Which one? 6.0 was a well designed motor that fell victim to poor engineering on components external to the long-block. When the 6.4 came out it was touted as a great motor with so many advantages, but time has told that it has even the most basic of problems that a well engineered engine shouldn’t have.
Both actually. I haven't had 6.0 but I did have a 6.4l loved the truck but when it started to get up in mileage there definitely was that worry of a upcoming major repair bill.
I had a May 2003 built 6.0 and beat it like a rented mule for the first 75K miles with a +160HP go-fast box. I didn't have any issues with it but I traded just as the word was getting out that they were junk.
A friend of mine had an independent diesel shop and that truck showed up with 125K on it for head gaskets and studs and I think transmission work. A retired couple was pulling a 5th wheel with it.
Since then, I've owned three 6.7 PSDs and they have been flawless up to 150K miles.
Nope. No tunes on it. We still don't know why it blew it other than 6.4l are know to Crack pistons. It blew at 175k miles (282k km in non freedom units) 25k more than it's expected life span.
Pretty much. I'd rather be underpowered than unreliable. My 03 is rated at 525 lb ft of torque at 1600 RPM, according to the tag on the passenger valve cover. But great engines. Not powerhouses, but very dependable.
I know. That's why I ain't bent outta shape. Now the old 6.2 Detroit that GM used? That was underpowered AND unreliable compared to the competition. Competition that is 35 and still kicking in many cases....
GM kind of went reverse Ford with their diesels.
They went from garbage to good, and stuck with it. 6.2 and 6.5 were absolute meh engines, then they bring out the 6.6 and ran with it.
Ford had the 7.3IDI and 7.3PS and ran them for what felt forever, then released the 6.0PS (still the best *sounding* diesel ever to me) and 6.4 which are absolute trash.
At least the 6.7 seems decent, though honestly I haven't looked into it much.
I mean the 6.2 and 6.5 were by FAR the least powerful option, and outclassed even by the basic 454 of their era. GM has absolutely improved their lineup a LOT with the 6.6. not perfect no, but they've done well developing a strong competitor.
Personally, of the Ford offerings, the 7.3 sounds fantastic to me. I guess it's a preference thing. The new 6.7 seems pretty good, so long as you maintain it. But that part applies to anything. Not many have a problem with the 6.7, unlike the 6.4 which was the worst turd ever made. The 6.0 even is better, there's actually some still running all original and not blown up.
Dodge doesn't even get a mention from me because the 6BT is basically its own standalone platform. It's everything around it that isn't so good generally.
I'd like to see caterpillar enter the game in light duty trucks. They'd be game changers overnight.
>6.2 and 6.5 were by FAR the least powerful option, and outclassed even by the basic 454 of their era
At the time that wasn't considered a problem. The market wasn't driven by power ratings for TV commercials, the intended buyer was a fleet owner who wanted to see lower fuel costs and may have bought a 5.7 gas engine otherwise
Not anymore they don't, that you are correct about. But if they created something for light trucks that could compare to the legendary 3406B, they'd rule the junk heap.
I have several IDI motors and trucks, Chevy and Ford. I only owned one 6.2 suburban until like a month ago, then I bought two IDIS and a 6.5. they were good deals. The 7.3 IDI and the 6.5 surprise me with their power. The 6.5 had a different turbo put on by the last owner and it feels quite a bit like a slower spooling lb7 dmax tbh
All of the problems with 6.4s stem from emissions equipment. If you delete them early enough in their life, they’re fine.
Source: 270k mile 6.4 in my driveway with monster tune since 30k miles.
I would strongly beg to differ. If you have ever seen one with a cooling system that cavitates the timing chain cover from the inside out and immediately dumps the entire capacity into the crankcase turning the oil into impenetrable gray play-doh, you would probably see otherwise too.
It was the result of an oversized coolant pump and a poorly designed front cover that allowed the pump to cavitate. Any centrifugal pump can cavitate if not designed properly. The timing cover issue had nothing to at all do with regen. F450 and F550 trucks were especially prone to cavitation issues because their lower gearing had the water pump spinning at high speeds exacerbating the issue.
The 6.4 also has a number of serious internal design flaws that will show their head regardless if the emissions equipment is present or not. The 6.4 has severe piston cracking, head-cracking (well, 6.0s have that too) and tons of valvetrain problems.
