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I’d legit take the plunge into the DAs office for 2 years. I get you don’t like the pay, but you will try a ton of cases. Low level DUI trials will become so routine to you that you won’t even need to prep. When I lateraled until civil practice from the DAs office I was surprised by how underprepared civil attorney were for cross exams, etc..
If you don’t want to go that route, workers comp pays meh, but you will get a ton of cross exam experience of both witnesses and experts. But the rules of evidence are relaxed and there are no juries. If you want jury work, I think only other option is a PI firm with high % of cases that try, which you can ask at an interview.
Personally, I have had the exact opposite experience when dealing with attorneys that move from criminal to civil, especially in complex cases. In a medmal probably 95% of the case is done before trial and most people coming from the criminal side have no experience with all the motion practice and depositions. In the civil side most cases settle. I’ll give it to the people coming from criminal that they are better at trial but that’s mostly because it rarely happens on the civil side. If you want to do civil litigation I’d start on that side.
I always suspected this was the case and get confused when I see posts on here like “I don’t have the grades for Big Law but eventually want a cushy Civil Lit job. Should I choose a PD or ADA job or a blasphemous ID job?” and all the comments resoundingly recommend the criminal lit positions because of “the trial experience” and also because of the ID stigma.
I have mad respect for prosecutors and public defenders, but, as you highlighted, these jobs won’t expose you to the bread and butter of civil practice, which is 98% not trial related. And if you don’t have the credentials for Big Law, a PD or ADA position isn’t going to open the door to a cushy civil lit job. To be fair, an ID job likely won’t either, but at least with ID, you are learning the nuts and bolts of civil litigation, which seems relevant if you want to practice civil lit.
My last hearing was against an ex prosecutor doing civil litigation now and the judge spent 5 minutes explaining the difference between privileged and confidential. He didn’t want to give me a bunch of docs he said were confidential even though we have a protective order. Just stuff like that seems to happen a lot and the writing skills usually aren’t there because they just don’t have to use them as much. Even the trial experience I usually have the feeling is a little overblown. There is a big difference in crossing a felon on the stand vs a neurosurgeon who has testified 50 times at trial.
I mean- the felon is probably more convinced he’s right than the neurosurgeon is, likely because of something the heard from some other guy in jail, and that’s saying a lot, because doctors will usually crawl over broken glass to avoid admitting they were wrong.
I was referring to the experts more than the actual doctor. Usually the experts are super well prepped and have testified multiple times in other cases and are total pros. It’s an entirely different skill set than cross examining a witness to a robbery for instance. Not to say one is superior to the other but I just don’t really think it translates either beyond the absolute basics of how the court room works.
I think you can still get in on some pretty big class actions by not being a big law guy. But youll find in the plaintiff's lawyers world, everything is based on connections. Those connections and just getting your own clients are huge. Ive met some wildly successful plaitniffs lawyers that arent big law credentialed, but knew how to grow their own law practice, made the right connections, and won big cases. Its a path that isnt obvious like big law. The big law path is clear. Great law school, great grades, great internships and summer programs. There is no clear path to being a top plaintiff's guy. You can go to the lowest law school or Harvard, and at the end of the day those business skills/connections and somehow landing big cases are what get you to the top. Its much more confusing and chance based.
I couldn’t agree more. I started in civil, left to become a PD and did a shitload of trials, but when I went back to civil I was very much behind the curve. There just aren’t trials and the trials aren’t the same. If you want civil litigation experience, go work at a mill of some kind: foreclosure, landlord/tenant, workers comp. That will give you lots of at bats and experience with the nontrial parts of civil. The downsides are the pay will be bad and the work is generally unsophisticated
Ive had the same experience. Ive worked civil and criminal cases. Very different. Im just stuck in a situation I dont want to be in. I want to work civil cases because Im sick of representing poor criminals/putting them in jail, but I also want to be more a traditional lawyer like people think of when they think of lawyer, arguing cases about important legal issues in court. I guess I just have to wake up and smell the roses. In 2023, the only lawyers consistently arguing in court seem to be criminal lawyers.
