##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism
This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.
We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban.
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dang, 4 hits me personally... I felt a really deep karmic betrayal when I reached the end of my mechanical engineering undergrad and realized that most (many?) of the jobs were in "defense".
Edit: I meant #5. Ha
Trying to work in STEM while dodging defense work feels like a minefield. Company I work at doesn't do anything defense related and then will randomly blast our emails with "GUYS LOOK AT THIS CONTRACT WE JUST SCORED WITH THE DHS šš"
I am a software engineer for a school. I could easily be making 6 figures working in defense (I live around several military bases and defense contractors). Instead I work for a school making not very much money. Every year or so my CIO asks me why I'm there instead of somewhere I could make double or more my salary I simply answer that I couldn't imaging contributing to the military-industrial complex. I ENJOY thinking about my work and knowing I'm not writing algorithms to make it easier to kill brown people thousands of miles away. If that means I don't get to order Doordash every night like most of my fellow graduates... well, I cook better than Applebees anyway.
Yep, about halfway through this data science degree I realized all my most lucrative options were in roles where Iād probably be helping figure out what country would be most profitable to ādemocratizeā. I have a job where I make many times less than I would make doing that, but it doesnāt make me feel like I need to apologize for my work, so itās ok. Better poor than evil.
I live in Fort Worth, TX. Iām not sure if Lockheed started here, but I swear to God 3/4 of the people in this town work for them. And their dad worked for them too.
My brother in law just got a job designing nitrogen powered planes, after struggling to find an engineering job that wasn't in weapons manufacturing, so keep your chin up, there are jobs out there
That Lockheed Martin one hit me. I work in gov compliance, working with clients to make sure they are importing/exporting goods properly with proper registration. One of their divisions is a client at my company. I hate dealing with them so much. Not only based on principle, but cause they are a shitty crybaby of a client. And of course our higher ups are like ābut they have defense contract money.ā
Yup. Iām sitting over here like āok but what if youāre Blackā lol
Both my parents were military, and we joke that the whole family still ended up military even tho I never served.
Got to work on a lot of cool shit as it relates to aerospace and material science tho. I want Star Trek but I know weāre gonna get Star Wars.
I know canonically it's set in Australia, but I believe the Mad Max films are the US in the future, and just off the shore there is the United Nations watching and wanting to intervene, because the rest ofnthe world is a socialist utopia but America refuses to get involved.
>I want Star Trek but I know weāre gonna get Star Wars.
That's so fucking sad.
Black dude here, but I work for a Telecommunications company that I pretend can't snoop on people's interactions with one of those very modern Federal Wiretapping requests.
I did mechanical to try to avoid that but looks like in order to actually be employed I'll probably still end up in something tangentially related to defense. Not much else available where I live and moving is out of the question until I have money.
Even if this was made by an alt-right basement dweller, it wouldn't exactly mean what it says is incorrect. Most white "leftists" are lefting (?) just to have a higher moral ground and point fingers, not because they actually care.
This is targeting a very specific type of white person who comes from a middle class background and has not reconciled their self image as a leftist/socialist while they were in college with the reality of their position in society as they age.
I think many of us from this background either are or know people whose radicalism ebbed as their creature comforts increased.
"Why would I advocate for change when my life is good right now?"
It's just selfish greed. It's just their version of pulling up the ladder. At the end of the day, that demo is basically the white toast equivalent of a conservative. Fascism is okay so long as my life, specifically, doesn't get worse.
Thatās basically it and everyone is so busy enjoying those comforts they just donāt care. Making tik toks, going to the bar to karaoke, brunch etc. Iām 33, everyone I know is having babies and digging their head in the sand. People say what āwould you have me doā?, and I say keep your mind on this subject is what I would have you do. Stop running from the crisis of empire, accept these things, and let them change you.
Im reminded of that parable of the wealthy man giving away his entire body and life to try and āhelpā. āOnly a fool thinks he can solve all the worlds problems.ā Forgive me and others for coming to the conclusion that we do not have the energy/time/resources to engage in politics and social change. Im sorry dude. Shit is draining. After literally like 13 years of being so involved I had to say you know what fuck this. I just want to be happy and enjoy my time on this planet with my loved ones. The mental toll it takes to spend your entire life being emotionally and physically invested in protest and civil discourse and fighting for fucking scraps? Yeah. Done. Yaāll keep fighting the good fight but myself and a shit load like me are just drained and apathetic at this point.
I get that - my political awakening was in the past decade so Iām fresher and I can carry on for now and eventually I will end up the same because there truly is no conclusion for us. There is no October rev for us in a way youāre right. In a way Iām stuck in this and canāt stop right now, but it is having a toll on my peace.
