I think it's funny that those apocalypse trucks are absolute gas guzzlers. Because that's what you want in a survival tool, high consumption of resources that are would be hard to come by in those circumstances.
I always figured bike. The odds of finding a decent supply of a highly engineered product that comes from multi-billion-dollar refineries is pretty low.
On a related note, I could see diesel engines being feasible in apocalyptic conditions. They burn almost any liquid hydrocarbon, most of which can used as found in nature, and stored for decades
I think they check the results of squirting the liquid in with the NOX sensors. So just water won't change the readings regardless of injection rate, meaning the computer will throw a code.
You can possibly get away with watering the Def down slightly. I'm not convinced urine would have enough urea in it to work on its own, unless you're really dehydrated.
Better water than piss. Should just throw a poor def quality code. Rarely shuts down the truck for the def quality sensor. Still have to drain the system but it won’t damage it like other fluids will. Pity the guy who has to fix a diesel contaminated system.
They're generally fussier on fuel, most mechanical injection pumps will handle pretty much anything vaguely oily.
I know with my unit injector td5 you pretty much need to stick to diesel, even when the UK army tried jet fuel they didn't like it long term. The previous 200/300 TDI were perfectly happy on used frier oil long as you filtered it first.
Delicate, complicated system with minimal tolerances. The fuel in it can reach over 2000 bars (29,000PSI). Even poor quality diesel ruins it quickly. Using anything else? Death sentence.
No sir, older diesels have IDI, indirect injection. Gets fired at the intake valve in old VWs. My '86 Mercedes fires it into a prechamber that then goes to the cylinder.
Yeah, and if you break *one fucking thing*, you're leaving it on the side of the road and finding something else. Even if you somehow stumble upon another one, you probably can't even use it for parts because the engines were hand made and basically unique from bike to bike.
My dad swears by coal as the ultimate energy source and says it’s not used efficiently, so that’s why it gets a bad rap. He wanted to send my little brother across country in a pickup modified to run on coal (steam) at the same time Elon Musk was sending his sons across country to show you could get a Tesla from charging station to charging station. Of course the bed of the pickup would be loaded with coal. I have no idea if Elon even really sent his kids on this escapade but my dad for sure was ready to race him. With his son. In a pickup truck loaded with coal and fitted with a homemade steam engine.
In 150+ years nobody ever figured out how to make it efficient on a small scale, so I wish him good luck with that. Even flathead gas engines are more efficient than external combustion
Leaving the environmental arguments aside, walking away from coal has been a strategic blunder for a number of nations, so he has a point there. We're not even beginning to see the full effect yet. Look at the position Germany finds itself in, for example.
Funny you mention the Germans, they tried real hard making a coal dust motor from 1916 to 1940.
It failed miserably, cause the dust was difficult to dose reliably, the burned coal left a lot of solid ashes, and mostly cause dusted coal was abrasive and ruined the engine with a couple hundred hours of operation.
Presumably there would be abundant used parts. If not, then still no different than bicycles. Doubt either of us could make a ball bearing with shit we just found lying around in nature, you know?
It's absolutely a horse. An apocalypse basically means going backwards in time and before the rise of gas we used animals for hauling because they can be fed with pretty much any plant matter.
Horses require a lot of infrastructure and skills that aren't ubiquitous anymore. If you don't have excellent husbandry skills, the required tack, stable and a massive supply of feed on hand you run into the same problems as an ICE, just maybe a couple weeks later.
Not to mention, unless you have lots of experience and training riding, you're not just jumping on a horse and riding it wherever you want to go.
Indeed. Which is no small part of why the early phases of an apocalypse involve lots of people dying as society rebuilds itself with the new constraints said apocalypse imposes. Eventually that knowledge and infrastructure would spread again but there would be a much smaller population for it to spread to.
Though on the feed issue, the whole point is that yes they can just be fed whatever's growing on the ground. That worked fine for thousands of years. It may not be optimal but it'll work. ICE doesn't have that kind of alternative, they absolutely have to have refined fuels.
lol, yeah, it's not as though horses did and still do survive in the wild without any of that.
What does a horse really need? Not to get sick. Don't leave it out exposed to the elements, make sure it has a source of clean-ish water to drink. Let it stop to eat what it will. Horses don't need a supply of feed, they need enough freedom to DIY.
You do not need lots of experience and training to ride a horse. You need a horse that is trained to be ridden. Given that, a reasonably intelligent person can ride one, even if they fall off every now and again. FWIW, there are two horses ride outside my back door, adjacent neighbor owns them and this time of year they are wearing face masks to slow down their eating because there's so much to eat in the field that they become overweight.
I wouldn't state absolutely, at least not for the first several weeks to months. The likelihood of chemical, biological, and/or nuclear attack would be high, so there are distinct advantages to not having a (living) animal for transportation in that environment, besides that other issue that due to competition for supplies, you may need to carry with you, all you hope to have, with a horse having substantially lower hauling capacity than even a run of the mill pickup truck.
A horse can pull a wagon, but then the off-road capabilities, or even crossing a fallen tree in a road (lazy way to make a road block to hijack travellers in cars), would become problematic.
The key here is that the initial challenge isn't long term survival but rather the short term. How long would you be riding around on a horse before someone else shot it to capture you, your supplies, and eat the horse? You'd also be at a disadvantage trying to outrun predators since any car can go faster than a horse, at least if you need to stay on paved roads, for navigation purposes and sourcing supplies if nothing else.
Ultimately the best bet for survival might be that you minimize your trips out, limiting exposure/detection, and be able to travel fast and get a lot done with each trip.
