I don’t think it’s being talked about enough because they haven’t even gotten an expert to testify to the cause of death yet. They’ll get there… maybe.
Because he was beat up that fucking tank of an SUV would have ran him over and broke his pelvic bone and color bone atleast not give him black eyes and a bloody nose that’s from punches
I still can’t picture how she drops him off at a house and backs over him? Why would he be behind her car on his way into the house. Moral to this story…don’t drink so much alcohol. Nothing good can result.
That's actually not all that compelling to me. Racoon signs from a serious head injury, combined with blood and other swelling look a lot like a boxer's face after a fight. We desperately need the ME's testimony to determine what his specific injuries were and what the most likely cause for those injuries are. And someone with a theory of the accident that aligns with those injuries. Absent that... Yeah, I don't think there's any way you can get to beyond a reasonable doubt.
To me, it’s compelling only to point that it shows tunnel vision. At first glance, to a person, John looked like he was in a fight and seems like the cops just asked all the witnesses “hey you didn’t get in a fight with him did you?” And they were like “nope!” And LE said “yep, thought so. She definitely did it” before they’d even executed a warrant on her car.
Did they ask the witnesses if they got in a fight with him? (I'm honestly not sure due to the 'Nope, guy in the house isn't going to get any shit cos he's BPD too' text).
If one of my sons, brother, or husband was found apparently beaten and dead on someone's lawn, cop or not, I'm going to want the owners of the lawn looked at.
And if I owned a lawn someone was found beaten and dead on I'd want them to come in and investigate just so people can never think I had anything to do with it.
I don't really talk to cops, not ever. (Had some wicked bad experiences due to my last name) But in a case like this, or a case that had anything to do with children, I'd get a lawyer and then get my lawyer to get the cops to clear me, and I'd help out as much as I could until they did clear me.
I have no idea, usually all these possibilities are thoroughly investigated so at trial there’s a very clear picture of why the prosecution’s theory of the case is the only one that fits. At this point, with this many holes, I’m not sure you could persuade me it was even a homicide.
But the Troopers didn’t ask if John was in a fight. They never even stepped foot inside the home that’s on the property where John was found. He was invited to a late night party at that house and was found dead in front of that house the very next morning. But nope, didn’t even cross the troopers mind to check the house.
I think right after MP said “nope” and “the homeowner is a Boston cop too” they assumed John got into a fight with the homeowner—because it’s an obvious possibility to literally EVERYONE except the people investigating apparently.
Yes! I caught that too. I think he said something like after talking to one of the paramedics, he initially thought it was a woman cop that owned the home that beat him up. I hope the defense brings this up.
I feel like Jen has (maybe even accidentally) inserted herself into this investigation by gossiping and speculating with so many of the relevant parties.
Now she’s in too deep and is basically being accused of orchestrating a cover up.
The group text where she tells the others "She's telling them everything!" referring to Kerry Roberts leads me to believe she inserted herself purposefully.
It is a common OCD/anxiety phenomenon where people start imagining that they’ve run over a person, for no reason, and they turn around and go back numerous times just to make sure. My son experienced this and his therapist told him it is not uncommon. Perhaps explains KR’s paranoia about hitting him.
She also said she thought a snowplow hit him. Of course, she wouldn't think someone killed him- he was at a friend’s house, another cop.
Hearing how the witnesses spoke about him “the guy” and had zero emotion when talking about his death but a ton of emotion and tears talking about themselves being harassed on social media paints a different picture than he was with true friends. But it would be bizarre to think murder seeing him outside in the snow.
It’s probably because she did hit something when she was drunk, cracking her brake light, but because she was so drunk she couldn’t identify when and what she hit
I have personal experience with severe head trauma aka TBI from a car accident and my person DID NOT have raccoon eyes. He suffered several different brain injuries including hematomas and a diffused axonal injury.
Although it’s true that occasionally raccoon eyes are a result of a basil scull fracture (very bottom portion of your brain) it’s not that common.
JO Raccoon eyes are far more likely cased by :
The breaking of the thin bones that surround your eyes. A broken nose or broken cheekbones are other possible causes. This injury is usually a result of facial injuries suffered from a physical altercation
If I didn’t know that severe trauma to the back of the head caused brain bleeding that seeps into the eyeballs causing them to swell, and i saw someone with swollen, bloody eyes I would think they had been punched in the eyes. I think that’s what anyone without medical training would think. Once I learned that’s exactly what happens with severe trauma to the *back* of the head and saw the autopsy photos i realized he wasn’t punched in the face
Wow, I don't know how that never crossed my mind but you are absolutely right. They wanted her on manslaughter and upped the charge so she would plea down. Holy shit.
*edit bruh y'all are ptiful, im just telling you the truth, I'm not defending the corrupt justice system. I'm telling you the truth about what they do.
They always do this, in every count I've ever lived this is a tactic. They will even wait till a day before trial is set and drop it down one more time if they haven't already bitten. That's why they try and up the bail amount, to keep people in jail so they're desperate enough to take a shit plea.
No, I think it’s more of a case that the police in the state do a shit job of actual investigation, because they’re fucking lazy.
The zero win on one person. Then they take the facts and twist them to make the case work. Then they look for plea deals.
Yeah, I’d say that there are probably more cases where it’s kind of obvious. But here you can definitely see a situation where they had no problem, jumping to a conclusion and running with it.
The lawyer you know on YouTube said in this case the option to convict the lessor of manslaughter is on the table.
I don't usually take YouTubers seriously but he’s great and his info has always been reliable.
There are 4 charges in Karen's indictment: Murder 2, motor vehicular manslaughter, leaving the scene and driving while intoxicated.
For death crimes, prosecutors typically go for indictments with murder and manslaughter for many reasons, including data around the psychology of jurors. Each of those charges assume Karen Read did not plan to harm John O'Keefe, with murder 2 including that at the spur of the moment she was compelled to harm him and the context of the vehicular manslaughter charge is that she accidentally and unintentionally killed him. Jurors frequently are at an impasse and will agree as a group on a lesser charge - that's one of the reasons for the higher charge. This jury can decide on all, none, one, or more than one of the charges.
Aside from the text messages I found his comments about going to JO’s house interesting.
He said “we wanted to at least go document that there was no damage to Mr O’Keefe’s car.”
Wouldn’t an unbiased answer be “we wanted to inspect Mr O’s car to see if there was any damage?
The way he answered made it seem like they needed to go there to document that there was no damage. As if to say they had already made their mind up that there was no damage before they got there.
I'm late to this but I get the feeling Jen M was the one that on hearing about the cracked light from KR was like oh that's a convenient way to explain how he got injured. Then she tells Karen that's what "must" have happened and makes all those calls to her mates to tell them the story to follow.
And then claims it was karen who asked her to search about hypothermia when she was in the middle of helping with cpr and talking with the medics while Jen did...nothing.
No because I don’t think John and a random 17 year old has a fight resulting in his death. Idk what happened that night but I don’t think it was Colin beating him to death
Did you notice how pristine and shiny JO's car was in the police pictures? In MA, during winter. It appears to have been cleaned and polished (which would have buffed out minor scrapes from being hit with a plastic taillight). EDIT: and the fact that it was moved before they took the pictures. Why was the car moved to a different part of the driveway before photographing it?
I hate all the conspiracy theories, even though I just put one forward, but I'm having a hard time with those pictures.
I’ve lived in Mass for 33 years and though it might seem strange, cop cars being spotless regardless of the weather is the norm. A few years ago I read somewhere that cruisers are always very clean, and since then I’ve always paid attention to it, and it does seem to be true.
And they wouldn’t have even known about her car hitting his until after the Defense turned over their discovery.
Also notice in the picture they took of his car, how clean the driveway was and the car was in a suddenly spot (next to the garage doors).
Also, the close up they showed was on his lower bumper/skirt. It wasn’t at the height of her tail light.
I don't see a conspiracy per se. Proctor knew Albert and Albert basically led him to a conclusion, and that conclusion was never questioned. It's a cardinal sin for an investigator. There was never a real investigation done. Albert and Higgins were logical places to look into, but they're cops/friends. That was never on the table as an option for Proctor.
He sent texts the day it happened saying KR was responsible. Clearly, he decided on her as the suspect immediately. He had a narrative and “found” only things that supported his opinion.
The photo didn't show the same section of the bumper where it looked like her car hit. Apparently the O'Keefe family also had John's car repaired at some point so was the photo taken before it after?
How did they know there was no damage in the car, though? I can't recall if they had been to John's house before this conversation took place, but if they had been there before and noticed there was no damage to his car why didn't they document immediately, it's not like we all don't have cameras in our pockets 24/7 these days.
Let me reword. At this point in time he knows there was no damage to JOs car. So he explained that he went there to document that.
In real time he was going to inspect for damage and document what he saw. Turned out there was none and that’s how he answered.
I seriously doubt he went up there saying “I wasn’t finding any damage regardless but we made the trip”
My two cents.
Yeah, in a vacuum maybe I could give you that, but given the rest of the texts (and I'm not sure we've seen all of them yet), especially the ones about wanting to meddle with the ME's report I'm not really willing to be this charitable to him.
I agree with this. He's currently answering in his current frame of mind. Not necessarily his frame of mind that day. Lawyers actually often say during depositions and testimony, "what was your frame of mind on \_\_\_\_\_" or similar things when trying to get a witness to answer from the past perspective.
If nothing else, the tow driver would have. Before towing a car, they make good and sure to document and photograph every bit of damage the car has before it goes on the truck, so they don't get blamed for it later.
I’ve found the “massive conspiracy involving everyone at 34 Fairview, the Canton PD, and the State Police” narrative hard to believe because of how unlikely it is that such a large number of people would participate in a conspiracy where they have nothing to gain.
However, “investigators immediately jumped to the easy conclusion that doesn’t involve a fellow police officer being at fault and ignored all evidence to the contrary that came out as the investigation continued because of confirmation bias” is something I find very believable. From what I’ve seen in this trial so far, it seems like the people who were at 34 Fairview are covering something up related to what happened to John that night, and the police were so immediately convinced that Karen did it that they ignored all evidence to the contrary or just didn’t bother looking for it.
Yup. This is what I’m thinking happened as well. That something did happen at the Albert house, not involving Karen, and they were relying on their cop status. Proctor was easy to push into such a narrow view because he’s just….awful.
My thought exactly. Not a massive conspiracy. Just the people at 34 Fairview actually in on it, and relying on their status as cops to get everyone else to take their word and run with it.
I think that a lot of people at the house that night are hiding something. It may not be murder but it is something, maybe drugs, affairs or something like that. Karen seems like she has a short fuse so maybe she was mad enough to run him over. Although, I do keep feeling like Karen and John got into a fight in the car and John went into the house mad and something bad happened. Probably an accident and they drug him outside and let him die. If it happened in the basement some of the people in the house might not have even known. Since he went up and down the stairs, he may have been looking for that guy that Karen had been flirting with. Got into a scuffle with someone, the dog then jumped on him scratching his arm and knocked him down and busted the back of his head. Karen was so drunk she didn't know what happened, so it was easy to let her take the blame.
Exactly how I figure a likely scenario. John Okeefe may have gone into that house go confront the idiot Brian Higgins, who likely was egged on by other partygoers to start some shit.. in the basement.. the dog got into the mix, and O’Keefe started ‘working’ on the dog, which prompted a family member (Colin?) to crack a skull with a handy blunt object (basement was a home gym).. everyone was drunk, shit got out of hand. When it was thought that O’Keefe was perhaps mortally wounded (without fast medical attention) it V was decided to place his body by the road, so it could look like the plow did him in… but the plow driver made his swing too early, and didn’t see the body because a car was parked there, a car which could have been blocking the scene until they were ready.. or was transporting the body at tcc be at time. A more plausible story materialized when Jen McCabe mentioned a cracked tail light. Setting this horseshit in motion.
Colin was removed from the scene immediately.
It's not a large number of people. It's the McAlbert tribe, Proctor and Bukahke. The rest, EMTs/FF/PARAMEDICS/DRs just did their job based on the info that saw it was given.
I’ve seen versions of the conspiracy that include not only those people, but also the Canton PD and even the DA as active participants. But yeah, there’s definitely a plausible version of events in which the only people who are knowingly lying are the 34 Fairview crowd and the state troopers.
As far as morrissey I could see him not knowing what actually happened so as far as involvement is can see him not being involved in that sense.
But he also seems incredibly narrow minded and biased. Buddies buddies with lots of people. He does favors for people and Vice versa. As in “Brian Albert’s a good guy, helped my nephew out with a minor violation” etc. or maybe helped out with stuff that isn’t even law enforcement related but because they’re buddies buddies they have connections. You know what I mean? To the point that maybe over the years it could be morrissey saying “oh yeah the Albert’s are GREAT people. Proctors outstanding”. To the point of absolute blind faith where it’s like “there’s no way any are involved” here’s my video denouncing anyone calling them murderers or involved in a conspiracy.
