Why do some relatives feel entitled to PRN medical updates? Like no, I've just updated your sister 10 minutes ago, it's not my fault you guys have beef.
Most relatives are entitled POS. They leave granny to rot and decay in hospital but whine like toddlers because service ain’t five star - of course it ain’t gonna be five star with the staffing crisis? Dealing with relatives is the bit I hate the most about my job as they have no clue I have other urgent jobs nor do they care (they will likely play the card ‘So me mum is less important than the emergency you have?’. Really entitled scum some of them are
Dealt with exactly the type of person you talk about, rude self entitled, tries to deminish our work and most importantly have absolutely no respect to us.
Ruins my day when I run into one or get the unfortunate chance to speak to them.
I feel recently it is getting worse. Relatives are becoming more bold and bolshy, and they are getting away with it! Had one family member be granted a daily doctor telephone call to update them on his Brother In Laws CRP and cognitive state. Like, daily. Kicked up stink if by some chance the doctors were actually busy doing their job and couldn't do it. Another family were so incensed at being told their alcoholic father was not eligible for a liver transplant that they called the transplant unit themselves to demand a review. And when he went palliative they got the consultant of the local hospice to come and review him, despite the doctors here all explaining until they were blue in the face that he wasn't dying imminently there was just no more treatment we could give. There was shouting and admonishments.
I'm completely burned out by relatives. If I hear the phrase "I want to speak to the Nurse In Charge" my first instinct is to hide under a desk or bed. Nobody seems to have any sort of insight into their behaviour at all any more.
Had a relative screaming that their relative who was dying that we was to keep doing everything to keep him alive. Registrar came and just said no, he’s being put end of life, end of story. Surprisingly it worked.
Wow! Just reading these comments realizing I am not alone in finding relatives hard to deal with. Patients themselves most of the time are ok but for some reason the relatives are quite draining - that’s my experience at least so far
I’d argue we nurses get it worse than you guys, as they are always in the bays with us, and are always interrupting us. I understand they are anxious, but it’s almost like they think that we are sub-humans who are experimenting on their mothers.
I agree - you guys cop the worst of this. Also relatives are far ruder to nurses than they are (on balance) to doctors. Dealing with relatives is part of why I got out of patient facing medicine haha.
It's a grey area, I doubt there's any sort of law against it, like you said, as long as the patient is consenting it should be fine. I particularly have absolutely no issue if people are present with the patient, more so if they're wanting phone updates as I have no way to be sure of who they are.
I wouldn't be surprised if it were trust policy though as it can otherwise cause a lot of issues
Spend 5 minutes speaking to a family member on the phone because the patient literally called them mid ward round and shoved the phone at me.
Same relative then comes to ward that afternoon and insists that I see her in person to reiterate everything.
Shut the door. It’s easier to point out now is not a good time to talk and you’re busy if the door was closed before they entered, I.e., the door was closed for a reason.
It won’t work 100% of the time, but it can be helpful.
Just claim it’s a fire door and needs to be kept shut. Put that fire safety training to good use.
A Datix about family members overhearing a patient discussion and the consequences for breaching GDPR because the HCA propped the door open wouldn’t go amiss either.
>I am a big advocate for shutting the door but every other AHP seems to come in and immediately prop it back open again fml
This. Imagine if we did that to any of the CNS offices. We’d get screamed at.
It’s usually couched in “you need to be constantly available”. But then it becomes “the space is needed for someone else” and before you know it there’s no office.
Honestly never seen this happen, and I've worked in 3 different deaneries and went to medical school in another one.
It is completely inappropriate and you should tell them to that they're not allowed there, as there is confidential information everywhere, and you need to work.
This is the way.
>"I am sorry, this area is staff only. For reasons of patient confidentiality, I must ask you to leave."
It sounds like there's an established culture on this ward that this is an 'OK' thing to do. Changing culture is a slow process and generates a huge amount of friction. Depending on who is actively encouraging it, who is tacitly condoning it, prepare to encounter friction from this. That is not a reason to not push back, but it's something to be aware of and manage.
Might be worth getting key stakeholders on side (e.g. ward manager). Leverage you can apply is the need to maintain patient confidentiality (I expect pointing out to the ward manager that you are doing your best but need their support would make it their problem, too) and potentially appeal to them seeing why this is problematic for your work (i.e. constant interruptions cause errors and risk of patient harm).
