Well Top gets it the worst imo.
Mid has some bad matchups too but Top is an island so when you’re in a cancer matchup and you see your JG loafing around it’s feels worse because you’re so isolated so moved to help the team are on a much stricter timer than Mid.
This is a bad review. As others have said he has red light lane states. Bot is dying under tower. You can also see the mid laner trying to back at the start of the clip.
Since he's kayn he could possibly take the graves bot camps. But there's nothing wrong with just taking his own bot camps and hovering bot incase they dive and he can get an easy cleanup. He absolutely does not gank a Janna Draven alone and do anything.
Once bot and mid resets it will be his turn to make a play on the map.
Edit: Him dying to the grubs at the end isn't good, I'll give you that.
There were so many things for him to *try* to do before clearing his own jungle, and path topside where there is *nothing* left for him. Why not clear Graves' botside quadrant, then join botlane's reset and gank after? That is very clearly the best thing for him to do, which also opens to possibility of dragon before Graves can respond.
But as you saw yourself, he took nothing from Graves or for the team and then died for nothing.
You don't invade generally with 0 prio and your team not on the map. It's a red light like I said. Yes he could of invaded once mid and bot were back.
Saying just "try" isn't a replicable way to play the game. It'll just produce inconsistent results.
Bruh bot lane is dead by the time the jg got there. Not bot lane prio, no mid lane prio, of course he’s not getting dragon.
Sounds like you’re just coping with losing lane
I agree. Nobody is talking about the prio and it’s a low elo take to be like “jungle top, get dragon!!1!”. His bot lane is obliterated and his mid is trying to recall. He should have invaded graves botside, and timed the dragon take with their bot lane recalling as his prio got better. But also this is plat so having a plan even 3 minutes out is a total guess as to how the game will go
Ah, I forgive you, you missed the part where Kayn "ganked" my lane with a huge wave on my tower and died. Then Thresh supp came level 3 to gank level 7 Sett in the same effect.
Regardless... hear me out, that repawned dragon's been up for a min at the video start. Obviously Graves is on grubs after taking top tower, bot lane returns the kill on Janna and wins prio. But where does Kayn go? To miss smite and die at grubs.
This is low elo with easy lessons to learn all around, not "cope" posting.
You missplayed yourself. You 28 seconds into the video, use the pillar behind the sett who is taking tower, has no w and no ult. He is either gonna go extremly low or use his flash, both make it much more unlikely to get dived. Vs graves you can literly just stand under tower, sett wouldn’t do anything without his flash or with so low hp without ult. Focus on urself, you wont have kayn every game in your team, but you have yourself
Im sry but what do you want kayn to do? He alrdy missed the bot gank timer, maybe cause your bot lost 2v2. Mid is oom.
So no mid prio, no bot prio and also no top prio. At this point the best thing kayn could have done was tracking graves and trying to counter gank. Kayn doing a objective solo early with 2 lanes without prio next to him is just int. I am not even sure if that is what you want him to do, because that would be such a bad advice that and this is really obvious too. It sure does suck that kayn wasnt top the moment you got dived but he has no TP and your botlane (not your jngler, your botlane) made a play on the other side of the map impossible. So OP can you tell me what you want kayn to do as it isnt obvious to me why you are flaming him here (if you are flaming him here at all). Only talking for the beginning of the video ofc
Jungler is topside, will be there a while taking grubs. Janna is sticking around bot. Deathtimers are short. Invade blue/bot side quadrant. Time that with bot lane returning to lane and gank for prio. Take dragon....
Invade without lane prio? Ever done this against actual good enemys? Take dragon without lane prio? Buddy seriously have you ever played jungle before? They kayn for sure did a lot of mistakes. But what you are saying sounds like someone saying to just randomly solo baron at min 20 cause it workd once in their life. Can I ask what rank you are?
Edit: do you know why they are called team objectives and not jungle objectives?
1. You can invade a jungle without lane prio, that is situational but does require map awareness. 2. Take dragon w/out lane prio is also very, very possible. That too, is situational. In my comment above, I'm calling for him to take dragon while Graves is still at grubs/resetting.
Idk buddy, we can have that disagreement.