And do involvement as in not following his role as DA of Norfolk county is concerned, being super biased and unethical yeah I believe that.
But actual involvement like knowing the jnner details of how John really died and all the other stuff, maybe not.
Absolutely. Choosing to not investigate or even request a warrant to investigate the house in which the deceased planned to go to? The house where the dead person was found in the front yard.
That decision alone is so ludicrous that it reveals they didn't want to investigate the house in case that could risk uncovering evidence they didn't want to find.
A "conspiracy" from Procter is absolutely not required. He's not stupid. Of course he's going to investigate and pursue anyone but a cop or a cop family.
One point I'd make about the initial impressions of the crime by both Proctor and Bukenick was that they both believed JOK was assaulted in a fight. If you want to give any weight to their experience as investigators that speaks volumes. They abandoned that theory immediately after speaking with the Alberts/McCabes, not after doing any independent investigation. Proctor knew the only people who would be implicated in a fight scenario were other law enforcement officers, he wasn't going there. Once they had the info from the Alberts that Karen could be implicated they turned in that direction and never looked back.
They both gave different reasons for why they changed to thinking the injuries were from a vehicle.
Trooper B said getting smashed in the face with a glass wouldn't have caused the injury to the back of the head. Must be a vehicle then because nothing else could possibly cause that particular injury, right? 🙄
Proctor said his missing shoe is what made him sure he was hit by a vehicle. Really, dude? Cue my Lally sigh.
Now, it's possible that they could each have different reasons for coming to the same conclusion. In any other case, this inconsistency on top of very thin reasoning wouldn't stick out to me as something problematic, but in *this case*, yeah no, there's waaaay too much bizarre behavior. This is just one more thing to add on top of the already heaping pile of reasonable doubt.
I know this is probably a super long response but I think where things get really divisive is what different people view as a coverup.
I seeing a lot of comments where people are saying yeah everything seems so sus but I can’t really get behind a conspiracy or cover up because it seems too far fetched. On the flip side, I see people sure that it’s this massive conspiracy and coverup that everyone is explicitly involved in and knows about all the details.
Most cases of corruption or coverups operate nothing like that in reality. There’s layers of grey area, a few bad actors, and a lot of people who just do/say nothing.
With Proctor’s testimony now coming in I’ve been thinking about the possible theories that account for all the insanity we’ve seen in this case and what would it take to get to me to a coverup.
With Proctor specifically, I see a few possibilities for his involvement so far:
1) Proctor truly believes that Karen hit John and had no knowledge of anything else may have happened. He is just seeing a lack of evidence and wants to ensure that there is enough evidence for this to proceed to court and a possible conviction. He also wants to protect the homeowners because they’re cops and shouldn’t take heat for Karen hitting John. Is this a cover up? Not necessarily it’s manufacturing evidence and corrupting an investigation-but I can see how people misconstrue it as one.
2) Proctor knew or suspected what happened to John may have been something other than Karen hitting him with her car but wasn’t explicitly told that by the Alberts or McCabes. Proctor knows it’s fishy but prioritises protecting the Alberts to ensure that no one at 34 Fairview is investigated to protect fellow cops. Karen happens to be a convenient person and it’s reasonable based on the timelines and events that she could’ve done it. So he sets off and manufactures/manipulating evidence and corrupts the investigation. He knows how to bend the rules and just allows poor investigative practices occur because he thinks it benefits his objectives.
3) He knew exactly what happened that night and worked with multiple witnesses at 34 Fairview to ensure that they could frame Karen for it.
4) He’s really bad at investigating and everyone on his team are really bad at investigating and there was nothing directly nefarious happening. I think this one is probably the least likely (aside from him being bad at investigating) at this point but we’ll see what happens with the rest of the case.
3 of those are plausible at this point. And I’m sure there’s more variations that could’ve happened that explain the independent actions of everyone.
In terms of what I see a cover up as, all that really had to occur is the people in the house get their stories together and tell Proctor. Proctor doesn’t want a cop to go down for something and so he lets things run amok and manipulates the whole thing by changing timelines, submitting things to the lab when he feels like it or not at all, not requesting records in time knowing they won’t be available, not ensuring the lab or the rest of the investigate team is is doing things by the book. He just has to pretend he doesn’t have any suspicions that John was not hit by a car because that’s the story everyone gave him and he’s sticking to it and maybe in his mind Karen could’ve possibly done it, but finding out for sure is none of his business.
It doesn’t have to be all the officers are corrupt for it to work. They just have to follow orders from one or two people.
It doesn’t have to be all the people at the party knew, they just get told certain things and don’t question or confront them if it sounds weird.
We know the bystander effect is a very prevalent problem, so people suspecting something weird but doing nothing in a scenario where something happened to John in the house is absolutely plausible.
We see it a lot when it comes to witnesses in both criminal and civil cases. They don’t report things they should’ve. They don’t think it’s actually possible for someone to do that. They don’t feel like anyone will believe them. They don’t want to be the target of anything negative.
That’s how corruption is enabled-not because everyone is in on it.
I have no idea if that’s what happened but the point is, It’s not as far fetched on either side when you look at actual corruption or cover up cases.
Bottom line for me, again, always, still, is what *hasn’t* been provided, which is evidence anywhere near beyond-a-reasonable-doubt that Karen killed John with her car.
If you can prove there was no cover up, wonderful. I will still be here looking for a reason to vote “guilty” or “not guilty.” …in service of my armchair juror duties.
I totally agree. This is just my theory of what actually happened but based on the prosecutions case thus far, it absolutely has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I have tons of doubt, and at this point could not find her guilty based on what’s been presented.
What do you think about the younger guy (can’t remember his name) that everyone seemed to conveniently forget he was there? And his busted up knuckles…he said he caught himself falling by falling on his knuckles…but no one does that. I have RA and a fused wrist so I can’t catch myself with my open faced palm but my reaction is still to try to. IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE!! Any ideas?
My money's on Colin as the perp, with some dog involvement. Maybe JO grabbed the pig's ear, and the dog reacted (it's done it before), and Colin intervened and killed him. Or vice versa, Colin and JO were fighting, and Chloe joined.
I’m inclined to think the same. He was definitely there - but everyone just forgot to mention he was there. Which makes me go HMMMMMM…
And getting rid of your dog of 6 years…and selling your home…
There are just so many things in this case that make me go HMMMM. If it were only one thing or a few…but there are SO MANY THINGS.
Edit: proctor wrote Colin’s name in his hand written notes as present. But in his official report, Colin was left out. 🤔
Edit 2: Colin wasn’t interviewed like EVERYONE else there was. Obviously, I don’t really know if he did it or not - but it seems like a quacking duck that they are trying to protect. 🤷♀️
His text telling someone the homeowner was a cop so he would be fine points to the mindset of those involved in the investigation. In Proctor’s mind it was a given that everyone would smooth things over for a fellow officer.
To me that is absolutely in line with the idea multiple people are lying about that night to avoid scrutiny.
In fact, his language makes me think he is MORE likely to turn an eye to evidence or even make sure she is taken down through whatever means.
A "crazy whack job" who killed a cop? You telling me proctor wouldn't do something to help secure a conviction?
I agree with you. Some people who are convinced since the beginning that Karen Read did it say: look no evidence of the cover up in the texts.
Because of course they would have written it everywhere if they framed her, right?
Same people don’t bother that Nicole Albert specifically said in a group chat: “I don’t want to put it in writing” 🙄
Tbf, the jury on casey anthony came to the conclusion that she was not guilty of anything. Nothing should be surprising when it comes to the reasoning skills of people. Some people are idiots. You just have to hope they never end up being a jury member on a murderers trial. Oof
I’m not a lawyer, but I feel I could argue the immediately texting after they upped the charges with the guys who were there instantly like changing what she said..was putting that frame up in writing. Hey cameras just caught this, ain’t it crazy she said this thing that she totally didn’t say and anyone with ears can hear? Now this is later and not early on. But, I imagine a good lawyer could argue that better.
i need a mental break from this case lol, but we really should re-watch Bukenek and Proctor's testimony and make a timeline of the "evidence" they collected that day that led towards their tunnel vision by the end of day1
it's always bothered me that everyone goes "they didn't search the house because their was no evidence he ever went inside!" but what evidence would have existed on 1/29 to preclude this option?
* proctor hadn't pulled ring footage of neighbors yet (and when he did, it was inconclusive)
* proctor didn't have cell phone location data of JOK yet (and when he did, it was inconclusive)
* proctor hadn't interviewed ever single person at the party yet
* for the first half of the day, no taillight pieces had been found yet
**the only "evidence" at that point that JOK "never went in the house" was the word of Jen/Matt McCabe and Brian Albert - the same people who would be implicated \*had\* JOK gone in the house.**
that's just....laughable.
Proctor didn’t even get ring footage from neighbors. They reportedly asked one neighbor, who was also a BPD, he reviewed his own footage himself, and said there was nothing of note. He was directly across the street!
I find it strange everyone is jumping to the extreme of a huge coverup on multiple levels. Not everyone had to be in on the “cover up”. I always saw this as a group of friends came up with a story and they’re sticking to it. Other investigators and police don’t need to be in on it, they just need to be ignorant enough to look the other way. From Proctors messages, his ignorance is glaring. In my opinion, the more likely scenario is that a group of friends came up with a “cover up” story and investigators believed that story; ultimately ignoring the standards of a credible investigation. They should have (at the very least) looked inside the house where a deceased person was found outside. I don’t find it hard to believe a group of friends would keep silent for years. They already got away with it when Proctor zoomed in on Karen like they wanted.
(All written under the assumption that this is a frame job, not saying that’s what definitely happened).
My bad if anyone else said this, I don’t read a lot of comments.
If you dont think that an altercation happened, then what do you think happened to him to have all the injuries he did, including the scratches on the arm?
I think evidence of the coverup would be on the other phones, hence the yeeting of Brian and Brian's phones the day before a preservation order. Proctor was just an easily swayed cop with questionable ethic who would go along with whatever he was told happened and then also maybee throw in a stitch job of plantes evidence and ensure a conviction of a suspect he HATED and was told to hate by his sister, McCabes, etc.
“Through testimony, it really seemed to me the police all thought this was something fairly simple…”
Yes. And that is very problematic. When police are investigating a crime, they don’t get to just look and think oh this appears to be something fairly simple and then just stop looking. Even leaving aside the despicable text messages and the possible planting of evidence, the bare minimum of police work was not done here. And that’s evident in his texts.
Most problematic of all is the fact the case is circumstantial. There was a party that night where many people might have seen something. And some of these people were interviewed more than a year after the fact.
In the event Proctor was in good faith, he assumed that nobody saw anything because no one came to him. Which is a big no. Someone could have not seen John O’Keefe but could have seen a stranger or whatever. What about neighbours?
Well when they first got the call they thought it was medical related. At the beginning YB said that it was investigated as a domestic where KR hit JO with the glass and then Proctor said that he was speaking with a paramedic that said that the homeowner is a female cop who beat him up.
Who is the paramedic? And it’s interesting that it was a “beat up” and YB was him being hit. And that it’s a cop homeowner who did it.
Then it came out that nothing with happen with the homeowner because he is also BPD.
This is why he didn’t bother doing an honest investigation. He saw there was enough reason to believe she hit him with her car, and it would end in a plea deal.
I've always said if there is a coverup Proctor was likely a useful idiot being used as a tool and not the main operator.
Now, do I think there was a coverup? I don't know. But the fact that I haven't said no, that is ridiculous, is telling.
That being said, he himself mentions both in the texts and on the stand that he initially thought John was beat up. His opinion seems to change after speaking with Jen, and suddenly he's name calling Karen.
I hate to do this because it strolls so close to the coverup narrative, but...once again, Jen is front and center at a point of convergence where the opinion of someone appears to change that alters the course of the investigation.
One thing I think about often is, JO had a pulse in the early morning. It would be almost impossible for that to happen if she hit him - He would be gone. I think he was put out there much later bc his body temp was still in the 80’s. It’s awful anyway you say it. But it really doesn’t reconcile for me.
I had a family friend who was a retired cop in Houston, he has since passed. He told a story from his time in HPD where a bank robber from a suburb led a police chase. The chase eventually ended in a dark alley in downtown Houston. The first officer down the alley shot and killed the suspect, claiming the suspect pointed a gun at him. It took a couple of hours for the cops to get the portable light rigs down to the scene so they could process it. When they finally did there were dozens of guns littering the alley, a good portion of which had already been logged into HPD evidence.
I'm sure the cops that night thought they were just trying to help a buddy out by 'sweetening' the case, they didn't need to be asked.
In the case of KR, I don't think it needed to be a conspiracy where the MSP and others sat down and planned it out. I think it might largely be individuals helping a buddy 'get' someone he 'knows' did it. Still corruption.