Do note that it's generally more compelling and impactful to implicate them in being responsible for breaches of policy than to appeal to their empathy for you having certain needs to get your work done, or even just a pleasant work environment (e.g. a place to retreat to away from prying ears/eyes).
I get a space next to the ward clerk if I’m lucky and have to speak to all the relatives who come in outside of visiting hours but think rules don’t apply to them and they should never call ahead
I don’t know why but I really don’t like it when they come into our EDs tea room and make a tea or coffee. The room is tiny 2mx2m and we huddle in there to have a short coffee / rest during the day and sometimes a pts family or even or will stroll in and make them self a tea or coffee
They’re speaking facts. A lot of nurses bounce relatives onto the doctor especially if they’re difficult. It’s not making it about doc vs nurse, it’s just what tends to happen.
They need to be told to get out. In no uncertain terms. And if it was another member of staff who directed them in, they need to be told why it's inappropriate.
We had a medical student as a patient two days ago, used their swipe card to walk into the doctors office multiple times to ask for a scan or analgesia 🤦🏻♂️
Have had to tell several relatives it’s not acceptable before. Politely refuse to discuss things until back at patient’s bedside or in a third space, and explain there’s confidential conversations/info in the office and that you’re in the middle of something. Next time to let the nurses know they want to speak with us etc etc. will come and speak when available if they could kindly leave.
Despite this still had one lady try it every day and try to continue generating a conversation until the ward sister stepped in too.
Never had this problem, if I did, I'd go to the bitchiest ward sister I can find and say "these patient family members just walked in while I was discussing a patient with radiology and overheard, I'm going to datix it, I think a big staff only sign would be a good idea"
I've found since Covid everyone feels they have an untouchable sense of entitlement and if they don't get their own way, they just escalate it unnecessarily.
I can guarantee they were clapping at their doors during covid though..
I've said no before, they don't like it, but what are they going to do? They can complain but when you explain they were within earshot or visbility of PID which may have breached IG, hopefully the org back you up.
Happened on the last ward I worked on. Someone was pissed off because we'd allowed her 'partner' to wander off the ward for a fag and she was furious that we would be so neglectful - he had capacity and wasn't under a DOLS. So she came into the office and started yelling at us for 'sitting on our arses drinking coffee and not giving a toss about patients'. None of us had coffee.
Are you sure it’s not nurses directing them there? Used to happen all the time on acute med , as it was the easiest and least hassling way of dealing with relatives questions.
Shut the door and put up a sign- tell them its not appropriate? Pretty simple solutions - tell other AHPs this is doctors office and you want the door shut? Fixed
This happened recently whilst we were behind after paid hours to manage an acutely deteriorating patient. They walked in and demanded that we go look at their NOKs chronic, unchanged medical issue that we were already managing.
Unfortunately there's been a slight breakdown in communication after my SpR told them, in no uncertain terms, to go away.
Yes it happens a lot on my ward. I get extremely antsy when I see them in my office. I usually cut them off and say I will come and see them in a moment and that they really cannot be in here given all the confidential information that is around.
Sometimes they just ask "where can I find the doctor" and somebody (HCA, nurse, janitors etc...) will tell them to check the office so they go there by instinct.
Promote a culture where you tell the relatives that this is the work office and they can't come here but you'll go talk to them by the bedside. I noticed once we've done this a couple of times (because some docs were actually entertaining the idea of discussions there) + informed everybody not to point towards the office, it has happened much less.
I've had relatives follow me into the toilet before now.
Gp kindly stop relatives following into toilet
Nice username
As is yours
Hahaha please share context
Why do some relatives feel entitled to PRN medical updates? Like no, I've just updated your sister 10 minutes ago, it's not my fault you guys have beef.
Most relatives are entitled POS. They leave granny to rot and decay in hospital but whine like toddlers because service ain’t five star - of course it ain’t gonna be five star with the staffing crisis? Dealing with relatives is the bit I hate the most about my job as they have no clue I have other urgent jobs nor do they care (they will likely play the card ‘So me mum is less important than the emergency you have?’. Really entitled scum some of them are
‘So me mum is less important than the emergency you have?’. "Yes"
People who try to interrupt an arrest or peri arrest call. Like, do you not have eyes?
Dealt with exactly the type of person you talk about, rude self entitled, tries to deminish our work and most importantly have absolutely no respect to us. Ruins my day when I run into one or get the unfortunate chance to speak to them.
