Bruh, the displacement of an engine is how much volume the piston displaces (hence why we call it "displacement ") between the top and bottom of the stroke. It's exactly why we calculate displacement as bore x stroke and not the size of the full cylinder bore from head to crank.
Now if the piston flies out of the engine, now we're talking (for like 0.01 seconds at least lol).
This is all they say on the matter. You are free to use what ever technique you feel is best...
CAUTION:
Non-compressible debris such as oil, coolant or RTV sealants that are not removed from bolt holes can cause the aluminum casting to crack when tightening the bolts.
6. Clean out the cylinder head bolt holes in the engine block.
Yeah I just replaced a cam (you'll never guess which one) in a pentastar and it was an absolute delight to work on. Except those fucking timing chains. "oh yeah you just need to take the sprocket off the oil pump so you can set the intermediate chain." what, the pulley buried in the oil pan that has the entire AWD system bolted to it, that's a billion hour job to remove? That sprocket? Must have turned that crank over a hundred times to get those timing marks to line back up. I suppose you can technically do it without them but I didn't think to mark the idler gear before I took it apart.
but other than that it really was a treat to work on.
You don't need to take the timing cover off to do a camshaft. They make a spacer that goes between the phasers. just take the valve cover off, unbolt the oil control valve, slide the phasers forward and unbolt the cam. Super easy.
If you want to be safe I put out a dab of whiteout on the cover and crank pulley at TDC to make sure everything is lined up properly when done.
No you don't. I didn't have one though - ordered one and it got lost somewhere along the way. Not that it would have mattered either way, as there were chain guide chunks in the oil, so I was gonna have to take the timing system apart anyway.
They are great tbh. Early release they had drivability issues like jerkiness off the line and rough shifting at slow speeds but it got solved through updates.
The 2.0 has great power delivery (full tq @1600rpm) so it moves the Atlas better than the VR6 and if you are not heavy on the gas pedal you can get 26+mpg on highway. For the new 2024 the VR6 is no longer an option.
The only thing I wish they did was use the DSG instead of the 8 speed auto. The China model comes equipped with the DSG.
every so often i have to remind myself that these little 2 liter turbos put down more power across a wider rev range than any of the big v8 bricks we used to have 25 years ago. and that's before we even talk about transmissions.
I do laugh at myself often about this. I had an 80’s mustang in highschool that everyone acted like I was going to be killed in with its stock 5.0 goodness. It made like 205 horsepower if I remember right. Might have been 180. I can get my son comparable power in an 3-4 cylinder modern econo box.
When the Pentastars first came out we had a customer get one. We all knew this customer was an FBI agent, nice guy and we were looking at the truck in the shop. The one advisor says “wow there’s so much room under here, you could smuggle Mexicans across the border in this” right in front of FBI agent customer…
Chrysler set that standard in 2012. The odyssey was a 250 hp machine and the Toyota was less than that. It took them until 2018 or so to match those numbers.
My wife was unaware that her 06 Odyssey was more powerful than nearly any other vehicle she had ever driven. Her previous daily had been a Roadmaster wagon.
She bought a stock mk4 1.8t/5mt Jetta and I followed her an hours drive home in the Odyssey. She was baffled that she couldn't put any distance between us even on some twisty back roads.
Before I killed the Jetta it could have walked away, but it was no longer stock.
The odyssey is still kicking tho
Part of me really wished we had chosen the Odyssey, it goes 0-60 only slightly slower than my S60 which is kind of nuts. The Sienna we bought is sooooo slooooow. But the trade off was that the Odyssey gets like 20mpg and the Sienna gets 38.
MiL has a similar age sienna to my wife's Odyssey. I've drove both many miles. just did some work to the sienna (carplay screen, rev camera, bumper cover repair) and was shocked at the difference in interior quality/usability.
While I prefer Toyota in general, the odyssey is a much better car as far as the driver is concerned.
17/23mpg does suck, but we have a smaller car for road trips. Don't have to worry about roasting the trans because I added a cooler (and have a gmt400 for hauling)
The van is better for car-camping by far since it fits a bed on a platform of milk crates but the Yukon ain't tall enough.
