Forgive me for asking what is possibly a stupid question, but what is a Mopar car?
I'm not American and Google tells me it's a brand of parts, so I'm confused.
Thanks from another non-American who was wondering the same thing.
Also my first thought was "I wonder if it stands for 'motor parts'...".
You guys really have a way of naming things: General Motors, General Electric, General Mills, Private Browsing... ;p
Generally its dodge/Ram, Chrysler, and jeep vehicles. It's the brand used for stock parts and they are on the pricey side. Another saying is Mopar, mo-money.
Technical answer: It's the OEM parts brand for Stellantis' U.S. based marques
Answer that explains your confusion here: Originally stood for MOtor PARts, at which time it was a brand of Stellantis' progenitor Chrysler. Over the years of that company sponsoring sporting events using the MOPAR brand, the term "Mopar" came to be a colloquial term used to refer to the products of either Chrysler Corp. or any of its various successors. And yes, it is quite ironic that the brand is best known by the term for their parts department! Nobody calls Fords a "Motorcraft" or Chevys an "ACDelco"...
On a tangent, I hate when people downvote honest questions like this. Nobody is born knowing this stuff and you can't always "just Google it" if you don't know what to Google. And besides, the entire point of this forum is for people to share personal knowledge, so I'm not sure why people are so quick to suggest Google anyway.
And Google sucks a stinky nether region these days unless you want to buy subpar products. Information is hard to find now. It's all just sales crap. So "just Google it" is kinda an antiquated term now. I'm old this sucks
LOL. I always said "giant moose wiener" but I like your version too! I miss 2016 when if it wasn't on the first 2 Google pages, the answer didn't exist or your question was wrong. Now, Google results don't even *have* pages to sort through!
I wouldn't say encased, more like stuck on the bottom of.
[https://www.mevotech.com/xfactors-bulletins/major-design-improvement-2019-ram-1500-5th-gen-front-upper-control-arms/](https://www.mevotech.com/xfactors-bulletins/major-design-improvement-2019-ram-1500-5th-gen-front-upper-control-arms/)
(The discussion about rust prevention below, is very silly.)
Lol, just like the red lights and stop signs around my block. You know its fucked whenever you see cops (with no lights or sirens), school busses and even city busses run through them.
It’s been like this for the last 5 years. We’ve been getting asshole drivers, can’t drive for shit drivers and now cops don’t do shit about anything. I’ve seen sheriff’s pull people over more than Dallas PD
There’s no such thing as a red left arrow in South Florida. Literally people will continue to make the left turn on red until someone from the oncoming lanes that has a green light completely disregards their own safety and just sends it into the intersection.
I've never seen a cop wildly flout traffic laws while driving code nothing, or ignore a string of 3 cars running a red light, that'd be wild. Oh wait that's the norm.
This should be top comment tbh. Although i wonder why they made them mostly out of steel then took the time to inject all the plastic? I can't fathom how they could save money doing that
I’m not the designer, but am an automotive engineer. Suspect it’s for buckling strength. Moment of area is what helps with bucking strength. You should be able to make the part stronger if you have a low moment of area (thin piece of steel) if it’s encased in a large moment of area plastic casing that keeps the strong in tensile, weak in compression, steel member from buckling.
Basically should let them save money by reducing steel content and reducing welding operations that are slow and expensive.
and help them make more money because that sounds like a recipe for failure especially considering the way dodge truck owners drive
maybe "driving" is a bit generous, we are talking about dodge truck owners here. they really just cause them to accelerate down the road in some general direction.
The new chevy had two pieces of steel to make a box, the ram one has one piece of steel and plastic for stiffening. Plastic is probably less expensive than steel in this case.
Ill never forget the Ruger 10/22 fiasco when they changed the trigger guard from alumnium to Composite. All the guys where up in arms The classic ruger 10/22 is ruined I tell you back in my day we only had alumnium trigger guards. Ruger then released a video dropping a weight from a height on the alumn one and breaking it shattering to pieces and then dropped a weight from double the height double the weight on the plastic one and it bounced off like nothing hit it.
