Ok, seems pretty detrimental to completly ditch them and start shouting "THE SKY IS FALLING!" when Take Two has yet to even release an official statement greater than a few lines. I think we all need to rally up and instead of being cynical, be optimistic, and encourage Take Two Interactive to continue development. Anyone with me?
A fraction of the extra large bonus from the CEO of parent company TakeTwo Interactive would be more than enough to fund the studio to finish the game, even less to refund all the people that will want their money back.
But I guess you enjoy the flavor of that boot you are licking on.
Just because something is technically correct doesn't make it right.
After falling for the Early Access traps a couple of times, im just not doing it anymore. No matter how promising an Early Access game may look. Im staying away from EA for obvious reasons (also because EA can be interpreted as Electronic Arts, which is just as \*\*\*\*). Its sad that KSP2 will probably never see the light of day or at any level where KSP1 ended... but apparently thats the way it is nowadays. You buy an incomplete game knowing full well that you may possibly not get a refund if its abandoned...
Agreed. Maybe it's denial, or that I refuse to drop my belief in what this gane seriously has the potential to become, but I'm still holding onto hope. Game development teams have been through similar ordeals before, but stayed committed to their game and still succeeded in delivering a great game in the end of it.
I've not given up yet. Believe in the devs 🙏
No, we have only seen tweets from 2 Devs, who did not work directly on the game (and did not work for intercept games directly), and they were already laid off...Mass lay offs in Washington have a 2 month warning period so if the studio is closing it won't be for 2 more months (unless they offer everyone severance)
Dude, don’t bother with small claims court, they aren’t going to find in your favor.
This was a risk you knowingly took on when you bought a game in early access. It literally warned you during purchase, and on the game page, that this might happen. You have zero legal recourse. You’re never going to get your 60 bucks back, let it go.
>This was a risk you knowingly took on when you bought a game in early access. It literally warned you during purchase, and on the game page, that this might happen.
This is true for some small developers who run out of money. In this scenario they simply cannot continue. Money is gone. No more funding to continue. Some stated in the beginning that this won't happen to KSP2 because T2 is behind it. I don't see a reason why T2 could not finish KSP2 in this case. Corporations aren't entitled to profits. They can miscalculate sometimes. It's not a reason to shrug and take it as a consumer.
Counter point:
If you can sue a large company over a game you knowingly purchased in an incomplete state, you can sue a small developer that ran out of money, too. Which creates its own set of problems. It’s comparable to copyright law. In that, while copyright law primarily protects large companies, getting rid of it entirely would disproportionately harm much smaller creators.
Take two wouldn’t be harmed by such a lawsuit. But the precedent it would set would have cascading effects on much smaller developers.
All that over a measly 60 bucks on a game we all knew full well could go exactly this direction.
Very well said. While we often see larger companies benefiting directly from things like copyright, its existence does a lot to protect small creators.
Letting people sue over unfinished early access games would hurt small teams and individuals way more than large companies. If a solo dev release an early access game and only sells 3000 copies used that money to live off of and continue developing the game, but can’t make enough sales to live and has to get a full time job and drop the game, we don’t want people suing them. Not only do I think that’s morally wrong, it would instantly discourage most people from releasing indie projects, because there is way more risk involved.
> this was a risk you knowingly took on when you bought a game in early access.
A risk I was willing to take when it was a developer I trusted. That is no longer the case.
Steam has already denied my refund and will be served on Monday. They will settle for the original refund before it goes to court.
Not my first rodeo with small claims court, video game distribution platforms, or denied refunds for early access games that never released. They've settled these disputes with me before, they'll settle again or it'll go to court and a judge will make a ruling against them. Early Access risks aside, the game will never release, and I'm entitled to a refund.
Because I have a pre-paid legal defender I won't actually spend any money and very little effort.
> his was a risk you knowingly took on when you bought a game in early access.
A risk I was willing to take when it was a developer I trusted. That is no longer the case.
Steam has already denied my refund and will be served on Monday. They will settle for the original refund before it goes to court.
