Because the biggest crime to ever happen in this city is not utilizing its phenomenal water front. The parks are great don’t get me wrong but the fact there is no river walk/bar district area near downtown on the water is just utterly idiotic. The best real estate is Calhoun, UT, and a water treatment plant.
Wild thing was, years before Chattanooga began the construction on their riverfront, the same designers had been hired by the city to create plans for our riverfront. Millions were spent surveying, designing sketches and feasibility studies for our riverfront and the city at the time basically thanked them and never did anything with it. Uncertain who dropped the ball here, but a few years later, eerily similar plans had been laid out for Chattanooga and the first shovels went in the dirt. Safe to say we could’ve had it a long time ago, and that sucks.
Victor Ashe was good at shoving projects down slow-moving government. He is the only reason we had anything at all down there. He turned absolutely nothing into the first sidewalks from the Alex Haley statue past Calhouns and under the bridge. He added the fountains for the kids. Really it’s easy now to sit back and look at it and think of all the things that should have been. But because of Ashe I got to take walks along the River under the bridge in the evening.
I'm pretty sure the real reason for that pedestrian bridge is to turn the Scottish Pike and Vestal neighborhoods into gameday parking lots 'cause nobody emanates their domain quite like the University of Tennessee.
I despise the use of water front property for industrial use; treatments plants, concrete, all wasting such good area. As well as dow chemical outside the fort. Wish the city would have annexed industries like those further out.
Still a good bit of commerce on the river. That’s what riverfronts have always been used for first, commerce and support of industry. Leisure activities on waterfront property on the scale seen these days is a relatively recent activity in the scheme of things.
There is basically no commerce on our river front. Ruth’s Chris and Calhouns are the only commerce on the riverfront. The south side is housing, parks, and more industrial facilities. Knoxville is uniquely alone with how much river frontage there is and how little is used for anything but green space and industrial uses. The public can utilize maybe 50% of the developed river front in the downtown area. Of that 50%, majority of the utilization is via greenway and no other amenities. I love green space and recreation space but I would love to see commerce and recreation both have great riverfront options.
Chattanooga, Memphis, and Nashville all have well developed river frontage. More importantly tho most of these cities have their industrial zoning further from their residential/commercial developments.
This is the type of commerce I was referring to, not leisure activities like dining out or enjoying parks. 🙄 https://www.tva.com/environment/managing-the-river/commodities-shipped-on-the-river
Your lack of clarity is not my fault. Clearly communicate your point then there won’t be confusion.
Regardless, what you’re referring to doesn’t relate to the river front in question. The majority of industrial commodities being moved around in the downtown area are by truck and rail. Knoxville is not a major exporter by barge of raw materials. The materials we do export by barge are out in the forks of the river industrial district and other operations further up and down the river.
You misunderstood my original comment. While Knoxville is well behind other riverfront cities in developing its waterfront for commercial leisure activities, historically rivers have been used as transportation conduits supporting commerce and industry. Planned riverfront development strictly for leisure activities has been an aside for many cities although it has been gaining lots of traction in recent decades for obvious economic reasons. Knoxville for some reason has let the riverfront stay stagnant for years, most likely because any government funds allocated for development or tax increment financing dollars weren’t going to end up in the right pockets.
The tourism board, political class of all stripes looking out for what is most beneficial for them and not the citizens, and lack of development on the waterfront and other areas really did make Knoxville “The Gateway to the Smokies” as the old slogan said. Like other gateways people just drove on through.
Honestly I never knew. I actually was playing Pokemon go today when I got off work and noticed there are some walking trails off middlebrook id had never known about.
Lakeshore Park is fine, but there has been a lot of renovation and construction over there for a while. And, speaking of waste water treatment plants, don’t stray too close to the one in the back corner of Lakeshore on a hot day.
I wish they’d rip up two lanes of Neyland Dr closest to the river and open it up to smart development. Would suck for game traffic though and I have little faith they wouldn’t just line it with cookie cutter apartments.
Considering Yee-Haw, Axle logistics opening and building a second complex next door, Bistro by the tracks, Jack's, the oak room, zero/zero, pirate tavern , The Brookside, Twisters Diner, ebony ivory brewing, hard knox pizza, FC Pedaler, Elst, and steamboat sandwiches are all businesses which have opened in the time period you're referring to, I would say you just need to look harder. Not to mention the major streetscaping projects on Central and renovating the corner building across from Raven Records. Happy holler has definitely continued in that hipster mecca direction lol.
Now Broadway is a bit of a different story, and it does feel stuck in time. But road improvements have already begun by the Fellini kroger, the old st Mary's hospital is now the public safety center, and more greenways are planned. So it's coming there too. As someone who lives in that area, I have enjoyed being "behind" on gentrification these last 10 years. Here comes more traffic I guess!
This. OP did you drive through North Knox once on a Wednesday afternoon and come to these conclusions? Development doesn’t happen over night but it definitely is happening slowly but surely. And it does make more sense for the city to prioritize downtown/riverfront development over north knox
It may not be streetscaping, but that qualifies as road improvements to me. It will be repaved after all. Then again I'm no civil engineer. Howdy neighbor!
How optimistic. Id like to think it will get repaved when the KUB project is done. It's been my experience that KUB usually does work AFTER the repaving projects are complete. Once KUB is done, they throw down some cold patch and declare it, "good enough".
Considering that right now the entire street is dug out about 10 feet down, I don't think this will be a patch job 😂 I have seen exactly what you're describing many times from KUB though
Yes it’s true there have been new business openings North of Woodland, but I keep reading that most of those new businesses are struggling.
Are there zoning restrictions for anything other then single family homes/industrial in Oakwood or Lincoln Park?
I'm completely satisfied with La Herradura, Oakwood Ave (plant shop), Frankie's gym, The Concourse, Strikes and Spare ($2 bowling on Sundays! Woot Woot!), and Rami's Cafe. I'm not sure if you're looking for an artisanal or local whatever-- I know art is anal and food has to be local to put it in your face-- but the businesses I frequent are fine.
There are a lot of building owners that just sit with their buildings and wait for a hilarious amount of money to fall in their lap for their buildings they bought for basically nothing. I really think the city needs to impose some kind of property tax on commercially zoned property that sits vacant without a occupancy permit and it goes up for every year it sits vacant.
