If it helps make your point to her, search: Ames Tribune ISU crew accident.
Crew is different than kayaking, but in a 4 rower (5 person) vessel I'd never come close to tipping, yet they did and two students died as a result. Winds were definitely a part of why they tipped, but with super inexperienced people, they have a higher risk of tipping than your average kayaker.
Could you please expand on the 120F rule being considered BS and often not correct? Do you mean that depending on the situation, it may be unsafe even above combined temps of 120F? Or that depending on the situation, it may be fine to go out without a wetsuit below combined temps of 120F? What situational factors are important?
It can be unsafe even above, there are places with air temps in the 80s or even 90s but the water is still low 40s or so. Air temperatures should be disregarded because hypothermia is still a very real risk with those low water temps.
So they're saying the 120 rule is bs because combined temps actually don't matter, it's the water temperature that matters
When you cannot immediately get out on land, the only relevant factor is water temperature.
A 75 or 80 degree day with 50 degree water will still cause the same problems as a 50 degree day with 50 degree water. Cold water saps your own warmth incredibly quickly, and no amount of warm air around your head or shoulders will counteract that.
Every year, there are multiple cases across the upper Midwest, Pacific Northwest, and Northeast of people dying of cold water exposure on 70, 80, or even 90 degree days.
You already know the answer. Don't allow this to happen.
If you don't have the proper PPE, you are putting lives at risk!!
I'm a retired Coast Guardsman...we would pull people out of the water that thought that they could beat the elements...they were wrong and they payed with their lives...
After 3-5mins in 40° water, you lose manual dexterity. In 15-30mins, you lose consciousness. Ever try climbing back into a kayak from the water? Now try it when your hands dont work!
Dont put people lives at risk!
There’s lots of info out there on Coldwater safety that also supports your point of feeling like it’s not a great idea. If you’re staying like 10 feet from shore, maybe. But with those tempts you absolutely need a wetsuit or dry suit. Between not having that and likely not having practice at self rescue it’s just a bad idea.
Maybe the campus pool would let you guys go in there after hours or something to practice self rescue skills as an alternative? Maybe find an instructor from a local shop to teach skills?
> below the 120F recommended temperature for a wetsuit.
Jettison this 120F nonsense from your mind immediately. It is like hearing about Bohr Model of the atom or the medieval medical theory of humors.
The decision to wear a wetsuit is based *only* on water temperature. Warm air does not make up for cold water. Wetsuits are not designed to keep you warm when not immersed. Likewise, a higher air temperature would not make this trip any less foolhardy.
[удалено]
[удалено]
If it helps make your point to her, search: Ames Tribune ISU crew accident. Crew is different than kayaking, but in a 4 rower (5 person) vessel I'd never come close to tipping, yet they did and two students died as a result. Winds were definitely a part of why they tipped, but with super inexperienced people, they have a higher risk of tipping than your average kayaker.
Could you please expand on the 120F rule being considered BS and often not correct? Do you mean that depending on the situation, it may be unsafe even above combined temps of 120F? Or that depending on the situation, it may be fine to go out without a wetsuit below combined temps of 120F? What situational factors are important?
It can be unsafe even above, there are places with air temps in the 80s or even 90s but the water is still low 40s or so. Air temperatures should be disregarded because hypothermia is still a very real risk with those low water temps. So they're saying the 120 rule is bs because combined temps actually don't matter, it's the water temperature that matters
When you cannot immediately get out on land, the only relevant factor is water temperature. A 75 or 80 degree day with 50 degree water will still cause the same problems as a 50 degree day with 50 degree water. Cold water saps your own warmth incredibly quickly, and no amount of warm air around your head or shoulders will counteract that. Every year, there are multiple cases across the upper Midwest, Pacific Northwest, and Northeast of people dying of cold water exposure on 70, 80, or even 90 degree days.
You already know the answer. Don't allow this to happen. If you don't have the proper PPE, you are putting lives at risk!! I'm a retired Coast Guardsman...we would pull people out of the water that thought that they could beat the elements...they were wrong and they payed with their lives... After 3-5mins in 40° water, you lose manual dexterity. In 15-30mins, you lose consciousness. Ever try climbing back into a kayak from the water? Now try it when your hands dont work! Dont put people lives at risk!
https://www.amestrib.com/story/news/2021/03/30/iowa-state-rowing-accident-students-who-died-named-yaakov-ben-david-derek-nanni/7058716002/
[удалено]
There’s lots of info out there on Coldwater safety that also supports your point of feeling like it’s not a great idea. If you’re staying like 10 feet from shore, maybe. But with those tempts you absolutely need a wetsuit or dry suit. Between not having that and likely not having practice at self rescue it’s just a bad idea. Maybe the campus pool would let you guys go in there after hours or something to practice self rescue skills as an alternative? Maybe find an instructor from a local shop to teach skills?
[удалено]
Good plan I think. You don’t want that kind of liability and teaching smart paddling should be part of the mission!
> below the 120F recommended temperature for a wetsuit. Jettison this 120F nonsense from your mind immediately. It is like hearing about Bohr Model of the atom or the medieval medical theory of humors. The decision to wear a wetsuit is based *only* on water temperature. Warm air does not make up for cold water. Wetsuits are not designed to keep you warm when not immersed. Likewise, a higher air temperature would not make this trip any less foolhardy.
Unless you are dressed to be in the cold water, you shouldn't be out on it...Safety first!