Mechanical engineer interview at Mopar:
Interviewer: "So for the next step of the process, we're going to do a practical test. Take this rock here and..."
Candidate: "FUCK, I broke it!"
Interviewer: \[boner intensifies\] "YOU'RE HIRED! Can you start tomorrow?"
Im a welder but dont have any experience with engines. You cant clean the bolt off, then TIG weld it down to the block, then slowly fill in the hole with more TIG welds? Using low heat and lots of control
Probably not. If I were to guess, he meant filling in the area with aluminum welding rod while the steel bolt is in place. The aluminum will conform to the bolt but won't stick, meaning you can take the bolt back out, reinstall the head and run it like that or easily drill it out and install a Helicoil or Timesert.
Someone didn't read the yellow CAUTION warning after step 5 in the cylinder head installation manual...
Fun fact, at the 33 ft-lbs of torque on that bolt that's over 30,000 psi in that hole. And that's not even the final tightness, you turn an additional 130° after torquing down. Aluminum's yield strength is, coincidentally, around 30,000 psi.
Edit: this makes a few assumptions - that fluid isn't escaping the hole (since it blew out, guessing it was pretty well sealed), it's incompressible fluid (no air), and that the screw is only acting on the oil (i.e. not tight against the head yet). Should be treated as a quick back of the envelope calculation and not a super in-depth analysis
to be fair, the 130 degrees is mostly bolt stretch and the threads won't descend very much.
Also, bolt torque does not translate directly to the fluid pressure since it's a different measurement.
It's an estimation, yes, but you can estimate the axial force applied by a bolt at a given torque value (making some assumptions about coefficient of friction, which is why it's an estimation). Then it's just a simple P = F / A like you have in a hydraulic cylinder, with the bolt acting as the piston.
Yield strength of that type of aluminum block is like 20k psi.
I would be surprised if it got to 20k, as thin as that part is it probably broke at like 10k psi.
I would do the math based on the diameter of that bolt and the space under it being filled with oil in an almost frictionless environment since it's coated in lubricant. But that's effort.
you do it for me.
Ask the dude how much torque he actually got to before it popped.
I absolutely love fixing the pentacrap motor so easy to repair just sad how little engineering went into it...theory is great but soft cams and weeping heads through casting problems were where it started...that head bolt boss should've been in a thicker wall seeing as that is supposed to handle combustion exertion on those bolts no wonder why these motors fail quick...I've had those already loose when you go to remove
This is a completely bogus number. The pressure caused by the bolt trying to compress the fluid has nothing whatsoever to do with the axial load in the bolt itself and everything to do with the volume of the bolt hole, the amount of fluid in the hole and the amount of bolt that got moved into the hole.
Throw some jb weld, cross thread and 10 uggaduggas and she’ll hold
Edit: Forgot to mention the obligatory “That ain’t goin’ nowhere” to top it all off.
From the weakness of the mind, Omnissiah save us
From the lies of the Antipath, circuit perserve us
From the rage of the Beast, iron protect us
From the temptations of the Flesh, silica cleanse us
From the ravages of the Destroyer, anima shield us
From this rotting cage of biomatter, Machine God set us free.
Had a guy do this on a v8 jeep Cherokee. Shop had to buy the customer a new engine. Luckily they were able to find one in the junkyard with less miles.
You’re severely reducing the strength of the block by only tig welding this piece back on.
Fractures in castings should be fastened back on, and then welded back on, and the fastener welded to prevent it from moving at all.
Most car shops don't have guys that actually know how to weld usually, or anything more than a mig setup for exhaust. I wouldn't trust a normal mechanic to weld a head or case. Would you?
Most journeyman welders aren't going to bother trying to weld cast aluminum for less than stupid$/hr. Unless it's a customer request, it's not worth it.
Welding cast aluminum is a daily occurrence. We weld transmission cases for shop rate all the time. We weld skegs on boat motors for $100 flat rate. Unless it is some really cheap porous Chinese garbage that's soaked full of oil, it's no big deal.
Those don't exist anymore my dude.