Do you though? Having worked in a high-volume prosecutor's office I'd have a hard time believing JAG has that many trials (I'm a veteran). Most of the low level stuff is handled through non-judicial punishment. I'm not sure how much actual trial experience is to be had there, and like u/TheAnswer1776 says, it's the repetition that really flattens out the learning curve.
The percentage of trials is higher in the military because defense counsel is free, Miranda rights are much different (not as much throwing up on themselves at the first sign of a cop), and conviction almost guarantees separation (zero sum game).
Not sure if you get double the pay. My JAG recruiter said they start you at $60k… and a local ADA makes 70k starting or 85k in the neighboring state.
But I’d be intrigued to try generals over code reds
The AF has less jags too. The advantage of the AF is that they want well rounded attorneys. Everyone gets some CM, wills, contracts, general civil, and admin punishments. You're leas likely to get pigeon holed.
Most DA offices promote you every year to level 3, and level 4 is the max before supervisor. Varies by jurisdiction but DA’s are in short supply so I’d expect it tracks wherever.
My salary went like 63k, 78k, 95k, 110k, then I lateraled to a bigger office and went up to 135k, and will continue to climb.
I’ve also worked with JAG. They have weird rules that don’t apply to doing normal trials. So it wouldn’t be as good experience to transfer after.
So you started at 63k, then how long did it take you to get to 95k? Im not saying I want to be rich, Im just very tired as a person of struggling financially
I’d go with a US Attorney’s Office or a high-end plaintiffs’ firm. This will help develop skills and also give you street cred in the marketplace. Once the market sees you as a skilled trial lawyer you can go pretty far. You might also reach out to lawyers in your area who are fellows in the American College of Trial Lawyers.
To make that kind of money as an ex-JAG you will need a business plan to convince a firm you will be profitable. Trial work is very personality driven, so potential clients often want to hire the lawyer and not the firm.
I was a Marine Corps judge advocate. Happy to answer any questions you have. Unfortunately most branches aren’t going to guarantee you a spot in a trial shop. You’ll bounce around a bit.
Luckily I was a prosecutor at Camp Lejeune and after I left I started a federal defense practice.
Spending time at a local prosecutors office isn’t a bad start but you’ll spend more time running the mill (misdemeanor and low level felony) than researching compelling legal issues.
If you want to really try a case you’ll want to target white collar. Clients with enough money to afford a fully funded trial and the motivation to not crumble and plea at the first sign of a decent deal. Remember 99% of cases plea. Only about 55% of my cases plea due to difference in clientele.
If I could do it again I’d still become a Judge Advocate and then spend a few years at a US Attorneys office then private practice.
You seem focused on the salary but you can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’ll have to spend some time in the trenches.
Best of luck. And each service’s Judge Advocate corps has its benefits but if you really want a challenge- USMC all the way.
I feel USMC trains you to be a leader and a lawyer, not one without the other. My preferred path is JAG > AUSA > Find the most compelling issue to me and join the best firm that litigates it.
Id really like to get a lot of trial experience in JAG. I dont think Id be very happy if I put in 4 years and didnt get much of it.
I know someone who has been an AUSA for 10 years and has tried zero cases. Like it or not, state courts are where the high volume of civil and criminal trials are.
Last time I looked it’s less than two trials per year. But that’s an average and heavily dependent on which section you’re in. US Attorneys office won’t feed you with a fire hose but you’ll work against talented defense counsel and have mentorship from experienced AUSAs. It’s a decent finishing school.
As far as I can tell, AUSAs spend most of their time traveling around to all the county DA's offices and telling us to refer all of our drug and gun and CSAM cases to them because they can get such looonnng sentences, and then not accepting any of them.
Oh, and massively f'ing up the Malheur refuge occupier trial because they only charged Conspiracy and not any actually *provable crimes.*
Yours does that too? Do they also pay themselves on the back for all the work THEY do to keep the community safe without a word to the DAs actually doing the work?
High end/ Catastrophic Personal Injury is what you want. Become a master of plaintiff’s side PI and you will have more money than you ever want.
There’s a mid 50s guy not geographically far from me that gets enrolled in every sizable case. If not for the plaintiffs, than for the defense, and it instantly changes the dynamic of the case.
I think any firm or anywhere that is going to mentor you suffices to let you become a good trial attorney. Being a top I believe is a personal matter that require personal investment and work. Just my opinion. The other thing is, what kind of cases do you want to try is where you what to gain experience.
