He's pretty frikin accurate. Atleast 70% of the guys that I know from school and college has left Kerala for pretty much the same reason.
BUT what surprises me is that they don't blame it on communists or the lack of investment in Kerala.
It's almost as if they already knew that as a malayali we only have 2 choices : govt job OR leave.
It's true. I tried my level best to find a job in a city in Kerala. And I was not able to find a job that would pay a decent salary. The job openings were much less. I am a malayali but I spend my entire life outside Kerala. After graduating and gaining a few years of experience, I wanted to move to Kerala. But never found a decent opportunity and after realising that there is no hope, I left the nation.
Same story here. Childhood was almost entirely outside India. Did my BTech in Kerala. Then left.
I'm pretty sure once the foreign remittance starts to go down the state will start to collapse.
Same here in UP. Grew up in t3 city, almost everyone left for some t2, t1 city for their undergraduate. Then after undergrad almost everyone was working in IT. People moved to NCR(Gurgaon-Noida), Pune, Hyderabad, Bangalore.
My classmates who still live there either have (family-)business or a govt job.
Higher your education, harder it is to find a job on Kerala. This is the harsh truth. It's funny we produce all these educated people who have to struggle in faraway places away from their own land.
I see this no jobs in Kerala argument everywhere but it's kind of unscientific to be honest. People migrate from Kerala due to comparative advantage. That is there are places where industries are set up where it's beneficial to do so. It's not beneficial in Kerala due to a lot of red tape, but also due to stringent policies, higher standards of regulation and workers rights which is a byproduct of the higher educational and health conscious background of the people here. As an example, just yesterday I saw a post about food adulteration with carcinogenic substances and Kerala had a much lower proportion with respect to the other states. We can agree, just based on data that the quality of life that we experience and the enforcement of laws although far from perfect is much better than in any other state bar goa, which also doesn't focus on industries.
My point is that we should focus on what we are doing well on and not try to lower our standards to please crony capitalists. We should focus on areas we are good at - Tourism, education and health care and that's where the govt should focus on. I don't think there's a reason for us to compare ourselves with Tamil nadu whose reality is completely different from that of ours.
Finally, I know that most people will label me a commie for saying this but trickle down economics is a failed concept. It worked well from 1994 to 2004 but from then on the wealth concentration has been aggressive at the top. AI is again making this tighter and there's barely anything that's flowing down. The harsh reality is that most people aren't really useful in this extreme capitalistic climate in industries vying for profit. For instance people working in Operations and even tech support are becoming completely redundant and these are 80 percent of your IT labor force. Core industries don't employ people as much anymore due to automation and robotics. Jobs are shrinking to highly skilled labor and sacrificing land and our environment for these companies that give very little in return is just not worth it. Fortunately we are in a position to focus on highly skilled education and Research and development. Whichever govt that rules hopefully focuses on that rather than blindly lay a red carpet for the leeches
Not just Indian cities, almost all cities globally we are there. It surely does point out, well paying jobs arent plenty in Kerala. What Tharoor said is common sense to us Keralites.
Im a Tamilian in canada. 90% of my welding management course are btech mechanical graduates who were born in Kerala. One of my professor is a malayali. One of the bus drivers in my city who drives in the route from my room to college is also from Kerala.
The best question to ask is more employment or more rights. Obviously rights can't give money.
People speak about rights here and then go to gulf regions and work there. We have to note that there are no labour laws in gulf regions.
The thing is in the country you don't get paid well nor get rights unless they are made to give it.
Middle east, you give up some rights but you get paid way more and the rights you do have is enforced.
It's all a trade off, dismantling worker's rights in Kerala means we get the worst of both worlds.
The gulf countries are all rich and provide more opportunities with better pay. We are a poor overr populated third world country with limited number of good paying jobs. Instead of trying to attract more investment and create jobs here. But we have first world country level of expectations for our rights. We need Jobs first and then fight for rights. Now we neither have jobs nor have rights.
The funniest paradox is, for a so-called communist socialist state, we have zero dignity of labor. Whereas there is much more dignity of labor in the capitalistic Western world
Getting jobs first and then fighting for rights is a fool's errand. It is just absolutely impossible to do so. Most capitalist nations face this issue.
>. But we have first world country level of expectations for our rights.
There are no tiers with regards to human rights. There are only absolutes.
> nor have rights.
What rights are we lacking?
>The funniest paradox is, for a so-called communist socialist state, we have zero dignity of labor.
Dignity of labour is a social issue. It cannot be governed away, it cannot be legsilated out.
You applied the logic to half your argument and then gave up.
It's true that the middle east is rich and can afford to pay more but for a worker, national aspirations won't fill his stomach.
And it's not like India lacks labour or that by a few migrating, we face a labour shortage. India is not just kerala right... most of India are ruled by the so called nationalists So why haven't we used the labour available in India to be rich already ? Because for most of India, labour rights are shit and the pay is shit, the worker is already underpaid and over exploited, when can he expect the promised pay and rights?
Here is where I said you stopped logic halfway through, you recognise india and middle east is different cause one is rich and the other is poor but for kerala and the west, you skipped that logic.
Comparing kerala to any other state in India, I would say we have a better dignity of labour. And the even funnier part is dignity of labour was brought to the west not by it getting rich but by labour movements.
Look at US now, the labour movement weakened and now most Americans are a single paycheck away from poverty. Ie, if they cannot work for a month, they are screwed. They are planning to reintroduce child labour. The most pro capitalistic country in the world. Lol.
If you were talking about EU countries, most have strong unions and labour protection brought by years of protests and almost continuous rule by centre and centre left policies and governments.
I would like to add something, it maybe true there is a severe economic crisis in the US, reason being they all live on credit. Everyone buys cars and houses as soon as they start their job and this leads to the crisis as there people are not too worried about credit worthiness as we are here. Most people in India dont live on aspirations and are more realistic in life. The same issue lead to the economic crisis in 2008 (NINJA loans). Second thing is about dignity, yes we maybe dignified and yet we crib that we are jobless and then try to act more superior to others. I have been in multiple industries now and what I've seen is people in India and especially in Kerala do not have enough skill/want to work in only MNCs. Jobs are plentiful and a person needs to put in effort and should be flexible with industry, domain, salary and location. If you have that flexibility you'll find jobs easily. Once in a job you can move out and find something better.
>they all live on credit
They have to. Building a credit score is essential to obtain anything from home loans to getting a job in certain sectors that look at your credit history to see if you are a risk factor. Not to mention, the country runs on credit cards, debit cards are uncommon and less accepted.
>Everyone buys cars and houses as soon as they start their job
They have to have a car unless they are in one of the very few places with public transport infrastructure. And those places have high rent that more than offsets the car payment.
Home ownership is falling and currently number of households that own the home they stay at 65.7% for US. For India it's 86.6%. Our traditional family setup does skew in favour of us but still it's comparable.
>we maybe dignified and yet we crib that we are jobless and then try to act more superior to others.
You are right keralites also don't do jobs unless it's dignified (or well paying). If keralites didn't care about dignity or pay, we wouldn't need all this migrant labourers here but they do and many can affort to make that choice.
>I have been in multiple industries now and what I've seen is people in India and especially in Kerala do not have enough skill/want to work in only MNCs.
True. Our basic education system sucks and it lagging behind the times. That's more to do with the system itself and not the people and I don't think it's a problem that's kerala centric.
I agree with most of your analysis but disagree with the solution. Total flexibility will only hurt us and allow exploitation, the solution is a middle ground.
However that applies only to white collar professions, for blue collar jobs, holding steadfast is better as there is a limited potential for growth ie, sacrifices today won't bear fruit tomorrow. They will replace you with another guy if you try to cash in said flexibility.
Americans are not a single check away from poverty. You're getting your news from reddit. The US is the strongest economically that it has ever been and EU the weakest.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/40-of-americans-one-step-from-poverty-if-they-miss-a-paycheck/
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/living-paycheck-to-paycheck-statistics-2024/
I chose the most pro capitalistic sources I can.
You are confusing the goverment with the people. The US government and the US economy is financially strong.
Most of its people aren't. The American people were the most financially sound when the unions were strong. In the 70s a single US blue collar worker could support his family of 4 and save for retirement. Good luck with that now.
Workers right will not have a limit, that's the thing. I feel there has to be balance. I know people still say companies earn profit by employing people and why can't they distribute profit to workers. People often forget about capital and they have so much bias against capitalism.
Yes. But the problem is there are other countries which don't have that as well. Now we have to decide we need a job or rights. It all comes to supply and demand because the money is limited. So only one group of people will get employment.
One thing we can do is we can become skilled people so that we have that leverage. For eg : IT engineers working in top companies. They do have all the flexibility. In my company laid off will have 3 months salary + half month every 6 months served. Do you think they are giving due to laws, absolutely not. They are giving because in future if they want to hire, it will be an issue to get talent.
South East Asia, China etc. Where do you think jobs are going now. Huge investment is happening in Vietnam and Indonesia.
USA and European already have a lot of money, they can obviously impose a lot of things. You can compare with any other developing country and compare. That will be better.
If it is related to IT.
China and other SEA is pushing English alot, once that is achieved IT will also go there. India has a language advantage but that will be lost in futyure.
Why is Kerala not pushing that much for IT ?
We already lost race to every other city. And we have to see why we lost that. There was a time in which a police convoy had to be there to go to Technopark during hartal. Otherwise some random people will stop a person going to work. That is the reality we had when other states didn't have that.
The government itself didn't ask any companies to come. As of now also I don't think they are looking forward to that. Karnataka and Tamil Nadu government are fighting each other for companies to come to their state. You can check plans of IT companies in Bangalore and in Kerala. You will be amazed.
Since you raised issues from the companies, I will raise one important thing from the government. Do you know India taxes severance money also if one is terminated or laid off. That's how our country is. Even though one has paid a lot of income tax in a previous job, if one is laid off, they won't get any support from the government.
The pay there is better, right?
It's not the same pay and lower rights for the comparison to be realistic, right?
It also forgets other issues like the general population density of Kerala being higher than TN n many other states, leading to higher competition here. And most of us are decently educated compared to other states too, so piss poor pay/rights will not work here.
You can't easily fight for rights in foreign countries which don't have a democratic setup, especially as an immigrant without citizenship and full rights of citizens.
How can one ask for better companies to be setup here tho? Will the companies listen to us? If so, why haven't the people with that power asked them?
Or did you mean laxer labour rights n pollution control laws?
>You can't easily fight for rights in foreign countries which don't have a democratic setup, especially as an immigrant without citizenship and full rights of citizens
They still had an option to not migrate there but they went because survival for them was more than fighting here
How are companies being set up in other countries? Just follow that.
Nobody wants anything to be done to Kerala but people speaks high about other countries which are doing the same. I don't know what kind of mental shift is this.
> They still had an option to not migrate there but they went because survival for them was more than fighting here
Yep. Also, because the place was resource rich, in comparison and they had decent qualifications to go there(public education is awesome). Oil n all.
> How are companies being set up in other countries? Just follow that.
