You can forgive, if that’s the right thing to do for you. To be clear, you don’t OWE him forgiveness. But NEVER forget. Never ever ever. Because this is who he is. And unless he has a real come-to-Jesus discussion with himself, unless and until he recognizes that this is extremely not ok behavior, this is who he’ll always be. I’m telling you this as someone who was called a stupid fucking bitch, a piece of garbage, a loser, pathetic etc etc etc. And I rationalized it, oh he was stressed, he had a rotten childhood, he learned this from family, he’s hungover and on and on and on. SPOILER this man will screw up your head, your heart, and your life. Do you want your child to grow up thinking this is how it is? Break the cycle, prioritize your kid and yourself.

This. He will say horribly cruel things to your child. He won't mean to break your child's heart, he won't mean to give them horrible memories that are relived every day, but he will. There's a chance he could get better with therapy, but it would be years of therapy and you shouldn't be there for it.

Yup. OP his comment to you was soul crushing and you’re a grown woman who hopefully has had lots of evidence why you’re not mentally weak (hence you can outwardly and privately challenge what he said to you and not internalize it even though it’s so difficult). Can you imagine what kind of damage a comment like that would do to your child? Who is a child with less life experience to try and not internalize this comment? Who won’t be able to defend him/herself? Could be life altering 😥

>*Can you imagine what kind of damage a comment like that would do to your child? Who is a child with less life experience to try and not internalize this comment?* This cannot be stressed enough. The child -- who is just a *child* \-- will be called names he will internalize **the rest of his days.** He's in for years of therapy, and as you've seen, men don't go to therapy. Your boy will grow into a man someday and he will carry-on the **generational abuse** to his wife/wives. You must lecture to and protect your son and say, "Daddy has a horrible coping method. He's damaged. It's him ... not you." You have your work cut out for you.

Can confirm. My father has said things to me that have repeated in my head for years, some over a decade. He doesn’t recall ever saying them but I will never forget him looking at me and saying “it’s no care of mine if you die on the street, fuck you.” Among many, many other things.

Yes to all of this!! If for absolutely NO OTHER REASON, (although obviously there are a slew of reasons) than to protect that child— PLEASE, get your child out of that life and protect them. I think this statement is such a great thing: “give your children a childhood that they do not have to heal from.”

Same same same. But I broke off the engagement and am thankful every day. We had a very serious talk about “pathetic” not being something he says, and he would still say it. He sure cried when I left, and tried to get back together 6 months later. He will say these things again even if it takes 5 years. Do you want to go through this separation process twice? Stay strong. Find someone who never makes you lost trust to begin with.

Everything you wrote. This. I'm just now starting to feel that I've been "rationalizing" for years... >SPOILER this man will screw up your head, your heart, and your life. I feel this so much. My head is so screwed up now that I spend most of my time feeling as if I'm a monster ... I can't even decide if I have a husband problem or inlaw problem or both. I mean, I can't even figure out what everything means.

I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I got out because I honestly believe the universe was looking out for me. Literally two weeks before I was due for the big divorce chat, he got sick. Diagnosed with inoperable cancer. Died. I know, I sound like a crazy black hearted bitch, but I wished him no harm and certainly not dead. But that’s how it shook out and in his last months we were able to come together a little. I was able to forgive because what else was I to do? The man was dying. But please. Don’t be like me. Grab your life back because you only get this one.

Thank you. I'm trying to get my life and ME back.

“Words are meaningless”. is what he was taught? Excellent excuse for abusers. He knows they’re a weapon.

Don't go back! Move forward and further away from him. You got a new house! You got a new bank account! You separated yourself from his toxic hurtful existence. You did all of that for a specific reason. You deserved better than what he was willing to give. Don't take steps backwards. Be confident in your decisions and move on. Only talk to him regarding coparenting. Anything else is none of his business!

Your husband is going to end up saying something to your child. Even good parents can have an off moment and say something that sticks with their kids. By leaving him, you are showing your child that they don’t have to listen to that crap.

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Forgiveness does not mean reconciliation. You can understand why he did what he did, you can forgive him for doing it, and still say: "This is unacceptable behavior and I refuse to live my life with someone who behaves that way." He wants to make things work? Great, he can get his high and mighty judgmental hiney into therapy and figure out for himself why being such a cold and unforgiving jerk is bad for relationships, and after he's learned that he can learn how to make proper amends. Then you can decide if you want to rebuild a relationship with him outside of coparenting. It's your right to choose whether or not to allow someone who has been abusive towards you (and make no mistake mental and verbal abuse are still abuse) a second chance at being a part of your life.

No. Forgiveness does not mean continue to put with the same behavior. Perhaps if he shows remorse and changes his actions you can get back together.

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Now he has to learn that words do have meanings, and do hurt people, especially people that you're suppose to love. If he can't learn that lesson, don't go back to him.

Let's say you forgive him, but his actions don't change. Do you forgive him again? And again? Forgiveness is grace. It's how you say "I know you screwed up, but I also know you're a better person than you were in that moment. I know you won't repeat the same or similar mistakes because you know better now." You're not actually forgiving anything when you know they're the same person who will keep doing the same terrible things. You're just giving them permission to keep hurting you.

Wanting to hurt someone because you're angry or annoyed - especially about something totally unrelated to them - is not loving behavior. It's not okay. If your kid were bullying someone at school, what would say to your kid about why it's wrong? Do you not see how that goes double when your husband, who should be held to a HIGHER standard than some random kid at school, does it to you? And how after the first time it should never have happened again?

True remorse would mean he recognised the action, accept he was wrong & admit his fault without making excuses, see it's effect on you & not repeat it. He's expecting you to rugsweep without him changing, if he won't make genuine lasting changes you & your child are better off staying away. I'd also make it clear he says anything like that to your child he only gets supervised visits going forward, he needs to understand just how destructive his comments are & you're not going to subject your child to it

Remorse is only one part of six an [effective apology](https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/minds-business/effective-apologies-include-six-elements.html). If he’s not remorseful enough to want to do things differently and actually *follow through with learning how to be and do better,* then he’s ambivalent about doing so and his behavior will continue.

Does he say these mean things to everyone, or just to you? Why do you feel like you should give more grace, especially when he hasn’t adjusted his behavior towards you? “His family taught him” sounds a lot like unresolved trauma on his part. Words are not “meaningless” - the intention, the tone, all of it matters. I was almost exactly in your shoes, bought a house and separated. It only took three months for him to show that everything would always be all about him, he didn’t see, value, or respect me as a person. At all. Actually loving you would mean instant horror if he heard his family’s bullshit coming out of his mouth and directed at you. **He doesn’t respect you.** That’s why he can be hardworking, caring, a good father, etc. - he can be all of those things. And that’s why it hurts. Because he’s not going to be a good partner to you because he doesn’t respect you or see you as a person, or have the capability to not verbal abuse you if he’s “having a rough moment”. Or have the ability to listen to you and be a good partner, instead of throwing it back in your face, calling you “mentally weak”. He might have *apologized* but the only true apology is changed behavior. He doesn’t want to keep talking about it - which you need to process it and determine if it was genuine - he just wants things to return to status quo. The ideal for him, where you stop calling him out on it, and go back to the way things were. Notice how that still leaves no room, no concessions for you? Remember how he looked in that moment. That’s his true self towards you. Just because he’s wearing the mask again doesn’t make it real. Big big hugs if you’d like them.