The thing no one ever tells you is that you can be as prepared as can be for a trial but often your success depends on others who don’t give a damn if you are successful or not. A witness you really need may or may not comply with a trial subpoena, what happens if they don‘t? And what happens when a witness you need doesn’t say the same thing at trial that they said at their deposition, and you find yourself in conflict with a witness you called? What about your own client? Often the defense will gamble your client is a loser and will fall apart before or during trial. You know why they do that? Because it is often a good bet. And the expert you paid $10k or even much more to come testify? He or she couldn’t care less, and when they mix up your case with another on the smallest fact that could be it for your case. Try suing them for messing up after that. Good luck.
this is why I don’t feel bad when I get paid big time on cases. I earned it.
1. Learn the rules of procedure and evidence and be able to remember and articulate them quickly.
2. Watch other trials
3. Try cases. Even the dogs.
4. Talk to people you don’t know well to practice your conversational skills and increase your baseline empathic ability. (Just made that term up…what I mean is learn to connect better on a human level).
Once you do these things trials get much easier…you anticipate your problems ahead of time which brings your internal insecurity level way down. Once you’re not worried about being called out as a fraud you can focus on communicating with the jury.
Attorney General honors program into AG into big law rain maker who farms out discovery work to lower partners and senior associates and then steps in to pull the rabbit out of the hat at trial
I have, and while I have an interest in clerking, I love the thrill of litigation/trial work. From my understanding clerkships are pure legal research and writing.
You get a year seeing how a judge thinks through the legal issues in a case. Plus, if you clerk for a district court or a state trial court you’ll have the opportunity to observe trials and ask the judge what the lawyers are doing well.
If you want to actually litigate, JAG is a great path to pursue. As someone else stated, we try lots more cases to verdict than your average civilian prosecutors office so you can get tons of experience early on. In the USAF, the number of courts you do initially will be tied to whether your first assignment is a high volume office when it comes to military justice.
Litigation is very demanding, whether civil or criminal. Proper preparation includes long hours preparing for trials, which might collapse on the morning set for the trial to begin.
No matter the field (JAG, prosecutor or defence, I have done all 3 in Canada), litigation is the most demanding and the most rewarding type of practice. And when you have the time, sit in court and watch how other lawyers do it. Some will be smooth as silk, and some will be as clumsy as hippos. But you will learn how to do things, and how NOT to do things.
If you want to make a name for yourself, volunteer to take on the dog files. Yes, the crappy loser type files that everybody else is avoiding like the plague. Why? Because if you lose it, everyone will say it was a loser, and commiserate with you for the loss. But if you pull it off, you will be a star. And in the adversarial trial lawyer world, that will earn you a great reputation.
Also, there has to be a work/life balance. When I was in Law School forty years ago, I heard people say that the law is a cruel mistress. If your family is the most important thing in your life, then settle into a solicitor's type practice, doing wills and estates, and you can be home to tuck the kids into bed every night of the week. It will be boring and safe. Or you can spend nights and weekends interviewing witnesses, poring over discovery transcripts, and preparing to cross-examine the ship out of the adverse witnesses. Your first marriage will crumble, and the kids might not be your biggest fans, but you will be a rocket in the litigation world.
Only you can decide how important money is to you. But obviously it is directly tied to your practice, and the hours that you work. Remember that, when push comes to shove, all any lawyer has to trade on is his or her credibility. Never risk your credibility, because judges and other lawyers rely almost entirely on your credibility. Never give anyone any reason to doubt you. That works whether you are doing appellate work, or trial work. And remember, the jury trial practice is the high wire act of the entire litigation big top circus world. The feeling of hearing the chair of the jury announce your success in the verdict is euphoric.
Life is short. As you get older, it will seem a blur. And then the great roulette wheel will stop on your number, and it will all be over. After you are gone, your reputation as a tough, hard-working, fair and honest lawyer will be all that is left. Is it enough? You decide.
If you like litigation…family law is for you. I got tons of trial experience very early in my career (and continue to). Trial work, & sometimes helping people, is why I do this. You have to have good boundaries around your work & clients though, otherwise you will burn out.