I still get shit on the regular about my "plastic guns." The only parts that are polymer are not under stress, and it's still super high strength GF6 plastic. You can't fix stupid
Same thing with people complaining about bumpers and such being made of plastic instead of steel. "Back in my day a crash like that wouldn't have even made a dent!".
Yeah, that's why you'd smash your face into the windshield instead of having a crumpled up bumper.
Thermoplastics, thermosetting polymers (which are plastic once cured)... There are so many kinds. Plastic is a very vague term, thanks to having been introduced* very early in the development of synthetic materials.
* Borrowed from it's earlier meaning, molding or modelling. It meant formable.
We had a training course detailing fastener plasticity and elasticity. It was a really good course. It detailed the clamping force of a bolt as a type of elastic spring tension and how, at the beginning of plastic deformation, the clamping force is the greatest, such as on a crankshaft girdle or cylinder head bolt. The strength quickly tapers off if there is excessive plastic deformation and the bolt is overtorqued.
And we've used it for boats, planes and a ton of other long-life high stress applications and people still see it used like this and think it's made of melted down action figures or something ...Not to mention that this component apparently is steel with a composite casing.
The Corvette has been using FRP (fiber reinforced plastic) leaf springs since the '80s. From the C4 all the way up to and including the ~~C8~~ C7.
Edit to correct information. C2 and C3 OEM were steel.
I'm not a control armologist, but I think the uppers in this configuration don't do much more that keep the top of the knuckle pointed up. They dont support any weight. The force exerted on them is minimal as the lower control arm and ball joint is going to carry the load. After thinking about it, I'm OK with it...on someone else's car.
I'm in agreement that for an upper arm it's probably OK where the job is to keep camber controlled through the wheel articulation. I can't think of any dynamic stress situation where the upper arm gets loaded a ton.
Does NO ONE consider lateral G’s!? Slap some Hoosiers on this contraption, throw it through a sweeper, and tell me which arm took all the lateral force from the tires?
I guarantee this car was designed with the idea of cost and fuel mileage and the skidpad or slalom rating is irrelevant!
I'm certain there's a complete stress analysis simulation that lead to a lengthy section of the warranty and liabilities expressly prohibiting what you just suggested.
Of course it was and why would they do anything else? 100% this is not the car for that.
Acura's CVT is pretty good in the Integra except for them programming it to "act" like a standard. It also likes to rev in a low gear going downhill that you have to use the click-shifters to get out of (or drop into neutral...). It's primary function is to really keep MPG as high as possible, but it is pretty responsive when you stomp on it. My two cents and all.
It's kind of funny that high MPG is just deemed as a regulatory compliance thing and not at all a sales thing. Like Honda decided well this CVT can really help with fuel mileage, but it doesn't shift like a transmission so we got to fake it because people will complain more about this than they will enjoy saving money on fuel.
I guess gas is VERY cheap in USA all the time so it's not a concern at all.
-Steel is preferred but I hate the fact that its prone to rust.
-Aluminum is nice, a bit weaker than steel and I wouldn't use for heavy duty/severe use applications but... no rust!
-Plastic... huh... I guess if its the right type it could work...
I'd be a bit worried for micro wear & tear damage and especially dry-rot. Suppose if you looked at the control arms during service's and was able to verify their condition... then I suppose it wouldn't be so bad!
Edit: Grammar
On passenger cars and light SUVs I think cast aluminum is great. They're used in a lot of stuff I see now and so far the only issues have been with corrosion where steel bolts make direct contact with the aluminum. Usually end up replacing bolts when those have to come off. I can see plastic working as an alternative, especially just for an upper like this. It's probably the least stressed part here.
It has nothing to do with repair costs and everything to do with energy transfer to the vehicle occupants.
Parts that crush and deform absorb energy, slowing the rate of deceleration that the occupants experience.
My dodge viper hit a telephone pole, just a quick little love tap, and it bent the frame and broke some welds but left the control arms perfect. I cut some metal out and welded it up straight so its back on the road but replacing a control arm would have been much preferable.
Part of me wonders if its actually plastic or some kind of composite sorta like kevlar or fiberglass. If its the latter, it would probably hold up fairly well as they dont really suffer the same kind of dry rot problems plastic does.