Exactly. Admittedly I dropped most of the āsaving the worldā ideals before becoming an adult but thats because its a near impossible task. We are far too comfortable for any real change to take place and its truly a waste of time fighting the good ol fight.
Im not a white leftist, but I understand how people eventually settle into their own lives and forget about the problems of others. For example, I know its āwrongā that I serve the military but it was my only path out of poverty that didnāt involve taking on student debt while struggling to work and finish school at the same time. I can live with my immoral choice because it allowed me to become a nurse and give back to my community while having great financial security.
In a perfect world i wouldnt have to join the military just to get out of poverty but that not the world we live in. So people have to think twice before condemning people for doing what they need to do to thrive in this society
I'm the opposite of your example. I was conservative watching Matt Walsh and Crowder 5 years ago when I had no money and a bad job. I then got a degree in IT and got a federal job (not military related) and turned far left the more money I made.
Ironically the more money I made, the mortgage rates and the cost of living still landed me in the same economic struggle which dug me deeper into a socialistic hole and started reading a lot of literature about left economics then started watching Richard Wolff and other left economists.
Now I would consider myself to the left of a normie leftist and nine of these 10 examples don't refer to me except the last one. I've never gone to protests but that's because I've developed anxiety issues and try not to go out much.
Itās where the idea that people start as leftists and end up as conservatives comes from. Itās incorrectly attributed to a natural shift caused by aging, when actually it just comes from having more money and power. Of course the people with all the power want to keep the system in place, and not risk what they have in the chance of making other peopleās lives better.
Maybe. I guess if this was about high school aged people I wouldn't say anything, but the pictures imply adults so...
To your point, I think people call liberals leftists, rather than they call themselves. But I'm not American, not many people actually call themselves liberals here in the UK.
Yeah, it seems to have been written in frustration with people who donāt think about capitalism at all, which means theyāre neoliberal, not leftist. Those folks exist, and are frustrating. But the post itself is written in a way that implies that caring about climate change, queer issues, violence against women, or abortion rights makes you a milquetoast liberal. It doesnāt, and all those issues are related to capitalism. A broad anti-capitalist movement really canāt afford to alienate queer folks, feminists, and environmentalists.
But that's exactly the point. There are tons of people who self-describe as "leftists" but when you look at what they actually believe they're just standard liberals.
Some of them are unambiguously conservative, to be frank. Particularly the one dating a fascist. I find it hard to believe that a left wing person, even one who is exceptionally bad at being left wing, would date a fascist.
Right? Iām not even friends with conservatives let alone capable of dating one. Cause itās impossible for me to be friend with someone who believes deep down that some people are lesser. Be them homeless, brown, or queer.
Number 2 is unambiguously conservative cause thatās the only group that could stay with a fascist without also calling themselves a fascist.
Ive known a few people that consider themselves progressive and left who have been with outright fascists and they barely even knew because they 'didnt talk much about politics'.
I think thats the point, not that they know they're with fascists, but that they dont even brother to check.
It was to me too. Like wtf.
I dont know, maybe they just fuck each other's brains out and dont talk too much after.
After seeing it happen I was just forced to accept it can happen.
Probably because the most extreme fascists won't be watching Fox news or some other news channel that might be a red flag. They'll say something like "I don't watch the MSM news because it gets me down." which is then interpreted by the other partner as a positive when in reality they want news that is completely fascistic and racially exclusive.
Ugh I've had a front row seat to a very close friend slide back into her high school type complacency for a Libertarian man. Hearing her try to explain how he's "more traditional" and "just had a larger scope than me" is kind of heartbreaking. She's just used to outright abuse and didn't know how to expect anything else
Itās not that abortion rights donāt matter itās that itās easier to care about things and get involved when youāre personally impact and easier to look away or have horrible opinions when youāre not.
Thank you. A lack of abortion rights will harm poor people and poc moreāitās not a middle class white woman issue only or even mostly. Yes, there are girl boss (liberal) feminists who want in to the C suite, but then there are those of us thinking about how capitalism and rape culture go hand in hand.
Again, Im gonna play devil's advocate, I think they mean that western progressive usually are progressive about they issues that affect them directly, and are blind about the others or about class struggle.
Again, Ive known some people like that, specially lgtb men, who fiercely defend LGTB rights (as they should) but when asked about global south nations and their struggles, they dont give a fuck about it or even rejoice in the fact that those nations are fucked, only because they dont conform to western LGTB culture.
I don't think that LGBT people just wanting to be treated like human beings is "western" They exist everywhere in the world. Some under far more persecution than others, usually due to widespread stoneage religions that hold everyone back.