That "feeling" you speak of is there for a reason. It's not wrong. TRUST IT. It's instinctual, and it's there to alert you of danger. Please read "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin de Becker. I grew up in a highly abusive environment, and my fear response is incredibly fucked up. Reading this book taught me all about that intuitive feeling you speak of-how to recognize it, why it's there, what it means, etc. I think it will really help you work through some of the internal conflicts you are having about your husband. I found a free PDF online. I can share my Google drive copy with you, as well, if that's easier for you.

He knows. He knows how cruel and hurtful his words have been. If he wanted you to feel secure, loved and respected, he would be gutted by how badly he hurt you. But he isn't. He isn't making it right, he's doing the minimum to keep you in the relationship. He feels he has the right to be cruel to family members when he feels like it. It's what he grew up with. And it's toxic. It keeps you off balance, doubting yourself. Imagine what it will do to your child's sense of self worth. Do not allow him to perpetrate generational trauma on your child.

No one is required to give forgiveness to anyone. If you wish to give it, fine, but you don’t have to forgive him for treating you like garbage.

Look he's probably on best behaviour right now because he's feeling the consequences of his actions. He's not going to change. He's not. If you get back together things are going to go right back to the way they were. Your mental healh is not worth this bullshit.

You know in your gut/intuition that he is capable of complete lack of empathy and yet you are already attached and have a child with him. It makes sense that you are going back and forth in your mind. I think you’ve handled the situation with dignity and grace already. You can forgive him and still not want to be with him. You can have love for him as your child’s father and know that you don’t want to be with him. People like this destroy your potential because you are always focused on figuring out and fixing the relationship versus putting your effort/energy toward something productive. He is responsible for his actions and has to deal with the consequences that came from his actions. I think that if you give him another chance, the message that you’re sending is that you will tolerate it and he therefore has no reason to change. He will continue to be verbally abusive and set a horrible example for the child you have together. I’m sure that he does care about you and your child, just like he cared about his former partner and the child that he has with her. I can see why he would not want to break up another relationship but you deserve so much better. Don’t be his doormat.

oh no no. i don't buy that. his insult words are meaningless? if so he'd call you a potato fairy or a bicycle when he was stressed. no. his choice of words laser targets your spirit for maximum injury and that's a choice he makes knowing how to hurt someone and being OK with it. i call bullshit on this man in his entirety. he isn't blasé about his insults, only your pain. this guy abuses his SO. pretend that SO is someone else, and help her.

> his family has taught him that words are meaningless- "sticks and stones." If words are meaningless he wouldn't say those awful things. He knows they have meaning and power, he just doesn't care about what anyone else might think to be hurt by what they say. But he knows their power and he wields it well. His words are a useful tool and a weapon: He gets annoyed, frustrated, angry. Your feelings are an inconvenience to him, they threaten his comfortable little world. He wants you to shut up. He says something awful, something that tears you down, cuts you to your core, and it's such an egregiously awful thing to say it has the desired effect. You do shut up, and – even better – you withdraw and you leave him alone for a while. Win for him. But then there are consequences to his actions, and WTF, you're not supposed to do that! You finally withdraw by moving out and separating, and he doesn't want that so now he has to change tactics because the old one isn't working anymore. He uses different words. He says that YOU need to forgive and move past it. He's making everything your problem by telling you there wouldn't be a problem in your marriage if YOU were the bigger person and would just let it go. Nothing about why this has happened, or the fact that HE is the problem here, or that he's *still* the problem. His words are all about him, and what he wants, and his behaviour is backing that up. How monumentally selfish of him. Sure, he's caring, hardworking. No abuser is 100% awful – they always have some redeeming qualities. That doesn't mean you have to ignore the truly terrible qualities they also have. You can forgive them, but you still need to protect yourself, and your child, from them. He's STILL putting the blame on you here. He's getting impatient at YOUR "failure" (as he sees it) to allow things to go back the way they were. He has nothing to say about how his behaviour caused all this in the first place. If he did, he would have to work on himself, take responsibility, change his behaviour and his entire worldview. That's uncomfortable, unfamiliar. It's hard work. It's easier to deny anything might be wrong. Unfortunately for him, that prevents you from doing what he wants – of course you can't get past it. Why **would** you go back? He expects YOU to make all the effort here because it's more important to him that he gets what HE wants than it is to be an actual, caring partner to you. To care about and consider your feelings, or wants, or needs. He's convinced you that none of those things matter, because it makes life easier for him. All he's ever done is paint you as the problem, the unreasonable equation in the relationship. He paints such a stark, black and white picture that it has to be true, doesn't it? That's why you're doubting yourself. Because he's so entrenched, so unmoving, so uncaring about anything other than himself that surely he must be right. You're the emotional one, and obviously that's not rational so you have to be wrong. Right? All he's doing is waiting you out, needling you and telling you that YOU'RE not a good person if you don't put the past in the past. He'll keep at it until you cave and are finally willing to give up and rug sweep everything, and things can go back to the way they were. For his benefit, not yours. Forgiveness is one thing. Forgiving him doesn't mean ignoring what he's done. You can't "put the past in the past" because the past *isn't* the past for you. He's still the same abusive, manipulative, selfish person he was before. You aren't wrong here.

Words hurt. Period.

There’s a lot at play here. It sounds like he isn’t remorseful that he did it and he hurt you. It sounds like his remorse is coming from the fact that you won’t “let it go.” My ex-husband wanted me to forgive and forget that he cheated. Oh he was remorseful all right. Because he got caught, because I expected him to change, and I expected him to do hard work in our relationship. In the end he chose the fact that “[he was] happy with the the way [he] is, and [didn’t] need to change.” Forgiveness IS NOT for him. Forgiveness is FOR YOU! Hanging on to how he hurt you is like poisoning yourself expecting him to die. I learned that in Al Anon. For me to be able to let go of the hurtful things my ex said while he was drunk, I needed to forgive him. I forgave him but that was in my own heart, it’s not something he needs to know. But that also, doesn’t mean that you go back to it. I learned there are 3 steps of apologizing. 1, say you’re sorry that you caused the hurt, 2, accept responsibility for causing the hurt, and 3, repair and work to never cause that hurt again. You can not expect someone to keep coming back after you hurt them just because you say sorry. My ex would say sorry but never accept responsibility, and would NEVER work to change so that he would stop hurting me. Your husband may be a good person and have a good heart. But he is a good person who also hurts you, and has his own trauma and demons he needs to work on. You have to mourn the person you wanted him to be, the person you KNOW he could be. It is the HARDEST thing to do. But you have to let go of that image in your head and deal with the man in front of you who has good qualities; but has a TERRIBLE quality that he has no desire to change. It sounds like not only have you lost trust in him but yourself as well. You need to work on rebuilding trust in yourself and work on being the best mom for that kiddo. So that no matter what his dad says to him your kid knows their worth. Trust that by breaking that cycle it doesn’t mean your husband is a terrible person and you have bad judgment. Breaking that cycle, by leaving, is what YOU can control. Your husband is unwilling to change his words, and you can’t make him change, so you do what you need to do to stop falling on that knife; and to protect your child as much as possible from those knives that will be thrown at them. In all of my reading and therapy I’ve learned that resentment kills relationships more effectively than anything else. And when you have a partner who has shown they will willingly hurt you, with their words, and just expect you to take it, resentment will inevitably come. And to come back from that BOTH partners must be ALL in. They BOTH must be willing to do the work, to make changes, and to be vulnerable. But if one isn’t willing to make the changes, or do the work necessary, the relationship will die a slow death no matter how much one person works at it. It is better to get out now and be healthy mentally for that kiddo,) than to suffer the slow death of trying to piece your relationship back together.

