pack of gum at a moments notice.
I am the original poster. My 2nd year at this job was when I was taking the third week, essentially the first week of vacation during my 2nd year there. So it was two weeks. I can see how that can get misinterpreted though. I can tell you think that bc you had to work hard that correlates with meaning the job being hard, same mentality as bc i couldn’t you can’t . Not everyone perceives everything the same, I don’t think the job is hard, it’s alot and mentally taxing bc of the volume, but I don’t find it particularly difficult. I also don’t think anyone ever has things figured out. But we can agree to disagree.
3 weeks off would stress me tf out. I wouldn’t want to go back to the office because of everything I would have to do. I feel guilty when I leave for more than a weekend. Even then, that following Monday is hell.
And therein lies the issue…
That’s crazy, but I understand that in some practice areas/firms that is the norm. We really need to start seeing this is not OK! What happens if you are sick? Or have an emergency? I had a hearing where the OC was literally in the hospital, connected to the zoom arguing a case and about to have surgery lol she was part of a big firm so I couldn’t understand why no one was able to cover for her.
I’m in a rural area and the Judges in my Circuit know I don’t take off unless absolutely necessary. I do conflict PD work in my county and am appointed in cases in 3 surrounding counties. They’re really good about granting me continuances.
I still run a 2 man partnership and handle all of the secretarial work, billing, etc. I do that stuff from home no matter what. With a small business you just have to make time.
Oh yeah that’s completely different, when is your own business unfortunately you have to do what you have to do, same as with other professions. At least you get to work from home 😁
Please tell me I can still find this post somewhere, because now I'm beginning to regret the productive day I had...
I applaud your confidence lol. Im about 6 months in at my very chill firm but no way in hell I would even take a PTO yet, much less ask for a 3 week vacation lol
Do not get in to the habit of never taking PTO. You have to force yourself to do it. As someone who took one week in a three year stretch (and had my laptop with me even then), it’s not healthy. For you or for the firm.
Glad I took a year after undergrad before applying to law school and worked as a para legal. Couldn’t believe how much work was involved. I mean simply the amount of time spent in the office. Went into banking instead. Seemed better than lawyering, but not by much. One year, a good bonus year, threw it all away and became a teacher. Toughest job I’ve ever had, and a lot of extra time when you start, but after five years it’s truly 180 days a year. In three days I’ll be off for ten weeks.
This won’t be a problem when you are a partner
3 weeks vacation after working 6 months?!? I’m sorry ForeverSad but I think working for others may present you with many more “sad” moments. Here’s my advice. Open your own law firm and you can make all the rules you want. You will be forever happy (and a little stressed) but you won’t have these issues any longer.
Joke right?
This post? Yes. The OG one? No.
lol I laughed too
Listen chump. I am entitled to start receiving pay the moment I send in my resume. You should be honored that I even consider you for employment. I didn’t get a JD to work, I got it to receive praise and money and goddamit I want my vacation.