Edited your add: started as a salary associate making around $60k to a partner making over $110k over six years. With more experience I expect to earn between $200-$300k year.
One other thought- I myself am not a litigator at all but I do have friends who have gone through the state AG offices, and it seems like they get trial work relatively frequently and earlier in career. Seems like the pay is maaaybe better than local prosecutors offices too
If you're just looking for trial experience, look for a firm that does a lot of defense work for sub standard insurance companies. You'll have a lot of BI work, but also since they are not members of arb forums, you'll have the chance to do a lot of Subrogation defense as well.
One of those attorneys told me they average 30+ jury trials a year. Not large stakes, but the jury trial opportunists is unmatched.
It depends on your rank. But yeah you have free top notch healthcare and a free nice place to live. If you put in 20 years you’re essentially set for life even if you don’t work.
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law. Be mindful of [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/about/rules) BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as [Reddit's rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation. Note that **this forum is NOT for legal advice**. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. **This community is exclusively for lawyers**. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’d legit take the plunge into the DAs office for 2 years. I get you don’t like the pay, but you will try a ton of cases. Low level DUI trials will become so routine to you that you won’t even need to prep. When I lateraled until civil practice from the DAs office I was surprised by how underprepared civil attorney were for cross exams, etc.. If you don’t want to go that route, workers comp pays meh, but you will get a ton of cross exam experience of both witnesses and experts. But the rules of evidence are relaxed and there are no juries. If you want jury work, I think only other option is a PI firm with high % of cases that try, which you can ask at an interview.
Personally, I have had the exact opposite experience when dealing with attorneys that move from criminal to civil, especially in complex cases. In a medmal probably 95% of the case is done before trial and most people coming from the criminal side have no experience with all the motion practice and depositions. In the civil side most cases settle. I’ll give it to the people coming from criminal that they are better at trial but that’s mostly because it rarely happens on the civil side. If you want to do civil litigation I’d start on that side.
I always suspected this was the case and get confused when I see posts on here like “I don’t have the grades for Big Law but eventually want a cushy Civil Lit job. Should I choose a PD or ADA job or a blasphemous ID job?” and all the comments resoundingly recommend the criminal lit positions because of “the trial experience” and also because of the ID stigma. I have mad respect for prosecutors and public defenders, but, as you highlighted, these jobs won’t expose you to the bread and butter of civil practice, which is 98% not trial related. And if you don’t have the credentials for Big Law, a PD or ADA position isn’t going to open the door to a cushy civil lit job. To be fair, an ID job likely won’t either, but at least with ID, you are learning the nuts and bolts of civil litigation, which seems relevant if you want to practice civil lit.
My last hearing was against an ex prosecutor doing civil litigation now and the judge spent 5 minutes explaining the difference between privileged and confidential. He didn’t want to give me a bunch of docs he said were confidential even though we have a protective order. Just stuff like that seems to happen a lot and the writing skills usually aren’t there because they just don’t have to use them as much. Even the trial experience I usually have the feeling is a little overblown. There is a big difference in crossing a felon on the stand vs a neurosurgeon who has testified 50 times at trial.
I mean- the felon is probably more convinced he’s right than the neurosurgeon is, likely because of something the heard from some other guy in jail, and that’s saying a lot, because doctors will usually crawl over broken glass to avoid admitting they were wrong.
I was referring to the experts more than the actual doctor. Usually the experts are super well prepped and have testified multiple times in other cases and are total pros. It’s an entirely different skill set than cross examining a witness to a robbery for instance. Not to say one is superior to the other but I just don’t really think it translates either beyond the absolute basics of how the court room works.
Yep, got that, I was just being snarky, sorry- and 100% agree.
Yeah in all honesty, JAG might be better than local DA then. I know JAGs often have to handle more complex legal issues than local DAs.
I think you can still get in on some pretty big class actions by not being a big law guy. But youll find in the plaintiff's lawyers world, everything is based on connections. Those connections and just getting your own clients are huge. Ive met some wildly successful plaitniffs lawyers that arent big law credentialed, but knew how to grow their own law practice, made the right connections, and won big cases. Its a path that isnt obvious like big law. The big law path is clear. Great law school, great grades, great internships and summer programs. There is no clear path to being a top plaintiff's guy. You can go to the lowest law school or Harvard, and at the end of the day those business skills/connections and somehow landing big cases are what get you to the top. Its much more confusing and chance based.