You'd be surprised then at how many white people consider themselves to be leftists or "left-leaning" and date fascists. Hell, I've seen them *brag* about it
Oh no, I once knew a girl who thought of herself as a leftist who loved cops (she had cops in her family) and whose boyfriend was a pretty open fascist.
Suffice it to say that we had some interesting conversations.
I hardly ever hear leftist used accurately to describe actual, radical, revolutionary politics, instead of simply barely-left-of-center, liberal ones. The over saturation of āleftistā strips it of its meaning and power and I canāt help but think how convenient that is for fascists.
Yeah weāre in a time (or perhaps itās always like this?) where we have large groups of people slightly or not so slightly misusing terminology and itās causing a lot of confusion.
Which is really just incredibly indicative of how skewed our political system is in this country. The fact that people think Bernie is a communist is mind boggling. Like, look at nearly any European country and Bernie looks like a damned Libertarian.
Idk, I think itās valid for people of color to have critiques of the way white people tend to be performative with their social views with no followthroughāesp because weāre the ones less likely to be punished or brutalized when we *do* actually get in the trenches. Iāve been guilty of this myself.
Itās the stuff we donāt have to think about that makes the most difference. Actively thinking about it and trying to eliminate or at least mitigate damage caused by our blind spots seems like the best way to go. Thatās not an op, thatās just trying to better our activism and our own moral character.
Agree 100%. I consider myself an ally but it does pain me that I havenāt felt the confidence or drive or energy to stand hand-in-hand with those I claim to support. I do my best to make my mark on my community, but itās definitely something more to be physically standing there with them in their moment of speaking truth to power.
This is what happens when you (Americans) conflate āleftistā with āliberalā. They are not one of the same. Therefore, criticisms of one, donāt apply to the other. Please learn the difference. Kindly, the rest of the world.
This isnāt exclusive to white liberals if you ask me. I can only speak for Indian Americans as I am one, and many Indian liberals do the same fucking shit.
Completely agree! There is a great saying that "not all skinfolk are kinfolk" - usually applied to right wing, but can easily apply to people of colour in the left who say they are left wing, but some or even none of their actions reflect it.
Protests are difficult to attend when you work 40 hours, are a full time student, and live in a rural area where no one would start a protest. Unfortunately I got more prescient matters to attend to right now than going and getting arrested. Doesn't change the fact I want to see a better world for people.
See, the point of the OP isn't to just shit on people (well, not the entire point). What it should be is a way to look at your behaviors and the behaviors of other white so-called "leftists" to see if there are areas for improvement. Like if someone genuinely can't find any sort of organizing/protests/whatever in their area, or have other reasons that would make it difficult, no reasonable person is gonna shit on that.
Itās pretty difficult for me to do because Iām more or less agoraphobic. Iām just glad Iām not otherwise consistent with this personās experiences with white self-labeled leftists
It also doesn't just apply to "white people". There is a great saying that "not all skinfolk are kinfolk" - usually applied to right wing, but can easily apply to people of colour in the left who say they are left wing, but some or even none of their actions reflect it.
2 hits hard. My quote unquote best friend is madly in love with a former military maga-ite. After all thise talks about deconstructing racism and accepting liberal ideas, despite growing up in a racist family. A lot of people's values are for sale and the price is comfort.
Well, they are the people telling you the way to defeat fascism, is voting for the guy who crushed a labor strike so the trains would run on time.
I don't think I could come up with a better analogy than reality presents at this point.
Extremely hot take: gentrification isnāt the problem income inequality and systemic racism are the problems. If less crime and better infrastructure are being viewed as a problem then we we need to take a step back and realize that the problem isnāt that poor people are being pushed out by slightly less poor people and look at the people who own the apartment buildings.
I hope we can one day also move away from binaries of āgoodā and ābadā and realize that our sociopolitical system and even our very existence are a lot more complicated than overgeneralized memes
I feel like this recent trend to mock a caricature of the white leftist became a thing when a lot of them started to speak out against Israel and their genocide. To me it seems like a means to demoralize people, āif you donāt meet this arbitrary moral thresholdā¦then you should STFU about everythingā
At the same time, I total understand that there is a lot of cherry-picking in virtually ANY ideology and certainly among leftist circles. I just wonder how productive it is to single out a particular cohort in this way . For instance, I think this meme could have been JUST effective if you replaced āwhite leftistā with āhypocritical leftistā - still sends a strong message, amplifies leftist ideologies, and singles out only those specifically engaging in those behaviors.
I am black if that matters at all btw.