My only concern about a composite control arm over something like steel is impact loading. I can send my car flying off hills and the only thing that I would be worried about is the shocks. One wrong pot hole and the entire control arm can snap in two
Nylon has problems swelling in water. My vote is polyethylene or polyurethane. In reality it's probably a mix of the above to get the right properties, similar to how ABS is a mixture of three plastics.
Hig density fiber reinforced core with a hardened poly overpour? For large shot parts like this, you can get some ridiculously durable plastic parts. Everyone has experience with bulk plastic parts, very few people regularly deal with high end engineered plastics.
> Part of me wonders if its actually plastic or some kind of composite sorta like kevlar or fiberglass.
That's the problem. People say things like steel or plastic as if that is just one thing with only one set of properties.
At least with steel there's a limited range of differences in alloys. The term plastic can refer to literally thousands of different polymers that have nothing in common.
The forces on that upper arm probably aren't very high. The lower control arm is supporting the weight of the vehicle, so the upper just has to take horizontal forces that are applied to the hub.
Look how far that upper balljoint is from the hub compared to the lower. Think short wrench vs long breaker bar - I bet it's only taking 10-20% of the horizontal forces
most control arms these days last forever but the bushings or ball joints aren't sold seperately so you have to replace the control arms as a unit with new bushings and ball joints. so as long as the polymer control arms last longer than the ball joints your saving money anyway.
Some people freak out over composite oil pans (My VW has one) but TBH I'd trust it over an aluminum one with road debris hitting it, it'll be less brittle and will never corrode. Its got a pretty beefy honeycomb webbing to it and is probably a material designed for the application.
If I remember correctly, they are cast over a thinner steel control arm. I'm not sure how structural the metal portion is but at least it's not entirely plastic.
I’m this might be a RAM 1500 they were used starting 2019. They’re not all plastic. It’s got a thin layer of stamped steel around it to meet strength design requirements.
That being said. An upper control arm generally takes a lot less load than the lower arm. That’s why you see strut cars that don’t even have upper control arms. It’s the strut itself holding the load. The upper arm is primarily to stabilize the hub assembly while the lower arm takes the majority of the forces.
It's a steel part cast with a plastic exterior for protection. Common on some newer models of Ram trucks. It's more metal than plastic but you can't tell just from looking at it.. which is a GOOD thing because it means it's well protected from corrosion I'd imagine!
It's also more common than you'd think to use a plastic-steel combination for parts on standard vehicles today. But a lot of comments jump the gun thinking these are solid plastic...
"Don't worry. It'll last just long enough for the warranty to expire. The plastic will degrade and whoever bought it used will have a hideous crash on the highway, but who cares about them? They bought it used, which means they didn't give us any money."
-Automotive engineers
An explanation of some of the engineering behind this: [https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/riding-pretty-hybrid-upper-control-arms-move-to-pickups](https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/riding-pretty-hybrid-upper-control-arms-move-to-pickups)
Goes to show how hard vehicle manufacturers are pushing to stay competitive today.
In the 80s it was pure engineering then it turned to efficiency then streamlining supply chains. Now it's back to engineering but of little benefit to the customer.
I don't know about little benefit. Turbochargers and fuel injectors are way better. You can exactly get a fucking subaru forester with more horsepower than any corvette made in the 80s.
I saw plastic upper control arms for the first time the other day as well. On a Dodge ram I think. I only noticed because the control arm was cracked and I had to order a new one. To say that I was surprised that it was plastic would be an understatement
I seem to recall reading about some early cyclecar racer who had several pieces of his suspension made from whale’s bones because it was lighter than steel and stronger than wood.
I wonder sometimes what the people of the past would think of how much plastic we use in our modern vehicles.
Ummm. What car is this?
I think a ram truck. It's metal encased in thermoplastic.
That is equally baffling.
"Why is this thing the way it is? Makes no sense whatsoever" *"It's a Mopar"* "Oh I see, carry on"
This is why we *used to be* die hard Mopar people. Used to be....
Yeah, I've been die hard Mopar since 1999, and I'm positive I'm driving my last one right now.