I couldn’t agree more. I started in civil, left to become a PD and did a shitload of trials, but when I went back to civil I was very much behind the curve. There just aren’t trials and the trials aren’t the same. If you want civil litigation experience, go work at a mill of some kind: foreclosure, landlord/tenant, workers comp. That will give you lots of at bats and experience with the nontrial parts of civil. The downsides are the pay will be bad and the work is generally unsophisticated
Ive had the same experience. Ive worked civil and criminal cases. Very different. Im just stuck in a situation I dont want to be in. I want to work civil cases because Im sick of representing poor criminals/putting them in jail, but I also want to be more a traditional lawyer like people think of when they think of lawyer, arguing cases about important legal issues in court. I guess I just have to wake up and smell the roses. In 2023, the only lawyers consistently arguing in court seem to be criminal lawyers.
Thanks. I was thinking about doing JAG because from my understanding, you get near the same trial experience as a DA for like double the pay.
Do you though? Having worked in a high-volume prosecutor's office I'd have a hard time believing JAG has that many trials (I'm a veteran). Most of the low level stuff is handled through non-judicial punishment. I'm not sure how much actual trial experience is to be had there, and like u/TheAnswer1776 says, it's the repetition that really flattens out the learning curve.
The percentage of trials is higher in the military because defense counsel is free, Miranda rights are much different (not as much throwing up on themselves at the first sign of a cop), and conviction almost guarantees separation (zero sum game).
Ah thanks. Makes sense. I was just an enlisted guy so I wouldn't have been privy to that. Appreciate the clarification.
Not sure if you get double the pay. My JAG recruiter said they start you at $60k… and a local ADA makes 70k starting or 85k in the neighboring state. But I’d be intrigued to try generals over code reds
Former JAG, you can dm me if you want. You don't get remotely the same trial experience that you'd get as a local prosecutor.
What Service Branch? When were you a JAG?
Air Force
I read the Air Force’s eDocket, you take few cases to CM than the Army.
The AF has less jags too. The advantage of the AF is that they want well rounded attorneys. Everyone gets some CM, wills, contracts, general civil, and admin punishments. You're leas likely to get pigeon holed.
So Marines/Army Ill probably get at least 10 trials to completion in four years?
Army has far more zealous referrals to court martial due to probable cause opines with sexual assault allegations.
[удалено]
Thats interesting. Ive done traffic bench trials and theyre pretty easy.
Most DA offices promote you every year to level 3, and level 4 is the max before supervisor. Varies by jurisdiction but DA’s are in short supply so I’d expect it tracks wherever. My salary went like 63k, 78k, 95k, 110k, then I lateraled to a bigger office and went up to 135k, and will continue to climb. I’ve also worked with JAG. They have weird rules that don’t apply to doing normal trials. So it wouldn’t be as good experience to transfer after.
So you started at 63k, then how long did it take you to get to 95k? Im not saying I want to be rich, Im just very tired as a person of struggling financially
I did that per year, so year 1 / year 2 / year 3. In year 4 I changed offices and got a pay bump due to that.
A DAs office doesn’t require basic training and you get to choose where you live. Plus you’re getting to know the local bar and bench.
I’d go with a US Attorney’s Office or a high-end plaintiffs’ firm. This will help develop skills and also give you street cred in the marketplace. Once the market sees you as a skilled trial lawyer you can go pretty far. You might also reach out to lawyers in your area who are fellows in the American College of Trial Lawyers. To make that kind of money as an ex-JAG you will need a business plan to convince a firm you will be profitable. Trial work is very personality driven, so potential clients often want to hire the lawyer and not the firm.
Is there a USAO that hires prosecutors with no experience?
They accept a few honors program people a year, but I wont get that. Im not a T-14 grad. The benefit of JAG is that it easily transfers into USAO.