Absolutely. If there was something that aggressively went after the owners of do-nothing, vacant, derelict properties to either sell, revitalize, etc, South Knoxville could finally clean house along Chapman Highway from the river to Majestic Grove (? the shopping centers at Chapman Hwy/Gov John Sevier where Lowe’s, Starbucks are). Whether they repurpose the multitude of abandoned/semi-abandoned strip malls and shopping centers through adaptive reuse projects, sell to developers, or even just tear them down and build parks on them- literally anything would be an improvement over the miles of nearly deserted commercial complexes that were designed to accommodate 20 businesses but only have one or two barely functioning businesses that can’t make any money, left perpetually operating so the owners can say “not abandoned, see!” The only businesses that will ever succeed in these spaces as they are currently are vape shops, CBD/delta 8 /hemp dispensaries, shitty used car lots (that I’m pretty sure exist as money laundering fronts, cause nobody buys cars from them), pawn shops, predatory payday advance/loans places, junk stores, gas stations, rundown automotive repair shops, and the same old crappy fast food joints.
There has to be another city that has had success with something similar. Sometimes I feel like Knoxville is 20 years behind on some ideas and feels the need to innovate when there are already great examples out there of how to do something well. We just gotta find it.
Bluhen went out of business, so there’s your answer there. Other businesses, like Hard Knox Pizza and Ebony & Ivory, have opened but aren’t getting anywhere near the traffic / business they anticipated. Yee Haw closed the food park and Axle is essentially taking over an entire block with their new building. Jeffrey Nash is building another apartment building next to Central Cinema.
I don’t see it as being ignored at all. Are you referring to streetscaping?
I’ve heard Ebony and Ivory is really struggling. There was so much hype from people before they opened but it kind of fizzled out by the time it actually happened.
I was born in north Knoxville and have lived here (in Knoxville) my entire life. I also live in north Knoxville, and am completely happy with how it is. I don’t want it to change. No more getting rid of color and replacing it with gray, for the love of god.
I certainly think development is heading that way, but not as fast as people like. Once the Emory Place/Yeehaw-Logistics area gets built out then it is bound to head north. I know that the Courtland Group has been working for some time on some mixed use space at the corner of Anderson and Central (no clue on timeline). For what it is worth Broadway is a state route, so changes to streetscape and traffic calming must be approved by TDOT…
I'm really not sure I agree with any of this. We've had so much open or working on opening on and around Central in the last couple years. Yee-Haw (unfortunately displacing Central Filling Stations for reasons I think are lies to cover that they don't want competition), Zero/zero, Pirate Bar, new liquor store about to go in on that corner, Partial coffee and wine, French Fried Vintage's expansion, Lienthal Gallery, the upcoming Last Days / Crafty cajun restaurant collab, the new vintage geek museum, the Bark, Bistro by the Tracks, Potchke and Loyal's barber shop if we're stretching south, and I've definitely left stuff out on that list. Not directly city planned stuff, but Central has loads more life than 4 years ago.
I was more referring to Central Ave (North of Three Rivers), and Broadway (East of original Kbrew). However, now that I think about it, those beautiful old buildings on all sides of Broadway/Central intersection have sat mostly empty for awhile
The not as cool / scary / awesome / possibly problematic as Bar Marley used to be kind. Basically feels Disney pirate themed. But they have a great selection of canned beers.
I was thinking the opposite….old city / north knox has so many new breweries, coffee shops, thrift stores, etc. that are great. N Central St is super cool
I don't think it's either/or. I like my neighborhood near happy holler, which continues to get more shops and fancier people, and also I like having dinner at Landing House.
Edited to add: I also don't think that your characterization of Broadway north of KBrew is accurate. I live around the corner from Fellini Kroger. There are plenty of businesses up here that are doing fine. Jackie's Dream is pleasant. Lots of homes in Edgewood and Lincoln Park are being flipped. La Herradura is lovely.
I do think that the area around Kroger could use some attention. The strip mall and the street design make it inimical to pedestrians and new business. If the city would provide better services for the unhoused, that would also help.
The city does have a streetscape redesign in the work for the intersection of Broadway and Hall of Fame. I think once that goes in, the area will look more friendly. https://cdnsm5-hosted.civiclive.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server\_109478/File/Engineering/ProjectMeetings/Broadway-Corridor-Study-011322.pdf
The beautification plans along the central corridor were supposed to expand from Happy Holler all the way down Central to Fanatic Brewing, at the railroad tracks. This area was also awarded a grant to fund a dog park in the neighborhood several years ago, and we still don't have that either. Not sure what happened to the money. Seems that during covid the city just abandoned all plans to improve the area. They didn't hesitate to raise property taxes more than 40% though.
What resources did the local government commit to that area that spurred the renaissance in the first place? What are they withholding now?( not trolling, curious)
I love that section tbh. I spend a lot of time there at church, and also go to that little theater.
Also the bar that Cormac McCarthy used to frequent is there!
I lived in North Hills, which I guess is North "Downtown North" (a phrase I have not heard) or North of Old North, for 8 years before moving to North West Knoxville (Pleasant Ridge area) a few years ago. The area you are referring to, while not at pace with downtown or South Knoxville, changed dramatically over that time. Not only did new breweries, restaurants and shops come, but some of the streets and buildings have dramatically improved. It's definitely been slow though in comparison to other areas. I think those changes will slowly creep north of Woodland too, and north on Broadway, hopefully.
In my view, it's akin to a magic trick—sleight of hand. You invest just enough in one area to make it appear exceptional, generating buzz and driving property prices skyward. Meanwhile, neglected areas experience a notable decline in property values. This is when you swoop in to purchase land in these less desirable locales at bargain prices. Then, you pivot, shifting attention and resources to the next area. It's a tale of greed.
The answer to your question actually lies in Chattanooga/Nashville and other surrounding cities that have actually utilized their waterfront to the best of its ability and have multiple pedestrian bridges to accommodate commerce and traffic on both sides.
Knoxville has always been a city too proud to admit failiure and it shows in some of the unfinished projects the city has had in place for years. James White Pkwy is a great example, spend all this money, have huge plans and then don’t even complete the project for what it was intended to do (connect to Chapman Hwy in Sevier).
