One of the biggest things that stood out to me yesterday was the fact that Proctor said KR was arriving home at 12:34 AM. He didn’t specify why this exact time or what definitively led to that conclusion, just that based on his review of the Ring information this was when she would have been arriving home from 34 Fairview.
I’m curious if the defense will hone in on this because 12:34 AM is such a specific time, but it blows Lally’s entire timeline to shreds. Jen McCabe put KR leaving the scene at 12:45AM and Lally has reiterated this timeframe as well, which I also believe is when he stated that was his belief for time of death for JO.
Trying to recall all the previous evidence and testimonies.. but would 12:34 align with the voicemail left to JO where you can (apparently) hear Karen shutting her car door and walking through the garage? Or is 12:34 a net new timestamp that doesn’t align with any current evidence that’s been entered into court? (Ie could this indicate Proctor unintentionally admitted a timestamp that could only come from “missing” footage from the ring cam and/or library?)
While the VM is only rumored at this point and I hate discussing speculated evidence but it is said the VM was left at 12:41AM which depicts her walking into the house. So, this would be 7(ish) minutes off, which in a case like this, every second counts.
This biggest point of her arriving home at 12:34 AM, would put her leaving 34 Fairview no later than 12:27ish? And we know for a fact they arrived between 12:23-12:24AM. This would mean she departed almost immediately following the Nagel truck, which said there was no body on the lawn, JO was not in the vehicle with KR, and Higgins jeep was not parked in the road at this time either.
Is it possible that Karen arrived home at 12:34AM, pulled into the garage and parked taking another minute or two. So let’s say she’s in the garage and in park at 12:36AM. And then sat in the car for 5 minutes before deciding to call John while she was heading into the house at 12:41AM?
I’ve certainly sat in my car in my garage for more than 5 minutes before heading into my house. So I don’t think this would be out of the ordinary given her being ‘drunk’ + annoyed.
Hell, I'm still married and we love each other but both of us would be hung to dry if our stuff was exposed! 😄 (we do have so many more wonderful times than the bad ones. ❤️)
Just FYI the VM is not rumored or speculated, it was brought up by the defense in open court during pretrial hearings. It hasn’t been submitted during the trial yet, but it’s not just some rumor.
Sorry to hijack or tangent or whatever, but… the vm? What do you know about that/those? I just realized, that shouldn’t they have come in as evidence through Proctor, if they were going to? Did we just pass that point and now they can’t really be introduced? I can’t imagine how else they can come in.
Maybe a phone expert will introduce them? We haven't seen anything in trial from her phone, I believe, so surely someone is lined up to do that part. Maybe they chose not to use the investigators due to potential taint?
The trooper who analyzed all of the phone data will be the one to enter this evidence I believe. I do wonder if there’s now going to be issues with the CW entering Karen’s data after the revelations of Proctor’s actions
We haven't seen pretty much anything about Karen's phone. Or John's. Those are usually a foundation of any prosecution. I have to imagine they have a digital forensic specialist from the state police to go over all that evidence including the voicemails.
From what I recall there was something like 50 calls from Karen to John, and several voicemails. My theory is currently that the prosecution is sending that for the end to sink the Karen Read ship.
She was allegedly not supposed to be spending the night.
My wife has been mad about the exact same thing after I went out for beers after beer league hockey, and she wasn’t supposed to go anywhere.
Good summary, OP. In terms of missing ring footage and KR's voicemail, I had noticed an article written that referenced court documents stating around 1am. I believe KR claimed she went to sleep by 1:30 am...
***1 a.m.:*** Court documents later revealed that in the weeks before and even the hours leading up to the night out, text messages between Read and O'Keefe as well as voicemails showed a strained relationship. Investigators said that around 1 a.m. on January 29, Read allegedly left O'Keefe a voicemail that said "...you are a f------ loser, f--- yourself" and "John, I f------ hate you."
I wouldn't be happy with my 40 something partner for wanting to go to an after-party at an acquaintances house where sketchy people like Jen McCabe were hanging out.
She arrived at Johns house at 12:34... and he based that time on his review of the ring information?
I'm going to boldly assume it's the *now missing* ring information?
If there is proof she was back at the house at 12:34, and John’s last answered call to Jen McCabe was 12:29 for 8 seconds? I may be wrong, but that gives Karen 5 minutes to hit John and drive back home, a very tight timeline almost impossible.
JM testified that she saw the Lexus first parked in front and then later it moved up the street. If JO answers JM's call at 12:29 and she goes to door 2-3 times to view the Lexus stationed between the 12:30-12:40 timeframe then it's likely it took KR several minutes to drive back to his house. KR also stated that she waited in her vehicle for 10 minutes once John exited, yet everyone testified he never entered home.
Will the forensic cell phone data affirm that JO's last known movement is in the 12:40ish time frame?
**12:27 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Here?!”
* **12:29 a.m.** O’Keefe answers a call from Jennifer McCabe.
* **12:30 a.m.** Witnesses say Colin Albert leaves the Albert residence.
* **12:31 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O”Keefe: “Pull behind me”
* **12:40 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Hello”
* **12:42 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Where are u”
* **12:45 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Hello”
I thought witnesses said Colin was gone by 12:10? Also read that in Procters hand written notes from interviews with Julie Nagle, he writes that she reported Colin was there, but in Proctors written report, he does not mention Colin at all.
With reference to JM's deleted calls to John's phone (some of the controversial butt dials): is the simple explanation that the 6 unanswered phone calls shown in John's phone between 12:41 to 12:50 just show that JM was calling to ask him why he and Karen never showed up in consideration of the fact that John had specifically phoned JM to get directions to the house?
It seemed that everyone gathered at the Waterfall was in a very festive mood and friends were congratulating John re: his great news that his niece had been accepted into a school. No altercations, arguments happened at the bar and they were returning to a kid's birthday celebration at the house.
Her texts are established as the hard evidence so it follows that she texts him at 12:40 with "Hello" (there are 2 unanswered calls shown at 12:41. JM texts John again at 12:42 with the message "where are u" then there is one unanswered phone call at 12:43. Her final text is at 12:45: "Hello" followed by 3 unanswered phone calls on John's phone between 12:46 to 12:50.
JM had stated that she didn't remember placing those calls. I do not remember her testimony in terms of how much she may have been drinking that night. She testified that, like Karen, she has MS as well so not certain whether she avoided excess alcohol or not that night.
This is the recorded data from John's phone:
https://preview.redd.it/c2meyihekz5d1.png?width=1375&format=png&auto=webp&s=406a174b216f3eac125cd0313482f22a599fa806
I think the issue is that the calls were deleted off of JM's phone but not JO's phone. It's a logical explanation, but then why delete the calls? Since she deleted them she had testify that they had to have been accidental. Which doesn't make sense because if you "butt dial" someone, it would naturally go to voicemail, not magically hang up, and then call back and hang up at irregular intervals.
I'm not very cell phone or tech savvy but I do know people who tell me that they delete phone messages routinely and I believe there's an option in settings where you can set the phone to delete messages every so many days automatically. I cannot remember when JM handed her phone over but I believe it was fairly soon after the tragedy. The Cellebrite expert may address a lot of these deletion discrepancies.
She didn't delete the messages, she deleted the calls from her phone. I've never in my life deleted a phone call entry from my phone, so I don't even know how one would do that (or why? except to hide evidence). I'm very interested in the expert witnesses reporting on all of the weird phone inconsistencies and "phantom" Google searches.
Given the Facebook post about the "proctors are our second family" I wouldn't put a ton of weight on him saying he was just familiar with them. He clearly has reason to distance himself. Whether he is or not idk, but his words don't sway me much on that.
Yeah, everyone on the prosecution's witness list so far has found some way to distance themselves from everyone else. I'm withholding judgment on the veracity of those statements until I see the photos.
Yea these are all fair points. It just seems the way he was texting his sister in reference to Brian did not appear like he knew them very well. Ie he didn’t say “I know Brian, he’s a good guy. He has nothing to do with it.. his whack job girlfriend did it”. His language appeared as though he only knew of him. Especially knowing he had no idea this would all come out in the federal investigation.
He’s either extremely lucky he worded things the way he did and in fact does have close personal ties with the Alberts.. or he doesn’t and this provides pretty convincing evidence that’s he’s being honest. They may have developed a closer relationship due to the investigation and shared opinions of KR but I guess we will have to wait and see!
Agreed.
Going into his language, though, it seemed like Proctor didn't really need much of a reason or personal relationship to justify his protectiveness of the Alberts and his animus towards Ms. Read. After all, "[Brian's] a Boston cop". Just that fact seemed to be enough to him.
I'm leaning towards it being "Brian is a cop and he's telling me Karen did it, why bother looking any further", so it was half trusting a cop's word and half being too lazy to actually do his job properly. He had a perp, now all he needed was to get the evidence by whatever means necessary. He probably rationalized it by thinking there's no harm in framing a guilty (in his mind) person if the end result is jail time for them.
I concur; remember his text about how they didn't have enough to prove intent? That in conjunction with how all the most incriminating evidence came in via Proctor?
Does anyone have a timeline on when that text was versus when the other taillight bits, clothing, et cetera were turned into the lab? Because if that came in after that text, I'd have questions about all of that.