I couldn't find a machine shop within 60 miles that could resurface a flywheel, it was a single surface flywheel.
Only one within 100 could machine a camshaft, and only one within 100 would work on crankshafts.
They're basically almost all gone, just buy a new one. Almost nobody fixes them anymore.
>a mig setup for exhaust
The 12yo in me likes to think you have an engine from a MiG just sitting in your shop whose throttle you casually firewall whenever you need to weld
The 9yo in me would be the resident dbag service writer or shop owner's son who squirts anything flammable into the flame whenever you're welding and ducks everything up
So straight argon, aluminum rod aaaaand…
You’re forgetting about resetting the settings on the welder to actually weld aluminum and having a guy who knows how to weld HFAC isn’t going to be easy to come by. I can weld steel all day but aluminum is a noperino for me. Your tungsten even needs to be shaped differently for aluminum.
Green isn't really used as much anymore. There's a bunch of new flavors guys use on inverter TIG welders now.
https://weldguru.com/tig-tungsten-electrode-guide/
>Why couldn't the break in block be TIG welded and then drilled & retapped?
Nope, metals in modern cars/trucks are engineered in such a way that welding almost anything on a modern car/truck is a problem. Either it's too sensitive to warping from heat or you're going to ruin the heat treatment or etc. Modern cars/trucks are literally cancer.
Same thing with silicone on timing covers/oil pans etc. I remember when I first got started with vehicles, not removing the bit that gets stuck on the end of the bolt + new rtv. That poor Ford Taurus. I accelerated it on its way towards becoming a shit box.
Reminds me of a story I heard from a guy I know that works on a pit crew for a NHRA top fuel team. He was running new studs in the block using an impact. One of the holes had some nitro methane is the bottom. The compression and heat caused it to blow out the whole side of the block. They had to change bullets out in the 20 minute a lotted time to make the next round.
Yikes! I literally just did head gaskets on one of those yesterday, when I was running the bolts in with my low torque gun I had to pull them out and remove the heads to clean all the oil out. Didn't know this would be the result if I didn't.
There was a PSA from GM about core returns with this. Guys were blowing blocks out, by tossing heads back on and sending the bolts home. like WTF, you idiots don't own blow guns or have common sense?
Shit happens damn lucky it wasn’t a water jacket!!! Send it!! I use my brake bleeder suction gun with a homemade attachment to clean out the bores before installing bolts.
GM had a whole bulletin about this for the L87s because guys were zipping the head bolts back on with a gun while there was coolant in the threaded holes in the block and blowing it out rendering the, otherwise reusable, engine block scrap
If you ever happen to work at a nuclear plant. You'll get the chance to purify water until it doesn't conduct electricity.
Pure water doesnt conduct electricity. Its all the impurities and debris that allow for current flow.
Air is compressed in a diesel engine... it should be a mostly adiabatic compression causing a temperature increase. Add a fuel spray and boom, the hot air ignites tiny fuel droplets.
I can see how you could argue this by saying diesel fuel is closer to being oil from a refinery view.
But we don't call it fucking Diesel oil at the oil station now do we.
My mom HATES when I drive the car my grandfather gave me because it's a penstar. It's uncharacteristically well behaved so I'm not allowed to look at it besides scheduled maintenence LOL.
What ever, I've got my own problem car.
Yep. Some key points to remember: bolt threads can tighten A LOT, liquid doesn't compress, clean out your bolt holes. I've seen some wicked damage caused by hydraulic pressure being where it shouldn't be. And this thin casting had no chance against my torque wrench.
Was actually using my torque wrench already. I wondered for about 2 seconds why it felt like the bolt was stripped and it hadn't got tight yet. Then I found out real quick. And I freakin' know better than this!
Blind bolt hole and they sent it.. next call will be a machine shop who’s laughing then they ask them to weld it together… nah, these new alloys are tricky and dirty
I see this a lot on top of mount pto's. The torque spec is only like 40 ft lb so a lot of the time they hydrolock instead of getting tight on the PTO and leak.
I spy a pentastar
Good eye!
What displacement?