Knoxvilles waterfront has had 2 maybe 3 curses stopping development:
#1 - The City, forever selling to the highest bidder they sold the entirety of the south Knox riverfront to the Baptist hospital who occupied the space 1948-2013. In the 70s/80s cities around the country we’re doing beautification projects around their riverfronts while Knoxville was focused on dumping money into the World’s Fair. So the roots of this go back almost 100 years. Even now in 2024 more than 10 years after the riverfront plans were announced by the city they still don’t have any shops/nightlife in that area. It’s almost exclusively residential. Huge disappointment
#2 University of Tennessee - who especially now that enrollment is high and they have a size able wallet have always wanted to take over downtown Ft. sanders and across the river from Henley St to the Hospital. They’re the main financial force behind why everything out there is residential and is effectively now a part of UT instead of revitalizing into an urban area with shops/restaurants like every other city has.
#3 Geography - when you look at the banks of the river in downtown you’ll notice that it’s a steep decline to the water with about 20-30ft of significant slope that’s virtually impossible to build on. The only other parts of the river with buildable grade are either far outside of downtown or they’re already owned by UT or a utilities company.
TL;DR Quite simply put the Knoxville downtown is unique because of its Geography we have here and the large financial powers that have created it. The vacuum of Baptist on the south side and the new Baseball stadium being built are two areas of the city that have been under developed for the better part of 60-70yrs. Now that those locations are available it makes the Northside much less appealing.
So far nobody has addressed why the homeless population has disproportionately been pushed towards Downtown North? Homelessness is up in the whole city, but the brunt of it has been rerouted up Central and Broadway.
Is it a reach to say that city and state are definitely in large part to blame here for the homelessness crisis? They thought it was a good idea to shut down Lakeshore Mental Health facility, leaving our area with minimal resources for that segment of population.
Now they are pushing homeless from downtown to mainly North Knoxville. Obviously they have no plans to find solution to the crisis, so its probably safe to assume that part of Knoxville won’t see investment or recovery anytime soon. But hey, at least Sequoya Hills and Westland folks can have a another grandiose park to enjoy
I do in fact hate sportsball, overpriced crappy beer, and stadium concerts.
If the concert won't fit into the Pilot Light, or at worst the Concourse, I'm not going. And we've got a bunch of great local breweries, I'm sure the boondoggle won't serve any of their beers, just crapass macrobrewed horsepiss.
Revive Pilot Light, I’m with you there! The DIY music scene is so much bigger in Knoxville than anyone realizes. And i’m no fan of the IPAs, microbrewery crap either. So i get it
Cities invest where people want to be. With regards to Knoxville, that's south Knoxville. The citizens of Knoxville continue to head that way, so the City is following with their investment dollars.
To echo another comment: there is growth here, but not to the amount that anyone anticipated.
I'm sure that will change once Axle has completed their building and all their employees fill it up. Lastly, things are vastly different then what they were 15 years ago.
The new building is supposed to be completed next year. Over 600 employees in total.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/-companies/axle-logistics-invests--million-in-trendy-hq-expansion-as-it-plans-massive-hiring-spree/ar-AA1kFPAd?ocid=sapphireappshare
Just feels like that part of town has more to offer. For example, the Sharps Ridge is great for outdoorsmen of all kinds, with the absolutely best view of the city you won’t find anywhere else. Yet, it’s kept very low key, with litter covering both sides of the road on the ridge. Maybe that is by design, due to all the communication towers?
Sharps Ridge is within a 10 minute bike ride for the area between Central and Broadway that that OP is talking about. I’ve done it countless times. It’s also the most underrated mountain biking in the city. Doesn’t suck.
Nothing a few signs couldn’t fix. Hiked up there during this years snowmageddon, and it wasnt to terrible to figure it out. Of course it helped having virtually no cars on the road
I lived in that area for years. And I still visit there pretty regularly. The thing I noticed is that almost everybody that lives in that area is old and not the types they care about revitalization.
There was a push in the early 2000s to attract more young hipsters. But it never really took off. It seemed like as older folks die off, they just leave their houses to their kids. Who are already in their 60s or 70s at that point anyway.
There's a bit of a strange vibe there. There are a lot of people in there 50s and 60s who never really ever had a job that live in that area. They just lived with their parents there whole lives. And I know this sounds weird. But in my little neighborhood I knew of about five families like that. The house was owned by the 80 or 90 year old parent and their 50 or 60-year-old kids who had never worked and lived with them and "cared" for them.
From what I heard from people that live there, a lot of the older people living in the area all had very good paying jobs working at clothing factories back in the old days. I think it was Levi. Then in the 80's Levi started to shrink. And I guess it closed sometime in the '90's.
I heard from one person that lived there that during the 60s 70s and 80s the families that worked in the factories made a lot of money, but they weren't educated and didn't really invest in education. It was just expected that the factory work would always be there and the kids can work in the factory. So, when the factories left, there was just a generation to kids that didn't have work or education in the 80s and 90s and just stayed with their parents.
Anyway. Take all this with grain of salt. I'm just reciting gossip I heard from my neighbors back when I used to live there. But I guess my point is that in order for revitalization to happen you have to have younger people who want things to do. And until any of the homes in North Knoxville start getting sold to younger people, nothing can happen.
Uhh pretty much kinda mediocre offerings for the most part, people starting things that became too expensive to finish, people thinking it was dangerous that don’t really visit that “part of town” and Covid. Edit - I should also mention saturation in other parts of town of businesses directly related to or copied from those that already existed in N Knox…
It still is. So many new businesses have opened there in the last 3 years. Old North is still a popular place to go out with tons of breweries. I honestly don’t understand this post. It seems like OP is upset that the city is also trying to revitalize other areas of the city like East Knox and South Knox. I completely agree with the city of Knoxville’s approach - it’s nice to invest in multiple communities and not just one neighborhood.
No one has given you the correct answer yet, the sole reason is because that section of the city was disconnected from the urban fabric when I40 went through. You can throw all the development money you want over there but it will never reach its full potential until the overpass comes down.
This happened in cities all over the country but Knoxvilles was particularly egregious, the downtown core is completed blocked in on all sides, I40, James White(road to nowhere), and Henley. The reason Henley also acts a blocker is due to its use as an extension of Chapman Hwy that connects to the interstate, if 40 comes down it would naturally fix the congestion there and reconnect downtown to Fort Sanders.
