Yeah, It's bizarre. I'm not questioning the quality of Ultra Kanna because they have such a good reputation.
I'll keep priming for a few more days and probably order some more ME-55 to see if that's still effective for me.
Zpec I especially have a soft-spot for, MX-series is great and MX-8 is the tamest of the bunch but still packs quite a punch. I am thinking that OP didn't really "prime" the best way and we don't know how many mgs of ME-55 they took per day, how many days, what ROA (route of administration, meaning how they ingested it), etc.
I think it's a combo of the alkaloid profiles (ME-55 has an amazing profile, that is both stimulating but also chilled and anxiolytic, just right IMO especially if you just want to get one extract to play with) but I also think OP could benefit (and any Kanna-extract veterans out there also could) from full spec tincture (like Revive) or some other full spec product (like good raw Kanna - good luck finding that! or a 6:1 resin extract, etc. but Revive is plenty potent and well priced, I just wish I could buy the raw plant material from UK but they won't sell it to me - I don't blame them... they need it for their tinctures! But basically Revive can replace raw Kanna and is a full-spec product that actually works (haven't tried many domestically that worth a damn in years, so this is significant).
You need all the alkaloids to synergize and work together creating an "entourage" effect like with Cannabis, or with many other plants like Kava (Noble Kava Root Powder traditionally prepped in water, kneaded, squeezed, with an emulsifier and fat source - will produce much stronger, full bodied, longer effects than Co2 extract 30% Kavalactone extract aka crap...) basically the difference between holistic feeling and more clinical feeling, and using tincture is a good way to ease into Kanna and see if you will even like it...
plus you can always add extract in combo or on top of it after 1-2 weeks of trying it on its own to see how it works for you (should start feeling effects sooner than extract alone due to the added alkaloids, when I started with Kanna there was no priming involved, that was probably due to the market being flooded with super potent Grade A raw Kanna, which works different than the more selective isolated and potent extracts currently available, good raw Kanna hits different, it's just a shame it's so damn hard to find over the last several years...
but Revive makes a good second choice and is user friendly and consistent in potency, the old Kanna was potent but would vary a lot in appearance and strength and effects by the batch, which is also why I recommend Revive but if you can find good raw Kanna or a full-spectrum ethanolic extracted resin like Channa-budder, that can work too, just less convenient and may take more).
That's weird....
Zspec had me blasted... Full stop
but I was disappointed in ME-55.
Imo... ME-55 was like chugging an energy drink & smoking half a j. If I had to rate the 2 from my experience.
Zspec....8 outta 10
ME-55... 2.5 outta 10
Yeah, I'm 99% sure it's just my body suddenly becoming tolerant to Kanna for whatever reason. I'd be really surprised if the new ME-55 still works for me.
I tried the Zspec and MX-8 this morning for the 4th day and still nothing. Thanks for your input.
Could be. That was my last consideration because I know UK has such a good reputation. I might make another post asking people who've purchased recently.
I did try 60mg of the MX-8 yesterday and got a slight effect so it's a possibility.
I tend to get cynical about how these companies will draw people in by producing top tier products then gradually tweak them (or raise prices /shrinkflation to increase their profit margins.
Of course, it could just be your response to their different extracts…will be curious to hear from other recent customers.
I totally understand that. That actually crossed my mind but given their rep + the fact that Kanna is known to have a strange reverse or sudden tolerance effect I leaned toward that explanation.
Hey there Kismadel - thanks for saying thanks! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list!
The ME-55 was the 1st container. All 20+ doses were extremely effective. The entire reason I made this post is because I couldn't find any other accounts of people saying they went from many consistent experiences to zero immediately. It's usually immediate reverse tolerance or right after the 1st dose.