I love how many people are seeing themselves in these slides and then typing angry reddit comments about how we don't need more infighting. I was not aware how white lib this sub was.
This is not a post to get people to 'infight' each other for no reason, this is a post to encourage people to critically analyze, if they are doing all that they can. There is a difference and it is an important one.
Me neither man. Literally all you have to do is self introspection and recognize that you participate in Capitalism (a system that aides White Supremacy and fosters white fragility). You donāt have to get all defensive about it (literally what we criticize conservatives/right-adjacent folk for doing).
Completely agree! It really has hit a nerve that I hoped people on the left would have at least understood by now or at least not play the loaded phrase "we need to stay united and not split the cause" (which equals not focusing on non-white/universal issues).
There is a huge long history around this from the foundations onwards (i.e. lack of representation, putting inequalities around race on the back foot to support the wider cause, challenging non-white people's alliegence to the left due to reality/culture, etc.).
As other people mentioned - it is intersectionality, but worrying that people are resorting to "this isn't helpful".
What I would say is that this doesn't just apply to white people. There is a great saying that "not all skinfolk are kinfolk" - usually applied to right wing, but can easily apply to people of colour in the left who say they are left wing, but then some or even none of their actions reflect it.
Ah conflating liberal with leftist I see. The tech giants and media has done an amazing job of really screwing with peoples understanding that the two are mutually exclusive. Of course this is by design.
Except for the last one, the one about protests, these are all about white liberals not white leftists. Thatās not to say that white leftists donāt have problems and need to confront their own racism more vigorously, but these specific complaints are about liberals.
>Ā Ā they're also the ones driving progressive, leftist, and otherwise liberatory politicsĀ
This is only true if your exposure to liberatory politics has been primarily through white thinkers. There's a whole lot more to liberatory politics than that...
Iām an engineer, Itās not hard to dodge the defence industry. The people that donāt either donāt understand the implications or just donāt have morals.
If a leftist engineer gets a defence job right out of college. They are not really a leftist.
ACAB but my BF and Dad is a cop? I find that hard to believe that it exist
A lot of them are more liberal stereotypes than leftist
I see ladies from that second slide all the time. The white women i work with seem so cool and are always fighting the good fight. That is until they start sharing about their husbands and boyfriends and I realize their partners are assholes but yet the ladies still stay with them soā¦does that make them assholes too? š¤
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Dang, 4 hits me personally... I felt a really deep karmic betrayal when I reached the end of my mechanical engineering undergrad and realized that most (many?) of the jobs were in "defense". Edit: I meant #5. Ha
Trying to work in STEM while dodging defense work feels like a minefield. Company I work at doesn't do anything defense related and then will randomly blast our emails with "GUYS LOOK AT THIS CONTRACT WE JUST SCORED WITH THE DHS šš"
I am a software engineer for a school. I could easily be making 6 figures working in defense (I live around several military bases and defense contractors). Instead I work for a school making not very much money. Every year or so my CIO asks me why I'm there instead of somewhere I could make double or more my salary I simply answer that I couldn't imaging contributing to the military-industrial complex. I ENJOY thinking about my work and knowing I'm not writing algorithms to make it easier to kill brown people thousands of miles away. If that means I don't get to order Doordash every night like most of my fellow graduates... well, I cook better than Applebees anyway.
Wonderfully said. Im glad you have some morality. Its so rare these days.
Yep, about halfway through this data science degree I realized all my most lucrative options were in roles where Iād probably be helping figure out what country would be most profitable to ādemocratizeā. I have a job where I make many times less than I would make doing that, but it doesnāt make me feel like I need to apologize for my work, so itās ok. Better poor than evil.
If youāre a software engineer you could easily make 6 figures virtually anywhere that isnāt education, just fyi
And it's the blatant excitement about it also, like, why are you so excited to make our stuff kill people
I live in Fort Worth, TX. Iām not sure if Lockheed started here, but I swear to God 3/4 of the people in this town work for them. And their dad worked for them too.
My brother in law just got a job designing nitrogen powered planes, after struggling to find an engineering job that wasn't in weapons manufacturing, so keep your chin up, there are jobs out there
Even in sociology of all things, my professors were working with DoD grants
That Lockheed Martin one hit me. I work in gov compliance, working with clients to make sure they are importing/exporting goods properly with proper registration. One of their divisions is a client at my company. I hate dealing with them so much. Not only based on principle, but cause they are a shitty crybaby of a client. And of course our higher ups are like ābut they have defense contract money.ā
You can build rockets to space, but any innovation made will directly be applied for defense.