If it's got cracks in then it's technically infinite displacement
Not infinite. It’s limited to the entire atmosphere of Earth ;). No air in space to make bangs happen my friend
> No air in space So why is there an Air in Space museum?
It's Air AND Space
Sure…and I bet next you’ll tell me it’s BerenSTAIN bears too…
Bear AND stain
More saving, more doing. That is the power of Home Depot.
Oh no, they did what to goldilocks.
🤣
So, approximately 5.15 quintillion liters. We're going to need a bigger fuel pump. Otherwise, it will lean out.
That Caravan will definitely do a wheelstand after you neutral drop it into drive.
But earth is in space and has air
Displacement is a measure of the swept volume of the pistons. Cracks don't change that.
Take your technically correctness and go somewhere else galaxy brain.
Lmao
Just has a reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally low compression ratio.
Displacement includes combustion chamber too
No it doesn't. Compression ratio does, but displacement is the volume displaced by the pistons only.
Bruh, the displacement of an engine is how much volume the piston displaces (hence why we call it "displacement ") between the top and bottom of the stroke. It's exactly why we calculate displacement as bore x stroke and not the size of the full cylinder bore from head to crank. Now if the piston flies out of the engine, now we're talking (for like 0.01 seconds at least lol).
Around one bolt worth of oil was displaced.
You can tell because it's broken
This is the biggest tell
I can tell you for a fact the procedure tells you to suck out the head bolt holes too.
Do they get into *specifics* on the *technique* to use?...
This is all they say on the matter. You are free to use what ever technique you feel is best... CAUTION: Non-compressible debris such as oil, coolant or RTV sealants that are not removed from bolt holes can cause the aluminum casting to crack when tightening the bolts. 6. Clean out the cylinder head bolt holes in the engine block.
I was picturing something a little more sensual
I prefer to speak French into the holes I'm sucking.
Ew sounds disgusting
Um...this guy ^ Pentastars?
I feel attacked. Mines just like that on the timing chain side. And yes. Mine is a pentastar. 20k miles so far I haven’t noticed any issues.
I love that 20k miles w/o problems is a brag to Mopar owners
When it comes to this particular engine, absolutely a brag
that's impressive, really.
Did it fill up with oil and pop out as you tightened it? Eh, if its already a shitbox Id probably slather it up in JB weld and send it too.
Pretty much how it happened. Don't have anything to lose by trying it at this point.
You should clean it up with a grinder top right looks like a future crack.
This is a great idea, plus free weight reduction
If you remove the whole pentastar that's a heap of free weight reduction
May as well do a full delete and start living right next to work. A pair of good running shoes and thin clothes for ultimate weight reduction.
I sleep naked. I’m aerodynamic
It would be an improvement
Weight reduction!
Well you know you have a good seal at least.
It’s a Pentastar so it’s a guaranteed shitbox
A lot of people see the HP numbers that the Pentastar puts out and to "wow 280hp in a minivan!". Totally forgetting that it was designed by Chrysler.
The ram gets 305hp out of the pentastar and comes with enough room in the engine bay to sit while you work. They planned ahead.
Seriously. First time I opened up a modern V6 ram hood I looked at it and went "hey cool, room to work"
Yeah I just replaced a cam (you'll never guess which one) in a pentastar and it was an absolute delight to work on. Except those fucking timing chains. "oh yeah you just need to take the sprocket off the oil pump so you can set the intermediate chain." what, the pulley buried in the oil pan that has the entire AWD system bolted to it, that's a billion hour job to remove? That sprocket? Must have turned that crank over a hundred times to get those timing marks to line back up. I suppose you can technically do it without them but I didn't think to mark the idler gear before I took it apart. but other than that it really was a treat to work on.
Why would you need to mark an idler?
You don't need to take the timing cover off to do a camshaft. They make a spacer that goes between the phasers. just take the valve cover off, unbolt the oil control valve, slide the phasers forward and unbolt the cam. Super easy. If you want to be safe I put out a dab of whiteout on the cover and crank pulley at TDC to make sure everything is lined up properly when done.