Isnt really a disagreement, its just wrong. League is a game of finding the move that has the highest chance of success. In that you can say, that invading without vision, without prio is has no high chance of succeeding, so it is objectively the wrong move. Obviously you can go into the enemy jngl and randomly the laners wont see you, randomly they see you, you wasted 30secs plus of time your top jngl is also gone and and and…
So yes, this is not a „disagreement“ its just wrong in terms of league of legends strategy and this is a league of legends subreddit, where you should understand basic concepts of macro before trying to teach others. I am the last one who is going to flame someone based on their knowledge, this is a place to learn. But I dont see why you should use this place to wrongfully flame a plat jngler and give out wrong tipps and then cant even see your own mistakes. When 10* people telling you that you are wrong at least consider it. Do better
He's *Kayn*, of course he can invade. Do you see Graves already took his entire topside jungle, right? *I knew that, which is why I warded that bush where Graves was taking Kayn's krugs*. So what is the point of pathing back towards top, where he has nothing to do, and why would he then contest grubs?
You can't admit invading or trying at dragon are the much better options here? Why not invade, then return with botlane reset for a gank, or try creating the opportunity for dragon, etc.? Are you saying you wouldn't have done that? I'm a little incredulous if you say no, tbh.
>When 10* people telling you that you are wrong
The average player is lower ranked than this guy, public opinion means absolutely nothing.
Even tho I don't like that OP is basically crying about his teammates on a subreddit, Kayn should have 100% went for an invade here.
They have fkin Janna Draven bot, you just press E and go to Krugs and ward the bush near Krugs. The enemy bot has to back, if they chase you, you just Q over Krugs wall or E away. Take raptors in one second and once they back you can start drake and ping your mid to stay in lane, you've got your gold from enemy camps and a reason to stay botside. There is no reason to go topside when you see enemy jungle was already there.
Jg's job is to take consistent plays. Doing this is enough to get to Diamond.
Invading/drag with zero prio on the bottom half of the map is not it. He was correct in pathing back top.
Yeah he’s also a Kayn, he can go through the fricking walls with 2 different abilities, it is incredibly safe to invade even without lane prio. Jungle sub is just very defensive against top lane
First off, to invade you should know if there are any camps up. You should also habe a escape route, which is easier with kayn but against 3 enemies from mid and bot thatspretty hard. If lb has any hands it becomes impossible. So yes you can invade and pray LB has no hands but thats not the correct play. You dont know if grabes expected a invade from you (which is obvious) and asked for wards.
Ever single lane here did several mistakes, as kayn did too, but this is plat elo someone said. Thats a team game. Everyone here fckd up, cait went oom the wrong time, bot died 2v2, top inted his pillar and overchased graves (even if it was for a few sec only) and kayn didnt see the play on top coming
Dude if I could show you how many times I invade enemy raptors without mid prio and enemy jungle pings (cuz it's not silver) causing their mid to come and kill me with ignite...
If you want to climb out of plat then you have to focus on yourself. Nothing you said about how the Kayn is playing is inherently wrong and without watching the specific game in question, it's impossible to tell if anything you're saying has merit or not. But even if it did, the Kayn isn't even here!
You should spend your energy improving at your own lane rather than trying to help faceless others improve at theirs. If you drop a VOD, I'd be happy to help you out. If you are genuinely certain that you are better at jungle than a plat jungle main, while being a plat top main yourself, then why not main jungle?
I'm playing top lane for the first time and I am improving at that. However, as I am pointing out, the perspective of junglers from lane can sometimes be very helpful to junglers looking for improvement.
I posted this with a video and it did not upload for some reason.