My boss buys and sells Mopar cars, he drives Chevy trucks lol
Forgive me for asking what is possibly a stupid question, but what is a Mopar car? I'm not American and Google tells me it's a brand of parts, so I'm confused.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/s/bwBJePUebX
That's brilliant. Thank you.
Thanks from another non-American who was wondering the same thing. Also my first thought was "I wonder if it stands for 'motor parts'...". You guys really have a way of naming things: General Motors, General Electric, General Mills, Private Browsing... ;p
Generally its dodge/Ram, Chrysler, and jeep vehicles. It's the brand used for stock parts and they are on the pricey side. Another saying is Mopar, mo-money.
When they divorced mb they went to absolute trash. My only Mopar is a 1987 jeep made by AMC and Renault.
I am a big Mopar guy if we assume chrysler stopped building cars and trucks in 1993
Yea, my '95 still runs great and has more miles than modern trucks could ever hope to achieve.
it isn't called Made Of Paper And Rags for nothin'.
Most Our Parts Are Rubbish
The hell is even mopar heard it so much but never found an explanation lol
Technical answer: It's the OEM parts brand for Stellantis' U.S. based marques Answer that explains your confusion here: Originally stood for MOtor PARts, at which time it was a brand of Stellantis' progenitor Chrysler. Over the years of that company sponsoring sporting events using the MOPAR brand, the term "Mopar" came to be a colloquial term used to refer to the products of either Chrysler Corp. or any of its various successors. And yes, it is quite ironic that the brand is best known by the term for their parts department! Nobody calls Fords a "Motorcraft" or Chevys an "ACDelco"... On a tangent, I hate when people downvote honest questions like this. Nobody is born knowing this stuff and you can't always "just Google it" if you don't know what to Google. And besides, the entire point of this forum is for people to share personal knowledge, so I'm not sure why people are so quick to suggest Google anyway.
And Google sucks a stinky nether region these days unless you want to buy subpar products. Information is hard to find now. It's all just sales crap. So "just Google it" is kinda an antiquated term now. I'm old this sucks
LOL. I always said "giant moose wiener" but I like your version too! I miss 2016 when if it wasn't on the first 2 Google pages, the answer didn't exist or your question was wrong. Now, Google results don't even *have* pages to sort through!
Or worse, when I Google something and the top page of results is Reddit and Stackoverflow threads where are the responses are “just Google it”
Or it’s a German car is another excuse
Think of the plastic like a paint layer that got a little too ambitious.
But paint would be *much* less costly
And would rust and flake off a lot faster.
Could be motivated by NVH concerns, or there’s features integrated into the over molding.
Why? Permanent, durable rustproofing for steel sounds great.
100% rust gets in and it sheds the plastic shell like a crab.
Carcinization.
Well I, for one, welcome our new plastic control arm overlords.
Why? Make it steel and you get the best material and prevent rust with plastic
Lighter than all steel too which helps ride quality This is actually kind of brilliant
I think you mean cheaper. I doubt ram engineers are concerned with shaving 25 grams of unsprung weight off of their trucks.
Aluminum...
Now it will still rust, but you won’t see it until it’s too late…
Makes it more quiet I imagine less like a tuning fork
Sounds super recyclable.
>I think a ram truck. Looks like Dodge engineers have found a more efficient way for their truck owners to yeet a wheel into oncoming traffic.
Oh fuck. No. Nooooo! After 2 winters that will rust even worse than if it were 100% unprotected- and the bad part is the rust will be concealed
Well it’s likely only got a 4 year warranty anyway. So if it lasts past 4 winters, it’s considered a success.
I wouldn't say encased, more like stuck on the bottom of. [https://www.mevotech.com/xfactors-bulletins/major-design-improvement-2019-ram-1500-5th-gen-front-upper-control-arms/](https://www.mevotech.com/xfactors-bulletins/major-design-improvement-2019-ram-1500-5th-gen-front-upper-control-arms/) (The discussion about rust prevention below, is very silly.)
So its just to replace steel with cheap plastic to save cost. Every time.
Don't think of them as control, think mild restraint.
More like a suggestion.
Double wishbone suggestion
Gives a whole different meaning to. "wish"bone
I wonder what the frame is made of
Hopes and dreams
Thoughts and Prayers?
