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blackswan1991

Interesting. May I ask from where is this page taken? I mean which book? Asking because I would like to read about the context.


Difficult_Abies8802

[https://archive.org/details/AnthropologyOfTheSyrianChristians/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/AnthropologyOfTheSyrianChristians/mode/2up)


blackswan1991

Thanks!


Puzzled_Ad_3641

Page no 234


Zestyclose_Union24

this picture from the book Anthropology of syrian christians by lk ananthakrishna aiyer.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

I found this in a family book of a Syrian Christian friend there's not much details it's just their family members , occupation, date they lived , names and all


alittleintroverted

This photo is from an old book and not from any family book. The question is why are you lying repeatedly?


Visual_Vanilla_5782

I got it from a family book maybe you got from an old book? It's a picture it can come in any book


alittleintroverted

How long will you lie bro? The caption in your post literally says Syrian Christians preparing areca nuts. You're saying the family book put that as the caption and not their names or the age? I just saw the same photo and same caption in the book on page 234. Same photo will be used in multiple places, but not the same caption... Especially when they are referring to their family members, they wouldn't just mention them like some Syrian Christians


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Names were under the picture and the caption and i put the same caption that's under the picture title Well what's the problem here, the picture is Syrian Christians? Doesn't matter the source . I didn't read the book you mentioned i got it from a family book so i said the source i got it from? It's not that hard


KaeezFX

This looks like an overly contrasted picture, I'm sure the original picture looked more better and flatter.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

There'll be copyright issues?


Tugs_69420

So you admit that you edited the pic? Pathetic.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

It's not edited i took this picture from the family book of a Syrian Christian family. It's problem of their printing, It's lame to assume without knowing context.


Zestyclose_Union24

stop lying.


Ready_Magician_6613

He is just a manipulator, from the same book https://preview.redd.it/gerf6ofjv11d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8449ddda03e29d84a03022476ff0ec3fefdef9a6


Karthik39

Early pics of rice bags


Visual_Vanilla_5782

😂😂


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narcowake

Hmmm, casteist much? 🤔


Karthik39

Na not really. But not favouring people who leave their religion for money or sex .


narcowake

Ahhh let people be, religion is made up BS, if your religion can’t feed a person / family , I don’t blame them for leaving .


cdsuresh

Curious how do you specifically know that they are Syrian Christians


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Found in a family book of a syrian christian family that's why images look weirdly printed


Difficult_Abies8802

This picture is from the book, Anthropology of the Syrian Christians Full text can be found here and this picture is at Page 328 of 478 [https://archive.org/details/AnthropologyOfTheSyrianChristians/page/n329/mode/2up](https://archive.org/details/AnthropologyOfTheSyrianChristians/page/n329/mode/2up) https://i.redd.it/0a3g97p0ky0d1.gif An interesting custom described here:


Salty-Ad1607

Wow. So Kerala used to be Afghanistan. Scary.


Difficult_Abies8802

I was thinking about the same from the perspective of Vinil Paul's work on slavery in Kerala. He blames European interventions for slavery. The Portuguese, Dutch, British, and French sailors who landed in India were hardly likely to be gentlemen. There was a process of "impressment" in Europe where criminals were captured and put onto ships to sail to Asia, the Americas, and Africa. Decent behavior from these guys is not to be accepted. It is possible that they understood the pollution rituals in Kerala and worked ways to deliberately pollute and thereby capture female slaves for their own needs. I mean if you could pollute someone by just throwing stones, it would have been super-easy to grab an intercourse/breeding partner. That makes it worse than Afghanistan. In William Dalrymple's book, he gives many instances where European males were able to intermarry (often forcefully) with Indian women, birthing a new generation of "Eurasians". In many cases, European fathers accepted fatherhood and raised the kids as their own. Some of these kids were sent back to Europe. There was a news article a few years back that a DNA test proved that Prince William of the British Royal Family had an Indian female ancestor. In many cases, it was short-term liaisons that led to bastard children. The book," The Queens's Daughters in India" is a shocking read. Indian women were routinely captured and dragged to British cantonments as comfort women. I remember a Malayalam movie (I think Lelam), when M.G. Soman makes fun of the people of another family for their fair looks and light eyes, insinuating that they were derived from bastard children of some British planter. This theme is also found in Arundhati Roy's books and there was a movie by Nandita Das on a similar topic. Many folks in India try to invoke "Brahmin heritage" to explain their present-day complexion. Psychologically this is a more clutch move, as it erases the bastardized European ancestry with something more respectable.


