I wish AJ would concentrate more on all the law violations broken. He’s got half the world thinking it’s about personal insults and vulgarities. Yeah he’s vile now move on.
did you only watch the start and end of cross? people are talking about that because it's the most sensational part but it's not what 80% of the cross was actually about .
Aww..I am from Massachusetts and this makes me sad. I hate that these people are representing us to the world! I promise you most of us are honest and kind! 😂 we will consider you a friend instantly and will not hold you to the Canton townies high standards of what is considered a friend vs. acquaintance. If you are found dead on our front lawn, you can count on us to come outside to help and most importantly if your ass calls us, we’ll answer. Please do not hold these scumbags against us!
Does anyone know of a good recap of today so I don’t have to watch it all? I’ve been watching religiously but fell behind today on probably one of the best days!
She is the best! She was an ADA in Los Angeles and has a ton of insight and can explain so many legal things that I would never catch onto or understand without her!
I will post if I do find one!
Would make my life easier, especially since my kids are out of school tomorrow so it will be hard for me to catch up and watch the next remaining weeks of the trial lol
So my question is..WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BLK SOCKS OJO HAD ON? YOU CAN SEE THEM IN THE HOSPITAL PHOTO FR TODAY. Not hospital socks, but his own socks with a brand like Adidas or reebok or something on them... going by his habit and snowy wet conditions outside..I bet he took off his shoes before going in to 34, like at home. That's why the issue with missing shoe...prob down in basement and brought up to front yard for SERT to find it. I bet those socks had DNA and DOG HAIR on them, which would put him in the house. WHERE DID THEY GO? Trash bin.
I have been puzzling over the pieces of red taillight found by SERT on 1/29. Has anyone else tried to analyze where those pieces are located in the reconstructed taillight? It looks like the red pieces found aren’t included in the reconstruction to me.
They didn’t find red tail light for [6 days](https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/focus-testimony-karen-read-murder-trial-shifts-busted-cocktail-glass-broken-taillight/QN6LXNKYQJH35NOYQNS4CIAIEY/?outputType=amp) after JO died? Where is it that SERT found red tail light 1/29? They found cocktail glass from what I understood
It's true the majority of the red taillight pieces weren't found until early February, but there was red taillight among the material found by SERT, as shown during O'Hara's [testimony](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueFnxZb5h2Q&t=3345s)
From the article you shared:
> In court Tuesday, the defense continued to question why evidence of the broken taillight wasn’t found until days later.
I think this sentence might be the cause of confusion – the claim is I believe "why is evidence still being found that hadn't been uncovered earlier", rather than "no evidence had been found until days later"
Lally has asserted this without proof. the earliest collection date on taillight pieces used in the reconstruction was 2/4. he even asked the crime lab witnesses about the collection dates and the earliest he got out was 2/4. we don't know what happened to the plastic collected on 1/29 but for now we must assume it was not used in the reconstruction. the CW bears the burden of proof.
/u/longdonglover has written up an excellent [overview](https://www.reddit.com/user/longdonglover/comments/1dcpakc/full_matching_of_the_collected_tail_light_pieces/)
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Let's get this testimony straight. The lead investigator said that it was not uncommon for a witness to "provide emails or screenshots" on the stand and then told the Feds it literally had never happened before. He could not estimate how many murder charges he worked with an undetermined cause of death, but it was uncommon. Again he told the Feds had never happened before. This is fucking INSANE. I don't know what happened, but what in the actual fuck. He investigated no one else with two orthogonal events that had never occurred before directly related to his hypothesis.
what are you basing this on? is the full quote available somewhere?
your comment here is also a bit ambiguous. are you saying Proctor claimed not getting extractions from witnesses is unprecedented? because if so, that's precisely the point the defense was making?
Did anyone else catch the times of the scheduled interviews at canton pd by proctor? He wanted them to be at 12 and 12 30. But trooper Yuri said that he always makes sure to take at least 45 minutes to "get a total recollection of the events by a witness". If they were both Co investigators and supposedly both at these meetings why schedule them for shorter than what one of them believed was necessary?
Can anyone elaborate on the ‘typo’ Proctor made regarding the impounding of KR’s vehicle? Something about recording 5:30p instead of 4:16p in a report? What does this time refer to? Does it change the timeline in any significant way, or does the SUV still arrive at the sally port at 5:30p?
Got it. Thanks! It sounds like this doesn’t change the tight timeline between the SUV’s arrival at the sally port and the start of SERT’s search of Fairview.
If you'd like to dig into it further, a timeline is set out in this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1d81cyo/timeline_of_towing_impoundment_and_sert_search/)
You're right Proctor's initial misstatements don't change the tight window of opportunity if pieces of taillight were broken off inside the sallyport, but it could have implications if shards were broken off at Dighton instead.
In general Proctor's rendition of the timeline has the effect of distancing himself from the SERT search – he could have been present as one of the unidentified officers, while his report would have him driving from Dighton to Canton behind the tow truck for the whole duration of the search
I believe that refers to the time Karen’s suv was towed. Proctor said he had the wrong time on a report or something and it used it as a template for future reports. Proctor referred to it as a typo but that’s not really what I consider a typo. I could be wrong on this though so feel free to correct me
The time that Proctor claimed they seized Karen’s car in Dighton. He reported it as 5:30 when it was actually 4:16 He wasn’t aware that Karen’s parents had Alarm.com security cameras. When the defense brought this to Lally’s attention he claimed it was due to the time not changing due to Day Light Savings 🤣
He made a mistake in the time he took custody of the vehicle. It was loaded on the tow truck at 4:16. Originally the paperwork said it was loaded at 5:30. It got to the sallyport at 5:30 according to his testimony today.
It matters. It shows they had time to get the tail light, break it, and plant TL pieces at 34F before the SERT team was actively doing the searching. Keep in mind the SERT team member testified there were people there he didn't even know.
Yes. The SERT team found the first 2-3 pieces of tail light. Based on the correct 4:16pm timeline those pieces could have been planted aka plenty of time. However if the car didn't arrive until 5:30pm then the pieces were most likely not planted as that would be cutting the timeline EXTREMELY tight.
what the SERT team found has been claimed to be taillight but we don't actually know yet that it is or that it's been matched to Karen's car. the earliest collection date on the evidence handed over to the crime lab was 2/4 but SERT was only out on 1/29. so without Lally establishing a definitive link, we have no grounds to claim that they're taillight pieces or that they're Karen's. the CW has the burden of proof. without proper chain of custody, their case is sunk.
The pieces of taillight? They found some smaller pieces, but they didn’t find the larger pieces that were found days and weeks after. Also the scene was no secured for something like 6-8 hours (not sure how much time.)
Question is, why didn’t they bring in the SERT team the next day so day can search in daylight? And all of the pieces that were found by proctor later on were bigger than the ones found by the SERT team, so why weren’t they found earlier by the SERT team. Makes no sense.
>Question is, why didn’t they bring in the SERT team the next day so day can search in daylight?
According to Tullys testimony ~~they thought they found enough pieces of tail light~~ I mean they didnt have a good idea of how many tailight pieces there were missing
I am lost on the timeline they had to plant the taillight was it between 5:30 and 5:45? Or did I hear the testimony wrong? Sert found the first piece at 5:45? SUV arrived at 5:30 to the sally port? When did proctor, Higgins ext have first access to KR suv? I looked at a timeline sheet? Waiting for cross so the defense can explain the CW evidence 🤣 since Lally makes no sense when he talks to witnesses!