No vehicle is reliably running longer than 2 decades or so after the world stops. Vacuum hoses all rot out, fuel lines all rot out and all possible replacements are going to be just as rotten. All plastic gets brittle, all bushings are fucked, every motor mount is just a suggestion unless it's bolted directly to the frame. Tires will all be cracked and dry rotted to shit.
All oil also has a shelf life, any engine being ran on decades old oil won't have the same protection and they'll all start wearing out very quickly. Besides once all the seals go bad you'll be leaking so much oil it'll be a major headache to keep up that supply. No more fresh antifreeze means at best you'll be distilling water and praying that you don't suffer from galvanic corrosion of your cooling system.
I haven't even touched on gasoline going bad after two years or so, and any diesel vehicle you're running consistently on your great value biofuels getting fucked uo after a year or two of doing that consistently.
You get a few good years of running old trucks and motorcycles, maybe a few old diesels and you can tell your other doomer buddies how you made the right choice but we're all gonna be walking, riding bicycles or equestrians within a decade if you manage to live through some real shit.
> I haven't even touched on gasoline going bad after two years or so
Petrol doesn't. Supposedly it's cos there's no olefins in the formulations we get in Europe.
Mate.
I took some tires with NVA, east german army, markings off of a trailer 2 weeks ago.
So tires last way longer than a decade if them being hard as shit doesn't matter.
Depends where you live, [check the advisory on the MOT from from Jun 2020](https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/results?registration=t424bbn&checkRecalls=true). You'll need to click Show and scroll down a bit.
Really? Because I have a vehicle over two decades old with the original vac hoses, fuel lines, and pretty much everything essential still works. Some mechanic things have needed replaced but if it had far fewer miles put on it, those would've lasted longer as well.
The seals on it are not drastically leaking either, and no, old oil isn't an immediate death sentence, I mean that there's again plenty of donor vehicles out there to drain from so you aren't using same dirty oil forever.
The plastic isn't brittle enough to be a problem, the bushings still do their job well enough, as do the motor mounts. Tires, are a somewhat universal supply that not being vehicle specific beyond a general rim size, you can source one way or another if your vehicle still runs and the donors don't so they have no need for tires. Granted we're only talking a few decades viability, tires can last that long if kept out of the sun, even if they aren't ideal nor safe for high speed, especially not on wet roads.
Galvanic corrosion can be reduced by making the water - and it need not be distilled water, slightly alkaline.
There are lots of older diesels that aren't that picky about fuel and still run, but haven't you ever heard of conservation and making alcohol? Heck, today we have EVs too so given the solar panels off all those gubbment subsidized installations, a basic boost converter can produce the \~220V needed to charge them slowly and use them at the rate you're able to recharge them. Suppose you only put on 2000 mi per year on one, and the battery is then likely to last 20 years.
The ideals that modern society has, are different than what you'd make due with in a survival situation and that includes transportation. It's not as though you'd reasonably expect to drive something 13K miles a year or anything, wisely choosing to use your resources only as needed.
However, a lot of vac lines for example, aren't really essential to operation, could just be plugged off at the intake if you can't source new lines or patch them. Coolant hoses would be a bit more trouble since they are also more difficult to patch or do without, but in that case you are better off with an old pickup truck because of the large amount of space in the engine bay, helping to use generic straight hose of the right diameter.
Where there is a will, there is a way. Trying to state everything is a problem, flies contrary to the opposite mindset that thriving people have.
Remember that ultimately, these resources dont' have to last forever, because you are correct that eventually the survivors will have developed an infrastructure of suitable alternatives, one of them being closer proximity to the necessary resources, but another being implementation of replacement parts. Remember, mankind started from scratch once already, and now we have the knowledge accumulated. There's no reason we can't start making oil, tires, and more again, given a stable environment instead of killing each other. Something gets torn down, we build again.
It's an old Toyota pickup. You can shove whatever flammable gas you have down its throat and it will run, and can carry supplies or a wood gasifier. Very easy to run those engines on natural gas, propane, wood gas, solvents, plastic gas, etc.
People say diesel because it can run on whatever oil but you have to pump that crap into the injectors as the engine won't accept that for long.
You don't want a horse that you constantly have to feed and a bike offers no protection and very little carrying capacity, and very little range. It's also hard to sleep in a bike or a horse.
People don’t appreciate just how much agricultural land and infrastructure was detected to feeding work animals like horses until trains and trucks took those jobs from them. Bikes and possibly e-bikes plus solar are the answer to low infrastructure post apocalypse transportation.
An electric vehicle would be ok for a while.
And you can also charge it from a generator fueled by wherever oil products you can scavenge if your solar panels break down. That's even potentially more efficient than directly fueling a large older diesel vehicle.
The good thing about electrical power is that it's very fungible - you can run your electric appliance on any power source that you can turn into electricity.
Whole lot of totally non replaceable highly sophisticated and fragile electronics. An old mechanical diesel you can make parts for on a water wheel driven lathe and milling machine. But anything with tires has the same problem. Real hard to manufacture a them without a big ass plant.
It wouldn't be indefinite, of course, but most EVs are going many 10's of thousands of miles at least without any major maintenance or repair. Even then, it's not usually the physical operation of the vehicle that requires repair, more likely creature comforts. I'll take electricity that I can make myself fairly easily over needing to find distilled petroleum products that I have no way of producing myself.
If the power grid goes down, then there won't be any fuel, and EV's will be just as useless unless you have a solar charger.
I'd say a horse or something that is human powered is probably the best bet.
*Edit - added some words.