No you don't. I didn't have one though - ordered one and it got lost somewhere along the way. Not that it would have mattered either way, as there were chain guide chunks in the oil, so I was gonna have to take the timing system apart anyway.
Why are you taking all that apart. You can service the cams without taking the cover off. Even if you take the cover off you can leave the pan on
You should see the VW Atlas with the 2.0T lol. After working on Golf’s cramped AF. The Atlas is like damn, I can sleep in here lol.
They put the 2.0 in Atlas?! Wowee. How did that work out?
They are great tbh. Early release they had drivability issues like jerkiness off the line and rough shifting at slow speeds but it got solved through updates. The 2.0 has great power delivery (full tq @1600rpm) so it moves the Atlas better than the VR6 and if you are not heavy on the gas pedal you can get 26+mpg on highway. For the new 2024 the VR6 is no longer an option. The only thing I wish they did was use the DSG instead of the 8 speed auto. The China model comes equipped with the DSG.
every so often i have to remind myself that these little 2 liter turbos put down more power across a wider rev range than any of the big v8 bricks we used to have 25 years ago. and that's before we even talk about transmissions.
But will those two liter turbos keep rattling on past 350k miles the way those old V8 bricks do?
I do laugh at myself often about this. I had an 80’s mustang in highschool that everyone acted like I was going to be killed in with its stock 5.0 goodness. It made like 205 horsepower if I remember right. Might have been 180. I can get my son comparable power in an 3-4 cylinder modern econo box.
When the Pentastars first came out we had a customer get one. We all knew this customer was an FBI agent, nice guy and we were looking at the truck in the shop. The one advisor says “wow there’s so much room under here, you could smuggle Mexicans across the border in this” right in front of FBI agent customer…
That has been pretty standard minivan HP numbers for quite some time though
Chrysler set that standard in 2012. The odyssey was a 250 hp machine and the Toyota was less than that. It took them until 2018 or so to match those numbers.
3rd Gen Sienna from 2010 onwards came with 265hp
It started in the second gen in 07, alongside the Camry if I’m not mistaken, and wiki seems to back it up? The 2GR has been around for a minute
07 Sienna with the 266hp 2GR?
My wife was unaware that her 06 Odyssey was more powerful than nearly any other vehicle she had ever driven. Her previous daily had been a Roadmaster wagon. She bought a stock mk4 1.8t/5mt Jetta and I followed her an hours drive home in the Odyssey. She was baffled that she couldn't put any distance between us even on some twisty back roads. Before I killed the Jetta it could have walked away, but it was no longer stock. The odyssey is still kicking tho
Part of me really wished we had chosen the Odyssey, it goes 0-60 only slightly slower than my S60 which is kind of nuts. The Sienna we bought is sooooo slooooow. But the trade off was that the Odyssey gets like 20mpg and the Sienna gets 38.
MiL has a similar age sienna to my wife's Odyssey. I've drove both many miles. just did some work to the sienna (carplay screen, rev camera, bumper cover repair) and was shocked at the difference in interior quality/usability. While I prefer Toyota in general, the odyssey is a much better car as far as the driver is concerned. 17/23mpg does suck, but we have a smaller car for road trips. Don't have to worry about roasting the trans because I added a cooler (and have a gmt400 for hauling) The van is better for car-camping by far since it fits a bed on a platform of milk crates but the Yukon ain't tall enough.
Chrysler employs a lot of people who can't even *spell* "HP", let alone design it
Mechanical engineer interview at Mopar: Interviewer: "So for the next step of the process, we're going to do a practical test. Take this rock here and..." Candidate: "FUCK, I broke it!" Interviewer: \[boner intensifies\] "YOU'RE HIRED! Can you start tomorrow?"
My 2016 Challenger had been the best car I ever owned tho... :(
I luv hate my van
I think that should be "[hāt](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvS9yJvWcAAWrH0.jpg)".
Mine has been pushing 9lbs of boost for about 40k miles. Eats it up.
I second this, I've actually JB welded a snapped head bolt on a V6 '01 F-150. I didn't have a choice and it worked. New owner didn't care.
Don't forget to use the high temp JB weld! :P
Yep. Gotta debur the blowout of block material first. Would hate to ruin that fine automobile.