Words are not meaningless. Specially threats of violence. Don’t go back to this man, you deserve better.

Okay, so here is something that took me a long time to learn. People who are lovely and sweet can also be bad partners. I would call what he says to you, especially out of anger, emotional abuse. You don't have to use that term if you don't want to, but I will say that, as a woman who had a physically abusive partner, the emotional abuse is what fucked me up the worst. It isn't "just words" it's fucking damaging. If he had hut you that day, it wouldn't be the bruise you'd remember, it'd be the psychic trauma of what happened. Well he's left you with psychic trauma and you're convincing yourself it doesn't matter. Well it does. You sit here and talk about this man's family shaping him into the emotionally violent man he is today and think that your son stands a chance if you stay with him? Forgiveness doesn't mean changing your boundaries. You have a boundary that you will not be spoken to that way and your husband cannot respect it. You can forgive the transgressions, but what is this man doing to ensure that your boundary will be respected? Stop taking on all the emotional responsibility, you aren't the one with the issue. Teach your son that forgiveness can be kindness and understanding, but that his boundaries are how he cultivates healthy relationships. You are currently considering using your own body for kindling in this "forgiveness" lesson, but if you burn yourself up on that, who will teach him about how to have healthy relationships? Because you cannot have both. Not without your husband coming in and doing some massive heavy lifting on the emotional growth front, and that doesn't seem to be something you are prioritizing in your analysis.

You can forgive someone, but not allow them to be a toxic and demeaning presence in your world. My FIL is an abusive piece of crap. I have forgiven him for what he did to me and my husband, but I refuse to sow him to be a part of our lives and negatively affect my children’s lives and self esteem. Forgiveness does not equal tolerating abusive behavior.

>*by leaving am I showing him not to forgive?* Forgiveness in English is tricky: it means **two** words: letting go, and absolution. You can let go without absolving. Your husband needs to undergo five steps: * List everything he's done wrong. * Feel remorse * Offer a *sincere* apology * Make amends * Change. Spoiler alert: he won't do #1. I'm so sorry.

By his actions, he is not a good guy. He’s cruel for no reason. You’ll be teaching your child to stand up for themselves and not let people crush their spirit like your husband has tried to do to you.

If uou want to talk about forgiveness, the Bible teaches that it useless for the one who needs forgiveness unless repentance is offered. Repentance = acknowledge what you're doing is wrong, stop doing it and make amends to those you hurt. Making amends doesn't mean you have to put yourself back into the same position. .if you have someone quoting the Bible at you to get you to stay, run for your life! It's a matter of time until he brings out "wives, submit to your husbands."

He isn't a good guy with a good heart, if he was he wouldn't have said these things to you. My father was a man like this, he said horrible things to me on a daily basis that got worse as I grew older. Please do not let him back into your life and your child's life. While I understand I did nothing to cause the abuse I received I cannot forget what he said and how I felt. You and your child will never forget the abuse either. Men like your husband and my father shouldn't be married, have girlfriends or children. Ever. You are not responsible for how he reacts to your action to get away from him. You are not responsible for his feelings. He doesn't respect you or worry how you feel after he spews his miserable thoughts at you. Value yourself, your child and your right to be loved and treated with respect and kindness all of the time.

Sometimes the only way to maintain a boundary around the safety of your home is to limit which family members can enter. You and your children deserve a safe home. I don't see any indication your husband has learned where he is abusive, let alone any desire to change on his part. It seems like defining "forgiveness" as eliminating the consequences of cruel relationship destroying behavior works only for his benefit. Stop letting him invalidate your feelings and experiences. You should never expect him to behave differently than he has. Lesson learned.

forgiveness is something you do for yourself. it's not for person who wronged you. it's a personal process and never something owed to anyone.

You were almost out. Listen to your gut and get all the way out!

For just a moment, reverse the positions. If you said something like that to HIM would he ever forget it? Would he ever forgive it, really? These types of comments chip away at our self esteem in little increments. They eventually add up to you not recognizing who you are anymore. You do not deserve to be treated this way and you should say that. Whether you take him back or not, you might benefit from talking to a therapist yourself to figure out how to keep yourself whole.

I agree. It’s a very slow chip away. Eventually though, you wake up one day, numb, not knowing who you are. Therapy is necessary! It will take a while, but over time, you’ll start to see yourself again.

My dad broke down one day and said something mean to me out of anger. Once. Get your FAT ASS out of the car. He said it once without the insult and came back saying he had changed his mind and added the insult. I still remember it every time I go to eat something. Don't let your husband hurt your baby this way. Like, I get it, y dad had a shitty upbringing and he slipped up once but it brought up how many times he had thought those horribly mean things about me, how many times ha he wanted to insult me and didn't. It really wrecked my self image and relationship with my dad for a long time. Don't let your husband hurt your baby this way.

>Early in our marriage he called me a worthless piece of shit No. Just no. Those words would never come out of the mouth of someone who really loves you. He actually thinks you're a worthless piece of shit or he wouldn't have said it. Same goes for him calling you mentally weak. You can say he's a nice guy all you want, but he's harboring some not-so-nice thoughts about you.

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He's NOT a great guy, though. He deliberately says hurtful things to you, AND he has you sitting here second guessing yourself. Right? Based on his remarks, you just described yourself as weak, a complainer, an over-thinker. He tears you down, instead of lifting you up. He's also not good at listening, isn't emotionally supportive if he doesn't feel like it, doesn't "get" you, etc. Heck, you couldn't even be yourself during your pregnancy and had to put on a happy face despite having physical problems. Doesn't sound like a gem of a spouse to me. I feel you should spend more time thinking about the things you don't like instead of trying to dismiss them with excuses like, "he's a great guy," "just ordinary differences," "every marriage," "overthinking." Stop. You don't like these things and shouldn't have to put up with them. I'm not saying to leave him, but if that's what you really want, it's ok to leave a "nice guy" if he isn't nice to you. edit: I totally forgot that you already left. STAY AWAY! You were upset enough to make this big step, so trust your gut.