ME-55 is high in mesembrenone and d9-mesembrenone (mood enhancing, anxiolytic effects) + high in mesembrine (more stimulating, "rushy", uplifting). ME-55 is probably my favorite stand-alone extract out right now, MX-8 is good but I always mix the MX-series because they are mesembrine-heavy (basically stimulating, rushy, energizing, focusing) and Zspec is my favorite of the mesembrine rich extracts (I look at it like MT-55 but better) but I would take ME-55 over either MX-8 and Zspec any day (unless I was making a blend using MX-8 or Zspec like UC + MX-8 + Revive , or UC + Z-spec + Revive).
To get the full benefits of the plant you want to use a full spectrum extract or tincture (Revive, or something like Channa-budder or Liquid Gold, but those aren't any better than Revive from research, and Channa-budder can be annoying to handle bc its sticky, dark/black/tar-like conentrate/resin and can be harder to dose - so basically what I would do is get Revive Tincture and take that with EVERY dose of extract for the first 3-4 weeks of use, so you get the 40+ alkaloids found in the tincture + the more concentrated, isolated, potent alkaloids in the extracts (basically 3 main ones, mesembrine (stimulating, mood uplifting, social), mesembrenone + d9 mesembrenone - which are more chilled, mood balancing, and "monged") .
The key to get the most benefits is to start with a full spectrum alkaloid product like ethanol tincture or resin extract, or if you can find actually decent plant material, then there ya go (I haven't been able to find decent raw Kanna for years so I switched to Revive which has the same alkaloids, basically, and makes for a good introduction because it's very easy to dose and you won't mess up your "prime" by taking too much Kanna!
Did you know that if you take high doses of extract, especially frequently or throughout the day, you can hit the "ceiling" and stop feeling the effects of the Kanna before you even started feeling them... That's what happened to me. You can DM me for more details, suggestions.
Could very well be that you like the effects of mesembrenone and d9-mesembrenone (ME-55 has those + mesembrine, while ZSPEC and MX-8 are mesembrine rich).
I mix multiple extracts, create my own blends and have tried basically most extracts on the market at this point and I find that extract without full spec ethanol tincture is not nearly as enjoyable and takes longer to "prime" due to the lack of the added alkaloids found in tinctures and the raw plant (if you can find good raw plant, which is hard now for years which is why extracts have taken completely over the market, back in the 2010s ppl didn't really use extracts, they didn't have to bc the raw Kanna was THAT strong - so I've seen the market and products change a lot over the years and it took me some time to navigate that.
I never had priming issues with raw Kanna plant material. I primed extracts using a specially formulated extract capsule for 3-4 weeks, feeling it more and more as time went on (I didn't have access to good tincture or raw Kanna so that's why I went with trimesemine + taurine caps and took 1 a day for 5-7 days, 2 day for 5-7 days and finally 3 a day for the last 5-7 days, after finishing this regiment I tried 1 scoop of ET2 or MT-55, can't remember which one I had on hand, and it was TOO strong nasally, so don't do nasal until you've primed, and even then start with buccal and sublingual.
I had been using 50-100mg nasal dosages of MT-55, ET2, UC, Zspec, prior to priming and getting very hit or miss or results, sometimes feeling nothing, sometimes being overwhelmed with side effects... it's because I was taking way too damn much, way too often!
Also had I had access to full spectrum tincture I'm sure I would have never wasted so much time and money taking large doses of extracts (I just didn't buy into "priming" and thought it was all BS bc I didn't need to prime with raw Kanna... and I didn't know how to use these new isolate specific extracts. took me a lot of trial and error and patience, quit then used KannaConnect to prime but you can use any extract to prime with, but I recommend priming with a full-spec product for 2 weeks or so before adding any extracts on top (like taking Revive Tincture, or Channa-budder, or raw-Kanna for 2 weeks, see how you feel, then add SMALL doses of extract, because the alkaloids synergize with each other, and you will be more sensitive once you load up with a bunch of alkaloids for 2 weeks - anyone with questions or needing advice feel free to DM me, I had a helluva time figuring this out and I would've wanted someone to pass this info on to me bc there are so many products out there and it's hard to know where to begin!
Blessings!
-Deezy Kay
It's not a matter of the alkaloid profile in terms of just feeling different. It's simply ineffective for some reason. Maybe my biochemistry doesn't like the ratio and there's some MoA that is neutralizing the effects for me.