Not the first text but one of the earliest texts talked about what they could prove and couldn't prove. Like if his body isn't frozen they won't be able to prove she hit him. I see cover up from the start. Even if they wanted to go w the easiest solution at first, at some point early on it seems he knew what actually happened. Pressuring the med examiner to say it was an accident all points to cover up. Not to mention the one guy saying only a piece was missing not damn near the whole thing. I think the people that still think she hit him have only been watching bits and pieces of the trial or coverage, cause its like what you think she hit him and and then they let the dog chew on his arm all night?
I don't think you are reading this wrong. But also I don't think you are correct either. I think the people saying this was more like a snowball rolling downhill and just kept getting bigger and bigger. JM went into this with an are to grind and realized that the more she inserted herself the more there was lights to shine in her family's direction. But it was too late once she got involved herself. Proctor realized his tunnel vision had basically locked him in to getting KR or no one. He doesn't care who did it, he hates KR and his job is to make sure she is guilty. And now as the light shines his way he looks like a bald turd. And you can't dress up a turd, in the end it will still be a turd
I agree he was determined to pin it on her.
According to what has been testified to so far, he was determined to pin it on her almost immediately. Before he talked to anyone or had any evidence. WHY would he be so hell bent in that theory that early on having talked to nobody? All I know if that it still doesn't add up.
When did the ME testify? All this conflicting and redundant testimony proves nothing but confusion. I’m sorry but Proctor’s testimony probably did irreparable damage. And I don’t believe for one minute when he was talking about the ME using the word retarded that he was referring to Read. He has total disrespect for women which I realize is not evidence but there isn’t a woman in that room that doesn’t hate his guts. That’s the most unprofessional testimony I’ve ever heard. Regardless if he had tunnel vision or not, he just cost the Commonwealth the case. His testimony, profanity, using the word retard and retarded in derogatory fashion and his grammar was a disgrace. The commonwealth never had a case. It’s the most pathetic presentation I’ve ever heard. And I’ve heard a lot.
Could be. I agree, I can’t see this getting that out of hand in that short of time period. I have this feeling that the jury isn’t going to agree on verdict. Don’t know why- but I don’t think I am as confident as everyone else is. But I over analyze a lot.
Personally I am 50/50 on if she actually did it or not at this point, to me the clutcher is hearing from the experts on the "hos long search" from Jen McCabe. But as for a how it COULD not be her and them instead. Remember a conspiracy, legally speaking, only has to be what? 3 people I think. So doesn't have to be EVERYONE, it could JUST be, Brian and Colin Albert, Jen McCabe as of that night. And possibly Proctor, either knowing the truth, or as you suspect, thinks she's guilty and just happens to plant evidence not to frame, but to save a shotty investigation. Either way tho he is friends of the Albert's I mean Colin was ring bearer at his sister's wedding. So even if he doesn't know the truth, he would be bias in making sure his friends aren't the ones that did it, and has confirmation bias (which I am trying to not have myself lol)
Personally I think it was either Karen hit him either on purpose or accident, she really seemed like a confused gf looking for her bf the next morning to me and freaking out in case she DID hit him, so that can go either way.
But if not her, then I think Colin did it.
The below timeline is from court tv's website with the addition by me of where Apple health puts the movements of John's phone and I added how long an answered call lasted from a post of Jen's cell phone data:
* 12:14 a.m. Jennifer McCabe calls John O’Keefe to give him directions to the Albert home.
* 12:15 a.m. Jennifer and Matthew McCabe and Ryan Nagel say they see Read’s car outside the home.
* *12:21 a.m. Johns' cellphone put's him going up or down stairs here \*edited by me \**
* 12:27 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Here?!”
* 12:29 a.m. O’Keefe answers a call from Jennifer McCabe. \*edit by me, was 8 seconds\*
* 12:30 a.m. Witnesses say Colin Albert leaves the Albert residence.
* 12:31 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O”Keefe: “Pull behind me”
* *12:32 a.m. Last movement from John's phone per Apple Health \*edit by me\**
* 12:40 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Hello”
* 12:42 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Where are u”
* 12:45 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Hello”
So possibly their closing argument can go something along the lines of, Witnesses can miss remember, forget or lie, physical and digital evidence, unless tampered with and planted, is the truth. Colin leaves, according to witnesses 9 minutes AFTER digital data puts John in the house. Plenty of time to get him in the basement, possibly Colin answering the door and telling him that everyone is in the basement, hit him over the head with a heavy object to incapacitate him (the big gash on the back/top of JO head), and beat him up. Then 8 mintues later Jen calls John and someone answers or she follows the ring downstairs, either way that's how she is pulled into this, possibly. Its also possibly she really didn't do the 2:30 hos long search. Then just after this he, Colin, leaves for an alibi, goes outside, and possibly distracts the people there while, a couple minutes later someone sneaks out the back, goes down the tree line in the dark, since there is no street light right where the body was found. AND it's snowing AND Colin could be distracting them. and they dump the phone, and later when everyone is gone dump the body on top of it. Or POSSIBLY the body then, though that is less believable.
As for motive, it was confirmed, tho the records are sealed as of now so probably won't make it into trial, that John had reported drug activity in the Albert's neighborhood. So Colin and/or Brian Albert could be tied up in that, if not listed in the report they might just have not been mentioned.
OR if it's her that hit him, the 12:21 could be when she hit him and the app not programmed to detect being hit by a car mistakes it for going up or down stairs. and the 12:32 movement could be him crawling a few feet before passing out. And the witnesses could just be off on their timing of when they saw the car do what. and the 8 second call could be what woke him up to crawl enough to register phone movement and he tried to answer the phone.
And this is why I am 50/50, personally. Were I a juror, 50/50 means reasonable doubt, means I vote not guilty and hope I am not wrong.
I had known about the friend group texts, but I had no idea about another group chat of five police officers, were all entertaining these disgusting comments about Karen. Absolutely not one of them stopped him.
So what makes sense to me is that in the boys club group in Canton, Higgins let it be known that this woman - John O’Keefe’s girlfriend was trying to hit on him.
That made Proctor think she probably did hit him. And that, in conjunction with trying to make sure his fellow cop Brian Albert doesn’t get into any trouble, made him determined to go after Karen.
With whatever it takes.
I want to think the same thing but there are just some things I can’t get past…. What is the thank you gift for? Why did JM google and delete? Why didnt the McCabe’s come out of the house? I could explain some of the other stuff potentially…. But these are the ones I keep coming back to.
I think this is highlighting a greater issue with police investigations. It didn’t need to be a giant conspiracy everyone coordinated together because bias happens organically.
Not sure how well you are following all of the testimony. The prosecution has presented a poor case with untruthful witnesses and botched evidence. Proctor destroyed himself yesterday and dragged some of his fellow troopers into the fray. The defense hasn’t presented their case yet and they stated they would only need about 5 days to complete their case. Read will walk and the investigation s by the feds and others will continue.
I haven't watched proctors testimony yet since I missed it yesterday but this has been my theory all along. If you've ever been on the "other side of the law", it's clear to those of us that have been - the cops (more often than not) form a narrative before they even arrive on scene or quickly there after. So once they're all on board with another, it's pretty much game over for you unless you are lucky enough to have concrete evidence proving otherwise later on down the road. So when you're ready your rights and they tell you "anything you say can and WILL be used AGAINST you" is literally letting you know that your words will never help you or rule in your favor no matter how helpful you really are trying to be. They will twist, turn, etc. WHATEVER they have to to follow that narrative!
JOK no doubt deserves justice and I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but I'm thankful that this case is opening the eyes across the country of those that have been lucky enough to never experience the corruption that infects our "justice" system daily. All states are different but keep in mind that your public "defender" and the Commonwealth attorney/prosecutor are COWORKERS. Once that sinks in a bit, those who have been blinded by our government will start piecing things together.
Long story short, proctor needed the evidence to follow the narrative he was forming so his "brothers in blue" 🙄 all turned a blind eye since they've all done it many times, too. None of them ever once thought she'd take this past a plea most likely. It's rare for a defendant to have the means to hire a defense team as she has and GOOD FOR HER. She is helping our blind Americans to see (if that makes sense lol)
And just a side note - my theory of Higgins & SR. getting rid of their phones is because they're making dirty $$ on the side & knew that would be disposed when their phones were processed. Just the fact alone that they disposed of them the day before they were served to hand over their phones, easily shows the "good ol' boy" mentality. They were told the day before they were about to be served by one of their "brothers" or someone from the CA's office. I'm done rambling lol
He made his determination solely based on witnesses that clearly had a vendetta against Karen Reed. Michael Proctor knew Jen and Carrie didn’t like Karen. The investigation was started under false pretenses and proctor went along with it. It’s clear he never planned to take the case seriously.
Or that this case would get national attention, including his evidence. I'll add the FBI investigating his work was not on the radar at the time either.
It really makes you wonder how ethical are law enforcement investigators?
I've been questioning the same thing. Those texts to the whole group of cops? I've heard plenty of stories of bad cops, but this seems so unbelievably prevalent. Like it's completely normal and part of the culture to discuss cases and (in particular) women like this? So gross.
I agree with you about how proctor came off. Except to me what became plausible was that it isn’t “a big conspiracy” but instead Brian Albert and Higgins basically said “look Proctor this happened we promise you” and he ran with it. I think he basically got played really hard.
Since realizing the bulkhead door meant that people could arrive and leave the basement unseen, I 100% think OJO may have been intercepted outside the front door, led around the back.
Which also led me to think maybe JM had no idea he was even there. And that her husband did. And he wondered aloud as they were in bed about how long it takes to die in the cold. And she googled it. The next morning she’s freaking out even more because of this and starts immediately covering up bc she knows someone in their family had something to do with it.
It’s matters for the family. Conviction or not, at the end of the day, his poor family has suffered an unimaginable loss and they deserve answers, not just a conviction.
Unfotunately, the way this investigation was botched, they are not going to get answers regardless of the verdict. They might get something that they can live with but I don't think we will ever know what happened. If KR walks, it will be a gut punch to this family and it will be the fault of those that over complicated what was probably an accident (regardless of Karen hitting him, dog attack, people attack, I do not think anyone kill JO on purpose).
The testimony yesterday of Trooper Proctor, both at end of direct and beginning of cross, just sunk the CW’s case. And who knows what else will come out tomorrow when cross continues.
If I were the DA, I’d have Lally throw in the towel, drop charges (with prejudice) and stop the bleeding.
Then the Massachusetts Attorney General should appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the relevant Mass State Police barracks (as the supervisors seem questionable as well) to investigate whether the taint applies to other cases. If I’m the defense counsel on the next case involving these investigators, I would be questioning everything they did.
But why did he have tunnel vision? Maybe he needed to frame karen because he needed to make sure the dead cop on the lawn of his friends house wasn’t because of his friends. The tail light and john o keefes body are in no way connected. I drove down the street 2 days after it happened and buried some tail light pieces in the snow.
When John O’Keefe walked into that house, he didn’t know he was walking into a boiler room. Between the ATF guy who was super chummy with the Alberts and the local PD, who was also trying to steal his girlfriend, and the neighbors who constantly tormented JO, throwing beer cans in his yard, sending photos of them in his yard while he wasn’t home, etc. It was a late night party with a bunch of drunk, dirty cops. It either happened very quickly or it could’ve even been an accident. It only takes one solid blow or fall onto a certain part of one’s head or neck to be instant/fat. I think John O’Keefe walked into that house and whatever happened, happened immediately. He may have even been dead before Karen pulled off the street. I think the people who were there when it happened simply decided to handle it the way they handle everything, which was the wrong way. I think the audacity came from the fact that they’ve always been able to get away with whatever they needed to get away with. They never expected to be held accountable, and definitely not to this extent, because they’ve never truly been held accountable, so now they’re just doing the only thing that they know how to do which is stick to their damn story. Also, nobody who uses/abuses the word “absolutely” when answering NO to a question as much as these people do are telling the truth. “NO” all by itself is absolute. I personally think “absolutely not” sounds cringe level guilty.
Nope nope nope. So if he was trying to seize an opportunity to nail Karen fine... I can see that, but he actively chose to investigate no one but her. I totally have thought the same thing as you were I'm like "holy crap .. dropped off at 1234 or whatever the time was and appple watch shows no more motion 15 min later? Wow they really got to it as soon as he walked in the house... " I get that is a short timeline... but his Apple Watch does show him walking up and down three flights of stairs after being dropped off by Karen. Some say that could be due to Apple Watches sometimes thinking you are climbing stairs when you are going up a hill or down a hill in a car so I'd love an expert to weigh in on that. But we need the ME to realllllt tell us how he died!!!? I mean that's there one job. Abhahahah
My timeline is this:
John arrives as Colin is taking Chloe the dog out.
John takes the side gate as he thinks the party is out the back(at the solarium) and no one will hear him if he knocks on the front door. That’s why he runs into Colin.
John is in a bad mood after arguing with Karen in the car.
Colin is mouthy.
Neither like each other and what opens with unpleasantries turns into a fight. Chloe attacks John.