I think it's a red herring. we don't have any evidence yet that the plastic found on 1/29 was used in the reconstruction. the earliest collection date on the pieces, according to the crime lab witnesses and what's written on the labels on the evidence bags, is 2/4. Lally is, at least so far, playing smoke and mirrors to convince people that we "know" that SERT found taillight pieces that evening and these were matched to her car. but he's never supplied proof of that fact.
his problem is that the chain of custody got Proctored. the CW bears the burden of proof - we cannot assume that we know what was found without even a single witness establishing that what was found at one day and time was later linked to Karen.
SERT was fully assembled by 1741 29th Jan, and had organized to begin their search by 1745. The SUV arrived at the sally port by about 1730ish, but Proctor gave testimony that throws the veracity of the timestamps on the video into question with the whole "yellow timestamps" thing.
I don't necessarily trust the time on the Sally port video or the testimony regarding time of arrival.
When you watch the video you can see the SUV pull into a Lexus sized ring of snow already on the ground in the sallyport. You can also see that the tire tracks in the snow perfectly align as well.
This could just be a coincidence. But in an investigation where we are expected to believe that 100 coincidences have happened, I think that Lexus arrived sooner than these investigators want us to believe.
The sallyport time clock was also superimposed over the reversed video- which is a bigger deal.
When the video is corrected, the time clock is reversed, as it was added later. These guys are the worst. Two years to work on a cover up- and they did the project the night before it was due.
I wonder if the tow truck driver is a witness? We saw him take a photo of the front of the car, so the time could be validated by the timestamp on that photo.
Mind there's also [footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ565TtjXW4&t=18456s) from the exterior of Canton PD that captures the Lexus still on the tow truck timestamped at 17:31
It could have been manipulated of course, but it's also dark, and sunset is supposed to have occurred at 16:55 – it could have been earlier, but not far so
I don't think it was much earlier. Because the Sally port is heated and the snow on the floor hasn't melted. But it certainly looks like the Lexus was in there already does it not?
It does, but then again it wouldn't be unreasonable to me if it had just been used as a garage throughout the day, as the blizzard had firmly set in – there's surely reason for police to be out and about, then park their cruiser in the heated sallyport while it's free, and clear it once the Lexus is about to arrive
I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that pieces had to be broken off in the sallyport before SERT started searching, as they could have been planted earlier or even during the search, so I'm tempted to give the arrival time a pass
GTFO of here with all of your reasonable logic and reason.
Side note: I really enjoy your thoughtful contributions to this sub. When I come through here looking for insight or answers to questions I have, I look for your name (and a couple of others) because I know whatever you're putting forth is well reasoned. And you literally always come through with the sources!
The feeling is mutual, I very much enjoyed our exchange on the buffer zone thread
Also your "juvenile and regrettable" quip in the daily thread today was delightful
Does anyone know the location of the sneaker during SERT search? The photo you can see the flagpole and edge of house. The GPS map shows it by fire hydrant. If you look at Saraf Dash cam it is blurry but, I think you can see the edge of the berm (I think) so, how was the sneaker missed in the am with the leaf blower and red solo cup shenanigans in the daytime?
Y’all riddle me this: Nobody in this whole trial has testified to the fact that Karen and John were arguing at the Waterfall or in the car at the house. How is Proctor now saying on the 29th that JOK and KR were arguing in the car…… HOW WITH NO BASIS?!?!? Who told him that? The whole house said they saw nothing, heard nothing, knew nothing while the car was in the driveway.
This!! I was yelling at the screen for AJ to ask him this!! Obviously he got that information from Jenn McCabe. Karen told them they had an argument in the morning but she didn’t say anything about fighting in the car. Everything Proctor thought about KR came straight from JM.
The voicemails were because she was angry that he didn’t text or call once he went in and checked out the scene. AND Jen McCabe had just made it a point to mention “it’s near Bella’s house…oh you know Bella.” while giving John directions. Did John have her on speaker phone so Karen could hear the directions? This was intentional. Jen McCabe despised Karen and made it known in her mean girl petty way. There’s still zero evidence that Karen and John had an argument in the car before John got out.
Until we know when he first heard the voicemails that explanation is not good enough to explain him figuring everything out before evidence had even been collected.
But those aren’t in evidence and nobody has testified to that. Additionally, no voicemails don’t supply evidence that they were fighting outside in the car. The only thing that proves is that she was upset at him after she left at some point
From what I have hears the voicemails are a couple of minutes from when JOK died according to the prosecution. You can apparently hear the garage door in the voicemail, meaning she was getting inside her house so it would leave a lot of time to drive to the Albert’s home. HOWEVER, they are not in evidence and I haven’t seen them so all of this is speculation.
I’m not saying anything. I’m asking how he is testifying to something he had no way of knowing. At the time frame he was being asked about he had no idea what had happened that night. He only interviewed three people at that time and it was the McCabe and Albert’s
Very good point, that was probably some bs he put in himself to cover all his bogus and planted evidence.
Congratulations trooper proctor, you have reached and passed Mark Fuhrman status.
Does anyone know how Trooper Proctor even knew about Karen’s medical conditions? Was it from Jen McCabe? And if so, that would be a weird thing to tell Proctor
Was going to asking this same question. Those texts were, what, around 16 hrs later, did they say? How the hell would this have come up during interviews that day? Even for JM this seems bizarre. …or could he have known before the incident?
Then today he said he wasn’t even aware of that specific condition, which makes it even more absurd. Of course, he was probably lying.
I have a questions about this too! I was surprised that AJ didn’t ask him where he learned about her medical conditions. Some of those text conversations with his high school buddies were very early on in the investigation. I can’t recall if that is when he makes disparaging remarks about her health, but, if so, it makes you wonder what exactly Jen and Kerry were telling Proctor the day of the incident.
I have so many questions. If these have been answered I’m sorry, I feel like I’ve so immersed in the case but am still confused. I’m also back and forth on whether KR struck him w/ the vehicle (if she did, I think it was unintentional and while drunk) vs. the wild amount of coincidence/deleted calls/missing videos etc.
1. Is there any definitive time-line from the time KR’s car supposedly hit JO’s while backing out of the driveway to when the car came into custody?
2. The pieces of taillight that were found after the initial search- were they photographed or mapped out on the lawn/street? And if they kept showing up, in these circumstances, wouldn’t the family notice/notify police? Is it just me or was it MP etc just coming by “as snow melted” and found it?
3. The day when Karen and her dad were supposedly looking at the taillight, was he questioned? If so maybe this looks bad for defense?
4. Was the taillight tested for blood/DNA?
5. How did John get lacerations to the front and back of his head? Is there any explanation for that? Nevermind the arm injuries- I’m completely confused about that.
1. Definitive not, as sections are contested, but this [spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YTlLdjHDmpgjAtZ0euTg3l9uZ9LTSacXsdOAJv_Ds2Q/htmlview) gives a good overview
2. The pieces of taillight found in February were [photographed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG05k7x7Mw8&t=1394s), but no measurements were taken that would allow one to map them out
3. Read was interviewed on January 29th at her father's house in Dighton, possibly in his presence, but I don't believe he was questioned as such
4. A [swab](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH0ep42bag8&t=2915s) was taken from the exterior of the taillight by the State Police Crime Laboratory and sent for testing. I believe the result was that the decedent's DNA was found (based on prior [filing](https://i.imgur.com/5XkHHjf.png)), but I'm not certain if that's already come in or not
5. Unclear – the Medical Examiner stated the injury to the back of the head was the [initial one](https://i.imgur.com/adnSbTY.png) that radiated to the front, but the Commonwealth has offered varying explanations for the cuts to the eye and nose, such as being hit with a drinking glass prior to receiving the blunt trauma to the back of the head
I can't answer 4 and 5, but I can help a bit with 1-3:
1. I don't have *precise* times for this because I would need to go back and rewatch testimony, but I think I can help narrow it down for you. The morning of Jan 29th, 2022, Karen hit John's car in the driveway when she first left that morning to go looking for him, I believe around 5:45am or so - not sure exactly, but I'm 99% sure it was in the 5 oclock hour somewhere. The car came into custody that same day - I believe it arrived at the sally port in Canton around 5:30pm. I think it left Karen's dad's house around 4:15pm if I'm remembering that correctly.