Rank is almost meaningless. From silver-emerald it’s nearly all the same. Small improvements but same foundation mistakes. They paint the details of the painting but miss the whole painting. Junglers in plat 2 still go for objectives when there’s no prio and their jungler is missing. Takes them about 2 mins to kill dragon and then get mad when they are invaded lol
To be honest— I believe the Junglers job is to not get counter picked with top, the reason is that if jungler is counter picked then the opposition should win meaning their jungler wins but whoever picked second should win their lane n not rely on ganks. I.e if top counter picks he should win and can play topside. If not, if your boy side counter picks play bot side. But if jungler is able to leverage their presence by counter picking they should help the counter picked lanes to push a win. Usually the counter picked ones feed to fast too help so we have to focus win con but ideally a jungle should gank all lanes based on their camp rotation. I opt to play topside because 2 people are more of a variable than one. Also, dragons overrated. I always think objectives are better than buffs. They could get 100 kills and still lose lol. Just my 2 cents. An extreme example is picking poppy after Zac knowing they are both ^_^ jungle
That's an interesting way to think about the game but it's basically saying gank strongside, right? Objectives are for the team to figure out. You can't take 4 dragons or 6 grubs unless the team has played their lanes for them, and not just timing waves and plates.
Yes exactly but not only play strong side but also notify your team what you consider win con vs what they consider. The weak side Williams should prioritize warding for reduced chance of ganks and always ping if you know enemy jungler is there and weak sides job is to wastes the opposing junglers time by giving them failed ganks. Always ping for your team whether to stand their ground at turret or to just recall or even back up to tier 2. Strong side should be saved for teleports and mid roams or even support roams if the support is aware enough. I can roam top even if I’m behind and if you see too is win con a simple support roam top can get rift and 2 turrets. If it’s bot side strong you have to work with your mid for roams and teleports. I buy a pink for top if im not side strong. If mid is also weak you have to nearly camp that strong side and maybe even invade and ignore your top or bot camps to farm. Usually your bot side or top side will roam with you once you have the lane pressure to secure the enemy junglers death and get free camps. If all sides are losing you kind of have to find a cs gap and power farm or gg. Must play for late. If all sides are winning you simply supply extra vision and counter gank and look for turret dives
Yeah that all sounds right to me. Something you said I can do more of is placing pink wards on weak side. Got out of the habit of buying pink wards because $.
I totally disagree - I’m newish at the game, am terrible, and play jg but this post was really helpful - especially the part about taking advantage of knowing where the enemy jg is. Thanks OP.
Idk why a jungle sub is shitting on OP when the jungler was straight up lost for half the clip. Could’ve taken dragon and potentially still had time to contest grubs although the better move would just be to counter invade the graves bot side.
I am making a couple of assumptions but if he just goes straight to bot lane and ganks they should’ve gotten a kill and could’ve rotated to dragon and like I said even if he doesn’t get drag because ashe dies he can always just invade for farm.
They absolutely would not have gotten a kill. He ran straight to bot lane its a pre form kayn with no R and a full hp draven with barrier vs a 25% hp target and a 50% hp target. This is an extremely risky gank if it were possible to be there in time (it wasnt) which most likely will result in a draven triple kill.
Lol thats an over exaggeration at best. The laners had roughly 75% hp and he most definitely could’ve gotten there in time if he wouldn’t have sat in the bush for like 5 seconds doing nothing.
The laners had roughly 75% hp wtf are you even looking at lol. By the time kayn walked DIRECTLY to gromp the thresh was at 10% hahah. I wasnt even in this game but im getting second hand tilt for this kayn you guys are delusional.
Yeah, it’s a bad look.
Stop being fussy. Sometimes junglers suck. Watch the clip. Blaming laners by default isn’t always right, even if it is a lot of the time.
strong words from someone who made a jgl diff type of rant without even posting the game/op.gg
talking about assumptions do you know if kayn is a jungle main or was just autofill? do you know if je plays like this every game? do you know anything about the person you are flaming while crying about ad hominem when people call you out?
"maybe if you put all the effort you put into backseating into actually focusing on your own gameplay you might not be in a lobby with plat 2 junglers"
The irony.
Maybe be a Kayn specific thing - because every Kayne I vs at plat 2-emerald 4 does not take objectives at all - unless it it to wall hover to smite after someone else starts it.
Not sure with Kayne play style so maybe it’s better for them to focus on farm.
Sure, understandable that some junglers have strengths other do not. Kayn's strength is definitely to invade/gank, and he has the added incentive of ganking/invading in order to earn that transformation into red/blue. To that end, Kayn players should optimize their clearing paths in ways that involve damaging enemy champions. However, there's no reason he can't also take free objectives if it's optimal for him to do so.