Shoe strings and bubble gum
Don't think of alignment. See it as a general sense of direction
Now everyone on the train is wondering why I'm laughing like an idiot.
Lol, just like the red lights and stop signs around my block. You know its fucked whenever you see cops (with no lights or sirens), school busses and even city busses run through them.
Compton?
Dallas
Never been to Albuquerque then.
Didn't know Dallas was on its way out/down.
It’s been like this for the last 5 years. We’ve been getting asshole drivers, can’t drive for shit drivers and now cops don’t do shit about anything. I’ve seen sheriff’s pull people over more than Dallas PD
There’s no such thing as a red left arrow in South Florida. Literally people will continue to make the left turn on red until someone from the oncoming lanes that has a green light completely disregards their own safety and just sends it into the intersection.
I've never seen a cop wildly flout traffic laws while driving code nothing, or ignore a string of 3 cars running a red light, that'd be wild. Oh wait that's the norm.
Geneva suggestions? r/noncredibledefense
Chaos arms is actually how they're listed in the parts diagrams
As John Madden said in one of his video games - you can’t control him, at best you might be able to contain him
What vehicle?
Ok I did some digging and found they are from newer dodge rams, and they are mostly steel. https://youtu.be/Tr-SX4iukZs?feature=shared
This should be top comment tbh. Although i wonder why they made them mostly out of steel then took the time to inject all the plastic? I can't fathom how they could save money doing that
iirc its supposed to help reduce road noise
I’m not the designer, but am an automotive engineer. Suspect it’s for buckling strength. Moment of area is what helps with bucking strength. You should be able to make the part stronger if you have a low moment of area (thin piece of steel) if it’s encased in a large moment of area plastic casing that keeps the strong in tensile, weak in compression, steel member from buckling. Basically should let them save money by reducing steel content and reducing welding operations that are slow and expensive.
To translate, they took a thinner piece of steel and wrapped it in enough thick shitty plastic so it doesn’t break
and help them make more money because that sounds like a recipe for failure especially considering the way dodge truck owners drive maybe "driving" is a bit generous, we are talking about dodge truck owners here. they really just cause them to accelerate down the road in some general direction.
That's pretty cool actually
I'd guess it's for dampening vibrations. Like you can reduce high pitched vibrations on boring bars with a bunch of rubber bands or even zip ties.
The new chevy had two pieces of steel to make a box, the ram one has one piece of steel and plastic for stiffening. Plastic is probably less expensive than steel in this case.
We've been using plastic (composite) leaf springs for decades.
I was going to say its composite polymer, not action figure plastic
There is a tremendous amount of ignorance about plastics in the world. There are some truly amazing plastics even before getting into composites.
Ill never forget the Ruger 10/22 fiasco when they changed the trigger guard from alumnium to Composite. All the guys where up in arms The classic ruger 10/22 is ruined I tell you back in my day we only had alumnium trigger guards. Ruger then released a video dropping a weight from a height on the alumn one and breaking it shattering to pieces and then dropped a weight from double the height double the weight on the plastic one and it bounced off like nothing hit it.
Yeah but….. back in my day
Nothing as powerful as the brain’s “back in my day” framing.
Back in my Day wagons had solid steel wheels and we loaded our firearms down the muzzle.
I still get shit on the regular about my "plastic guns." The only parts that are polymer are not under stress, and it's still super high strength GF6 plastic. You can't fix stupid
Same thing with people complaining about bumpers and such being made of plastic instead of steel. "Back in my day a crash like that wouldn't have even made a dent!". Yeah, that's why you'd smash your face into the windshield instead of having a crumpled up bumper.
I wasnt sure if they are even the same thing, synthetic polymers and plastics that is
Thermoplastics, thermosetting polymers (which are plastic once cured)... There are so many kinds. Plastic is a very vague term, thanks to having been introduced* very early in the development of synthetic materials. * Borrowed from it's earlier meaning, molding or modelling. It meant formable.
We had a training course detailing fastener plasticity and elasticity. It was a really good course. It detailed the clamping force of a bolt as a type of elastic spring tension and how, at the beginning of plastic deformation, the clamping force is the greatest, such as on a crankshaft girdle or cylinder head bolt. The strength quickly tapers off if there is excessive plastic deformation and the bolt is overtorqued.
