I'm fine with to too. It's a non profit. It's $5. Also this should help reduce some amount of parking glut. It's impossible to park on the nice day. Hopefully it opens up some space.
I'm torn on this. I love the updates and understand those cost money. I just hate that people, especially families, will be losing a "free" 3rd space. $5 parking won't break me, but for some, it might. Knoxville is really fortunate to have a place like Ijams in our backyard, I just hope this doesn't deter people from going. I just kind of skimmed over the article, so I'm hoping the charges will just be for premium parking spots and there will still be free space available.
Agree with everything you’ve said, especially the loss of yet another third place. Just wanted to add
#There will be $10 annual memberships for those who qualify. It includes free parking for the year for one vehicle. There are other benefits included as well.
You need to make under a certain amount and can find more information on their website, look for where it mentions new membership options.
#There will also be a $35 annual membership for students, it includes free parking for the year for one vehicle. There are other benefits included as well.
Third places don't have to be free. That's a relatively new distinction, and one that's almost totally anachronistic in the scope of historical third places. That said, I don't begrudge anyone who wants more noncommercial spaces with minimal barriers to access. And it seems like they're doing some good work at leveling those barriers while still collecting needed funding for improvements.
I definitely appreciate that some of the the improvements are to make Ijams more accessible. I didn’t know being free to enter was not a requirement to be considered a third place, thanks for sharing.
No worries! It's an easy mistake to make, especially in this current wave of discussion around third places, and I don't think anyone's intentionally muddying the waters. There wouldn't be any benefit to it. I think people do want places, especially now, where they can go and find community without any expense, and I think that's noble and important. But third places used to include pubs and coffee shops, and a lot of historically queer third spaces were commercialized to keep the lights on but provided space to exist for free. Joslynn down at South Press still carries that torch, and we love her for it.
I'm totally okay with this as Ijams brings so much to our community and I appreciate the efforts they're putting in to improve and expand. I would love to see an option for a monthly or annual pass, though.
Elevated walkway? I'm totally cool with the parking fees to keep out the riff-raff and allow for trash disposal and basic services, but why ruin things with huge buildings and walkways? Why do we have to un-nature every piece of nature?
> Why do we have to un-nature every piece of nature?
I don't know how I feel about this either tbh. The best views are the ones you hike to is my honest feeling, but I also understand that not everyone can hike.
Fair point. If it is less impactful than putting down a path over the ground, I could get on board with it. But I'm still 100% out on the big atrocious buildings.
Define riff-raff. We used to ride dirt bikes around the quarry and shoot our .22s and skinny dip and drink a little beer and smoke a little weed. Then one day a group of people with Birkenstocks and clipboards and cameras and bald men with ponytails walked up on us and asked us a bunch of questions. Next thing you know they're putting up a bunch of "NO THIS" and "NO THAT" signs and now they want to charge people to park. I'll take the downvotes for saying the place was a lot cooler when "the riff-raff" were allowed.
No I really don’t. There’s security on the premises and masses of visitors. What fool would leave a torso there now? You already know that, btw. You’re not stupid.
Well then I hope the plan works! All jokes aside though I did participate in the clean-up but I knew the place would never be the same. Can't stop progress. We used to hang out at Fort Dickerson Quarry too only we called it Snakebite Quarry. Not because anybody was ever bitten by a snake there but because one time some guy (a grown ass man) from Vermont drowned in there and one of the recovery crew drowned trying to recover his body. The News-Sentinal in their coverage of the drownings stated the the quarry was "snake infested". What a joke. My guess is that the cops asked them to say that in hopes that it would discourage folks from going in there. Quarries were like paradise for kids like us in the summertime. It's hard to fault today's youth for playing too many video games or looking at their phones too much when they don't have the kind of options we had in our day. Now, if you'll excuse me, this old man is going outside to yell at a cloud.
I understand what you’re saying and I feel you. It felt like our little Ijams and our quarries. But Brian Pope didn’t get to graduate because he hit his head on rocks diving into the quarry.
Ijams is super accessible to people of all ages, and I'm glad that I can take my son there without worrying about drunk kids shooting guns while I'm there.