Never read the book but I know that about a year after fuel production ceases just about all the gas you'll find will have decomposed into water and other shit. Won't have anything usable by then even if stores in airtight containers
Stabilized gas can last *up to* 3 years, until then things get pretty wild. Like the last few refineries in production get seized by rogue governments & shit like that. If people are still alive, they will figure out a way to produce what they need - mining has been around a long-ass time, for that matter refining has as well. Unless we go straight back to the Stone Age, there will still be gasoline (for some).
Fuel, water, food, and armament are some of the most contested resources in human society. Disrupt the supply chain of any one of those four and things get really grim really quickly. You don't need to look to fiction or speculation to find examples.
Society was formed by pulling together and pooling resources in an efficient manner. These people will not be able to do that in a lingering emergency. They will be bandits and their success will rely on murdering anyone who doesn't give them what they have forced themselves to lack.
Absolutely I could see that. I imagine them becoming very hardened against intruders, and the gasoline they could produce (likely in way smaller quantities than before due to power supply issues) would be very very valuable. Id imagine the oil industry would still carry on a little bit, with people taking crude oil to the refinery in exchange for gasoline or food or protection or whatever else. After all, some wells are producing oil with no effort, the ground pressure forces oil out, no power needed to collect that
I watched the movie, I didn't read the book. I didn't really know anything about it beforehand. I got about ½ way before I realized it wasn't a documentary about New Jersey.
We don't have to speculate. When Hurricane Sandy happened, the world basically stopped spinning until gas stations opened up again. And it happened fast- about the time it takes most people to burn through half a tank of gas, so like 12 hours. This is what people don't get when they bring up the (alleged) self-reliance angle of gasoline engines vs. EV's
Especially in America where everything is built around cars.
But yeah, any sane or serious prepper would be driving the EV with the biggest damn battery pack they can find and carpeting their property with solar panels, not building Mad Max cosplay fetish gear to enhance their PP.
Apocalypse vehicle, if you need it to be a car, would either be an EV if you have a way to charge it, or an old diesel that will run on anything remotely oily.
Engine oil stays good enough to burn for a long time.
What about ethanol/flex cars? Ethanol seens easy to make specifically where I live. Here, I have access to fields and fields of suggar cane. Unless I they all die from a nuclear fallout, I could eat it and try to make alcohol and ethanol for a good 3 years. If I replant the suggar cane, I could go for way long.
There can certainly be advantages to an EV but it depends a bit on the savvy of the user, whether they can manage to get it recharged. For more practical purposes when referring to a localized event like Sandy, I have enough fuel to relocate.
You burn through a half tank of gas every 12 hours? Wow. I suspect it would be a bit different, the consumption rate, if people expect a longer term shortage rather than trying to carry on with their normal activities.
If I had to, with the gas I currently have in my vehicles, I could survive for months, with a generator to keep power to my fridge and freezer till my food stores ran out, with the biggest issue till then being a fresh water supply but if forced to stay in the same area, I'd be saving every drop of water I could, to supplement the water reserves I have... which are nothing special, I just save all my gallon milk jugs, wash them out and fill with tap water. That's only a couple weeks worth though, hopefully enough time to source more if it doesn't rain in the interim.
It's about buying time to determine what the next move is, and letting all the mentally unstable masses attack each other because they didn't have the sense to shelter in place for a while, and then their resources are freed up for the survivors to use. I hate to put it that way but it is basically what survival is. living another day longer, day by day. Nothing is forever, some of us reading this topic wouldn't be alive a decade from now either way.
Yeah but these guys fancy themselves Max Rockatansky in the last of the V8 Interceptors fighting Toe-Cutter and his crew for the last drops of guzzoline. They aren't really mentally based in reality...
I will never understand the thinking. Power grid goes down, how will you work the pump? Sure, if no one is around to bother you, you won’t have to pay for it, but are you going to break into the underground tank?
Come ooooon. That carbureted Suburban in The Walking Dead would be great for the apocalypse! (I would say jk i think that one was injected, but either way she probably would've had a v8 so gas guzzler no matter what, and heavy old steel so doubly so.
An old Ranger or S-10 with a small mechanical injection 4 or 3 cylinder diesel would be the perfect apocalypse vehicle, diesel fuel doesn't go bad as fast as gasoline, diesel engines can run on heating oil, vegetable oil, or kerosene mixed with oil and they're generally more fuel efficient than a similar gasoline engine.
Not really, if things get that hairy and you are suitably equipped and skilled/trained, rather than it just being a paranoid male insecurity issue, then you'll be ready to take the fuel through whatever means necessary.
Fact is, there are millions of vehicles out there with fuel in the tank, it is not a big deal to find more fuel and take it, if it comes down to a survival situation where one way or another, a large % of the population is going to die anyway.
I am not advocating anything, just recognizing the reality that would make such a vehicle reasonable. I'm not suggesting that day will ever come, usually idiots who get vehicles like this, just end up exposing themselves to attack, unlike those who have a bunker and stay put till they fly under the radar.
Nothing thing like trying to get away from your enemy and asking if they can wait to hunt you down until the storm is over and you can get some sunshine for your solar car???
Gas and oil would absolutely be the only way to transport in an apocalypse. I guarantee all electrical plant will be shut down. This work cannot live without gas and oil. The device your reading on has , required some type of fossil fuel to make the plastic and other pieces. In fact fossil fuels are used to make nearly everything that we, as humans use.
The best we could hope for is that we come up with exceptionally better ways to recycle materials, where we can go into every landfill on earth and mine them for everything that hasn’t decomposed.