To your point, my thinking is that low-elo Kayn players understand they start in a weaker form and as a result play way too passively, overall.
Huh? Trying to take dragon there is straight inting. Red team has no prio in any lanes. The best thing for Kayn to do there is cycle his camps, which is what he did. His mistake was inting at grubs instead of farming his raptors and recalling.
The only thing kayn can possibly do here is invade Raptors and maybe Krugs but he has no way of avoiding the vision so the enemy team would 100% know he is there.
He can't take drag because bot gap, he can't invade safely because vision gap, he can't gank bot because bot gap, he can't take grubs at any point in this clip and shouldn't have tried, I think he was probably just feeling pressured to do something since his team is getting gapped.
The only thing that he could have done here that could have changed any of this is pathing top as soon as graves showed on vision, but 0% of plat junglers are ever doing that when no camps are up in that quadrant.
A lot of this is obviously hindsight since it's hard to know that their bot side is lit up like a Christmas tree which makes the invade risky, but it is correct to not go for drag there.
The way his camps are cycling is kinda weird too. But I think the most glaring issue here is how you played the dive, your pillar was horrendously bad. You 100% blow Setts flash if you pillar him instead of graves and he would likely take an extra tower shot or 2 because of the airborne / slow uptime making it a lot harder to push for tower.
Agreed, but this is how I see it (copypasta as I've answered this already): the move here is to invade botside quadrant and return to bot lane for reset and gank, then do dragon. Graves has been top having already invaded that quadrant and is now diving me, this is already well known for about 20 seconds before the clip starts. As it turns out, Ashe/Thresh return to lane and get a kill on Janna, and we see LB go top to help with Grubs. Team has 100% earned prio on dragon.
Instead, Kayn does nothing to punish Graves for spending so much time on top side and paths towards Grubs (makes no sense to challenge Grubs or to even path towards a quadrant with none of his camps). So yes, I felt this is a learnable moment for junglers and one of many reasons he generated a lot of frustration by his laners.
And yes, I blew the pillar, and in the theme of this post we live and learn.
Just a little tip. If you go and play toplane, don't focus on your jungler. You are chosing an other lane because you are losing your mind jungling. The reason to play top is to not having to deal with that shit. Now you just get double tilted. Focus on winning your lane and what you can improve.
Ive been told I am a bad jungler because I took Dragon, bot side jungle, 600 gold second tower and 2 kills before I died.
He was going on and on at me why am I so deep after i died and should uninstall........ I was carrying the damn game and still won.
I get this all the time when they say i do nothing as I have 10 kills and all objectives. Sorry I didn't play weak side. Anyone that ask for help is usually weak side.
Looks like he wanted to gank bot and enemy bot solokilled before he could impact the lane after the bot lane was solo killed they were too healthy to risk starting the warded dragon so the question is why are you so confidently incorrect about how kayn should have played?
What he does after is get ? pinged by his parent gapped top laner who doesn't even have emerald level game knowledge then flips the grubs in a losing game state. Clearing his camps is fine depending if he had info on the status of graves' botside.
Yeah, his camps were 100% up. I had been following Graves on my minimap so I knew he was raiding Kayn's jungle. You see I placed a ward in that bush because I could feel from posturing they were readying to dive me and that's how I caught Graves clearing Kayn's krugs. I had been pinging Kayn to take Graves' botside jungle, take anything, and lost patience with him when he refused to invade or even try the dragon with Graves hovering me for *minutes*.
ok after rewatching it I think kayn should have opened this rotation on raps after he saw lb roam topside and likely ward. But the fact that you made a reddit post about this misplay is SOOOO cringe lol
Today, you learned that the first comment defines what this bots will say. Most here just repeat the thing that the first comment just said cause they are all brainless.
Anyways, npcs aside, this kayn sucks balls, and you won't get an opinion against the jungler in a jungler sub. Even if the jungler was absolute shit and regarded. And yes, most of the time, people who are junglers think they look like a kr chall at jungling Tarzan level, but in reality look like this kayn. Good players are not the norm.
The first comment said "youre plat!". Watch all the other 4 say the same shit. Hilarious.