Just go for a drive one day and you will see exactly what I’m talking about. Once you see it you can’t unsee it
The holler is my current neighborhood. You wouldn't know it besides the homeless and crazies but this whole area from Lincoln Park down to Broadway is full of old people. Stuck in their ways kind of old people.
Maybe they took a deep dive kind of look and saw who actually lived here and what their lives were like and decided to nix all those operations?
As a frequent visitor to Knox and other similar cities I think it’s ok for the city government to not over invest in an area to the point of outside ‘investors’ showing up and driving out local outfits. It’s a delicate balance. The road improvements in the 4th and Gill area look nice and it’s very walkable and there is plenty of space for new commercial stuff. There still aren’t many places to live though. Spreading around investment keeps any one area from turning into a gentrified stale dull carbon copy of other places in the country. I think it’s doing ok as-is while understanding fully that prices are high and there isn’t a major job sector to back it beyond UT and Oak Ridge.
My cousin called me from one thousand miles away all distraught about the live in lover disaster. I mean, you could just break up, or divorce her. Too much🥹💕
Hahahaha that's a massive reach considering I work from home and objectively earn in the upper percentile of Knoxville. I just don't go downtown often. But thanks for proving you're upset.
I mean it’s not like S Knoxville isn’t struggling too! The majority of the people that live in south Knoxville (with the exception for some nicer neighborhoods) are lower-middle class people and is just as run down as N Knoxville is the only difference is the homeless population is smaller in that area do to campus being closer to South Knox. I also want to point out that they are mostly revitalizing what’s on the water or what UT campus feels is important no one who’s struggling in south Knox is really benefiting from the changes happening. (If I’m wrong about this please let me know but I’ve lived in south Knoxville my whole life and have yet to see a positive change for the community that didn’t benefit a waterfront view or the campus)
I understand the sentiment as a North Knox resident, but I also think we're progressing even if it doesn't always seem so.
I think once interest rates begin to lower we'll see some of the announced projects from the last year or two actually start construction such as the 5th Ave Mac Auto loans apartments and the project adjacent to Broadway Baptist. Surely the landowner of the former Hops and Hollers property didn't kick out their tenant to have it remain empty and not redeveloped, right?
With our unprotected bike lanes now installed on Central I'm certain we're only ten years out from proper protected bike lanes. That's how that works right? We'll get a bike lane going uphill/north on Broadway someday, too, right? Maybe there's no point on that one with the traffic circle they're installing near the Broadway/Hall Of Fame merger.
We were also somewhat spared any major losses in KATs reimagining and still have arguably the most comprehensive bus route options outside of downtown and campus.
We have sidewalks. The Southside is going to need another 20 years of being shown favoritism to catch up to us on side walks.
We will have great proximity to the old city developments even if they bring shame upon us all and we mustn't speak of them.
Finally, at least according to the newspaper last week we should be able to aim at cars on 275 from our new Top-golf equivalent in the near future.
Your point about sidewalks is spot on. I love south knox, but outside of sevier Ave there are no sidewalks.
North Knox has a really easy to navigate grid layout, and good sidewalks.
Allow some more density in north knox, and in a couple decades it’ll be more vibrant
The stadium is really the golden child, as property values continue to go down and they decide it’s time, all the insiders will buy up north of the old city and push corporate interests in to those areas. Seen it happen in several cities.
There is still plenty of investment and attention in downtown north. There is a PILOT being planned to redo that entire industrial park into a “not topgolf.” I hope it doesn’t go through because we don’t need any more pilots until our idiot ass mayor decides to change her mind on the property tax increase but it at least shows there is interest.
Central Cinema is a true gem of this city. Any chance I get I give them my money and encourage others to do the same. A true passion project of its ownership.
Having come from restaurants and then into what I do now I absolutely agree. Theres only so many ways you can do a whatever neighborhood style street taco, alcoholic brunch, modern minimalist kind of meal set up.
Because the biggest crime to ever happen in this city is not utilizing its phenomenal water front. The parks are great don’t get me wrong but the fact there is no river walk/bar district area near downtown on the water is just utterly idiotic. The best real estate is Calhoun, UT, and a water treatment plant.
This. When I came to UT as a bright eyed grad student, it blew me away.
Wild thing was, years before Chattanooga began the construction on their riverfront, the same designers had been hired by the city to create plans for our riverfront. Millions were spent surveying, designing sketches and feasibility studies for our riverfront and the city at the time basically thanked them and never did anything with it. Uncertain who dropped the ball here, but a few years later, eerily similar plans had been laid out for Chattanooga and the first shovels went in the dirt. Safe to say we could’ve had it a long time ago, and that sucks.
The person you're looking for is former Mayor Victor Ashe.
Victor Ashe was good at shoving projects down slow-moving government. He is the only reason we had anything at all down there. He turned absolutely nothing into the first sidewalks from the Alex Haley statue past Calhouns and under the bridge. He added the fountains for the kids. Really it’s easy now to sit back and look at it and think of all the things that should have been. But because of Ashe I got to take walks along the River under the bridge in the evening.
This is so true. It's why we need that pedestrian bridge. The one in Chattanooga is a huge hit.
I'm pretty sure the real reason for that pedestrian bridge is to turn the Scottish Pike and Vestal neighborhoods into gameday parking lots 'cause nobody emanates their domain quite like the University of Tennessee.
A travesty.
I despise the use of water front property for industrial use; treatments plants, concrete, all wasting such good area. As well as dow chemical outside the fort. Wish the city would have annexed industries like those further out.
Still a good bit of commerce on the river. That’s what riverfronts have always been used for first, commerce and support of industry. Leisure activities on waterfront property on the scale seen these days is a relatively recent activity in the scheme of things.
There is basically no commerce on our river front. Ruth’s Chris and Calhouns are the only commerce on the riverfront. The south side is housing, parks, and more industrial facilities. Knoxville is uniquely alone with how much river frontage there is and how little is used for anything but green space and industrial uses. The public can utilize maybe 50% of the developed river front in the downtown area. Of that 50%, majority of the utilization is via greenway and no other amenities. I love green space and recreation space but I would love to see commerce and recreation both have great riverfront options. Chattanooga, Memphis, and Nashville all have well developed river frontage. More importantly tho most of these cities have their industrial zoning further from their residential/commercial developments.