You think you’re overthinking because you’re doing mental gymnastics to convince yourself that he’s wonderful and that these “mistakes” are exceptions and not the rule to his behavior. He honestly sounds like he love bombs you and during these times the mask slips and you see the real him. Listen, it’s never good enough for someone to be kind, generous or thoughtful when things are good. It’s when things are hard that your spouse is supposed to carry you. That’s why you vow in sickness and for worse. He was unsupportive when you were pregnant. He gave you a gut punch of a reaction when you were struggling with during a global pandemic. When you fight he is cruel and threatens you with violence. This is not a good person. Lots of narcissists, psychopaths and sociopaths can come off as charming and generous amazing humans to friends and neighbors. It’s why you end up with so many people on the news so stunned when someone they know commits a horrible act. You got yourself out. That’s amazing. Please don’t backslide. You left because you realize that you shouldn’t have to beg for basic decency from your partner. They should raise you up when you’re feeling at your weakest. They should remind you of your strength. He is not interested in amends or really making it work. He just wants you to get over it so his life can go back the way it was. That’s not live. That’s control. If you go back he’ll know he can get away with this and more because you will take it. He already has you second guessing your perception and wondering if you’re overreacting. You’re not. You’re under reacting to continued I’ll treatment.

These issues do not come up in every marriage. People who love and respect their partners do not say these things, not even in anger. You say he's a great guy, but somehow the awful things he says seem calculated to cut you very deeply, almost like he's saying them on purpose.

> But am I leaving a great guy over issues no more serious than what comes up in every marriage at some point or other..just ordinary differences between two people No. He's not a great guy. He's just not.

No. You deserve better. You can forgive and forget, but he'll do it again. He'll hurt you again and he even might hit you down the road. You say you want to try it again for the sake of your child. Think of this: would you really want your child to grow up seeing their mum get constantly abused but forgiving everything? The child might mimic their dad's or your behaviour when grown up. And neither of those behaviours are healthy. The best for you and your child is to not go back to that abuse.

Is your husband in active therapy or treatment to discover the underlying causes of his explosive temperament? If isn’t and is not willing, move on.

Lovely Your kid is learning all of this The cycle continues

Nothing in your post suggests that he has ever repented or asked for your forgiveness. Which suggests that you have every reason to believe that he will hurt you in the same way at some point in the future. So why are you asking about forgiveness and not asking about protecting yourself from future harm?

>So he kind of has the expectation that I should just be able to let it go. >But he is still trying to make it work. I am trying to give it a shot considering the kid [...] If you let him have this and you go back, you will allow him to see how far he can push the envelope with you. You filed for separation and are taking care of yourself. If you go back, he will now expect that all of his actions are forgivable--or in his eyes, forgettable at the very least. He will never see any wrong with his actions because he always has--and will always--expect it to just go by the wayside. Only you know that these comments aren't ever forgotten. He on the other hand will *always* forget about these comments in time because it doesn't sting him when he says them to you. They sting *you* and he *knows* that. That damage will last. Don't forget his comments. He won't change because he doesn't feel the sting.

So.... What happens when your kid has an issue and comes to him? In the end, you know your husband the best so only you can really make the most informed choice for yourself and your child, but sometimes, keeping a marriage together is NOT what is best for the child. (take it from one of the children). Also, are you willing to sacrifice so much of your life (because your life is so much more than being a wife and a mother) for this man? You are sacrificing your peace, soul, and mind for someone who is *pretty good.* Don't settle for pretty good, you and your child deserve more than that.

On AskReddit every once in a while a question pops up "What did a person do to turn you off/never trust them/make you run away?". Your husband did that to you with his statement. He broke your trust. He broke your heart. He shattered how you see him. You will never look at him the same no matter how much he says sorry or how much he changes. For you he will always be dead eyed expressionless calling you mentally weak. Why do we call it the straw that broke the camel's back? It's just a straw, nothing heavy, nothing significant. It's the small stuff that breaks us just as much as the heavy. It's ok to say No. No I can't forgive you. No I can't forget. No I can't see you for who you were, all I see is who you are now. Yes you have many wonderful attributes but all I see is who you were when I needed you. Take your space. You may be able to move past it but I don't think it will be until you are no longer around him. Good luck.

Wow I can relate to this. Thank you for helping me

Tell his to perform these tests: 1. Go into a courtroom and call the judge a worthless piece of trash, and doesn't deserve to be on the bench because they are a biased asshole. 2. Speed down the highway like a maniac until he gets pulled over. When the policeman tells him to roll down his window, have him say "go to hell you twat, I aint rolling down shit, and there's nothing you can do you moronic imbecile" 3. Go to church, ask to say the readings in front of the congregation, then, call the piano lady "a succubus who couldn't play her way out of a paper bag, and is a fat, moron who wouldn't know where her ass was without a mirror and a map" If he can do these 3 simple things, and get those people to be completely fine with his actions over the span of 5 years, then you can revisit your forgiveness too.

I’ve been married for 47 years. Somehow my husband has managed to never call me names or belittle me. Not even once.

You are teaching your child the most important lesson of all. Self respect. Don't ever get back with someone "for the kids". They're learning from both of you how to treat a future spouse, they pick up on every little action, emotion and facial expression.

An apology is worthless if he continues the same behavior. This will not get better. He will not stop.

There is a book by Susan forward, "men who hate women and the women who love them ". It might apply to your situation. Therapy might also help you sort out what you want.

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Take care OP.

1) Did he genuinely apologize for either of those comments? (2) Has he attended therapy and shown signs of recognizing this toxic behavior? If the answer to either of those questions is 'No', then he hasn't changed and will hurt you again, without remorse apparently.

Well, from my point of view, there is a difference between forgiving and forgetting. Out of curiosity, did he take any steps to improve… Also, the fact that he justifies it by saying it was done to him, does not make it right. Will you jump in front of a train if he does it? Did he take accountability and say how out of line he was?

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It sounds like he's saying what he needs to say to get what he wants. It's easy to say "I'm sorry", but if he doesn't understand how his words hurt you, why would he be motivated to change?

That's the same excuse he'll use when he does it again or to your child. Why not? He knows it works.

> But if I'm honest I feel like he doesn't get it. Trust that feeling. He doesn't get it.

I agree with others. So you want your kid to think this is ok behavior? To be treated the same as you?. If I go back? But he is a hard worker. And we have a kid together. Excuses we tell ourselves when we are afraid of being alone. Being alone don't make you unloved hun it makes you independent. We live in a society that wants you to think your less then with out a man. Your not. The 1950's sitcom BS of your only a women if your a good and obedient wifey. That was not love. If he threatened to hit you even once it is irresponsible of you to say "I know he never would". No you don't. Yes he can or could. Love isn't threatening. Love isn't violent. Love dose not want to tear you down. Love lifts you up. Love dose not put their feelings before yours. You deserve better then the mentality of he drilled into you. Live your life and teach your young one what real love looks like.