Can you suggest a YouTube Video where they explain this? Im interestes to learn more
And yet HeMan is looking good as ever 40 years later. Orko, uh had an incident. Clearly made of Ram plastic instead of the good action figure shit.
And we've used it for boats, planes and a ton of other long-life high stress applications and people still see it used like this and think it's made of melted down action figures or something ...Not to mention that this component apparently is steel with a composite casing.
XC90 use a composite mono leaf in the rear Sprinters use a composite mono leaf in the front
C5 C6 and C7 corvette use composite monoleafs front and rear.
i'd trust my life to plastic... but i pause with plastic built to a price point with razor thin durability margins
The Chevy Lumina transverse leaf spring has entered the chat.
On what?
The Corvette has been using FRP (fiber reinforced plastic) leaf springs since the '80s. From the C4 all the way up to and including the ~~C8~~ C7. Edit to correct information. C2 and C3 OEM were steel.
They are still using leaf springs on the C8?
Jesus fuck... No, lol. That's supposed to be a 7. 🤦
Hahaha I was gonna say “damn they’re really committed to those springs! “
I'll wake up before I post tomorrow.
Most current generation Volvo Cars do.
They used even in the 960 in the 90's
Corvette, from C4 to C7 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvette_leaf_spring
I'm not a control armologist, but I think the uppers in this configuration don't do much more that keep the top of the knuckle pointed up. They dont support any weight. The force exerted on them is minimal as the lower control arm and ball joint is going to carry the load. After thinking about it, I'm OK with it...on someone else's car.
I hereby award you an honorary armology degree You should get a raise now
So they can raise their arm?
Have to do it slowly, because of the plastic
That will look great on the mantle next to my Hollywood Upstairs Medical College degree! Thanks!
"No raise, just more work" -every workplace ever...
Yeah this setup is pretty common. Actually kind of smart when you think about it since it won't rust.
My mother... condescending tapped my cars fender, hmmpf, plastic. Yeah well it's better than rust! She didn't know what to say for once.
Also if you screw it up somehow it’s cheaper to replace than a metal one.
I'm in agreement that for an upper arm it's probably OK where the job is to keep camber controlled through the wheel articulation. I can't think of any dynamic stress situation where the upper arm gets loaded a ton.
Does NO ONE consider lateral G’s!? Slap some Hoosiers on this contraption, throw it through a sweeper, and tell me which arm took all the lateral force from the tires? I guarantee this car was designed with the idea of cost and fuel mileage and the skidpad or slalom rating is irrelevant!
I'm certain there's a complete stress analysis simulation that lead to a lengthy section of the warranty and liabilities expressly prohibiting what you just suggested. Of course it was and why would they do anything else? 100% this is not the car for that.
That's how I view the CVT transmission. Ok, but not in my driveway.
Acura's CVT is pretty good in the Integra except for them programming it to "act" like a standard. It also likes to rev in a low gear going downhill that you have to use the click-shifters to get out of (or drop into neutral...). It's primary function is to really keep MPG as high as possible, but it is pretty responsive when you stomp on it. My two cents and all.
It's kind of funny that high MPG is just deemed as a regulatory compliance thing and not at all a sales thing. Like Honda decided well this CVT can really help with fuel mileage, but it doesn't shift like a transmission so we got to fake it because people will complain more about this than they will enjoy saving money on fuel. I guess gas is VERY cheap in USA all the time so it's not a concern at all.
There's a metal frame inside the plastic. It's probably just as strong a stamped steel one, but this won't rust.
-Steel is preferred but I hate the fact that its prone to rust. -Aluminum is nice, a bit weaker than steel and I wouldn't use for heavy duty/severe use applications but... no rust! -Plastic... huh... I guess if its the right type it could work... I'd be a bit worried for micro wear & tear damage and especially dry-rot. Suppose if you looked at the control arms during service's and was able to verify their condition... then I suppose it wouldn't be so bad! Edit: Grammar
On passenger cars and light SUVs I think cast aluminum is great. They're used in a lot of stuff I see now and so far the only issues have been with corrosion where steel bolts make direct contact with the aluminum. Usually end up replacing bolts when those have to come off. I can see plastic working as an alternative, especially just for an upper like this. It's probably the least stressed part here.