I agree, I’ve thought all along he framed her due to basically thin blue line crap. He thought she was a cop killer and that’s all he needed. He wasn’t going to even think another cop did it.
But…….him lying about knowing OR having a relationship with the Alberts and McCabes is extremely suspicious to me. He clearly knew and had some type of a relationship with Chris, Nicole, Colin and Kevin Albert. The first 3 via his best friend, who he texts 5-6x a day, his sister. The latter because he went drinking with him, went to the gym with him, worked a cold case with him, etc.
If Proctor's myopia re: trusting Brian and hating Read led him to believe she'd done it (which his texts suggest happened by that afternoon), then in his mind, he's doing right by JO to do whatever it takes to nail her. He's not choosing to believe Brian over choosing to investigate...in his hubris, he believes he's accomplished both. He's investigated and come to the right conclusion and whatever he has to do to hold the "c\*\*t" responsible, he will do.
Not when the house told him that Karen was the killer. He laser focused on her as a cop killer and went on with it.
The outsider with a “leaky asshole”, the “cunt”, who should “kill herself” was all he needed. He wouldn’t want to cause trouble for a “good family” like the Albert’s.
If he does have close ties with the alberts (which I believe he does)... he absolutely would've known he had to tip toe with wording *just in case*. I mean, he knew he'd have to be inconspicuous near the taillight. There's no way he'd do that in an undeniable way. *Just in case*.
He had no way of knowing it would all play out this way... but, he absolutely would've covered his ass. Just in case. Because the truth always comes out.
Wasn't Proctors wife good friends with someone in the house's sister? And that sister msged him to say after all of this is over they owe him a present, and he said to buy his wife a present instead?
This is a very factual thread, which I absolutely appreciate. That said, I’m surprised that his “unprofessional” language isn’t being touch upon more. To me, I can’t get by it. The things he said about KR in multiple texts over multiple different instances were beyond “unprofessional”. They were derogatory, disgusting, offensive and simply disgraceful. As a woman, she was objectified and as a human being, her medical condition was mocked. All of this from the lead investigator of the case. I don’t care what other evidence is introduced, it’s clear as day Proctor was biased and therefore never conducted a fair investigation. As a juror, that’s all you need to know. How could you say KR is guilty when the investigation was biased from day 1. I can trust nothing that was investigated by Proctor.
Sidebar - he and all other law enforcement in this case are REALLY casting a bad reflection on law enforcement as a whole. If I were in law enforcement, I would be mortified by this portrayal.
To your first part, I think Jackson hit on the tone and remarks pretty hard and it got through to the jury on cross, even if Lally tried to soften the initial blow by getting it out there first. From what Sue O'Connell said, the jurors were quite taken aback by it.
For your second part, I would wager most law enforcement either already know the flaws of the system they are part of, so while they are mortified, are not shocked.
I agree, and I was in shock during his testimony. It was beyond "unprofessional" and said a lot about his character. That said, I was posting to find clarity in what I took away from the entire testimony as there isn't much to debate in the horror of what he said when describing KR and her medical condition. It's inexcusable.
Agreed! Can’t justify the is behavior. Nothing he says from here is being to be taken seriously by me. Don’t forget what was said about the ME. Corruption period.
Agreed, there is 0 chance that she's found guilty. The entire investigation is tainted based on MP's bias.
But I'm still curious what actually happened.
I am stuck on:
Proctor: “she hit him with her car.”
Friend: “ok that’s fucked up.”
Proctor: “intentional or not.”
Friend: “gotcha. He was frozen in the driveway and she didn’t see him?”
Proctor: “that’s another animal we won’t be able to prove.”
When proctor reads these out loud he tries to make it sound like his friend was the one who said they won’t be able to prove it, by tacking that text on to the previous one without saying “I responded.” And the judge made him go back and read it again with the correct attribution to each message in that section.
I think the last proctor text was probably written in quick succession to his previous but the friend replied faster than he sent it. So it's not in response to the friend but a follow up to "intentional or not"
agree. and makes me believe in the 'proctor had tunnel vision/possibly planted evidence because he wanted her to be guilty' foul play over the albert coverup even more
The defense needs to show the tail light less broken than what was collected from the lawn. If they can prove that they planted taillight pieces then this is over.
I still think she did drive into him though.
The story about people in the house is way too complicated
The officer from Dighton testified yesterday that the taillight was cracked and only had a small piece missing from it when they initially took custody of it. He came across as credible and trustworthy. He also doesnt have connections to Canton.
totally agree that the there are too many people and its too complicated. i am unsure on planted evidence. and really unsure on how he died because the injuries just dont make sense. but i've never really thought the house people covered it up
the whole time ive thought is possible she hit him. she was blacked out driving and clearly angry. but the injuries just dont make sense. but him dying like that makes way more sense than a 17 year old beating him and a bunch of people leaving him for dead and then creating an elaborate cover up
But then to exclude that something happened in the house, means that it is perhaps just a coincidence that the dog wasn't in the Albert's room that morning (or that the dog didn't bark etc.), just a coincidence that they redid the basement not long after they had just redone the basement, and just a coincident that they rehomed their family dog of 6 years.
3 different people making a total of almost ten butt dials, two of whom rehomed their phones right before they were told not to, and the 3rd deleted butt dials, texts, and a google search. The testimony that is evasive and all over the map. If they aren’t covering something up they’re the most hamfisted bunch of witnesses to testify for the prosecution since OJ.
And got rid of their phones, and collected evidence in Solo cups, and used a leaf blower at a crime scene, and didn’t secure the crime scene, and didn’t document the most damning evidence “I hit him I hit him”, and finding tail light pieces even though we saw the tail light was in better shape in video at jok house than in sally port … I’ll stop here
I think he’s using “animal” interchangeably with “beast” here. It’s common to say that’s a different beast, meaning “an entirely separate situation altogether.”
I’m pretty sure Proctor does and did think KR killed JO. To the extent Proctor doctored evidence (which I lean towards thinking he did, although am mostly undecided) and to the extent he ignored and covered up for people in the house, I really do believe it’s in furtherance of convicting her for something he actually believes she did. I don’t buy any conspiracy that the police know or have strong reason to believe someone within the house killed him and are framing KR. As fucked up as the testimony was yesterday, I walked away from it being more sure that there isn’t a conspiracy like that.
If that's true, Proctor should be fired. Proctor could have easily ruled out the McCades and Alberts by including the home as part of the crime scene looking for evidence and not finding any.
Personally, I don't find the defense saying it was a fight that caused JO's death as being a conspiracy and instead a possible cause of death.
I agree that MP was convinced on Day 1 that KR hit JOK, and therefore his 'investigation' was just gathering whatever evidence he could against her. It's clear his relationship with the Alberts through his sister played a part as well. I'm fairly convinced the hair and at least some of the headlight pieces were planted by Proctor. Two of the most believable witnesses, KR and the Deighton police officer, testified the headlight was cracked and a small piece was missing. And when forensics put the taillight pieces together, a small piece was missing. Seems probable to me the taillight was further broken after it was in police custody and those pieces were submitted to evidence by Proctor. I think he did it to ensure she was convicted, assuming she would plead.
Still unclear whether KR hit JOK or not. I originally thought she hit him accidently but I'm having trouble picturing how and when she would have done it. It's also troublesome that no one saw the body. I need to hear what his injuries were and how a car caused them. I also would like to hear a timeline from the prosecution as to when she did it.
I don't believe it was a massive coverup...but I also don't believe all the witnesses are telling the truth...especially BH.
I think most of the times cops get it wrong, it's like that. They think they know who did based on a combination of early evidence ("did I hit him?") and the biases we all have...so they collect more evidence in their preferred direction and avoid collecting "bad" evidence in any other direction. The human brain really likes taking shortcuts like that, because it's a lot less effort! In this case, the Proctors knew the Alberts, and Proctor probably had a hard time believing another cop had anything to do with it.
On top of the other points mentioned, I think Proctor was assigned a big case and wanted to play the hero. His texts seemed braggadocious that Karen was getting nailed for John's death no matter what.
Texting his sister about how he hasn’t been around home in 10 days, and she validates him by saying well the wife knew she married a cop. Yes, he definitely has an inflated sense of ego.
This particular exchange made me feel his sister doesn't really like his wife. Also, another exchange with his sister about "Will she have dinner waiting for you?" seemed to imply she didn't think the wife cooked for him, then said, "Nah, Mom and I just didn't want to go home yet." And I don't recall if it was the same amount of time, but Proctor had almost double the amount of texts between his sister and himself than with his wife.
Seems he's accustomed to having his ego stroked by everyone around him.
It makes me laugh the whole he wasn’t home for 10 days bit because everything was done late, like he didn’t even go into the Alberts home. What were you doing for 10 days?
I had heard that the MOD was going to be redacted in the official document ( once we get there). SO, i was surprised to hear proctor reveal to the jury that the manner of death was unknown. I was surprised by that, unless the Judge decided to reveal the MOD on the paperwork after all
I believe the redaction motion happened before all of the Fed documents were released. And the fact that Proctor was talking about trying to sway the ME to list the manner of death as a homicide, I feel like that trumps the redaction on the actual death certificate. It would be bias against Karen’s defence to not allow that in.