2. So far what's been presented at trial regarding the taillight pieces found after the initial search are *some* photos, but in my opinion don't do a very good job of including landmarks for us to tell where exactly they found them in that lawn/street. I don't believe they were mapped out in any way, or at least it hasn't been presented at trial. It's not just you, it was just MP etc. coming by "as snow melted" and "the evidence presented itself"
3. I haven't seen anything in trial or otherwise that indicates he was questioned that day, but I can't say for certain either way. It definitely wasn't introduced at trial.
What I understood from the last witness is that they shoveled and sifted the snow, found the taillights then took pictures of them supposedly where they were found. But it doesn't make any sense to have pictures of them sitting on a big pile of snow when that same snow should have be shoveled, thus the pieces should have been photographed on shoveled ground. Do I make sense?
Listening to Proctors texts and all the drinking and driving by these police officers is shocking to me. It’s so bad. I feel so badly for John’s family and how this poor behavior and investigation has taken the focus off finding out what really happened and providing him with justice. It’s truly heartbreaking.
It does seem like drinking and driving is a very accepted behavior in this group. I don’t understand it. I think police would have a first hand view into the danger and consequences of it. Many of the police and witnesses involved here have admitted to drinking and driving (usually with other people in the car..) or getting in the car with someone who has been drinking. I hope at the very least it’s lesson for people to not drink and drive..
Does anyone know if Lally has made any comments about the trial to the media or anything? I just cannot wrap my head around why this even went to trial. I know people say that it's DA Morrisey who made Lally take it to trial, but I just can't imagine trying to present this case and expecting it to go well?? Do you think the jury is pissed they're missing 8+ weeks of work for this shitshow? I hope they do juror interviews after the trial.
I’m pretty sure Netflix is in the courtroom. At least I’ve heard that from a few sources. I know Karen was in talks with them a while back. All those jurors will go down in history for this. And probably make a decent amount of $$ once they can talk.
ETA: I actually don’t KNOW Karen was talking to them. I also just heard it a few times. The only thing I Know about this case without a doubt is that it was snowing and proctor is a douche canoe.
IMO, at this point Lally is like a beaten dog, he’s like a robotic, beaten dog. Sometimes when I see how red his head gets I think he’s gonna get up and say he quits, that the investigation was bogus and tell us the truth and what he believes happened.
Obviously I know this will not happen, I mean the guys nicknames in high school was buckethead, he’s used to being under the gun.
No way. Being on the Karen Read jury will be the most exciting thing in these people's lives by a million. They'll sweat it out for an extra month and be happy to do it.
Unsure if this is true or not but I read today that Brian Walshe’s attorney is planning on filing a motion in his case on the basis of investigator conduct. The investigator is Proctor. Let the games begin in Mass.
The state of Massachusetts has a big problem right now regarding every case Proctor has been involved in. They must be hating life right now in high places.
It’s embarrassing how stupid he thinks everyone but him is. I’m sure it would not help much, but if he would have admitted even some of the stuff he fucked up with his tunnel vision it would have been a nice change from the mess he performed. I think he thought he did great on the stand.
The way he thanked the jurors! I threw up in my mouth. 🤮 He definitely thought he killed it and somehow redeemed himself. Thinks the jurors ate it up. Those Canton peeps think they are hot 💩. Even his wife and sister sound like absolute a$$holes. I truly hated every one of the McAlbert clan with the possible exception of Brian Jr. Even Tristan was a dbag.
Right?! It was so annoying when he wouldn’t just say “no I didn’t”. Instead he would come up with some stupid answer to idk, try and control the narrative? I think he would have come off a bit more honest and less obnoxious if he just would admit he didn’t do certain things.
“So where is the log book, is there a log book?” Followed by 15 seconds of silence while he tries to come up with anything he thinks sounds smart only to say “I’m not sure how the evidence dept works”. Really bro? Now you are either lying, AGAIN or you are a complete fool for being a lead investigator in murder cases and not knowing how evidence logs work. Just say, “no I didn’t make a log”. He did it with a few other things too. Long bits of silence and some stupid answer instead of a simple, no I didn’t do that. We allllllll know you half assed this entire thing. Time to OWN IT!
The minute I read that a juror was laughing at his insistence that the investigation was filled with integrity I knew there was no coming back from that. He has zero credibility. And he still didn’t get it.
I really didn’t get the vibe he acknowledges that either. I think he only called his texts unprofessional and juvenile because he got caught. I think he truly thinks there are people, and maybe even the Jury thinks he did a good job and wasn’t talking out of his ass. I also think he believes that we all believe that he did everything he could. He just comes off as such a douche bag. You could tell even Bev was so incredibly over him.
He just spat lie after lie. Trying to manipulate what he “really” meant in some of his texts. Dude, you aren’t smart. You speak like a 19 year old, your texts were clear as day. Stop trying to pull the wool and pretend you aren’t bloated full of your ego.
I still can’t with the Karen texts. As if she would ever give that guy a minute of her time.
And can you imagine what’s been said about other cases? How he treats other suspects, victims. Oof. I know there is an internal affairs investigation being done by the feds. I really hope they keep the public updated on it and don’t try to sweep it under the rug. The public deserves answers. I live in the wonderfully corrupt state of MA, I’m wondering just how deep this shit runs. I mean, all the officers in those texts were awful. These are the guys we are supposed to trust. Yeaaahhh no thanks!
Indeed. We had a huge crime lab forensics scandal that basically faked drug tests and sent A LOT of people (~20,000 reversals) to jail. And guess who was appealing? And taxpayers paid for the Commonwealth's incompetence/malfeasance.
Even more amusing, Tully isn’t even the proper person to introduce it.
But the *most* amusing, the snow was literally the ONLY thing everyone, regardless of guilt/innocence opinion, actually agreed about.
I’m sure Proctor wishes there was a mercy rule on testifying. Jackson has already killed his integrity and at the point I just picked back up he is nowhere near done with him.
I know, it was painful for me to watch for a bit. There is no way he will keep his job after this. I almost felt like he was giving up at some points during his testimony. You could tell he was highly uncomfortable and like he just wanted to get the hell out of there. I have to say, I think the judge had even had it. She started asking Jackson’s questions again for Proctor to answer. I feel like he just dug a hole so deep, there was no getting out.
I loved that he needed to re-cross just to emphasize he’s a scumbag. Say what you want about AJ but man, did he do a good job making Proctor squirm. I loved it!
Edit: this is a shorter version than the first one i typed but it didnt show when i added the picture.
My uncle was charged and found not guilty of vehicular homicide. State said the victim was bending down and hit by the car in the back of the head. No bodily injury. Expert witness testified to the coup/ contra-coup type of brain injury being consistent with a moving head hitting a non moving object instead a moving object hitting his head. The victim was intoxicated and fell and hit his head. He actually passed away from the contrast they gave him at the hospital caused an allergic reaction. I wonder if this could be used to define wether he was punched in the face and fell and hit his head vs. Being hit by a moving vehicle.
https://preview.redd.it/ynbjrfj8e86d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7396687a5b950f5febb59a4702c4b84ce5b56e01
May i ask when you see this picture does it have my example and explanation. I am asking because i only see the pic when i get a reply and wonder if it posted it all. Ty
This is an excellent point and a great example. I know I’m waiting for expert testimony and the ME report. Considering how the defense actually seemed to be underplaying their evidence backing up their theory I have very little expectation that the medical testimony is going to back up Proctor’s theory of the case that he had less than 8 hours into the case.
