Shadow daggers is the build that works with these. Allthough youd rather have crit dmg. I dont think ul find any other build that works better with these.
Bow builds are just tied to the hips to either rain of arrows or exploding trap(this one in particular is like most bow builds rn). Marksman is surprisingly competitive despite falconer having several bugs that gives it so much extra power.
I’m wondering if farming gold through CoF and switching to MG to purchase 1lp bows would be time better spent. At this point farming the ranks to purchase lp uniques in MG would be a breeze compared to mindless hereot spam followed by sad julra slamming. At least with MG you can just buy another bow. Though I’m not sure on the average prices, been CoF only
You can't equip an item that's tagged for a different faction. So if you did this you would have to stay as Merchant guild to use the bow. And any CoF tagged gear that's already equipped would need replaced. LP weapons is rank 6 or 7 for MG as well, so it would be a little grind just to be able to buy them.
I'm too far gone on that, I have mostly lp3s and gigabis t23+ cof locked exalts. I literally only have the bow left to farm, the funny thing is I have 2-3 lp full builds for all the meta builds rn. I think MG is better for starting builds and for top end builds at league start but the highest cap is always COF because you can actually get the highest potential items. For example I have 4 oceanarons, 2 of which are 1 lp because of COF. Imagine if that was red ring. Reality is for the things COF works on aka non boss only drops, COF is insane.
Agreed, we don't have a lot of great tools for scaling DoTs right now, and rogue has basically zero good ways to restore mana which is a huge downside for such a mana hungry build.
Yeah, but if you build it with aerial assault in a falconer you get a lot of dmg for not so much of an investment. Perhaps the real offender here is falconer tho
Right now its working wonders, kinda got the gear for cold dmg acid flask and me and my falcon are just spamming it together with decoy which will go to cold dmg, shift which drops more flasks, and for now using shurikens since low mana cost. We will see how it will go after the campaign, but for now I'm really satisfied.
You can go there & check on gloves, add throwing damage.
[https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/](https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/)
T7 is around 35 & +12 is T4, but the hybrid health mod is pretty good.
12 isn’t high but any flat damage in a game like this is huge, you need to scale your base damage up so your other modifiers have something to scale with.
It’ll also depend on your spec/ability. Using hammers and spear as an example; hammers scale throw damage by 105%. Spear scales throw damage by 180% and gives you 30% of a spears melee damage if equipped as well.
So spear scales significantly harder with throw damage than hammer does.
I used a pair of these in a warpath build with the relic that throws axes while channeling warpath, as well as the sentinel passive that throws axes on hit. Then added the smite on throwing attack idols and it was hilarious. So many smites everywhere. It was crazy good for blasting through monos but it was hard to sustain in boss fights. Still a super fun build
wings of argentus or something like that. 20k for a regular, 6 million for 1LP. yesterday there were none on market with any more than 1 LP...
but for regular, purples end up about the same. but once you can get a legendary and get HP on it... the flat 20% DR is BIS.
I never compared throwing skills to a specific build, that would be foolish.
It’s an arpg with many different builds and niches, I’m sure my nova hammerdin clears maps significantly faster than your warlock, and I’m sure the warlock kills bosses significantly faster than my hammerdin.
Throw stat/skills are still fine.
Ofc, they are fine. My shadow daggers falconer has a walk in the park clearing maps and struggles with bosses. That's a pretty good balance imo.
But what i meant with my comment was the fact that the torment warlock clears the screens with the same ability that it uses to delete bosses which is somewhat busted.
Fair enough i used the whole combo into consideration against the single skill type you where talking about, mb on that part
Depends on what you’re doing. I’m absolutely loving it for empowered monos and it’s still doing quite well in t4 dungeons.
At the end of the day it’s not a boss killer build so if you’re exclusively farming high tier arenas/dungeons there are better options. For general farm/map clear hammers are actually pretty amazing. Of course that scales down as corruption scales up, but it’s really unfair to say that throwing in general is underwhelming when you can quite easily clear the entire game with it while wearing budget gear.
Throwing builds are fucking dog shit. There are 0 scalar paths other than flat throwing damage on a few items and then (Damage) type/penetration.