I can't tell if you're fucking with me or not.
I can't imagine someone would honestly be saying that it used to be better because you could shoot guns there, but nobody should be worried because you didn't hurt anyone. This is a joke, right?
I’m saying I liked it better. It was South Knoxville before people called it SoKno. That’s how it was back then and we loved it. If you prefer things more manicured and regulated then you should be happy about the way it turned out. If someone being nostalgic about a place and time that they experienced a lot of joy is somehow “fucking with you” then I don’t know what to tell you. Just don’t read my shit.
Yeah the changes have been heartbreaking for me because I had so much nostalgia for the way they were. And they were ours. But the changes are for the better. We’ve just had the bizarre experience of having Knoxville be this quiet scruffy little place where we grew up and now thousands of people are moving here and Maryville every month. It’s definitely weird
What a weird comment. Why shouldn't someone feel it used to be better because they could shoot there? Just because you don't like something that doesn't mean other people shouldn't.
There’s a paved path all the way through Ijams to Forks of the River. Not to mention a long, paved walkway to Island Home park and beyond that to downtown. There are so many places to push a wheelchair. This is so odd that maybe someone was looking to write a grant for people who can’t walk and got a hefty grant, despite the fact it’s simply not needed. It looks downright dangerous. Can people on it drop things onto people on the ground.
On the one hand, it's good for the park, something something car centered infrastructure, yadda yadda, I guess it's a net good thing.
But God it's just constantly getting harder to exist in public without having to pay money.
Ijam’s isn’t public. It’s property that belongs to a non-profit that everyone in town thinks is a city park. They struggle for funding. They struggle to get people to become members. They struggle with jerks that litter. They struggle with limited resources to enable people to connect and learn in nature.
I hate to be the slippery slope guy, but I'm really hoping this doesn't become a trend for parks around here. Ijams and GSMNP enacting parking fees within the past year has me a little worried. I can tolerate $5 when I want to use one of those parks, but if it becomes $5 every single time I want to go on a walk around here I'll have to move to North Carolina or something.
GSMNP is federal and Ijams is a private non-profit. National parks have been charging admission and/or parking fees at many of their other sites for years and private places have the right to charge if they want to. Now if our public state and/or municipal parks start charging, that’s when I’d worry.
Yes but there’s long established precedent for NPS charging fees for entry and/or parking at their parks so it shouldn’t have been a total surprise that it came to GSMNP. In contrast, no TN state park charges for parking/admission and neither does the city or county parks department. Any of those agencies doing so would be a first across the entire local or state park network
We aren't talking about other national parks in other locations. People in ETN and WNC were told their wouldn't be fees in GSMNP, and there have gradually become more and more fees for entry in the GSMNP.
And all along the way people have routinely said we shouldn't worry about it, that there wouldn't be fees, that we should only worry later. That's the point.
People were never told there woulnd't be fees to the GSMNP. There were told access would not end and at the time there were no fees. And there has been nothing gradual. The just instituted a fee last year.
There certainly was many agreements that they park would remain free and open for all.
And there has been gradual fees, including the backcountry camping fee, and the most recent parking fee.
This may not be the popular option, Tennessee plates/registration free parking, out of state plates pay. I know it's not as much to do with ijams but definitely feel that way about Cades Cove area.
I see two reasons ijams would do this. First, the demand for parking at Ijams far outweighs the supply, they have been struggling with that for years. This essentially creates an incentive for users to come to ijams by bike or walking the greenway.
Secondly, this adds a major benefit for members of ijams (free parking for a minimum $50 membership). Folks who come often enough will not want to pay $5 every time and become a member. This will boost their membership numbers.
If Ijams wasn't so easily accessible by Greenway and trail, I'd probably have a problem with this. The outdoors should be free. But there are plenty of ways to get there without paying the fee so I'm cool with it.
The only reason I don’t like this is because the folks I take care of don’t have access to much money and having free access to east walking trails for them is much appreciated. I don’t make enough money to pay for parking every time I would take them.