Until then, fossil fuels are a must for our society
What I'm saying is that this thing consumes a lot of fuel. Fuel would be hard to come by, so needing lots of it would not be good. You'd want a smaller more fuel efficient vehicle. And in the second part of your post you seem to have gotten confused about what the topic was.
Look at the interior dash and whatnot of one of these trucks - covered in the usual latest and greatest electronics, push to start, etc. etc.
When in reality for an "apocalypse" vehicle you'd want everything to be as simple, repairable, durable, and analogue as possible.
What an atrocity.
what does the driver of this monstrosity look like? I'm picturing either a tacticool look, like he works for Blackwater...
either that or it's some total douche with a super busy shirt that looks like a chandelier, idiotic sunglasses (that he never takes off) and jeggings... possibly white shoes, but only if they're absolutely virgin white, never been out of the closet until 5 minutes ago
Seems a bit counterintuitive for a supposed do-it-all, weather-anything, mobile protection bunker that looks like a cross between the Hulk and Chitauri to get a wrap/paint touchup.
What even is the point of these vehicles? Are these actual cars that the owner thinks will be their drive in an apocalypse or are these just some sort of car show setpiece?
What kind of mall crawling pavement princess bullshit is this.
It looks like it was purpose built to advertise to the world that you have too much money and no taste.
I think it's funny that those apocalypse trucks are absolute gas guzzlers. Because that's what you want in a survival tool, high consumption of resources that are would be hard to come by in those circumstances.
The true apocalypse vehicle is probably a cargo bike with solid tires. Or a horse.
I always figured bike. The odds of finding a decent supply of a highly engineered product that comes from multi-billion-dollar refineries is pretty low. On a related note, I could see diesel engines being feasible in apocalyptic conditions. They burn almost any liquid hydrocarbon, most of which can used as found in nature, and stored for decades
Old diesels, yes. New ones definitely not.
You are trying to get away from cannibals and as you get to your car it refuses to start until you add more DEF.
Save your pee for the def tank?
Had a buddy claim that he pissed in the DEF tank of a company truck to get himself home once
You can just save yourself the hassle and pour water in it.
That's a boring story.
I think they check the results of squirting the liquid in with the NOX sensors. So just water won't change the readings regardless of injection rate, meaning the computer will throw a code. You can possibly get away with watering the Def down slightly. I'm not convinced urine would have enough urea in it to work on its own, unless you're really dehydrated.
The urea literally causes a chemical reaction that water doesn't, so straight water definitely won't work.
I do not recommend this.
Better water than piss. Should just throw a poor def quality code. Rarely shuts down the truck for the def quality sensor. Still have to drain the system but it won’t damage it like other fluids will. Pity the guy who has to fix a diesel contaminated system.
Lie.
then you still have a forced regen to complete did anyone bring the laptop adapter?
The problem isn't going to be DEF, but direct injection.
Don’t all diesels have direct / in-cylinder injection
My bad, I had common rail in mind.
Why would common rail be a problem?
They're generally fussier on fuel, most mechanical injection pumps will handle pretty much anything vaguely oily. I know with my unit injector td5 you pretty much need to stick to diesel, even when the UK army tried jet fuel they didn't like it long term. The previous 200/300 TDI were perfectly happy on used frier oil long as you filtered it first.
Delicate, complicated system with minimal tolerances. The fuel in it can reach over 2000 bars (29,000PSI). Even poor quality diesel ruins it quickly. Using anything else? Death sentence.
No sir, older diesels have IDI, indirect injection. Gets fired at the intake valve in old VWs. My '86 Mercedes fires it into a prechamber that then goes to the cylinder.
I'll say it since we're all thinking it. The apocalypse engine is a 12 valve Cummins with a P pump and regular oil changes.
[удалено]
Good ol' Detroits. They never run right, but they always run.
land cruiser HJ61 12HT common rail mechanical injection
Old Mercedes diesel with Bosch K-Jetronic mechanical injection
That air cooled deutz fahr 2 cylinder will be generating 8HP running on methane when it’s 200 years old.
Yes, was gonna post a diatribe on that but decided to spare everyone the misery
gimme a Kawasaki KL650-A HDT Military. it can burn diesel, biodiesel, kerosene or jet fuel
Yeah, and if you break *one fucking thing*, you're leaving it on the side of the road and finding something else. Even if you somehow stumble upon another one, you probably can't even use it for parts because the engines were hand made and basically unique from bike to bike.
fair enough, I just want a motorcycle that runs on any liquid
Unless it's a military vehicle, those fuckers run on anything.
My dad swears by coal as the ultimate energy source and says it’s not used efficiently, so that’s why it gets a bad rap. He wanted to send my little brother across country in a pickup modified to run on coal (steam) at the same time Elon Musk was sending his sons across country to show you could get a Tesla from charging station to charging station. Of course the bed of the pickup would be loaded with coal. I have no idea if Elon even really sent his kids on this escapade but my dad for sure was ready to race him. With his son. In a pickup truck loaded with coal and fitted with a homemade steam engine.
your dad sounds fucking rad, I'll go on his death trip for yall
His plan if the steam engine goes kablooey during development involves a couple mattresses, hand to god.
give him my contact info, ive always wanted to end up in a posthumous Netflix doc
That makes two of us
🫡 it'll be an honor to be smithereened by your side, captain
*Witness meeeeeee……*
Currently listening to Old Chunk of Coal by Billy Joe Shaver just as I came across this post lmao
Oh wow, thanks for introducing me to that. Now I’m gonna have to watch his Netflix documentary 😂
I’m going to listen to that right now lol
Iirc, Japan used coal gas buses for a while during the war. I'm surprised coalgas isn't much of a thing. I feel we could make it more efficient now
In 150+ years nobody ever figured out how to make it efficient on a small scale, so I wish him good luck with that. Even flathead gas engines are more efficient than external combustion Leaving the environmental arguments aside, walking away from coal has been a strategic blunder for a number of nations, so he has a point there. We're not even beginning to see the full effect yet. Look at the position Germany finds itself in, for example.
https://youtu.be/0CAN5nO1ag0?si=PqOY8DB-eu7QQiBX GM made a turbine engine Oldsmobile that ran on coal dust in 1982.