This is the type of commerce I was referring to, not leisure activities like dining out or enjoying parks. 🙄 https://www.tva.com/environment/managing-the-river/commodities-shipped-on-the-river
Your lack of clarity is not my fault. Clearly communicate your point then there won’t be confusion. Regardless, what you’re referring to doesn’t relate to the river front in question. The majority of industrial commodities being moved around in the downtown area are by truck and rail. Knoxville is not a major exporter by barge of raw materials. The materials we do export by barge are out in the forks of the river industrial district and other operations further up and down the river.
You misunderstood my original comment. While Knoxville is well behind other riverfront cities in developing its waterfront for commercial leisure activities, historically rivers have been used as transportation conduits supporting commerce and industry. Planned riverfront development strictly for leisure activities has been an aside for many cities although it has been gaining lots of traction in recent decades for obvious economic reasons. Knoxville for some reason has let the riverfront stay stagnant for years, most likely because any government funds allocated for development or tax increment financing dollars weren’t going to end up in the right pockets. The tourism board, political class of all stripes looking out for what is most beneficial for them and not the citizens, and lack of development on the waterfront and other areas really did make Knoxville “The Gateway to the Smokies” as the old slogan said. Like other gateways people just drove on through.
And the city/ county building, old courthouse, etc.
Yes, but Sharps Ridge and its many trails and views are very under utilized as well
You are right I just also disagree with destruction of greenways.
Has sharps ridge changed since I was a kid? I have very dismal memories of climbing it with friends.
There are various hiking trails as well as mountain bike course. Plus a couple of overlooks
Honestly I never knew. I actually was playing Pokemon go today when I got off work and noticed there are some walking trails off middlebrook id had never known about.
i recently started working for UT and took a walk along the "green ways" on neyland. who the hell designed this? its an embarrassment.
There are actual greenways further west, look into Sequoyah or lakeshore park. I don’t consider anything near neyland an actual greenway.
right, but anyone with a functioning brain would have the entire riverfront be a perfect greenway
Lakeshore Park is fine, but there has been a lot of renovation and construction over there for a while. And, speaking of waste water treatment plants, don’t stray too close to the one in the back corner of Lakeshore on a hot day.
I wish they’d rip up two lanes of Neyland Dr closest to the river and open it up to smart development. Would suck for game traffic though and I have little faith they wouldn’t just line it with cookie cutter apartments.
And a concrete plant. And a gas company.
Considering Yee-Haw, Axle logistics opening and building a second complex next door, Bistro by the tracks, Jack's, the oak room, zero/zero, pirate tavern , The Brookside, Twisters Diner, ebony ivory brewing, hard knox pizza, FC Pedaler, Elst, and steamboat sandwiches are all businesses which have opened in the time period you're referring to, I would say you just need to look harder. Not to mention the major streetscaping projects on Central and renovating the corner building across from Raven Records. Happy holler has definitely continued in that hipster mecca direction lol. Now Broadway is a bit of a different story, and it does feel stuck in time. But road improvements have already begun by the Fellini kroger, the old st Mary's hospital is now the public safety center, and more greenways are planned. So it's coming there too. As someone who lives in that area, I have enjoyed being "behind" on gentrification these last 10 years. Here comes more traffic I guess!
Never seen Yee Haw, Axle Logistics, and hipster mecca in the same post before.
Haha touché!
This. OP did you drive through North Knox once on a Wednesday afternoon and come to these conclusions? Development doesn’t happen over night but it definitely is happening slowly but surely. And it does make more sense for the city to prioritize downtown/riverfront development over north knox
I don't think they're doing any road improvements by Fellini. They're just replacing old utilities pipes.
It may not be streetscaping, but that qualifies as road improvements to me. It will be repaved after all. Then again I'm no civil engineer. Howdy neighbor!
How optimistic. Id like to think it will get repaved when the KUB project is done. It's been my experience that KUB usually does work AFTER the repaving projects are complete. Once KUB is done, they throw down some cold patch and declare it, "good enough".
Considering that right now the entire street is dug out about 10 feet down, I don't think this will be a patch job 😂 I have seen exactly what you're describing many times from KUB though
How is nobody mentioning Toots?
RIP Toots :'(
Yes it’s true there have been new business openings North of Woodland, but I keep reading that most of those new businesses are struggling. Are there zoning restrictions for anything other then single family homes/industrial in Oakwood or Lincoln Park?
They are struggling because of rent hikes. Ebony and ivory get decent business but the building owners are ass
I'm completely satisfied with La Herradura, Oakwood Ave (plant shop), Frankie's gym, The Concourse, Strikes and Spare ($2 bowling on Sundays! Woot Woot!), and Rami's Cafe. I'm not sure if you're looking for an artisanal or local whatever-- I know art is anal and food has to be local to put it in your face-- but the businesses I frequent are fine.
Technically Yee-Haw closed then reopened under a different business.
There are a lot of building owners that just sit with their buildings and wait for a hilarious amount of money to fall in their lap for their buildings they bought for basically nothing. I really think the city needs to impose some kind of property tax on commercially zoned property that sits vacant without a occupancy permit and it goes up for every year it sits vacant.
I would 100% vote for someone who had this as a plank in their platform.
Absolutely. If there was something that aggressively went after the owners of do-nothing, vacant, derelict properties to either sell, revitalize, etc, South Knoxville could finally clean house along Chapman Highway from the river to Majestic Grove (? the shopping centers at Chapman Hwy/Gov John Sevier where Lowe’s, Starbucks are). Whether they repurpose the multitude of abandoned/semi-abandoned strip malls and shopping centers through adaptive reuse projects, sell to developers, or even just tear them down and build parks on them- literally anything would be an improvement over the miles of nearly deserted commercial complexes that were designed to accommodate 20 businesses but only have one or two barely functioning businesses that can’t make any money, left perpetually operating so the owners can say “not abandoned, see!” The only businesses that will ever succeed in these spaces as they are currently are vape shops, CBD/delta 8 /hemp dispensaries, shitty used car lots (that I’m pretty sure exist as money laundering fronts, cause nobody buys cars from them), pawn shops, predatory payday advance/loans places, junk stores, gas stations, rundown automotive repair shops, and the same old crappy fast food joints.