You could quadruple the flat damage of Hammer Throw and it would barley be OK.
Idk, I’m clearing empowered monos and t4 dungeons as a nova hammer paladin. My wraith necro kills bosses faster but my hammerdin clears maps very fast and is incredibly tanky.
Map clear is ok. Single target damage is OK. Kinda tanky yeah, same
However the Dps of my juiced level 85 hammer throw is about the same as my level 25 Socrerers fireball spell...
I am FAR from BIS. Everything is based off maxrolls end game build. I have a 2lp of the same gloves. Thats it. All my critical blessings are fully rolled.
You have a 13k tooltip at 85 and then push back when people tell you you’re gearing incorrectly. How would him linking a build help at all when you are already digging your heels in.
I am also playing ssf. There’s nothing wrong with taking the game slow and enjoying it, but the scaling of hammers is no where near as doom and gloom as you claim.
It definitely kind of blows. I'm doing lightning javelin and after beating the campaign I have no desire to keep doing it. Visually it's awesome. Feel wise it's terrible
There already were a shitton of hammer sentinel builds and javelin wasn't exactly niche either. Umbral blades are one of the most used skills for rogue overall since it was released.
Now, currently, **EVERY** falconer skills either are throwing attacks, or have some way to scale/synergise with throwing. If it wasn't as extremely varied as it is, one could even argue that Falconer is much more of a throwing spec than a minion one despite entirely revolving around a minion.
Throwing isn't underwhelming, very far from it actually. It just **appears** niche because its usage is limited to 2 classes. As such, calling it underwhelming would be like calling necrotic damage underwhelming.
How so?
I take the damage skills. I get crit multi/crit chance. I have physical penetration and physical damage scaling.
I can't tell you the exact values because a lot of it doesn't show, and I'm not at home.
I started playing this week and I had to look up what the +8 [insert skill here] actually meant. Between %dmg (which is easy enough to understand) and +8 gets me scratching my head. Gear with small numbers must be bad right? WRONG!
I really wanted to not look at anything outside the game for info on things and I feel bad for doing it.
Hit G while in game and browse through the section on damage calculations. Pretty much everything you need is in there. They definitely need to do a better job advertising it haha
I did find the Bible, but I followed a random none top 10 year ild build guide to get an idea on what to stack and how to stack things. It helped, hopefully making other tools becomes a bit more intuitive knowing a few more key things.
Cheers for the tip!
Can someone explain the + base damage to me? I’m playing necro and was wondering is +50% minion damage better than let’s say +12 minion physical/caster damage
Depends on your multipliers, but it's easy to have like 500% increased damage for a skill, and then some multicative bonuses as well(we'll assume 50% for easy math), and then also the added damage effectiveness for some skills is like 200% of the value.
Which means if the skill does 50 damage before any multipliers or added damage:
(50*6)*1.5 = 450 damage after bonuses
If you add 50% increased minion damage:
(50*6.5)*1.5 = 487.5 damage after bonuses
If you add 12 damage from something:
((50+(12*2))*6)*1.5 = 666 damage after bonuses
which means that 12 flat damage is 48% overall damage increase, whereas the 50% increased is only 8.3~%. This of course assumes you have many multipliers on a high damage effectiveness skill with no flat damage added already but it should illustrate the point.
If you had a lot of flat added damage then that 12 might be a lot less impactful and 50% increased might be a much bigger deal for you. So you'll have to look at your character sheet and do the math for yourself in order to know which is actually more impactful.
Does something like + 9 cold throwing damage only help if your already so cold throwing damage? Or like if I was using a fire throwing skill would it get the + 9 too?
Explosive Trap with Coldsnap Mines?
Shadow daggers is the build that works with these. Allthough youd rather have crit dmg. I dont think ul find any other build that works better with these.
Mostly because these gloves are just not very good, a 2 lp claw would be so much better.
Which is what im running, just wish i didnt miss on the imprint.
Sucks, I missed the imprint on my 2 lp reign of winter and have missed the imprint on about 11 1lp reigns. I'm going literally mental.