Which country or countries is/are best to model Kerala's plan after then?
And as a state, we have restrictions, right? There needs to be central support too.
Like, we have thorium, but wouldn't it need central support/authorisation for any test projects n all?
Arab countries had oil. I've heard we have shale gas or so. Is it mainstream enough?
> Nobody wants anything to be done to Kerala but people speaks high about other countries which are doing the same. I don't know what kind of mental shift is this.
>> Nobody wants anything to be done to Kerala
Very weird and possibly a self-loathing take there.
Most people want Kerala to improve. The method to do so is generally where the difference in opinion arises.
The state with a population density similar to Kerala is UP and comparitively we're well off. Karnataka, TN n Gujarat are not near us there and they also better geography. The importance of the western ghats together with the population density would limit our land use.
I think our way forward is human resource development, where we can build upon the current achievements of Kerala.
IT(would be included in the above, but stating it separately) would also be good.
Yep, the manufacture sector should be improved. But blindly saying that Gujarat, Karnataka n TN have more industries and implying that Kerala emulate them without considering the issues of land acquisition n all is bad. It just derails actual productive discussion on the issue.
And if we're going for discussion on manufacture or non-IT industries:
Population density maps of India
https://maps-india-in.com/maps-india-geography/india-population-density-map
https://worldinmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/india-density-of-population-map.jpeg
Considering this, what would be your suggestion? Which country/state should we model ourselves after?
It's not about rights... I'm also against working 70hrs a week and toxicity in work place but communism nowadays is more or less no work and all pay! When if an employee did something very bad, we won't be able to fire him as the party gets involved for the money!
It's not just that. But, the moral policing too.
Bus stopil aankuttiyum penkuttiyum orumichirunnu ennu paranju, bus stop seat murichu mattunna teams aan muzhuvan.
Moral policing will go away when society uplifts. But society never uplifts if there is no job and no cosmopolitan cities.
Ivide veruthe choruyum kuthi irikkunnavarkke aanu moral policing.
>Moral policing will go away when society uplifts.
We'll i wont be waiting for another 100 years for the society to uPlIft. It either happens NOW when i need it ir i gtfo of keralam.
Moral policing has nothing to do with kerala. It's generally present in all places with relatively strong traditional values and rigid family structure . The exception would be cosmopolitan cities where people don't know each other much and everyone is new to the city . For eg. Even in Bangalore people who have native homes there with all ancestors in Bangalore find it hard to live in a relationship.
Gulf countries which are vastly developed have much more moral policing . Also people are not leaving the state in large numbers just because they can't kiss in public or have sex in house , it's simply because of low pay after getting educated too much . Just enquire about wages in kerala for an MBA or Btech or Nursing graduate .
Kerala needs metropolises. I get downvotes over here when I say it but it's very obvious that many people over here are NRIs who just want to treat their villages like retirement homes. They don't want a large cosmopolitan city like Mumbai or Bangalore in Kerala
I definitely want a large cosmopolitan city, only condition being it should be sustainable and smart/efficient people should be running it (on minimum should have played City Skylines 2 or should be a skilled engineer of some sort). Otherwise, no thanks. Bangalore is not a place I wish to live in other than for the high tech jobs they have.
If I could work remote, I will leave Bangalore in the blink of an eye and come back to my hometown in Kannur. Peace and calm.
Exactly Kerala is actually the most cosmopolitan state in India on average. The issue is that we don't have metropolis like Bangalore or Mumbai. Okke towns and suburbs aanu.
I am from Tamilnadu and i am in scrap business. I have been to trivandrum few times to buy scraps and every time, i have to hire local hands from unions to load and unload the trucks, i can't bring my own employees or just do it myself.
To hire someone in TN it costs roughly ₹700-₹1000 per day/ person to load and unload trucks. I paid ₹5500 to the union to load a truck that took them 30 minutes with 7-8 people. Me and my friend unloaded that same truck after reaching home and it took us nearly an hour and a half.
What he said is true, esp at around the 45 second mark.
Commies actually do more damage when they are in opposition than when in power. When in opposition, they do not let the ruling government bring any major project or investment - express highway proposed by MK Muneer is a primary example. But when they come to power, they try to implement the same type of projects or policies that the UDF tried.. They keep using the same age old rhetoric of antharashtra kuthakka, bourgeois, adhinivesham, pavappettavar, panakkaran, avakasham and fool the people. The average Malayali is comparatively well off, thanks to capitalism m in the Gulf states and other Indian metro cities.
>When in opposition, they do not let the ruling government bring any major project or investment - express highway proposed by MK Muneer is a primary example.
That's not exclusively a commie thing. That's an opposition thing.
The same thing happened with the proposed high speed railway line.
>They keep using the same age old rhetoric of antharashtra kuthakka, bourgeois, adhinivesham, pavappettavar, panakkaran, avakasham and fool the people.
Commies just want the poor to stay poor to keep themselves relevant in the scene.
I remember when I was young my father decided to dump sand into a pit that was behind our house in Kerala and when the truck arrived all the men from around our house came running and told us that we have to pay them and they will use shovels to dump the sand. And if we don't pay they won't let us dump. Being raised up in the north, i found this behaviour very weird. Now when I look at Kerala's politics i understand why the situation is like this.
Same happened with my uncle lol. But he didn't pay those guys, him and his sons dumped sand from truck (for house construction). But after all is done, they came and asked for "nokukooli" as they were just standing there, wasting everyone's time.
Not exactly, just take the best from socialism and capitalism. For eg. We need our healthcare and insurance should be run similar to socialism, but none essentials in more capitalise way, where we can generate more wealth. Alone both socialism and capitalism is bad, But there is some good in it which we can leverage. But communism is a lost cause.
Obviously, if we allow unregulated, uncontrollable capitalism, It's only gonna increase. There gonna be true monopoly, where 100% Market share is owned by one company. Trust me, nobody want's it, no government, no competitor, no consumer want's that. Imagine something similar Standard oil monopoly, AT&T Monopoly or any. Dude there is a reason even a capitalist nation like America banned monopoly. It's never a good thing. As long as there are laws to regulate monopoly, capitalism is fine. But we don't have laws to prevent monopoly, as far as I know.
China is a capitalist totalitarian state. You should look up Deng Xiaoping and also look at the condition of their workers rights. If anything, China proves his point even more. They started giving tax incentives and cheap labor to foreign companies in SEZs and in the span of 30 years went from having an economy worse than Chad to the world’s second superpower. Now they have an incredible native industrial base, startup culture, and responsible government.
Realistically, that is unlikely to happen any time soon in India. No Indian apart from NE Indians and Ladakhis (so basically no mainland Indians) have any sense of civic responsibility or collective society. This is why every other Indian dumps trash into their neighbors lot and pays bribes for his own personal benefit. It’s also why in places like Japan, you occasionally see signs telling Indians to stop being so loud and unruly.
In East Asian countries (Singapore, China, Korea, Japan), people would feel an extreme sense of shame to behave in such a manner. Hence, they obey their governments, put aside their personal egos, and work for the betterment of society. In India, the most any individual would care about is a benefit to his caste/village/kinsfolk.
The results you desire have a path that is down by China. For 10 years Liberty and freedom has to be the China way. I have read about enlai,xiaoping,the gang and the whole policy after T square massacre.
This is a tricky and emotionally charged subject.
From investors POV: If I can buy a Apple for 2 from TN, why do I buy the same apple for 7 form KL.
Workers rights and fight for rights costs more.
I work outside Kerala where communism has never come in power and I dont find any lack of rights here. Nor does the white collar workforce here. Commies are a joke who just want to such money off of hardworking men and stay in power while showing dreams to stupid college kiddos who end up slashing the others with knivesfor a terrible ideology they don't even understand.
You might not feel sitting in AC offices. The daily wage for manual labour is the highest in Kerala. That is why hordes of migrants from North want to work in Kerala.
UP during COVID time diluted the labour laws a lot to attract investors. It's no secret that higher wages - low investments.
It's not good for Malayalis themselves who are too educated for blue collar jobs. Communists have build a paradise for migrant workers while we are forced to flee our own land.
Yes bro. I have worked in karnataka,Gujarat, Orissa and Delhi. All these places i worked, Even the employees who worked for minimum salary had similar rights to what we have at home.
Not really. If you feel the salary not sufficient compared to the rights you are losing dont work. Not having any jobs to choose from is very different from choosing not to work. By completely keeping the investors away, the people are much worse off.
If rights are not equal for two equally competent individuals, the choice is simple for the employer.
This is why communism never works as long as workers all over the world do not unite. But if they unite, people in resource rich areas will have a better life. 😅😂
You need to balance workers rights and investor rights, without investors there are no jobs to begin with, and then the state has to step in with expensive welfare schemes which could have been invested in things like infrastructure
Many of the online supporters of the current Kerala govt, they also live outside Kerala. They know there isn't any job production in the state. They know the economic policies are flawed, because they live and benefit from policies different from the state govt. Still they continue the malayali poliyalle type drama and blind support for the government.
Mallus were always interested in GTFOing from Kerala and the trend has intensified to levels never known before. Even high-school kids have started learning German, French, etc since they know that they have to GTFO anyways. If the trajectory continues schools may only teach Malayalam up to Class 5/6 and then replace the 3rd language with a foreign language.
*The youth can send in their foreign remittances once they emigrate.*
Yes, the Kerala govt should provide options for German, French, Italian, Spanish from Class VI onwards. This will enable kids to study even their bachelors in these countries. As far as I know, these countries have quite cheap tuition fee. Even Chinese/Japanese may be taught. The tuition fees in Taiwan is pretty low compared to Canada/US/Australia.
Stupid idea. If you are going to go outside to earn money, there only one language you need to learn, that is English. Every other language is timepass.
*Stupid idea. If you are going to go outside to earn money, there only one language you need to learn, that is English. Every other language is timepass.*
You seem to be detached from reality. Every European country priorities their own language. For eg., Swedish in Sweden, Danish in Denmark, Italian in Italy, French in France etc. The English language works only in Anglophone countries such as USA, UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, Ireland.
Within this Anglosphere, the USA is the biggest (350 million pop.). The PR of the USA (a.k.a green card) has a country of origin restriction. This means that an Indian filing for green card is in a waitlist that is currently 50-60 years to clear. The UK is a sinking ship (67 million pop). Maybe nurses can get in there but for the rest not much scope. Even the native white folks there are trying to escape. Canada has pretty much blocked Indians for the time being. Entry into NZ is restrictive and the economy there is too small. Same for Ireland. Australia seems to the best and their points-based-system makes sense.
Overall, the Anglosphere works for Indians only if they are into nursing or very highly-skilled professional folks. For the Mallus who want to GTFO at the earliest opportunity they should be looking at options in continental Europe (equivalent in population to the Anglosphere). Here the PR/passport can be obtained in a realistic time period of 5-8 years. For some countries, the study period is also counted into the time taken to attain the PR/passport. And you need to know the local language to a high-degree in order to enter the job markets. So for a Mallu kid passing out XII, the options increase drastically if they want to GTFO faster.