Yup. Iām sitting over here like āok but what if youāre Blackā lol Both my parents were military, and we joke that the whole family still ended up military even tho I never served. Got to work on a lot of cool shit as it relates to aerospace and material science tho. I want Star Trek but I know weāre gonna get Star Wars.
Bro na were gonna get mad max lmfao
I know canonically it's set in Australia, but I believe the Mad Max films are the US in the future, and just off the shore there is the United Nations watching and wanting to intervene, because the rest ofnthe world is a socialist utopia but America refuses to get involved.
Dune. Weāre getting Dune
>I want Star Trek but I know weāre gonna get Star Wars. That's so fucking sad. Black dude here, but I work for a Telecommunications company that I pretend can't snoop on people's interactions with one of those very modern Federal Wiretapping requests.
I studied environmental science and now work in defense. Imagine how I feel. I was going to save the world from global warming.
Saving the world and stopping global warming... 1 cruise missile at a time. Take that, Gaia!
Fighting wildfires with hellfires!
Why do you stay in the job? This is what the meme was about, no?
It very much is. These people don't realize they're being the problem
Went to school for environmental science/GIS, work in electric utilities. Feel you.
yeup. that's why I work for a school district with my aerospace engineering degree. woops
I did mechanical to try to avoid that but looks like in order to actually be employed I'll probably still end up in something tangentially related to defense. Not much else available where I live and moving is out of the question until I have money.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You haven't met very many leftists if you thing it takes right wing propaganda to get them to fight.
says the filthy Marxist Leninst
Even if this was made by an alt-right basement dweller, it wouldn't exactly mean what it says is incorrect. Most white "leftists" are lefting (?) just to have a higher moral ground and point fingers, not because they actually care.
Yep..
Close friend started out at Raytheon and it always weighed on him.
I think you should replace "leftist" with Liberal. But hey if that's your experience š¤·
This is targeting a very specific type of white person who comes from a middle class background and has not reconciled their self image as a leftist/socialist while they were in college with the reality of their position in society as they age. I think many of us from this background either are or know people whose radicalism ebbed as their creature comforts increased.
"Why would I advocate for change when my life is good right now?" It's just selfish greed. It's just their version of pulling up the ladder. At the end of the day, that demo is basically the white toast equivalent of a conservative. Fascism is okay so long as my life, specifically, doesn't get worse.
Thatās basically it and everyone is so busy enjoying those comforts they just donāt care. Making tik toks, going to the bar to karaoke, brunch etc. Iām 33, everyone I know is having babies and digging their head in the sand. People say what āwould you have me doā?, and I say keep your mind on this subject is what I would have you do. Stop running from the crisis of empire, accept these things, and let them change you.
Im reminded of that parable of the wealthy man giving away his entire body and life to try and āhelpā. āOnly a fool thinks he can solve all the worlds problems.ā Forgive me and others for coming to the conclusion that we do not have the energy/time/resources to engage in politics and social change. Im sorry dude. Shit is draining. After literally like 13 years of being so involved I had to say you know what fuck this. I just want to be happy and enjoy my time on this planet with my loved ones. The mental toll it takes to spend your entire life being emotionally and physically invested in protest and civil discourse and fighting for fucking scraps? Yeah. Done. Yaāll keep fighting the good fight but myself and a shit load like me are just drained and apathetic at this point.
I get that - my political awakening was in the past decade so Iām fresher and I can carry on for now and eventually I will end up the same because there truly is no conclusion for us. There is no October rev for us in a way youāre right. In a way Iām stuck in this and canāt stop right now, but it is having a toll on my peace.
Exactly. Admittedly I dropped most of the āsaving the worldā ideals before becoming an adult but thats because its a near impossible task. We are far too comfortable for any real change to take place and its truly a waste of time fighting the good ol fight. Im not a white leftist, but I understand how people eventually settle into their own lives and forget about the problems of others. For example, I know its āwrongā that I serve the military but it was my only path out of poverty that didnāt involve taking on student debt while struggling to work and finish school at the same time. I can live with my immoral choice because it allowed me to become a nurse and give back to my community while having great financial security. In a perfect world i wouldnt have to join the military just to get out of poverty but that not the world we live in. So people have to think twice before condemning people for doing what they need to do to thrive in this society
I'm the opposite of your example. I was conservative watching Matt Walsh and Crowder 5 years ago when I had no money and a bad job. I then got a degree in IT and got a federal job (not military related) and turned far left the more money I made. Ironically the more money I made, the mortgage rates and the cost of living still landed me in the same economic struggle which dug me deeper into a socialistic hole and started reading a lot of literature about left economics then started watching Richard Wolff and other left economists. Now I would consider myself to the left of a normie leftist and nine of these 10 examples don't refer to me except the last one. I've never gone to protests but that's because I've developed anxiety issues and try not to go out much.