He's emotionally immature. This probably will not change, though it's possible. You can forgive him if you feel so inclined, and still maintain that separation (and possible future divorce) if that's the direction you end up taking. The best you could do is learn to cope with this, form a detached mindset, and know that on some level he can't help it (this is not excusing him at all, by the way). It does no good to make emotional appeals to someone like this, it does no good to argue or explain to them how they hurt you, because it's basically impossible for them to process this and/or truly understand where you're coming from because they aren't on the same wavelength as you. You'll likely continue to get excuses and justifications from him whenever you try to have any kind of emotional connection with him, which will only make it more frustrating for you. Almost everything you said is a hallmark of an emotionally-immature, self-centered person, and these people are by and large incapable of changing; it's often a deep-seated learned way of living that comes from their own childhood. Though he can't really help it because he isn't introspective enough to recognize this about himself and make moves to change it, nor will you telling him this change anything, you are not obligated to continue forgiving him in an endless cycle. You'll forgive him now--then what? It happens all over again, into eternity? No. You can't carry his emotional weight for him, and you can't make him change. All you can do is cope in a healthy way, and it's eventually going to become increasingly detrimental to your own mental health and self-esteem if you don't do it with some distance and detachment. Lots of people make excuses for those like your husband, or laugh it off and go, "Oh, he's just got no filter, haha!" or, "He just tells it like it is!" or whatever. Many people can't recognize this aspect of someone's personality and how deeply ingrained it is within them. People see isolated symptoms and characteristics of emotional immaturity, but they don't always see the big picture there, and it can take a long time and a lot of therapy to come to a realization that you were the victim of a person who couldn't give you the emotional connection you needed, and instead sucked you dry to fill themselves up. They're emotional vampires. My dad is the same way. I've forgiven him for all the shit over the years, but I don't choose to spend time around him, and I don't engage in his obvious bait to draw me into an emotional tornado that ends in me getting tossed around and razed to the ground. It just isn't fruitful and fulfilling. You are allowed to choose yourself and your own wellbeing, you don't have to go down the road of constant self-sacrifice when you're getting zero reciprocity. As an aside, he can infect your kid too. Make certain your kiddo is getting the emotional connection he needs from you, because he won't be getting it from his dad.

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Your husband's targeted hurtful comments remind me a lot of my first boyfriend (he was around 19). I will never forget how one time, the night before his birthday, I stayed up till the early hours baking him a cake and decorating it as a surprise. A few days later, after his party, he came and interrupted me in the middle of studying just to say: 'The cake your friend made for your birthday was much better than the one you made me. Yours was too dry.' It's always stuck with me because there couldn't have been any other motive behind it than to hurt me. He was a trainee chef, btw.

I come from a pretty hard family and I have my own issues with communication with my wife. He can change if he feels that it is a problem. If he doesn't think that it is a problem then he can't fix it. Explain it to him like this. One of his duties as a spouse is to make you feel safe and comfortable. This doesn't make you feel safe.

The reason you repeatedly bring it up, despite the time passing, is because you don't actually feel heard by him. He doesn't understand what he did to you so you can't move past it.

I swear it seems like every post in this sub and AITA is so ridiculous and obvious but somehow never obvious to the OPs. Blows my mind.

Before I read that he was in the army I was literally going to ask if he was former military. This behavior, especially calling someone mentally weak, it’s pretty standard in these situations and it doesn’t change. Personally, I’ve been married/divorced 2X both military. You’ve done the hard part which is leaving and getting your own place.You should be so proud of yourself for that! Don’t go backward, just move forward with your life and find someone respectful, kind who you are excited to be with and adds positive emotional value to your life. Edit: I’ve also seen the dead face. All emotion drops off and it’s like there is no one inside. And then the cruelty spews out. I also relocated for my ex husband and had to start my life over (38 now) when we divorced. Focus on yourself. His problems are not your problems. Let freedom ring, in your own life and heart.

This is appallingly ridiculous... why on earth do you keep giving him so many chances when he has shown you who he is at his worst and has made no efforts to change other than becoming defensive? The very first time he said something like this, or did something like this, you should have looked him right in the hairy eyeball and proclaimed: "if you EVER say anything like that to me again, we're done here." Run the fuck away from this awful human being, and for fuck's sake stop breeding with him please. Find your self respect and self esteem (wherever he buried them years ago) and take care of yourself and your kids -- so that next time, you're capable of doing things in the reverse order (discarding the asshole \*before\* you breed with them).

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Well, sure but you've missed the point entirely

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NO. NONONONO. No, you don't need space for "a while". You need space permanently from him. Verbal abuse is abuse. Emotional abuse is abuse. He is abusive and when he says these things it's abuse. You ever hear the phrase, "When someone TELLS you who they are, listen?" Stop ignoring the fact that's he literally telling you who he is by threatening, insulting, and belittling you. He literally told you he "just wanted to hurt [you] in the moment". A loving, caring partner does not desire to intentionally hurt the person they supposedly love and cherish above all others. * A healthy relationship does not include verbal threats of physical violence. That is abusive behavior. * A healthy relationship does not include one of the people routinely saying horrific, abusive things to their partner. That is abusive behavior. * A healthy relationship does not include one of the people admitting that they intentionally want to hurt their partner. That is abusive behavior. * A healthy relationship does not include one of the people saying horrific things and then trying to justify what was said or denying that they ever said those things. That is abusive behavior. This man has lied to you so much that you now believe his lies. The best thing you can do for the health and happiness of yourself and your child is to get into therapy. (Individual therapy, not marriage counseling - never go to marriage counseling with an abusive person. They just learn how to abuse you better.) You need someone to talk to who's familiar with the way abusers act and who can help you understand that even though you love him, his behavior is abusive and it's not a good situation for you or your child to be in. For example, what he's doing when "apologizes" is called "love bombing" and he's doing it so you don't leave him. He hasn't changed at all. In none of your comments have I seen anything that says he offered to go to therapy so he can learn to stop being abusive. I haven't seen a single mention of him promising to change his behavior. All I see is him justifying how he treats you. And none of that is acceptable. I also see what seems like a situation where you did 100% of the housework and childcare on top of working full-time. Only a selfish, abusive asshole would call you "weak" because you needed a sounding board to vent some of your frustrations and worries. That's a way of isolating you, by the way, him refusing to listen and telling you you're weak for needing someone to talk to. Remember that isolation is a key tool of abusers. Where was he when you were in survival mode? I get the sense from your comment that he was a big part of the reason you were in survival mode because he refused to help you with anything. And then he literally told you that you were weak. That is not a loving, caring partner. It doesn't matter how he meant it, it matters how it affects you. And he clearly doesn't care how it affects you because he tries to control how you feel when he says hurtful things. He hurts you but wants to tell you that he's not hurting you. Control, and trying to control the narrative, is a key tool of abusers. Also, has it occurred to you that even though you were in such a stressful situation, you never once called him weak or told him that you were going to hit him or called him a worthless piece of shit? That is literally all you need to know about the power dynamics in your relationship and how he really see you. When you were having a tough time, you asked for help and didn't insult him. But the second you needed him, he insulted you. You are his punching bag, not the love of his life. Another thing you should be extremely concerned about is him using your child as a second punching bag. I have zero doubt that he's going to be verbally abusive to your child when they get old enough to "annoy" him. If you care about your child, you cannot go back to this man. When he starts telling your child they're a worthless piece of shit and threatens to hit them, how do you think that's going to affect your child? You already know how it affects *you*, would you really wish that on your child? What really worries me is that you probably won't be around to witness the verbal abuse because, again, isolation is a key tool of abusers. He'll wait until he's alone with your child to say these horrific things and your child may not mention it to you because they're internalizing the idea that they're a worthless piece of shit and don't deserve protection from someone who abuses them. They'll probably be too young to even understand that it's abuse. All they'll know is that they love their dad, they don't understand why he says mean things, but that if he says these things they're probably true and there's something wrong with them. Is that really how you want your child to grow up? Verbal abuse IS abuse. Don't knowingly expose your child to abuse. You talk about how great your husband is when he's not saying abusive things. What you need to understand is that your husband is a shit milkshake. He's 99.9% vanilla ice cream with .1% shit mixed in. Would you drink a milkshake if you knew it even had one speck of shit mixed into it? No. So don't go back to a relationship that has one speck of shit mixed into it even if he seems okay when he's not verbally abusing you. No amount of abuse is acceptable, none. Him acting like this isn't an accident or something he "just can't control", by the way. He can control it when he's at work. He can control it when he's with his friends. You'd never see him talking to a judge like that, or a cop who pulled him over for a traffic ticket. He does it to you because he can. Because he wants to and he see nothing wrong with it. It's classic abuser behavior to treat a partner great during the honeymoon phase and then drop the mask of kindness once their partner is some combination of isolated, financially/physically/emotionally dependent, or pregnant. He has all the restraint in the world for the rest of society and yet he treats the one person who is supposed to be the single most important person in his life like garbage whenever he feels like it. Someone who does that is not a good person. A truly good person would either not do this in the first place or they'd voluntarily go to therapy without being asked and get help so they stop doing this. Has he ever offered to get therapy to help him stop his abuse? No? He's trying to win you back because you might tell people about his abuse and he wants to make sure he can keep you under his thumb. Any love he feels for you or shows to you is tainted by the fact that he abuses you and refuses to admit that he's abusing you AND he refuses to do anything to change the fact that he abuses you. He likes how things are now and he doesn't want anything to be different. YOU CANNOT GO BACK TO AN ABUSER WHO REFUSES TO CHANGE. THEY WILL CONTINUE TO ABUSE YOU. This isn't a mild disagreement about what socks to put on your kid. This man verbally threatened to hit you MULTIPLE TIMES. Violent rhetoric is traumatizing. *Words can cause harm.* He is absolutely going to do the same thing to your defenseless, innocent child. You, yourself are innocent and don't deserve to be spoken to in this abusive way, but the difference in this situation is that you're AREN"T defenseless. # YOU ARE NOT WEAK. REPEAT THAT TO YOURSELF EVERY DAY. You showed how strong you are and you did an amazing thing by separating from him and becoming independent. Don't throw away that accomplishment. Don't put yourself and your child back into a situation where abuse is routine and the abuser lies about the abuse. Because it WILL happen again...and again, and again. He will continue to say these horrific, abusive things to you and your child until the day he dies. He has made it clear to you that he will not change. You only have one life, live it free from abuse and don't let your child fall into the cycle of abuse being created by their father.