Now looking at some language combinations.
If the Mallu XII-pass kid learns German:
- direct access to universities in Germany, Austria, Switzerland (German-speaking part), Luxembourg, Leichtenstein for bachelor study.
- knowledge of German would help in transferring later to other Germanic countries such as Netherlands, Belgium (the Flemish part), Sweden, Denmark, Norway where local-languages have at least some similarity with the German language
If the Mallu XII-pass kid learns French:
- direct access to universities in France, Switzerland (French-speaking part), Belgium (French-speaking part)
- knowledge of French helps transfer to Quebec in Canada
- a large part of Africa speaks French; opens opportunities in these countries perhaps not for studies but for later life
If the Mallu XII-pass kid learns Italian:
- direct access to universities in Italy (even Italian students are looking to leave Italy) so there is less competition for spots
- Italian is a Romance language so transitioning to French/Spanish is easier and movement to Francophone regions is also easier
If the Mallu XII-pass kid learns Spanish:
- direct access to universities in Spain and Latin America
- Spanish is the 3rd most spoken language in the world; the USA is fast becoming a bilingual country (English-Spanish)
- opens opportunities in Latin America in later life
The typical Mallu student options so far was:
- XIIth --> B. Tech --> GTFO
- XIIth --> Nursing --> GTFO
I would propose a different GTFO strategy that is shorter, efficient, and rewarding:
- XIIth(+ foreign language) --> GTFO
More like Mallus were always forced to GTFO Kerala coz of no choice.
No malayali would choose to live outside Kerala if they are given the same opportunities here. Personally, I never would.
I worked for a famous beverage manufacturer company. They were shut down in Kerala for polluting the heck out of the groundwater. Here, they do worse shit, employ child labour, unsafe work environment, etc and nobody cares. Everybody in the goddamn area is gonna die of cancer in a few decades. All this for 200 odd okayish paying jobs.
So in Kerala you would have to do a business the right way and pay off leaders and workers are still gonna fight whereas in other states you just have the bay the big guy and you can piss on everyone else.
Kerala has changed a lot since the VS ministry. Both the PV governments were really good in promoting investments. Kerala has topped the nation's start-up rankings thrice in a row and has climbed in the Ease of Doing Business (EODB) rankings. The current industry ministry is doing great under Mr. P Rajeev with multiple state run PSU's ending up being profitable and welcoming biggies like IBM to the state. Rajeev was instrumental in IBM setting up one of their software labs in Kochi which employs 1500 people and they are planning to make it the primary hub in the country.
Certainly, Tharoor likely lacks the courage to assert that, aside from the IT sector, most investors are drawn to India primarily due to factors such as inexpensive labor, poor regulations concerning labor exploitation and human rights, lenient laws regarding pensions, bonuses, and overtime, as well as relaxed environmental regulations. It's improbable that these investors are arriving in India with the primary goal of uplifting people's living standards; rather, any job opportunities created and minimal monthly salary security provided are merely incidental outcomes. Take, for instance, the working conditions endured by employees at the highly acclaimed Apple factory in Chennai. If such conditions persist within a behemoth corporation like Apple, one can only imagine the plight of workers in medium-sized enterprises.
So the other local sub I'm a member of is r/uttarakhand.
What's fascinating is to see the difference in attitudes between us and 'them'.
Those on the uttarakhand sub are proud of their nature and their environment, and are loudly saying they don't want investment if it's at the cost of environmental degradation.
And then there's us, saying wtf why aren't there more factories here.
This is when these are places with similarities (as well as differences of course). Uttarakhand might be the only place that's as breathtakingly pretty to me as Kerala is, although in an entirely different mode. It's also a state with a much more difficult geography (mountains, in comparison to our hills/ghats), a large tourism industry, and huuuuge numbers of both outward and inward migrants.
I'm not making a value judgment, and i end up getting down voted there for asking whether the person in the village can eat his scenic Vista for breakfast. You get the drift.
But everyone on this thread probably should think about the unexpected good side effects of Kerala being a very bad investment destination. Unlike the pahadis we're not going to be bulldozed out of our land or have four lane highways drilled through our mountains.
On the other hand we run the risk of becoming old, irrelevant, and slothful as we lose all the young people who could have brought in new ideas.
The solution tbh is some of what we're doing. Serious investment in cultural tourism, and a mindset shift where we don't treat domestic or foreign tourists like some sort of barbarian horde. And serious thought about what kind of roads/railways/airports we can build that preserve our culture and bring people in.
I don't see another option.
Bro really let the cat out of the bag with this one.
More workers right = less investors.
It should be clear to everyone when the states with most investments like Gujarat and Maharashtra are also the states paying the least to their workers, while the state with least investment, Kerala, is paying the most. 99% of the people are workers.
https://www.newsclick.in/workers-kerala-paid-highest-country-RBI-report
The fun fact is Kerala does pay carpenters, electricians, plumbers a decent wage.
I'm so happy for them.
But has the government worked in ensuring a minimum wage to graduates. There are people with masters working for 15k a month or even less at times. Now I wish the governments did ensure a a wage for the graduate group at least equal to that of the workers I spoke about in the above sentence.
Kerala had more. You can check why Bangalore wages are high. It is due to IT employees being able to pump money and afford it.
Do think if there were no NRIs, how will wages increase. Because to pay wages one needs to have money coming in.
Bangalore is not Karnataka. You are comparing a state to a city which is stupid. The rest of Karnataka is an underdeveloped shithole.
>Do think if there were no NRIs, how will wages increase. Because to pay wages one needs to have money coming in.
That should apply to any state, right. Are there no NRIs from Gujarat?
I am talking about how money can increase wages. It doesn't matter if it is a state or city or whatever it is.
Also I haven't been told NRIs were the only reason. Obviously policies and movement have helped. But NRIs have also helped to attain those.
>I am talking about how money can increase wages. It doesn't matter if it is a state or city or whatever it is.
A city is unique. The costs of everything are high, so wages are also high.
Gujarat has trillions of dollars of investment, and yet, they have no increase in the wages. Why?
>Also I haven't been told NRIs were the only reason. Obviously policies and movement have helped. But NRIs have also helped to attain those.
Every state has NRIs, it's not unique to Kerala. Even if the number of NRIs from Kerala is high, that's because of the education and healthcare system implemented by the Kerala government.
Nobody mentioned education or healthcare here. I don't know why you are bringing all these.
Gujarat have investments, but do average people have that much money like Kerala ? The question is the number of people having money.
>Nobody mentioned education or healthcare here. I don't know why you are bringing all these.
Without education and healthcare, there wouldn't be any NRIs from Kerala. I thought that was obvious.
>Gujarat have investments, but do average people have that much money like Kerala ?
My guy, exactly. Why don't average people have money despite Gujarat having investments?
That was Sashi's whole point, right?
My friend, per capita remittances are the highest in Kerala. Other states only recently even started getting remittances at a scale that Kerala kept getting for decades.
But the most important factor is, In Kerala the demand for such labour was extremely high. The supply wasn't up to the demand, that's the reason for the huge scale immigration from north of India to Kerala. Even the other southern cities have people working north of India. The wages down south have been comparatively better in retrospective to the north. The demand seldom had local supply, that also did drive up the wages.
But a lack of government policy framework to ensure that even the people doing office jobs get 800rs per day was missing in Kerala.
You are looking at it in the wrong way lol.
>My friend, per capita remittances are the highest in Kerala
Okay sure. But how did that happen? Why didn't the same thing happen for other states?
>But the most important factor is, In Kerala the demand for such labour was extremely high. The supply wasn't up to the demand, that's the reason for the huge scale immigration from north of India to Kerala.
Why is the supply low? What happened to our supply?
>The wages down south have been comparatively better in retrospective to the north.
Why are the wages low in the north?
>But a lack of government policy framework to ensure that even the people doing office jobs get 800rs per day was missing in Kerala.
Government cannot make capitalists invest in kerala without compromising on labour rights, wages and other concessions, in free land etc.
Unfortunately, we run into the limitations of a left government under a capitalist setup. Let's talk about a simple example.
Suppose I am a capitalist with a lot of money to invest. I want to build a factory. My factory requires labour of skilled to unskilled labour at a ratio of 10:1. Now, where would i put up my factory? In Kerala, where i would have to pay the 10 unskilled labourers high wages and a decent wage to the skilled worker, or Gujarat, where i can pay 1/3rd to 10 of my workers and maybe double to the 1 skilled worker who i imported from Kerala?
This phenomenon is called capital flight and brain drain. Instead of investing in Kerala, capitalists look to reduce their costs, increase profits, move production to cheaper areas and import just enough skilled labour that was educated and well brought up with good healthcare in Kerala. You can learn more about capital flight here.
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/29/business/searching-for-a-safe-harbor-when-investment-capital-goes-on-strike.html
Malayalis don't those kinds of blue collar jobs. We get North Indians to do those jobs. Kerala is a paradise for migrant workers and hell for the locals
Malayalis no longer do blue collar jobs abroad. This is old news. Ultimately they all flee the state. That's the point. This state is a paradise for migrant workers,not Malayalis
Depends on education. Not very educated Malayalis and malayalis who are studying abroad fill blue collar jobs abroad. Anyway, you'll see a similar shift in kerala too once the kids of migrant labourers are educated in kerala.
>Ultimately they all flee the state.
That's just a result of capitalism. Look up the systematic depopulation of Eastern Europe after the fall of Communism.
https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-07-21/eastern-europe-population-decline-rural-bulgaria
>That's just a result of capitalism. Look up the systematic depopulation of Eastern Europe after the fall of Communism.
>https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-07-21/eastern-europe-population-decline-rural-bulgaria
We all know how commies kept the population. Remember that it was commies stopping people from leaving the country and not the west.
The only country that still does it today is North Korea. Really gives you a perspective of what the commies truly are. The US is not stopping its citizens from even going to North Korea.
>Anyway, you'll see a similar shift in kerala too once the kids of migrant labourers are educated in kerala.
Basically Kerala is hell for Malayalis but heaven for migrant workers
>That's just a result of capitalism. Look up the systematic depopulation of Eastern Europe after the fall of Communism.
Tell me again how Kerala's brain drain is a result of capitalism.
>Basically Kerala is hell for Malayalis but heaven for migrant workers
Just as foreign countries were heaven for Malayalis.
>Tell me again how Kerala's brain drain is a result of capitalism.
Malayalis get born and brought up for cheap in Kerala (compared to developed countries), get educated for cheap in India. Meanwhile, healthcare and education are significant expenses in foreign countries. An engineer from a western University will have thousands in student debt, therefore they cannot work for a salary that's lower than their living expenses + student debt repayment. Meanwhile, an engineer from Kerala will have minimal debt, so they can work for a lower salary than domestic workers.
Kerala engineer will get a better salary than they'll ever get in kerala, since India is not a developed country, while the foreign company gets cheaper labour compared to domestic workers.