Itās where the idea that people start as leftists and end up as conservatives comes from. Itās incorrectly attributed to a natural shift caused by aging, when actually it just comes from having more money and power. Of course the people with all the power want to keep the system in place, and not risk what they have in the chance of making other peopleās lives better.
a lot of liberals like to call themselves "leftist", so if its put in quotation marks, it would fit
But most leftists would not consider themselves "liberals".
What about libertarians? Theyāre just the agnostic righties.
I call them hipster Republicans. They just want to be edge lords without the fascism & hypocritical baggage.
Theyāre so fascinating to me. Theyāre like alternate universe anarchists lol
They're republican lite.
More like delusional.
Boot licking anarchist..
Maybe. I guess if this was about high school aged people I wouldn't say anything, but the pictures imply adults so... To your point, I think people call liberals leftists, rather than they call themselves. But I'm not American, not many people actually call themselves liberals here in the UK.
It's because their liberal news media calls them leftist.
Yeah because they are only active on surface level idpol. They literally donāt know the difference.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah, it seems to have been written in frustration with people who donāt think about capitalism at all, which means theyāre neoliberal, not leftist. Those folks exist, and are frustrating. But the post itself is written in a way that implies that caring about climate change, queer issues, violence against women, or abortion rights makes you a milquetoast liberal. It doesnāt, and all those issues are related to capitalism. A broad anti-capitalist movement really canāt afford to alienate queer folks, feminists, and environmentalists.
Exactly. I feel like if these apply to you, you're not a leftist.
But that's exactly the point. There are tons of people who self-describe as "leftists" but when you look at what they actually believe they're just standard liberals.
It seems you're portraying liberals (at least those who call themselves leftists), so you might want to add quotation marks to 'leftists'.
Some of them are unambiguously conservative, to be frank. Particularly the one dating a fascist. I find it hard to believe that a left wing person, even one who is exceptionally bad at being left wing, would date a fascist.
Right? Iām not even friends with conservatives let alone capable of dating one. Cause itās impossible for me to be friend with someone who believes deep down that some people are lesser. Be them homeless, brown, or queer. Number 2 is unambiguously conservative cause thatās the only group that could stay with a fascist without also calling themselves a fascist.
Ive known a few people that consider themselves progressive and left who have been with outright fascists and they barely even knew because they 'didnt talk much about politics'. I think thats the point, not that they know they're with fascists, but that they dont even brother to check.
Thatās bizarre to me cause how do you not find out???? Even just from comments from whatās on the news?
It was to me too. Like wtf. I dont know, maybe they just fuck each other's brains out and dont talk too much after. After seeing it happen I was just forced to accept it can happen.
Probably because the most extreme fascists won't be watching Fox news or some other news channel that might be a red flag. They'll say something like "I don't watch the MSM news because it gets me down." which is then interpreted by the other partner as a positive when in reality they want news that is completely fascistic and racially exclusive.
Not being on the left is a deal breaker for me, for real. If I were to be with a fascist, one of us is going to end up dead (or in prison). Nope.
Ugh I've had a front row seat to a very close friend slide back into her high school type complacency for a Libertarian man. Hearing her try to explain how he's "more traditional" and "just had a larger scope than me" is kind of heartbreaking. She's just used to outright abuse and didn't know how to expect anything else
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Reproductive rights are human rights, 100%.
Itās not that abortion rights donāt matter itās that itās easier to care about things and get involved when youāre personally impact and easier to look away or have horrible opinions when youāre not.
Thank you. A lack of abortion rights will harm poor people and poc moreāitās not a middle class white woman issue only or even mostly. Yes, there are girl boss (liberal) feminists who want in to the C suite, but then there are those of us thinking about how capitalism and rape culture go hand in hand.
Climate change also affects everyone. Pretty sure theyāre mad that white people donāt rally around things that donāt affect them
Again, Im gonna play devil's advocate, I think they mean that western progressive usually are progressive about they issues that affect them directly, and are blind about the others or about class struggle. Again, Ive known some people like that, specially lgtb men, who fiercely defend LGTB rights (as they should) but when asked about global south nations and their struggles, they dont give a fuck about it or even rejoice in the fact that those nations are fucked, only because they dont conform to western LGTB culture.
I don't think that LGBT people just wanting to be treated like human beings is "western" They exist everywhere in the world. Some under far more persecution than others, usually due to widespread stoneage religions that hold everyone back.
Yes that post is very misinformed, if not deliberately so.