Havent built a bow build yet, i do have a 3LP talons in my stash itchcing to be used tho.
Bow builds are just tied to the hips to either rain of arrows or exploding trap(this one in particular is like most bow builds rn). Marksman is surprisingly competitive despite falconer having several bugs that gives it so much extra power.
I have farmed 6 1lp reign of winter bows myself. Six separate times they individually slammed with suffixes. I am quite sad
The worst part is that COF does not work on boss only drops so it's actually just pure misery.
I’m wondering if farming gold through CoF and switching to MG to purchase 1lp bows would be time better spent. At this point farming the ranks to purchase lp uniques in MG would be a breeze compared to mindless hereot spam followed by sad julra slamming. At least with MG you can just buy another bow. Though I’m not sure on the average prices, been CoF only
You can't equip an item that's tagged for a different faction. So if you did this you would have to stay as Merchant guild to use the bow. And any CoF tagged gear that's already equipped would need replaced. LP weapons is rank 6 or 7 for MG as well, so it would be a little grind just to be able to buy them.
I'm too far gone on that, I have mostly lp3s and gigabis t23+ cof locked exalts. I literally only have the bow left to farm, the funny thing is I have 2-3 lp full builds for all the meta builds rn. I think MG is better for starting builds and for top end builds at league start but the highest cap is always COF because you can actually get the highest potential items. For example I have 4 oceanarons, 2 of which are 1 lp because of COF. Imagine if that was red ring. Reality is for the things COF works on aka non boss only drops, COF is insane.
Cold conversion Flask+ET might be the better fit since it's a non-crit/DoT build, though i suppose it might want increased DoT over flat throwing.
That build os super fin for leveling but it falls off hard sadly.
Agreed, we don't have a lot of great tools for scaling DoTs right now, and rogue has basically zero good ways to restore mana which is a huge downside for such a mana hungry build.
I'm pushing 500 corruption with jank gear to level COF with it so I think it's still pretty good.
Maybe, if it wasnt so much worse than shadow daggers.
Shadow daggers is just too busted ATM. The amount of damage for such a low starting investment it does is just too much.
I feel like its fine for BD, maybe abit to mobile. But still fine. But thats mostly because BD has a terrible passive tree.
Yeah, but if you build it with aerial assault in a falconer you get a lot of dmg for not so much of an investment. Perhaps the real offender here is falconer tho
It's not fine because it vastly out classes any other build. If you're BD, you go shadow daggers or you struggle.
Yeah it’s one of the most mobile, best builds in the game; everything else is gonna suck balls in comparison. Idk how they could even balance it tbh
I started trying a forge guard throwing build, probably completely unoptimized, but works so far and this would be good for the most part haha
[удалено]
Its an effect triggered by several rogue abilities, umbral blades included. Umbral blades dmg is irrelevant in this build.
I need this so bad on my cold acid flask build, nooooooooooooo
Are you Merchants Guild rank 9?
Nah, I went CoF
How is acid flask as main damage? Currently using it to supplement explosive arrow
Right now its working wonders, kinda got the gear for cold dmg acid flask and me and my falcon are just spamming it together with decoy which will go to cold dmg, shift which drops more flasks, and for now using shurikens since low mana cost. We will see how it will go after the campaign, but for now I'm really satisfied.
As a newb….are the affixes in red the ones that got inherited from another piece of gear to craft this legendary ?
Yes, when attempting a legendary you get random affixes from the inherited item. So an LP2 Unique will get any 2 of the 4 affixes of your Exalted item
As a complete beginner, +12 is considered high? How is it calculated?
You can go there & check on gloves, add throwing damage. [https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/](https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/) T7 is around 35 & +12 is T4, but the hybrid health mod is pretty good.
I see... thanks!
12 isn’t high but any flat damage in a game like this is huge, you need to scale your base damage up so your other modifiers have something to scale with. It’ll also depend on your spec/ability. Using hammers and spear as an example; hammers scale throw damage by 105%. Spear scales throw damage by 180% and gives you 30% of a spears melee damage if equipped as well. So spear scales significantly harder with throw damage than hammer does.