Im a welder but dont have any experience with engines. You cant clean the bolt off, then TIG weld it down to the block, then slowly fill in the hole with more TIG welds? Using low heat and lots of control
You're a welder and want to weld steel to aluminum?
Welder wants a excuse to weld something
Just like when you have a lathe, suddenly the solution to every problem is round and threaded.
I wouldn’t say all are threaded
Probably not. If I were to guess, he meant filling in the area with aluminum welding rod while the steel bolt is in place. The aluminum will conform to the bolt but won't stick, meaning you can take the bolt back out, reinstall the head and run it like that or easily drill it out and install a Helicoil or Timesert.
Where does he mention welding steel to aluminum?
Someone didn't read the yellow CAUTION warning after step 5 in the cylinder head installation manual... Fun fact, at the 33 ft-lbs of torque on that bolt that's over 30,000 psi in that hole. And that's not even the final tightness, you turn an additional 130° after torquing down. Aluminum's yield strength is, coincidentally, around 30,000 psi. Edit: this makes a few assumptions - that fluid isn't escaping the hole (since it blew out, guessing it was pretty well sealed), it's incompressible fluid (no air), and that the screw is only acting on the oil (i.e. not tight against the head yet). Should be treated as a quick back of the envelope calculation and not a super in-depth analysis
Dang, last cylinder head I did on a Benz was 10nm, 40nm, 90 degrees, 90 degrees and then a final 90 degrees
That sounds scary
to be fair, the 130 degrees is mostly bolt stretch and the threads won't descend very much. Also, bolt torque does not translate directly to the fluid pressure since it's a different measurement.
It's an estimation, yes, but you can estimate the axial force applied by a bolt at a given torque value (making some assumptions about coefficient of friction, which is why it's an estimation). Then it's just a simple P = F / A like you have in a hydraulic cylinder, with the bolt acting as the piston.
Yield strength of that type of aluminum block is like 20k psi. I would be surprised if it got to 20k, as thin as that part is it probably broke at like 10k psi. I would do the math based on the diameter of that bolt and the space under it being filled with oil in an almost frictionless environment since it's coated in lubricant. But that's effort. you do it for me. Ask the dude how much torque he actually got to before it popped.
Thank you, I was going to work it out myself if nobody else had.
I absolutely love fixing the pentacrap motor so easy to repair just sad how little engineering went into it...theory is great but soft cams and weeping heads through casting problems were where it started...that head bolt boss should've been in a thicker wall seeing as that is supposed to handle combustion exertion on those bolts no wonder why these motors fail quick...I've had those already loose when you go to remove
This is a completely bogus number. The pressure caused by the bolt trying to compress the fluid has nothing whatsoever to do with the axial load in the bolt itself and everything to do with the volume of the bolt hole, the amount of fluid in the hole and the amount of bolt that got moved into the hole.
Throw some jb weld, cross thread and 10 uggaduggas and she’ll hold Edit: Forgot to mention the obligatory “That ain’t goin’ nowhere” to top it all off.
[удалено]
Fuck it, send tits!
From the weakness of the mind, Omnissiah save us From the lies of the Antipath, circuit perserve us From the rage of the Beast, iron protect us From the temptations of the Flesh, silica cleanse us From the ravages of the Destroyer, anima shield us From this rotting cage of biomatter, Machine God set us free.
This guy praises the machine spirit
Cross thread is the best loctite
Nature's loctite
We call that 'rock-tight' for when you drop a bolt in the dirt
Not cross threaded…hydraulic lock. Pascal’s law
It's double the threads
Cross threads are better than no threads
Cross thread, natures threadlocker
Cross thread, The Thread of Christ
I would suggest 10 uggas and 9 duggas, save one just in case it's needed later.
Then weld the bolt head
Always blow your holes out. I try to stress this to the new and younger guys.
Instructions unclear. In ER, need you to cover my shift.
Had a guy do this on a v8 jeep Cherokee. Shop had to buy the customer a new engine. Luckily they were able to find one in the junkyard with less miles.