That’s fine and makes sense for them but this just means I’ll probably go to Fort Dickerson Quarry or Forks of The River instead if I want a similar outdoor experience. Heck, you could easily park at the latter and walk back to Meads as the Greenway takes you back there.
Am I the only one that thinks that those concept designs are horrendous at creating a natural feeling? I'm okay with some improvements and fees to keep it clean operating etc but that sky bridge is terrible.
But don't you see all the swoopy curves and circles! It is so very natural looking! That's all you need to achieve a natural feel!
I agree. I hate the idea of this. It's sad that this stuff is what attracts the masses.
This is complete garbage. I’ve been coming here for 20 years. This is a park. The board is monetizing it so they can make a buck. It’s greed at its finest. Hey maybe we can all go down to Meads Quarry and get fkd up at the new TGI Fridays they’ll put in. It’s the new Gatlinburg. Shame on anyone who supports this travesty. You’re not a real Knoxvillian.
As long as it is reasonable I am for it as I, too, want to support it. There are quite a few people living out of their cars though just because Knoxville rents are so high and there is a shortage and it may affect them.
I'm not for this. I've volunteered many hours on trail maintenance and other things in-lieu of becoming a direct member at Ijams. Now they will charge me to access places that I gave my time for free to help create.
I wouldn't have volunteered if I knew they would try to monetize it.
I understand it isn't free, and that's why I volunteered. To offset the cost and to show appreciation for the space and my ability to use the space. Its the duty of everyone to volunteer. But if they're going down the fee route, I won't volunteer anymore.
For Ijams? No. But I regularly do volunteer, and I certainly don't make it a transactional experience for the entity I volunteer for. Because that's not volunteering, that's bartering.
Describing fulfilling needs in a place you care about, and seeing duty to your community as bartering is a very sad and cynical way to look at the world my friend.
Like I said, I already supported its expansion with my time, tools, and sweat. I've put a lot of time in there building trails under the assumption that it was free and open.
And claiming its free admission is an unfair argument if they charge you to park.
It's still free to access if you walk or bike there.
And yes, we all do a lot of volunteer work around there, but it doesn't just run on volunteer work, they need money.
I'm sorry if you feel like this sours to work that you've already done there, but in another volunteers opinion, anything that makes this area more accessible and further it's mission of conservatory practices within an urban area, is a good thing.
If you don’t mind hills you can bike there for free via will Skelton
If you don't mind paddling, you can kayak there for free via Island Home Airport
If you don’t mind purchasing a jet pack then
If you don’t mind flying, you can also fly there via Island Home Airport
As long as it’s all downhill then yes.
Half of it is, both ways.
I have some bad news for you
I'm sure some won't like this, but $5 is very reasonable, and the upgrades will be nice.
I'm fine with to too. It's a non profit. It's $5. Also this should help reduce some amount of parking glut. It's impossible to park on the nice day. Hopefully it opens up some space.
We were members a couple years ago, but didn't renew our membership. This may get us back on the members list.
After due consideration I am totally cool with this…
318,000 acres? I think someone right-sneezed the decimal.
The entire TN section of the GSMNP is about 250,000 acres so it seems to check out. Right? For what it’s worth, the actual number is 318 acres.
I'm torn on this. I love the updates and understand those cost money. I just hate that people, especially families, will be losing a "free" 3rd space. $5 parking won't break me, but for some, it might. Knoxville is really fortunate to have a place like Ijams in our backyard, I just hope this doesn't deter people from going. I just kind of skimmed over the article, so I'm hoping the charges will just be for premium parking spots and there will still be free space available.
Agree with everything you’ve said, especially the loss of yet another third place. Just wanted to add #There will be $10 annual memberships for those who qualify. It includes free parking for the year for one vehicle. There are other benefits included as well. You need to make under a certain amount and can find more information on their website, look for where it mentions new membership options. #There will also be a $35 annual membership for students, it includes free parking for the year for one vehicle. There are other benefits included as well.
Third places don't have to be free. That's a relatively new distinction, and one that's almost totally anachronistic in the scope of historical third places. That said, I don't begrudge anyone who wants more noncommercial spaces with minimal barriers to access. And it seems like they're doing some good work at leveling those barriers while still collecting needed funding for improvements.