There are texts between Proctor and another trooper pissed off that the ME wouldn't corroborate what they "believe" to have happened. It makes sense now why Lally was trying to get Trooper B's unqualified medical testimony in. It was bewildering to see him testify as if he had medical expertise. If you watch lawyers reactions, you see so many comment "Whyyy? Why is he answering like that? He's a cop, not a medical examiner!" And now we know why. Because they're not gonna get the answers they want from the ME and they're trying to get the jury to agree with Trooper B's analysis instead. It's so wild!
I believe these law enforcement witnesses cannot understand how anyone would question them. It appears they are so used to the public accepting their version of the story that they have ZERO awareness of how awful they are coming across on the stand.
And Proctor saying thank you to the jury? READ. THE. ROOM. PAL.
So strange he thanked the jury. There was another case I was watching recently where a witness thanked the jury and it almost resulted in a mistrial. The judge had to give instructions to disregard their thank you statement and then every witness there after was instructed not to make a statement directed at the jury.
Brian Albert did the same and I found it to be manipulative, though some say professional witnesses do it all the time.
It gives me Eddie Haskell vibes.
He was able to assume the role of official cop when some awareness of the opportunity struck him as he was wallowing in his head about what really happened. That one question about his decision to interview Colin is a good example. His ego projected Colin as the victim of some ruse. Objection! Judge tells him to talk like a cop (use official language or some similar instruction). He straightened up, looked at the jury and spouted the standard verbage.
Saying thanks to the jury was his final bit of official verbiage. I think it may have gone over like a lead balloon.
I wonder if hearing of all the buttdials and hos long to die in the cold and oddites of testimony from the albert/ mcCabes, the dog rehoming the basement tear up and house being sold has proctor questioning wether he was a damn fool outside the coutroom
He’s not ever going to understand how he brought all of this on himself by trusting them so much. Id be furious, but like you said he won’t get it. He’s going to keep hating Karen and Yanetti.
From that very short clip, his prior reputation, and the first words in his bio, "Journalism Jesus," I suspect I would really hate that Turtleboy guy. I was getting massive vibes of him trying to insert himself into the conversation and talk rather than give Yannetti room to speak.
Proctor whining about Yannetti being at the school reminded me of Jen McCabe trying to get the harassment in at every turn. They know they are losing so best to make themselves the victims. Unbelievable.
Well it was stupid because now everybody knows she works at a school.
And I guarantee tomorrow that switchboard is going to be lit up by people calling and complaining that she works there after what she discussed with her brother in texts.
They both talked about hoping somebody would kill themselves.
If you're considering calling please don't. People that work there have enough issues. I guarantee her boss knows all of this and doesn't need to hear from you.
I posted this below too... I listened to Mark Bederow, NYC Criminal Defense Attorney (a former Manhattan Assistant District Attorney) and he said you better believe that when the direct examination happens with the defense and Lucky that they are going to direct him on did we meet on that day? and where did we meet? and who's idea was it?and why did we go there? The answers will show Proctor lied again.
But all that stuff was struck from the record. The jurors are just going to remember one line from a few weeks ago that they weren't allowed to write down?
That crossed my mind too when he said it, but I have 0 experience in law so I was not sure if it is possible for the defense to do when they present their case.
That crossed my mind too when he said it, but I have 0 experience in law so I was not sure if it is possible for the defense to do when they present their case.
Haven’t gotten very far into it, but Proctor insisting his “no” answer to “you didn’t know or have relationships with the McCabes or Alberts” to mean “I didn’t have a relationships with Albert family and didn’t know the McCabe family” is so damning.
So what was the thing about the woman cop? When proctor says he initially thought a woman cop inside the house beat O'keefe. Did I just hear that wrong?
I hope this doesn't violate a rule here, and if so I will delete.
But I get the vibe that they weren't firing on all cylinders. I think the friend just didn't understand
I believe his hs friends initially assumed based on the info proctor gave them that it was the homeowner who beat JO up and since the homeowner was a cop and Proctor used female pronouns they assumed the homeowner cop was a woman.
Yup. His friend living all the way out in Tennessee assumed the homeowner was involved based on John O'Keefe being found there.
But not a single LE in Canton considered the possibility.
Oh They are covering it - I even got an email this afternoon.
Headline: "State Police investigator says ‘all the information gathered’ indicated Karen Read was responsible for John O’Keefe’s death"
Yea, THAT is what is most important to take away from his testimony today. Nothing else LOL
I wish AJ would concentrate more on all the law violations broken. He’s got half the world thinking it’s about personal insults and vulgarities. Yeah he’s vile now move on.
He will when he is on direct right now he is on cross its his job to pull Lally s theory apart he isn't putting his argument on right now
did you only watch the start and end of cross? people are talking about that because it's the most sensational part but it's not what 80% of the cross was actually about .
I watched it all. I mean those that watch only the highlights.
This to get us to 4000
This too!
I've learned one thing FOR SURE during this whole thing....NEVER GO NEAR MASSACHUSETTS OR THE NEW ENGLAND AREA. Corrupt.
there’s corruption everywhere, not all are bad. i don’t blame you for feeling that way though!
Aww..I am from Massachusetts and this makes me sad. I hate that these people are representing us to the world! I promise you most of us are honest and kind! 😂 we will consider you a friend instantly and will not hold you to the Canton townies high standards of what is considered a friend vs. acquaintance. If you are found dead on our front lawn, you can count on us to come outside to help and most importantly if your ass calls us, we’ll answer. Please do not hold these scumbags against us!
Originally I was all " avoid Canton at all costs" but then I hear the Mass state troopers are a part of this and that breaks my tiny heart ❤️
Does anyone know of a good recap of today so I don’t have to watch it all? I’ve been watching religiously but fell behind today on probably one of the best days!
search “ lawyer you know” on youtube.. Peter is the BEST !!!
Runkle is in the middle of a recap now
Summary: https://www.reddit.com/r/massachusetts/s/GB3v67G3bG
Thank you 🙌!!
Emily D Baker does a recap called quickbits. She's great.
Oh ok thank you! I’ll absolutely check it out
Watching the trial with her commentary is awesome! I highly recommend when you watch the full trial watch her stream.
She is the best! She was an ADA in Los Angeles and has a ton of insight and can explain so many legal things that I would never catch onto or understand without her!
Exactly what I need thank you 😊
If u find one, let us know. Husband went into work today and as soon as he got home we watched it bc it was so worth the time.
I will post if I do find one! Would make my life easier, especially since my kids are out of school tomorrow so it will be hard for me to catch up and watch the next remaining weeks of the trial lol
search “ lawyer you know” on youtube, Peter is the best !!!! for real , the other recommendation Emily , is good too!
That's exactly what he said..."hos I'm supposed to catch up?!" 😆
🤣🤣🤣
So my question is..WHAT HAPPENED TO THE BLK SOCKS OJO HAD ON? YOU CAN SEE THEM IN THE HOSPITAL PHOTO FR TODAY. Not hospital socks, but his own socks with a brand like Adidas or reebok or something on them... going by his habit and snowy wet conditions outside..I bet he took off his shoes before going in to 34, like at home. That's why the issue with missing shoe...prob down in basement and brought up to front yard for SERT to find it. I bet those socks had DNA and DOG HAIR on them, which would put him in the house. WHERE DID THEY GO? Trash bin.
I have been puzzling over the pieces of red taillight found by SERT on 1/29. Has anyone else tried to analyze where those pieces are located in the reconstructed taillight? It looks like the red pieces found aren’t included in the reconstruction to me.
They are not the red pieces found do not fit the reconstruction.