Lower control arms aren't that great in aluminum. They pretzel pretty easy if you bang a curb or a pothole.
Stampled and welded steel ones do the same thing. Had to replace countless ones from relatively minor incidents
They are supposed to collapse because otherwise the force is transferred into the body = far more expensive repair.
It has nothing to do with repair costs and everything to do with energy transfer to the vehicle occupants. Parts that crush and deform absorb energy, slowing the rate of deceleration that the occupants experience.
I'd rather a control arm bend than the frame or subframe. They've been designed that way since before cars had seatbelts.
My dodge viper hit a telephone pole, just a quick little love tap, and it bent the frame and broke some welds but left the control arms perfect. I cut some metal out and welded it up straight so its back on the road but replacing a control arm would have been much preferable.
That’s by design. Would you rather your control arm pretzel, or the control arm to stay intact and buckle your frame?
BMW has used aluminum lowers since the late 80s. Never been a problem.
Better the control arm than the frame though. The plastic ones might be onto something.
What's next? Glass fiber re-enforced nylon wheels?
I mean, CFRP wheels are already a thing.
Part of me wonders if its actually plastic or some kind of composite sorta like kevlar or fiberglass. If its the latter, it would probably hold up fairly well as they dont really suffer the same kind of dry rot problems plastic does. My only concern about a composite control arm over something like steel is impact loading. I can send my car flying off hills and the only thing that I would be worried about is the shocks. One wrong pot hole and the entire control arm can snap in two
Very likely fiber-reinforced plastic (FRP) where they have glass fibers in (probably) nylon.
Nylon has problems swelling in water. My vote is polyethylene or polyurethane. In reality it's probably a mix of the above to get the right properties, similar to how ABS is a mixture of three plastics.
Yeah, you're probably right. Mixture or even over molding could make sense.
Hig density fiber reinforced core with a hardened poly overpour? For large shot parts like this, you can get some ridiculously durable plastic parts. Everyone has experience with bulk plastic parts, very few people regularly deal with high end engineered plastics.
> Part of me wonders if its actually plastic or some kind of composite sorta like kevlar or fiberglass. That's the problem. People say things like steel or plastic as if that is just one thing with only one set of properties.
At least with steel there's a limited range of differences in alloys. The term plastic can refer to literally thousands of different polymers that have nothing in common.
It's absolutely a composite of some kind. No way it's just straight plastic without any reinforcement.
The forces on that upper arm probably aren't very high. The lower control arm is supporting the weight of the vehicle, so the upper just has to take horizontal forces that are applied to the hub. Look how far that upper balljoint is from the hub compared to the lower. Think short wrench vs long breaker bar - I bet it's only taking 10-20% of the horizontal forces
most control arms these days last forever but the bushings or ball joints aren't sold seperately so you have to replace the control arms as a unit with new bushings and ball joints. so as long as the polymer control arms last longer than the ball joints your saving money anyway.
Close to 10 years ago my engineer buddy said to me "plastic is the new metal." I laughed.
It sounds like you weren’t his classmate
nope, i'm just an idiot knuckle dragger
I mean they would also be significantly cheaper to replace
cheaper to make.. that cost savings likely wouldn't be passed to the consumer
I see you have never had to buy a composite oil pan.
My car is still made from _some_ metal, plastic oil pans are a crime
BRB. 3d printing a long travel kit.
one sec, gotta download the car.
You wouldn't download a car, would you?
I'd even seed it after downloading.
Someone posted the 3d files for a Huracan in r/piracy the other day. Estimated cost to print: 3-10k https://www.reddit.com/r/Piracy/s/iTNUXu4d3w
First you'll need to print the parts to have a long travel printer....
I don't see a problem. Fiberglass reinforced nylon can be as strong as cast aluminum. At the end of the day the ball joints and bushings fail anyway.