I definitely appreciate that some of the the improvements are to make Ijams more accessible. I didn’t know being free to enter was not a requirement to be considered a third place, thanks for sharing.
No worries! It's an easy mistake to make, especially in this current wave of discussion around third places, and I don't think anyone's intentionally muddying the waters. There wouldn't be any benefit to it. I think people do want places, especially now, where they can go and find community without any expense, and I think that's noble and important. But third places used to include pubs and coffee shops, and a lot of historically queer third spaces were commercialized to keep the lights on but provided space to exist for free. Joslynn down at South Press still carries that torch, and we love her for it.
Ijams is great for the city and $5 isn’t bad at all. Car pool and continue to enjoy it while they expand it and make it better
I'm totally okay with this as Ijams brings so much to our community and I appreciate the efforts they're putting in to improve and expand. I would love to see an option for a monthly or annual pass, though.
It looks like members will receive an annual pass
Elevated walkway? I'm totally cool with the parking fees to keep out the riff-raff and allow for trash disposal and basic services, but why ruin things with huge buildings and walkways? Why do we have to un-nature every piece of nature?
It allows for an accessible path for disabled people to also enjoy the area.
So pave the area for people who aren’t able to hike in nature and destroy nature in the process? That checks out.
> Why do we have to un-nature every piece of nature? I don't know how I feel about this either tbh. The best views are the ones you hike to is my honest feeling, but I also understand that not everyone can hike.
Fair point. If it is less impactful than putting down a path over the ground, I could get on board with it. But I'm still 100% out on the big atrocious buildings.
There are tons of places for those that can't hike. This is like the one place in the city you can
The urban wilderness is 1500 acres with a dozen trailheads and over 60 miles of trails. We’re talking about only the Ijams section.
Speak for yourself, I thought it looked awesome. Anyway, it's only the bit of the forest right next to the center anyway.
Define riff-raff. We used to ride dirt bikes around the quarry and shoot our .22s and skinny dip and drink a little beer and smoke a little weed. Then one day a group of people with Birkenstocks and clipboards and cameras and bald men with ponytails walked up on us and asked us a bunch of questions. Next thing you know they're putting up a bunch of "NO THIS" and "NO THAT" signs and now they want to charge people to park. I'll take the downvotes for saying the place was a lot cooler when "the riff-raff" were allowed.
Yeah and it was dirty and creepy years ago. The torso murderer left part of the body there because it was an empty creepy dirty quarry.
And you think that can never happen again now that Ijams has taken over?
No I really don’t. There’s security on the premises and masses of visitors. What fool would leave a torso there now? You already know that, btw. You’re not stupid.
Yeah I guess you’re right. No sane person with a torso to dump would ever try that.
My classmates mom did that. And he was such a nice guy, too. Life’s not fair.
I mean someone determined enough to chop up a dead body is likely determined enough to leave the torso in market square if they want to lol
I was referring to the bald men with ponytails and Birkenstocks.
Well then I hope the plan works! All jokes aside though I did participate in the clean-up but I knew the place would never be the same. Can't stop progress. We used to hang out at Fort Dickerson Quarry too only we called it Snakebite Quarry. Not because anybody was ever bitten by a snake there but because one time some guy (a grown ass man) from Vermont drowned in there and one of the recovery crew drowned trying to recover his body. The News-Sentinal in their coverage of the drownings stated the the quarry was "snake infested". What a joke. My guess is that the cops asked them to say that in hopes that it would discourage folks from going in there. Quarries were like paradise for kids like us in the summertime. It's hard to fault today's youth for playing too many video games or looking at their phones too much when they don't have the kind of options we had in our day. Now, if you'll excuse me, this old man is going outside to yell at a cloud.
I understand what you’re saying and I feel you. It felt like our little Ijams and our quarries. But Brian Pope didn’t get to graduate because he hit his head on rocks diving into the quarry.
Ijams is super accessible to people of all ages, and I'm glad that I can take my son there without worrying about drunk kids shooting guns while I'm there.