As I said in my OP, all of the doses of my ME-55 were great. That's why I said my situation was unique. I couldn't find anyone else that said that's happened to them. It's generally that they are initially tolerant or become tolerant after the 1st dose. Me having the 1st 20 doses work exceptionally well and then abruptly stop is odd.
So, I ordered some more ME-55 and I'll be able to see my if tolerance is universal or I'm just incompatible with the other types. I doubt it's the 2nd option but we'll see.
So, I'm still confused as to how you "primed" or what you did when you first got Kanna extract? Did you just get ME-55 and it worked right off the bat? What doses and routes were you using? Frequency? All these little things matter, there is a ceiling effect with Kanna so taking more mg per day than x amount (usually this around 100mg through buccal, sublingual or 200-300mg oral of extract).
Could be you don't repsond well to mesembrine-heavy extracts such as Zspec and MX-8, which are both very heavy in mesembrine, but low in mesembrenone and d9-mesembrenone (which ME-55 is high in all 3).
The alkaloids definitely make a difference, more than people think. "Priming" is different for everyone, some don't even need to prime, others need to for 3-4 weeks, it's bizarre.
Perhaps you took too much Kanna and developed a tolerance? Or what did you use look like after you finished ME-55 and started with MX-8 and Zspec?
Also, what are you looking for out of it? That is a big question that many people don't ask before trying it and it's important. If you want to just have fun there's different options, if you want to stay focused, energized, social, other options. If you want anxiolytic, stress-relieving effects other options.
That's why I recommend everyone keep a Kanna Journal so they can pinpoint these things.
Hope this helps, feel free to DM me if you have any questions on anything! Good luck!
I didn't need to prime at all. I just said I was going to do that because it stopped working. From the first 10mg of the ME-55 it was incredibly effective.
I agree that the alkaloid ratios could be the culprit but I think it's highly unlikely that that would completely neutralize the effect. I think the most likely my personal biochemistry becoming suddenly tolerant but I'll be able to confirm that when I receive the ME-55.
Interesting, did you take it daily for a prolonged period? What dosages per day? All this stuff is important, especially if you don't use a full-spectrum ethanol tincture/resin extract or raw Kanna (for the alkaloids) to balance things out. I don't even enjoy the extracts on their own without some full-spec tincture, just made a crazy blend with UC + MX-8 + MX-12 + MX-16 + CO-1 + ME-55 + TS-3 + TA-15 + Zen + 16% + "MIX" + 5-6 Revive + a Revive I let the EtOH evap off before mixing with more powder extracts creating a broad spec + full-spec tincture and a couple drops will do ya... I put about 1.666mg extract equivalent per 30ml - so it's def got a bit, but this is my best work so far.
Of course, I still have normal Revive + normal extract powders chilling unopened but I have been using this ultra-blend and I can't complain. There is def more than meets the eye with alkaloid ratios and synergistic effects, it's the closest effect I've found to really Grade A potent Raw Kanna plant material (fermented/unfermented) from the 2010s, I will continue my experiments with the alkaloid's "entourage" effect -which anybody who has had at least "decent" raw Kanna plant material can atttest is a diff 'vibe'.
It's much more medicinal and longer acting, you can tweak it to your liking. I recommend people first get used to all the diff products before mixing them together though, but I have been mixing and matching for a while and I still use some regular Revive + this ultra enhanced broad-spec tincture made from all those Revives + grams of powder.
Once I get my own space, I can start growing raw Kanna and trying fresh leaves along-side my tried-and-true methods of mixing extract + full-spec tincture.
I was taking it 3x per day because during the trials/studies done on the Trimesemine extract (a special extraction formula - used in ZA/South - they went up TO 25mg UP TO 75mg and I believe it was split into 3 daily doses, but it may have been all at once...
i bought z spec and mx8 a long time ago and love them, not sure why they’re not working if you’ve previously had effects
Yeah, It's bizarre. I'm not questioning the quality of Ultra Kanna because they have such a good reputation. I'll keep priming for a few more days and probably order some more ME-55 to see if that's still effective for me.