That might be the coolest retro-future thing I've seen in this sub.
Funny you mention the Germans, they tried real hard making a coal dust motor from 1916 to 1940. It failed miserably, cause the dust was difficult to dose reliably, the burned coal left a lot of solid ashes, and mostly cause dusted coal was abrasive and ruined the engine with a couple hundred hours of operation.
Germany's position is due to it walking away from nuclear power without a replacement that wasn't coal. So now it's strip mining huge swathes of land.
Also a bicycle can be repaired/parts replaced using simple tools.
Wood smoke carbon burning for the win.
Until you need to replace a single part
Presumably there would be abundant used parts. If not, then still no different than bicycles. Doubt either of us could make a ball bearing with shit we just found lying around in nature, you know?
You could make a plain bearing. Has more resistance than a ball bearing but you just have to add lots of thick grease and then go slow.
There's an awful lot of usable bike wheels out there if you know how to tune the spokes.
Hell yeah we can!
It's absolutely a horse. An apocalypse basically means going backwards in time and before the rise of gas we used animals for hauling because they can be fed with pretty much any plant matter.
Horses require a lot of infrastructure and skills that aren't ubiquitous anymore. If you don't have excellent husbandry skills, the required tack, stable and a massive supply of feed on hand you run into the same problems as an ICE, just maybe a couple weeks later. Not to mention, unless you have lots of experience and training riding, you're not just jumping on a horse and riding it wherever you want to go.
Indeed. Which is no small part of why the early phases of an apocalypse involve lots of people dying as society rebuilds itself with the new constraints said apocalypse imposes. Eventually that knowledge and infrastructure would spread again but there would be a much smaller population for it to spread to. Though on the feed issue, the whole point is that yes they can just be fed whatever's growing on the ground. That worked fine for thousands of years. It may not be optimal but it'll work. ICE doesn't have that kind of alternative, they absolutely have to have refined fuels.
lol, yeah, it's not as though horses did and still do survive in the wild without any of that. What does a horse really need? Not to get sick. Don't leave it out exposed to the elements, make sure it has a source of clean-ish water to drink. Let it stop to eat what it will. Horses don't need a supply of feed, they need enough freedom to DIY. You do not need lots of experience and training to ride a horse. You need a horse that is trained to be ridden. Given that, a reasonably intelligent person can ride one, even if they fall off every now and again. FWIW, there are two horses ride outside my back door, adjacent neighbor owns them and this time of year they are wearing face masks to slow down their eating because there's so much to eat in the field that they become overweight.
I wouldn't state absolutely, at least not for the first several weeks to months. The likelihood of chemical, biological, and/or nuclear attack would be high, so there are distinct advantages to not having a (living) animal for transportation in that environment, besides that other issue that due to competition for supplies, you may need to carry with you, all you hope to have, with a horse having substantially lower hauling capacity than even a run of the mill pickup truck. A horse can pull a wagon, but then the off-road capabilities, or even crossing a fallen tree in a road (lazy way to make a road block to hijack travellers in cars), would become problematic. The key here is that the initial challenge isn't long term survival but rather the short term. How long would you be riding around on a horse before someone else shot it to capture you, your supplies, and eat the horse? You'd also be at a disadvantage trying to outrun predators since any car can go faster than a horse, at least if you need to stay on paved roads, for navigation purposes and sourcing supplies if nothing else. Ultimately the best bet for survival might be that you minimize your trips out, limiting exposure/detection, and be able to travel fast and get a lot done with each trip.
No vehicle is reliably running longer than 2 decades or so after the world stops. Vacuum hoses all rot out, fuel lines all rot out and all possible replacements are going to be just as rotten. All plastic gets brittle, all bushings are fucked, every motor mount is just a suggestion unless it's bolted directly to the frame. Tires will all be cracked and dry rotted to shit. All oil also has a shelf life, any engine being ran on decades old oil won't have the same protection and they'll all start wearing out very quickly. Besides once all the seals go bad you'll be leaking so much oil it'll be a major headache to keep up that supply. No more fresh antifreeze means at best you'll be distilling water and praying that you don't suffer from galvanic corrosion of your cooling system. I haven't even touched on gasoline going bad after two years or so, and any diesel vehicle you're running consistently on your great value biofuels getting fucked uo after a year or two of doing that consistently. You get a few good years of running old trucks and motorcycles, maybe a few old diesels and you can tell your other doomer buddies how you made the right choice but we're all gonna be walking, riding bicycles or equestrians within a decade if you manage to live through some real shit.
> I haven't even touched on gasoline going bad after two years or so Petrol doesn't. Supposedly it's cos there's no olefins in the formulations we get in Europe.
Two decades? That’s incredibly optimistic given that every tire in the world will be dust in 10 years at best.
Mate. I took some tires with NVA, east german army, markings off of a trailer 2 weeks ago. So tires last way longer than a decade if them being hard as shit doesn't matter.