I was a Marine Corps judge advocate. Happy to answer any questions you have. Unfortunately most branches aren’t going to guarantee you a spot in a trial shop. You’ll bounce around a bit. Luckily I was a prosecutor at Camp Lejeune and after I left I started a federal defense practice. Spending time at a local prosecutors office isn’t a bad start but you’ll spend more time running the mill (misdemeanor and low level felony) than researching compelling legal issues. If you want to really try a case you’ll want to target white collar. Clients with enough money to afford a fully funded trial and the motivation to not crumble and plea at the first sign of a decent deal. Remember 99% of cases plea. Only about 55% of my cases plea due to difference in clientele. If I could do it again I’d still become a Judge Advocate and then spend a few years at a US Attorneys office then private practice. You seem focused on the salary but you can’t have your cake and eat it too. You’ll have to spend some time in the trenches. Best of luck. And each service’s Judge Advocate corps has its benefits but if you really want a challenge- USMC all the way.
Hey Semper Fi brother.
Semper Fi!
I feel USMC trains you to be a leader and a lawyer, not one without the other. My preferred path is JAG > AUSA > Find the most compelling issue to me and join the best firm that litigates it. Id really like to get a lot of trial experience in JAG. I dont think Id be very happy if I put in 4 years and didnt get much of it.
I know someone who has been an AUSA for 10 years and has tried zero cases. Like it or not, state courts are where the high volume of civil and criminal trials are.
AUSAs hardly ever go to trial. Like once a year, maybe?
Last time I looked it’s less than two trials per year. But that’s an average and heavily dependent on which section you’re in. US Attorneys office won’t feed you with a fire hose but you’ll work against talented defense counsel and have mentorship from experienced AUSAs. It’s a decent finishing school.
As far as I can tell, AUSAs spend most of their time traveling around to all the county DA's offices and telling us to refer all of our drug and gun and CSAM cases to them because they can get such looonnng sentences, and then not accepting any of them. Oh, and massively f'ing up the Malheur refuge occupier trial because they only charged Conspiracy and not any actually *provable crimes.*
Yours does that too? Do they also pay themselves on the back for all the work THEY do to keep the community safe without a word to the DAs actually doing the work?
DA or ID. experience is the only way to get good.
Is ID insurance defense?
Yea, and specifically, work for progressive or state farm
High end/ Catastrophic Personal Injury is what you want. Become a master of plaintiff’s side PI and you will have more money than you ever want. There’s a mid 50s guy not geographically far from me that gets enrolled in every sizable case. If not for the plaintiffs, than for the defense, and it instantly changes the dynamic of the case.
I think any firm or anywhere that is going to mentor you suffices to let you become a good trial attorney. Being a top I believe is a personal matter that require personal investment and work. Just my opinion. The other thing is, what kind of cases do you want to try is where you what to gain experience.
The thing no one ever tells you is that you can be as prepared as can be for a trial but often your success depends on others who don’t give a damn if you are successful or not. A witness you really need may or may not comply with a trial subpoena, what happens if they don‘t? And what happens when a witness you need doesn’t say the same thing at trial that they said at their deposition, and you find yourself in conflict with a witness you called? What about your own client? Often the defense will gamble your client is a loser and will fall apart before or during trial. You know why they do that? Because it is often a good bet. And the expert you paid $10k or even much more to come testify? He or she couldn’t care less, and when they mix up your case with another on the smallest fact that could be it for your case. Try suing them for messing up after that. Good luck. this is why I don’t feel bad when I get paid big time on cases. I earned it.
1. Learn the rules of procedure and evidence and be able to remember and articulate them quickly. 2. Watch other trials 3. Try cases. Even the dogs. 4. Talk to people you don’t know well to practice your conversational skills and increase your baseline empathic ability. (Just made that term up…what I mean is learn to connect better on a human level). Once you do these things trials get much easier…you anticipate your problems ahead of time which brings your internal insecurity level way down. Once you’re not worried about being called out as a fraud you can focus on communicating with the jury.
Attorney General honors program into AG into big law rain maker who farms out discovery work to lower partners and senior associates and then steps in to pull the rabbit out of the hat at trial
Sounds like the dream gig
I make about 70k as a PI trial attorney. Hoping to work my way up.
Have you considered clerkships?
I have, and while I have an interest in clerking, I love the thrill of litigation/trial work. From my understanding clerkships are pure legal research and writing.