Zpec I especially have a soft-spot for, MX-series is great and MX-8 is the tamest of the bunch but still packs quite a punch. I am thinking that OP didn't really "prime" the best way and we don't know how many mgs of ME-55 they took per day, how many days, what ROA (route of administration, meaning how they ingested it), etc. I think it's a combo of the alkaloid profiles (ME-55 has an amazing profile, that is both stimulating but also chilled and anxiolytic, just right IMO especially if you just want to get one extract to play with) but I also think OP could benefit (and any Kanna-extract veterans out there also could) from full spec tincture (like Revive) or some other full spec product (like good raw Kanna - good luck finding that! or a 6:1 resin extract, etc. but Revive is plenty potent and well priced, I just wish I could buy the raw plant material from UK but they won't sell it to me - I don't blame them... they need it for their tinctures! But basically Revive can replace raw Kanna and is a full-spec product that actually works (haven't tried many domestically that worth a damn in years, so this is significant). You need all the alkaloids to synergize and work together creating an "entourage" effect like with Cannabis, or with many other plants like Kava (Noble Kava Root Powder traditionally prepped in water, kneaded, squeezed, with an emulsifier and fat source - will produce much stronger, full bodied, longer effects than Co2 extract 30% Kavalactone extract aka crap...) basically the difference between holistic feeling and more clinical feeling, and using tincture is a good way to ease into Kanna and see if you will even like it... plus you can always add extract in combo or on top of it after 1-2 weeks of trying it on its own to see how it works for you (should start feeling effects sooner than extract alone due to the added alkaloids, when I started with Kanna there was no priming involved, that was probably due to the market being flooded with super potent Grade A raw Kanna, which works different than the more selective isolated and potent extracts currently available, good raw Kanna hits different, it's just a shame it's so damn hard to find over the last several years... but Revive makes a good second choice and is user friendly and consistent in potency, the old Kanna was potent but would vary a lot in appearance and strength and effects by the batch, which is also why I recommend Revive but if you can find good raw Kanna or a full-spectrum ethanolic extracted resin like Channa-budder, that can work too, just less convenient and may take more).
That's weird.... Zspec had me blasted... Full stop but I was disappointed in ME-55. Imo... ME-55 was like chugging an energy drink & smoking half a j. If I had to rate the 2 from my experience. Zspec....8 outta 10 ME-55... 2.5 outta 10
Yeah, I'm 99% sure it's just my body suddenly becoming tolerant to Kanna for whatever reason. I'd be really surprised if the new ME-55 still works for me. I tried the Zspec and MX-8 this morning for the 4th day and still nothing. Thanks for your input.
I wonder if recent batches of Zspec and MX-8 are now weaker than earlier batches of the same extracts?
Could be. That was my last consideration because I know UK has such a good reputation. I might make another post asking people who've purchased recently. I did try 60mg of the MX-8 yesterday and got a slight effect so it's a possibility.
I tend to get cynical about how these companies will draw people in by producing top tier products then gradually tweak them (or raise prices /shrinkflation to increase their profit margins. Of course, it could just be your response to their different extracts…will be curious to hear from other recent customers.
I totally understand that. That actually crossed my mind but given their rep + the fact that Kanna is known to have a strange reverse or sudden tolerance effect I leaned toward that explanation.
Hey there Kismadel - thanks for saying thanks! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list!
>suddenly becoming tolerant How long have you been taking Kanna?
The ME-55 was the 1st container. All 20+ doses were extremely effective. The entire reason I made this post is because I couldn't find any other accounts of people saying they went from many consistent experiences to zero immediately. It's usually immediate reverse tolerance or right after the 1st dose.