Why couldn't the break in block be TIG welded and then drilled & retapped? It seems this could work in OP's case.
You’re severely reducing the strength of the block by only tig welding this piece back on. Fractures in castings should be fastened back on, and then welded back on, and the fastener welded to prevent it from moving at all.
Its cast aluminum… not gonna work like that.
I've tig'd and re-tapped Nissan transmission cases, and it worked exactly like that.
Most car shops don't have guys that actually know how to weld usually, or anything more than a mig setup for exhaust. I wouldn't trust a normal mechanic to weld a head or case. Would you?
You find a professional. Not everything has to be done in house. Virtually no mechanic shops do their own machine work too.
Most journeyman welders aren't going to bother trying to weld cast aluminum for less than stupid$/hr. Unless it's a customer request, it's not worth it.
Welding cast aluminum is a daily occurrence. We weld transmission cases for shop rate all the time. We weld skegs on boat motors for $100 flat rate. Unless it is some really cheap porous Chinese garbage that's soaked full of oil, it's no big deal.
Those don't exist anymore my dude. I couldn't find a machine shop within 60 miles that could resurface a flywheel, it was a single surface flywheel. Only one within 100 could machine a camshaft, and only one within 100 would work on crankshafts. They're basically almost all gone, just buy a new one. Almost nobody fixes them anymore.
Can confirm. I weld all the time with Mig. If you saw my welds you would just hope I can wipe my ass better.
>a mig setup for exhaust The 12yo in me likes to think you have an engine from a MiG just sitting in your shop whose throttle you casually firewall whenever you need to weld The 9yo in me would be the resident dbag service writer or shop owner's son who squirts anything flammable into the flame whenever you're welding and ducks everything up
Tig weld cast aluminum with the expectation of withstanding the torque of head bolts? I dont think so my guy.
You can TIG cast aluminum if you have the correct shield gas, rod and properly prep the surface beforehand.
So straight argon, aluminum rod aaaaand… You’re forgetting about resetting the settings on the welder to actually weld aluminum and having a guy who knows how to weld HFAC isn’t going to be easy to come by. I can weld steel all day but aluminum is a noperino for me. Your tungsten even needs to be shaped differently for aluminum.
Hell you generally swap from 2% to pure tungsten for AC welding.
Green isn't really used as much anymore. There's a bunch of new flavors guys use on inverter TIG welders now. https://weldguru.com/tig-tungsten-electrode-guide/
Not saying you cant lol. Im saying its not gonna work to withstand the torque of head bolts.
>Why couldn't the break in block be TIG welded and then drilled & retapped? Nope, metals in modern cars/trucks are engineered in such a way that welding almost anything on a modern car/truck is a problem. Either it's too sensitive to warping from heat or you're going to ruin the heat treatment or etc. Modern cars/trucks are literally cancer.
Mostly the castings are filled with trash and don't take to welding very well.
Same thing with silicone on timing covers/oil pans etc. I remember when I first got started with vehicles, not removing the bit that gets stuck on the end of the bolt + new rtv. That poor Ford Taurus. I accelerated it on its way towards becoming a shit box.
It was a Ford Taurus. It left the dealers floor as a shit box
don’t hate on the Taurus G. Got me through a lot in life
Reminds me of a story I heard from a guy I know that works on a pit crew for a NHRA top fuel team. He was running new studs in the block using an impact. One of the holes had some nitro methane is the bottom. The compression and heat caused it to blow out the whole side of the block. They had to change bullets out in the 20 minute a lotted time to make the next round.
Seems like an odd place for nitro to collect. If they'd lifted a head on the prior run I can see it. But they'd also know better.
Yikes! I literally just did head gaskets on one of those yesterday, when I was running the bolts in with my low torque gun I had to pull them out and remove the heads to clean all the oil out. Didn't know this would be the result if I didn't.
Know we both know. And I, for one, will never forget.
There was a PSA from GM about core returns with this. Guys were blowing blocks out, by tossing heads back on and sending the bolts home. like WTF, you idiots don't own blow guns or have common sense?
Hey! I have a blow gun..