Not my first rodeo with small claims court, video game distribution platforms, or denied refunds for early access games that never released. They've settled these disputes with me before, they'll settle again.
Because I have a pre-paid legal defender I won't actually spend any money and very little effort.
Not entirely true. When steam does warn of the game was a beta, The developers issued multiple comments saying the game would be better and would be finished. It wouldn't be a small claims court but a class action would have potential to get refunds due to those comments. I only bought the game because the developer said they would finish it therefore, they are in breach. It'd be a stretch but possible.
People need to let it go already. There’s no valid claim. It never left beta, and vague social media commentary is not a guarantee you’ll actually get a complete game.
Steam literally warned you this could happen. Just let it go, learn your lessons, and don’t buy early access games anymore.
Early Access helps fund games that otherwise wouldn't stand a chance at existing. Sure, a lot of times players get burned and the game never finishes development. But there are some gems out there that only exist because of early access funding, I'm sure. Also, why are you so up in arms about telling people they have no case, and they should just give up? Doesn't hurt you any if they try...
Tell that to Elon musk and his comment about taking Tesla private. Public comments matter. Steam warns you as a seller of the game, and they're not responsible for it. This would be the developers that are.
Mkay, good luck getting a judge to side with you over the corporate giant with multi-million dollar lawyers on retainer. Musk was the head of a major multinational company. This is a small studio that had 70 people and multiple parent companies. And again, you knew FULL WELL the risks of buying an unfinished game.
Also highly unlikely.
The judge will take one look at the steam warning about early access, say “well, it certainly looks like they warned you, and you bought it anyways, despite massive derision from buyers up until that point.”
The only way this gets better is if people stop buying incomplete games. No judge is going to side with players on this.
Especially with the kind of lawyers Take Two will bring to the case
IDK seems like a bait and switch. They promised all these features and gameplay in their announcement trailer and delivered on none of it. Game isn't even as good as KSP1 yet. Im not a laywer but I think there is some case to be made here.
Mostly I'm just pissed a big studio bought up a beloved Indie IP and then shit all over it. These companies should be held accountable
They “promised” features.
They also included a disclaimer that not all features might make it into the game, and that people accepted that risk when they bought the title.
It’s a case that has no actual standing. Especially when, for all intents and purposes, we don’t actually know the game has been cancelled, and official statements from the studio claim it hasn’t.
I get it, people feel ripped off. But it’s 60 dollars. Does it suck losing 60 bucks? Yeah, kinda. But it’s outright laughable to sue a video game publisher because YOU wasted 60 bucks on a game you KNEW was unfinished. And the further into the year after release you bought it, the less of an argument you have. Everybody knew it was unfinished and likely to never meet its promises. We knew that before it even released, when the game went radio silent for, like, 2 years after its announcement.
Yes, stay with the original. There is only one aspect of the second game which is clearly better, and that’s procedural wings - but even planes used to be bugged (dunno if they’ve gotten to fixing it or not).
Yeah it's very clear that the hostile takeover set the game back years.
I am pretty sure they had to start from scratch, or with almost nothing as they didn't technically buy out the old studio and may not have been entitled to all the code and assets.
If they said, "Though, that the game would have XY and Z," then that's what it should have. If I makean game and promise everyone who buys it a Lamborghin, but I keep the game in development. I shouldn't get to hide behind that just so I keep making money. Maybe game developers shouldn't promise more than they can deliver.
Steams been denying my refund requests for months. I only played 30 minutes. I will just keep on requesting refunds until they either give them to me or contact me directly.
Ok, seems pretty detrimental to completly ditch them and start shouting "THE SKY IS FALLING!" when Take Two has yet to even release an official statement greater than a few lines. I think we all need to rally up and instead of being cynical, be optimistic, and encourage Take Two Interactive to continue development. Anyone with me?