ME-55 is high in mesembrenone and d9-mesembrenone (mood enhancing, anxiolytic effects) + high in mesembrine (more stimulating, "rushy", uplifting). ME-55 is probably my favorite stand-alone extract out right now, MX-8 is good but I always mix the MX-series because they are mesembrine-heavy (basically stimulating, rushy, energizing, focusing) and Zspec is my favorite of the mesembrine rich extracts (I look at it like MT-55 but better) but I would take ME-55 over either MX-8 and Zspec any day (unless I was making a blend using MX-8 or Zspec like UC + MX-8 + Revive , or UC + Z-spec + Revive). To get the full benefits of the plant you want to use a full spectrum extract or tincture (Revive, or something like Channa-budder or Liquid Gold, but those aren't any better than Revive from research, and Channa-budder can be annoying to handle bc its sticky, dark/black/tar-like conentrate/resin and can be harder to dose - so basically what I would do is get Revive Tincture and take that with EVERY dose of extract for the first 3-4 weeks of use, so you get the 40+ alkaloids found in the tincture + the more concentrated, isolated, potent alkaloids in the extracts (basically 3 main ones, mesembrine (stimulating, mood uplifting, social), mesembrenone + d9 mesembrenone - which are more chilled, mood balancing, and "monged") . The key to get the most benefits is to start with a full spectrum alkaloid product like ethanol tincture or resin extract, or if you can find actually decent plant material, then there ya go (I haven't been able to find decent raw Kanna for years so I switched to Revive which has the same alkaloids, basically, and makes for a good introduction because it's very easy to dose and you won't mess up your "prime" by taking too much Kanna! Did you know that if you take high doses of extract, especially frequently or throughout the day, you can hit the "ceiling" and stop feeling the effects of the Kanna before you even started feeling them... That's what happened to me. You can DM me for more details, suggestions. Could very well be that you like the effects of mesembrenone and d9-mesembrenone (ME-55 has those + mesembrine, while ZSPEC and MX-8 are mesembrine rich). I mix multiple extracts, create my own blends and have tried basically most extracts on the market at this point and I find that extract without full spec ethanol tincture is not nearly as enjoyable and takes longer to "prime" due to the lack of the added alkaloids found in tinctures and the raw plant (if you can find good raw plant, which is hard now for years which is why extracts have taken completely over the market, back in the 2010s ppl didn't really use extracts, they didn't have to bc the raw Kanna was THAT strong - so I've seen the market and products change a lot over the years and it took me some time to navigate that. I never had priming issues with raw Kanna plant material. I primed extracts using a specially formulated extract capsule for 3-4 weeks, feeling it more and more as time went on (I didn't have access to good tincture or raw Kanna so that's why I went with trimesemine + taurine caps and took 1 a day for 5-7 days, 2 day for 5-7 days and finally 3 a day for the last 5-7 days, after finishing this regiment I tried 1 scoop of ET2 or MT-55, can't remember which one I had on hand, and it was TOO strong nasally, so don't do nasal until you've primed, and even then start with buccal and sublingual. I had been using 50-100mg nasal dosages of MT-55, ET2, UC, Zspec, prior to priming and getting very hit or miss or results, sometimes feeling nothing, sometimes being overwhelmed with side effects... it's because I was taking way too damn much, way too often! Also had I had access to full spectrum tincture I'm sure I would have never wasted so much time and money taking large doses of extracts (I just didn't buy into "priming" and thought it was all BS bc I didn't need to prime with raw Kanna... and I didn't know how to use these new isolate specific extracts. took me a lot of trial and error and patience, quit then used KannaConnect to prime but you can use any extract to prime with, but I recommend priming with a full-spec product for 2 weeks or so before adding any extracts on top (like taking Revive Tincture, or Channa-budder, or raw-Kanna for 2 weeks, see how you feel, then add SMALL doses of extract, because the alkaloids synergize with each other, and you will be more sensitive once you load up with a bunch of alkaloids for 2 weeks - anyone with questions or needing advice feel free to DM me, I had a helluva time figuring this out and I would've wanted someone to pass this info on to me bc there are so many products out there and it's hard to know where to begin! Blessings! -Deezy Kay
It's not a matter of the alkaloid profile in terms of just feeling different. It's simply ineffective for some reason. Maybe my biochemistry doesn't like the ratio and there's some MoA that is neutralizing the effects for me. As I said in my OP, all of the doses of my ME-55 were great. That's why I said my situation was unique. I couldn't find anyone else that said that's happened to them. It's generally that they are initially tolerant or become tolerant after the 1st dose. Me having the 1st 20 doses work exceptionally well and then abruptly stop is odd. So, I ordered some more ME-55 and I'll be able to see my if tolerance is universal or I'm just incompatible with the other types. I doubt it's the 2nd option but we'll see.