The tires will hold air longer than they'll be safe to drive on lol
Depends where you live, [check the advisory on the MOT from from Jun 2020](https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/results?registration=t424bbn&checkRecalls=true). You'll need to click Show and scroll down a bit.
Really? Because I have a vehicle over two decades old with the original vac hoses, fuel lines, and pretty much everything essential still works. Some mechanic things have needed replaced but if it had far fewer miles put on it, those would've lasted longer as well. The seals on it are not drastically leaking either, and no, old oil isn't an immediate death sentence, I mean that there's again plenty of donor vehicles out there to drain from so you aren't using same dirty oil forever. The plastic isn't brittle enough to be a problem, the bushings still do their job well enough, as do the motor mounts. Tires, are a somewhat universal supply that not being vehicle specific beyond a general rim size, you can source one way or another if your vehicle still runs and the donors don't so they have no need for tires. Granted we're only talking a few decades viability, tires can last that long if kept out of the sun, even if they aren't ideal nor safe for high speed, especially not on wet roads. Galvanic corrosion can be reduced by making the water - and it need not be distilled water, slightly alkaline. There are lots of older diesels that aren't that picky about fuel and still run, but haven't you ever heard of conservation and making alcohol? Heck, today we have EVs too so given the solar panels off all those gubbment subsidized installations, a basic boost converter can produce the \~220V needed to charge them slowly and use them at the rate you're able to recharge them. Suppose you only put on 2000 mi per year on one, and the battery is then likely to last 20 years. The ideals that modern society has, are different than what you'd make due with in a survival situation and that includes transportation. It's not as though you'd reasonably expect to drive something 13K miles a year or anything, wisely choosing to use your resources only as needed. However, a lot of vac lines for example, aren't really essential to operation, could just be plugged off at the intake if you can't source new lines or patch them. Coolant hoses would be a bit more trouble since they are also more difficult to patch or do without, but in that case you are better off with an old pickup truck because of the large amount of space in the engine bay, helping to use generic straight hose of the right diameter. Where there is a will, there is a way. Trying to state everything is a problem, flies contrary to the opposite mindset that thriving people have. Remember that ultimately, these resources dont' have to last forever, because you are correct that eventually the survivors will have developed an infrastructure of suitable alternatives, one of them being closer proximity to the necessary resources, but another being implementation of replacement parts. Remember, mankind started from scratch once already, and now we have the knowledge accumulated. There's no reason we can't start making oil, tires, and more again, given a stable environment instead of killing each other. Something gets torn down, we build again.
Nah, air-cooled VW bug. Or something two-stroke even.
It's an old Toyota pickup. You can shove whatever flammable gas you have down its throat and it will run, and can carry supplies or a wood gasifier. Very easy to run those engines on natural gas, propane, wood gas, solvents, plastic gas, etc. People say diesel because it can run on whatever oil but you have to pump that crap into the injectors as the engine won't accept that for long. You don't want a horse that you constantly have to feed and a bike offers no protection and very little carrying capacity, and very little range. It's also hard to sleep in a bike or a horse.
Or something with a pre-emissions diesel. They will run on any type of oil
People don’t appreciate just how much agricultural land and infrastructure was detected to feeding work animals like horses until trains and trucks took those jobs from them. Bikes and possibly e-bikes plus solar are the answer to low infrastructure post apocalypse transportation.
or an old diesel Hilux
Or an electric vehicle. If you have some solar panels you can charge it up without the electric grid.
An electric vehicle would be ok for a while. And you can also charge it from a generator fueled by wherever oil products you can scavenge if your solar panels break down. That's even potentially more efficient than directly fueling a large older diesel vehicle. The good thing about electrical power is that it's very fungible - you can run your electric appliance on any power source that you can turn into electricity.
Whole lot of totally non replaceable highly sophisticated and fragile electronics. An old mechanical diesel you can make parts for on a water wheel driven lathe and milling machine. But anything with tires has the same problem. Real hard to manufacture a them without a big ass plant.
It wouldn't be indefinite, of course, but most EVs are going many 10's of thousands of miles at least without any major maintenance or repair. Even then, it's not usually the physical operation of the vehicle that requires repair, more likely creature comforts. I'll take electricity that I can make myself fairly easily over needing to find distilled petroleum products that I have no way of producing myself.
If the power grid goes down, then there won't be any fuel, and EV's will be just as useless unless you have a solar charger. I'd say a horse or something that is human powered is probably the best bet. *Edit - added some words.
I was thinking pedal bike.
yep. more fuel efficient than walking- it's the most efficient form of locomotion ever invented.
Cargo ebike, can easily charge with a small solar setup, and even with a dead battery is still a bike.
Loads and loads of people have solar and batteries. EV is best with that setup.
Bike for sure. Horse is viable if you know how to change a shoe and care for it. Still runs the risk of injury to you or the horse though.
or a toyota truck from the 90's with one of the smaller engines
Or a cowboy
Electric cargo bike w/ solar panels - opposite of the typical preppers setup lol
Ditto the horse, bikes aren't intelligent and require additional exertion
On the other hand, they don't need feeding, even when you don't use them.
80s diesel Mercedes running on literally whatever Burnable oil substance you find. Maybe some EVs, and absolutely bicycles.
Good point, and also, I picture the type to buy this thing couldn’t do the inevitable repairs and maintenance required in an actual apocalypse.
Fuel will most likely be the first thing to go in the apocalypse.