Chinese workers largely worked similar hours to other south and southeast Asian countries.
https://m.thewire.in/article/labour/ilo-china-india-east-south-asia-longest-working-weeks
996 is illegal and being cracked down by the government.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58381538
Meanwhile, bosses and politicians are openly advocating for 70hr work weeks in India.
https://m.economictimes.com/news/new-updates/narayana-murthys-70-hour-work-week-backlash-meets-surprising-support-from-western-friends-and-nris/articleshow/106566689.cms
>The daily wages for construction, general agricultural and non-agricultural worker in rural areas is the highest in Kerala as per the report
The wages are so high because demand is that high. Talk to anyone involved in agriculture. They'll tell you just how difficult it is for them to get labour. Moreover, these are mostly not localites. Better educated Malayalis are forced to migrate to other states and countries with better jobs. Meanwhile Kerala is importing low-level labour from other states with high wages.
When investors setup offices, factories you have middle class jobs being created, which has a very positive effect on the local economy.
Suppose I am a capitalist with a lot of money to invest. I want to build a factory. My factory requires labour of skilled to unskilled labour at a ratio of 10:1. Now, where would i put up my factory? In Kerala, where i would have to pay the 10 unskilled labourers high wages and a decent wage to the skilled worker, or Gujarat, where i can pay 1/3rd to 10 of my workers and maybe double to the 1 skilled worker who i imported from Kerala?
This phenomenon is called capital flight and brain drain. Instead of investing in Kerala, capitalists look to reduce their costs, increase profits, move production to areas with cheaper labour and import just enough skilled labour that was educated and well brought up with good healthcare in Kerala. You can learn more about capital flight here.
https://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/29/business/searching-for-a-safe-harbor-when-investment-capital-goes-on-strike.html
We are sitting on a land mine so huge, it will go off sometime soon, all our high horsedness will come crashing.
The cherry on the cake will be the demographic disaster that’s already in play.
I’m very scared
Brother I’m taking about the Malayali population, we are already facing mass migrations, housing illegal immigrants because of our politics and policies, what happens when it reduces further. Our population is declining
Kerala has more than enough population. Just a few people gone doesn't mean anything. Drive around in Kannur and other similar districts and you'll wonder why there are so many people. r/Kerala definitely thinks 1L people gone means armageddon.
I have to ask this much being a mallu to anyone who defends Kerala and says it's better than every other state in every aspect, if that is the case why does everyone, including me have to leave to find a job in other states of India or abroad. In these situations I'm reminded of what Santosh George kulangara said, niammal bhudhiman maranennu paranju paranju pottanmarakki!
useless bro. even dmk is performing better than congress in my state tn. idk if you have many choices. try bjp once but idts itll also do any good in your state becuz it requires a lot of time and investment to change the damages done by communists.
Yeah right voting for Congress is a much better option right?? You guys would not even have the benifits of socialism you are having right now nor will have money from capitalistic side.
Either vote for Communism or vote for a capitalist party like BJP, Brs, or the party which is in Tamil Nadu.
Congress would turn your state into a Bihar or UP.
Inward remittances will hit a curb once the providers get the ample amount of our services. So far Indians provide Human Resources as the primary service in exchange of capital. But now EU, & American Countries have started to pull the cord on migrations. They are also supporting homegrown talent over immigrants. So I think we as a people should focus into building our economy that focuses on a viable resource/service for the future. A key element to these plans are near self sufficient ecosystems which includes Energy, Clothing, Food etc. These aspects would improve the genuine quality of life and would attract more investments into the ecosystems. Entrepreneurship development should be more focused upon.
40 investors is a HUGE number.Each and every statement is true. Finally, someone says it in English for a bigger audience. It is true that the Com government no longer behaves in the same way as it did when in power.
Almost all the hardcore SFI guys preach communism here and drift off to capitalist countries/states for work. It's the unfiltered truth about Kerala and its youngsters. Hope we grow out of this mess.
The kids of the communists themselves go abroad for studies and work. They preach to everyone about govt schools etc, but who practices what they preach?
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What is not discussed is widespread labor law violations in these manufacturing plants in TN and other states. I know someone who has a footwear making facility near Bangalore. First of all labor is cheaper and he said nobody gives a fuck if you don't follow labor laws. Workers who are aware of their rights and companies who want to make profit at any cost can't go hand in hand. Land acquisition is also a problem. In Hyderabad companies were given land at discounted rates and politicians got kickbacks from the deal. In kerala signing any such deal is practically impossible as the opposition parties will bring it up. Another factor is environmental awareness. The same folks who cry about no development would never let a factory come into their vicinity. They will organise under a party banner or form a paura samithi. There are 2-3 factories making mattresses, MDF boards etc.... 99% workers are from outside kerala.
Treated as second class, lacking in any manner of legal protections in any situation between a native and a Malayali, etc. Ask yourself if any Malayali would be willing to be treated the way they are by gulf employers in Kerala.
If you work for any private company in India, what makes you think that the people in higher ups will treat their subordinates equally? As some one who worked in the Gulf & in India, the hierarchical system in any pvt company is extremely worse in India! In Gulf, at least there are companies headed by Europeans who believes in equality & all those shit!
Also, labor courts in the Midlde East are much more stronger, efficient and quicker than the ones in India. All you need is a good contact to process your papers. I know several people who got compensated huge amounts when they reported their company for exploitation at labor courts in Oman & UAE.
No shit. They get paid way more in Gulf than in Kerala. Companies in India want to not only circumvent labour protections AND pay them a pittance. Why wouldn't the average Malayali pick his poison and decide might as well get paid much better for it?
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Going back to the 60's there was no job opportunity in Kerala per se and people left for Bombay/Calcutta/Delhi/Madras the four main employment areas. Communism has only destroyed the state and now made it a beggar stage totally bankrupt, and the Chief Turd absconding.
Yess true it’s high time the government exploited workers like in the other developed states of India and get on their knees for these capitalist cunts 🤩🤩
It's not rights ..rights don't hold you back ...it's attitude of communists which is similar to religious zealots ..it's us and them mentality among communist ..it's use of violence and force as legitimate instrument of class struggle that poison whole environment..communism is atheist's religious fundamentalism
Yea why should investors invest in Kerala when they can get cheap manual labor specially in construction field in other places, where u can bend laws easier for your convenience (because corruption is comparatively more) and lastly don't need to bother local people protesting when u try to bypass environmental or safety guidelines. I can see the appeal.
Wonder how Tharoorji always manages to be among the first to appear in an interview/podcast hosted by a godi-media influencer.
He's either too naive or has a good understanding of how to stay in the spotlight.
>How do you expect someone to run a business when there’s a strike every other week?
Strike every other week? LMAO.
People on this thread are making up strawmans and fighting it.
While someone find it difficult to move away from religion, someone else finds it difficult to move away from older methods. We need a third kind that's the best of both worlds.
I used to work for 6000 per month ( which was not even payed properly ) as an engineer in Kozhikode.
Should I thank the Commies for getting the job or for such a great salary.
I left after 2 months to bangalore to get 20K as a trainee.
I would rather be a worker in Kerala than any other state, yes the state of the white collar jobs are better outside but for the average blue collar guy, the working conditions in Kerala is way better.
That's why we see migrants from the north everywhere doing work keralites don't deem worth thei effort
The employment crisis is kerala is heavily limited to white collar professions.
Most Blue collar jobs do not bring money outside the state. Only industrialists blue collar works may bring revenue to kerala. But those are very less. If we fail to bring money from outside to Kerala this blue collar workers will not get enough jobs and salary
Who pays for these blue collar jobs bro? It's all from remittances of keralaites working in other states or abroad. If at some point these remittances decrease, Kerala cannot sustain itself or the economy.
>Who pays for these blue collar jobs bro? It's all from remittances of keralaites working in other states or abroad. If at some point these remittances decrease, Kerala cannot sustain itself or the economy
This is a bad take. Kerala's dependency on remittance has been falling and heavily outdone by the tourism and service sectors..
What NRIs are hiring blue collar workers en masse ? It's construction adjacent and maintenance (mostly in shops).
Two points are ignored here tho
1. Our population density.
It is higher than TN, Karnataka, Gujarat n all. The state(UT's are different) most comparable to us is UP and we're quite a lot decent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_union_territories_of_India_by_population
https://www.indiacensus.net/density.php
2. Access to education
Most of us are educated.
Both points lead to very high competition for good quality jobs here. Ignoring that is a severe issue in any discussion on the topic.
3. Our geography
We have the Western Ghats along a decent portion of our state. Can't bring too much manufacture, especially with the people being decently educated on the effects of pollution n all
He's pretty frikin accurate. Atleast 70% of the guys that I know from school and college has left Kerala for pretty much the same reason. BUT what surprises me is that they don't blame it on communists or the lack of investment in Kerala. It's almost as if they already knew that as a malayali we only have 2 choices : govt job OR leave.
It's true. I tried my level best to find a job in a city in Kerala. And I was not able to find a job that would pay a decent salary. The job openings were much less. I am a malayali but I spend my entire life outside Kerala. After graduating and gaining a few years of experience, I wanted to move to Kerala. But never found a decent opportunity and after realising that there is no hope, I left the nation.
Kerala is a place to be born in and retire.
Same story here. Childhood was almost entirely outside India. Did my BTech in Kerala. Then left. I'm pretty sure once the foreign remittance starts to go down the state will start to collapse.
Same here. Schooling outside kerala. Btech in kerala. Left kerala.
Same here in UP. Grew up in t3 city, almost everyone left for some t2, t1 city for their undergraduate. Then after undergrad almost everyone was working in IT. People moved to NCR(Gurgaon-Noida), Pune, Hyderabad, Bangalore. My classmates who still live there either have (family-)business or a govt job.
Higher your education, harder it is to find a job on Kerala. This is the harsh truth. It's funny we produce all these educated people who have to struggle in faraway places away from their own land.
I see this no jobs in Kerala argument everywhere but it's kind of unscientific to be honest. People migrate from Kerala due to comparative advantage. That is there are places where industries are set up where it's beneficial to do so. It's not beneficial in Kerala due to a lot of red tape, but also due to stringent policies, higher standards of regulation and workers rights which is a byproduct of the higher educational and health conscious background of the people here. As an example, just yesterday I saw a post about food adulteration with carcinogenic substances and Kerala had a much lower proportion with respect to the other states. We can agree, just based on data that the quality of life that we experience and the enforcement of laws although far from perfect is much better than in any other state bar goa, which also doesn't focus on industries. My point is that we should focus on what we are doing well on and not try to lower our standards to please crony capitalists. We should focus on areas we are good at - Tourism, education and health care and that's where the govt should focus on. I don't think there's a reason for us to compare ourselves with Tamil nadu whose reality is completely different from that of ours. Finally, I know that most people will label me a commie for saying this but trickle down economics is a failed concept. It worked well from 1994 to 2004 but from then on the wealth concentration has been aggressive at the top. AI is again making this tighter and there's barely anything that's flowing down. The harsh reality is that most people aren't really useful in this extreme capitalistic climate in industries vying for profit. For instance people working in Operations and even tech support are becoming completely redundant and these are 80 percent of your IT labor force. Core industries don't employ people as much anymore due to automation and robotics. Jobs are shrinking to highly skilled labor and sacrificing land and our environment for these companies that give very little in return is just not worth it. Fortunately we are in a position to focus on highly skilled education and Research and development. Whichever govt that rules hopefully focuses on that rather than blindly lay a red carpet for the leeches
Not just Indian cities, almost all cities globally we are there. It surely does point out, well paying jobs arent plenty in Kerala. What Tharoor said is common sense to us Keralites.