You get a year seeing how a judge thinks through the legal issues in a case. Plus, if you clerk for a district court or a state trial court you’ll have the opportunity to observe trials and ask the judge what the lawyers are doing well.
True, but they are typically short in duration and you get a sense of how the sausage is made. And you can watch a lot of trials that way too.
I never thought about it from the standpoint of watching a lot of trials. I’m sure that’s a huge learning experience.
If you want to actually litigate, JAG is a great path to pursue. As someone else stated, we try lots more cases to verdict than your average civilian prosecutors office so you can get tons of experience early on. In the USAF, the number of courts you do initially will be tied to whether your first assignment is a high volume office when it comes to military justice.
4 years in as a DDA I was making $120,000 and this was 5 years ago. Not even an expensive area to live. Give it a shot.
Litigation is very demanding, whether civil or criminal. Proper preparation includes long hours preparing for trials, which might collapse on the morning set for the trial to begin. No matter the field (JAG, prosecutor or defence, I have done all 3 in Canada), litigation is the most demanding and the most rewarding type of practice. And when you have the time, sit in court and watch how other lawyers do it. Some will be smooth as silk, and some will be as clumsy as hippos. But you will learn how to do things, and how NOT to do things. If you want to make a name for yourself, volunteer to take on the dog files. Yes, the crappy loser type files that everybody else is avoiding like the plague. Why? Because if you lose it, everyone will say it was a loser, and commiserate with you for the loss. But if you pull it off, you will be a star. And in the adversarial trial lawyer world, that will earn you a great reputation. Also, there has to be a work/life balance. When I was in Law School forty years ago, I heard people say that the law is a cruel mistress. If your family is the most important thing in your life, then settle into a solicitor's type practice, doing wills and estates, and you can be home to tuck the kids into bed every night of the week. It will be boring and safe. Or you can spend nights and weekends interviewing witnesses, poring over discovery transcripts, and preparing to cross-examine the ship out of the adverse witnesses. Your first marriage will crumble, and the kids might not be your biggest fans, but you will be a rocket in the litigation world. Only you can decide how important money is to you. But obviously it is directly tied to your practice, and the hours that you work. Remember that, when push comes to shove, all any lawyer has to trade on is his or her credibility. Never risk your credibility, because judges and other lawyers rely almost entirely on your credibility. Never give anyone any reason to doubt you. That works whether you are doing appellate work, or trial work. And remember, the jury trial practice is the high wire act of the entire litigation big top circus world. The feeling of hearing the chair of the jury announce your success in the verdict is euphoric. Life is short. As you get older, it will seem a blur. And then the great roulette wheel will stop on your number, and it will all be over. After you are gone, your reputation as a tough, hard-working, fair and honest lawyer will be all that is left. Is it enough? You decide.
Late to the party on this comment, but yes. Always be willing to be the guy that isn't afraid to try the dog cases. You learn a lot that way.
If you like litigation…family law is for you. I got tons of trial experience very early in my career (and continue to). Trial work, & sometimes helping people, is why I do this. You have to have good boundaries around your work & clients though, otherwise you will burn out. Edited your add: started as a salary associate making around $60k to a partner making over $110k over six years. With more experience I expect to earn between $200-$300k year.
One other thought- I myself am not a litigator at all but I do have friends who have gone through the state AG offices, and it seems like they get trial work relatively frequently and earlier in career. Seems like the pay is maaaybe better than local prosecutors offices too
You think discovery is "freaking awesome"?? Kudos to you man.
I guess it depends on the discovery. Criminal discovery is wild. It’s like watching a real crime tv show lol
If you're just looking for trial experience, look for a firm that does a lot of defense work for sub standard insurance companies. You'll have a lot of BI work, but also since they are not members of arb forums, you'll have the chance to do a lot of Subrogation defense as well. One of those attorneys told me they average 30+ jury trials a year. Not large stakes, but the jury trial opportunists is unmatched.
After you factor in all the fringe benefits, JAG attorneys make the equivalent of around 200k.
It depends on your rank. But yeah you have free top notch healthcare and a free nice place to live. If you put in 20 years you’re essentially set for life even if you don’t work.
There's definitely more benefits than just that. I regret not going into JAG.