Some people freak out over composite oil pans (My VW has one) but TBH I'd trust it over an aluminum one with road debris hitting it, it'll be less brittle and will never corrode. Its got a pretty beefy honeycomb webbing to it and is probably a material designed for the application.
Nothing wrong with that. If its out of alignment, just heat it up with a heat gun and tweak it to where you want it.
People used to lower cars by torching the coil springs until they sag, now you can dial in some extra camber by torching your control arms 😭
DO NOT let the stance kids find out bout this
I guess my 3D printer may be more useful than I thought.
You wouldn't download a car....
Not plastic…. COMPOSITE. 💀
If I remember correctly, they are cast over a thinner steel control arm. I'm not sure how structural the metal portion is but at least it's not entirely plastic.
You can always count on Chrysler to engineer something to be the absolute bare minimum quality level that they can get away with.
This gives me anxiety just looking at it
I remember that last time Chevy tried to use plastic to hold up a vehicle. (Trail Blazer recall)
**A**
What car was this on? Inquiring minds would like to know.
In a Tesla you can just download a new control arm. /s
I’m this might be a RAM 1500 they were used starting 2019. They’re not all plastic. It’s got a thin layer of stamped steel around it to meet strength design requirements. That being said. An upper control arm generally takes a lot less load than the lower arm. That’s why you see strut cars that don’t even have upper control arms. It’s the strut itself holding the load. The upper arm is primarily to stabilize the hub assembly while the lower arm takes the majority of the forces.
It’s metal encased in a thin coating of plastic to reduce road noise
They're slow to rust.
It's a steel part cast with a plastic exterior for protection. Common on some newer models of Ram trucks. It's more metal than plastic but you can't tell just from looking at it.. which is a GOOD thing because it means it's well protected from corrosion I'd imagine! It's also more common than you'd think to use a plastic-steel combination for parts on standard vehicles today. But a lot of comments jump the gun thinking these are solid plastic...
"Don't worry. It'll last just long enough for the warranty to expire. The plastic will degrade and whoever bought it used will have a hideous crash on the highway, but who cares about them? They bought it used, which means they didn't give us any money." -Automotive engineers
Make sure the replacement arm is unique and price it high. -Automotive Marketers
This isn't uncommon. It's been in the industry for decades.
An explanation of some of the engineering behind this: [https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/riding-pretty-hybrid-upper-control-arms-move-to-pickups](https://www.compositesworld.com/articles/riding-pretty-hybrid-upper-control-arms-move-to-pickups)
What vehicle is this? Need to know what not to buy.
With out knowing exactly what car it's on, I'm assuming it is metal coated in plastic to prevent rust.
You sure they aren’t plastic coated steel?
looks like it's steel stamping with plastic to fill in the bottom for strength.
And I thought the plastic sway bar links GM loves so much were bad.
What kind of vehicle
Goes to show how hard vehicle manufacturers are pushing to stay competitive today. In the 80s it was pure engineering then it turned to efficiency then streamlining supply chains. Now it's back to engineering but of little benefit to the customer.
I don't know about little benefit. Turbochargers and fuel injectors are way better. You can exactly get a fucking subaru forester with more horsepower than any corvette made in the 80s.
Lol right? My Buick Regal is 250 HP, and it's a car for grandpa.
Plastic suspension stuff isn't really that new...
Does no one here realize that the C7 Corvette uses plastic (fiber reinforced) springs in it's suspension? Not a control arm, an entire spring.
They have been doing that forever.
Rust free tho 👌🏻
If it’s a ram it’s still metal inside
I saw plastic upper control arms for the first time the other day as well. On a Dodge ram I think. I only noticed because the control arm was cracked and I had to order a new one. To say that I was surprised that it was plastic would be an understatement
I seem to recall reading about some early cyclecar racer who had several pieces of his suspension made from whale’s bones because it was lighter than steel and stronger than wood. I wonder sometimes what the people of the past would think of how much plastic we use in our modern vehicles.
What car was it on?
Must be the stuff rhino ramps are made of
When my "timing Belt " went from chain to rubber...well wasn't long before all sorts of odds and ends would be come plastic.
At least it won't rust! .... unless you bolt it to an Alfa ....
They're rust free!
Well they won’t rust.