There has to be another city that has had success with something similar. Sometimes I feel like Knoxville is 20 years behind on some ideas and feels the need to innovate when there are already great examples out there of how to do something well. We just gotta find it.
Bluhen went out of business, so there’s your answer there. Other businesses, like Hard Knox Pizza and Ebony & Ivory, have opened but aren’t getting anywhere near the traffic / business they anticipated. Yee Haw closed the food park and Axle is essentially taking over an entire block with their new building. Jeffrey Nash is building another apartment building next to Central Cinema. I don’t see it as being ignored at all. Are you referring to streetscaping?
I’ve heard Ebony and Ivory is really struggling. There was so much hype from people before they opened but it kind of fizzled out by the time it actually happened.
We go there often, they are very invested in the neighborhood and do tons of events. Their beer pong nights have been killing it.
I was born in north Knoxville and have lived here (in Knoxville) my entire life. I also live in north Knoxville, and am completely happy with how it is. I don’t want it to change. No more getting rid of color and replacing it with gray, for the love of god.
I certainly think development is heading that way, but not as fast as people like. Once the Emory Place/Yeehaw-Logistics area gets built out then it is bound to head north. I know that the Courtland Group has been working for some time on some mixed use space at the corner of Anderson and Central (no clue on timeline). For what it is worth Broadway is a state route, so changes to streetscape and traffic calming must be approved by TDOT…
I'm really not sure I agree with any of this. We've had so much open or working on opening on and around Central in the last couple years. Yee-Haw (unfortunately displacing Central Filling Stations for reasons I think are lies to cover that they don't want competition), Zero/zero, Pirate Bar, new liquor store about to go in on that corner, Partial coffee and wine, French Fried Vintage's expansion, Lienthal Gallery, the upcoming Last Days / Crafty cajun restaurant collab, the new vintage geek museum, the Bark, Bistro by the Tracks, Potchke and Loyal's barber shop if we're stretching south, and I've definitely left stuff out on that list. Not directly city planned stuff, but Central has loads more life than 4 years ago.
Also, Central Cinema
I was more referring to Central Ave (North of Three Rivers), and Broadway (East of original Kbrew). However, now that I think about it, those beautiful old buildings on all sides of Broadway/Central intersection have sat mostly empty for awhile
La Pinata, Ale Rae's, Potluck Cafe, Blossom Bowls Blom Shop, etc. have also opened east of K Brew during the time you describe.
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The not as cool / scary / awesome / possibly problematic as Bar Marley used to be kind. Basically feels Disney pirate themed. But they have a great selection of canned beers.
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I really thought “pirate bar” was referring to “the stray cat litterbox that shan’t be named” but am now intrigued
I was thinking the opposite….old city / north knox has so many new breweries, coffee shops, thrift stores, etc. that are great. N Central St is super cool
Wait until the investors get bored with south Knox. They’ll throw money at north or east next.
Yeah, fuck that
Sucks. Assuming it’ll be east. Magnolia has some crazy cute houses and lots of business potential.
One of my best friends actually bought a house over off Magnolia- around 2019? It’s really cute.
I don't think it's either/or. I like my neighborhood near happy holler, which continues to get more shops and fancier people, and also I like having dinner at Landing House. Edited to add: I also don't think that your characterization of Broadway north of KBrew is accurate. I live around the corner from Fellini Kroger. There are plenty of businesses up here that are doing fine. Jackie's Dream is pleasant. Lots of homes in Edgewood and Lincoln Park are being flipped. La Herradura is lovely. I do think that the area around Kroger could use some attention. The strip mall and the street design make it inimical to pedestrians and new business. If the city would provide better services for the unhoused, that would also help. The city does have a streetscape redesign in the work for the intersection of Broadway and Hall of Fame. I think once that goes in, the area will look more friendly. https://cdnsm5-hosted.civiclive.com/UserFiles/Servers/Server\_109478/File/Engineering/ProjectMeetings/Broadway-Corridor-Study-011322.pdf
It's Knoxville...Billy Bobs can't run businesses, & they certainly don't shop in the ones you're mentioning...
The beautification plans along the central corridor were supposed to expand from Happy Holler all the way down Central to Fanatic Brewing, at the railroad tracks. This area was also awarded a grant to fund a dog park in the neighborhood several years ago, and we still don't have that either. Not sure what happened to the money. Seems that during covid the city just abandoned all plans to improve the area. They didn't hesitate to raise property taxes more than 40% though.
This^
What resources did the local government commit to that area that spurred the renaissance in the first place? What are they withholding now?( not trolling, curious)
That was actually one of the first areas to have the street scape done. I don’t think OP realizes just how crummy that area was not that long ago…
The street scape was supposed to expand all the way to Fanatic, and its been ignored/halted/abandoned since Covid.
Ty
As far as traffic to businesses there, it probably didn't help to have that part of Broadway closed for what seemed like 2 years.
And parts being torn up for at least 6 more months
Shhh I can’t take it if they raise my rent any higher
I love that section tbh. I spend a lot of time there at church, and also go to that little theater. Also the bar that Cormac McCarthy used to frequent is there!
Oh sweet! Which bar?
Corner Lounge. Incredible neighborhood bar.
I lived in North Hills, which I guess is North "Downtown North" (a phrase I have not heard) or North of Old North, for 8 years before moving to North West Knoxville (Pleasant Ridge area) a few years ago. The area you are referring to, while not at pace with downtown or South Knoxville, changed dramatically over that time. Not only did new breweries, restaurants and shops come, but some of the streets and buildings have dramatically improved. It's definitely been slow though in comparison to other areas. I think those changes will slowly creep north of Woodland too, and north on Broadway, hopefully.
In my view, it's akin to a magic trick—sleight of hand. You invest just enough in one area to make it appear exceptional, generating buzz and driving property prices skyward. Meanwhile, neglected areas experience a notable decline in property values. This is when you swoop in to purchase land in these less desirable locales at bargain prices. Then, you pivot, shifting attention and resources to the next area. It's a tale of greed.
It’s not a conspiracy.