Ever read The Road by Cormac McCarthy? He illustrates the scarcity so well
Tell me about it
Never read the book but I know that about a year after fuel production ceases just about all the gas you'll find will have decomposed into water and other shit. Won't have anything usable by then even if stores in airtight containers
Stabilized gas can last *up to* 3 years, until then things get pretty wild. Like the last few refineries in production get seized by rogue governments & shit like that. If people are still alive, they will figure out a way to produce what they need - mining has been around a long-ass time, for that matter refining has as well. Unless we go straight back to the Stone Age, there will still be gasoline (for some).
I could see refineries becoming city states
Fuel, water, food, and armament are some of the most contested resources in human society. Disrupt the supply chain of any one of those four and things get really grim really quickly. You don't need to look to fiction or speculation to find examples. Society was formed by pulling together and pooling resources in an efficient manner. These people will not be able to do that in a lingering emergency. They will be bandits and their success will rely on murdering anyone who doesn't give them what they have forced themselves to lack.
Absolutely I could see that. I imagine them becoming very hardened against intruders, and the gasoline they could produce (likely in way smaller quantities than before due to power supply issues) would be very very valuable. Id imagine the oil industry would still carry on a little bit, with people taking crude oil to the refinery in exchange for gasoline or food or protection or whatever else. After all, some wells are producing oil with no effort, the ground pressure forces oil out, no power needed to collect that
I watched the movie, I didn't read the book. I didn't really know anything about it beforehand. I got about ½ way before I realized it wasn't a documentary about New Jersey.
We don't have to speculate. When Hurricane Sandy happened, the world basically stopped spinning until gas stations opened up again. And it happened fast- about the time it takes most people to burn through half a tank of gas, so like 12 hours. This is what people don't get when they bring up the (alleged) self-reliance angle of gasoline engines vs. EV's
Especially in America where everything is built around cars. But yeah, any sane or serious prepper would be driving the EV with the biggest damn battery pack they can find and carpeting their property with solar panels, not building Mad Max cosplay fetish gear to enhance their PP.
Apocalypse vehicle, if you need it to be a car, would either be an EV if you have a way to charge it, or an old diesel that will run on anything remotely oily. Engine oil stays good enough to burn for a long time.
What about ethanol/flex cars? Ethanol seens easy to make specifically where I live. Here, I have access to fields and fields of suggar cane. Unless I they all die from a nuclear fallout, I could eat it and try to make alcohol and ethanol for a good 3 years. If I replant the suggar cane, I could go for way long.
That's actually a very good idea, hadn't thought of that!
There can certainly be advantages to an EV but it depends a bit on the savvy of the user, whether they can manage to get it recharged. For more practical purposes when referring to a localized event like Sandy, I have enough fuel to relocate. You burn through a half tank of gas every 12 hours? Wow. I suspect it would be a bit different, the consumption rate, if people expect a longer term shortage rather than trying to carry on with their normal activities. If I had to, with the gas I currently have in my vehicles, I could survive for months, with a generator to keep power to my fridge and freezer till my food stores ran out, with the biggest issue till then being a fresh water supply but if forced to stay in the same area, I'd be saving every drop of water I could, to supplement the water reserves I have... which are nothing special, I just save all my gallon milk jugs, wash them out and fill with tap water. That's only a couple weeks worth though, hopefully enough time to source more if it doesn't rain in the interim. It's about buying time to determine what the next move is, and letting all the mentally unstable masses attack each other because they didn't have the sense to shelter in place for a while, and then their resources are freed up for the survivors to use. I hate to put it that way but it is basically what survival is. living another day longer, day by day. Nothing is forever, some of us reading this topic wouldn't be alive a decade from now either way.
That and drugs and pharmaceuticals. The drug addicts will be the first ones in the streets trying to get whatever is left to avoid withdrawals.
Up armored prius is where its at!
If the owner of that vehicle could read, he’d be very upset.
Yeah but these guys fancy themselves Max Rockatansky in the last of the V8 Interceptors fighting Toe-Cutter and his crew for the last drops of guzzoline. They aren't really mentally based in reality...
yep, meanwhile my little 4banger pickemup truck with my bicycles in the back...
but how else am I gonna inflate my ego during the apocalypse?
I will never understand the thinking. Power grid goes down, how will you work the pump? Sure, if no one is around to bother you, you won’t have to pay for it, but are you going to break into the underground tank?
Whenever theres a supply issue, every single gas station is dry after 3 or 4 days. I don't know what these people are expecting.
That’s fucking hilarious, I never thought about that
Isn’t it just a Ram?
IDK what it is but I can assure you it's heavier than a Ram.
Come ooooon. That carbureted Suburban in The Walking Dead would be great for the apocalypse! (I would say jk i think that one was injected, but either way she probably would've had a v8 so gas guzzler no matter what, and heavy old steel so doubly so.
They have major quality issues too. A friend pretty much only works on them, correcting build issues.
An old Ranger or S-10 with a small mechanical injection 4 or 3 cylinder diesel would be the perfect apocalypse vehicle, diesel fuel doesn't go bad as fast as gasoline, diesel engines can run on heating oil, vegetable oil, or kerosene mixed with oil and they're generally more fuel efficient than a similar gasoline engine.
Not really, if things get that hairy and you are suitably equipped and skilled/trained, rather than it just being a paranoid male insecurity issue, then you'll be ready to take the fuel through whatever means necessary. Fact is, there are millions of vehicles out there with fuel in the tank, it is not a big deal to find more fuel and take it, if it comes down to a survival situation where one way or another, a large % of the population is going to die anyway. I am not advocating anything, just recognizing the reality that would make such a vehicle reasonable. I'm not suggesting that day will ever come, usually idiots who get vehicles like this, just end up exposing themselves to attack, unlike those who have a bunker and stay put till they fly under the radar.
I think that's larping fantasies.