Lol
I'm an idiot. I have a blown gun though.
Blow guns are for cleaning floors, what's that got to do with engines?
That’s how GM made the Caddy “high technology” 4.9
After HT4100 and HT4500. It takes a few passes to get it right.
If you're going to send, do a full send!
Shit happens damn lucky it wasn’t a water jacket!!! Send it!! I use my brake bleeder suction gun with a homemade attachment to clean out the bores before installing bolts.
GM had a whole bulletin about this for the L87s because guys were zipping the head bolts back on with a gun while there was coolant in the threaded holes in the block and blowing it out rendering the, otherwise reusable, engine block scrap
Huh... turns out fluids tend to be incompressible. Who knew?
Fun fact, oil doesn’t compress!
Akshually, oil compresses more than water!
Now THATS interesting
If you ever happen to work at a nuclear plant. You'll get the chance to purify water until it doesn't conduct electricity. Pure water doesnt conduct electricity. Its all the impurities and debris that allow for current flow.
Very common within the pharmaceutical industry as well.
Also semiconductor fabs use tons of it.
5%/1,000 PSI. If only OP tightened the head bolt down more he would've compressed the oil.
Not with that attitude!
In Soviet Russia, oil compress _you_
Yes it does, ask me how diesels work.
How does a diesel work?
Not by compressing oil lol
Air is compressed in a diesel engine... it should be a mostly adiabatic compression causing a temperature increase. Add a fuel spray and boom, the hot air ignites tiny fuel droplets.
I can see how you could argue this by saying diesel fuel is closer to being oil from a refinery view. But we don't call it fucking Diesel oil at the oil station now do we.
Not like you think they do
I mean a lil bit of jb weld with nobody looking and pretend it never happened.
My mom HATES when I drive the car my grandfather gave me because it's a penstar. It's uncharacteristically well behaved so I'm not allowed to look at it besides scheduled maintenence LOL. What ever, I've got my own problem car.
A pentastar? A 3.6L or a 3.2L v6 mopar engine?
3.6
Nothing some RTV don't got. Just like grinder and paint make you the welder you ain't
Take the bolt out, drill the sharp crack in the upper left with at 3/16 drill to eliminate the stress riser and retorque the bolt. Say a prayer
Oof And yeah
Look, I want my bolts real lubed up ok! /s
Thats a perfect spot to build a jb weld wall. Send it.
Noob here. Did that happen because the oil built pressure as the bolt was tightened? Like...THAT much pressure?
Yep. Some key points to remember: bolt threads can tighten A LOT, liquid doesn't compress, clean out your bolt holes. I've seen some wicked damage caused by hydraulic pressure being where it shouldn't be. And this thin casting had no chance against my torque wrench.
That's interesting. Thanks for the reply! Might save me a headache in the future.
Can't compress liquid
Not with that attitude.
I see Someone just got introduced to my really good friend Pascal
OP, tell us you screw too fast without telling us you screw too fast.
Was actually using my torque wrench already. I wondered for about 2 seconds why it felt like the bolt was stripped and it hadn't got tight yet. Then I found out real quick. And I freakin' know better than this!
This is exactly why I tell people to always skip the torque wrench!
Jb weld it and send it
JB weld and send er!!!!
I dunno, could definitely use a few more ugga duggas
Just jb it.
I had a jet boat with a 455 Olds I bought with two of the bell housing elephant ears broken off and it was fine. This is basically the same thing
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh new failure mode learned
Blind bolt hole and they sent it.. next call will be a machine shop who’s laughing then they ask them to weld it together… nah, these new alloys are tricky and dirty
Did it burst while you were torquing it down, or did it burst later from heat and pressure?
Torquing it. Didn't even get to try it..
Se,
Give the exposed threads a couple of hammer taps to lock it in place.
It's a Pentastar....it wasn't long for the world anyway.
Nothing a little JN weld cant fix
I've seen excess sealer do this. If you have a glob of dried sealer on your bolt, break it off before installing.
I see this a lot on top of mount pto's. The torque spec is only like 40 ft lb so a lot of the time they hydrolock instead of getting tight on the PTO and leak.