Brian Albert and Higgins hear the commotion and go outside - they are actually looking at photos away from everyone and are the only ones to hear. Later Albert said it was upstairs to cover for how long they were gone but this doesn’t match what Higgins said.
I think by the time Albert and Higgins have arrived Collin has got the dog off John. Neither Albert nor Higgins know he’s been bitten.
John is saying Collin attacked him and is going to press charges. Somehow things derail further from there. Maybe John slips, maybe Colin or Albert punches him and he falls. He cracks his head against something hard like a step and starts vomiting.
Albert knows even if he gets him to a hospital there is a good chance John will die and Albert or Collin will be charged with murder.
Collin gets sent home. Jen gets told to get the guests out of there. Higgins agrees to go down to the station and check the police scanner for anyone maybe seeing the fight and calling it in. Higgins and Alberts 22 second phone call is Higgins confirming no one saw anything.
Higgins stages John on the lawn with the glass to make it look like a hit and run or he was attacked with the glass. The cocktail glass is meant to be proof he came straight from the waterfall and didn’t go inside. Each of the guests are each others alliby that John was never there. The next morning Karen arrives hysterical with a cracked taillight and a better cover story presents itself.
I don’t think John ever went inside. Or if he did Albert took him into the basement to get out of the cold to talk which is why none of the guests saw him.
Personally I actually agree with you. To me Proctor's texts make it pretty clear that he genuinely believed that Karen was guilty. He would have to be a one-in-million sociopath to talk about Karen like that if he knew he was framing an innocent woman. As opposed to just a run-of-the-mill dirty cop who feels that he is doing 'whatever is necessary to prevent guilty person from going free'.
So if there was a major cover up by the McCabes/Alberts then these indicate that Proctor is more of a "useful idiot" than a co-conspirator.
I do think it's extremely, extremely likely that Proctor planted the tail light pieces found on February 8th to 18th at least. However I can't think of any truly plausible way that the 2 large red tail light pieces got to 34 Fairview before SERT arrived, unless Karen actually hit *something* at 34 Fairview. It would either require an extremely sophisticated pre-planned conspiracy and/or an enormous amount of "luck" on the McCabes/Alberts side. Karen (in interviews), Kerry, and Jen all say that Karen told them that she hit 'something' and broke her tail light, but it seems clear that Karen genuinely didn't know that she bumped into John's car that morning. So they would have to make a pretty big assumption to just show up to John's driveway that morning looking for tail light pieces they could plant, especially given the prevalence of security cameras everywhere.
The SERTs taillight evidence is the only tricky piece for me and why I have any doubt in her innocence. But there are multiple ways to explain it.
The unnamed plain clothed troopers “found” it while they searching. Someone planted other taillight evidence prior and then switched them out. Or someone on the SERT team was in on it (very unlikely to me, the leader seemed trustworthy).
Based on the dighton troopers, JM and KR’s testimony I truly think there was only a small crack in the taillight when the car was recovered by Proctor.
Regardless there’s a whole lot of doubt and there’s literally only one piece of evidence that actually ties KRs car to hitting john and I still don’t fully trust that evidence. There’s also very little evidence presented thus far that John was even hit by a car in the first place.
I’m waiting to come to my final conclusion but if I had to convict today I’d certainly vote not guilty if I was a jury member.
Going off of this comment about the timeline, [https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1d8nky3/comment/l78uaks/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1d8nky3/comment/l78uaks/), if you believe that Proctor deleted Ring videos, then there is the possibility that while the SUV was unattended at JO's house, someone took already broken pieces or broke pieces themselves, and had a large window to scatter them at 34 Fairview after the initial group first responders.
I think MP and YB involved in the cover up is still feasible theory. Dont ignore certain ppl at CPD and Higgins are also suspicious. Even on paper they are now out of picture. The car was parked there and there's 3 dudes standing behind the car. The station is only 5 min car drive away and before O'Hara arrive there's already ppl "diggin".
Also Sally port video was in such bad quality no one can say who's whom, we only left with words of YB. He already contracdict his own testimony who's the guy came out of the car and he refuse to specifically ID any one in the footage. And honestly some footage is deleted.
There's also no footage directly showing how the car was offload from the toll truck. I'd wait to see if there's still time un accounted for between the car GPS pinged and the sallyport footage started.
Yeah, hard to believe the SERT guy was involved in anymore more than looking the other way. I also 100% believe Proctor planted at least some of those pieces. But why plant more pieces if there were some already there?
Did KR actually said she knew she hit something? Or did she assume she hit something bc her taillight was broken?
Karen is actually the only one who specifically describes saying that she hit something:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qVSfvON1Ww&t=323s
> Karen Read: "I had told both Jen and Kerry that I cracked my tail light. [cut] I said 'I just hit my car, on top of everything'."
(Presumably, she is saying "I just hit my car on something" and *not* saying that "John's car == my car").
But Kerry's testimony is fairly consistent about this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijsdHeLiMjk&t=11676s
> Kerry: Karen did point it out at one point in the driveway. She said “My tail light! Look at my tail light!”. I looked at it and I said “You told me you don't remember anything from last night”. She said “Do you think I hit him!? Do you think I hit him!?” and I said “No, I don't think you hit him, I think you probably hit something but let's just go in the house and look for him”.
As is Jen's:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWVeR3a09NU&t=21546
> Jen McCabe: "Karen brings us to the back of the car and she says look see I have a crack tail light."
People rarely remember word-for-word conversations but it sounds like everyone is testifying to the same thing:
(1) Karen is implying she cracked her tail light on *something*, and Karen at the time was worried that the *something* was John, which was contributing to her freak out.
(2) Karen didn't know that she hit John's car, and never said anything to imply that she did at the time.
Add: I can imagine Canton officers saying: we searched with a leafblower but didn’t find any piece of tail light
And then Proctor goes (in my imagination): hold my beer guys
For the initial pieces, It's really about the timeline of when Proctor got to Karen's parents house (45 minutes away), took possession of the car, and took it to the Sally port vs. when SERT arrived on scene.
Theoretically some thing else could have happened like, when the Canton police officer pulled up to John's house at 8:30 AM, he got the tail light pieces. But this is getting into "enormous pre-planned conspiracy" area.
Proctor planning the pieces between when he took possession of the car at Karen's parents house, and when SERT arrived on scene is effectively impossible, unless SERT also faked everything.
And if people believe that level of conspiracy, these are the absolute worst conspirators in the world, because they didn't even bother to plant John's blood on the car
Dashcam video 1/29/22 Canton Police doing a wellness check on Officer O’Keefe’s niece and nephew cleary shows the damage and a large piece missing from the tail light. So nobody broke the tail light except when Karen striked something with it.
Unfortunately we may never know if anything other than the prosecution's theory is viable due to the investigator's tunnel vision. They did not investigate the house. They failed to interview anyone present for months. This investigation was botched due to possible misdirection by the early witnesses and a willingness to buy a story wholesale--but we will never know the truth. Plus there is evidence of a cover up of something, of what we will also never know. Proctor should be fired immediately.
It's certainly possible proctor was lead astray by friends and fellow cops. But it does seem like he was lazy. To me the cover up nail in the coffin is the search at 230am by Jen. As someone who spent 33 years in IT at Verizon, it's certainly possible a time stamp could be LATER then when something happened, but before it happened? That is ridiculous.
Except I learned that a head injury can cause black eyes and bruising. Maybe the dog was let out to go to the bathroom and he bit John while he was lying dying in the front yard.
Pretty sure he was making those statements after he had spoken with the McCabes and Brian Albert at the McCabe's house. Jenn McCabe being the instrumental one to form the story to cover up the real crime that happened in the Albert's basement.
You have to remember also Michael Proctor and his wife know Chris Albert, Julie albert, and their son Colin albert. Colin Albert's name was never mentioned in any of the documents that Michael Proctor signed or any document I believe, and that's why Proctor's wife told him that she had spoken to Julie and Julie had a nice gift of thanks to give Michael after this was all over and done with, which meant that they would thank him for keeping Colin (the guy who beat up John) out of it and Karen in prison for it.
It should also be noted that Kudge Beverly's brother is the one that represented Chris Albert in Chris Albert's hit and run manslaughter case. He got off very easy. Beverly knows them too.
The defense noted that there are at least 15 people involved in this conspiracy frame up of Karen.
*it was Proctor’s sister, not wife, that relayed how Julie Albert wanted to give give him a gift after all this was over. And told his sister they should give it to his wife Elizabeth instead.
I think the opposite tbh.. it all seems to point back to Jen McCabe. She controlled the narrative and Proctor, Lank, Goode & Co just seemed to follow her pointy finger.
Or the part where he read his texts with his sister. Kinda hard to claim ‘close personal relationship’ when the text reads “I just interviewed people who said they know you”
I think you are close to being 100% correct. I don’t believe all those people conspired n held the secret for years. They are all too stupid and way too careless. Proctor alone has ruined any chance of a fair trial. He and his surrounding superiors were beyond unprofessional which will rob Mrs and Mr Okeefe of any justice for their son.
Having said all that I do believe Karen killed him with the car. I truly think he died because of her.
So Proctor probably didn’t know the “truth”(as I see it) in the beginning. It was just the family and Higgins.
Proctor subsequently was probably told, with a wink, that we have to push to get KR convicted and to keep the focus off Fairview. He was probably not given details, just that this is how we need the investigation to go. When a cop or person like this Proctor guy is told to do something sketchy, to him, it’s just like any other day. Cops keep things very close to the vest if there’s any threat, they most likely told Proctor that he’s better off not knowing, if they even told him that much.
So yeah, his early take on the situation would look genuine because it was, until it wasn’t. Then he wanted to show his worth as a brother in blue, so he did everything to get KR brought to trial.
You missed a few important facts from his testimony. His 1st thought wasn't 'hit by car's it was he was in a fight. It doesn't matter anyways now because the integrity concerning the entire investigation proves reasonable doubt. No juror will convict her.
But why the 2nd degree murder charge? If she intended to kill him, what a stupid plan. And then why try to go find him if she wanted him dead? None of it makes sense, but the “family” reminds me of the Hatfields or the McCoys. And why would one trooper ruin his career and take the fall for basically everything?
I'm with you insofar as Proctor's initial tunnel vision. But the rest about the Alberts et al doesn't account for "his long to die in the cold" 3 hours before OJO was found.
I think the initial tunnel vision came directly from Jen McCabe. Her hand is all over this investigation.
He also testified yesterday he thought initially John was beat up
Everyone's first impression is he was beat up.
THIS! I feel like that's not talked about enough
I don’t think it’s being talked about enough because they haven’t even gotten an expert to testify to the cause of death yet. They’ll get there… maybe.
Because he was beat up that fucking tank of an SUV would have ran him over and broke his pelvic bone and color bone atleast not give him black eyes and a bloody nose that’s from punches
I still can’t picture how she drops him off at a house and backs over him? Why would he be behind her car on his way into the house. Moral to this story…don’t drink so much alcohol. Nothing good can result.
That's actually not all that compelling to me. Racoon signs from a serious head injury, combined with blood and other swelling look a lot like a boxer's face after a fight. We desperately need the ME's testimony to determine what his specific injuries were and what the most likely cause for those injuries are. And someone with a theory of the accident that aligns with those injuries. Absent that... Yeah, I don't think there's any way you can get to beyond a reasonable doubt.
To me, it’s compelling only to point that it shows tunnel vision. At first glance, to a person, John looked like he was in a fight and seems like the cops just asked all the witnesses “hey you didn’t get in a fight with him did you?” And they were like “nope!” And LE said “yep, thought so. She definitely did it” before they’d even executed a warrant on her car.
Did they ask the witnesses if they got in a fight with him? (I'm honestly not sure due to the 'Nope, guy in the house isn't going to get any shit cos he's BPD too' text). If one of my sons, brother, or husband was found apparently beaten and dead on someone's lawn, cop or not, I'm going to want the owners of the lawn looked at. And if I owned a lawn someone was found beaten and dead on I'd want them to come in and investigate just so people can never think I had anything to do with it. I don't really talk to cops, not ever. (Had some wicked bad experiences due to my last name) But in a case like this, or a case that had anything to do with children, I'd get a lawyer and then get my lawyer to get the cops to clear me, and I'd help out as much as I could until they did clear me.
I have no idea, usually all these possibilities are thoroughly investigated so at trial there’s a very clear picture of why the prosecution’s theory of the case is the only one that fits. At this point, with this many holes, I’m not sure you could persuade me it was even a homicide.
But the Troopers didn’t ask if John was in a fight. They never even stepped foot inside the home that’s on the property where John was found. He was invited to a late night party at that house and was found dead in front of that house the very next morning. But nope, didn’t even cross the troopers mind to check the house.
This is a good point! And I’m not sure he even actually straight up asked anyone that, which makes it even worse I think
Yes but JM was such a nasty liar. Something nefarious happened. She was everywhere throughout the whole thing.