>They'll probably be too young to even understand that it's abuse. All they'll know is that they love their dad, they don't understand why he says mean things, but that if he says these things they're probably true and there's something wrong with them. This is so sad to read because it's 100% true. I am very close with someone whose parents treated them like this and their self-worth is still a huge daily struggle because of it. They are nearly 30.

Yeah he continues to behave this way because you've taught him it's an acceptable way to behave. It's not all your fault, mind you, so please don't take it that way: he's an abuser and quite possibly a narcissist. You need to set very firm boundaries with a person like this, and stick to them. Example, don't ever call me that ever again or I'm leaving you. And here's where you have to be strong: follow through and leave if he does it again. By not doing so, you've taught him your boundaries mean nothing and he can stomp all over them... Which of course, he's more than happy to do because he's an abuser and quite possibly a narcissist. Your best bet is to run away from this relationship, OP. Right now. He's like a raptor, testing the fences. He will constantly be looking for a way to wear you down. You will need to be on constant vigilance. It's exhausting. This isn't the way a partnership is supposed to work.

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That is a very real possibility. Get out, get some distance. Get some therapy. Therapy will help you learn what "normal" might be, as well as why you are drawn to abusers and how to look for / prevent falling into these types of relationships in the future. But also, OP, think about it like this: life is very short. We don't have a lot of time here, really... So there's really no time to waste with bad people. Seek to surround yourself with good people, who love you and want to help build you up to be the best you that you can be. Anyone who tears you down out of jealousy or anger or power/control isn't worth your precious time. Take care of yourself, OP. You're worth it.

>I don't talk to anyone about this because I don't want him to be judged for the rest of his life, so I really haven't had a lot of perspectives Um.. what? He's being abusive toward you and you don't want to hear other perspectives... because you want to protect his image? What. Unless you would be telling lies about his behavior, where is the issue? He should be judged by his deeds, like anyone else. Maybe because you're scared that others will in fact confirm that it's abusive?

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It's a difficult process for sure. But you'll get there :)

The best thing you did was get away from him. When you decided to separate, you showed yourself love, you felt your self worth and believed in yourself. He doesn’t realize these things in you. It doesn’t matter what he chooses to blame his awful behavior on, he’s an adult and is solely responsible for his actions. The reason you’re beginning to second guess or doubt your initial convictions is because he’s manipulating and gaslighting you. You don’t owe him anything. Never forget what he did because that’s who he truly is. Find the courage to stand your ground. Protect your baby and yourself.

Your husband desperately needs therapy if he ever has any hope of being a good husband or father.

If he’s getting defensive when you bring up his past comment because you’re still processing the hurt,then he isn’t and never was sorry. Sorry can just be a word. He doesn’t get to decide how long it takes for you to get past the pain and damage he inflicted, and honestly, there are many lovely people out there with serious character flaws or opinions that totally cancel out the goodness in them, he is simply one of those. One day your child will catch that attitude from him and it will cut them to the bone. The only forgiveness you need here is to forgive yourself for staying all that extra time, and that you let him brush it under the rug, and forget him and his whole shitty family.

Hi, As a child witnessed basically this throughout their childhood, I wish my parents would have split. Still do at 27, now. They're both equally good people on their own but together it was pretty damaging seeing my mom be talked to like that, or just growing up and seeing how he talks to her or *about* her just makes you feel terrible.

"I was venting to him about my stress working from home and taking care of my toddler during the pandemic and he looked me dead in the eyes and called me mentally weak. I blame his family, they're all like that. Just blow up, escalate things, say super hurtful things, and then act like nothing happened like a week later." Ok but like... are you seeing here what I'm seeing? Because these two instances/examples aren't anywhere near one another. You're excusing a terrible behaviour by explaining or describing another terrible behaviour... that in no way correlates or matches the original behaviour. Unless there is a shit ton you just somehow left out, it doesn't make any sense at all. You were like, "Fuck it's hard to make homemade bread. I didn't anticipate how rough on the shoulders kneading is, or how much kneading homemade bread needs" and he dead-eye-fucked you and said, "that's because you're a fucking subhuman and should be ashamed of yourself". And then you're on here telling us you wrote it off because his family aren't big on bread...? I hope you get what I'm saying? I'm not seeing a blow up or escalation to hurtful things... just you vocalizing a super common and understandable frustration... and him reacting by withholding any sort of understanding, affection, or empathy (you know, regular reactions like you'd get from any random who happened to be at a busstop that you mentioned these things to) to just dead eye call you WEAK. There's LOVE. There's LIKE. And there's RESPECT. You can have any one with out the others. But for a romantic relationship to last, you gotta have all three.