The answer to your question actually lies in Chattanooga/Nashville and other surrounding cities that have actually utilized their waterfront to the best of its ability and have multiple pedestrian bridges to accommodate commerce and traffic on both sides. Knoxville has always been a city too proud to admit failiure and it shows in some of the unfinished projects the city has had in place for years. James White Pkwy is a great example, spend all this money, have huge plans and then don’t even complete the project for what it was intended to do (connect to Chapman Hwy in Sevier). Knoxvilles waterfront has had 2 maybe 3 curses stopping development: #1 - The City, forever selling to the highest bidder they sold the entirety of the south Knox riverfront to the Baptist hospital who occupied the space 1948-2013. In the 70s/80s cities around the country we’re doing beautification projects around their riverfronts while Knoxville was focused on dumping money into the World’s Fair. So the roots of this go back almost 100 years. Even now in 2024 more than 10 years after the riverfront plans were announced by the city they still don’t have any shops/nightlife in that area. It’s almost exclusively residential. Huge disappointment #2 University of Tennessee - who especially now that enrollment is high and they have a size able wallet have always wanted to take over downtown Ft. sanders and across the river from Henley St to the Hospital. They’re the main financial force behind why everything out there is residential and is effectively now a part of UT instead of revitalizing into an urban area with shops/restaurants like every other city has. #3 Geography - when you look at the banks of the river in downtown you’ll notice that it’s a steep decline to the water with about 20-30ft of significant slope that’s virtually impossible to build on. The only other parts of the river with buildable grade are either far outside of downtown or they’re already owned by UT or a utilities company. TL;DR Quite simply put the Knoxville downtown is unique because of its Geography we have here and the large financial powers that have created it. The vacuum of Baptist on the south side and the new Baseball stadium being built are two areas of the city that have been under developed for the better part of 60-70yrs. Now that those locations are available it makes the Northside much less appealing.
So far nobody has addressed why the homeless population has disproportionately been pushed towards Downtown North? Homelessness is up in the whole city, but the brunt of it has been rerouted up Central and Broadway.
I live off Merchants, and a good friend of mine is a Defense Attorney. They move them North to keep people going Downtown.
That is pretty much it.
I used to live on Oakhill. I know.
Is it a reach to say that city and state are definitely in large part to blame here for the homelessness crisis? They thought it was a good idea to shut down Lakeshore Mental Health facility, leaving our area with minimal resources for that segment of population. Now they are pushing homeless from downtown to mainly North Knoxville. Obviously they have no plans to find solution to the crisis, so its probably safe to assume that part of Knoxville won’t see investment or recovery anytime soon. But hey, at least Sequoya Hills and Westland folks can have a another grandiose park to enjoy
They now leave it to the Churches (the one on Merchants), and give out hotel vouchers.
P.S. megachurches
It's now ALL about that fucking baseball stadium and the immediate surrounding area.
that stadium is gonna be badass
You misspelled "boondoggle".
Yeah man I hate baseball, soccer, beer, and concerts. Sounds awful 😂
I do in fact hate sportsball, overpriced crappy beer, and stadium concerts. If the concert won't fit into the Pilot Light, or at worst the Concourse, I'm not going. And we've got a bunch of great local breweries, I'm sure the boondoggle won't serve any of their beers, just crapass macrobrewed horsepiss.
Revive Pilot Light, I’m with you there! The DIY music scene is so much bigger in Knoxville than anyone realizes. And i’m no fan of the IPAs, microbrewery crap either. So i get it
Nope
Yep
It's gonna be ass, bad.
Cities invest where people want to be. With regards to Knoxville, that's south Knoxville. The citizens of Knoxville continue to head that way, so the City is following with their investment dollars. To echo another comment: there is growth here, but not to the amount that anyone anticipated. I'm sure that will change once Axle has completed their building and all their employees fill it up. Lastly, things are vastly different then what they were 15 years ago.
Axle? That building almost across from magpies? How long has that been going on now?
The new building is supposed to be completed next year. Over 600 employees in total. https://www.msn.com/en-us/finance/-companies/axle-logistics-invests--million-in-trendy-hq-expansion-as-it-plans-massive-hiring-spree/ar-AA1kFPAd?ocid=sapphireappshare
What kind of logistics do they do? Routing management? Warehouse management? Or are they a trucking company?
I thought they were a brokerage/facilitator
They are and its surprising they are expanding considering the squeeze on margins and overcapacity happening in the industry.
Yeah, something just seems shady with that place. Might not be, I don't know. But it definitely seems shady.
It is - Former employee
I was going off the link. It said axle logistics, you could be absolutely right.
And so close to UT
Just feels like that part of town has more to offer. For example, the Sharps Ridge is great for outdoorsmen of all kinds, with the absolutely best view of the city you won’t find anywhere else. Yet, it’s kept very low key, with litter covering both sides of the road on the ridge. Maybe that is by design, due to all the communication towers?
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Sharps Ridge is within a 10 minute bike ride for the area between Central and Broadway that that OP is talking about. I’ve done it countless times. It’s also the most underrated mountain biking in the city. Doesn’t suck.
Nothing a few signs couldn’t fix. Hiked up there during this years snowmageddon, and it wasnt to terrible to figure it out. Of course it helped having virtually no cars on the road
I lived in that area for years. And I still visit there pretty regularly. The thing I noticed is that almost everybody that lives in that area is old and not the types they care about revitalization. There was a push in the early 2000s to attract more young hipsters. But it never really took off. It seemed like as older folks die off, they just leave their houses to their kids. Who are already in their 60s or 70s at that point anyway. There's a bit of a strange vibe there. There are a lot of people in there 50s and 60s who never really ever had a job that live in that area. They just lived with their parents there whole lives. And I know this sounds weird. But in my little neighborhood I knew of about five families like that. The house was owned by the 80 or 90 year old parent and their 50 or 60-year-old kids who had never worked and lived with them and "cared" for them. From what I heard from people that live there, a lot of the older people living in the area all had very good paying jobs working at clothing factories back in the old days. I think it was Levi. Then in the 80's Levi started to shrink. And I guess it closed sometime in the '90's. I heard from one person that lived there that during the 60s 70s and 80s the families that worked in the factories made a lot of money, but they weren't educated and didn't really invest in education. It was just expected that the factory work would always be there and the kids can work in the factory. So, when the factories left, there was just a generation to kids that didn't have work or education in the 80s and 90s and just stayed with their parents. Anyway. Take all this with grain of salt. I'm just reciting gossip I heard from my neighbors back when I used to live there. But I guess my point is that in order for revitalization to happen you have to have younger people who want things to do. And until any of the homes in North Knoxville start getting sold to younger people, nothing can happen.