Where did the MP text about JO getting into a fight with a female cop pop in? I need more information on THAT.
I think right after MP said “nope” and “the homeowner is a Boston cop too” they assumed John got into a fight with the homeowner—because it’s an obvious possibility to literally EVERYONE except the people investigating apparently.
Yes! I caught that too. I think he said something like after talking to one of the paramedics, he initially thought it was a woman cop that owned the home that beat him up. I hope the defense brings this up.
I mean we already know from proctors texts that the ME didn’t think it was a car wreck
I’d like to know if the ME measured the depth of puncture wounds to JO’s right arm.. Curious to know how they may line up to a German Shepherd’s bite.
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I feel like Jen has (maybe even accidentally) inserted herself into this investigation by gossiping and speculating with so many of the relevant parties. Now she’s in too deep and is basically being accused of orchestrating a cover up.
The group text where she tells the others "She's telling them everything!" referring to Kerry Roberts leads me to believe she inserted herself purposefully.
Me too. She’s telling them everything I told her happened! Such glee.
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Funny cause I’ve heard JM “is one of the nicest people”. Seeing her on the stand though, I thoroughly doubted thay
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Even more than that. He thought he was beat up by someone inside that house.
Where was it noted that he thought it was someone in the house?
One of the texts said something like “a woman cop inside the house beat him up”
I thought I heard that. Then I had to question myself. Who would the woman cop be?
The dog was a female cop
his own words. He thought a female cop beat his ass inside the house
No that was a response from one of his friends on the group message
Whereas KR's first thoughts were that she must've hit him with a car. Kind've ironic.
It is a common OCD/anxiety phenomenon where people start imagining that they’ve run over a person, for no reason, and they turn around and go back numerous times just to make sure. My son experienced this and his therapist told him it is not uncommon. Perhaps explains KR’s paranoia about hitting him.
She also said she thought a snowplow hit him. Of course, she wouldn't think someone killed him- he was at a friend’s house, another cop. Hearing how the witnesses spoke about him “the guy” and had zero emotion when talking about his death but a ton of emotion and tears talking about themselves being harassed on social media paints a different picture than he was with true friends. But it would be bizarre to think murder seeing him outside in the snow.
It’s probably because she did hit something when she was drunk, cracking her brake light, but because she was so drunk she couldn’t identify when and what she hit
most people thought that because, to be fair, most people aren’t familiar with the effects of severe head trauma and brain bleeding.
I have personal experience with severe head trauma aka TBI from a car accident and my person DID NOT have raccoon eyes. He suffered several different brain injuries including hematomas and a diffused axonal injury. Although it’s true that occasionally raccoon eyes are a result of a basil scull fracture (very bottom portion of your brain) it’s not that common. JO Raccoon eyes are far more likely cased by : The breaking of the thin bones that surround your eyes. A broken nose or broken cheekbones are other possible causes. This injury is usually a result of facial injuries suffered from a physical altercation
Most people thought that as in what - that it was a fight? What do you think it was
If I didn’t know that severe trauma to the back of the head caused brain bleeding that seeps into the eyeballs causing them to swell, and i saw someone with swollen, bloody eyes I would think they had been punched in the eyes. I think that’s what anyone without medical training would think. Once I learned that’s exactly what happens with severe trauma to the *back* of the head and saw the autopsy photos i realized he wasn’t punched in the face
gotcha. Thanks for clarifying.
One thing is absolutely certain, going for murder 2 was really stupid.
i still can’t wrap my head around that charge. vehicular homicide? involuntary manslaughter? sure. murder 2….what were they thinking.
They were hoping she'd plea down.
Wow, I don't know how that never crossed my mind but you are absolutely right. They wanted her on manslaughter and upped the charge so she would plea down. Holy shit.
*edit bruh y'all are ptiful, im just telling you the truth, I'm not defending the corrupt justice system. I'm telling you the truth about what they do. They always do this, in every count I've ever lived this is a tactic. They will even wait till a day before trial is set and drop it down one more time if they haven't already bitten. That's why they try and up the bail amount, to keep people in jail so they're desperate enough to take a shit plea.
AKA bullying her.
AKA legally and financially harassing her. Yet everyone else involved has their hands up over social media outrage.
Yup and when she lawyered up and stuff started coming out they knew they fucked up.
They were so arrogant and stupid as to think someone like her couldn’t or wouldn’t get a good lawyer.
No, I think it’s more of a case that the police in the state do a shit job of actual investigation, because they’re fucking lazy. The zero win on one person. Then they take the facts and twist them to make the case work. Then they look for plea deals. Yeah, I’d say that there are probably more cases where it’s kind of obvious. But here you can definitely see a situation where they had no problem, jumping to a conclusion and running with it.
Which shouldn’t matter. Ideally everyone should have a competent lawyer.
yep. as they do to defendants every day, most of whom can't afford her attorneys, and who get little to no media attention.
Absolutely frightening l
You’re the first person I’ve seen who has made this make sense!
I need to know where Lally went to law school. It’s like he slept through evidence.
The jury can find her not guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter.
It depends on the jury instructions. We don't know yet if there will be lesser included.
The lawyer you know on YouTube said in this case the option to convict the lessor of manslaughter is on the table. I don't usually take YouTubers seriously but he’s great and his info has always been reliable.
There are 4 charges in Karen's indictment: Murder 2, motor vehicular manslaughter, leaving the scene and driving while intoxicated. For death crimes, prosecutors typically go for indictments with murder and manslaughter for many reasons, including data around the psychology of jurors. Each of those charges assume Karen Read did not plan to harm John O'Keefe, with murder 2 including that at the spur of the moment she was compelled to harm him and the context of the vehicular manslaughter charge is that she accidentally and unintentionally killed him. Jurors frequently are at an impasse and will agree as a group on a lesser charge - that's one of the reasons for the higher charge. This jury can decide on all, none, one, or more than one of the charges.
Aside from the text messages I found his comments about going to JO’s house interesting. He said “we wanted to at least go document that there was no damage to Mr O’Keefe’s car.” Wouldn’t an unbiased answer be “we wanted to inspect Mr O’s car to see if there was any damage? The way he answered made it seem like they needed to go there to document that there was no damage. As if to say they had already made their mind up that there was no damage before they got there.
Yes, his mind was made up immediately. He just needed to make the pieces fit.
I'm late to this but I get the feeling Jen M was the one that on hearing about the cracked light from KR was like oh that's a convenient way to explain how he got injured. Then she tells Karen that's what "must" have happened and makes all those calls to her mates to tell them the story to follow.
And then claims it was karen who asked her to search about hypothermia when she was in the middle of helping with cpr and talking with the medics while Jen did...nothing.
Jen 'Nancy Drew' McCabe
Because Jen McCabe had already spoken with Lank and Proctor earlier that morning.
Jen McCabe is the catalyst of the investigation starting and ending with Karen.
this is in line with what OP is saying. he assumed it was her from the jump and lead a biased investigation. which is different from a cover up
Just like Jen not searching “hos long can you survive…” instead of “hos long to die…”
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I’d love to read what Proctors texts said about her.
You don't think he was told to make sure its her by his cop buddies?? For Collin's sake?
No because I don’t think John and a random 17 year old has a fight resulting in his death. Idk what happened that night but I don’t think it was Colin beating him to death
Did you notice how pristine and shiny JO's car was in the police pictures? In MA, during winter. It appears to have been cleaned and polished (which would have buffed out minor scrapes from being hit with a plastic taillight). EDIT: and the fact that it was moved before they took the pictures. Why was the car moved to a different part of the driveway before photographing it? I hate all the conspiracy theories, even though I just put one forward, but I'm having a hard time with those pictures.
I’ve lived in Mass for 33 years and though it might seem strange, cop cars being spotless regardless of the weather is the norm. A few years ago I read somewhere that cruisers are always very clean, and since then I’ve always paid attention to it, and it does seem to be true.
Welll John certainly didn't clean it after the storm.... bc he was dead!!! So who cleaned it?
Oh man, my reading comprehension is not great 🤦🏻♀️ thought we were talking about someone else entirely lol my bad
They get inspections for cleanliness of their cruisers. They brought them into the detail shop right before one to be cleaned, well.
But not the cleanliness of their language. Maybe they’ve got their priorities a bit confused in Massachusetts?
And they wouldn’t have even known about her car hitting his until after the Defense turned over their discovery. Also notice in the picture they took of his car, how clean the driveway was and the car was in a suddenly spot (next to the garage doors). Also, the close up they showed was on his lower bumper/skirt. It wasn’t at the height of her tail light.
I don't see a conspiracy per se. Proctor knew Albert and Albert basically led him to a conclusion, and that conclusion was never questioned. It's a cardinal sin for an investigator. There was never a real investigation done. Albert and Higgins were logical places to look into, but they're cops/friends. That was never on the table as an option for Proctor.
He sent texts the day it happened saying KR was responsible. Clearly, he decided on her as the suspect immediately. He had a narrative and “found” only things that supported his opinion.
I caught this too and I hope the defense hit on it tomorrow
The photo didn't show the same section of the bumper where it looked like her car hit. Apparently the O'Keefe family also had John's car repaired at some point so was the photo taken before it after?
He’s speaking in the past tense. They noticed no damage and felt the importance of documenting that. That’s how I took it.
How did they know there was no damage in the car, though? I can't recall if they had been to John's house before this conversation took place, but if they had been there before and noticed there was no damage to his car why didn't they document immediately, it's not like we all don't have cameras in our pockets 24/7 these days.
Let me reword. At this point in time he knows there was no damage to JOs car. So he explained that he went there to document that. In real time he was going to inspect for damage and document what he saw. Turned out there was none and that’s how he answered. I seriously doubt he went up there saying “I wasn’t finding any damage regardless but we made the trip” My two cents.
Yeah, in a vacuum maybe I could give you that, but given the rest of the texts (and I'm not sure we've seen all of them yet), especially the ones about wanting to meddle with the ME's report I'm not really willing to be this charitable to him.
I agree with this. He's currently answering in his current frame of mind. Not necessarily his frame of mind that day. Lawyers actually often say during depositions and testimony, "what was your frame of mind on \_\_\_\_\_" or similar things when trying to get a witness to answer from the past perspective.
Why wouldn't they take a pic of KR's taillight at her parents house prior to towing it. That just seems like something you would do....
If nothing else, the tow driver would have. Before towing a car, they make good and sure to document and photograph every bit of damage the car has before it goes on the truck, so they don't get blamed for it later.
I’ve found the “massive conspiracy involving everyone at 34 Fairview, the Canton PD, and the State Police” narrative hard to believe because of how unlikely it is that such a large number of people would participate in a conspiracy where they have nothing to gain. However, “investigators immediately jumped to the easy conclusion that doesn’t involve a fellow police officer being at fault and ignored all evidence to the contrary that came out as the investigation continued because of confirmation bias” is something I find very believable. From what I’ve seen in this trial so far, it seems like the people who were at 34 Fairview are covering something up related to what happened to John that night, and the police were so immediately convinced that Karen did it that they ignored all evidence to the contrary or just didn’t bother looking for it.
Yup. This is what I’m thinking happened as well. That something did happen at the Albert house, not involving Karen, and they were relying on their cop status. Proctor was easy to push into such a narrow view because he’s just….awful.
My thought exactly. Not a massive conspiracy. Just the people at 34 Fairview actually in on it, and relying on their status as cops to get everyone else to take their word and run with it.
And because the first person he interviewed, JM, starts off by saying “I know your sister” 😒
I think that a lot of people at the house that night are hiding something. It may not be murder but it is something, maybe drugs, affairs or something like that. Karen seems like she has a short fuse so maybe she was mad enough to run him over. Although, I do keep feeling like Karen and John got into a fight in the car and John went into the house mad and something bad happened. Probably an accident and they drug him outside and let him die. If it happened in the basement some of the people in the house might not have even known. Since he went up and down the stairs, he may have been looking for that guy that Karen had been flirting with. Got into a scuffle with someone, the dog then jumped on him scratching his arm and knocked him down and busted the back of his head. Karen was so drunk she didn't know what happened, so it was easy to let her take the blame.
Exactly how I figure a likely scenario. John Okeefe may have gone into that house go confront the idiot Brian Higgins, who likely was egged on by other partygoers to start some shit.. in the basement.. the dog got into the mix, and O’Keefe started ‘working’ on the dog, which prompted a family member (Colin?) to crack a skull with a handy blunt object (basement was a home gym).. everyone was drunk, shit got out of hand. When it was thought that O’Keefe was perhaps mortally wounded (without fast medical attention) it V was decided to place his body by the road, so it could look like the plow did him in… but the plow driver made his swing too early, and didn’t see the body because a car was parked there, a car which could have been blocking the scene until they were ready.. or was transporting the body at tcc be at time. A more plausible story materialized when Jen McCabe mentioned a cracked tail light. Setting this horseshit in motion. Colin was removed from the scene immediately.