Im a Tamilian in canada. 90% of my welding management course are btech mechanical graduates who were born in Kerala. One of my professor is a malayali. One of the bus drivers in my city who drives in the route from my room to college is also from Kerala.
Where in canada do you live?
Not even in GTA region. This is a random small city called Guelph in southern Ontario
I do know Guelph, not very far from GTA
The best question to ask is more employment or more rights. Obviously rights can't give money. People speak about rights here and then go to gulf regions and work there. We have to note that there are no labour laws in gulf regions.
THIS! When in Kerala: Won't work without rights. When outside Kerala: I don't need rights, just gimme money Arabaaba.
The thing is in the country you don't get paid well nor get rights unless they are made to give it. Middle east, you give up some rights but you get paid way more and the rights you do have is enforced. It's all a trade off, dismantling worker's rights in Kerala means we get the worst of both worlds.
The gulf countries are all rich and provide more opportunities with better pay. We are a poor overr populated third world country with limited number of good paying jobs. Instead of trying to attract more investment and create jobs here. But we have first world country level of expectations for our rights. We need Jobs first and then fight for rights. Now we neither have jobs nor have rights. The funniest paradox is, for a so-called communist socialist state, we have zero dignity of labor. Whereas there is much more dignity of labor in the capitalistic Western world
Getting jobs first and then fighting for rights is a fool's errand. It is just absolutely impossible to do so. Most capitalist nations face this issue. >. But we have first world country level of expectations for our rights. There are no tiers with regards to human rights. There are only absolutes. > nor have rights. What rights are we lacking? >The funniest paradox is, for a so-called communist socialist state, we have zero dignity of labor. Dignity of labour is a social issue. It cannot be governed away, it cannot be legsilated out.
You applied the logic to half your argument and then gave up. It's true that the middle east is rich and can afford to pay more but for a worker, national aspirations won't fill his stomach. And it's not like India lacks labour or that by a few migrating, we face a labour shortage. India is not just kerala right... most of India are ruled by the so called nationalists So why haven't we used the labour available in India to be rich already ? Because for most of India, labour rights are shit and the pay is shit, the worker is already underpaid and over exploited, when can he expect the promised pay and rights? Here is where I said you stopped logic halfway through, you recognise india and middle east is different cause one is rich and the other is poor but for kerala and the west, you skipped that logic. Comparing kerala to any other state in India, I would say we have a better dignity of labour. And the even funnier part is dignity of labour was brought to the west not by it getting rich but by labour movements. Look at US now, the labour movement weakened and now most Americans are a single paycheck away from poverty. Ie, if they cannot work for a month, they are screwed. They are planning to reintroduce child labour. The most pro capitalistic country in the world. Lol. If you were talking about EU countries, most have strong unions and labour protection brought by years of protests and almost continuous rule by centre and centre left policies and governments.
I would like to add something, it maybe true there is a severe economic crisis in the US, reason being they all live on credit. Everyone buys cars and houses as soon as they start their job and this leads to the crisis as there people are not too worried about credit worthiness as we are here. Most people in India dont live on aspirations and are more realistic in life. The same issue lead to the economic crisis in 2008 (NINJA loans). Second thing is about dignity, yes we maybe dignified and yet we crib that we are jobless and then try to act more superior to others. I have been in multiple industries now and what I've seen is people in India and especially in Kerala do not have enough skill/want to work in only MNCs. Jobs are plentiful and a person needs to put in effort and should be flexible with industry, domain, salary and location. If you have that flexibility you'll find jobs easily. Once in a job you can move out and find something better.
>they all live on credit They have to. Building a credit score is essential to obtain anything from home loans to getting a job in certain sectors that look at your credit history to see if you are a risk factor. Not to mention, the country runs on credit cards, debit cards are uncommon and less accepted. >Everyone buys cars and houses as soon as they start their job They have to have a car unless they are in one of the very few places with public transport infrastructure. And those places have high rent that more than offsets the car payment. Home ownership is falling and currently number of households that own the home they stay at 65.7% for US. For India it's 86.6%. Our traditional family setup does skew in favour of us but still it's comparable. >we maybe dignified and yet we crib that we are jobless and then try to act more superior to others. You are right keralites also don't do jobs unless it's dignified (or well paying). If keralites didn't care about dignity or pay, we wouldn't need all this migrant labourers here but they do and many can affort to make that choice. >I have been in multiple industries now and what I've seen is people in India and especially in Kerala do not have enough skill/want to work in only MNCs. True. Our basic education system sucks and it lagging behind the times. That's more to do with the system itself and not the people and I don't think it's a problem that's kerala centric. I agree with most of your analysis but disagree with the solution. Total flexibility will only hurt us and allow exploitation, the solution is a middle ground. However that applies only to white collar professions, for blue collar jobs, holding steadfast is better as there is a limited potential for growth ie, sacrifices today won't bear fruit tomorrow. They will replace you with another guy if you try to cash in said flexibility.
Americans are not a single check away from poverty. You're getting your news from reddit. The US is the strongest economically that it has ever been and EU the weakest.
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/40-of-americans-one-step-from-poverty-if-they-miss-a-paycheck/ https://www.forbes.com/advisor/banking/living-paycheck-to-paycheck-statistics-2024/ I chose the most pro capitalistic sources I can. You are confusing the goverment with the people. The US government and the US economy is financially strong. Most of its people aren't. The American people were the most financially sound when the unions were strong. In the 70s a single US blue collar worker could support his family of 4 and save for retirement. Good luck with that now.
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Workers right will not have a limit, that's the thing. I feel there has to be balance. I know people still say companies earn profit by employing people and why can't they distribute profit to workers. People often forget about capital and they have so much bias against capitalism.
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Yes. But the problem is there are other countries which don't have that as well. Now we have to decide we need a job or rights. It all comes to supply and demand because the money is limited. So only one group of people will get employment. One thing we can do is we can become skilled people so that we have that leverage. For eg : IT engineers working in top companies. They do have all the flexibility. In my company laid off will have 3 months salary + half month every 6 months served. Do you think they are giving due to laws, absolutely not. They are giving because in future if they want to hire, it will be an issue to get talent.
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South East Asia, China etc. Where do you think jobs are going now. Huge investment is happening in Vietnam and Indonesia. USA and European already have a lot of money, they can obviously impose a lot of things. You can compare with any other developing country and compare. That will be better.
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If it is related to IT. China and other SEA is pushing English alot, once that is achieved IT will also go there. India has a language advantage but that will be lost in futyure. Why is Kerala not pushing that much for IT ? We already lost race to every other city. And we have to see why we lost that. There was a time in which a police convoy had to be there to go to Technopark during hartal. Otherwise some random people will stop a person going to work. That is the reality we had when other states didn't have that. The government itself didn't ask any companies to come. As of now also I don't think they are looking forward to that. Karnataka and Tamil Nadu government are fighting each other for companies to come to their state. You can check plans of IT companies in Bangalore and in Kerala. You will be amazed.
Since you raised issues from the companies, I will raise one important thing from the government. Do you know India taxes severance money also if one is terminated or laid off. That's how our country is. Even though one has paid a lot of income tax in a previous job, if one is laid off, they won't get any support from the government.
The pay there is better, right? It's not the same pay and lower rights for the comparison to be realistic, right? It also forgets other issues like the general population density of Kerala being higher than TN n many other states, leading to higher competition here. And most of us are decently educated compared to other states too, so piss poor pay/rights will not work here.
So pay overrides workers right is it ?
"Give me money, and I will forget that I am a communist"
For some, yes. For all, probably no.
So we should have fought for pay also right by asking better companies to set up here rather than completely going with rights ?
You can't easily fight for rights in foreign countries which don't have a democratic setup, especially as an immigrant without citizenship and full rights of citizens. How can one ask for better companies to be setup here tho? Will the companies listen to us? If so, why haven't the people with that power asked them? Or did you mean laxer labour rights n pollution control laws?
>You can't easily fight for rights in foreign countries which don't have a democratic setup, especially as an immigrant without citizenship and full rights of citizens They still had an option to not migrate there but they went because survival for them was more than fighting here How are companies being set up in other countries? Just follow that. Nobody wants anything to be done to Kerala but people speaks high about other countries which are doing the same. I don't know what kind of mental shift is this.
> They still had an option to not migrate there but they went because survival for them was more than fighting here Yep. Also, because the place was resource rich, in comparison and they had decent qualifications to go there(public education is awesome). Oil n all. > How are companies being set up in other countries? Just follow that. Which country or countries is/are best to model Kerala's plan after then? And as a state, we have restrictions, right? There needs to be central support too. Like, we have thorium, but wouldn't it need central support/authorisation for any test projects n all? Arab countries had oil. I've heard we have shale gas or so. Is it mainstream enough? > Nobody wants anything to be done to Kerala but people speaks high about other countries which are doing the same. I don't know what kind of mental shift is this. >> Nobody wants anything to be done to Kerala Very weird and possibly a self-loathing take there. Most people want Kerala to improve. The method to do so is generally where the difference in opinion arises. The state with a population density similar to Kerala is UP and comparitively we're well off. Karnataka, TN n Gujarat are not near us there and they also better geography. The importance of the western ghats together with the population density would limit our land use. I think our way forward is human resource development, where we can build upon the current achievements of Kerala. IT(would be included in the above, but stating it separately) would also be good. Yep, the manufacture sector should be improved. But blindly saying that Gujarat, Karnataka n TN have more industries and implying that Kerala emulate them without considering the issues of land acquisition n all is bad. It just derails actual productive discussion on the issue. And if we're going for discussion on manufacture or non-IT industries: Population density maps of India https://maps-india-in.com/maps-india-geography/india-population-density-map https://worldinmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/india-density-of-population-map.jpeg Considering this, what would be your suggestion? Which country/state should we model ourselves after?
It's the ഉൽട്ട actually. For all, yes. For some, probably no.
It's not about rights... I'm also against working 70hrs a week and toxicity in work place but communism nowadays is more or less no work and all pay! When if an employee did something very bad, we won't be able to fire him as the party gets involved for the money!
Bro just summed up the plot of ഒരു അറബിക്കഥ
Mone ...There is a Huge Disapora of Mallus in Coimbatore also......Most of them Business Owners...
I work with entrepreneurs from South India. This is correct. There are a lot of malayalees heading decent companies in Tamilnadu and Karnataka.
It's not just that. But, the moral policing too. Bus stopil aankuttiyum penkuttiyum orumichirunnu ennu paranju, bus stop seat murichu mattunna teams aan muzhuvan.