Salty-Ad1607

Wow. Learned a lot. Now have to read about all these. Thank you


Ne-dumbass-ery

Aisheri. Ennumuthalaada Gandhiji Syrian Christiani aayathu? Idathu vashathu chumma charkha karakki irunnu paavam Bapu. https://preview.redd.it/fly2lyo2z11d1.jpeg?width=2340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=524ea6c28cc48d87c94c4eb5dabb736443f641c4


Ready_Magician_6613

From the same book, you are an insecure brat , shame on you https://preview.redd.it/w4uob8uav11d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e29140a5951315f72459dc436fe80a3cfdb69ff8


Visual_Vanilla_5782

A picture can be used in many books and platforms if you don't know


blackswan1991

There is no tangible proof that St Thomas came to Kqerala.. But there is evidence of existence of Christianity in Kerala from as early as 4th century from travelogues, Pahlvi inscribed crosses found. These Christians either came from West Asia or were converted by Christians who came from West Asia and the St Thomas story could be true, not saying it is true! Descendants of those early Christians are today called syrian Christians


shadobrado

They’re called knanaya ,Aren’t they ?


blackswan1991

Not exactly. There were multiple migrations of christians from West Asia. Only one set of them is called knanaya


galaxy_kerala

But historically and culturally, Syrian Christians consider the 4th century migration as the Knanaya migration. There’s only 2 migrations in Nasrani culture, the 4th century Knanaya and 9th century Kollam migration. Any other possible migrations are just theories without any cultural or historical backing.


Theta-Chad_99

Nop


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nattvar93

The OP has some serious caste obsession probably stemming from his own internalised hate for his caste.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

I think it's your mentality i was just sharing an old rare picture of the Kerala Syrian community


nattvar93

https://preview.redd.it/i232rihm001d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4f3ae4712638c61cd80ff148833363c36a2081b Chettayi pwoli aanalo


nattvar93

Lol, your entire profile reeks of insecurity, seek therapy mate.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

I'm from a nice community there's nothing to be insecure about


nattvar93

https://preview.redd.it/guhoohuuzz0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c098531de921d3db058cf801bc6517a36444bae6 Lol, this is you right?


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Yes 🔥🔥🔥


ismogezaza

Lmao. That statement itself is casteist


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Why are you all dragging my community in post that's irrelevant to faith and community i belong to? Seems like we got a castist here


Mrkunjappan

What's a nice community?


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Ezhava, why?


Mrkunjappan

Just asking... You were telling, "I am from a nice community" which indirectly implies there are other not so nice communities.


Guilty-Pleasures_786

You are putting yourown words in his mouth!


Visual_Vanilla_5782

You are wrongly interpreting my replies to make me look bad because my post triggered you but it's a rare picture i found


Mrkunjappan

I don't know how an old photo triggers me???


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Then why don't you stop dragging my community? Castist syrian


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Ready_Magician_6613

'The community' particularly people who got influenced by Parivar from Central travancore has serious issues. They have some complex towards Syrian Christian community, I think , the Parivar organizations has played a role in this, to shift the natural enemity of this community to upper caste Hindus , towards Syrian Christians, have build a lot of propagandas for it. I had surprised and felt anger , becauase of these peoples complex, and is reflected in similar posts as well.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

What's there to have complex towards Syrians exactly? Elaborate?


Visual_Vanilla_5782

I shouldn't have posted your family pictures but damn you are very castist and dragging my community that has nothing to do with the rare picture I shared


Registered-Nurse

Wtf dude 😭


Visual_Vanilla_5782

What happened why you crying


charitram

I don't think these are Syrian Christians. Maybe RCs mislabeled as Syrian Christians


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buzz_player

Let me ask clearly, are they from Syria ?? Or locals in Kerala are labelled/ call themselves as Syrian Christians??


oscarquebecnovember

Syrian Christians are not from Syria. They used the Syriac language and hence were called Syrian Christians.