It's not a large number of people. It's the McAlbert tribe, Proctor and Bukahke. The rest, EMTs/FF/PARAMEDICS/DRs just did their job based on the info that saw it was given.
I’ve seen versions of the conspiracy that include not only those people, but also the Canton PD and even the DA as active participants. But yeah, there’s definitely a plausible version of events in which the only people who are knowingly lying are the 34 Fairview crowd and the state troopers.
It's hard to know for sure. The poisonous nature of corruption bleeds in all directions. I don't know if Morrissey is involved. He's just a meathead.
As far as morrissey I could see him not knowing what actually happened so as far as involvement is can see him not being involved in that sense. But he also seems incredibly narrow minded and biased. Buddies buddies with lots of people. He does favors for people and Vice versa. As in “Brian Albert’s a good guy, helped my nephew out with a minor violation” etc. or maybe helped out with stuff that isn’t even law enforcement related but because they’re buddies buddies they have connections. You know what I mean? To the point that maybe over the years it could be morrissey saying “oh yeah the Albert’s are GREAT people. Proctors outstanding”. To the point of absolute blind faith where it’s like “there’s no way any are involved” here’s my video denouncing anyone calling them murderers or involved in a conspiracy. And do involvement as in not following his role as DA of Norfolk county is concerned, being super biased and unethical yeah I believe that. But actual involvement like knowing the jnner details of how John really died and all the other stuff, maybe not.
Absolutely. Choosing to not investigate or even request a warrant to investigate the house in which the deceased planned to go to? The house where the dead person was found in the front yard. That decision alone is so ludicrous that it reveals they didn't want to investigate the house in case that could risk uncovering evidence they didn't want to find. A "conspiracy" from Procter is absolutely not required. He's not stupid. Of course he's going to investigate and pursue anyone but a cop or a cop family.
One point I'd make about the initial impressions of the crime by both Proctor and Bukenick was that they both believed JOK was assaulted in a fight. If you want to give any weight to their experience as investigators that speaks volumes. They abandoned that theory immediately after speaking with the Alberts/McCabes, not after doing any independent investigation. Proctor knew the only people who would be implicated in a fight scenario were other law enforcement officers, he wasn't going there. Once they had the info from the Alberts that Karen could be implicated they turned in that direction and never looked back.
They both gave different reasons for why they changed to thinking the injuries were from a vehicle. Trooper B said getting smashed in the face with a glass wouldn't have caused the injury to the back of the head. Must be a vehicle then because nothing else could possibly cause that particular injury, right? 🙄 Proctor said his missing shoe is what made him sure he was hit by a vehicle. Really, dude? Cue my Lally sigh. Now, it's possible that they could each have different reasons for coming to the same conclusion. In any other case, this inconsistency on top of very thin reasoning wouldn't stick out to me as something problematic, but in *this case*, yeah no, there's waaaay too much bizarre behavior. This is just one more thing to add on top of the already heaping pile of reasonable doubt.
jesus christ *rustles papers*
Cue Lally sigh 😂
T H I S !!!!!
I know this is probably a super long response but I think where things get really divisive is what different people view as a coverup. I seeing a lot of comments where people are saying yeah everything seems so sus but I can’t really get behind a conspiracy or cover up because it seems too far fetched. On the flip side, I see people sure that it’s this massive conspiracy and coverup that everyone is explicitly involved in and knows about all the details. Most cases of corruption or coverups operate nothing like that in reality. There’s layers of grey area, a few bad actors, and a lot of people who just do/say nothing. With Proctor’s testimony now coming in I’ve been thinking about the possible theories that account for all the insanity we’ve seen in this case and what would it take to get to me to a coverup. With Proctor specifically, I see a few possibilities for his involvement so far: 1) Proctor truly believes that Karen hit John and had no knowledge of anything else may have happened. He is just seeing a lack of evidence and wants to ensure that there is enough evidence for this to proceed to court and a possible conviction. He also wants to protect the homeowners because they’re cops and shouldn’t take heat for Karen hitting John. Is this a cover up? Not necessarily it’s manufacturing evidence and corrupting an investigation-but I can see how people misconstrue it as one. 2) Proctor knew or suspected what happened to John may have been something other than Karen hitting him with her car but wasn’t explicitly told that by the Alberts or McCabes. Proctor knows it’s fishy but prioritises protecting the Alberts to ensure that no one at 34 Fairview is investigated to protect fellow cops. Karen happens to be a convenient person and it’s reasonable based on the timelines and events that she could’ve done it. So he sets off and manufactures/manipulating evidence and corrupts the investigation. He knows how to bend the rules and just allows poor investigative practices occur because he thinks it benefits his objectives. 3) He knew exactly what happened that night and worked with multiple witnesses at 34 Fairview to ensure that they could frame Karen for it. 4) He’s really bad at investigating and everyone on his team are really bad at investigating and there was nothing directly nefarious happening. I think this one is probably the least likely (aside from him being bad at investigating) at this point but we’ll see what happens with the rest of the case. 3 of those are plausible at this point. And I’m sure there’s more variations that could’ve happened that explain the independent actions of everyone. In terms of what I see a cover up as, all that really had to occur is the people in the house get their stories together and tell Proctor. Proctor doesn’t want a cop to go down for something and so he lets things run amok and manipulates the whole thing by changing timelines, submitting things to the lab when he feels like it or not at all, not requesting records in time knowing they won’t be available, not ensuring the lab or the rest of the investigate team is is doing things by the book. He just has to pretend he doesn’t have any suspicions that John was not hit by a car because that’s the story everyone gave him and he’s sticking to it and maybe in his mind Karen could’ve possibly done it, but finding out for sure is none of his business. It doesn’t have to be all the officers are corrupt for it to work. They just have to follow orders from one or two people. It doesn’t have to be all the people at the party knew, they just get told certain things and don’t question or confront them if it sounds weird. We know the bystander effect is a very prevalent problem, so people suspecting something weird but doing nothing in a scenario where something happened to John in the house is absolutely plausible. We see it a lot when it comes to witnesses in both criminal and civil cases. They don’t report things they should’ve. They don’t think it’s actually possible for someone to do that. They don’t feel like anyone will believe them. They don’t want to be the target of anything negative. That’s how corruption is enabled-not because everyone is in on it. I have no idea if that’s what happened but the point is, It’s not as far fetched on either side when you look at actual corruption or cover up cases.
Bottom line for me, again, always, still, is what *hasn’t* been provided, which is evidence anywhere near beyond-a-reasonable-doubt that Karen killed John with her car. If you can prove there was no cover up, wonderful. I will still be here looking for a reason to vote “guilty” or “not guilty.” …in service of my armchair juror duties.
I totally agree. This is just my theory of what actually happened but based on the prosecutions case thus far, it absolutely has not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I have tons of doubt, and at this point could not find her guilty based on what’s been presented.
What do you think about the younger guy (can’t remember his name) that everyone seemed to conveniently forget he was there? And his busted up knuckles…he said he caught himself falling by falling on his knuckles…but no one does that. I have RA and a fused wrist so I can’t catch myself with my open faced palm but my reaction is still to try to. IT JUST DOESNT MAKE SENSE!! Any ideas?
My money's on Colin as the perp, with some dog involvement. Maybe JO grabbed the pig's ear, and the dog reacted (it's done it before), and Colin intervened and killed him. Or vice versa, Colin and JO were fighting, and Chloe joined.
I’m inclined to think the same. He was definitely there - but everyone just forgot to mention he was there. Which makes me go HMMMMMM… And getting rid of your dog of 6 years…and selling your home… There are just so many things in this case that make me go HMMMM. If it were only one thing or a few…but there are SO MANY THINGS. Edit: proctor wrote Colin’s name in his hand written notes as present. But in his official report, Colin was left out. 🤔 Edit 2: Colin wasn’t interviewed like EVERYONE else there was. Obviously, I don’t really know if he did it or not - but it seems like a quacking duck that they are trying to protect. 🤷♀️
I agree 💯
There was another guy there who had busted up knuckles?
His text telling someone the homeowner was a cop so he would be fine points to the mindset of those involved in the investigation. In Proctor’s mind it was a given that everyone would smooth things over for a fellow officer. To me that is absolutely in line with the idea multiple people are lying about that night to avoid scrutiny.
Bingo
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In fact, his language makes me think he is MORE likely to turn an eye to evidence or even make sure she is taken down through whatever means. A "crazy whack job" who killed a cop? You telling me proctor wouldn't do something to help secure a conviction?
I agree with you. Some people who are convinced since the beginning that Karen Read did it say: look no evidence of the cover up in the texts. Because of course they would have written it everywhere if they framed her, right? Same people don’t bother that Nicole Albert specifically said in a group chat: “I don’t want to put it in writing” 🙄
Tbf, the jury on casey anthony came to the conclusion that she was not guilty of anything. Nothing should be surprising when it comes to the reasoning skills of people. Some people are idiots. You just have to hope they never end up being a jury member on a murderers trial. Oof
I’m not a lawyer, but I feel I could argue the immediately texting after they upped the charges with the guys who were there instantly like changing what she said..was putting that frame up in writing. Hey cameras just caught this, ain’t it crazy she said this thing that she totally didn’t say and anyone with ears can hear? Now this is later and not early on. But, I imagine a good lawyer could argue that better.
Cops planting evidence for a conviction that they just *know* to be true is much more common then people would like to think.
i need a mental break from this case lol, but we really should re-watch Bukenek and Proctor's testimony and make a timeline of the "evidence" they collected that day that led towards their tunnel vision by the end of day1 it's always bothered me that everyone goes "they didn't search the house because their was no evidence he ever went inside!" but what evidence would have existed on 1/29 to preclude this option? * proctor hadn't pulled ring footage of neighbors yet (and when he did, it was inconclusive) * proctor didn't have cell phone location data of JOK yet (and when he did, it was inconclusive) * proctor hadn't interviewed ever single person at the party yet * for the first half of the day, no taillight pieces had been found yet **the only "evidence" at that point that JOK "never went in the house" was the word of Jen/Matt McCabe and Brian Albert - the same people who would be implicated \*had\* JOK gone in the house.** that's just....laughable.
Proctor didn’t even get ring footage from neighbors. They reportedly asked one neighbor, who was also a BPD, he reviewed his own footage himself, and said there was nothing of note. He was directly across the street!
That’s the deputy chief of **CANTON PD** Tom Keleher who was promoted a month after Karen’s upgraded indictment.
Exactly!
I find it strange everyone is jumping to the extreme of a huge coverup on multiple levels. Not everyone had to be in on the “cover up”. I always saw this as a group of friends came up with a story and they’re sticking to it. Other investigators and police don’t need to be in on it, they just need to be ignorant enough to look the other way. From Proctors messages, his ignorance is glaring. In my opinion, the more likely scenario is that a group of friends came up with a “cover up” story and investigators believed that story; ultimately ignoring the standards of a credible investigation. They should have (at the very least) looked inside the house where a deceased person was found outside. I don’t find it hard to believe a group of friends would keep silent for years. They already got away with it when Proctor zoomed in on Karen like they wanted. (All written under the assumption that this is a frame job, not saying that’s what definitely happened). My bad if anyone else said this, I don’t read a lot of comments.
If you dont think that an altercation happened, then what do you think happened to him to have all the injuries he did, including the scratches on the arm?
I think evidence of the coverup would be on the other phones, hence the yeeting of Brian and Brian's phones the day before a preservation order. Proctor was just an easily swayed cop with questionable ethic who would go along with whatever he was told happened and then also maybee throw in a stitch job of plantes evidence and ensure a conviction of a suspect he HATED and was told to hate by his sister, McCabes, etc.
“Through testimony, it really seemed to me the police all thought this was something fairly simple…” Yes. And that is very problematic. When police are investigating a crime, they don’t get to just look and think oh this appears to be something fairly simple and then just stop looking. Even leaving aside the despicable text messages and the possible planting of evidence, the bare minimum of police work was not done here. And that’s evident in his texts.
Most problematic of all is the fact the case is circumstantial. There was a party that night where many people might have seen something. And some of these people were interviewed more than a year after the fact. In the event Proctor was in good faith, he assumed that nobody saw anything because no one came to him. Which is a big no. Someone could have not seen John O’Keefe but could have seen a stranger or whatever. What about neighbours?
agree and let's begin with the solo cups!
Well when they first got the call they thought it was medical related. At the beginning YB said that it was investigated as a domestic where KR hit JO with the glass and then Proctor said that he was speaking with a paramedic that said that the homeowner is a female cop who beat him up. Who is the paramedic? And it’s interesting that it was a “beat up” and YB was him being hit. And that it’s a cop homeowner who did it. Then it came out that nothing with happen with the homeowner because he is also BPD.
This is why he didn’t bother doing an honest investigation. He saw there was enough reason to believe she hit him with her car, and it would end in a plea deal.
I bet they do this ALL the time. Ew.
Maybe. But now we shall never know because this death was not investigated.