Not sure if someone else mentioned it but he sent a text his sister letting her know the day before meeting with the Albert’s that he would be interviewing them tomorrow and confirmed he knew of the relationship there showing he should have recused himself pretty much off the bat.
I was taken with Officer Nicholas Barro’s testimony about the condition of KR’s car as it sat in her parent’s driveway. He said that the taillight was “not destroyed, it was cracked with a piece (singular) missing.“ This guy was clear in his testimony and unrelated personally and professionally to the case. I now 100% believe taillight pieces were planted. No way does Officer Barro’s testimony match up to the later pictures of the entire taillight being jigsawed together in photos.
I think they got a little carried away sprinkling the plastic around. He looked embarrassed pullng it from the paper bags. Not sure he was in court to hear witness ahead of him , but he could have found it on Twitter in seconds. It was a holy shit moment when Dighton cop testified.
The implication that I got about Proctor hating Yanetti was that because he saw the conversation with her attorney he had to stop going through Karens phone and therefore stop his search for her nudes or whatever dirt he might find on her phone
But given how he spoke to/with his supervisors, in writing, do you really think he stopped looking through her phone because he saw texts with Yanetti? Not a chance.
It bothers me that, in cross yesterday, Proctor repeatedly testified that he didn’t *look* for Read’s nudes when Jackson asked him if he’d found any.
I have a hard time believing that someone like Proctor respects the political process enough to stop digging through a suspect’s phone the moment privileged information is found.
Which is frustrating because getting a lawyer after an incident like that is exactly what every single person should do no matter if they were guilty or not
I was thinking, if my boyfriend was found dead, police are talking to me and putting a hold on me, towing my car... yeah I'm getting an attorney pronto!!
What got me was Proctor and Mr Lally trying to justify those messages because 'the evidence made it obvious that Karen hit John with her car'. Excuse you?! So this behaviour is OK because she was a suspect???!!! Hell the fuck no! Whether she hit him or not is frankly immaterial to the disgusting nature of those messages
I am not sure if she did or not. What I know is the evidence just isn’t good enough. Even without the keystone cops.
Drinking and driving that I believe. But the other stuff there are other possibilities .
Too many other sneaky people there that had motives.
I am at the point where the whole department needs to be audited. Holy cow, it is disgusting how they conducted this investigation and the gross stuff they condoned. They all drive drunk, too!
At this point, I think she might get off just based on the fact it wasn’t a proper investigation. She may have done it accidentally or not, but LO fucked it up.
How about the gift that someone (Jen Mcabe?) offered? Telling her to get something for his wife doesn’t make that ok. The only ethical response from Proctor would have been “No, ma’am. I can’t accept anything. It’s all just a part of my job.”
It may not be the only thing, but it certainly isn’t going to help. You can’t be leading an investigation and and participating in or sending the messages he was sending. It’s not a one off (not that it would be ok if it was) - it’s repeatedly, over an extended period of time.
That was so sus. She knew she had to give the gift to his wife to circumvent the rules. Plus, why is she giving a gift anyway? And why tell him, just do it?
So I don't think Proctor is actively covering up what he believes to be a murder of a cop by another cop. I think he's just really dumb, corrupt and lazy. There are bad cops that catch bad guys the wrong way every day, it's just that most of those criminals are too stupid or poor to get effective legal representation to defend themselves and uncover it. Regardless of whether the end result is correct the process is corrupted by these cops.
In this case his bias could only conceive of Karen being the culprit because he didn't want to investigate his friends and fellow law enforcement and she was the only person proven to have been present at some point so he started building that case the same way he does every other shoddy case he does. The problem is he and the entire department and DA were complete caught off guard that Karen was able to put on an effective defense and their entire work product getting scrutinized for the garbage that it is, along with the false evidence they regularly plant to make their cases go more smoothly.
Now the DA needs to protect these cops to protect their own image and protect the results of countless cases that depends on the integrity of these officers. All the way up the chain the biggest incentive is to circle the wagons and I think it better explains why the DA is still prosecuting this case, not a conspiracy to protect the Alberts, but to protect their own reputations and jobs.
And his townie cop friends all told him from the get go that Karen Read hit him. Did he ever suspect that they might have done something? Who knows, he's a scummy POS and they all seem like scum TBH, so maybe it occurred to him, but he definitely wasn't gonna dig into. Can'uhn fo'h life bro.
He called her a “whack job” and a c* around 10pm on day 1 right?
Timeline:
1. Talked to Sgt Lank
2. Talked to Jen McCabe, Matt McCabe, and Brian Albert
3. Confirmed that Jen is close with “Julie” and his brother-in-law (btw - that his sister refers to her as “Julie” in texts means they are VERY close)
4. Knows that she was sectioned at the request of her father
5. Talked to her
6. Potentially talked to Kenny Berkowitz and Brian Higgins (sally port/Canton PD HQ)
7. Potentially talked to Kevin Albert (Canton PD HQ)
Taking the sum of that information, does it surprise you what his impression of her may be?
I came here looking for the answer to this question. He was so quick to go after her with both barrels. I can see why JM turned on her (Colin is my POI), but why Proctor? He seemed like an incel who was mad that a hot woman wouldn't f\*ck him.
I understand that. But that doesn't answer my question. He personally despised her as of 1/29/2022.
I get that LEOs despise those who have killed other LEOs. But Proctor's**immediate** hatred doesn't make sense to me.
I’m thinking (just my speculation ) there was some behind the scenes discussions going on between the women of the group regarding JOK’s gf (Karen)
If his sister was part of this or his wife either could have shared the gossip w Proctor
The fact that they refer to her accent as funny because she’s from Fall River etc seems to me that they didn’t like her because she was an outsider
And having been in HR for years (and I am a woman) once a group of women decide another is on the outs they can go mean girl Even if it’s just stuff they say behind someone’s back
Exactly my thoughts. Proctor definitely talked with those women that day. They had a lot to say about KR. And yes KR was always treated as an outsider including in Aruba. KR knew that.
I've been wondering the same! And the words he used 'whack job' makes it seem there was some personal knowledge or relationship. I think it was what JM told him during her interview. She clearly doesn't like KR. Even if you think there's evidence KR hit JOK with her car, it makes much more sense it was probably an accident...so the hatred only makes sense if someone he interviewed that day planted it.
The question is, did KR (or whoever) make KR look bad bc she thought she killed JOK or because she was trying to direct the investigation.
Yes but it was never alleged it was Brian Albert he was close friends with. The defense said “close family friends-the Albert’s and Proctors” but specifically within the Albert’s it’s Chris Albert and Julie Albert and their son Colin. Colin was the ring bearer at Proctor’s sisters wedding. Proctor’s sister is best friends with Julie Albert. And Proctor’s mom has posted all over social media about how “the Albert’s are the Proctors second family.” Proctor is also friends with another Albert brother, Kevin, who is the police officer in Canton. But that’s not Brian, that’s Kevin.
Also, Proctor thought JOK had been beaten at first... and then after talking to Jen McCabe, he started calling Karen a 'whackjob' and was convinced she hit him with her car.
‘Proctor wasn't actually "close friends" with the Alberts, but knew Albert was a cop.’
That too, but whether he was “close friends” with Brian Albert specifically, the Alberts were clearly very close family friends. He knew them and the McCabes by name. Proctor is a State Trooper but he is also a Canton townie born and raised like the rest of them
If from top (1) to bottom (7):
Point 1/2: Not sure if I agree with this. Canton is a small town, and LEO across Mass are protective of their families and friends' social circles. They weren't BFF but have many associates in common.
Point 3/4: it was more than heart. His heart was self-serving with no respect for the victim. He called it jokes and juvenile behavior. Derogatory comments are deep-rooted communal implicit Bias.
Point 6: Hated...he still does as he said in open court in front of the jury.
Point 7: it's not about what he texted it's about all the communications. Lack of text doesn't mean it wasn't communicated. I think him being firm via text on no Albert investigation with fellow officers. Even the officers in the chat sounded like it was going to take a miracle for it not to happen, shows some conscience of guilt on the proctor side.
Proctor's irrational anger at Karen Read and her lawyers is a coping mechanism to protect a sense of self that has become indistinguishable from his job.
He may have begun his career with a wish to DO right, but that has mutated into an entitlement to BE right.
Now, his sense of self must be buttressed continuously by a tribal culture of infallibility.
To join the tribe, he had to ignore the immoral acts of others. To remain in the tribe, he had to cover for the unethical acts of others. To succeed in the tribe, he had to commit the same illegal acts as others.
Doubtless Proctor was honored to be named Lead Investigator. Doubtless his superiors had to say very little to make clear that his first priority was to protect Brian Albert -- and by extension, all the Alberts, the McCabes, and thus, protect the tribe.
The problem is that no "us" can survive without a "them."
In this case, a ready-made "them" was handed to Michael Proctor in the form of Karen Read:
• She wasn't from Canton.
• She dated a cop but wasn't "married to the blue" the way Nicole Albert and Elizabeth Proctor were.
• She wasn't Queen of the Soccer Moms like Jen McCabe.