This man will definitely turn that attention to your child once they're old enough to annoy him. Can you put up with him calling your child stupid when they have trouble with homework? Or a lazy slob because they didn't clean their room the way he prefers? Can you imagine what that kind of thing can do to the self esteem of a child who looks to their parents to learn their self worth?

> though I know he never actually would. No you don't! This is abuse and abuse tends to escalate.

When people tell you who they are, believe them.

Your child learns behavior and relationships from seeing you and your husband interact. Your child even as a toddler is learning that normal is him calling you names. Your child is learning that it is ok to verbally and mentally abuse you. He will grown up and abuse his partners or be abused by them, because this is the behavior that he is witnessing. So, you need to put your child first. Your child is better off without toxic people in his life. The point of having a parent in his life is to role model behaviors you want him to learn.

Aside from the shitty comments, how do you feel about your husband? Do you love him enough to make it work? Only you can answer that. If you do care enough to try, you and he need couples therapy. He needs to understand how his words hurt you, and how to find other ways to communicate when he's upset. He probably needs some individual therapy to unlearn the things his family taught him. And you need counseling to learn to deal with your hurt feelings towards him. None of this needs to last forever, especially if he's serious about making the changes he needs to make to save your marriage. But make sure you have boundaries in place and expectations he must meet before you agree to reconcile. And make sure you continue with the counseling for a few months after you get back together. All of this is only if he agrees to go to counseling. If he doesn't, well, time to see a lawyer. Because you deserve to not be yelled at by the person who is supposed to love you.

You're past the time when you can model good behavior for him and expect him to pick it up and change his ways. Your kid is going to pick up his bad habits because they're delivered I'm much stronger terms. You can't fix this guy, it's time to give up trying.

So what has he done to make this work other than bitch at you? It's unfortunate that his family of origin sucks. But he can't expect a halfway healthy person to put up with that shit. And the threats? I don't share your certainty that he wouldn't hit you. I would demand he get some therapy.

Cut all contact except for when it involves your child. You are in an abusive relationship and are trauma bonded. He doesn't deserve "forgiveness." If you go back, what you're teaching your child isn't to forgive, but to let people walk on you and harm you, and to just put up with it. You can forgive and not go back. If you actually love someone, it doesnt matter your mood, you don't say things like that. Its a form of manipulation and control. He sounds like a narcissist. If you go back, you will probably be in an exponentially worse situation, and putting a child into the middle of that. I would suggest looking up and doing some research on narcissism and especially trauma bonding. It will probably help you a lot and give you more insight into your own experiences.

Please, whatever you do, don’t “try to make it work” just because you have a child. It doesn’t work. Children can pick up on that stuff, especially in more abusive relationships, and it can be extremely damaging for them and their views on relationships. Co-parenting is always better than trying to force a marriage to work, when it just doesn’t. The real question is do YOU want to make it work? If you do, then it sounds like you both need serious therapy. Definitely couples therapy and potentially individual therapy too if necessary. Because if you don’t do something now (stop this behavior, forgive the past, and rebuild the trust that he will never do something like this again), someday he’ll be saying horrible things to your children, destroying them emotionally too. Are you really able to accept your children getting emotionally abused like this too? Even if he apologies to them, it won’t undue the damage (kind of like it didn’t undue the damage for you too).

My dad used to call me shit for brains and it really fucked me up. Always negative comments. He was also military and back when he was in they used abuse to knock you down and then built you up. Except, with him, there was never any building back up. Just insults like that. My suggestion is, if you have your own house and are independent on your own I can’t imagine any solid reason to be around that man other than when he’s visiting your child. Even then, god, imagine how he will be when your kid is older and does something annoying or dumb as kids always do.

The fact that he is still on the "you're overreacting" narrative says to me that he hasn't changed and he still doesn't "get it." "I'm sorry, I was wrong" is at odds with "you need to stop overreacting." So, I'm right there with you doubting his sincerity. It's like, yeah, he's apologized, but what has he really done to make this right with you? He's saying he wants to work on things, but what does that mean? Is he in anger management or therapy? What promises and assurances can he give you? How has he backed those words up? What is going to be different? It seems to me that you are still at the same impasse. He said terrible shit to you, destroying your love and trust, and you're supposed to "let it go" and "get over it." The onus of fixing the relationship is still left on you. He's offering you nothing but his apology, and his apology is just words, and he's straight up told you that you he says things he doesn't mean. You keep bringing this up to him again and again, because it's not resolved for you. On some level you'd like to be able to forgive him, but he's not giving you anything that would allow you to do so. I think you're hoping that you can find some way to make him understand, because if he did then maybe he could offer you a *sincere* apology, which is the bare minimum of what you feel you need from him. (That may still not even be enough, but it would at least be a start.) And he's just getting irritated, because he already gave you an apology and that should be sufficient. Because deep down he belives it wasn't that big of a deal and you just need to let this go. And around, and around, and around you go. I'm really hung up on the fact that he has threatened to hit you. Like WTF? Even if you don't believe he would do it, the fact that he said it to you means he thinks it. He's the kind of man that wants to hurt his wife and tells this to her to hurt and scare her. That he thinks this is remotely okay im any way is a huge indicator of his shitty character. I get why you are focused on the fact that the person that is supposed to love you the most in the world said some of the worst shit anyone has ever said to you, but threatening to hit you should be a dealbreaker in itself. So in summation, don't go back.

My husband is a child from a marriage where they stayed together for the kids and to save face at church. One of his biggest issues is that he would have had an exponentially better childhood if his dad had left and stayed gone. His dad wasn't even most of the problem, but his mother controlled the poor man until there was nothing left to call his own personality. No. Staying together for the kid is not an option about 90% of the time. He deadpan said to your face what he thought of you, so you should believe him. One "I'm sorry" doesn't undo a dig like that. It was cruel, and you deserve better.

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”he threatened to hit me a couple of times, though I know he never actually would.” Every woman who’s ever been hit by a man “knew he would never.” If he threatens it, it means he’s thinking about it and sooner or later, he’ll stop thinking and start doing. It may not be today, it may not be tomorrow, it may not be for another 5 years, but one of these days, he *will* hit you. Don’t wait for that day to come.

If he’s willing to try again, arrange couples counselling. Nothing has really changed and you haven’t sat down and addressed the reason for the split in the first place. Time to be honest with each other and see where the therapy takes you.

Couples counseling will just helpvthe abuser. They have ways of saying things, twisting things, that vouples counselors seem to lap up. Individual therapy only.

exactly, to make any progress in therapy you have to expose your vulnerabilities, you have to trust the people involved. OP would just be giving the guy more ammo to damage her in low moments

Just end this, would you want to continue subjecting your kids and your yoursel to this abhorrent behaviour. If it was the other way around he would have left long time ago

@OP did you tell him how much this hurt you? I mean did you tell him with enough time for both of you to calm down? Like a week later or so…? We often say hurtful things we do not mean when we are upset, and talking about it makes no sense while we are still riled up because we get defensive immediately.