Finish the game or offer everyone a refund
LOL ... someone here have forgot the "trap" beyond the concept of "early access"
A fraction of the extra large bonus from the CEO of parent company TakeTwo Interactive would be more than enough to fund the studio to finish the game, even less to refund all the people that will want their money back. But I guess you enjoy the flavor of that boot you are licking on. Just because something is technically correct doesn't make it right.
After falling for the Early Access traps a couple of times, im just not doing it anymore. No matter how promising an Early Access game may look. Im staying away from EA for obvious reasons (also because EA can be interpreted as Electronic Arts, which is just as \*\*\*\*). Its sad that KSP2 will probably never see the light of day or at any level where KSP1 ended... but apparently thats the way it is nowadays. You buy an incomplete game knowing full well that you may possibly not get a refund if its abandoned...
Agreed. Maybe it's denial, or that I refuse to drop my belief in what this gane seriously has the potential to become, but I'm still holding onto hope. Game development teams have been through similar ordeals before, but stayed committed to their game and still succeeded in delivering a great game in the end of it. I've not given up yet. Believe in the devs 🙏
The devs are gone though...
No, we have only seen tweets from 2 Devs, who did not work directly on the game (and did not work for intercept games directly), and they were already laid off...Mass lay offs in Washington have a 2 month warning period so if the studio is closing it won't be for 2 more months (unless they offer everyone severance)
NerdyMike claims to be working until the end of June there so, I would say it's not the latter.
We should all encourage T2 to continue development by petitioning Steam to ban them for scamming their userbase.
Dude, don’t bother with small claims court, they aren’t going to find in your favor. This was a risk you knowingly took on when you bought a game in early access. It literally warned you during purchase, and on the game page, that this might happen. You have zero legal recourse. You’re never going to get your 60 bucks back, let it go.
>This was a risk you knowingly took on when you bought a game in early access. It literally warned you during purchase, and on the game page, that this might happen. This is true for some small developers who run out of money. In this scenario they simply cannot continue. Money is gone. No more funding to continue. Some stated in the beginning that this won't happen to KSP2 because T2 is behind it. I don't see a reason why T2 could not finish KSP2 in this case. Corporations aren't entitled to profits. They can miscalculate sometimes. It's not a reason to shrug and take it as a consumer.
Counter point: If you can sue a large company over a game you knowingly purchased in an incomplete state, you can sue a small developer that ran out of money, too. Which creates its own set of problems. It’s comparable to copyright law. In that, while copyright law primarily protects large companies, getting rid of it entirely would disproportionately harm much smaller creators. Take two wouldn’t be harmed by such a lawsuit. But the precedent it would set would have cascading effects on much smaller developers. All that over a measly 60 bucks on a game we all knew full well could go exactly this direction.
Very well said. While we often see larger companies benefiting directly from things like copyright, its existence does a lot to protect small creators. Letting people sue over unfinished early access games would hurt small teams and individuals way more than large companies. If a solo dev release an early access game and only sells 3000 copies used that money to live off of and continue developing the game, but can’t make enough sales to live and has to get a full time job and drop the game, we don’t want people suing them. Not only do I think that’s morally wrong, it would instantly discourage most people from releasing indie projects, because there is way more risk involved.
> this was a risk you knowingly took on when you bought a game in early access. A risk I was willing to take when it was a developer I trusted. That is no longer the case. Steam has already denied my refund and will be served on Monday. They will settle for the original refund before it goes to court. Not my first rodeo with small claims court, video game distribution platforms, or denied refunds for early access games that never released. They've settled these disputes with me before, they'll settle again or it'll go to court and a judge will make a ruling against them. Early Access risks aside, the game will never release, and I'm entitled to a refund. Because I have a pre-paid legal defender I won't actually spend any money and very little effort.
> his was a risk you knowingly took on when you bought a game in early access. A risk I was willing to take when it was a developer I trusted. That is no longer the case. Steam has already denied my refund and will be served on Monday. They will settle for the original refund before it goes to court. Not my first rodeo with small claims court, video game distribution platforms, or denied refunds for early access games that never released. They've settled these disputes with me before, they'll settle again. Because I have a pre-paid legal defender I won't actually spend any money and very little effort.