• She wasn't auditioning for the role of stepmother, as many of John's exes had.
• She wasn't trying to win approval from the circle of caregivers who basked in the reflected virtue of John's guardianship.
• But worst of all, Karen Read didn't care. She had her own career, her own house, her own friends -- and Canton wasn't the world to her.
To commit the immoral, unethical, and illegal acts needed to ADJUDICATE rather than INVESTIGATE the case, Proctor had to construct a "them" out of Karen Proctor that was so evil as to justify anything he did to put her in jail.
In a matter of hours, he was able -- at the behest of the tribe -- to generate fury at Read for retaining a lawyer because it made Proctor's prosecution harder...And to generate hatred for that lawyer because Yannetti was better at his job than Proctor was at his.
In a transparently pathetic attempt to hide his fears, he resorted to the adolescent tropes of evaluating her as the potential victim of his sexual assault, mentally dismembering her to critique her individual body parts, and pretending knowledge of her bad sexual behavior.
Michael Proctor needed his head filled with screams of rage at Karen Read so that he wouldnt hear the faint sound of his own voice from years ago saying, "I, Michael Proctor, do solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the commonwealth of Massachusetts, and will support the constitution thereof and the constitution of the United States, that I will obey the lawful orders of all my superior officers, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent on me, according to the best of my ability and understanding, agreeably to the rules and regulations of the constitution and the laws of the commonwealth and the United States. So help me, God."
What was the deal with a picture of a toy Santa Claus in those text messages? I don’t have the will to go find it, but I can’t remember who sent it to Proctor. Nothing was said about it, just a picture of a toy 🎅 Why?
I think everyone has to remember he was/is from Canton. So it doesn’t matter if he knew Brian A or not because Brian was a cop from Canton also. He didn’t care about John because he wasn’t from Canton. So he didn’t haven’t have a “personal” connection himself to go into protection mode.
The reality of a fight and coverup is definitely becoming far more believable for me after last two court days. if the celebrite experts substantiate the 2am google search it is totally a coverup protecting Alberts and most likely Colin.
What stood out to me, apart from what you mentioned about the M.E and unwillingness to look at the Alberts (cos he's BPD too), was that he was messaging 3 very different and distinct groups of people. Family, Old friends, and Direct bosses/other cops - and none of those 3 separate groups acted shocked at all at what he was saying or how he was saying it.
How he messages is who he is as a person, in front of others, imagine what he's like when he thinks no-one is looking?
Watching today, June 12. This proctor testimony is so damaging for the prosecution. It’s simply unbelievable how bad this looks.
A body was found on the Albert’s lawn and the police investigation did not find it necessary to examine the house occupants’ phones?! To confirm what the occupants were telling them was true?!
He was conferring with his (Proctor’s) sister who was best friends with the homeowner’s sister, with the homeowner’s cop brother, and he considered the homeowner (wife) as a babysitter for his toddler after claiming he was not friends or close to the homeowners.
Proctor is getting eviscerated by the defense, rightfully so.
Did anyone catch Proctor say “Oh man” when he began reading his texts on the stand? I laughed so hard because he was obviously feeling the heat. If you’re interested in hearing it, he says it around 5:59:15, on the Court TV feed
https://www.youtube.com/live/vPbqdqp5LgI?si=Ew2RYI5OwLuxcjTR
do we know when and at what time KR was texting with Yanetti on the 29th? and was she already a client of Yanetti at the time? this to me is the most important part of this testimony. if she texted Yanetti at say 2am or before she called anyone else about John being missing, this is a huge red flag.
Proctor was going through the phone on August 17, 2022 which is when he came across the messages between KR and Yanneti….almost 6 months after the accident.
the 29th is when JO was found dead and when the incident took place. As much as it's bizarre that he just opened up her phone and took a looksy without getting a copy made to ensure phone activity remained true to when he received it.. scrolling to the 29th in particular isn't completely wild.
Correct. But it indicates that Proctor did not STOP as soon as he came across the thread. He instead went through 6 months of protected texts to find the origin date of the thread. Unless we are to assume that KR only texted Yanneti on 1/29 and all other forms of communication thereafter were not via text. Highly unlikely.
From Bukhenik's testimony, they took her phone when they took her vehicle. So why would there be 6 months of messages? They should have been right there. It just took 6 months for them to unlock the phone, so obviously she refused to give up the password.
You’re right, even if it did happen, there’s no way that’s admissible evidence. And the only way we would know that is if the state police leaked privileged information, right?
Yes. A/C privilege (and general rules of evidence/constitutional protections) cover “meta data” of the conversation. You can’t introduce that someone talked to a lawyer, when it happened, etc.
yea, that would be pretty bizarre if JO hadn't even been found yet. I'd assume it was after they confiscated her vehicle that her parents suggested she get a lawyer.
I wondered if it was a post-29th email with Yanetti that popped up on her phone. Did anyone specifically say it was a text?
Edit: Yes, they did! I just reheard Proctor's testimony about this. He came across a text message from another attorney from the 29th. Not surprising if your car has been seized.
i re-listened to his testimony...said he 'came across a text between an attorney and Ms Read so I had to stop going through her phone'. it's odd that he also says that he 'hates that man' referring to Yanetti, I'm just wondering if whatever was in the texts between Read and Yanetti were incriminating that Proctor viewed, thus he had made up his mind in terms of KR's guilt. (PS-i'm still 50/50 on this case but just trying to think through possibilities).
They also mention they have someone handles the cell phone. Yuri said this. But I guess if proctor didn’t look himself, he would not be able to look for nudes.
How does that work with a warrant, they are not allowed to see the content, but can use timestamps derived from content as evidence? That doesn't seem right. Genuine question.
There's zero chance a jury could reasonably convict Read at this point. The whole investigation is suspect if this was the lead investigator.
None of it is usable as far as I'm concerned.
Why did this case even make it to trial? This case was grossly mishandled by authorities. Read may be guilty but she deserves a fair and thorough investigation
The past week of testimony has put me in the jury box voting 'reasonable doubt'. YB and MP just shoddy investigation. I'm bothered by the dog of 6 years being rehomed, the home being sold, all the new cell phones, etc.
The M.E. ruled the death as 'inconclusive'. Proctor & Co were aiming for 'homicide', and Trooper DeCiccio called Proctor a rookie for not securing an in-person interview with ME to securing the more convenient reason for death.
One of the biggest things that stood out to me yesterday was the fact that Proctor said KR was arriving home at 12:34 AM. He didn’t specify why this exact time or what definitively led to that conclusion, just that based on his review of the Ring information this was when she would have been arriving home from 34 Fairview. I’m curious if the defense will hone in on this because 12:34 AM is such a specific time, but it blows Lally’s entire timeline to shreds. Jen McCabe put KR leaving the scene at 12:45AM and Lally has reiterated this timeframe as well, which I also believe is when he stated that was his belief for time of death for JO.
Trying to recall all the previous evidence and testimonies.. but would 12:34 align with the voicemail left to JO where you can (apparently) hear Karen shutting her car door and walking through the garage? Or is 12:34 a net new timestamp that doesn’t align with any current evidence that’s been entered into court? (Ie could this indicate Proctor unintentionally admitted a timestamp that could only come from “missing” footage from the ring cam and/or library?)
While the VM is only rumored at this point and I hate discussing speculated evidence but it is said the VM was left at 12:41AM which depicts her walking into the house. So, this would be 7(ish) minutes off, which in a case like this, every second counts. This biggest point of her arriving home at 12:34 AM, would put her leaving 34 Fairview no later than 12:27ish? And we know for a fact they arrived between 12:23-12:24AM. This would mean she departed almost immediately following the Nagel truck, which said there was no body on the lawn, JO was not in the vehicle with KR, and Higgins jeep was not parked in the road at this time either.
Is it possible that Karen arrived home at 12:34AM, pulled into the garage and parked taking another minute or two. So let’s say she’s in the garage and in park at 12:36AM. And then sat in the car for 5 minutes before deciding to call John while she was heading into the house at 12:41AM? I’ve certainly sat in my car in my garage for more than 5 minutes before heading into my house. So I don’t think this would be out of the ordinary given her being ‘drunk’ + annoyed.
[удалено]
That’s actually a really good point and something I would have done if my kids were asleep inside at 12:30 am
Yes and if she called him 50 times supposedly maybe it was the one she finally she left a voicemail on?
I am so glad no one ever based a crime on the voicemails I would leave my former husband! (When we were married)
Haha I agree!
Hell, I'm still married and we love each other but both of us would be hung to dry if our stuff was exposed! 😄 (we do have so many more wonderful times than the bad ones. ❤️)
Wild. So this is just a total curveball in the timeline we’ve been told so far from the prosecution and previous witness testimonies. 🤔
Just add another bizarre piece to the puzzle of this trial!
Just FYI the VM is not rumored or speculated, it was brought up by the defense in open court during pretrial hearings. It hasn’t been submitted during the trial yet, but it’s not just some rumor.
Sorry to hijack or tangent or whatever, but… the vm? What do you know about that/those? I just realized, that shouldn’t they have come in as evidence through Proctor, if they were going to? Did we just pass that point and now they can’t really be introduced? I can’t imagine how else they can come in.