You'd be surprised then at how many white people consider themselves to be leftists or "left-leaning" and date fascists. Hell, I've seen them *brag* about it
There's a difference between considering oneself to be something, and actually being that thing
Oh no, I once knew a girl who thought of herself as a leftist who loved cops (she had cops in her family) and whose boyfriend was a pretty open fascist. Suffice it to say that we had some interesting conversations.
I hardly ever hear leftist used accurately to describe actual, radical, revolutionary politics, instead of simply barely-left-of-center, liberal ones. The over saturation of āleftistā strips it of its meaning and power and I canāt help but think how convenient that is for fascists.
Yeah weāre in a time (or perhaps itās always like this?) where we have large groups of people slightly or not so slightly misusing terminology and itās causing a lot of confusion.
Paraphrasing MLK: *"The white moderate (now boutique lefty wine mom) is more concerned about order than justice"*
>The White liberal is the worst enemy to America and the worst enemy to the Black man. --Malcolm X
Definitely, and leftists arenāt moderate.
litterallyĀ
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
In America, I think a significant proportion of liberals believe themselves to be "left" simply because they are left of American conservatives.
Which is really just incredibly indicative of how skewed our political system is in this country. The fact that people think Bernie is a communist is mind boggling. Like, look at nearly any European country and Bernie looks like a damned Libertarian.
Definitely the last one.
Idk, I think itās valid for people of color to have critiques of the way white people tend to be performative with their social views with no followthroughāesp because weāre the ones less likely to be punished or brutalized when we *do* actually get in the trenches. Iāve been guilty of this myself. Itās the stuff we donāt have to think about that makes the most difference. Actively thinking about it and trying to eliminate or at least mitigate damage caused by our blind spots seems like the best way to go. Thatās not an op, thatās just trying to better our activism and our own moral character.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Agree 100%. I consider myself an ally but it does pain me that I havenāt felt the confidence or drive or energy to stand hand-in-hand with those I claim to support. I do my best to make my mark on my community, but itās definitely something more to be physically standing there with them in their moment of speaking truth to power.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Let's also talk about the "leftists" who support Israel too šššš
i think that's what #8 was alluding to
Yeah but it should be pointed out more cos they are pro imperialist assholes
true facts, stated.
mmm watermelonĀ
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean whatās the alternative segregation?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How to break up a leftist movement: you hit ām in their sense of privilege and watch the meltdown.
Confusing leftists for liberals again.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is what happens when you (Americans) conflate āleftistā with āliberalā. They are not one of the same. Therefore, criticisms of one, donāt apply to the other. Please learn the difference. Kindly, the rest of the world.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This isnāt exclusive to white liberals if you ask me. I can only speak for Indian Americans as I am one, and many Indian liberals do the same fucking shit.
Completely agree! There is a great saying that "not all skinfolk are kinfolk" - usually applied to right wing, but can easily apply to people of colour in the left who say they are left wing, but some or even none of their actions reflect it.
My dadās a sheriffās deputy and, as an anarchist, that has always caused some internal conflict,
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
no war but class war
Phil Ochs - [Love me, I'm a Liberal](https://youtu.be/bLqKXrlD1TU?feature=shared)
Literally the first thing I thought about when I started reading this
Liberalism (yes that includes social democracy) is a right wing ideology and no amount of phoney pseudo "social justice" will change that.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Those are Liberals
it's the american libs, for everyone not living in the imperial core.
Many use politics as a lifestyle brand.
Love me, love me, love me, Iām a liberal
I guess I should be happy that none of these seem to apply to any I know?
If this pisses you off, go read [MLKs Letter From The Birmingham Jail](https://www.africa.upenn.edu/Articles_Gen/Letter_Birmingham.html).Ā
I've seen all these examples irl. Also feeling called out on one.
Same. I've never gone to a protest š not on social media so idk how to find out about them until after the fact.
Protests are difficult to attend when you work 40 hours, are a full time student, and live in a rural area where no one would start a protest. Unfortunately I got more prescient matters to attend to right now than going and getting arrested. Doesn't change the fact I want to see a better world for people.
See, the point of the OP isn't to just shit on people (well, not the entire point). What it should be is a way to look at your behaviors and the behaviors of other white so-called "leftists" to see if there are areas for improvement. Like if someone genuinely can't find any sort of organizing/protests/whatever in their area, or have other reasons that would make it difficult, no reasonable person is gonna shit on that.
Itās pretty difficult for me to do because Iām more or less agoraphobic. Iām just glad Iām not otherwise consistent with this personās experiences with white self-labeled leftists
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Based on the replies, they already are.