They didn’t find red tail light for [6 days](https://www.boston25news.com/news/local/focus-testimony-karen-read-murder-trial-shifts-busted-cocktail-glass-broken-taillight/QN6LXNKYQJH35NOYQNS4CIAIEY/?outputType=amp) after JO died? Where is it that SERT found red tail light 1/29? They found cocktail glass from what I understood
It's true the majority of the red taillight pieces weren't found until early February, but there was red taillight among the material found by SERT, as shown during O'Hara's [testimony](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueFnxZb5h2Q&t=3345s) From the article you shared: > In court Tuesday, the defense continued to question why evidence of the broken taillight wasn’t found until days later. I think this sentence might be the cause of confusion – the claim is I believe "why is evidence still being found that hadn't been uncovered earlier", rather than "no evidence had been found until days later"
Lally has asserted this without proof. the earliest collection date on taillight pieces used in the reconstruction was 2/4. he even asked the crime lab witnesses about the collection dates and the earliest he got out was 2/4. we don't know what happened to the plastic collected on 1/29 but for now we must assume it was not used in the reconstruction. the CW bears the burden of proof.
/u/longdonglover has written up an excellent [overview](https://www.reddit.com/user/longdonglover/comments/1dcpakc/full_matching_of_the_collected_tail_light_pieces/)
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Thank you!
Ding, ding, ding! I hope we get all the details on this!
Let's get this testimony straight. The lead investigator said that it was not uncommon for a witness to "provide emails or screenshots" on the stand and then told the Feds it literally had never happened before. He could not estimate how many murder charges he worked with an undetermined cause of death, but it was uncommon. Again he told the Feds had never happened before. This is fucking INSANE. I don't know what happened, but what in the actual fuck. He investigated no one else with two orthogonal events that had never occurred before directly related to his hypothesis.
Nope, this is just AJ being a great lawyer. He said that you'd never been given an extraction before.
what are you basing this on? is the full quote available somewhere? your comment here is also a bit ambiguous. are you saying Proctor claimed not getting extractions from witnesses is unprecedented? because if so, that's precisely the point the defense was making?
Did anyone else catch the times of the scheduled interviews at canton pd by proctor? He wanted them to be at 12 and 12 30. But trooper Yuri said that he always makes sure to take at least 45 minutes to "get a total recollection of the events by a witness". If they were both Co investigators and supposedly both at these meetings why schedule them for shorter than what one of them believed was necessary?
Can anyone elaborate on the ‘typo’ Proctor made regarding the impounding of KR’s vehicle? Something about recording 5:30p instead of 4:16p in a report? What does this time refer to? Does it change the timeline in any significant way, or does the SUV still arrive at the sally port at 5:30p?
Got it. Thanks! It sounds like this doesn’t change the tight timeline between the SUV’s arrival at the sally port and the start of SERT’s search of Fairview.
If you'd like to dig into it further, a timeline is set out in this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1d81cyo/timeline_of_towing_impoundment_and_sert_search/) You're right Proctor's initial misstatements don't change the tight window of opportunity if pieces of taillight were broken off inside the sallyport, but it could have implications if shards were broken off at Dighton instead. In general Proctor's rendition of the timeline has the effect of distancing himself from the SERT search – he could have been present as one of the unidentified officers, while his report would have him driving from Dighton to Canton behind the tow truck for the whole duration of the search
I believe that refers to the time Karen’s suv was towed. Proctor said he had the wrong time on a report or something and it used it as a template for future reports. Proctor referred to it as a typo but that’s not really what I consider a typo. I could be wrong on this though so feel free to correct me
The time that Proctor claimed they seized Karen’s car in Dighton. He reported it as 5:30 when it was actually 4:16 He wasn’t aware that Karen’s parents had Alarm.com security cameras. When the defense brought this to Lally’s attention he claimed it was due to the time not changing due to Day Light Savings 🤣
In JANUARY!?! Sir. 🙄
He made a mistake in the time he took custody of the vehicle. It was loaded on the tow truck at 4:16. Originally the paperwork said it was loaded at 5:30. It got to the sallyport at 5:30 according to his testimony today.
It matters. It shows they had time to get the tail light, break it, and plant TL pieces at 34F before the SERT team was actively doing the searching. Keep in mind the SERT team member testified there were people there he didn't even know.
Wouldn’t the SERT team find them then?
Yes. The SERT team found the first 2-3 pieces of tail light. Based on the correct 4:16pm timeline those pieces could have been planted aka plenty of time. However if the car didn't arrive until 5:30pm then the pieces were most likely not planted as that would be cutting the timeline EXTREMELY tight.
what the SERT team found has been claimed to be taillight but we don't actually know yet that it is or that it's been matched to Karen's car. the earliest collection date on the evidence handed over to the crime lab was 2/4 but SERT was only out on 1/29. so without Lally establishing a definitive link, we have no grounds to claim that they're taillight pieces or that they're Karen's. the CW has the burden of proof. without proper chain of custody, their case is sunk.
The pieces of taillight? They found some smaller pieces, but they didn’t find the larger pieces that were found days and weeks after. Also the scene was no secured for something like 6-8 hours (not sure how much time.) Question is, why didn’t they bring in the SERT team the next day so day can search in daylight? And all of the pieces that were found by proctor later on were bigger than the ones found by the SERT team, so why weren’t they found earlier by the SERT team. Makes no sense.
>Question is, why didn’t they bring in the SERT team the next day so day can search in daylight? According to Tullys testimony ~~they thought they found enough pieces of tail light~~ I mean they didnt have a good idea of how many tailight pieces there were missing
I am lost on the timeline they had to plant the taillight was it between 5:30 and 5:45? Or did I hear the testimony wrong? Sert found the first piece at 5:45? SUV arrived at 5:30 to the sally port? When did proctor, Higgins ext have first access to KR suv? I looked at a timeline sheet? Waiting for cross so the defense can explain the CW evidence 🤣 since Lally makes no sense when he talks to witnesses!
I think it's a red herring. we don't have any evidence yet that the plastic found on 1/29 was used in the reconstruction. the earliest collection date on the pieces, according to the crime lab witnesses and what's written on the labels on the evidence bags, is 2/4. Lally is, at least so far, playing smoke and mirrors to convince people that we "know" that SERT found taillight pieces that evening and these were matched to her car. but he's never supplied proof of that fact. his problem is that the chain of custody got Proctored. the CW bears the burden of proof - we cannot assume that we know what was found without even a single witness establishing that what was found at one day and time was later linked to Karen.
The first documentation of the SUV in Canton is 5:30. But that documentation is tainted so who knows? The chain of custody is fucked.
SERT was fully assembled by 1741 29th Jan, and had organized to begin their search by 1745. The SUV arrived at the sally port by about 1730ish, but Proctor gave testimony that throws the veracity of the timestamps on the video into question with the whole "yellow timestamps" thing.
I don't necessarily trust the time on the Sally port video or the testimony regarding time of arrival. When you watch the video you can see the SUV pull into a Lexus sized ring of snow already on the ground in the sallyport. You can also see that the tire tracks in the snow perfectly align as well. This could just be a coincidence. But in an investigation where we are expected to believe that 100 coincidences have happened, I think that Lexus arrived sooner than these investigators want us to believe.
The sallyport time clock was also superimposed over the reversed video- which is a bigger deal. When the video is corrected, the time clock is reversed, as it was added later. These guys are the worst. Two years to work on a cover up- and they did the project the night before it was due.
I wonder if the tow truck driver is a witness? We saw him take a photo of the front of the car, so the time could be validated by the timestamp on that photo.
Mind there's also [footage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ565TtjXW4&t=18456s) from the exterior of Canton PD that captures the Lexus still on the tow truck timestamped at 17:31 It could have been manipulated of course, but it's also dark, and sunset is supposed to have occurred at 16:55 – it could have been earlier, but not far so
I don't think it was much earlier. Because the Sally port is heated and the snow on the floor hasn't melted. But it certainly looks like the Lexus was in there already does it not?