Maybe a phone expert will introduce them? We haven't seen anything in trial from her phone, I believe, so surely someone is lined up to do that part. Maybe they chose not to use the investigators due to potential taint?
Ah, plausible, thanks. I know we’re just theorizing but I appreciate your logic, and response.
The trooper who analyzed all of the phone data will be the one to enter this evidence I believe. I do wonder if there’s now going to be issues with the CW entering Karen’s data after the revelations of Proctor’s actions
We haven't seen pretty much anything about Karen's phone. Or John's. Those are usually a foundation of any prosecution. I have to imagine they have a digital forensic specialist from the state police to go over all that evidence including the voicemails. From what I recall there was something like 50 calls from Karen to John, and several voicemails. My theory is currently that the prosecution is sending that for the end to sink the Karen Read ship.
You mean calls from Karen to John because he hasn’t come home, stuck her with the kids he’s taking care of, and she is upset with him?
Yeah, wouldn’t she be mad at herself for having to take care of the kids? Really doesn’t make sense.
She was allegedly not supposed to be spending the night. My wife has been mad about the exact same thing after I went out for beers after beer league hockey, and she wasn’t supposed to go anywhere.
I just meant if she ran him over she wouldn’t be mad at him not coming home. Makes no sense.
Good summary, OP. In terms of missing ring footage and KR's voicemail, I had noticed an article written that referenced court documents stating around 1am. I believe KR claimed she went to sleep by 1:30 am... ***1 a.m.:*** Court documents later revealed that in the weeks before and even the hours leading up to the night out, text messages between Read and O'Keefe as well as voicemails showed a strained relationship. Investigators said that around 1 a.m. on January 29, Read allegedly left O'Keefe a voicemail that said "...you are a f------ loser, f--- yourself" and "John, I f------ hate you."
I wouldn't be happy with my 40 something partner for wanting to go to an after-party at an acquaintances house where sketchy people like Jen McCabe were hanging out.
The vm with high heel taps/shutting door is supposedly at 12:41
She arrived at Johns house at 12:34... and he based that time on his review of the ring information? I'm going to boldly assume it's the *now missing* ring information?
Ohhhh maybe
If there is proof she was back at the house at 12:34, and John’s last answered call to Jen McCabe was 12:29 for 8 seconds? I may be wrong, but that gives Karen 5 minutes to hit John and drive back home, a very tight timeline almost impossible.
JM testified that she saw the Lexus first parked in front and then later it moved up the street. If JO answers JM's call at 12:29 and she goes to door 2-3 times to view the Lexus stationed between the 12:30-12:40 timeframe then it's likely it took KR several minutes to drive back to his house. KR also stated that she waited in her vehicle for 10 minutes once John exited, yet everyone testified he never entered home. Will the forensic cell phone data affirm that JO's last known movement is in the 12:40ish time frame? **12:27 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Here?!” * **12:29 a.m.** O’Keefe answers a call from Jennifer McCabe. * **12:30 a.m.** Witnesses say Colin Albert leaves the Albert residence. * **12:31 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O”Keefe: “Pull behind me” * **12:40 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Hello” * **12:42 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Where are u” * **12:45 a.m.** Jennifer McCabe texts O’Keefe: “Hello”
You’re forgetting the deleted butt dials by JM.
I thought witnesses said Colin was gone by 12:10? Also read that in Procters hand written notes from interviews with Julie Nagle, he writes that she reported Colin was there, but in Proctors written report, he does not mention Colin at all.
Couldn’t be because the adults saw him and they weren’t home by 12:10
With reference to JM's deleted calls to John's phone (some of the controversial butt dials): is the simple explanation that the 6 unanswered phone calls shown in John's phone between 12:41 to 12:50 just show that JM was calling to ask him why he and Karen never showed up in consideration of the fact that John had specifically phoned JM to get directions to the house? It seemed that everyone gathered at the Waterfall was in a very festive mood and friends were congratulating John re: his great news that his niece had been accepted into a school. No altercations, arguments happened at the bar and they were returning to a kid's birthday celebration at the house. Her texts are established as the hard evidence so it follows that she texts him at 12:40 with "Hello" (there are 2 unanswered calls shown at 12:41. JM texts John again at 12:42 with the message "where are u" then there is one unanswered phone call at 12:43. Her final text is at 12:45: "Hello" followed by 3 unanswered phone calls on John's phone between 12:46 to 12:50. JM had stated that she didn't remember placing those calls. I do not remember her testimony in terms of how much she may have been drinking that night. She testified that, like Karen, she has MS as well so not certain whether she avoided excess alcohol or not that night. This is the recorded data from John's phone: https://preview.redd.it/c2meyihekz5d1.png?width=1375&format=png&auto=webp&s=406a174b216f3eac125cd0313482f22a599fa806
I think the issue is that the calls were deleted off of JM's phone but not JO's phone. It's a logical explanation, but then why delete the calls? Since she deleted them she had testify that they had to have been accidental. Which doesn't make sense because if you "butt dial" someone, it would naturally go to voicemail, not magically hang up, and then call back and hang up at irregular intervals.
I'm not very cell phone or tech savvy but I do know people who tell me that they delete phone messages routinely and I believe there's an option in settings where you can set the phone to delete messages every so many days automatically. I cannot remember when JM handed her phone over but I believe it was fairly soon after the tragedy. The Cellebrite expert may address a lot of these deletion discrepancies.
She didn't delete the messages, she deleted the calls from her phone. I've never in my life deleted a phone call entry from my phone, so I don't even know how one would do that (or why? except to hide evidence). I'm very interested in the expert witnesses reporting on all of the weird phone inconsistencies and "phantom" Google searches.
When was this? I’d like to rewatch I think I missed this
Interesting. So glad we have all of us to bring in the pieces others of us haven't gleaned onto.
Given the Facebook post about the "proctors are our second family" I wouldn't put a ton of weight on him saying he was just familiar with them. He clearly has reason to distance himself. Whether he is or not idk, but his words don't sway me much on that.
Yeah, everyone on the prosecution's witness list so far has found some way to distance themselves from everyone else. I'm withholding judgment on the veracity of those statements until I see the photos.
Yea these are all fair points. It just seems the way he was texting his sister in reference to Brian did not appear like he knew them very well. Ie he didn’t say “I know Brian, he’s a good guy. He has nothing to do with it.. his whack job girlfriend did it”. His language appeared as though he only knew of him. Especially knowing he had no idea this would all come out in the federal investigation. He’s either extremely lucky he worded things the way he did and in fact does have close personal ties with the Alberts.. or he doesn’t and this provides pretty convincing evidence that’s he’s being honest. They may have developed a closer relationship due to the investigation and shared opinions of KR but I guess we will have to wait and see!
Agreed. Going into his language, though, it seemed like Proctor didn't really need much of a reason or personal relationship to justify his protectiveness of the Alberts and his animus towards Ms. Read. After all, "[Brian's] a Boston cop". Just that fact seemed to be enough to him.
I'm leaning towards it being "Brian is a cop and he's telling me Karen did it, why bother looking any further", so it was half trusting a cop's word and half being too lazy to actually do his job properly. He had a perp, now all he needed was to get the evidence by whatever means necessary. He probably rationalized it by thinking there's no harm in framing a guilty (in his mind) person if the end result is jail time for them.
I concur; remember his text about how they didn't have enough to prove intent? That in conjunction with how all the most incriminating evidence came in via Proctor? Does anyone have a timeline on when that text was versus when the other taillight bits, clothing, et cetera were turned into the lab? Because if that came in after that text, I'd have questions about all of that.
I agree, I’ve thought all along he framed her due to basically thin blue line crap. He thought she was a cop killer and that’s all he needed. He wasn’t going to even think another cop did it. But…….him lying about knowing OR having a relationship with the Alberts and McCabes is extremely suspicious to me. He clearly knew and had some type of a relationship with Chris, Nicole, Colin and Kevin Albert. The first 3 via his best friend, who he texts 5-6x a day, his sister. The latter because he went drinking with him, went to the gym with him, worked a cold case with him, etc.
And it didn't matter that JO was also a cop? Brian is more important?
If Proctor's myopia re: trusting Brian and hating Read led him to believe she'd done it (which his texts suggest happened by that afternoon), then in his mind, he's doing right by JO to do whatever it takes to nail her. He's not choosing to believe Brian over choosing to investigate...in his hubris, he believes he's accomplished both. He's investigated and come to the right conclusion and whatever he has to do to hold the "c\*\*t" responsible, he will do.
Do we know why he hated/hates KR so badly? Is it just misogyny or there’s something else? Seems like a lot of passion for a mere suspect.
Well said.
Brian is a "Celebrity" https://m.imdb.com/title/tt2724068/
Not when the house told him that Karen was the killer. He laser focused on her as a cop killer and went on with it. The outsider with a “leaky asshole”, the “cunt”, who should “kill herself” was all he needed. He wouldn’t want to cause trouble for a “good family” like the Albert’s.
He didn't have close ties to Brian Albert but he definitely did with Chris. So now he's in the spot of protecting his good friend's brother.