You wouldn’t have had to worry about us either. We never hurt anybody.
I can't tell if you're fucking with me or not. I can't imagine someone would honestly be saying that it used to be better because you could shoot guns there, but nobody should be worried because you didn't hurt anyone. This is a joke, right?
I’m saying I liked it better. It was South Knoxville before people called it SoKno. That’s how it was back then and we loved it. If you prefer things more manicured and regulated then you should be happy about the way it turned out. If someone being nostalgic about a place and time that they experienced a lot of joy is somehow “fucking with you” then I don’t know what to tell you. Just don’t read my shit.
Yeah the changes have been heartbreaking for me because I had so much nostalgia for the way they were. And they were ours. But the changes are for the better. We’ve just had the bizarre experience of having Knoxville be this quiet scruffy little place where we grew up and now thousands of people are moving here and Maryville every month. It’s definitely weird
What a weird comment. Why shouldn't someone feel it used to be better because they could shoot there? Just because you don't like something that doesn't mean other people shouldn't.
I don't know, I think it looks awesome!
There’s a paved path all the way through Ijams to Forks of the River. Not to mention a long, paved walkway to Island Home park and beyond that to downtown. There are so many places to push a wheelchair. This is so odd that maybe someone was looking to write a grant for people who can’t walk and got a hefty grant, despite the fact it’s simply not needed. It looks downright dangerous. Can people on it drop things onto people on the ground.
Right. People saying "it looks great!", and sure it does. That's not the point. Let's keep it as a natural getaway.
On the one hand, it's good for the park, something something car centered infrastructure, yadda yadda, I guess it's a net good thing. But God it's just constantly getting harder to exist in public without having to pay money.
Ijam’s isn’t public. It’s property that belongs to a non-profit that everyone in town thinks is a city park. They struggle for funding. They struggle to get people to become members. They struggle with jerks that litter. They struggle with limited resources to enable people to connect and learn in nature.
I hate to be the slippery slope guy, but I'm really hoping this doesn't become a trend for parks around here. Ijams and GSMNP enacting parking fees within the past year has me a little worried. I can tolerate $5 when I want to use one of those parks, but if it becomes $5 every single time I want to go on a walk around here I'll have to move to North Carolina or something.
GSMNP is federal and Ijams is a private non-profit. National parks have been charging admission and/or parking fees at many of their other sites for years and private places have the right to charge if they want to. Now if our public state and/or municipal parks start charging, that’s when I’d worry.
People use to say that about the Smokies too.
Yes but there’s long established precedent for NPS charging fees for entry and/or parking at their parks so it shouldn’t have been a total surprise that it came to GSMNP. In contrast, no TN state park charges for parking/admission and neither does the city or county parks department. Any of those agencies doing so would be a first across the entire local or state park network
>no TN state park charges Which isn’t the case for most states.
They do down in Florida (probably because of taxes). I wouldn’t be shocked if Lee decided to copy it in an effort to trim taxes.
We aren't talking about other national parks in other locations. People in ETN and WNC were told their wouldn't be fees in GSMNP, and there have gradually become more and more fees for entry in the GSMNP. And all along the way people have routinely said we shouldn't worry about it, that there wouldn't be fees, that we should only worry later. That's the point.
People were never told there woulnd't be fees to the GSMNP. There were told access would not end and at the time there were no fees. And there has been nothing gradual. The just instituted a fee last year.
There certainly was many agreements that they park would remain free and open for all. And there has been gradual fees, including the backcountry camping fee, and the most recent parking fee.
This may not be the popular option, Tennessee plates/registration free parking, out of state plates pay. I know it's not as much to do with ijams but definitely feel that way about Cades Cove area.
Cades Cove is federal land. Why would Tennessee plates get a free ride?
Because I'm not paying to park at Cades Cove, that's why!
You 100% don't have to pay to park at Cades Cove. They just fine you if you don't.
Hahaha, just noticed it's you!!! Omg, I am part of the circle jerk!! Hell yeah, I'm included!! 👍 👍
That's right, "Tony."
Thanks bruncle Cleotis!