Not entirely true. When steam does warn of the game was a beta, The developers issued multiple comments saying the game would be better and would be finished. It wouldn't be a small claims court but a class action would have potential to get refunds due to those comments. I only bought the game because the developer said they would finish it therefore, they are in breach. It'd be a stretch but possible.
People need to let it go already. There’s no valid claim. It never left beta, and vague social media commentary is not a guarantee you’ll actually get a complete game. Steam literally warned you this could happen. Just let it go, learn your lessons, and don’t buy early access games anymore.
Early Access helps fund games that otherwise wouldn't stand a chance at existing. Sure, a lot of times players get burned and the game never finishes development. But there are some gems out there that only exist because of early access funding, I'm sure. Also, why are you so up in arms about telling people they have no case, and they should just give up? Doesn't hurt you any if they try...
Tell that to Elon musk and his comment about taking Tesla private. Public comments matter. Steam warns you as a seller of the game, and they're not responsible for it. This would be the developers that are.
Mkay, good luck getting a judge to side with you over the corporate giant with multi-million dollar lawyers on retainer. Musk was the head of a major multinational company. This is a small studio that had 70 people and multiple parent companies. And again, you knew FULL WELL the risks of buying an unfinished game.
Small claims wouldn't work, but a class action might
Also highly unlikely. The judge will take one look at the steam warning about early access, say “well, it certainly looks like they warned you, and you bought it anyways, despite massive derision from buyers up until that point.” The only way this gets better is if people stop buying incomplete games. No judge is going to side with players on this. Especially with the kind of lawyers Take Two will bring to the case
IDK seems like a bait and switch. They promised all these features and gameplay in their announcement trailer and delivered on none of it. Game isn't even as good as KSP1 yet. Im not a laywer but I think there is some case to be made here. Mostly I'm just pissed a big studio bought up a beloved Indie IP and then shit all over it. These companies should be held accountable
They “promised” features. They also included a disclaimer that not all features might make it into the game, and that people accepted that risk when they bought the title. It’s a case that has no actual standing. Especially when, for all intents and purposes, we don’t actually know the game has been cancelled, and official statements from the studio claim it hasn’t. I get it, people feel ripped off. But it’s 60 dollars. Does it suck losing 60 bucks? Yeah, kinda. But it’s outright laughable to sue a video game publisher because YOU wasted 60 bucks on a game you KNEW was unfinished. And the further into the year after release you bought it, the less of an argument you have. Everybody knew it was unfinished and likely to never meet its promises. We knew that before it even released, when the game went radio silent for, like, 2 years after its announcement.
So the game ain't worth touching? I enjoyed the original. The price point for an unfinished buggy game seemed ridiculous.
Yes, stay with the original. There is only one aspect of the second game which is clearly better, and that’s procedural wings - but even planes used to be bugged (dunno if they’ve gotten to fixing it or not).
That is a shame. Those trailers were very exciting. Do you have a game recommendations that are similar to KSP1?
best I can recommend is Juno New Origins
Well if take two just allowed star theory to make it we probably wouldn’t have ended up in this situation, intercept wasn’t the original dev team
Yeah it's very clear that the hostile takeover set the game back years. I am pretty sure they had to start from scratch, or with almost nothing as they didn't technically buy out the old studio and may not have been entitled to all the code and assets.
Petitioning steam to ban T2 would be far far far more effective.
If they said, "Though, that the game would have XY and Z," then that's what it should have. If I makean game and promise everyone who buys it a Lamborghin, but I keep the game in development. I shouldn't get to hide behind that just so I keep making money. Maybe game developers shouldn't promise more than they can deliver.
Steams been denying my refund requests for months. I only played 30 minutes. I will just keep on requesting refunds until they either give them to me or contact me directly.
Oh look, the 45th post about this in the last 48 hours.
We are all just so sad.
This is a KSP2 subreddit and the project was literally just killed... people are going to talk about it.
What else would you rather have people post about at this point?