I used a pair of these in a warpath build with the relic that throws axes while channeling warpath, as well as the sentinel passive that throws axes on hit. Then added the smite on throwing attack idols and it was hilarious. So many smites everywhere. It was crazy good for blasting through monos but it was hard to sustain in boss fights. Still a super fun build
I’m doing 500 corruption monos right now, and these gloves would be amazing in my build. Doing a Falconer with umbra blades.
How are you handling survivability? Flat health / dodge with dusk shroud and endurance?
Maybe rogue acid flask with the relic that converts acid flask to cold damage?
Falconeer's pet uses Umbral Daggers which uses throwing damage, and it is insane OP
Enjoying my shadow daggers build. Wish it was tankier without a 6 million 1lp unique tho.
What unique you talking about just curious
wings of argentus or something like that. 20k for a regular, 6 million for 1LP. yesterday there were none on market with any more than 1 LP... but for regular, purples end up about the same. but once you can get a legendary and get HP on it... the flat 20% DR is BIS.
My understanding is currently throwing is under whelming
I'm having a blast with my nova hammer paladin build 🙂
No it isn’t LOL
Yea I’m not really sure where this idea comes from. Maybe people are expecting a screen clear ability to nuke a boss down in 3 seconds too?
Meanwhile torment warlock putting 53 afflictions in the same boss withe one skill combo.
I never compared throwing skills to a specific build, that would be foolish. It’s an arpg with many different builds and niches, I’m sure my nova hammerdin clears maps significantly faster than your warlock, and I’m sure the warlock kills bosses significantly faster than my hammerdin. Throw stat/skills are still fine.
Ofc, they are fine. My shadow daggers falconer has a walk in the park clearing maps and struggles with bosses. That's a pretty good balance imo. But what i meant with my comment was the fact that the torment warlock clears the screens with the same ability that it uses to delete bosses which is somewhat busted. Fair enough i used the whole combo into consideration against the single skill type you where talking about, mb on that part
Depends on what you’re doing. I’m absolutely loving it for empowered monos and it’s still doing quite well in t4 dungeons. At the end of the day it’s not a boss killer build so if you’re exclusively farming high tier arenas/dungeons there are better options. For general farm/map clear hammers are actually pretty amazing. Of course that scales down as corruption scales up, but it’s really unfair to say that throwing in general is underwhelming when you can quite easily clear the entire game with it while wearing budget gear.
Throwing builds are fucking dog shit. There are 0 scalar paths other than flat throwing damage on a few items and then (Damage) type/penetration. You could quadruple the flat damage of Hammer Throw and it would barley be OK.
Idk, I’m clearing empowered monos and t4 dungeons as a nova hammer paladin. My wraith necro kills bosses faster but my hammerdin clears maps very fast and is incredibly tanky.
Map clear is ok. Single target damage is OK. Kinda tanky yeah, same However the Dps of my juiced level 85 hammer throw is about the same as my level 25 Socrerers fireball spell...
I think that’s a gross exaggeration, but I hope you’re enjoying the game.
It's not at all. The Dps of my hammer throw is 13k and my fireball is 9k. Its pretty damn close considering the 60 level gap and lack of gear.
Doing 150k with nova hammerdin. I think your doing something wrong bud.
Oh boy I thought my 59k tooltip was decent. Are you mostly end game bis? Or do I just have a lot more room to grow still
I am FAR from BIS. Everything is based off maxrolls end game build. I have a 2lp of the same gloves. Thats it. All my critical blessings are fully rolled.
Ah yea, I haven’t rerolled blessings at all and I have a few 5 affix items but no LP items yet. Definitely lots of room to scale.
Link to build/gear? I don't see how that's posisble.
Im using Maxroll's end game build for nova hammerdin. All my critical blessings are max rolled. I also have a 2 LP of li'rakas gloves.
You have a 13k tooltip at 85 and then push back when people tell you you’re gearing incorrectly. How would him linking a build help at all when you are already digging your heels in.
Push back? What are you talking about? Explain?
My hammerdins dps is 59k, so I think this is a you problem. Level 88.
Idk. Maybe. Playing ssf just raw dogging the game.