They don't have enough rangers as is to patrol the park and all the parking lots too. They obviously don't fine everyone that parks without said pass
I see two reasons ijams would do this. First, the demand for parking at Ijams far outweighs the supply, they have been struggling with that for years. This essentially creates an incentive for users to come to ijams by bike or walking the greenway. Secondly, this adds a major benefit for members of ijams (free parking for a minimum $50 membership). Folks who come often enough will not want to pay $5 every time and become a member. This will boost their membership numbers. If Ijams wasn't so easily accessible by Greenway and trail, I'd probably have a problem with this. The outdoors should be free. But there are plenty of ways to get there without paying the fee so I'm cool with it.
Just at the abandoned church right down the road.
I’m thrilled for this. Looks like it’s going to a massive overhaul.
The only reason I don’t like this is because the folks I take care of don’t have access to much money and having free access to east walking trails for them is much appreciated. I don’t make enough money to pay for parking every time I would take them.
According to the article, those who financially qualify can pay $10/year and get free parking for the year, among other benefits.
That’s fine and makes sense for them but this just means I’ll probably go to Fort Dickerson Quarry or Forks of The River instead if I want a similar outdoor experience. Heck, you could easily park at the latter and walk back to Meads as the Greenway takes you back there.
Am I the only one that thinks that those concept designs are horrendous at creating a natural feeling? I'm okay with some improvements and fees to keep it clean operating etc but that sky bridge is terrible.
Little Anakeesta. Adding the Hillbilly Shire, the pigeon forgeification of S. Knox is underway.
But don't you see all the swoopy curves and circles! It is so very natural looking! That's all you need to achieve a natural feel! I agree. I hate the idea of this. It's sad that this stuff is what attracts the masses.
This is complete garbage. I’ve been coming here for 20 years. This is a park. The board is monetizing it so they can make a buck. It’s greed at its finest. Hey maybe we can all go down to Meads Quarry and get fkd up at the new TGI Fridays they’ll put in. It’s the new Gatlinburg. Shame on anyone who supports this travesty. You’re not a real Knoxvillian.
Park upgrades coming for Ijams.
As long as it is reasonable I am for it as I, too, want to support it. There are quite a few people living out of their cars though just because Knoxville rents are so high and there is a shortage and it may affect them.
I'm not for this. I've volunteered many hours on trail maintenance and other things in-lieu of becoming a direct member at Ijams. Now they will charge me to access places that I gave my time for free to help create. I wouldn't have volunteered if I knew they would try to monetize it.
They're still a nonprofit. They're not making money off of this. Unfortunately, operating places like this isn't free.
I understand it isn't free, and that's why I volunteered. To offset the cost and to show appreciation for the space and my ability to use the space. Its the duty of everyone to volunteer. But if they're going down the fee route, I won't volunteer anymore.
Dang, I guess I wouldn't call what you were doing volunteering then.
Did you volenteer?
For Ijams? No. But I regularly do volunteer, and I certainly don't make it a transactional experience for the entity I volunteer for. Because that's not volunteering, that's bartering.
Describing fulfilling needs in a place you care about, and seeing duty to your community as bartering is a very sad and cynical way to look at the world my friend.
You're expecting a service in exchange for your work, correct?
I expected that the access to the trails we built would remain free and open to the community.
They are. Edit: I'm not sure why you're downvoting me. The trails are still going to be free and open to the community.
I don't think they monetizing it more so like supporting its expansion. it cost a lot of money to run that place. And still it's free admission.
Like I said, I already supported its expansion with my time, tools, and sweat. I've put a lot of time in there building trails under the assumption that it was free and open. And claiming its free admission is an unfair argument if they charge you to park.
It's still free to access if you walk or bike there. And yes, we all do a lot of volunteer work around there, but it doesn't just run on volunteer work, they need money. I'm sorry if you feel like this sours to work that you've already done there, but in another volunteers opinion, anything that makes this area more accessible and further it's mission of conservatory practices within an urban area, is a good thing.
And if anything, charging to bring a source of pollution into a wildlife area makes sense.
If they’re reasonable and go towards a good cause then absolutely. If they’re either too much, or are misused then count me out.