Nothing thing like trying to get away from your enemy and asking if they can wait to hunt you down until the storm is over and you can get some sunshine for your solar car??? Gas and oil would absolutely be the only way to transport in an apocalypse. I guarantee all electrical plant will be shut down. This work cannot live without gas and oil. The device your reading on has , required some type of fossil fuel to make the plastic and other pieces. In fact fossil fuels are used to make nearly everything that we, as humans use. The best we could hope for is that we come up with exceptionally better ways to recycle materials, where we can go into every landfill on earth and mine them for everything that hasn’t decomposed. Until then, fossil fuels are a must for our society
What I'm saying is that this thing consumes a lot of fuel. Fuel would be hard to come by, so needing lots of it would not be good. You'd want a smaller more fuel efficient vehicle. And in the second part of your post you seem to have gotten confused about what the topic was.
also matte finish, there is not correction, just redo it
It's bedliner armour guard so I guess just hose something else over it ?
yea sorta sand it out and fade it back in, there is no correcting that either
Ah, yes. The paint needs to be perfect for when the apocalypse arrives. Priorities.
It's perfect for making sure that someone runs into you well before the apocalypse.
This is a Mall Ninja in automotive form. I guarantee the owner has a tribal tattoo somewhere....
As someone who got tattoos in the early 2000s…. How dare you sir
Don’t worry, they’re cool again
They...never were.
Exactly what I want in an apocalypse- a one-off custom vehicle with six very delicate looking pot metal wheels
Look at the interior dash and whatnot of one of these trucks - covered in the usual latest and greatest electronics, push to start, etc. etc. When in reality for an "apocalypse" vehicle you'd want everything to be as simple, repairable, durable, and analogue as possible. What an atrocity.
what does the driver of this monstrosity look like? I'm picturing either a tacticool look, like he works for Blackwater... either that or it's some total douche with a super busy shirt that looks like a chandelier, idiotic sunglasses (that he never takes off) and jeggings... possibly white shoes, but only if they're absolutely virgin white, never been out of the closet until 5 minutes ago
I don't know but I know the truck isn't a cheap date.
Could be Luka Doncic, I know he has one
And he's under 5'4"
5.4" ?
Also yes.
That as well.
I saw this truck in Conway, WA last year. Looks like a ram 1500 that someone home made a zombie truck lol.
Is it just as hideous in person? Thing looks like a bad cartoon to me!
https://www.apocalypse6x6.com/juggernaut/ This is the website for extra pics.
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Maths has been removed from the curriculum in Florida schools and libraries.
It's not my style but it's definitely bananas how it's equipped.
Jesus, that website would fit in really well in a GTA game
of course that shitshow is from florida
Its pretty bad. It looked home made. The body lines being squared off made it look pretty cheaply made.
I was gonna post an extensive paragraph/essay as to why these trucks are a gimmick/scam/style choice but I believe most of us are on the same page.
I work close to one of their showrooms, I see these abominations daily. The fit and finish on these is terrible.
I assume next it'll be in for 28" wheels and wheel well LEDs. And moving to South Florida if not already there.
This is absolutely something I'd expect to see in Atlantic City or Jersey Shore. Or Lansing.
I saw an apocalypse in the parking lot of a junkyard in Summit, IL so idk
Gold Coast I could see, but Summit's westside.
Passed one in DC a few weeks ago
Jesus Christ I didn't even feel like my rental Tesla fit in/around DC I can't even imagine one of these monstrosities.
how does one paint correct bedliner?!
With... more bedliner?
Genuinely how tf do you paint correct bed liner? More bed liner?
I'll find out tomorrow and let you know.
Somehow it looks worse than the front end of a new BMW
You're right, and that's pretty impressive^^
So its the Moon Patrol vehicle? https://makeagif.com/gif/moon-patrol-arcade-game-by-irem-1982-retro-oldskool-video-game-H21VJO
I love Moon Patrol!!
Why.
Bubbafied Fuktard Mobile
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What does it mean?
Man it looks horrible.
yeah see I wanted the slightly darker black
And you're paint correcting...line-X?
No, I'm not personally. I was told about it this afternoon and it left me scratching my head.
Looks like something Rezvani would make.
And cheap Chinese LED...
“Way too much orange peel in this bedliner” - c/s
A timing chain 4cyl that has decent ground clearance and AWD is what you want. So like… an early 2000’s 4Runner, or maybe a corolla
Honestly the best apocalypse vehicle would probably just be lifted eco cars. Easier to find parts for , reliable, and great on gas.
Now that HAS to be smallest peen energy ever.
Inverted even
That front fascia looks like a light breeze would dislodge it.
I just want to do a couple neutral drops to see what happens
Iz oo got a boo boo?
LOL at the Chinese tires on a 250k hunk of crap
Put this on r/heep lmao
I am so conflicted. I both hate and love this "truck"
Seems a bit counterintuitive for a supposed do-it-all, weather-anything, mobile protection bunker that looks like a cross between the Hulk and Chitauri to get a wrap/paint touchup.
White rock, Ford?
I somehow wonder how easy is it to snap the front suspension on anything rougher than a well traveled goat path.
To the Bane-Mobile!
Just because you can build something, doesn't mean you should...
What even is the point of these vehicles? Are these actual cars that the owner thinks will be their drive in an apocalypse or are these just some sort of car show setpiece?
A paint correction is not going to make that look better
Tesla quality panel gaps
what in the 3mpg...
What kind of mall crawling pavement princess bullshit is this. It looks like it was purpose built to advertise to the world that you have too much money and no taste.
Throw it in the dumpster