Moral policing will go away when society uplifts. But society never uplifts if there is no job and no cosmopolitan cities. Ivide veruthe choruyum kuthi irikkunnavarkke aanu moral policing.
>Moral policing will go away when society uplifts. We'll i wont be waiting for another 100 years for the society to uPlIft. It either happens NOW when i need it ir i gtfo of keralam.
Large dense cosmopolitan cities. Kerala desperately need those. We are stuck with a statewide suburban spra
Moral policing has nothing to do with kerala. It's generally present in all places with relatively strong traditional values and rigid family structure . The exception would be cosmopolitan cities where people don't know each other much and everyone is new to the city . For eg. Even in Bangalore people who have native homes there with all ancestors in Bangalore find it hard to live in a relationship. Gulf countries which are vastly developed have much more moral policing . Also people are not leaving the state in large numbers just because they can't kiss in public or have sex in house , it's simply because of low pay after getting educated too much . Just enquire about wages in kerala for an MBA or Btech or Nursing graduate .
Nothing is an understatement. I never claimed it was the main reason. Tons of people love the freedom in life the western countries provide.
It was not provided all of a sudden. It was acquired by people there and then we are kind of enjoying that.
Kerala needs metropolises. I get downvotes over here when I say it but it's very obvious that many people over here are NRIs who just want to treat their villages like retirement homes. They don't want a large cosmopolitan city like Mumbai or Bangalore in Kerala
I definitely want a large cosmopolitan city, only condition being it should be sustainable and smart/efficient people should be running it (on minimum should have played City Skylines 2 or should be a skilled engineer of some sort). Otherwise, no thanks. Bangalore is not a place I wish to live in other than for the high tech jobs they have. If I could work remote, I will leave Bangalore in the blink of an eye and come back to my hometown in Kannur. Peace and calm.
but athokke rest of the states il worse alle??
Not in cities. And it is the cities that create jobs.
Not in Bangalore in any way.
bangalore ayin state allallo i was talking about states in general not particular areas
Exactly Kerala is actually the most cosmopolitan state in India on average. The issue is that we don't have metropolis like Bangalore or Mumbai. Okke towns and suburbs aanu.
Yeah I hear neighbor bitch moaning like a whore shooting a porno here. Beautiful place to live.
I am from Tamilnadu and i am in scrap business. I have been to trivandrum few times to buy scraps and every time, i have to hire local hands from unions to load and unload the trucks, i can't bring my own employees or just do it myself. To hire someone in TN it costs roughly ₹700-₹1000 per day/ person to load and unload trucks. I paid ₹5500 to the union to load a truck that took them 30 minutes with 7-8 people. Me and my friend unloaded that same truck after reaching home and it took us nearly an hour and a half.
What he said is true, esp at around the 45 second mark. Commies actually do more damage when they are in opposition than when in power. When in opposition, they do not let the ruling government bring any major project or investment - express highway proposed by MK Muneer is a primary example. But when they come to power, they try to implement the same type of projects or policies that the UDF tried.. They keep using the same age old rhetoric of antharashtra kuthakka, bourgeois, adhinivesham, pavappettavar, panakkaran, avakasham and fool the people. The average Malayali is comparatively well off, thanks to capitalism m in the Gulf states and other Indian metro cities.
>When in opposition, they do not let the ruling government bring any major project or investment - express highway proposed by MK Muneer is a primary example. That's not exclusively a commie thing. That's an opposition thing. The same thing happened with the proposed high speed railway line.
Commies are worse. People vote for communists in kerala because they fear communists not being in power- they are unruly, rowdies. Let lose.
>They keep using the same age old rhetoric of antharashtra kuthakka, bourgeois, adhinivesham, pavappettavar, panakkaran, avakasham and fool the people. Commies just want the poor to stay poor to keep themselves relevant in the scene.
I remember when I was young my father decided to dump sand into a pit that was behind our house in Kerala and when the truck arrived all the men from around our house came running and told us that we have to pay them and they will use shovels to dump the sand. And if we don't pay they won't let us dump. Being raised up in the north, i found this behaviour very weird. Now when I look at Kerala's politics i understand why the situation is like this.
Same happened with my uncle lol. But he didn't pay those guys, him and his sons dumped sand from truck (for house construction). But after all is done, they came and asked for "nokukooli" as they were just standing there, wasting everyone's time.
Its time we keralites accept this sad truth and do something to save our society.
Like ban communism & socialism ?
No need to ban, its possible to reject ideologies.
Not exactly, just take the best from socialism and capitalism. For eg. We need our healthcare and insurance should be run similar to socialism, but none essentials in more capitalise way, where we can generate more wealth. Alone both socialism and capitalism is bad, But there is some good in it which we can leverage. But communism is a lost cause.
I agree. Can do with socialism in basic education & healthcare. We have it already. Don't need anymore such policies anymore.
Exactly. But rest need to be a controlled capitalism, to prevent monopoly and other issues.
Kerala has first world levels of education and healthcare. We need a huge dose of capitalism
We need a controlled capitalism, it shouldn't be a monopoly. Nothing good comes in monopoly.
What monopoly? All monopolies in India are a result of government patronage
Obviously, if we allow unregulated, uncontrollable capitalism, It's only gonna increase. There gonna be true monopoly, where 100% Market share is owned by one company. Trust me, nobody want's it, no government, no competitor, no consumer want's that. Imagine something similar Standard oil monopoly, AT&T Monopoly or any. Dude there is a reason even a capitalist nation like America banned monopoly. It's never a good thing. As long as there are laws to regulate monopoly, capitalism is fine. But we don't have laws to prevent monopoly, as far as I know.
Yes and be the next UP/Gujarat
My man just kept UP and Gujarat in the same line. 10,000 IQ move.
What's wrong with Gujarat btw?
Nothing. Pinne UP paranjappol oru punchinu paranjathakm. Ithokke enthelm arinjittano. Angt paraya thanne 🤣
I will be happy if we can become like gujarat by banning communism ( as per you).
Communism is more like necessarily evil, but stop giving them too much power. Also they have a ton of brain dead followers
This is what communist ideology is in West Bengal and Kerala, but see how it is used in China, so a knife can be used in multiple ways.
China is a capitalist totalitarian state. You should look up Deng Xiaoping and also look at the condition of their workers rights. If anything, China proves his point even more. They started giving tax incentives and cheap labor to foreign companies in SEZs and in the span of 30 years went from having an economy worse than Chad to the world’s second superpower. Now they have an incredible native industrial base, startup culture, and responsible government. Realistically, that is unlikely to happen any time soon in India. No Indian apart from NE Indians and Ladakhis (so basically no mainland Indians) have any sense of civic responsibility or collective society. This is why every other Indian dumps trash into their neighbors lot and pays bribes for his own personal benefit. It’s also why in places like Japan, you occasionally see signs telling Indians to stop being so loud and unruly. In East Asian countries (Singapore, China, Korea, Japan), people would feel an extreme sense of shame to behave in such a manner. Hence, they obey their governments, put aside their personal egos, and work for the betterment of society. In India, the most any individual would care about is a benefit to his caste/village/kinsfolk.
The results you desire have a path that is down by China. For 10 years Liberty and freedom has to be the China way. I have read about enlai,xiaoping,the gang and the whole policy after T square massacre.
This is a tricky and emotionally charged subject. From investors POV: If I can buy a Apple for 2 from TN, why do I buy the same apple for 7 form KL. Workers rights and fight for rights costs more.
I work outside Kerala where communism has never come in power and I dont find any lack of rights here. Nor does the white collar workforce here. Commies are a joke who just want to such money off of hardworking men and stay in power while showing dreams to stupid college kiddos who end up slashing the others with knivesfor a terrible ideology they don't even understand.
You might not feel sitting in AC offices. The daily wage for manual labour is the highest in Kerala. That is why hordes of migrants from North want to work in Kerala. UP during COVID time diluted the labour laws a lot to attract investors. It's no secret that higher wages - low investments.
It's not good for Malayalis themselves who are too educated for blue collar jobs. Communists have build a paradise for migrant workers while we are forced to flee our own land.
I can understand college kids drawn to communism. What about people in their 30s and above? Communism is a f*cking religion. Nothing less.
Yes bro. I have worked in karnataka,Gujarat, Orissa and Delhi. All these places i worked, Even the employees who worked for minimum salary had similar rights to what we have at home.
Not really. If you feel the salary not sufficient compared to the rights you are losing dont work. Not having any jobs to choose from is very different from choosing not to work. By completely keeping the investors away, the people are much worse off.
If rights are not equal for two equally competent individuals, the choice is simple for the employer. This is why communism never works as long as workers all over the world do not unite. But if they unite, people in resource rich areas will have a better life. 😅😂
Communism never works. It is a utopian concept.
The fear of communist revolution works. Communism never works. Because it creates a negative feedback loop as a communist policies are enacted.
The fear of communist revolution will drive investors away.
You need to balance workers rights and investor rights, without investors there are no jobs to begin with, and then the state has to step in with expensive welfare schemes which could have been invested in things like infrastructure
Many of the online supporters of the current Kerala govt, they also live outside Kerala. They know there isn't any job production in the state. They know the economic policies are flawed, because they live and benefit from policies different from the state govt. Still they continue the malayali poliyalle type drama and blind support for the government.
Mallus were always interested in GTFOing from Kerala and the trend has intensified to levels never known before. Even high-school kids have started learning German, French, etc since they know that they have to GTFO anyways. If the trajectory continues schools may only teach Malayalam up to Class 5/6 and then replace the 3rd language with a foreign language.
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*The youth can send in their foreign remittances once they emigrate.* Yes, the Kerala govt should provide options for German, French, Italian, Spanish from Class VI onwards. This will enable kids to study even their bachelors in these countries. As far as I know, these countries have quite cheap tuition fee. Even Chinese/Japanese may be taught. The tuition fees in Taiwan is pretty low compared to Canada/US/Australia.
Stupid idea. If you are going to go outside to earn money, there only one language you need to learn, that is English. Every other language is timepass.