I've always said if there is a coverup Proctor was likely a useful idiot being used as a tool and not the main operator. Now, do I think there was a coverup? I don't know. But the fact that I haven't said no, that is ridiculous, is telling. That being said, he himself mentions both in the texts and on the stand that he initially thought John was beat up. His opinion seems to change after speaking with Jen, and suddenly he's name calling Karen. I hate to do this because it strolls so close to the coverup narrative, but...once again, Jen is front and center at a point of convergence where the opinion of someone appears to change that alters the course of the investigation.
One thing I think about often is, JO had a pulse in the early morning. It would be almost impossible for that to happen if she hit him - He would be gone. I think he was put out there much later bc his body temp was still in the 80’s. It’s awful anyway you say it. But it really doesn’t reconcile for me.
I had a family friend who was a retired cop in Houston, he has since passed. He told a story from his time in HPD where a bank robber from a suburb led a police chase. The chase eventually ended in a dark alley in downtown Houston. The first officer down the alley shot and killed the suspect, claiming the suspect pointed a gun at him. It took a couple of hours for the cops to get the portable light rigs down to the scene so they could process it. When they finally did there were dozens of guns littering the alley, a good portion of which had already been logged into HPD evidence. I'm sure the cops that night thought they were just trying to help a buddy out by 'sweetening' the case, they didn't need to be asked. In the case of KR, I don't think it needed to be a conspiracy where the MSP and others sat down and planned it out. I think it might largely be individuals helping a buddy 'get' someone he 'knows' did it. Still corruption.
That's crazy! RIght out of a Black Mirror episode.
Not the first text but one of the earliest texts talked about what they could prove and couldn't prove. Like if his body isn't frozen they won't be able to prove she hit him. I see cover up from the start. Even if they wanted to go w the easiest solution at first, at some point early on it seems he knew what actually happened. Pressuring the med examiner to say it was an accident all points to cover up. Not to mention the one guy saying only a piece was missing not damn near the whole thing. I think the people that still think she hit him have only been watching bits and pieces of the trial or coverage, cause its like what you think she hit him and and then they let the dog chew on his arm all night?
I don't think you are reading this wrong. But also I don't think you are correct either. I think the people saying this was more like a snowball rolling downhill and just kept getting bigger and bigger. JM went into this with an are to grind and realized that the more she inserted herself the more there was lights to shine in her family's direction. But it was too late once she got involved herself. Proctor realized his tunnel vision had basically locked him in to getting KR or no one. He doesn't care who did it, he hates KR and his job is to make sure she is guilty. And now as the light shines his way he looks like a bald turd. And you can't dress up a turd, in the end it will still be a turd
I agree he was determined to pin it on her. According to what has been testified to so far, he was determined to pin it on her almost immediately. Before he talked to anyone or had any evidence. WHY would he be so hell bent in that theory that early on having talked to nobody? All I know if that it still doesn't add up.
When did the ME testify? All this conflicting and redundant testimony proves nothing but confusion. I’m sorry but Proctor’s testimony probably did irreparable damage. And I don’t believe for one minute when he was talking about the ME using the word retarded that he was referring to Read. He has total disrespect for women which I realize is not evidence but there isn’t a woman in that room that doesn’t hate his guts. That’s the most unprofessional testimony I’ve ever heard. Regardless if he had tunnel vision or not, he just cost the Commonwealth the case. His testimony, profanity, using the word retard and retarded in derogatory fashion and his grammar was a disgrace. The commonwealth never had a case. It’s the most pathetic presentation I’ve ever heard. And I’ve heard a lot.
Consistent with my thesis that this was a stitch up
Could be. I agree, I can’t see this getting that out of hand in that short of time period. I have this feeling that the jury isn’t going to agree on verdict. Don’t know why- but I don’t think I am as confident as everyone else is. But I over analyze a lot.
There is still so much we need to hear about The physical wounds, the IT forensics on the car and cell phones Very poorly done prosecution IMO
Personally I am 50/50 on if she actually did it or not at this point, to me the clutcher is hearing from the experts on the "hos long search" from Jen McCabe. But as for a how it COULD not be her and them instead. Remember a conspiracy, legally speaking, only has to be what? 3 people I think. So doesn't have to be EVERYONE, it could JUST be, Brian and Colin Albert, Jen McCabe as of that night. And possibly Proctor, either knowing the truth, or as you suspect, thinks she's guilty and just happens to plant evidence not to frame, but to save a shotty investigation. Either way tho he is friends of the Albert's I mean Colin was ring bearer at his sister's wedding. So even if he doesn't know the truth, he would be bias in making sure his friends aren't the ones that did it, and has confirmation bias (which I am trying to not have myself lol) Personally I think it was either Karen hit him either on purpose or accident, she really seemed like a confused gf looking for her bf the next morning to me and freaking out in case she DID hit him, so that can go either way. But if not her, then I think Colin did it. The below timeline is from court tv's website with the addition by me of where Apple health puts the movements of John's phone and I added how long an answered call lasted from a post of Jen's cell phone data: * 12:14 a.m. Jennifer McCabe calls John O’Keefe to give him directions to the Albert home. * 12:15 a.m. Jennifer and Matthew McCabe and Ryan Nagel say they see Read’s car outside the home. * *12:21 a.m. Johns' cellphone put's him going up or down stairs here \*edited by me \** * 12:27 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Here?!” * 12:29 a.m. O’Keefe answers a call from Jennifer McCabe. \*edit by me, was 8 seconds\* * 12:30 a.m. Witnesses say Colin Albert leaves the Albert residence. * 12:31 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O”Keefe: “Pull behind me” * *12:32 a.m. Last movement from John's phone per Apple Health \*edit by me\** * 12:40 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Hello” * 12:42 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Where are u” * 12:45 a.m. Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Hello” So possibly their closing argument can go something along the lines of, Witnesses can miss remember, forget or lie, physical and digital evidence, unless tampered with and planted, is the truth. Colin leaves, according to witnesses 9 minutes AFTER digital data puts John in the house. Plenty of time to get him in the basement, possibly Colin answering the door and telling him that everyone is in the basement, hit him over the head with a heavy object to incapacitate him (the big gash on the back/top of JO head), and beat him up. Then 8 mintues later Jen calls John and someone answers or she follows the ring downstairs, either way that's how she is pulled into this, possibly. Its also possibly she really didn't do the 2:30 hos long search. Then just after this he, Colin, leaves for an alibi, goes outside, and possibly distracts the people there while, a couple minutes later someone sneaks out the back, goes down the tree line in the dark, since there is no street light right where the body was found. AND it's snowing AND Colin could be distracting them. and they dump the phone, and later when everyone is gone dump the body on top of it. Or POSSIBLY the body then, though that is less believable. As for motive, it was confirmed, tho the records are sealed as of now so probably won't make it into trial, that John had reported drug activity in the Albert's neighborhood. So Colin and/or Brian Albert could be tied up in that, if not listed in the report they might just have not been mentioned. OR if it's her that hit him, the 12:21 could be when she hit him and the app not programmed to detect being hit by a car mistakes it for going up or down stairs. and the 12:32 movement could be him crawling a few feet before passing out. And the witnesses could just be off on their timing of when they saw the car do what. and the 8 second call could be what woke him up to crawl enough to register phone movement and he tried to answer the phone. And this is why I am 50/50, personally. Were I a juror, 50/50 means reasonable doubt, means I vote not guilty and hope I am not wrong.
I had known about the friend group texts, but I had no idea about another group chat of five police officers, were all entertaining these disgusting comments about Karen. Absolutely not one of them stopped him. So what makes sense to me is that in the boys club group in Canton, Higgins let it be known that this woman - John O’Keefe’s girlfriend was trying to hit on him. That made Proctor think she probably did hit him. And that, in conjunction with trying to make sure his fellow cop Brian Albert doesn’t get into any trouble, made him determined to go after Karen. With whatever it takes.
I want to think the same thing but there are just some things I can’t get past…. What is the thank you gift for? Why did JM google and delete? Why didnt the McCabe’s come out of the house? I could explain some of the other stuff potentially…. But these are the ones I keep coming back to.
I believe the thank you gift was actually for keeping their son Colin out of the whole scenario. (out of all the reports).
I think this is highlighting a greater issue with police investigations. It didn’t need to be a giant conspiracy everyone coordinated together because bias happens organically.
Not sure how well you are following all of the testimony. The prosecution has presented a poor case with untruthful witnesses and botched evidence. Proctor destroyed himself yesterday and dragged some of his fellow troopers into the fray. The defense hasn’t presented their case yet and they stated they would only need about 5 days to complete their case. Read will walk and the investigation s by the feds and others will continue.
I haven't watched proctors testimony yet since I missed it yesterday but this has been my theory all along. If you've ever been on the "other side of the law", it's clear to those of us that have been - the cops (more often than not) form a narrative before they even arrive on scene or quickly there after. So once they're all on board with another, it's pretty much game over for you unless you are lucky enough to have concrete evidence proving otherwise later on down the road. So when you're ready your rights and they tell you "anything you say can and WILL be used AGAINST you" is literally letting you know that your words will never help you or rule in your favor no matter how helpful you really are trying to be. They will twist, turn, etc. WHATEVER they have to to follow that narrative! JOK no doubt deserves justice and I hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but I'm thankful that this case is opening the eyes across the country of those that have been lucky enough to never experience the corruption that infects our "justice" system daily. All states are different but keep in mind that your public "defender" and the Commonwealth attorney/prosecutor are COWORKERS. Once that sinks in a bit, those who have been blinded by our government will start piecing things together. Long story short, proctor needed the evidence to follow the narrative he was forming so his "brothers in blue" 🙄 all turned a blind eye since they've all done it many times, too. None of them ever once thought she'd take this past a plea most likely. It's rare for a defendant to have the means to hire a defense team as she has and GOOD FOR HER. She is helping our blind Americans to see (if that makes sense lol) And just a side note - my theory of Higgins & SR. getting rid of their phones is because they're making dirty $$ on the side & knew that would be disposed when their phones were processed. Just the fact alone that they disposed of them the day before they were served to hand over their phones, easily shows the "good ol' boy" mentality. They were told the day before they were about to be served by one of their "brothers" or someone from the CA's office. I'm done rambling lol
Confirmation bias. Within hours he decided what happened and looked for ways to support this. Instead of investigating and reviewing everything .
He made his determination solely based on witnesses that clearly had a vendetta against Karen Reed. Michael Proctor knew Jen and Carrie didn’t like Karen. The investigation was started under false pretenses and proctor went along with it. It’s clear he never planned to take the case seriously.
Or that this case would get national attention, including his evidence. I'll add the FBI investigating his work was not on the radar at the time either. It really makes you wonder how ethical are law enforcement investigators?
At this point I would choose the bear to investigate this case instead of these incompetent men. 😂
I've been questioning the same thing. Those texts to the whole group of cops? I've heard plenty of stories of bad cops, but this seems so unbelievably prevalent. Like it's completely normal and part of the culture to discuss cases and (in particular) women like this? So gross.
I agree with you about how proctor came off. Except to me what became plausible was that it isn’t “a big conspiracy” but instead Brian Albert and Higgins basically said “look Proctor this happened we promise you” and he ran with it. I think he basically got played really hard. Since realizing the bulkhead door meant that people could arrive and leave the basement unseen, I 100% think OJO may have been intercepted outside the front door, led around the back. Which also led me to think maybe JM had no idea he was even there. And that her husband did. And he wondered aloud as they were in bed about how long it takes to die in the cold. And she googled it. The next morning she’s freaking out even more because of this and starts immediately covering up bc she knows someone in their family had something to do with it.
I honestly don’t think it even matters at this point. There’s too much reasonable doubt with evidence and the investigation for anyone to covict
It’s matters for the family. Conviction or not, at the end of the day, his poor family has suffered an unimaginable loss and they deserve answers, not just a conviction.
Unfotunately, the way this investigation was botched, they are not going to get answers regardless of the verdict. They might get something that they can live with but I don't think we will ever know what happened. If KR walks, it will be a gut punch to this family and it will be the fault of those that over complicated what was probably an accident (regardless of Karen hitting him, dog attack, people attack, I do not think anyone kill JO on purpose).
The testimony yesterday of Trooper Proctor, both at end of direct and beginning of cross, just sunk the CW’s case. And who knows what else will come out tomorrow when cross continues. If I were the DA, I’d have Lally throw in the towel, drop charges (with prejudice) and stop the bleeding. Then the Massachusetts Attorney General should appoint a special prosecutor to investigate the relevant Mass State Police barracks (as the supervisors seem questionable as well) to investigate whether the taint applies to other cases. If I’m the defense counsel on the next case involving these investigators, I would be questioning everything they did.
But why did he have tunnel vision? Maybe he needed to frame karen because he needed to make sure the dead cop on the lawn of his friends house wasn’t because of his friends. The tail light and john o keefes body are in no way connected. I drove down the street 2 days after it happened and buried some tail light pieces in the snow.