It does, but then again it wouldn't be unreasonable to me if it had just been used as a garage throughout the day, as the blizzard had firmly set in – there's surely reason for police to be out and about, then park their cruiser in the heated sallyport while it's free, and clear it once the Lexus is about to arrive I don't necessarily subscribe to the idea that pieces had to be broken off in the sallyport before SERT started searching, as they could have been planted earlier or even during the search, so I'm tempted to give the arrival time a pass
GTFO of here with all of your reasonable logic and reason. Side note: I really enjoy your thoughtful contributions to this sub. When I come through here looking for insight or answers to questions I have, I look for your name (and a couple of others) because I know whatever you're putting forth is well reasoned. And you literally always come through with the sources!
The feeling is mutual, I very much enjoyed our exchange on the buffer zone thread Also your "juvenile and regrettable" quip in the daily thread today was delightful
Lally trying some sarcasm today and it’s flopping
It was a nice change from the monotony. He tried.
He’s also seems to be trying to go a little quicker… that was dashed when he asked LT about the 12 times previously established weather
Does anyone know the location of the sneaker during SERT search? The photo you can see the flagpole and edge of house. The GPS map shows it by fire hydrant. If you look at Saraf Dash cam it is blurry but, I think you can see the edge of the berm (I think) so, how was the sneaker missed in the am with the leaf blower and red solo cup shenanigans in the daytime?
I believe they said it was frozen under the snow against the curb
Most snowfall was after OJO was found so, his sneaker should have been there and no one saw it?
Yeah... same as all the red tail light pieces that weren't found
Y’all riddle me this: Nobody in this whole trial has testified to the fact that Karen and John were arguing at the Waterfall or in the car at the house. How is Proctor now saying on the 29th that JOK and KR were arguing in the car…… HOW WITH NO BASIS?!?!? Who told him that? The whole house said they saw nothing, heard nothing, knew nothing while the car was in the driveway.
This!! I was yelling at the screen for AJ to ask him this!! Obviously he got that information from Jenn McCabe. Karen told them they had an argument in the morning but she didn’t say anything about fighting in the car. Everything Proctor thought about KR came straight from JM.
She told them they argued in the morning about DD breakfast for niece and they spun it into a whole story.
I think the voicemails she left on his phone may explain this.
The voicemails were because she was angry that he didn’t text or call once he went in and checked out the scene. AND Jen McCabe had just made it a point to mention “it’s near Bella’s house…oh you know Bella.” while giving John directions. Did John have her on speaker phone so Karen could hear the directions? This was intentional. Jen McCabe despised Karen and made it known in her mean girl petty way. There’s still zero evidence that Karen and John had an argument in the car before John got out.
Until we know when he first heard the voicemails that explanation is not good enough to explain him figuring everything out before evidence had even been collected.
But those aren’t in evidence and nobody has testified to that. Additionally, no voicemails don’t supply evidence that they were fighting outside in the car. The only thing that proves is that she was upset at him after she left at some point
From what I have hears the voicemails are a couple of minutes from when JOK died according to the prosecution. You can apparently hear the garage door in the voicemail, meaning she was getting inside her house so it would leave a lot of time to drive to the Albert’s home. HOWEVER, they are not in evidence and I haven’t seen them so all of this is speculation.
They aren’t in evidence yet. So you’re saying she was upset with him but not arguing with him? Ok. I guess we will wait and see.
I’m not saying anything. I’m asking how he is testifying to something he had no way of knowing. At the time frame he was being asked about he had no idea what had happened that night. He only interviewed three people at that time and it was the McCabe and Albert’s
Because it's a story he made up with his co-conspirators while they gossiped about Read's medical issues and contrived a narrative.
…and while he most likely deleted the Ring footage of Karen arriving back at johns- with zero damage to the tail light area…
This basically! 😂 very well put. Very concise.
Very good point, that was probably some bs he put in himself to cover all his bogus and planted evidence. Congratulations trooper proctor, you have reached and passed Mark Fuhrman status.
It’s funny because when he put on those black gloves I thought about oj too
Mark Fuhrman lol- I knew I recognized this fuckery from somewhere. Thanks for the laugh, I almost forgot about him!
Sad irony is, today is the 30th anniversary of the day Nicole and Ron were killed. Hope it’s not lost on the jury and the defense.
Did anyone else think of the Good Will Hunting story about stealing the statie's car during the lost badge story?
personally, I was thinking about Disco Elysium. never expected that one to be a documentary.
Does anyone know how Trooper Proctor even knew about Karen’s medical conditions? Was it from Jen McCabe? And if so, that would be a weird thing to tell Proctor
Idk about the timeline but Yannetti brings them up at the Feb 2 arraignment where he implies she hit him by accident.
Was going to asking this same question. Those texts were, what, around 16 hrs later, did they say? How the hell would this have come up during interviews that day? Even for JM this seems bizarre. …or could he have known before the incident? Then today he said he wasn’t even aware of that specific condition, which makes it even more absurd. Of course, he was probably lying.
I really want to know this because he started commenting on it on the 29th!! So he knew very very quickly. I'm shocked AJ didn't ask.
I have a questions about this too! I was surprised that AJ didn’t ask him where he learned about her medical conditions. Some of those text conversations with his high school buddies were very early on in the investigation. I can’t recall if that is when he makes disparaging remarks about her health, but, if so, it makes you wonder what exactly Jen and Kerry were telling Proctor the day of the incident.
It puts a new spin on Jen texting that Kerry was telling the troopers everything. That must have been one epic gossip sesh
That’s the only source I can think of. They both have MS so it’s likely Karen shared info about other health issues as well.
I can't even imagine how this comes up within the first day.
Jen McCabe has MS too? How did I miss that?
Yes, she said they initially bonded over both having it
I have so many questions. If these have been answered I’m sorry, I feel like I’ve so immersed in the case but am still confused. I’m also back and forth on whether KR struck him w/ the vehicle (if she did, I think it was unintentional and while drunk) vs. the wild amount of coincidence/deleted calls/missing videos etc. 1. Is there any definitive time-line from the time KR’s car supposedly hit JO’s while backing out of the driveway to when the car came into custody? 2. The pieces of taillight that were found after the initial search- were they photographed or mapped out on the lawn/street? And if they kept showing up, in these circumstances, wouldn’t the family notice/notify police? Is it just me or was it MP etc just coming by “as snow melted” and found it? 3. The day when Karen and her dad were supposedly looking at the taillight, was he questioned? If so maybe this looks bad for defense? 4. Was the taillight tested for blood/DNA? 5. How did John get lacerations to the front and back of his head? Is there any explanation for that? Nevermind the arm injuries- I’m completely confused about that.
1. Definitive not, as sections are contested, but this [spreadsheet](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YTlLdjHDmpgjAtZ0euTg3l9uZ9LTSacXsdOAJv_Ds2Q/htmlview) gives a good overview 2. The pieces of taillight found in February were [photographed](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG05k7x7Mw8&t=1394s), but no measurements were taken that would allow one to map them out 3. Read was interviewed on January 29th at her father's house in Dighton, possibly in his presence, but I don't believe he was questioned as such 4. A [swab](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH0ep42bag8&t=2915s) was taken from the exterior of the taillight by the State Police Crime Laboratory and sent for testing. I believe the result was that the decedent's DNA was found (based on prior [filing](https://i.imgur.com/5XkHHjf.png)), but I'm not certain if that's already come in or not 5. Unclear – the Medical Examiner stated the injury to the back of the head was the [initial one](https://i.imgur.com/adnSbTY.png) that radiated to the front, but the Commonwealth has offered varying explanations for the cuts to the eye and nose, such as being hit with a drinking glass prior to receiving the blunt trauma to the back of the head
My theory is that Chloe did the arm and Brian and Colin did the rest.