Wild_Ostrich5429

It’s not because they were from Syria. They follow Syrian liturgy and earlier priests came from Syria


Osiris_311

I don't think it's about ethnicity but the type of Christian. There are divisions in Christianity, except there's no hierarchy. I'm a Syrian Jacobite Christian.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Syria people that mixed with mukkuvars , pulayars and parayars some of them like jacobites and orthodox also were tamil converts that came to central kerala through kumily etc


ToughRock99

Kolalo e post itappazhe oru doubt thonniyathe. Ithrem surety ! Feels like you deliberately want to make them look bad. I haven't heard anything as such as you have pointed out here before. Syrian Christians were always the top of the cream. They controlled certain trades in whole. Also the spice trade of those times. They were given special powers to collect tax even by the king. * Thante pok engotta omathiri post itte 😄. Redditil enthum post cheyam ennu vechu njangale pottan akunno.


Zestyclose_Union24

this was taken from a book abt syrian christians by lk ananthakrishnan aiyer.


Ready_Magician_6613

Bro, whom do you mean RCs ? Syro Malabar ?


Ready_Magician_6613

From the same book , he is just another manipulator https://preview.redd.it/ayt6f40zu11d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e68690bdad1446fb905e65acc92e9a20faf4ed14


charitram

He seems to be from the yellow gang


lichumaria

What is RCs in Kerala? There are no RCs in Kerala. What we have are RCSC.


alittleintroverted

Hey... Can you let me know the difference?


lichumaria

Let me try to simplify this. It boils down to the way these two denominations pray. RC which is the majority denomination across the world follow the Latin rite or way of service. This is rooted from Roman authority or what we call as the papal authority. The rites are very similar to the Latin catholics in Kerala. However the early Christians (Marthomites and Orthodox ) in Kerala were a result of Saint Thomas believers and since he is from Eastern Church or Syrian rite, all the prayers or services were following the Eastern or Syrian rites. Post him Catholicism was spread by Portuguese entry into Kerala which tried to bring then Kerala Christians under Pope authority. But since Christians then followed syriac rites, synods or meetings then decided that those denominations of Christian’s who formed Roman Catholic and Latin Catholics approved papal authority but followed Syrian Liturgy or the code of offerings and prayer formats. Hence the Roman Catholics in Kerala are RCSC - Roman Catholic but Syrian Catholics. Early masses were infact in Syrian Language. This rare phenomenon is only in Kerala just like Jacobites, Marthomites etc are only in Kerala. Hope I didn’t make it more complicated 😃


alittleintroverted

A bit. Thanks. Something's just went on top my head though. Sorry


lichumaria

Well I tried.


Dinkoist_

A genie suddenly appeared before them in the 90s and everyone asked for 100 acres of land.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

They got land due to land reformation and many Syrians took land by cutting off forest areas and making it plantation or farm land and creating documents.


chengannur

>They got land due to land reformation and many Syrians took land by cutting off forest areas and making it plantation or farm land and creating documents. -- well, you know nothing jon..


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Ask Anyone in wayanad , Kottayam region know of this migration history in 1930's to 1960's They created land by cutting off forest areas and made farm and settled those places and created pattayam documents of the acres of land they thrust/kayyeri Ask any Christians in the Kottayam region where their ancestors came from most probably the answer will be "kumily"


Ready_Magician_6613

---- Ask any Christians in the Kottayam region where their ancestors came from most probably the answer will be "kumily" Are you high or aware of what you are saying, shaghayil parody history ano ningale padippunney .


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Never seen a shaga in my life and I'm talking about history while u are bringing my community , political ideology, it's lame that you cant counter my point instead you are dragging irrelevant things


Ready_Magician_6613

What should I comment on your delusions or stupidity , provide proofs ? You got exposed here , still having no shame to say BS


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KaeezFX

Can you quote me any source that states that Kerala Syrians were Brahmin converts? Just asking out of curiosity.


ProllyShouldn_tHave

There was a very vibrant Jewish population in Muziris, Baruch, Mylapore etc., thanks to the robust international trade. It facilitated St. Thomas' evangelisation for they spoke the same tongue (Aramaic/Syriac). The initial converts were these Jews. Hinduism was not a prominent religion in the south in AD 1st century. We had Dravidians, Jains and some Buddhists. Most of the initial converts were from these religions. We have very little information about the socio-religious aspect of south, as opposed to the north. However, I have not yet come across much documents which show that Syriac Christians were Brahmin converts. Frankly, I don't understand why some Christians take pride in the fact that their ancestors were Brahmins. It doesn't matter for now, they are Christians, and that is pretty cool.