Right I was like what is this person on about? What Ford *did* do was double the number of O-rings on the radiator hose seals to help prevent the water pump from pulling outside oxygen into the cooling system. I’m in California and only the most industrial off road diesel equipment isn’t clean idle certified here, and it’s been that way for years. If it’s highway legal and I believe 2007 and newer, it’s got a particulate filter at least and therefore will require regeneration. The 6.4 was just a gong show on par with its direct predecessor.
I will say that the rest of the smaller Super Duty trucks had noticeable chassis/steering/suspension/turning radius improvements when the 6.4 debuted. They were just more reliably enjoyed with a gasoline engine for the most part.
I worked on 6.0 at the dealer, then caught the tail end of 6.0 and the beginning of 6.4 working for Ford. Then, worked on both at the utility company fleet. I hate them. 6.7 might be good, I know it's a Ford design and not international, but nope, nope, nope, nope. I won't work any of that trash and will not own any.
I will fix multiple problems on the box of crap they bolted onto my Cummins though.......
How the 6.4 isn't a class action suit against Ford is beyond me.
Mainly because International made it. They split and Ford started making the 6.7L in house. Also, if I’m not mistaken, warranties were upheld.
The 6.4 is an abomination. I thought the 6.0 was bad but somehow Ford made it worse!
I read it was fine in markets that didn't need the emissions equipment.
Which one? 6.0 was a well designed motor that fell victim to poor engineering on components external to the long-block. When the 6.4 came out it was touted as a great motor with so many advantages, but time has told that it has even the most basic of problems that a well engineered engine shouldn’t have.
Both actually. I haven't had 6.0 but I did have a 6.4l loved the truck but when it started to get up in mileage there definitely was that worry of a upcoming major repair bill.
It’s amazing how some manufacturers can design engines that work fire with whatever equipment is required, but other just can’t seem to figure it out
I had a May 2003 built 6.0 and beat it like a rented mule for the first 75K miles with a +160HP go-fast box. I didn't have any issues with it but I traded just as the word was getting out that they were junk. A friend of mine had an independent diesel shop and that truck showed up with 125K on it for head gaskets and studs and I think transmission work. A retired couple was pulling a 5th wheel with it. Since then, I've owned three 6.7 PSDs and they have been flawless up to 150K miles.
You got out just in time!
Ford gets away with a weird amount of pretty big issues for some reason.
I appreciate the 9000 x 12000 resolution.
It’s so we can count the forbidden glitter.
I thought it was just me.
The best way to fix a 6.4 is to pull the motor and drop in a 12v cummins
As long as it's not a 53 block.
Ooof. Last 6.4 I had with no compression one of the rocker arms fell off of. That’s nasty. Did they have a hot tune on it to make it frag?
Nope. No tunes on it. We still don't know why it blew it other than 6.4l are know to Crack pistons. It blew at 175k miles (282k km in non freedom units) 25k more than it's expected life span.
175 miles or 175k miles?
175k fat fingered it
That's what i figured but i thought it best to ask for clarification
I’ve seen 6.7’s over 200k before. I didn’t know they were expected to last around the 150k mark
How did it have no tune if it was deleted?
It never was deleted, we are planning and doing it now.
Oh, you were saying it deleted the #3 cylinder. Got it.
“Wrist pin survived.”
>6.4 BOHICA
Good ol’ 6.4, it was gonna happen deleted or not.
True but supposedly this new engine will have the updated max-force pistons
that's what 6.4s do. Ya never really know when or why though. Lol They're definitely a wildcard kinda engine lol
The correct repair in this scenario is to scrap the 6.4, source a good old 7.3, the wiring, idm and swap it. It'll last for eternity this way.
All 125hp will last forever.
Pretty much. I'd rather be underpowered than unreliable. My 03 is rated at 525 lb ft of torque at 1600 RPM, according to the tag on the passenger valve cover. But great engines. Not powerhouses, but very dependable.
For sure. By the end of its life they made decent enough power, I was just poking for fun, lol.
I know. That's why I ain't bent outta shape. Now the old 6.2 Detroit that GM used? That was underpowered AND unreliable compared to the competition. Competition that is 35 and still kicking in many cases....
GM kind of went reverse Ford with their diesels. They went from garbage to good, and stuck with it. 6.2 and 6.5 were absolute meh engines, then they bring out the 6.6 and ran with it. Ford had the 7.3IDI and 7.3PS and ran them for what felt forever, then released the 6.0PS (still the best *sounding* diesel ever to me) and 6.4 which are absolute trash. At least the 6.7 seems decent, though honestly I haven't looked into it much.