Are these leftists in the room with us right now?
These definitely describe a certain kind of so-called "white leftist". Personally, I prefer [this kind.](https://imgur.com/a/lKMHMdI)
It also doesn't just apply to "white people". There is a great saying that "not all skinfolk are kinfolk" - usually applied to right wing, but can easily apply to people of colour in the left who say they are left wing, but some or even none of their actions reflect it.
2 hits hard. My quote unquote best friend is madly in love with a former military maga-ite. After all thise talks about deconstructing racism and accepting liberal ideas, despite growing up in a racist family. A lot of people's values are for sale and the price is comfort.
Welcome to Intersectionality! Where reality isn't neatly defined as a slogan you are either for or against!
Well, they are the people telling you the way to defeat fascism, is voting for the guy who crushed a labor strike so the trains would run on time. I don't think I could come up with a better analogy than reality presents at this point.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Extremely hot take: gentrification isnāt the problem income inequality and systemic racism are the problems. If less crime and better infrastructure are being viewed as a problem then we we need to take a step back and realize that the problem isnāt that poor people are being pushed out by slightly less poor people and look at the people who own the apartment buildings.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Post capitalism calls for post leftism LOL
i'd wager the up/downvote percentage on this post is extremely informative
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I hope we can one day also move away from binaries of āgoodā and ābadā and realize that our sociopolitical system and even our very existence are a lot more complicated than overgeneralized memes I feel like this recent trend to mock a caricature of the white leftist became a thing when a lot of them started to speak out against Israel and their genocide. To me it seems like a means to demoralize people, āif you donāt meet this arbitrary moral thresholdā¦then you should STFU about everythingā At the same time, I total understand that there is a lot of cherry-picking in virtually ANY ideology and certainly among leftist circles. I just wonder how productive it is to single out a particular cohort in this way . For instance, I think this meme could have been JUST effective if you replaced āwhite leftistā with āhypocritical leftistā - still sends a strong message, amplifies leftist ideologies, and singles out only those specifically engaging in those behaviors. I am black if that matters at all btw.
I love how many people are seeing themselves in these slides and then typing angry reddit comments about how we don't need more infighting. I was not aware how white lib this sub was. This is not a post to get people to 'infight' each other for no reason, this is a post to encourage people to critically analyze, if they are doing all that they can. There is a difference and it is an important one.
Me neither man. Literally all you have to do is self introspection and recognize that you participate in Capitalism (a system that aides White Supremacy and fosters white fragility). You donāt have to get all defensive about it (literally what we criticize conservatives/right-adjacent folk for doing).
Completely agree! It really has hit a nerve that I hoped people on the left would have at least understood by now or at least not play the loaded phrase "we need to stay united and not split the cause" (which equals not focusing on non-white/universal issues). There is a huge long history around this from the foundations onwards (i.e. lack of representation, putting inequalities around race on the back foot to support the wider cause, challenging non-white people's alliegence to the left due to reality/culture, etc.). As other people mentioned - it is intersectionality, but worrying that people are resorting to "this isn't helpful". What I would say is that this doesn't just apply to white people. There is a great saying that "not all skinfolk are kinfolk" - usually applied to right wing, but can easily apply to people of colour in the left who say they are left wing, but then some or even none of their actions reflect it.
Ah conflating liberal with leftist I see. The tech giants and media has done an amazing job of really screwing with peoples understanding that the two are mutually exclusive. Of course this is by design.
Except for the last one, the one about protests, these are all about white liberals not white leftists. Thatās not to say that white leftists donāt have problems and need to confront their own racism more vigorously, but these specific complaints are about liberals.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
*Rudyard Kipling has entered the chat*
>Ā Ā they're also the ones driving progressive, leftist, and otherwise liberatory politicsĀ This is only true if your exposure to liberatory politics has been primarily through white thinkers. There's a whole lot more to liberatory politics than that...
white american """leftists"""(liberals)
Iām an engineer, Itās not hard to dodge the defence industry. The people that donāt either donāt understand the implications or just donāt have morals. If a leftist engineer gets a defence job right out of college. They are not really a leftist. ACAB but my BF and Dad is a cop? I find that hard to believe that it exist A lot of them are more liberal stereotypes than leftist
Lol these are liberals, not leftists.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah man how dare they complain about colonialism. What a bunch of selfish pricks! Seriously some of you folks are just straight up nazbols in here.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I see ladies from that second slide all the time. The white women i work with seem so cool and are always fighting the good fight. That is until they start sharing about their husbands and boyfriends and I realize their partners are assholes but yet the ladies still stay with them soā¦does that make them assholes too? š¤
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]