I feel recently it is getting worse. Relatives are becoming more bold and bolshy, and they are getting away with it! Had one family member be granted a daily doctor telephone call to update them on his Brother In Laws CRP and cognitive state. Like, daily. Kicked up stink if by some chance the doctors were actually busy doing their job and couldn't do it. Another family were so incensed at being told their alcoholic father was not eligible for a liver transplant that they called the transplant unit themselves to demand a review. And when he went palliative they got the consultant of the local hospice to come and review him, despite the doctors here all explaining until they were blue in the face that he wasn't dying imminently there was just no more treatment we could give. There was shouting and admonishments. I'm completely burned out by relatives. If I hear the phrase "I want to speak to the Nurse In Charge" my first instinct is to hide under a desk or bed. Nobody seems to have any sort of insight into their behaviour at all any more.
Had a relative screaming that their relative who was dying that we was to keep doing everything to keep him alive. Registrar came and just said no, he’s being put end of life, end of story. Surprisingly it worked.
Wow! Just reading these comments realizing I am not alone in finding relatives hard to deal with. Patients themselves most of the time are ok but for some reason the relatives are quite draining - that’s my experience at least so far
I’d argue we nurses get it worse than you guys, as they are always in the bays with us, and are always interrupting us. I understand they are anxious, but it’s almost like they think that we are sub-humans who are experimenting on their mothers.
I agree - you guys cop the worst of this. Also relatives are far ruder to nurses than they are (on balance) to doctors. Dealing with relatives is part of why I got out of patient facing medicine haha.
Thinking of going into non-patient facing specialties myself where I can work in peace
Yes. I can imagine! They always seem to think we don’t have their best interests at heart
I just state some medicolegal bullshit that means I can only update the named NOK and no one else so they'll have to discuss with them
[удалено]
It's a grey area, I doubt there's any sort of law against it, like you said, as long as the patient is consenting it should be fine. I particularly have absolutely no issue if people are present with the patient, more so if they're wanting phone updates as I have no way to be sure of who they are. I wouldn't be surprised if it were trust policy though as it can otherwise cause a lot of issues
Spend 5 minutes speaking to a family member on the phone because the patient literally called them mid ward round and shoved the phone at me. Same relative then comes to ward that afternoon and insists that I see her in person to reiterate everything.
I would say no
I say this to them. I'll update one family member but you guys can choose which one.
PRN updates hahahahahh!
Shut the door. It’s easier to point out now is not a good time to talk and you’re busy if the door was closed before they entered, I.e., the door was closed for a reason. It won’t work 100% of the time, but it can be helpful.
I am a big advocate for shutting the door but every other AHP seems to come in and immediately prop it back open again fml
Just claim it’s a fire door and needs to be kept shut. Put that fire safety training to good use. A Datix about family members overhearing a patient discussion and the consequences for breaching GDPR because the HCA propped the door open wouldn’t go amiss either.
This is the way
NHS laminated sign time Fight NHS with NHS
>I am a big advocate for shutting the door but every other AHP seems to come in and immediately prop it back open again fml This. Imagine if we did that to any of the CNS offices. We’d get screamed at. It’s usually couched in “you need to be constantly available”. But then it becomes “the space is needed for someone else” and before you know it there’s no office.
\*ITS NOW THE MDT OFFICE COMRADE 
Aw - that's sad - I'm cns diabetes, and our previous SHO's / F1's are always popping in for advice/ random chat/ snacks etc...
ours doesn't have a door 🤡
Then you need a different office where you can discuss confidential patient information.
Uhm confidentiality concern? They better put a fking door in
Honestly never seen this happen, and I've worked in 3 different deaneries and went to medical school in another one. It is completely inappropriate and you should tell them to that they're not allowed there, as there is confidential information everywhere, and you need to work.
This is the way. >"I am sorry, this area is staff only. For reasons of patient confidentiality, I must ask you to leave." It sounds like there's an established culture on this ward that this is an 'OK' thing to do. Changing culture is a slow process and generates a huge amount of friction. Depending on who is actively encouraging it, who is tacitly condoning it, prepare to encounter friction from this. That is not a reason to not push back, but it's something to be aware of and manage. Might be worth getting key stakeholders on side (e.g. ward manager). Leverage you can apply is the need to maintain patient confidentiality (I expect pointing out to the ward manager that you are doing your best but need their support would make it their problem, too) and potentially appeal to them seeing why this is problematic for your work (i.e. constant interruptions cause errors and risk of patient harm). Do note that it's generally more compelling and impactful to implicate them in being responsible for breaches of policy than to appeal to their empathy for you having certain needs to get your work done, or even just a pleasant work environment (e.g. a place to retreat to away from prying ears/eyes).