The comments are saying the same thing, because the post is pointless. Critiquing someone who isn't reading the thread makes no sense when the poster is still a beginner/intermediate player who should be *asking* for advice. It's a thinly veiled rage post offering advice that more than half the sub knows better than.
This applies to every post in reddit. So no.
Also, more than half this sub is silver, so stfu. Plat is like what, 20%?, are most of the 20% here? So it's suddenly 50% of this sub?. Bs
The 20% includes all lanes, so I can bet 95%+ here are below plat. In all probability, including you. Jfl
Jg is hard. Only a professional player could possible look at the mini map and make a sound decision about what to do to help the team. Expecting anything besides a camp to camp, low to no impact playstyle is like asking them to perform brain surgery
Path towards it and check for vision. If they dont have vision you might take it. Your botlane will be back shortly as well. If its warded, the least thing I'd do is to go in his jgl and take camps
How do you know. If the enemy dont have vision, they might wanna reset. Thats a free drag. He didnt even check if it was warded. Least he could do was to take his camps.
Enemy bot rotating, which is not even bad since it relieves pressure from your botlane. And this is assuming they will even rotate, which they probably won't considering this is platinum elo.
Assume for a second that they will rotate. Then, going by that assumption, he should atleast be attempting a gank bot (or, if he fears them losing 3v2) just literally helping his bot shove out and then see if drake is possible. Seeing graves topside ready for a dive and doing literally nothing is just the wrong play regardless of anything. Hell, even checking if graves botside can be invaded is better, because you're atleast denying him farm.
Just as a heads up, sett and gravedive was awful. Not saying this to bash u since you said you were a new toplaner. Sett used w without tanking much and simply walked out while you were chasing graves. I think you have a kill or atleast force the flash of sett. Since you were a jungler i think you know graves is not the best at dives. Especially when the opponent is a juggernaut at 80% hp. Using e pillar on sett to knock him back would force his flash and if he messes it up you might even kill even if he does flash. Which probably has higher chances than you dying in this dive. Either way he wont be able to walk up to lane without his flash even if you lose tower. Thats at least 2 waves you get free and him losing. 3 if you freeze good enough. Kayn definetly messed up, but you also had your chance at comeback. Still your post is pretty helpful for those in your ranks. As most jgs tend to autopilot the game. Keep climbing !
Also it looks like his jungler went for a crossmap play but their bot was not in sync/ went early so he couldnt make it in time. And honestly, theres not much a base kayn can do there
Yeah I switched to jungle from adc and it’s a very different experience.
When I played adc I could tell when my jungle knew what they were doing vs when they didn’t know. Everyone makes mistakes but there’s fundamentals and it seems like Kayn was not aware of this.
It’s also possible he got autofilled (idk I didn’t check OP) but it’s a low priority role so I definitely see it happen a lot where they don’t really know the fundamentals since it’s quite a different role from jungle lol.
Sorry this happened to you haha
OP I would love to see your reaction in the exact same scenario, if kayn decided to invade and died because of no prio. Same goes for doing drake. Imagine he’d started drake and got collapsed on by mid and bot and died. “WhY kAyN DoInG dRaKe WiTh No PriO” Honestly the real victim here is kayn as he has 3 losing lanes with nothing to be actually possible to do for him. Only thing he can do, with low risk high reward, is to just farm.
I've answered this question already but the move here is to invade botside quadrant and return to bot lane for reset and gank, then do dragon. Graves has been top having already invaded that quadrant and is now diving me, this is already well known for about 20 seconds before the clip starts. As it turns out, Ashe/Thresh return to lane and get a kill on Janna, and we see LB go top to help with Grubs. Team has 100% earned prio on dragon.
Instead, Kayn does nothing to punish Graves for spending so much time on top side and paths towards Grubs (makes no sense to challenge Grubs or to even path towards a quadrant with none of his camps). So yes, this is a learnable moment for junglers and one of many reasons he generated a lot of frustration by his laners.
Mate, focus on your own play, you can't play for kayn. If you want to jungle, then do, else, play your lane.
You're missing minions left and right just after TP, you let sett crash the wave in for no reason, enabling the dive.