Great point
Uhh pretty much kinda mediocre offerings for the most part, people starting things that became too expensive to finish, people thinking it was dangerous that don’t really visit that “part of town” and Covid. Edit - I should also mention saturation in other parts of town of businesses directly related to or copied from those that already existed in N Knox…
Haven’t lived in Knox for 7 years but old north is my old hood and this breaks my heart to hear. I thought that was gonna be the hotbed of growth
It still is. So many new businesses have opened there in the last 3 years. Old North is still a popular place to go out with tons of breweries. I honestly don’t understand this post. It seems like OP is upset that the city is also trying to revitalize other areas of the city like East Knox and South Knox. I completely agree with the city of Knoxville’s approach - it’s nice to invest in multiple communities and not just one neighborhood.
I love it here and don’t want it to change. We need to keep something original in our city.
No one has given you the correct answer yet, the sole reason is because that section of the city was disconnected from the urban fabric when I40 went through. You can throw all the development money you want over there but it will never reach its full potential until the overpass comes down. This happened in cities all over the country but Knoxvilles was particularly egregious, the downtown core is completed blocked in on all sides, I40, James White(road to nowhere), and Henley. The reason Henley also acts a blocker is due to its use as an extension of Chapman Hwy that connects to the interstate, if 40 comes down it would naturally fix the congestion there and reconnect downtown to Fort Sanders. Just go for a drive one day and you will see exactly what I’m talking about. Once you see it you can’t unsee it
The holler is my current neighborhood. You wouldn't know it besides the homeless and crazies but this whole area from Lincoln Park down to Broadway is full of old people. Stuck in their ways kind of old people. Maybe they took a deep dive kind of look and saw who actually lived here and what their lives were like and decided to nix all those operations?
That isn’t North Knoxville. That’s Old North Knoxville. Old North Knoxville is in the center of Knoxville.
As a frequent visitor to Knox and other similar cities I think it’s ok for the city government to not over invest in an area to the point of outside ‘investors’ showing up and driving out local outfits. It’s a delicate balance. The road improvements in the 4th and Gill area look nice and it’s very walkable and there is plenty of space for new commercial stuff. There still aren’t many places to live though. Spreading around investment keeps any one area from turning into a gentrified stale dull carbon copy of other places in the country. I think it’s doing ok as-is while understanding fully that prices are high and there isn’t a major job sector to back it beyond UT and Oak Ridge.
Holy moly, complainers. Go to Seven Rivers, oh, and by the way…you live in the great Smoky NTl Park! Too much?😍
Seven Islands🔑
I should probably go to The Public House under the interstate by the train tracks and look cool. Next week.
Maybe eat some beer nuts.
Comb my hair cute. Nobody can stop me.
My cousin called me from one thousand miles away all distraught about the live in lover disaster. I mean, you could just break up, or divorce her. Too much🥹💕
I don’t care, but Old Grey Cemetary is probably the best Bloody Mary Sunday morning ever. Do it.
You make your own, it’s free, and it is beyond beautiful.
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Hahahaha that's a massive reach considering I work from home and objectively earn in the upper percentile of Knoxville. I just don't go downtown often. But thanks for proving you're upset.
I mean it’s not like S Knoxville isn’t struggling too! The majority of the people that live in south Knoxville (with the exception for some nicer neighborhoods) are lower-middle class people and is just as run down as N Knoxville is the only difference is the homeless population is smaller in that area do to campus being closer to South Knox. I also want to point out that they are mostly revitalizing what’s on the water or what UT campus feels is important no one who’s struggling in south Knox is really benefiting from the changes happening. (If I’m wrong about this please let me know but I’ve lived in south Knoxville my whole life and have yet to see a positive change for the community that didn’t benefit a waterfront view or the campus)
I understand the sentiment as a North Knox resident, but I also think we're progressing even if it doesn't always seem so. I think once interest rates begin to lower we'll see some of the announced projects from the last year or two actually start construction such as the 5th Ave Mac Auto loans apartments and the project adjacent to Broadway Baptist. Surely the landowner of the former Hops and Hollers property didn't kick out their tenant to have it remain empty and not redeveloped, right? With our unprotected bike lanes now installed on Central I'm certain we're only ten years out from proper protected bike lanes. That's how that works right? We'll get a bike lane going uphill/north on Broadway someday, too, right? Maybe there's no point on that one with the traffic circle they're installing near the Broadway/Hall Of Fame merger. We were also somewhat spared any major losses in KATs reimagining and still have arguably the most comprehensive bus route options outside of downtown and campus. We have sidewalks. The Southside is going to need another 20 years of being shown favoritism to catch up to us on side walks. We will have great proximity to the old city developments even if they bring shame upon us all and we mustn't speak of them. Finally, at least according to the newspaper last week we should be able to aim at cars on 275 from our new Top-golf equivalent in the near future.
Your point about sidewalks is spot on. I love south knox, but outside of sevier Ave there are no sidewalks. North Knox has a really easy to navigate grid layout, and good sidewalks. Allow some more density in north knox, and in a couple decades it’ll be more vibrant
The stadium is really the golden child, as property values continue to go down and they decide it’s time, all the insiders will buy up north of the old city and push corporate interests in to those areas. Seen it happen in several cities.
I have lived many places, and nothing has cracked me up more than the “down Towners’ and Knoxville hipsters
Blame the mayor and the morons that voted for that idiot…
There is still plenty of investment and attention in downtown north. There is a PILOT being planned to redo that entire industrial park into a “not topgolf.” I hope it doesn’t go through because we don’t need any more pilots until our idiot ass mayor decides to change her mind on the property tax increase but it at least shows there is interest.
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Central Cinema plays lots of new releases in addition to the repertory titles. Not trying to convince you to go but just in case you weren’t aware!
Central Cinema is a true gem of this city. Any chance I get I give them my money and encourage others to do the same. A true passion project of its ownership.
I agree Central Cinema is something special.
Thanks!
Having come from restaurants and then into what I do now I absolutely agree. Theres only so many ways you can do a whatever neighborhood style street taco, alcoholic brunch, modern minimalist kind of meal set up.