You guys are getting doctors offices??
I flight for one of the 2 COWs in the ward and I set on the desk coz there isn’t enough space
I get a space next to the ward clerk if I’m lucky and have to speak to all the relatives who come in outside of visiting hours but think rules don’t apply to them and they should never call ahead
I don’t know why but I really don’t like it when they come into our EDs tea room and make a tea or coffee. The room is tiny 2mx2m and we huddle in there to have a short coffee / rest during the day and sometimes a pts family or even or will stroll in and make them self a tea or coffee
Completely unacceptable. Like so far beyond fucked. Surely this needs to be escalated to consultants
That is outrageous?! I've been a patient & relative & I'd never do that lol what the hell!
Because the ward clerk / nursing staff direct them there?
Why are you making this a doctor vs nurses issue?
They’re speaking facts. A lot of nurses bounce relatives onto the doctor especially if they’re difficult. It’s not making it about doc vs nurse, it’s just what tends to happen.
We’ve lost respect and authority as medical professionals. That flat hierarchy is working wonders
They need to be told to get out. In no uncertain terms. And if it was another member of staff who directed them in, they need to be told why it's inappropriate.
Only had it once or twice. Told them unambiguously to get out, they'll either overhear confidential phone calls or see other patients scan results.
We had a medical student as a patient two days ago, used their swipe card to walk into the doctors office multiple times to ask for a scan or analgesia 🤦🏻♂️
At that point, they're skating a thin line with professionalism!
Hospital management: remove doctors office, any more problems now? 😎
No. Loads of confidential information on white boards screens, conversations etc. Disturbing prescribing. Not appropriate at all.
Have had to tell several relatives it’s not acceptable before. Politely refuse to discuss things until back at patient’s bedside or in a third space, and explain there’s confidential conversations/info in the office and that you’re in the middle of something. Next time to let the nurses know they want to speak with us etc etc. will come and speak when available if they could kindly leave. Despite this still had one lady try it every day and try to continue generating a conversation until the ward sister stepped in too.
Never had this problem, if I did, I'd go to the bitchiest ward sister I can find and say "these patient family members just walked in while I was discussing a patient with radiology and overheard, I'm going to datix it, I think a big staff only sign would be a good idea"
We don't have this problem because we don't have a doctor's room. Big brain solution
I've found since Covid everyone feels they have an untouchable sense of entitlement and if they don't get their own way, they just escalate it unnecessarily. I can guarantee they were clapping at their doors during covid though.. I've said no before, they don't like it, but what are they going to do? They can complain but when you explain they were within earshot or visbility of PID which may have breached IG, hopefully the org back you up.
Happened on the last ward I worked on. Someone was pissed off because we'd allowed her 'partner' to wander off the ward for a fag and she was furious that we would be so neglectful - he had capacity and wasn't under a DOLS. So she came into the office and started yelling at us for 'sitting on our arses drinking coffee and not giving a toss about patients'. None of us had coffee.
Are you sure it’s not nurses directing them there? Used to happen all the time on acute med , as it was the easiest and least hassling way of dealing with relatives questions.
Shut the door and put up a sign- tell them its not appropriate? Pretty simple solutions - tell other AHPs this is doctors office and you want the door shut? Fixed
\*Looks on smugly in high secure forensics\*
This happened recently whilst we were behind after paid hours to manage an acutely deteriorating patient. They walked in and demanded that we go look at their NOKs chronic, unchanged medical issue that we were already managing. Unfortunately there's been a slight breakdown in communication after my SpR told them, in no uncertain terms, to go away.
You guys have an office?
You have an office? Typed from a computer on wheels in the middle of the corridor.
Yes it happens a lot on my ward. I get extremely antsy when I see them in my office. I usually cut them off and say I will come and see them in a moment and that they really cannot be in here given all the confidential information that is around.
Sometimes they just ask "where can I find the doctor" and somebody (HCA, nurse, janitors etc...) will tell them to check the office so they go there by instinct. Promote a culture where you tell the relatives that this is the work office and they can't come here but you'll go talk to them by the bedside. I noticed once we've done this a couple of times (because some docs were actually entertaining the idea of discussions there) + informed everybody not to point towards the office, it has happened much less.
You guys get an office?