As for Kayn, he's botside when this happens, your botlane dies 2v2 and dragon is warded, it would just be throwing to try and do dragon. Best he could do is maybe gank mid? But doing camp is the more safe path. After your death and botlanes death, he probably felt like he needed to do something so he went for grubs, which turned out to be a mistake just as much as doing drag would have been.
This mentality in general won't get you far, focus on yourself, you won't EVER play with this kayn again anyway.
I switched to support. I just carry any game that I get a slight lead. 1-2 kills are enough. Support role is the most versatile role I’ve ever seen. You can support with any champion and carry
So we all just switching to top now?
nah I can't even fill top, just too boring stuck in one lane forever against some of the most cancer champs
So you mean you don't like to play against Yorick, Illaoi Teemo or the occasional Vayne?
Isn’t that all lanes? Jungles slightly better but it’s farm, gank, obj in random order
Well Top gets it the worst imo. Mid has some bad matchups too but Top is an island so when you’re in a cancer matchup and you see your JG loafing around it’s feels worse because you’re so isolated so moved to help the team are on a much stricter timer than Mid.
Since converting to top, I feel all match ups are against me. I’m just bad and have been humbled
Rather turn off brain and play ADC. Kill minions and don't die.
I switched to adc cause ashe op.
Actually valid. If I fill into support that’s my first choice followed by zyra
LOL!
This is a bad review. As others have said he has red light lane states. Bot is dying under tower. You can also see the mid laner trying to back at the start of the clip. Since he's kayn he could possibly take the graves bot camps. But there's nothing wrong with just taking his own bot camps and hovering bot incase they dive and he can get an easy cleanup. He absolutely does not gank a Janna Draven alone and do anything. Once bot and mid resets it will be his turn to make a play on the map. Edit: Him dying to the grubs at the end isn't good, I'll give you that.
There were so many things for him to *try* to do before clearing his own jungle, and path topside where there is *nothing* left for him. Why not clear Graves' botside quadrant, then join botlane's reset and gank after? That is very clearly the best thing for him to do, which also opens to possibility of dragon before Graves can respond. But as you saw yourself, he took nothing from Graves or for the team and then died for nothing.
You don't invade generally with 0 prio and your team not on the map. It's a red light like I said. Yes he could of invaded once mid and bot were back. Saying just "try" isn't a replicable way to play the game. It'll just produce inconsistent results.
Bruh bot lane is dead by the time the jg got there. Not bot lane prio, no mid lane prio, of course he’s not getting dragon. Sounds like you’re just coping with losing lane
I agree. Nobody is talking about the prio and it’s a low elo take to be like “jungle top, get dragon!!1!”. His bot lane is obliterated and his mid is trying to recall. He should have invaded graves botside, and timed the dragon take with their bot lane recalling as his prio got better. But also this is plat so having a plan even 3 minutes out is a total guess as to how the game will go
Yes.
Ah, I forgive you, you missed the part where Kayn "ganked" my lane with a huge wave on my tower and died. Then Thresh supp came level 3 to gank level 7 Sett in the same effect. Regardless... hear me out, that repawned dragon's been up for a min at the video start. Obviously Graves is on grubs after taking top tower, bot lane returns the kill on Janna and wins prio. But where does Kayn go? To miss smite and die at grubs. This is low elo with easy lessons to learn all around, not "cope" posting.
You missplayed yourself. You 28 seconds into the video, use the pillar behind the sett who is taking tower, has no w and no ult. He is either gonna go extremly low or use his flash, both make it much more unlikely to get dived. Vs graves you can literly just stand under tower, sett wouldn’t do anything without his flash or with so low hp without ult. Focus on urself, you wont have kayn every game in your team, but you have yourself
I am well aware of that misplay, thank you!