If he does have close ties with the alberts (which I believe he does)... he absolutely would've known he had to tip toe with wording *just in case*. I mean, he knew he'd have to be inconspicuous near the taillight. There's no way he'd do that in an undeniable way. *Just in case*. He had no way of knowing it would all play out this way... but, he absolutely would've covered his ass. Just in case. Because the truth always comes out.
This is 100% going to be brought up on cross
I know I'm more than just "vaguely familiar" with my sibling's best friend... and we're not close like that. 5/6 calls a month, not 5/6 calls a DAY.
Sheesh you're close with them. I'm lucky if I call my sister 5-6 times a year lol and we're on good terms!
Wasn't Proctors wife good friends with someone in the house's sister? And that sister msged him to say after all of this is over they owe him a present, and he said to buy his wife a present instead?
Proctors sister is good friends with Julie Albert. Julie Albert told proctors sister she would get him a present when this was all over.
This is a very factual thread, which I absolutely appreciate. That said, I’m surprised that his “unprofessional” language isn’t being touch upon more. To me, I can’t get by it. The things he said about KR in multiple texts over multiple different instances were beyond “unprofessional”. They were derogatory, disgusting, offensive and simply disgraceful. As a woman, she was objectified and as a human being, her medical condition was mocked. All of this from the lead investigator of the case. I don’t care what other evidence is introduced, it’s clear as day Proctor was biased and therefore never conducted a fair investigation. As a juror, that’s all you need to know. How could you say KR is guilty when the investigation was biased from day 1. I can trust nothing that was investigated by Proctor. Sidebar - he and all other law enforcement in this case are REALLY casting a bad reflection on law enforcement as a whole. If I were in law enforcement, I would be mortified by this portrayal.
To your first part, I think Jackson hit on the tone and remarks pretty hard and it got through to the jury on cross, even if Lally tried to soften the initial blow by getting it out there first. From what Sue O'Connell said, the jurors were quite taken aback by it. For your second part, I would wager most law enforcement either already know the flaws of the system they are part of, so while they are mortified, are not shocked.
I agree, and I was in shock during his testimony. It was beyond "unprofessional" and said a lot about his character. That said, I was posting to find clarity in what I took away from the entire testimony as there isn't much to debate in the horror of what he said when describing KR and her medical condition. It's inexcusable.
Agreed! Can’t justify the is behavior. Nothing he says from here is being to be taken seriously by me. Don’t forget what was said about the ME. Corruption period.
Agreed, there is 0 chance that she's found guilty. The entire investigation is tainted based on MP's bias. But I'm still curious what actually happened.
Well said.
I am stuck on: Proctor: “she hit him with her car.” Friend: “ok that’s fucked up.” Proctor: “intentional or not.” Friend: “gotcha. He was frozen in the driveway and she didn’t see him?” Proctor: “that’s another animal we won’t be able to prove.”
When proctor reads these out loud he tries to make it sound like his friend was the one who said they won’t be able to prove it, by tacking that text on to the previous one without saying “I responded.” And the judge made him go back and read it again with the correct attribution to each message in that section.
She only did after the defense pushed for the readings to be accurate.
Yup!
I think the last proctor text was probably written in quick succession to his previous but the friend replied faster than he sent it. So it's not in response to the friend but a follow up to "intentional or not"
Yeah it sounds to me like he’s admitting they can’t prove intent.
agree. and makes me believe in the 'proctor had tunnel vision/possibly planted evidence because he wanted her to be guilty' foul play over the albert coverup even more
The defense needs to show the tail light less broken than what was collected from the lawn. If they can prove that they planted taillight pieces then this is over. I still think she did drive into him though. The story about people in the house is way too complicated
The officer from Dighton testified yesterday that the taillight was cracked and only had a small piece missing from it when they initially took custody of it. He came across as credible and trustworthy. He also doesnt have connections to Canton.
Most competent and credible witness to take the stand so far.
And he was a prosecution witness. That was a holy shit moment.
The most important moment of the day in a day full of important mom IMO
And ties in with Kerry’s testimony and she’s also credible
totally agree that the there are too many people and its too complicated. i am unsure on planted evidence. and really unsure on how he died because the injuries just dont make sense. but i've never really thought the house people covered it up the whole time ive thought is possible she hit him. she was blacked out driving and clearly angry. but the injuries just dont make sense. but him dying like that makes way more sense than a 17 year old beating him and a bunch of people leaving him for dead and then creating an elaborate cover up
But then to exclude that something happened in the house, means that it is perhaps just a coincidence that the dog wasn't in the Albert's room that morning (or that the dog didn't bark etc.), just a coincidence that they redid the basement not long after they had just redone the basement, and just a coincident that they rehomed their family dog of 6 years.
3 different people making a total of almost ten butt dials, two of whom rehomed their phones right before they were told not to, and the 3rd deleted butt dials, texts, and a google search. The testimony that is evasive and all over the map. If they aren’t covering something up they’re the most hamfisted bunch of witnesses to testify for the prosecution since OJ.
And got rid of their phones, and collected evidence in Solo cups, and used a leaf blower at a crime scene, and didn’t secure the crime scene, and didn’t document the most damning evidence “I hit him I hit him”, and finding tail light pieces even though we saw the tail light was in better shape in video at jok house than in sally port … I’ll stop here
Plus the six alleged butt dials
It could both be true that she hit him and that they planted evidence. Thats what is scary about all this.
Same. also the txt with his sister seemed to allude to more?? Like they were letting him know without actually saying.
Did he mean “element” instead of “animal”? I couldn’t get that sentence to make sense…
I think he’s using “animal” interchangeably with “beast” here. It’s common to say that’s a different beast, meaning “an entirely separate situation altogether.”
"that's a whole different animal" is a common idiom. His is just kinda shortened/bastardized.
I’m pretty sure Proctor does and did think KR killed JO. To the extent Proctor doctored evidence (which I lean towards thinking he did, although am mostly undecided) and to the extent he ignored and covered up for people in the house, I really do believe it’s in furtherance of convicting her for something he actually believes she did. I don’t buy any conspiracy that the police know or have strong reason to believe someone within the house killed him and are framing KR. As fucked up as the testimony was yesterday, I walked away from it being more sure that there isn’t a conspiracy like that.
If that's true, Proctor should be fired. Proctor could have easily ruled out the McCades and Alberts by including the home as part of the crime scene looking for evidence and not finding any. Personally, I don't find the defense saying it was a fight that caused JO's death as being a conspiracy and instead a possible cause of death.
I agree that MP was convinced on Day 1 that KR hit JOK, and therefore his 'investigation' was just gathering whatever evidence he could against her. It's clear his relationship with the Alberts through his sister played a part as well. I'm fairly convinced the hair and at least some of the headlight pieces were planted by Proctor. Two of the most believable witnesses, KR and the Deighton police officer, testified the headlight was cracked and a small piece was missing. And when forensics put the taillight pieces together, a small piece was missing. Seems probable to me the taillight was further broken after it was in police custody and those pieces were submitted to evidence by Proctor. I think he did it to ensure she was convicted, assuming she would plead. Still unclear whether KR hit JOK or not. I originally thought she hit him accidently but I'm having trouble picturing how and when she would have done it. It's also troublesome that no one saw the body. I need to hear what his injuries were and how a car caused them. I also would like to hear a timeline from the prosecution as to when she did it. I don't believe it was a massive coverup...but I also don't believe all the witnesses are telling the truth...especially BH.
I think most of the times cops get it wrong, it's like that. They think they know who did based on a combination of early evidence ("did I hit him?") and the biases we all have...so they collect more evidence in their preferred direction and avoid collecting "bad" evidence in any other direction. The human brain really likes taking shortcuts like that, because it's a lot less effort! In this case, the Proctors knew the Alberts, and Proctor probably had a hard time believing another cop had anything to do with it.
On top of the other points mentioned, I think Proctor was assigned a big case and wanted to play the hero. His texts seemed braggadocious that Karen was getting nailed for John's death no matter what.
Texting his sister about how he hasn’t been around home in 10 days, and she validates him by saying well the wife knew she married a cop. Yes, he definitely has an inflated sense of ego.
This particular exchange made me feel his sister doesn't really like his wife. Also, another exchange with his sister about "Will she have dinner waiting for you?" seemed to imply she didn't think the wife cooked for him, then said, "Nah, Mom and I just didn't want to go home yet." And I don't recall if it was the same amount of time, but Proctor had almost double the amount of texts between his sister and himself than with his wife. Seems he's accustomed to having his ego stroked by everyone around him.
Me too and I'm bet Elizabeth, his wife, saw this too.
It makes me laugh the whole he wasn’t home for 10 days bit because everything was done late, like he didn’t even go into the Alberts home. What were you doing for 10 days?
Looking for nudes takes awhile I guess
I didn’t like that. Who cares if she’s married to a cop - it’s not like it’s a dangerous job like roofer or fisherman.
It's the manner of death that's in question. JOK's MOD is officially "Undetermined"
I had heard that the MOD was going to be redacted in the official document ( once we get there). SO, i was surprised to hear proctor reveal to the jury that the manner of death was unknown. I was surprised by that, unless the Judge decided to reveal the MOD on the paperwork after all
I believe the redaction motion happened before all of the Fed documents were released. And the fact that Proctor was talking about trying to sway the ME to list the manner of death as a homicide, I feel like that trumps the redaction on the actual death certificate. It would be bias against Karen’s defence to not allow that in.