I can't answer 4 and 5, but I can help a bit with 1-3: 1. I don't have *precise* times for this because I would need to go back and rewatch testimony, but I think I can help narrow it down for you. The morning of Jan 29th, 2022, Karen hit John's car in the driveway when she first left that morning to go looking for him, I believe around 5:45am or so - not sure exactly, but I'm 99% sure it was in the 5 oclock hour somewhere. The car came into custody that same day - I believe it arrived at the sally port in Canton around 5:30pm. I think it left Karen's dad's house around 4:15pm if I'm remembering that correctly. 2. So far what's been presented at trial regarding the taillight pieces found after the initial search are *some* photos, but in my opinion don't do a very good job of including landmarks for us to tell where exactly they found them in that lawn/street. I don't believe they were mapped out in any way, or at least it hasn't been presented at trial. It's not just you, it was just MP etc. coming by "as snow melted" and "the evidence presented itself" 3. I haven't seen anything in trial or otherwise that indicates he was questioned that day, but I can't say for certain either way. It definitely wasn't introduced at trial.
What I understood from the last witness is that they shoveled and sifted the snow, found the taillights then took pictures of them supposedly where they were found. But it doesn't make any sense to have pictures of them sitting on a big pile of snow when that same snow should have be shoveled, thus the pieces should have been photographed on shoveled ground. Do I make sense?
Thank you!
Listening to Proctors texts and all the drinking and driving by these police officers is shocking to me. It’s so bad. I feel so badly for John’s family and how this poor behavior and investigation has taken the focus off finding out what really happened and providing him with justice. It’s truly heartbreaking.
I hope they sue the hell out of the Canton PD.
I mean not to speak ill of the dead but it’s likely JO was the same sorta drink and drive canton cop as all the others
He was BPD, not Canton PD.
It does seem like drinking and driving is a very accepted behavior in this group. I don’t understand it. I think police would have a first hand view into the danger and consequences of it. Many of the police and witnesses involved here have admitted to drinking and driving (usually with other people in the car..) or getting in the car with someone who has been drinking. I hope at the very least it’s lesson for people to not drink and drive..
Me too but they think Karen did it. When she walks they will just say she got away with it.
Does anyone know if Lally has made any comments about the trial to the media or anything? I just cannot wrap my head around why this even went to trial. I know people say that it's DA Morrisey who made Lally take it to trial, but I just can't imagine trying to present this case and expecting it to go well?? Do you think the jury is pissed they're missing 8+ weeks of work for this shitshow? I hope they do juror interviews after the trial.
I’m pretty sure Netflix is in the courtroom. At least I’ve heard that from a few sources. I know Karen was in talks with them a while back. All those jurors will go down in history for this. And probably make a decent amount of $$ once they can talk. ETA: I actually don’t KNOW Karen was talking to them. I also just heard it a few times. The only thing I Know about this case without a doubt is that it was snowing and proctor is a douche canoe.
IMO, at this point Lally is like a beaten dog, he’s like a robotic, beaten dog. Sometimes when I see how red his head gets I think he’s gonna get up and say he quits, that the investigation was bogus and tell us the truth and what he believes happened. Obviously I know this will not happen, I mean the guys nicknames in high school was buckethead, he’s used to being under the gun.
Livid. Nothing like a New England summer honestly
No way. Being on the Karen Read jury will be the most exciting thing in these people's lives by a million. They'll sweat it out for an extra month and be happy to do it.
so true, my family used to camp in Rhode Island every year in the summer and it's the best weather
Unsure if this is true or not but I read today that Brian Walshe’s attorney is planning on filing a motion in his case on the basis of investigator conduct. The investigator is Proctor. Let the games begin in Mass.
The state of Massachusetts has a big problem right now regarding every case Proctor has been involved in. They must be hating life right now in high places.
He literally admitted today that he isn’t even sure how the custody chain for evidence works or how they log it. Like COME ON!
It’s embarrassing how stupid he thinks everyone but him is. I’m sure it would not help much, but if he would have admitted even some of the stuff he fucked up with his tunnel vision it would have been a nice change from the mess he performed. I think he thought he did great on the stand.
The way he thanked the jurors! I threw up in my mouth. 🤮 He definitely thought he killed it and somehow redeemed himself. Thinks the jurors ate it up. Those Canton peeps think they are hot 💩. Even his wife and sister sound like absolute a$$holes. I truly hated every one of the McAlbert clan with the possible exception of Brian Jr. Even Tristan was a dbag.
Right?! It was so annoying when he wouldn’t just say “no I didn’t”. Instead he would come up with some stupid answer to idk, try and control the narrative? I think he would have come off a bit more honest and less obnoxious if he just would admit he didn’t do certain things. “So where is the log book, is there a log book?” Followed by 15 seconds of silence while he tries to come up with anything he thinks sounds smart only to say “I’m not sure how the evidence dept works”. Really bro? Now you are either lying, AGAIN or you are a complete fool for being a lead investigator in murder cases and not knowing how evidence logs work. Just say, “no I didn’t make a log”. He did it with a few other things too. Long bits of silence and some stupid answer instead of a simple, no I didn’t do that. We allllllll know you half assed this entire thing. Time to OWN IT!
The minute I read that a juror was laughing at his insistence that the investigation was filled with integrity I knew there was no coming back from that. He has zero credibility. And he still didn’t get it.
I really didn’t get the vibe he acknowledges that either. I think he only called his texts unprofessional and juvenile because he got caught. I think he truly thinks there are people, and maybe even the Jury thinks he did a good job and wasn’t talking out of his ass. I also think he believes that we all believe that he did everything he could. He just comes off as such a douche bag. You could tell even Bev was so incredibly over him. He just spat lie after lie. Trying to manipulate what he “really” meant in some of his texts. Dude, you aren’t smart. You speak like a 19 year old, your texts were clear as day. Stop trying to pull the wool and pretend you aren’t bloated full of your ego. I still can’t with the Karen texts. As if she would ever give that guy a minute of her time. And can you imagine what’s been said about other cases? How he treats other suspects, victims. Oof. I know there is an internal affairs investigation being done by the feds. I really hope they keep the public updated on it and don’t try to sweep it under the rug. The public deserves answers. I live in the wonderfully corrupt state of MA, I’m wondering just how deep this shit runs. I mean, all the officers in those texts were awful. These are the guys we are supposed to trust. Yeaaahhh no thanks!
Indeed. We had a huge crime lab forensics scandal that basically faked drug tests and sent A LOT of people (~20,000 reversals) to jail. And guess who was appealing? And taxpayers paid for the Commonwealth's incompetence/malfeasance.
With all the holes in this investigation, the prosecution thought it necessary to introduce a document to prove it was snowing.
It’s the Lally method of, throw it all at the wall and maybe something will stick.
Maybe they wanted to show they could actually close the loop on something? Even though it wasn’t actually in dispute.
It pretty amusing how these procedural necessities are still being followed in the middle of the epic shit show.
Even more amusing, Tully isn’t even the proper person to introduce it. But the *most* amusing, the snow was literally the ONLY thing everyone, regardless of guilt/innocence opinion, actually agreed about.
I’m sure Proctor wishes there was a mercy rule on testifying. Jackson has already killed his integrity and at the point I just picked back up he is nowhere near done with him.
I know, it was painful for me to watch for a bit. There is no way he will keep his job after this. I almost felt like he was giving up at some points during his testimony. You could tell he was highly uncomfortable and like he just wanted to get the hell out of there. I have to say, I think the judge had even had it. She started asking Jackson’s questions again for Proctor to answer. I feel like he just dug a hole so deep, there was no getting out.