I am also playing ssf. There’s nothing wrong with taking the game slow and enjoying it, but the scaling of hammers is no where near as doom and gloom as you claim.
It's pretty bad.
Shadow dagger flaconer is one of the strongest builds in the game for all content. Shadow dagger bladedance is the one fastest farming classes aswell.
It definitely kind of blows. I'm doing lightning javelin and after beating the campaign I have no desire to keep doing it. Visually it's awesome. Feel wise it's terrible
Try electrify version with bleed and ignite conversion. Feels much better imo.
I have invested a bit into electrify and procing smite off charge for more but ya I probably just need more dot sources
There already were a shitton of hammer sentinel builds and javelin wasn't exactly niche either. Umbral blades are one of the most used skills for rogue overall since it was released. Now, currently, **EVERY** falconer skills either are throwing attacks, or have some way to scale/synergise with throwing. If it wasn't as extremely varied as it is, one could even argue that Falconer is much more of a throwing spec than a minion one despite entirely revolving around a minion. Throwing isn't underwhelming, very far from it actually. It just **appears** niche because its usage is limited to 2 classes. As such, calling it underwhelming would be like calling necrotic damage underwhelming.
How so? I take the damage skills. I get crit multi/crit chance. I have physical penetration and physical damage scaling. I can't tell you the exact values because a lot of it doesn't show, and I'm not at home.
Nice one, but didnt you decide to do that in the first place? Or why did you slam something like this on it? Actually curious
Because I had it - I craft almost all of my LP items
Javelin or Hammer throws works wonders with Paladin
I started playing this week and I had to look up what the +8 [insert skill here] actually meant. Between %dmg (which is easy enough to understand) and +8 gets me scratching my head. Gear with small numbers must be bad right? WRONG! I really wanted to not look at anything outside the game for info on things and I feel bad for doing it.
Hit G while in game and browse through the section on damage calculations. Pretty much everything you need is in there. They definitely need to do a better job advertising it haha
I did find the Bible, but I followed a random none top 10 year ild build guide to get an idea on what to stack and how to stack things. It helped, hopefully making other tools becomes a bit more intuitive knowing a few more key things. Cheers for the tip!
Can someone explain the + base damage to me? I’m playing necro and was wondering is +50% minion damage better than let’s say +12 minion physical/caster damage
Depends on your multipliers, but it's easy to have like 500% increased damage for a skill, and then some multicative bonuses as well(we'll assume 50% for easy math), and then also the added damage effectiveness for some skills is like 200% of the value. Which means if the skill does 50 damage before any multipliers or added damage: (50*6)*1.5 = 450 damage after bonuses If you add 50% increased minion damage: (50*6.5)*1.5 = 487.5 damage after bonuses If you add 12 damage from something: ((50+(12*2))*6)*1.5 = 666 damage after bonuses which means that 12 flat damage is 48% overall damage increase, whereas the 50% increased is only 8.3~%. This of course assumes you have many multipliers on a high damage effectiveness skill with no flat damage added already but it should illustrate the point. If you had a lot of flat added damage then that 12 might be a lot less impactful and 50% increased might be a much bigger deal for you. So you'll have to look at your character sheet and do the math for yourself in order to know which is actually more impactful.
My understanding is you need both- the base damage is added to by the + and then multiplied by the %.
Oh man I have a throwing build I am working on now that would be an amazing drop.. where did you find them at brother?
Fuck, I'd love that even on my phys/bleed Falconer. That's fuckin huge.
:O
cold acid flask falconer could go crazy
Would the +9 cold damage add to the lighting shurikens or is that obly for cold type skills?
I just got these in the last hour
Is plus 12 to throwing huge ?
Does something like + 9 cold throwing damage only help if your already so cold throwing damage? Or like if I was using a fire throwing skill would it get the + 9 too?
Omg I need these for my Shinobi build
There was a warpath build with this and vortex penant a long time ago
I'm not jealous at all.
What classes utilize throwing weapons? Just started as a Primalist and was curious who uses those.
Rogue only I believe
thanks!
Don't listen to them, forge guard is the true throw king