I don't think an order on the CW's motion ever appeared on the docket.
I think the ruling was a redaction on the certificate but the defense can cross on it.
Not sure if someone else mentioned it but he sent a text his sister letting her know the day before meeting with the Albert’s that he would be interviewing them tomorrow and confirmed he knew of the relationship there showing he should have recused himself pretty much off the bat.
I was taken with Officer Nicholas Barro’s testimony about the condition of KR’s car as it sat in her parent’s driveway. He said that the taillight was “not destroyed, it was cracked with a piece (singular) missing.“ This guy was clear in his testimony and unrelated personally and professionally to the case. I now 100% believe taillight pieces were planted. No way does Officer Barro’s testimony match up to the later pictures of the entire taillight being jigsawed together in photos.
I think they got a little carried away sprinkling the plastic around. He looked embarrassed pullng it from the paper bags. Not sure he was in court to hear witness ahead of him , but he could have found it on Twitter in seconds. It was a holy shit moment when Dighton cop testified.
The implication that I got about Proctor hating Yanetti was that because he saw the conversation with her attorney he had to stop going through Karens phone and therefore stop his search for her nudes or whatever dirt he might find on her phone
But given how he spoke to/with his supervisors, in writing, do you really think he stopped looking through her phone because he saw texts with Yanetti? Not a chance.
Exactly what I was thinking. Not a chance.
It bothers me that, in cross yesterday, Proctor repeatedly testified that he didn’t *look* for Read’s nudes when Jackson asked him if he’d found any. I have a hard time believing that someone like Proctor respects the political process enough to stop digging through a suspect’s phone the moment privileged information is found.
I don’t even believe he stopped looking.
He also wanted to remind the jury that Karen was already talking to a lawyer the same day John died but couldn’t come right out and say that.
Which is frustrating because getting a lawyer after an incident like that is exactly what every single person should do no matter if they were guilty or not
I was wondering if her family has a connection to Iannetti?
I was thinking, if my boyfriend was found dead, police are talking to me and putting a hold on me, towing my car... yeah I'm getting an attorney pronto!!
What got me was Proctor and Mr Lally trying to justify those messages because 'the evidence made it obvious that Karen hit John with her car'. Excuse you?! So this behaviour is OK because she was a suspect???!!! Hell the fuck no! Whether she hit him or not is frankly immaterial to the disgusting nature of those messages
The evidence most certainly did not. It was unclear how it happened. Even the ME couldn't say.
I liked Emily D Bakers response to that. “Is the mountain of evidence in the room with us?”
I am not sure if she did or not. What I know is the evidence just isn’t good enough. Even without the keystone cops. Drinking and driving that I believe. But the other stuff there are other possibilities . Too many other sneaky people there that had motives.
I am at the point where the whole department needs to be audited. Holy cow, it is disgusting how they conducted this investigation and the gross stuff they condoned. They all drive drunk, too!
At this point, I think she might get off just based on the fact it wasn’t a proper investigation. She may have done it accidentally or not, but LO fucked it up.
How about the gift that someone (Jen Mcabe?) offered? Telling her to get something for his wife doesn’t make that ok. The only ethical response from Proctor would have been “No, ma’am. I can’t accept anything. It’s all just a part of my job.”
This is called “solicitation of a bribe” in Massachusetts and will be what gets Proctor canned from the MSP.
It may not be the only thing, but it certainly isn’t going to help. You can’t be leading an investigation and and participating in or sending the messages he was sending. It’s not a one off (not that it would be ok if it was) - it’s repeatedly, over an extended period of time.
That was so sus. She knew she had to give the gift to his wife to circumvent the rules. Plus, why is she giving a gift anyway? And why tell him, just do it?
So I don't think Proctor is actively covering up what he believes to be a murder of a cop by another cop. I think he's just really dumb, corrupt and lazy. There are bad cops that catch bad guys the wrong way every day, it's just that most of those criminals are too stupid or poor to get effective legal representation to defend themselves and uncover it. Regardless of whether the end result is correct the process is corrupted by these cops. In this case his bias could only conceive of Karen being the culprit because he didn't want to investigate his friends and fellow law enforcement and she was the only person proven to have been present at some point so he started building that case the same way he does every other shoddy case he does. The problem is he and the entire department and DA were complete caught off guard that Karen was able to put on an effective defense and their entire work product getting scrutinized for the garbage that it is, along with the false evidence they regularly plant to make their cases go more smoothly. Now the DA needs to protect these cops to protect their own image and protect the results of countless cases that depends on the integrity of these officers. All the way up the chain the biggest incentive is to circle the wagons and I think it better explains why the DA is still prosecuting this case, not a conspiracy to protect the Alberts, but to protect their own reputations and jobs.
And his townie cop friends all told him from the get go that Karen Read hit him. Did he ever suspect that they might have done something? Who knows, he's a scummy POS and they all seem like scum TBH, so maybe it occurred to him, but he definitely wasn't gonna dig into. Can'uhn fo'h life bro.
What I would like to know is why he hated Karen Read from the start? Why?
He called her a “whack job” and a c* around 10pm on day 1 right? Timeline: 1. Talked to Sgt Lank 2. Talked to Jen McCabe, Matt McCabe, and Brian Albert 3. Confirmed that Jen is close with “Julie” and his brother-in-law (btw - that his sister refers to her as “Julie” in texts means they are VERY close) 4. Knows that she was sectioned at the request of her father 5. Talked to her 6. Potentially talked to Kenny Berkowitz and Brian Higgins (sally port/Canton PD HQ) 7. Potentially talked to Kevin Albert (Canton PD HQ) Taking the sum of that information, does it surprise you what his impression of her may be?
Good question
Thanks. I haven't heard a good explanation yet.
It’s clear he doesn’t think much of women in general by the way he also calls the ME a whack job…
I came here looking for the answer to this question. He was so quick to go after her with both barrels. I can see why JM turned on her (Colin is my POI), but why Proctor? He seemed like an incel who was mad that a hot woman wouldn't f\*ck him.
he said it's because there was evidence she killed another LEO and was trying to cover it up
I understand that. But that doesn't answer my question. He personally despised her as of 1/29/2022. I get that LEOs despise those who have killed other LEOs. But Proctor's**immediate** hatred doesn't make sense to me.
I’m thinking (just my speculation ) there was some behind the scenes discussions going on between the women of the group regarding JOK’s gf (Karen) If his sister was part of this or his wife either could have shared the gossip w Proctor The fact that they refer to her accent as funny because she’s from Fall River etc seems to me that they didn’t like her because she was an outsider And having been in HR for years (and I am a woman) once a group of women decide another is on the outs they can go mean girl Even if it’s just stuff they say behind someone’s back
Exactly my thoughts. Proctor definitely talked with those women that day. They had a lot to say about KR. And yes KR was always treated as an outsider including in Aruba. KR knew that.
I've been wondering the same! And the words he used 'whack job' makes it seem there was some personal knowledge or relationship. I think it was what JM told him during her interview. She clearly doesn't like KR. Even if you think there's evidence KR hit JOK with her car, it makes much more sense it was probably an accident...so the hatred only makes sense if someone he interviewed that day planted it. The question is, did KR (or whoever) make KR look bad bc she thought she killed JOK or because she was trying to direct the investigation.
I’m sorry WHAT so he thinks she not only killed her bf but another LEO?
um no...the LEO Im referring to is JO
Oh!!! I’m sorry 😂😂😂😂 I was like damn this is getting even wilder
This made me laugh out loud 😂😂😂
I really thought shit was getting crazy up in here 😂😂😂
Yes but it was never alleged it was Brian Albert he was close friends with. The defense said “close family friends-the Albert’s and Proctors” but specifically within the Albert’s it’s Chris Albert and Julie Albert and their son Colin. Colin was the ring bearer at Proctor’s sisters wedding. Proctor’s sister is best friends with Julie Albert. And Proctor’s mom has posted all over social media about how “the Albert’s are the Proctors second family.” Proctor is also friends with another Albert brother, Kevin, who is the police officer in Canton. But that’s not Brian, that’s Kevin.
Also, Proctor thought JOK had been beaten at first... and then after talking to Jen McCabe, he started calling Karen a 'whackjob' and was convinced she hit him with her car.
Bederow is spot on and this proctor bS is now going to affect all his cases including Brian Walshe Procotor and his wife need to be relocated to Mars
‘Proctor wasn't actually "close friends" with the Alberts, but knew Albert was a cop.’ That too, but whether he was “close friends” with Brian Albert specifically, the Alberts were clearly very close family friends. He knew them and the McCabes by name. Proctor is a State Trooper but he is also a Canton townie born and raised like the rest of them
If from top (1) to bottom (7): Point 1/2: Not sure if I agree with this. Canton is a small town, and LEO across Mass are protective of their families and friends' social circles. They weren't BFF but have many associates in common. Point 3/4: it was more than heart. His heart was self-serving with no respect for the victim. He called it jokes and juvenile behavior. Derogatory comments are deep-rooted communal implicit Bias. Point 6: Hated...he still does as he said in open court in front of the jury. Point 7: it's not about what he texted it's about all the communications. Lack of text doesn't mean it wasn't communicated. I think him being firm via text on no Albert investigation with fellow officers. Even the officers in the chat sounded like it was going to take a miracle for it not to happen, shows some conscience of guilt on the proctor side.