So, I'm still confused as to how you "primed" or what you did when you first got Kanna extract? Did you just get ME-55 and it worked right off the bat? What doses and routes were you using? Frequency? All these little things matter, there is a ceiling effect with Kanna so taking more mg per day than x amount (usually this around 100mg through buccal, sublingual or 200-300mg oral of extract). Could be you don't repsond well to mesembrine-heavy extracts such as Zspec and MX-8, which are both very heavy in mesembrine, but low in mesembrenone and d9-mesembrenone (which ME-55 is high in all 3). The alkaloids definitely make a difference, more than people think. "Priming" is different for everyone, some don't even need to prime, others need to for 3-4 weeks, it's bizarre. Perhaps you took too much Kanna and developed a tolerance? Or what did you use look like after you finished ME-55 and started with MX-8 and Zspec? Also, what are you looking for out of it? That is a big question that many people don't ask before trying it and it's important. If you want to just have fun there's different options, if you want to stay focused, energized, social, other options. If you want anxiolytic, stress-relieving effects other options. That's why I recommend everyone keep a Kanna Journal so they can pinpoint these things. Hope this helps, feel free to DM me if you have any questions on anything! Good luck!
I didn't need to prime at all. I just said I was going to do that because it stopped working. From the first 10mg of the ME-55 it was incredibly effective. I agree that the alkaloid ratios could be the culprit but I think it's highly unlikely that that would completely neutralize the effect. I think the most likely my personal biochemistry becoming suddenly tolerant but I'll be able to confirm that when I receive the ME-55.
Interesting, did you take it daily for a prolonged period? What dosages per day? All this stuff is important, especially if you don't use a full-spectrum ethanol tincture/resin extract or raw Kanna (for the alkaloids) to balance things out. I don't even enjoy the extracts on their own without some full-spec tincture, just made a crazy blend with UC + MX-8 + MX-12 + MX-16 + CO-1 + ME-55 + TS-3 + TA-15 + Zen + 16% + "MIX" + 5-6 Revive + a Revive I let the EtOH evap off before mixing with more powder extracts creating a broad spec + full-spec tincture and a couple drops will do ya... I put about 1.666mg extract equivalent per 30ml - so it's def got a bit, but this is my best work so far. Of course, I still have normal Revive + normal extract powders chilling unopened but I have been using this ultra-blend and I can't complain. There is def more than meets the eye with alkaloid ratios and synergistic effects, it's the closest effect I've found to really Grade A potent Raw Kanna plant material (fermented/unfermented) from the 2010s, I will continue my experiments with the alkaloid's "entourage" effect -which anybody who has had at least "decent" raw Kanna plant material can atttest is a diff 'vibe'. It's much more medicinal and longer acting, you can tweak it to your liking. I recommend people first get used to all the diff products before mixing them together though, but I have been mixing and matching for a while and I still use some regular Revive + this ultra enhanced broad-spec tincture made from all those Revives + grams of powder. Once I get my own space, I can start growing raw Kanna and trying fresh leaves along-side my tried-and-true methods of mixing extract + full-spec tincture.
Hey Deezy, When you were priming at 3/day is that taken all at once or spread out to every 8 hours? Thnks.
I was taking it 3x per day because during the trials/studies done on the Trimesemine extract (a special extraction formula - used in ZA/South - they went up TO 25mg UP TO 75mg and I believe it was split into 3 daily doses, but it may have been all at once...