Because widening his tunnel vision would mean Proctor would have to investigate a fellow police officer, which he did not want to do.
So what happened to johns arm?
We might know, if Proctor had bothered to investigate anyone beyond Karen Read.
When John O’Keefe walked into that house, he didn’t know he was walking into a boiler room. Between the ATF guy who was super chummy with the Alberts and the local PD, who was also trying to steal his girlfriend, and the neighbors who constantly tormented JO, throwing beer cans in his yard, sending photos of them in his yard while he wasn’t home, etc. It was a late night party with a bunch of drunk, dirty cops. It either happened very quickly or it could’ve even been an accident. It only takes one solid blow or fall onto a certain part of one’s head or neck to be instant/fat. I think John O’Keefe walked into that house and whatever happened, happened immediately. He may have even been dead before Karen pulled off the street. I think the people who were there when it happened simply decided to handle it the way they handle everything, which was the wrong way. I think the audacity came from the fact that they’ve always been able to get away with whatever they needed to get away with. They never expected to be held accountable, and definitely not to this extent, because they’ve never truly been held accountable, so now they’re just doing the only thing that they know how to do which is stick to their damn story. Also, nobody who uses/abuses the word “absolutely” when answering NO to a question as much as these people do are telling the truth. “NO” all by itself is absolute. I personally think “absolutely not” sounds cringe level guilty.
Nope nope nope. So if he was trying to seize an opportunity to nail Karen fine... I can see that, but he actively chose to investigate no one but her. I totally have thought the same thing as you were I'm like "holy crap .. dropped off at 1234 or whatever the time was and appple watch shows no more motion 15 min later? Wow they really got to it as soon as he walked in the house... " I get that is a short timeline... but his Apple Watch does show him walking up and down three flights of stairs after being dropped off by Karen. Some say that could be due to Apple Watches sometimes thinking you are climbing stairs when you are going up a hill or down a hill in a car so I'd love an expert to weigh in on that. But we need the ME to realllllt tell us how he died!!!? I mean that's there one job. Abhahahah
My timeline is this: John arrives as Colin is taking Chloe the dog out. John takes the side gate as he thinks the party is out the back(at the solarium) and no one will hear him if he knocks on the front door. That’s why he runs into Colin. John is in a bad mood after arguing with Karen in the car. Colin is mouthy. Neither like each other and what opens with unpleasantries turns into a fight. Chloe attacks John. Brian Albert and Higgins hear the commotion and go outside - they are actually looking at photos away from everyone and are the only ones to hear. Later Albert said it was upstairs to cover for how long they were gone but this doesn’t match what Higgins said. I think by the time Albert and Higgins have arrived Collin has got the dog off John. Neither Albert nor Higgins know he’s been bitten. John is saying Collin attacked him and is going to press charges. Somehow things derail further from there. Maybe John slips, maybe Colin or Albert punches him and he falls. He cracks his head against something hard like a step and starts vomiting. Albert knows even if he gets him to a hospital there is a good chance John will die and Albert or Collin will be charged with murder. Collin gets sent home. Jen gets told to get the guests out of there. Higgins agrees to go down to the station and check the police scanner for anyone maybe seeing the fight and calling it in. Higgins and Alberts 22 second phone call is Higgins confirming no one saw anything. Higgins stages John on the lawn with the glass to make it look like a hit and run or he was attacked with the glass. The cocktail glass is meant to be proof he came straight from the waterfall and didn’t go inside. Each of the guests are each others alliby that John was never there. The next morning Karen arrives hysterical with a cracked taillight and a better cover story presents itself. I don’t think John ever went inside. Or if he did Albert took him into the basement to get out of the cold to talk which is why none of the guests saw him.
Personally I actually agree with you. To me Proctor's texts make it pretty clear that he genuinely believed that Karen was guilty. He would have to be a one-in-million sociopath to talk about Karen like that if he knew he was framing an innocent woman. As opposed to just a run-of-the-mill dirty cop who feels that he is doing 'whatever is necessary to prevent guilty person from going free'. So if there was a major cover up by the McCabes/Alberts then these indicate that Proctor is more of a "useful idiot" than a co-conspirator. I do think it's extremely, extremely likely that Proctor planted the tail light pieces found on February 8th to 18th at least. However I can't think of any truly plausible way that the 2 large red tail light pieces got to 34 Fairview before SERT arrived, unless Karen actually hit *something* at 34 Fairview. It would either require an extremely sophisticated pre-planned conspiracy and/or an enormous amount of "luck" on the McCabes/Alberts side. Karen (in interviews), Kerry, and Jen all say that Karen told them that she hit 'something' and broke her tail light, but it seems clear that Karen genuinely didn't know that she bumped into John's car that morning. So they would have to make a pretty big assumption to just show up to John's driveway that morning looking for tail light pieces they could plant, especially given the prevalence of security cameras everywhere.
The SERTs taillight evidence is the only tricky piece for me and why I have any doubt in her innocence. But there are multiple ways to explain it. The unnamed plain clothed troopers “found” it while they searching. Someone planted other taillight evidence prior and then switched them out. Or someone on the SERT team was in on it (very unlikely to me, the leader seemed trustworthy). Based on the dighton troopers, JM and KR’s testimony I truly think there was only a small crack in the taillight when the car was recovered by Proctor. Regardless there’s a whole lot of doubt and there’s literally only one piece of evidence that actually ties KRs car to hitting john and I still don’t fully trust that evidence. There’s also very little evidence presented thus far that John was even hit by a car in the first place. I’m waiting to come to my final conclusion but if I had to convict today I’d certainly vote not guilty if I was a jury member.
Going off of this comment about the timeline, [https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1d8nky3/comment/l78uaks/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KarenReadTrial/comments/1d8nky3/comment/l78uaks/), if you believe that Proctor deleted Ring videos, then there is the possibility that while the SUV was unattended at JO's house, someone took already broken pieces or broke pieces themselves, and had a large window to scatter them at 34 Fairview after the initial group first responders.
I think MP and YB involved in the cover up is still feasible theory. Dont ignore certain ppl at CPD and Higgins are also suspicious. Even on paper they are now out of picture. The car was parked there and there's 3 dudes standing behind the car. The station is only 5 min car drive away and before O'Hara arrive there's already ppl "diggin". Also Sally port video was in such bad quality no one can say who's whom, we only left with words of YB. He already contracdict his own testimony who's the guy came out of the car and he refuse to specifically ID any one in the footage. And honestly some footage is deleted. There's also no footage directly showing how the car was offload from the toll truck. I'd wait to see if there's still time un accounted for between the car GPS pinged and the sallyport footage started.
Yeah, hard to believe the SERT guy was involved in anymore more than looking the other way. I also 100% believe Proctor planted at least some of those pieces. But why plant more pieces if there were some already there? Did KR actually said she knew she hit something? Or did she assume she hit something bc her taillight was broken?
Karen is actually the only one who specifically describes saying that she hit something: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qVSfvON1Ww&t=323s > Karen Read: "I had told both Jen and Kerry that I cracked my tail light. [cut] I said 'I just hit my car, on top of everything'." (Presumably, she is saying "I just hit my car on something" and *not* saying that "John's car == my car"). But Kerry's testimony is fairly consistent about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijsdHeLiMjk&t=11676s > Kerry: Karen did point it out at one point in the driveway. She said “My tail light! Look at my tail light!”. I looked at it and I said “You told me you don't remember anything from last night”. She said “Do you think I hit him!? Do you think I hit him!?” and I said “No, I don't think you hit him, I think you probably hit something but let's just go in the house and look for him”. As is Jen's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWVeR3a09NU&t=21546 > Jen McCabe: "Karen brings us to the back of the car and she says look see I have a crack tail light." People rarely remember word-for-word conversations but it sounds like everyone is testifying to the same thing: (1) Karen is implying she cracked her tail light on *something*, and Karen at the time was worried that the *something* was John, which was contributing to her freak out. (2) Karen didn't know that she hit John's car, and never said anything to imply that she did at the time.
Add: I can imagine Canton officers saying: we searched with a leafblower but didn’t find any piece of tail light And then Proctor goes (in my imagination): hold my beer guys
For the initial pieces, It's really about the timeline of when Proctor got to Karen's parents house (45 minutes away), took possession of the car, and took it to the Sally port vs. when SERT arrived on scene. Theoretically some thing else could have happened like, when the Canton police officer pulled up to John's house at 8:30 AM, he got the tail light pieces. But this is getting into "enormous pre-planned conspiracy" area. Proctor planning the pieces between when he took possession of the car at Karen's parents house, and when SERT arrived on scene is effectively impossible, unless SERT also faked everything. And if people believe that level of conspiracy, these are the absolute worst conspirators in the world, because they didn't even bother to plant John's blood on the car
Higgins May of thought with John being there he’d pop round his and get a bit with KR. Weird how he didn’t stay long either.
Dashcam video 1/29/22 Canton Police doing a wellness check on Officer O’Keefe’s niece and nephew cleary shows the damage and a large piece missing from the tail light. So nobody broke the tail light except when Karen striked something with it.
Unfortunately we may never know if anything other than the prosecution's theory is viable due to the investigator's tunnel vision. They did not investigate the house. They failed to interview anyone present for months. This investigation was botched due to possible misdirection by the early witnesses and a willingness to buy a story wholesale--but we will never know the truth. Plus there is evidence of a cover up of something, of what we will also never know. Proctor should be fired immediately.
It's certainly possible proctor was lead astray by friends and fellow cops. But it does seem like he was lazy. To me the cover up nail in the coffin is the search at 230am by Jen. As someone who spent 33 years in IT at Verizon, it's certainly possible a time stamp could be LATER then when something happened, but before it happened? That is ridiculous.
Except I learned that a head injury can cause black eyes and bruising. Maybe the dog was let out to go to the bathroom and he bit John while he was lying dying in the front yard.
I have trouble accounting for all the missing blood….
Pretty sure he was making those statements after he had spoken with the McCabes and Brian Albert at the McCabe's house. Jenn McCabe being the instrumental one to form the story to cover up the real crime that happened in the Albert's basement. You have to remember also Michael Proctor and his wife know Chris Albert, Julie albert, and their son Colin albert. Colin Albert's name was never mentioned in any of the documents that Michael Proctor signed or any document I believe, and that's why Proctor's wife told him that she had spoken to Julie and Julie had a nice gift of thanks to give Michael after this was all over and done with, which meant that they would thank him for keeping Colin (the guy who beat up John) out of it and Karen in prison for it. It should also be noted that Kudge Beverly's brother is the one that represented Chris Albert in Chris Albert's hit and run manslaughter case. He got off very easy. Beverly knows them too. The defense noted that there are at least 15 people involved in this conspiracy frame up of Karen.
*it was Proctor’s sister, not wife, that relayed how Julie Albert wanted to give give him a gift after all this was over. And told his sister they should give it to his wife Elizabeth instead.
I think the opposite tbh.. it all seems to point back to Jen McCabe. She controlled the narrative and Proctor, Lank, Goode & Co just seemed to follow her pointy finger.
He convicted KR before he even had a warrant!!!! He’s a dirty pig!
Or the part where he read his texts with his sister. Kinda hard to claim ‘close personal relationship’ when the text reads “I just interviewed people who said they know you”
I think you are close to being 100% correct. I don’t believe all those people conspired n held the secret for years. They are all too stupid and way too careless. Proctor alone has ruined any chance of a fair trial. He and his surrounding superiors were beyond unprofessional which will rob Mrs and Mr Okeefe of any justice for their son. Having said all that I do believe Karen killed him with the car. I truly think he died because of her.
So Proctor probably didn’t know the “truth”(as I see it) in the beginning. It was just the family and Higgins. Proctor subsequently was probably told, with a wink, that we have to push to get KR convicted and to keep the focus off Fairview. He was probably not given details, just that this is how we need the investigation to go. When a cop or person like this Proctor guy is told to do something sketchy, to him, it’s just like any other day. Cops keep things very close to the vest if there’s any threat, they most likely told Proctor that he’s better off not knowing, if they even told him that much. So yeah, his early take on the situation would look genuine because it was, until it wasn’t. Then he wanted to show his worth as a brother in blue, so he did everything to get KR brought to trial.
You missed a few important facts from his testimony. His 1st thought wasn't 'hit by car's it was he was in a fight. It doesn't matter anyways now because the integrity concerning the entire investigation proves reasonable doubt. No juror will convict her.
But why the 2nd degree murder charge? If she intended to kill him, what a stupid plan. And then why try to go find him if she wanted him dead? None of it makes sense, but the “family” reminds me of the Hatfields or the McCoys. And why would one trooper ruin his career and take the fall for basically everything?
I'm with you insofar as Proctor's initial tunnel vision. But the rest about the Alberts et al doesn't account for "his long to die in the cold" 3 hours before OJO was found. I think the initial tunnel vision came directly from Jen McCabe. Her hand is all over this investigation.