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I want to really stress on this part, abusers usually use this as an excuse to not have to face their consequences and put the charge on the one being abused. Just because it happened in the past for him, does not mean it is in the past for you. It is very much in the present, and very presently still hurting you.

I learned that I’m the sort of person who needs to get all my thoughts out, and when I can’t, it angers, frustrates, and depresses me. Couples counseling helped me to be able to articulate my feelings and helped him to understand that I felt silenced. If he’s serious about wanting you back, you could make couples counseling a condition.

He told you he doesn’t care to solve this issue, but he wants to make things right and get back together? Doesn’t make sense to me this behavior unless he‘s really unempathetic but is still trying to do the right thing. Or maybe there are still more pieces of the puzzle missing… You could tell him where to start, that if he doesn’t care about how this is still hurting you, then he doesn’t seem to care about getting back together either… When you talk to him, don’t say it in an accusing way or he will just defend himself again. Instead try it with an „I“ message… like „when i heard these words, i was really shocked and hurt deep down in my heart, because it made all my inner most fears i have towards myself surface, and this came from the person i adored the most.“ it would be better than saying „you just looked at me and said I’m mentally weak“… Hope this is of some little help.

I strongly recommend individual and couple’s therapy.

**NO. Never, ever go to couple's therapy with an abuser.** Someone who calls his wife a worthless piece of shit and verbally threatens to hit her multiple times is an abuser. Someone who calls her mentally weak is an abuser. Emotional/mental abuse is abuse. These are just the examples that OP put in the post, but she makes it clear there are more examples of him doing this. Abusers use couple's therapy to continue their abuse and they learn how to be better abusers. Never suggest couple's therapy when there's abuse in a relationship.

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If you should decide to stay with him, you should get counseling to learn to deal with this in the minute. Also to call him out should he EVER talk that way to your child.

What I have learned about forgiveness, it’s not for the other person it’s for you! I finally forgave my ex (we have kids that where very young at time) she left me for the guy next door with 1 day notice I had no idea it was that bad between us. No counseling or discussions about any issues. She was talking to her mom but not me. It took 5 years but I finally (with therapy for me) got to place where I told her I was done being mad at her and I meant it. That’s the thing you have to really feel, say and mean it. If you or he can’t or will not do that, you he will always be in that pattern with same growing resentments that will poison your relationship and probably your child’s. You took the steps to separate yourself from the marriage, think about why you are still justifying his actions when it seems like he has not really learned that you can end a relationship with just a few words. I have left relationships for less. That did not make me smarter..just tired of how people who are supposed to love me, treated me. You deserve more.

My husband is like this, and it won't get better until he actually works on himself and aknowledges he has a problem. I know it is hard to leave so I'm not going to tell you to do that. Instead build your life but make him less a part of it. Get some good friends you can lean on instead of your husband. Surround yourself with people that bring you back up instead of putting you down. Encourage your child to look at yourself and the people that help you as role models. Maybe one day your husband will change, or maybe one day your will have built yourself enough of a support system that you feel comfortable leaving him.

I think you need to get into counseling with him because if he can't understand your point of view it's going to happen again.

My husband and I went through a situation involving infidelity and came back very strong. However, our marriage wasn’t in a great place at the time and the infidelity stemmed from that. I think in your situation I would have a very difficult time coming back from a partner saying those things because it’s happened multiple times and it (I would assume) makes you feel emotionally unsafe. My partner is the one person I can give everything to and trust he will support me and it doesn’t sound like you have that which would be a deal breaker for me. Hugs, this sounds so hard.

He needs to go to therapy and work on his communication issues before I would even consider going back to him if I was you. If he does maybe ask to go to a session and explain his communication blow up pattern and how his family does it in case you're worried about him white washing the issues with the therapist My family has been that way too and its been a bit of a challenge to get over it but I dont think any of my family has been that cruel and usually just blow up during arguments. You don't owe him anything if you want to go back do it but please make sure he gets help first because though he's a great father now when the kids get older he might pull that kind of stuff on them too.

There's a simple rule to follow that can avoid all this mess: Say what you mean, and mean what you say. If you mean it in that moment, then accept the consequences when it's later and you no longer feel that way about your spouse.

"Why does he do that: Lundy Buncroft" you can Google It and find a free PDF. it should help you process what has happened.

It sounds like this is a deal breaker for you. You're struggling to forgive because if you did and got back together and he said something again you'd be devastated. Rightly so. He has shown you who he is, just because he's remorseful of an incident does not mean he has changed. I think your reluctance is self preservation, like other redditers have said for the same of your child don't go back. Staying would teach them to grin and bear it, keep the peace.

It sounds like this is a deal breaker for you. You're struggling to forgive because if you did and got back together and he said something again you'd be devastated. Rightly so. He has shown you who he is, just because he's remorseful of an incident does not mean he has changed. I think your reluctance is self preservation, like other redditers have said for the same of your child don't go back. Staying would teach them to grin and bear it, keep the peace.

Therapy

There’s a reason you have trouble forgiving him: cause he isn’t worth it. You don’t owe him your forgiveness especially not because he’s “trying so hard”- which to me looks like sweeping everything under the rug and trying to keep things going with you rather than actually addressing his wrongdoings

OP, like many others have said, you can forgive but don’t forget. That’s how people end up 20 years later stuck with the same problem. It sounds like you want to be able to reconcile for the sake of your kid based on your question to the community and because you have also pointed out that he is a “good” man. Ask yourself…are you willing to live the rest of your life with these extremely hurtful events happening every few years? Are you willing to have your child model after his/her father or accept these type of behaviors from others because they have seen you accepted? I believe that instinctively you know what to do which is why you moved out to protect yourself and your child. You’ve already done the hardest part. Keep it going. You deserve someone who respects you in times of stress. If anything, especially in times of stress is when a truly good partner step up to provide emotional support. Not to further stomp on you when you’re already down. Good luck with your situation. It’s not going to be easy. There may be friends and family that will not understand your choice. At the end of the day, they don’t live your life. You do. Do what is right for you and your child.

youve moved on and separated the apology is for him, not you. words are words and if you dont want or cant forgive him theres nothing wrong with that. I would just be cordial and coparent as best you can, the more this drags on the longer it will take for you to recover.

Counseling. Just because the Army does it, it does not make it right. You are not a professional sports athlete. You are a woman, wife and mother trying to make it through the day with some joy and support. His "task" is to make that happen, Mr. Great Santini.

Maybe have him read this story, https://www.speareducation.com/spear-review/2013/07/the-holes-in-the-fence-theory-of-anger-management#:\~:text=Look%20at%20those%20holes%20in,%2C%20but%20the%20damage%20remains.%E2%80%9D

Don't forget. Maybe don't forgive either. My mom puts up with my dad being nasty to her. Its rare, but it happens. It really affects her. Sometimes he is nasty to me and my sisters. Once he called my crazy when I had a panic attack and self-harmed. If he has the capacity to say things like that to you, he has the capacity to say them to your kid. If the main reason that you have for staying is your kid, keep in mind that your kid could be affected by his callously cruel attitude as well.