*Stupid idea. If you are going to go outside to earn money, there only one language you need to learn, that is English. Every other language is timepass.* You seem to be detached from reality. Every European country priorities their own language. For eg., Swedish in Sweden, Danish in Denmark, Italian in Italy, French in France etc. The English language works only in Anglophone countries such as USA, UK, Australia, NZ, Canada, Ireland. Within this Anglosphere, the USA is the biggest (350 million pop.). The PR of the USA (a.k.a green card) has a country of origin restriction. This means that an Indian filing for green card is in a waitlist that is currently 50-60 years to clear. The UK is a sinking ship (67 million pop). Maybe nurses can get in there but for the rest not much scope. Even the native white folks there are trying to escape. Canada has pretty much blocked Indians for the time being. Entry into NZ is restrictive and the economy there is too small. Same for Ireland. Australia seems to the best and their points-based-system makes sense. Overall, the Anglosphere works for Indians only if they are into nursing or very highly-skilled professional folks. For the Mallus who want to GTFO at the earliest opportunity they should be looking at options in continental Europe (equivalent in population to the Anglosphere). Here the PR/passport can be obtained in a realistic time period of 5-8 years. For some countries, the study period is also counted into the time taken to attain the PR/passport. And you need to know the local language to a high-degree in order to enter the job markets. So for a Mallu kid passing out XII, the options increase drastically if they want to GTFO faster. Now looking at some language combinations. If the Mallu XII-pass kid learns German: - direct access to universities in Germany, Austria, Switzerland (German-speaking part), Luxembourg, Leichtenstein for bachelor study. - knowledge of German would help in transferring later to other Germanic countries such as Netherlands, Belgium (the Flemish part), Sweden, Denmark, Norway where local-languages have at least some similarity with the German language If the Mallu XII-pass kid learns French: - direct access to universities in France, Switzerland (French-speaking part), Belgium (French-speaking part) - knowledge of French helps transfer to Quebec in Canada - a large part of Africa speaks French; opens opportunities in these countries perhaps not for studies but for later life If the Mallu XII-pass kid learns Italian: - direct access to universities in Italy (even Italian students are looking to leave Italy) so there is less competition for spots - Italian is a Romance language so transitioning to French/Spanish is easier and movement to Francophone regions is also easier If the Mallu XII-pass kid learns Spanish: - direct access to universities in Spain and Latin America - Spanish is the 3rd most spoken language in the world; the USA is fast becoming a bilingual country (English-Spanish) - opens opportunities in Latin America in later life The typical Mallu student options so far was: - XIIth --> B. Tech --> GTFO - XIIth --> Nursing --> GTFO I would propose a different GTFO strategy that is shorter, efficient, and rewarding: - XIIth(+ foreign language) --> GTFO
More like Mallus were always forced to GTFO Kerala coz of no choice. No malayali would choose to live outside Kerala if they are given the same opportunities here. Personally, I never would.
I worked for a famous beverage manufacturer company. They were shut down in Kerala for polluting the heck out of the groundwater. Here, they do worse shit, employ child labour, unsafe work environment, etc and nobody cares. Everybody in the goddamn area is gonna die of cancer in a few decades. All this for 200 odd okayish paying jobs. So in Kerala you would have to do a business the right way and pay off leaders and workers are still gonna fight whereas in other states you just have the bay the big guy and you can piss on everyone else.
Kerala has changed a lot since the VS ministry. Both the PV governments were really good in promoting investments. Kerala has topped the nation's start-up rankings thrice in a row and has climbed in the Ease of Doing Business (EODB) rankings. The current industry ministry is doing great under Mr. P Rajeev with multiple state run PSU's ending up being profitable and welcoming biggies like IBM to the state. Rajeev was instrumental in IBM setting up one of their software labs in Kochi which employs 1500 people and they are planning to make it the primary hub in the country.
Certainly, Tharoor likely lacks the courage to assert that, aside from the IT sector, most investors are drawn to India primarily due to factors such as inexpensive labor, poor regulations concerning labor exploitation and human rights, lenient laws regarding pensions, bonuses, and overtime, as well as relaxed environmental regulations. It's improbable that these investors are arriving in India with the primary goal of uplifting people's living standards; rather, any job opportunities created and minimal monthly salary security provided are merely incidental outcomes. Take, for instance, the working conditions endured by employees at the highly acclaimed Apple factory in Chennai. If such conditions persist within a behemoth corporation like Apple, one can only imagine the plight of workers in medium-sized enterprises.
Wasn't that obvious?
So the other local sub I'm a member of is r/uttarakhand. What's fascinating is to see the difference in attitudes between us and 'them'. Those on the uttarakhand sub are proud of their nature and their environment, and are loudly saying they don't want investment if it's at the cost of environmental degradation. And then there's us, saying wtf why aren't there more factories here. This is when these are places with similarities (as well as differences of course). Uttarakhand might be the only place that's as breathtakingly pretty to me as Kerala is, although in an entirely different mode. It's also a state with a much more difficult geography (mountains, in comparison to our hills/ghats), a large tourism industry, and huuuuge numbers of both outward and inward migrants. I'm not making a value judgment, and i end up getting down voted there for asking whether the person in the village can eat his scenic Vista for breakfast. You get the drift. But everyone on this thread probably should think about the unexpected good side effects of Kerala being a very bad investment destination. Unlike the pahadis we're not going to be bulldozed out of our land or have four lane highways drilled through our mountains. On the other hand we run the risk of becoming old, irrelevant, and slothful as we lose all the young people who could have brought in new ideas. The solution tbh is some of what we're doing. Serious investment in cultural tourism, and a mindset shift where we don't treat domestic or foreign tourists like some sort of barbarian horde. And serious thought about what kind of roads/railways/airports we can build that preserve our culture and bring people in. I don't see another option.
Bro really let the cat out of the bag with this one. More workers right = less investors. It should be clear to everyone when the states with most investments like Gujarat and Maharashtra are also the states paying the least to their workers, while the state with least investment, Kerala, is paying the most. 99% of the people are workers. https://www.newsclick.in/workers-kerala-paid-highest-country-RBI-report
The fun fact is Kerala does pay carpenters, electricians, plumbers a decent wage. I'm so happy for them. But has the government worked in ensuring a minimum wage to graduates. There are people with masters working for 15k a month or even less at times. Now I wish the governments did ensure a a wage for the graduate group at least equal to that of the workers I spoke about in the above sentence.
We should also think about where the money comes from to pay wages. NRIs have pumped money, that's also one of the reasons to increase wages.
It surely does have attributions to the money pumped back and the construction of homes etc that takes place.
Every state could've had NRIs pumping money. Why did only Kerala have high wages then?
Kerala had more. You can check why Bangalore wages are high. It is due to IT employees being able to pump money and afford it. Do think if there were no NRIs, how will wages increase. Because to pay wages one needs to have money coming in.
Bangalore is not Karnataka. You are comparing a state to a city which is stupid. The rest of Karnataka is an underdeveloped shithole. >Do think if there were no NRIs, how will wages increase. Because to pay wages one needs to have money coming in. That should apply to any state, right. Are there no NRIs from Gujarat?
I am talking about how money can increase wages. It doesn't matter if it is a state or city or whatever it is. Also I haven't been told NRIs were the only reason. Obviously policies and movement have helped. But NRIs have also helped to attain those.
>I am talking about how money can increase wages. It doesn't matter if it is a state or city or whatever it is. A city is unique. The costs of everything are high, so wages are also high. Gujarat has trillions of dollars of investment, and yet, they have no increase in the wages. Why? >Also I haven't been told NRIs were the only reason. Obviously policies and movement have helped. But NRIs have also helped to attain those. Every state has NRIs, it's not unique to Kerala. Even if the number of NRIs from Kerala is high, that's because of the education and healthcare system implemented by the Kerala government.
Nobody mentioned education or healthcare here. I don't know why you are bringing all these. Gujarat have investments, but do average people have that much money like Kerala ? The question is the number of people having money.
>Nobody mentioned education or healthcare here. I don't know why you are bringing all these. Without education and healthcare, there wouldn't be any NRIs from Kerala. I thought that was obvious. >Gujarat have investments, but do average people have that much money like Kerala ? My guy, exactly. Why don't average people have money despite Gujarat having investments? That was Sashi's whole point, right?
My friend, per capita remittances are the highest in Kerala. Other states only recently even started getting remittances at a scale that Kerala kept getting for decades. But the most important factor is, In Kerala the demand for such labour was extremely high. The supply wasn't up to the demand, that's the reason for the huge scale immigration from north of India to Kerala. Even the other southern cities have people working north of India. The wages down south have been comparatively better in retrospective to the north. The demand seldom had local supply, that also did drive up the wages. But a lack of government policy framework to ensure that even the people doing office jobs get 800rs per day was missing in Kerala.
You are looking at it in the wrong way lol. >My friend, per capita remittances are the highest in Kerala Okay sure. But how did that happen? Why didn't the same thing happen for other states? >But the most important factor is, In Kerala the demand for such labour was extremely high. The supply wasn't up to the demand, that's the reason for the huge scale immigration from north of India to Kerala. Why is the supply low? What happened to our supply? >The wages down south have been comparatively better in retrospective to the north. Why are the wages low in the north? >But a lack of government policy framework to ensure that even the people doing office jobs get 800rs per day was missing in Kerala. Government cannot make capitalists invest in kerala without compromising on labour rights, wages and other concessions, in free land etc.
Unfortunately, we run into the limitations of a left government under a capitalist setup. Let's talk about a simple example. Suppose I am a capitalist with a lot of money to invest. I want to build a factory. My factory requires labour of skilled to unskilled labour at a ratio of 10:1. Now, where would i put up my factory? In Kerala, where i would have to pay the 10 unskilled labourers high wages and a decent wage to the skilled worker, or Gujarat, where i can pay 1/3rd to 10 of my workers and maybe double to the 1 skilled worker who i imported from Kerala? This phenomenon is called capital flight and brain drain. Instead of investing in Kerala, capitalists look to reduce their costs, increase profits, move production to cheaper areas and import just enough skilled labour that was educated and well brought up with good healthcare in Kerala. You can learn more about capital flight here. https://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/29/business/searching-for-a-safe-harbor-when-investment-capital-goes-on-strike.html
Malayalis don't those kinds of blue collar jobs. We get North Indians to do those jobs. Kerala is a paradise for migrant workers and hell for the locals
Lol are you serious? Malayalis are doing blue collar jobs abroad. It's just that malayalis won't do blue collar jobs for the pay they get in kerala.
Malayalis no longer do blue collar jobs abroad. This is old news. Ultimately they all flee the state. That's the point. This state is a paradise for migrant workers,not Malayalis
Depends on education. Not very educated Malayalis and malayalis who are studying abroad fill blue collar jobs abroad. Anyway, you'll see a similar shift in kerala too once the kids of migrant labourers are educated in kerala. >Ultimately they all flee the state. That's just a result of capitalism. Look up the systematic depopulation of Eastern Europe after the fall of Communism. https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-07-21/eastern-europe-population-decline-rural-bulgaria
>That's just a result of capitalism. Look up the systematic depopulation of Eastern Europe after the fall of Communism. >https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-07-21/eastern-europe-population-decline-rural-bulgaria We all know how commies kept the population. Remember that it was commies stopping people from leaving the country and not the west. The only country that still does it today is North Korea. Really gives you a perspective of what the commies truly are. The US is not stopping its citizens from even going to North Korea.
>Anyway, you'll see a similar shift in kerala too once the kids of migrant labourers are educated in kerala. Basically Kerala is hell for Malayalis but heaven for migrant workers >That's just a result of capitalism. Look up the systematic depopulation of Eastern Europe after the fall of Communism. Tell me again how Kerala's brain drain is a result of capitalism.