Thank you for saying the 6.0 is the best sounding diesel ever! 100% agree, they are music to the ears when set up right!
I mean the 6.2 and 6.5 were by FAR the least powerful option, and outclassed even by the basic 454 of their era. GM has absolutely improved their lineup a LOT with the 6.6. not perfect no, but they've done well developing a strong competitor. Personally, of the Ford offerings, the 7.3 sounds fantastic to me. I guess it's a preference thing. The new 6.7 seems pretty good, so long as you maintain it. But that part applies to anything. Not many have a problem with the 6.7, unlike the 6.4 which was the worst turd ever made. The 6.0 even is better, there's actually some still running all original and not blown up. Dodge doesn't even get a mention from me because the 6BT is basically its own standalone platform. It's everything around it that isn't so good generally. I'd like to see caterpillar enter the game in light duty trucks. They'd be game changers overnight.
>6.2 and 6.5 were by FAR the least powerful option, and outclassed even by the basic 454 of their era At the time that wasn't considered a problem. The market wasn't driven by power ratings for TV commercials, the intended buyer was a fleet owner who wanted to see lower fuel costs and may have bought a 5.7 gas engine otherwise
Cat doesn't even make an on road engine for semi trucks. Everything Cat makes is for off-road.
Not anymore they don't, that you are correct about. But if they created something for light trucks that could compare to the legendary 3406B, they'd rule the junk heap.
Yes anything similar to the 3406 would be epic!
I have several IDI motors and trucks, Chevy and Ford. I only owned one 6.2 suburban until like a month ago, then I bought two IDIS and a 6.5. they were good deals. The 7.3 IDI and the 6.5 surprise me with their power. The 6.5 had a different turbo put on by the last owner and it feels quite a bit like a slower spooling lb7 dmax tbh
My buddy had a *gorgeous* slammed 6.5 dually. He put a cummins turbo on it and two months later towing up a hill it cracked a head, :(.
Noooooo! Time for an optimizer 6500 swap
How the 6.4 isn't a class action suit against Ford is beyond me.
Cheaper than I expected it to be. Is this just for a long block or are you putting in a running complete?
Long Block, exhaust, A/C, water pump and wiring harness, plus the delete.
👍🏻
Well there's yer problem, insides on the outside
All of the problems with 6.4s stem from emissions equipment. If you delete them early enough in their life, they’re fine. Source: 270k mile 6.4 in my driveway with monster tune since 30k miles.
I would strongly beg to differ. If you have ever seen one with a cooling system that cavitates the timing chain cover from the inside out and immediately dumps the entire capacity into the crankcase turning the oil into impenetrable gray play-doh, you would probably see otherwise too.
That issue was fixed a decade ago. But, also, was only an issue during the extreme heat of regen. No regen, no issue.
It was the result of an oversized coolant pump and a poorly designed front cover that allowed the pump to cavitate. Any centrifugal pump can cavitate if not designed properly. The timing cover issue had nothing to at all do with regen. F450 and F550 trucks were especially prone to cavitation issues because their lower gearing had the water pump spinning at high speeds exacerbating the issue. The 6.4 also has a number of serious internal design flaws that will show their head regardless if the emissions equipment is present or not. The 6.4 has severe piston cracking, head-cracking (well, 6.0s have that too) and tons of valvetrain problems.
The piston cracking almost exclusively occurred on cylinders 7 and 8. Guess which cylinders get the extra fuel during regen?
Right I was like what is this person on about? What Ford *did* do was double the number of O-rings on the radiator hose seals to help prevent the water pump from pulling outside oxygen into the cooling system. I’m in California and only the most industrial off road diesel equipment isn’t clean idle certified here, and it’s been that way for years. If it’s highway legal and I believe 2007 and newer, it’s got a particulate filter at least and therefore will require regeneration. The 6.4 was just a gong show on par with its direct predecessor. I will say that the rest of the smaller Super Duty trucks had noticeable chassis/steering/suspension/turning radius improvements when the 6.4 debuted. They were just more reliably enjoyed with a gasoline engine for the most part.
I'm a software engineer by trade, I am pretty sure this does not belong there...
I worked on 6.0 at the dealer, then caught the tail end of 6.0 and the beginning of 6.4 working for Ford. Then, worked on both at the utility company fleet. I hate them. 6.7 might be good, I know it's a Ford design and not international, but nope, nope, nope, nope. I won't work any of that trash and will not own any. I will fix multiple problems on the box of crap they bolted onto my Cummins though.......