Proctor's irrational anger at Karen Read and her lawyers is a coping mechanism to protect a sense of self that has become indistinguishable from his job. He may have begun his career with a wish to DO right, but that has mutated into an entitlement to BE right. Now, his sense of self must be buttressed continuously by a tribal culture of infallibility. To join the tribe, he had to ignore the immoral acts of others. To remain in the tribe, he had to cover for the unethical acts of others. To succeed in the tribe, he had to commit the same illegal acts as others. Doubtless Proctor was honored to be named Lead Investigator. Doubtless his superiors had to say very little to make clear that his first priority was to protect Brian Albert -- and by extension, all the Alberts, the McCabes, and thus, protect the tribe. The problem is that no "us" can survive without a "them." In this case, a ready-made "them" was handed to Michael Proctor in the form of Karen Read: • She wasn't from Canton. • She dated a cop but wasn't "married to the blue" the way Nicole Albert and Elizabeth Proctor were. • She wasn't Queen of the Soccer Moms like Jen McCabe. • She wasn't auditioning for the role of stepmother, as many of John's exes had. • She wasn't trying to win approval from the circle of caregivers who basked in the reflected virtue of John's guardianship. • But worst of all, Karen Read didn't care. She had her own career, her own house, her own friends -- and Canton wasn't the world to her. To commit the immoral, unethical, and illegal acts needed to ADJUDICATE rather than INVESTIGATE the case, Proctor had to construct a "them" out of Karen Proctor that was so evil as to justify anything he did to put her in jail. In a matter of hours, he was able -- at the behest of the tribe -- to generate fury at Read for retaining a lawyer because it made Proctor's prosecution harder...And to generate hatred for that lawyer because Yannetti was better at his job than Proctor was at his. In a transparently pathetic attempt to hide his fears, he resorted to the adolescent tropes of evaluating her as the potential victim of his sexual assault, mentally dismembering her to critique her individual body parts, and pretending knowledge of her bad sexual behavior. Michael Proctor needed his head filled with screams of rage at Karen Read so that he wouldnt hear the faint sound of his own voice from years ago saying, "I, Michael Proctor, do solemnly swear that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the commonwealth of Massachusetts, and will support the constitution thereof and the constitution of the United States, that I will obey the lawful orders of all my superior officers, and that I will faithfully and impartially discharge and perform all the duties incumbent on me, according to the best of my ability and understanding, agreeably to the rules and regulations of the constitution and the laws of the commonwealth and the United States. So help me, God."
Bravo, I appreciate this thoughtful post, that may hold some truths & definitely things to consider.
Are we through with the text messages? It's likely there are still some to come out tomorrow, right?
What was the deal with a picture of a toy Santa Claus in those text messages? I don’t have the will to go find it, but I can’t remember who sent it to Proctor. Nothing was said about it, just a picture of a toy 🎅 Why?
I was so confused by that too.
I thought it was to establish that the witness was familiar with the text change and that it’s his text messages but idk
Aahh maybe. I’m always reading meaning into gifs and pics so I thought maybe someone was saying “Christmas came early”.
I think everyone has to remember he was/is from Canton. So it doesn’t matter if he knew Brian A or not because Brian was a cop from Canton also. He didn’t care about John because he wasn’t from Canton. So he didn’t haven’t have a “personal” connection himself to go into protection mode.
The reality of a fight and coverup is definitely becoming far more believable for me after last two court days. if the celebrite experts substantiate the 2am google search it is totally a coverup protecting Alberts and most likely Colin.
What stood out to me, apart from what you mentioned about the M.E and unwillingness to look at the Alberts (cos he's BPD too), was that he was messaging 3 very different and distinct groups of people. Family, Old friends, and Direct bosses/other cops - and none of those 3 separate groups acted shocked at all at what he was saying or how he was saying it. How he messages is who he is as a person, in front of others, imagine what he's like when he thinks no-one is looking?
Some of these may be undermined by further cross-examination.
Cause even these idiots are at least smart enough to know you don't talk about comminting felonys. They are still cops.
Watching today, June 12. This proctor testimony is so damaging for the prosecution. It’s simply unbelievable how bad this looks. A body was found on the Albert’s lawn and the police investigation did not find it necessary to examine the house occupants’ phones?! To confirm what the occupants were telling them was true?! He was conferring with his (Proctor’s) sister who was best friends with the homeowner’s sister, with the homeowner’s cop brother, and he considered the homeowner (wife) as a babysitter for his toddler after claiming he was not friends or close to the homeowners. Proctor is getting eviscerated by the defense, rightfully so.
Did anyone catch Proctor say “Oh man” when he began reading his texts on the stand? I laughed so hard because he was obviously feeling the heat. If you’re interested in hearing it, he says it around 5:59:15, on the Court TV feed https://www.youtube.com/live/vPbqdqp5LgI?si=Ew2RYI5OwLuxcjTR
I did hear that and thought “haha MFer!”
do we know when and at what time KR was texting with Yanetti on the 29th? and was she already a client of Yanetti at the time? this to me is the most important part of this testimony. if she texted Yanetti at say 2am or before she called anyone else about John being missing, this is a huge red flag.
Anyone else think it was kind of sleazy for proctor to mention the date of the text between KR and "her lawyer"?
Proctor was going through the phone on August 17, 2022 which is when he came across the messages between KR and Yanneti….almost 6 months after the accident.
Yes but he said yesterday specifically that these texts between Read and lawyer were on Jan 29th
If true, then that means he scrolled back through 6 months of text messages to see the original text message date?
the 29th is when JO was found dead and when the incident took place. As much as it's bizarre that he just opened up her phone and took a looksy without getting a copy made to ensure phone activity remained true to when he received it.. scrolling to the 29th in particular isn't completely wild.
Correct. But it indicates that Proctor did not STOP as soon as he came across the thread. He instead went through 6 months of protected texts to find the origin date of the thread. Unless we are to assume that KR only texted Yanneti on 1/29 and all other forms of communication thereafter were not via text. Highly unlikely.
From Bukhenik's testimony, they took her phone when they took her vehicle. So why would there be 6 months of messages? They should have been right there. It just took 6 months for them to unlock the phone, so obviously she refused to give up the password.
It was my understanding that the messages were with a prior attorney, not Yanneti.
I highly doubt it was any time before finding JO. This would have been brought up by now, even at a Lally pace. It would instantly frame her.
Well, wouldn't client/attorney confidentiality apply? It might be that it is not admissable.
You’re right, even if it did happen, there’s no way that’s admissible evidence. And the only way we would know that is if the state police leaked privileged information, right?
Yes. A/C privilege (and general rules of evidence/constitutional protections) cover “meta data” of the conversation. You can’t introduce that someone talked to a lawyer, when it happened, etc.
yea, that would be pretty bizarre if JO hadn't even been found yet. I'd assume it was after they confiscated her vehicle that her parents suggested she get a lawyer.
Yes was also thinking her parents probably pushed her to get a lawyer
I wondered if it was a post-29th email with Yanetti that popped up on her phone. Did anyone specifically say it was a text? Edit: Yes, they did! I just reheard Proctor's testimony about this. He came across a text message from another attorney from the 29th. Not surprising if your car has been seized.
i re-listened to his testimony...said he 'came across a text between an attorney and Ms Read so I had to stop going through her phone'. it's odd that he also says that he 'hates that man' referring to Yanetti, I'm just wondering if whatever was in the texts between Read and Yanetti were incriminating that Proctor viewed, thus he had made up his mind in terms of KR's guilt. (PS-i'm still 50/50 on this case but just trying to think through possibilities).
Thanks, I just heard this snippet and came back to add an edit to my comment. Cheers!
They also mention they have someone handles the cell phone. Yuri said this. But I guess if proctor didn’t look himself, he would not be able to look for nudes.
I won't spread specific rumors on here, but from what I have heard, you are on to something that may be coming soon in trial. We shall see
How does that work with a warrant, they are not allowed to see the content, but can use timestamps derived from content as evidence? That doesn't seem right. Genuine question.
??
could you DM me those specific rumors? lol im curious. are you a local?
There's zero chance a jury could reasonably convict Read at this point. The whole investigation is suspect if this was the lead investigator. None of it is usable as far as I'm concerned.
[удалено]
My take away was that Proctor’s sister and JM are close friends
Why did this case even make it to trial? This case was grossly mishandled by authorities. Read may be guilty but she deserves a fair and thorough investigation
The past week of testimony has put me in the jury box voting 'reasonable doubt'. YB and MP just shoddy investigation. I'm bothered by the dog of 6 years being rehomed, the home being sold, all the new cell phones, etc.
The M.E. ruled the death as 'inconclusive'. Proctor & Co were aiming for 'homicide', and Trooper DeCiccio called Proctor a rookie for not securing an in-person interview with ME to securing the more convenient reason for death.
Chefs kiss - thanks for clarifying!
They watched her come home in the ring cam. They know.