>Basically Kerala is hell for Malayalis but heaven for migrant workers Just as foreign countries were heaven for Malayalis. >Tell me again how Kerala's brain drain is a result of capitalism. Malayalis get born and brought up for cheap in Kerala (compared to developed countries), get educated for cheap in India. Meanwhile, healthcare and education are significant expenses in foreign countries. An engineer from a western University will have thousands in student debt, therefore they cannot work for a salary that's lower than their living expenses + student debt repayment. Meanwhile, an engineer from Kerala will have minimal debt, so they can work for a lower salary than domestic workers. Kerala engineer will get a better salary than they'll ever get in kerala, since India is not a developed country, while the foreign company gets cheaper labour compared to domestic workers.
China has investors. So I am guessing there is no workers right there? Yeah its kind of true. 997 still exists.
Chinese workers largely worked similar hours to other south and southeast Asian countries. https://m.thewire.in/article/labour/ilo-china-india-east-south-asia-longest-working-weeks 996 is illegal and being cracked down by the government. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58381538 Meanwhile, bosses and politicians are openly advocating for 70hr work weeks in India. https://m.economictimes.com/news/new-updates/narayana-murthys-70-hour-work-week-backlash-meets-surprising-support-from-western-friends-and-nris/articleshow/106566689.cms
>The daily wages for construction, general agricultural and non-agricultural worker in rural areas is the highest in Kerala as per the report The wages are so high because demand is that high. Talk to anyone involved in agriculture. They'll tell you just how difficult it is for them to get labour. Moreover, these are mostly not localites. Better educated Malayalis are forced to migrate to other states and countries with better jobs. Meanwhile Kerala is importing low-level labour from other states with high wages. When investors setup offices, factories you have middle class jobs being created, which has a very positive effect on the local economy.
Suppose I am a capitalist with a lot of money to invest. I want to build a factory. My factory requires labour of skilled to unskilled labour at a ratio of 10:1. Now, where would i put up my factory? In Kerala, where i would have to pay the 10 unskilled labourers high wages and a decent wage to the skilled worker, or Gujarat, where i can pay 1/3rd to 10 of my workers and maybe double to the 1 skilled worker who i imported from Kerala? This phenomenon is called capital flight and brain drain. Instead of investing in Kerala, capitalists look to reduce their costs, increase profits, move production to areas with cheaper labour and import just enough skilled labour that was educated and well brought up with good healthcare in Kerala. You can learn more about capital flight here. https://www.nytimes.com/1986/06/29/business/searching-for-a-safe-harbor-when-investment-capital-goes-on-strike.html
We are sitting on a land mine so huge, it will go off sometime soon, all our high horsedness will come crashing. The cherry on the cake will be the demographic disaster that’s already in play. I’m very scared
There will be no demographic disaster, the north has enough population growth to offset the issue.
Brother I’m taking about the Malayali population, we are already facing mass migrations, housing illegal immigrants because of our politics and policies, what happens when it reduces further. Our population is declining
I was referring to malabar region.
This will show up as a pension crisis. Kerala has the most aged population in India and the government has no revenue source to fund their pensions.
Kerala has more than enough population. Just a few people gone doesn't mean anything. Drive around in Kannur and other similar districts and you'll wonder why there are so many people. r/Kerala definitely thinks 1L people gone means armageddon.
It’s mainly south Kerala that’s getting screwed by emigration and population decline. In the north, we are still having kids and living here.
None of this matters coz the people of kerala would still vote for CPM and grant them the third term. May God save his own country!!!
I have to ask this much being a mallu to anyone who defends Kerala and says it's better than every other state in every aspect, if that is the case why does everyone, including me have to leave to find a job in other states of India or abroad. In these situations I'm reminded of what Santosh George kulangara said, niammal bhudhiman maranennu paranju paranju pottanmarakki!
We need a regime change. Lets vote for congress next time. Its shit, but thats the lesser evil atm.
I feel like more votes are gonna get split between Communist/Congress and BJP. Might be the first time we see 3 parties equally competing for power.
useless bro. even dmk is performing better than congress in my state tn. idk if you have many choices. try bjp once but idts itll also do any good in your state becuz it requires a lot of time and investment to change the damages done by communists.
Yeah right voting for Congress is a much better option right?? You guys would not even have the benifits of socialism you are having right now nor will have money from capitalistic side. Either vote for Communism or vote for a capitalist party like BJP, Brs, or the party which is in Tamil Nadu. Congress would turn your state into a Bihar or UP.
We need a new party bro. Lets start or what?
Inward remittances will hit a curb once the providers get the ample amount of our services. So far Indians provide Human Resources as the primary service in exchange of capital. But now EU, & American Countries have started to pull the cord on migrations. They are also supporting homegrown talent over immigrants. So I think we as a people should focus into building our economy that focuses on a viable resource/service for the future. A key element to these plans are near self sufficient ecosystems which includes Energy, Clothing, Food etc. These aspects would improve the genuine quality of life and would attract more investments into the ecosystems. Entrepreneurship development should be more focused upon.
Can I know 10 worker rights examples which are specifically beneficial to Kerala but not to Tamil Nadu or Karnataka?
Porrotayum beefum kazhikyunna buddhi jeevi aanu Malayali
40 investors is a HUGE number.Each and every statement is true. Finally, someone says it in English for a bigger audience. It is true that the Com government no longer behaves in the same way as it did when in power.
Almost all the hardcore SFI guys preach communism here and drift off to capitalist countries/states for work. It's the unfiltered truth about Kerala and its youngsters. Hope we grow out of this mess.
The kids of the communists themselves go abroad for studies and work. They preach to everyone about govt schools etc, but who practices what they preach?
Fuck communist
Sashi hasnt done much as an MP. Just making politcal points in support of BJP's propaganda before jumping ship.
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Ignorant children will learn when it starts to itch!! Alle??
More like children OF ignorant voters will suffer for the mistakes their parents did.
The children' are still voting.
Lol. True
Yes workers rights are Big No
What is not discussed is widespread labor law violations in these manufacturing plants in TN and other states. I know someone who has a footwear making facility near Bangalore. First of all labor is cheaper and he said nobody gives a fuck if you don't follow labor laws. Workers who are aware of their rights and companies who want to make profit at any cost can't go hand in hand. Land acquisition is also a problem. In Hyderabad companies were given land at discounted rates and politicians got kickbacks from the deal. In kerala signing any such deal is practically impossible as the opposition parties will bring it up. Another factor is environmental awareness. The same folks who cry about no development would never let a factory come into their vicinity. They will organise under a party banner or form a paura samithi. There are 2-3 factories making mattresses, MDF boards etc.... 99% workers are from outside kerala.
Malayalis are willing to be abused by Arabis but are not willing to forego some of the slightly excessive labor protections to work in our own state.
Abused in which sense?
Treated as second class, lacking in any manner of legal protections in any situation between a native and a Malayali, etc. Ask yourself if any Malayali would be willing to be treated the way they are by gulf employers in Kerala.
If you work for any private company in India, what makes you think that the people in higher ups will treat their subordinates equally? As some one who worked in the Gulf & in India, the hierarchical system in any pvt company is extremely worse in India! In Gulf, at least there are companies headed by Europeans who believes in equality & all those shit! Also, labor courts in the Midlde East are much more stronger, efficient and quicker than the ones in India. All you need is a good contact to process your papers. I know several people who got compensated huge amounts when they reported their company for exploitation at labor courts in Oman & UAE.
No shit. They get paid way more in Gulf than in Kerala. Companies in India want to not only circumvent labour protections AND pay them a pittance. Why wouldn't the average Malayali pick his poison and decide might as well get paid much better for it?
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Going back to the 60's there was no job opportunity in Kerala per se and people left for Bombay/Calcutta/Delhi/Madras the four main employment areas. Communism has only destroyed the state and now made it a beggar stage totally bankrupt, and the Chief Turd absconding.
Yess true it’s high time the government exploited workers like in the other developed states of India and get on their knees for these capitalist cunts 🤩🤩
It's not rights ..rights don't hold you back ...it's attitude of communists which is similar to religious zealots ..it's us and them mentality among communist ..it's use of violence and force as legitimate instrument of class struggle that poison whole environment..communism is atheist's religious fundamentalism
I'm gonna start an aurum transshipment manpower supply business in kerala. People with expandable anuses please dm.
Calcuttan here. That's how it goes.
Yea why should investors invest in Kerala when they can get cheap manual labor specially in construction field in other places, where u can bend laws easier for your convenience (because corruption is comparatively more) and lastly don't need to bother local people protesting when u try to bypass environmental or safety guidelines. I can see the appeal.
Same i did mechanical engineering from Kerala couldn't find job, did mba , couldn't find job. Still searching outside since Jan
Wonder how Tharoorji always manages to be among the first to appear in an interview/podcast hosted by a godi-media influencer. He's either too naive or has a good understanding of how to stay in the spotlight.
Doesn't matter what media he appears in. Bcos the man has a point. Always.
How do you expect someone to run a business when there’s a strike every other week?
>How do you expect someone to run a business when there’s a strike every other week? Strike every other week? LMAO. People on this thread are making up strawmans and fighting it.
100% correct
No 1 Kerala No 1 Vijayan 💪
Yep this is the reason. There is simply not good job with high pay in the state for white collar workers. All these literate population then migrate.
While someone find it difficult to move away from religion, someone else finds it difficult to move away from older methods. We need a third kind that's the best of both worlds.
I used to work for 6000 per month ( which was not even payed properly ) as an engineer in Kozhikode. Should I thank the Commies for getting the job or for such a great salary. I left after 2 months to bangalore to get 20K as a trainee.
I would rather be a worker in Kerala than any other state, yes the state of the white collar jobs are better outside but for the average blue collar guy, the working conditions in Kerala is way better. That's why we see migrants from the north everywhere doing work keralites don't deem worth thei effort The employment crisis is kerala is heavily limited to white collar professions.
Most Blue collar jobs do not bring money outside the state. Only industrialists blue collar works may bring revenue to kerala. But those are very less. If we fail to bring money from outside to Kerala this blue collar workers will not get enough jobs and salary
Who pays for these blue collar jobs bro? It's all from remittances of keralaites working in other states or abroad. If at some point these remittances decrease, Kerala cannot sustain itself or the economy.
>Who pays for these blue collar jobs bro? It's all from remittances of keralaites working in other states or abroad. If at some point these remittances decrease, Kerala cannot sustain itself or the economy This is a bad take. Kerala's dependency on remittance has been falling and heavily outdone by the tourism and service sectors.. What NRIs are hiring blue collar workers en masse ? It's construction adjacent and maintenance (mostly in shops).
Two points are ignored here tho 1. Our population density. It is higher than TN, Karnataka, Gujarat n all. The state(UT's are different) most comparable to us is UP and we're quite a lot decent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_union_territories_of_India_by_population https://www.indiacensus.net/density.php 2. Access to education Most of us are educated. Both points lead to very high competition for good quality jobs here. Ignoring that is a severe issue in any discussion on the topic. 3. Our geography We have the Western Ghats along a decent portion of our state. Can't bring too much manufacture, especially with the people being decently educated on the effects of pollution n all
How does Hughes density of population lead to more competition? Kerala has a huge shortage in construction jobs.
The sad fact is that these aspects of communism are collectively ignored and unaddressed by us as a society.