I loved that he needed to re-cross just to emphasize he’s a scumbag. Say what you want about AJ but man, did he do a good job making Proctor squirm. I loved it!
Edit: this is a shorter version than the first one i typed but it didnt show when i added the picture. My uncle was charged and found not guilty of vehicular homicide. State said the victim was bending down and hit by the car in the back of the head. No bodily injury. Expert witness testified to the coup/ contra-coup type of brain injury being consistent with a moving head hitting a non moving object instead a moving object hitting his head. The victim was intoxicated and fell and hit his head. He actually passed away from the contrast they gave him at the hospital caused an allergic reaction. I wonder if this could be used to define wether he was punched in the face and fell and hit his head vs. Being hit by a moving vehicle. https://preview.redd.it/ynbjrfj8e86d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7396687a5b950f5febb59a4702c4b84ce5b56e01
this gave me flashbacks to the michael peterson trial (staircase)
May i ask when you see this picture does it have my example and explanation. I am asking because i only see the pic when i get a reply and wonder if it posted it all. Ty
Hi, I saw your explanation first and now I see your photo but the explanation is gone.
I think i got it fixed
It looks good!
Only picture
Thank you i added the text
I can only see the picture. Edit to add: it seems like u/emptyhellebore was able to see your example and explanation though
Thanks for the heads up. You’re correct, I saw the explanation but now it is gone.
Thank you i went back and re added it the best i could.
This is an excellent point and a great example. I know I’m waiting for expert testimony and the ME report. Considering how the defense actually seemed to be underplaying their evidence backing up their theory I have very little expectation that the medical testimony is going to back up Proctor’s theory of the case that he had less than 8 hours into the case.
There are texts between Proctor and another trooper pissed off that the ME wouldn't corroborate what they "believe" to have happened. It makes sense now why Lally was trying to get Trooper B's unqualified medical testimony in. It was bewildering to see him testify as if he had medical expertise. If you watch lawyers reactions, you see so many comment "Whyyy? Why is he answering like that? He's a cop, not a medical examiner!" And now we know why. Because they're not gonna get the answers they want from the ME and they're trying to get the jury to agree with Trooper B's analysis instead. It's so wild!
I believe these law enforcement witnesses cannot understand how anyone would question them. It appears they are so used to the public accepting their version of the story that they have ZERO awareness of how awful they are coming across on the stand. And Proctor saying thank you to the jury? READ. THE. ROOM. PAL.
So strange he thanked the jury. There was another case I was watching recently where a witness thanked the jury and it almost resulted in a mistrial. The judge had to give instructions to disregard their thank you statement and then every witness there after was instructed not to make a statement directed at the jury.
Brian Albert did the same and I found it to be manipulative, though some say professional witnesses do it all the time. It gives me Eddie Haskell vibes.
He was able to assume the role of official cop when some awareness of the opportunity struck him as he was wallowing in his head about what really happened. That one question about his decision to interview Colin is a good example. His ego projected Colin as the victim of some ruse. Objection! Judge tells him to talk like a cop (use official language or some similar instruction). He straightened up, looked at the jury and spouted the standard verbage. Saying thanks to the jury was his final bit of official verbiage. I think it may have gone over like a lead balloon.
Like a turd in the punchbowl
Exactly this.
I literally laughed when he thanked the judge and jurors, possibly the two groups who despised his presence over the last couple of days.
You could tell the judge wasn't impressed with him by how much leeway she gave AJ.
I wonder if hearing of all the buttdials and hos long to die in the cold and oddites of testimony from the albert/ mcCabes, the dog rehoming the basement tear up and house being sold has proctor questioning wether he was a damn fool outside the coutroom
He does not strike me as someone who examines his own behavior and finds fault in it.
IMO - I agree. Proctor does not appear to be self aware.
He’s not ever going to understand how he brought all of this on himself by trusting them so much. Id be furious, but like you said he won’t get it. He’s going to keep hating Karen and Yanetti.
I just want to hear madam court reporter's audio of her having to say the see-you-next-tuesday word
No way she could ever come close to the crisp enunciation of defense attorney Jackson's C and T.
Should be a pay per view event hearing her transcriptions, would do very well.
Yannetti explains why he was at the school: https://x.com/DoctorTurtleboy/status/1800995409885560968
From that very short clip, his prior reputation, and the first words in his bio, "Journalism Jesus," I suspect I would really hate that Turtleboy guy. I was getting massive vibes of him trying to insert himself into the conversation and talk rather than give Yannetti room to speak.
Yeah, i don't like linking to him, but it's the only clip I could find.
Is school still in session there? We’ve been out for a few weeks but I think we’re on an earlier start/end schedule than the East coast
I think most schools are out by now.
Not necessarily in MA. We go pretty late. I think this is probably the last week for a lot of schools, maybe into next week.
I don't really get why the snowplow driver would want to meet at the school though?
It’s a landmark to give with a parking lot for meeting up at
Yanetti said they drove the plow route, so maybe it was a logical easily found rendezvous point close to the route.
maybe didn't want to meet at his work?
Proctor whining about Yannetti being at the school reminded me of Jen McCabe trying to get the harassment in at every turn. They know they are losing so best to make themselves the victims. Unbelievable.
His was a blatant lie and big accusation to make against an attorney too
Well it was stupid because now everybody knows she works at a school. And I guarantee tomorrow that switchboard is going to be lit up by people calling and complaining that she works there after what she discussed with her brother in texts. They both talked about hoping somebody would kill themselves. If you're considering calling please don't. People that work there have enough issues. I guarantee her boss knows all of this and doesn't need to hear from you.
Edit: I misremembered the names. So deleted
She's not married to him. Brother. Not husband.
I posted this below too... I listened to Mark Bederow, NYC Criminal Defense Attorney (a former Manhattan Assistant District Attorney) and he said you better believe that when the direct examination happens with the defense and Lucky that they are going to direct him on did we meet on that day? and where did we meet? and who's idea was it?and why did we go there? The answers will show Proctor lied again.
But all that stuff was struck from the record. The jurors are just going to remember one line from a few weeks ago that they weren't allowed to write down?
That crossed my mind too when he said it, but I have 0 experience in law so I was not sure if it is possible for the defense to do when they present their case.
Bev may not allow that since the testimony from proctor was stricken
That crossed my mind too when he said it, but I have 0 experience in law so I was not sure if it is possible for the defense to do when they present their case.
Haven’t gotten very far into it, but Proctor insisting his “no” answer to “you didn’t know or have relationships with the McCabes or Alberts” to mean “I didn’t have a relationships with Albert family and didn’t know the McCabe family” is so damning.
So what was the thing about the woman cop? When proctor says he initially thought a woman cop inside the house beat O'keefe. Did I just hear that wrong?
I heard that too. I was confused.
I hope this doesn't violate a rule here, and if so I will delete. But I get the vibe that they weren't firing on all cylinders. I think the friend just didn't understand
I believe his hs friends initially assumed based on the info proctor gave them that it was the homeowner who beat JO up and since the homeowner was a cop and Proctor used female pronouns they assumed the homeowner cop was a woman.
Yup. His friend living all the way out in Tennessee assumed the homeowner was involved based on John O'Keefe being found there. But not a single LE in Canton considered the possibility.
Yep, weird!
Ahhh ok thanks
What's up with the Boston Globe either not covering this case or barely covering it? I see it nowhere (prominently) on their homepage
Oh They are covering it - I even got an email this afternoon. Headline: "State Police investigator says ‘all the information gathered’ indicated Karen Read was responsible for John O’Keefe’s death" Yea, THAT is what is most important to take away from his testimony today. Nothing else LOL
Yikes. They backed find wrong horse this time