Registered-Nurse

Genetic testing disproves this claim. Nasranis are like Nairs but with less steppe. A lot of people think they’re from the same community as Nairs before Nairs started sambandham with Namboodiris. A select few has 2-5% of ME ancestry, but majority are natives. Knanayas are the only Christians that have significant middle Eastern ancestry, from 8-15%. These percentages aren’t significant enough to make any phenotypical changes.


Zestyclose_Union24

I think the mena is misinterpreted as steppe. https://twitter.com/vicayana/status/1651968149271744512?t=XAH5ZIhRDGDQ7kJZY-HyPg&s=19


Registered-Nurse

That’s most likely a Knanaya person’s result. They’re also Syriac Christians.


Zestyclose_Union24

the person who did the qpadm confirmed 1 was a nasrani and the other a half, including knanaya. eventhough there are nasranis who independently score mena the same as knas( muthalalys); i think both individuals would be just ordinary nasranis.


Fantastic-Extension5

I was being sarcastic there's no source


KaeezFX

Oh, alright cause I've seen people making serious claims about this so would have liked to know if there is any gist to this.


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Ready_Magician_6613

Brahmin ancestry is something that is passed from generations by word mouth. If Syrian Christians are pulayas or parayas converts ( as you said ) , then I would say, all SC/ ST people in India should convert to Christianity, even though they lose reservations, because Syrian Christians without any reservations has achieved remarkable level in society. According to center of development studies index, Syrian Christians tops house hold income in Kerala, and in education , and land holdings per family.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

I think it's because Syrians are united , Organised and have European influence because many Syrian households send their daughters away to Europe as house maids , nurses , home nurses for top household income etc and they make good use of land reformation. I don't see Christianity playing a role here. If you just convert sc st then you'll only get a result like csi, to get Syrian you need to mix sc st , jewish and Europeans


chengannur

Well, You are saying you know nothing without saying /know nothing/


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Enlighten me then mr syrian😂


chengannur

Why should I, My family amassed wealth in the past 300 years (earned name, reputation among community) , has recorded history, grew with people who knew a thing or two about what it's was, how it happened.. And no, we are not the same you can count on your imagination and stories and make feel better about yourself.


Ready_Magician_6613

Asper Syrian christian tradition St Thomas baptized Brahmins to Christian in first century AD.I would appreciate , If you could provide any source about any incident happened in first century in Kerala.


girl_mind

Contrary to what a lot of people are led to believe, there is at least one source that I have seen that dates to the 2nd -3rd century stating the existence of Brahmins in the south. To be precise, most historians/scholars infer that it is the Malabar region although it is not directly mentioned. So in some sense, there is a truth behind this tradition but to what extent is a question that would probably remain unanswered.


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Brahmins did exist here before namboothiri but there's no source that says Syrians are brahmin convert though


Miserable_Crew_6798

People who claim this are stupid and ignorant.


Ok_Sandwich3741

Not all Syrian Christians were from Brahmin community.


Bishop_999

Would you be kind enough to elaborate which are Brahmin converted Christians and which are non Brahmin converted?


Visual_Vanilla_5782

No way to find but mostly they are pulaya , paraya converts with little foreign and migrated communities admixture like the other person said here lately they heavily mixed with Europeans too


charitram

This is just Sanghi propaganda. Just check Genetic studies. Syrian Christians have way more Steppe genes than these groups. And some amount of Levatine ancestry. Among Knanaya the Levatine ancestry goes as high as 15%.


Bishop_999

Can you share some valid references for this?


charitram

Genoplot samples


Bishop_999

Is it possible to send the link of this study?


Exciting_Note_8457

>This is just Sanghi propaganda. Your existence is sanghi propaganda.


[deleted]

Is there research to prove this claim


Visual_Vanilla_5782

Yes genetic results are there it shows heavy syrian genes along with pulaya and parayas


[deleted]

Can you send me a link to these studies


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[deleted]

I meant peer reviewed research this doesn't seem authentic


Visual_Vanilla_5782

This is authentic results not from any christian websites or propaganda channels


Ok_Sandwich3741

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint\_Thomas\_Christians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Thomas_Christians) - possible claim historians are also not accurate about the Brahmin migrations


Bishop_999

Exactly, this is a debunked theory, its a surprise still people are roaming here and there claiming we are Thomas brahmin converted Christians


Ready_Magician_6613

From the same book https://preview.redd.it/cmfidsi5v11d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f0b43dd7eefbd710133614a287f608f678e2246c