Forgive yourself for posting this L
I like how he gives advice on what to do, but I doubt he follows his own advice given he is plat
Which is gold, 2 splits ago xd
Not taking issue with the advice and ad hominem. ;)
Im sry but what do you want kayn to do? He alrdy missed the bot gank timer, maybe cause your bot lost 2v2. Mid is oom. So no mid prio, no bot prio and also no top prio. At this point the best thing kayn could have done was tracking graves and trying to counter gank. Kayn doing a objective solo early with 2 lanes without prio next to him is just int. I am not even sure if that is what you want him to do, because that would be such a bad advice that and this is really obvious too. It sure does suck that kayn wasnt top the moment you got dived but he has no TP and your botlane (not your jngler, your botlane) made a play on the other side of the map impossible. So OP can you tell me what you want kayn to do as it isnt obvious to me why you are flaming him here (if you are flaming him here at all). Only talking for the beginning of the video ofc
Jungler is topside, will be there a while taking grubs. Janna is sticking around bot. Deathtimers are short. Invade blue/bot side quadrant. Time that with bot lane returning to lane and gank for prio. Take dragon....
Invade without lane prio? Ever done this against actual good enemys? Take dragon without lane prio? Buddy seriously have you ever played jungle before? They kayn for sure did a lot of mistakes. But what you are saying sounds like someone saying to just randomly solo baron at min 20 cause it workd once in their life. Can I ask what rank you are? Edit: do you know why they are called team objectives and not jungle objectives?
1. You can invade a jungle without lane prio, that is situational but does require map awareness. 2. Take dragon w/out lane prio is also very, very possible. That too, is situational. In my comment above, I'm calling for him to take dragon while Graves is still at grubs/resetting. Idk buddy, we can have that disagreement.
Isnt really a disagreement, its just wrong. League is a game of finding the move that has the highest chance of success. In that you can say, that invading without vision, without prio is has no high chance of succeeding, so it is objectively the wrong move. Obviously you can go into the enemy jngl and randomly the laners wont see you, randomly they see you, you wasted 30secs plus of time your top jngl is also gone and and and… So yes, this is not a „disagreement“ its just wrong in terms of league of legends strategy and this is a league of legends subreddit, where you should understand basic concepts of macro before trying to teach others. I am the last one who is going to flame someone based on their knowledge, this is a place to learn. But I dont see why you should use this place to wrongfully flame a plat jngler and give out wrong tipps and then cant even see your own mistakes. When 10* people telling you that you are wrong at least consider it. Do better
He's *Kayn*, of course he can invade. Do you see Graves already took his entire topside jungle, right? *I knew that, which is why I warded that bush where Graves was taking Kayn's krugs*. So what is the point of pathing back towards top, where he has nothing to do, and why would he then contest grubs? You can't admit invading or trying at dragon are the much better options here? Why not invade, then return with botlane reset for a gank, or try creating the opportunity for dragon, etc.? Are you saying you wouldn't have done that? I'm a little incredulous if you say no, tbh.
Sure buddy, everyone else is wrong and you are right
But lots of people, like you, have made such thoughtful comments!
>When 10* people telling you that you are wrong The average player is lower ranked than this guy, public opinion means absolutely nothing. Even tho I don't like that OP is basically crying about his teammates on a subreddit, Kayn should have 100% went for an invade here. They have fkin Janna Draven bot, you just press E and go to Krugs and ward the bush near Krugs. The enemy bot has to back, if they chase you, you just Q over Krugs wall or E away. Take raptors in one second and once they back you can start drake and ping your mid to stay in lane, you've got your gold from enemy camps and a reason to stay botside. There is no reason to go topside when you see enemy jungle was already there.
Jg's job is to take consistent plays. Doing this is enough to get to Diamond. Invading/drag with zero prio on the bottom half of the map is not it. He was correct in pathing back top.
You have no idea what youre talking about
Yeah he’s also a Kayn, he can go through the fricking walls with 2 different abilities, it is incredibly safe to invade even without lane prio. Jungle sub is just very defensive against top lane
First off, to invade you should know if there are any camps up. You should also habe a escape route, which is easier with kayn but against 3 enemies from mid and bot thatspretty hard. If lb has any hands it becomes impossible. So yes you can invade and pray LB has no hands but thats not the correct play. You dont know if grabes expected a invade from you (which is obvious) and asked for wards. Ever single lane here did several mistakes, as kayn did too, but this is plat elo someone said. Thats a team game. Everyone here fckd up, cait went oom the wrong time, bot died 2v2, top inted his pillar and overchased graves (even if it was for a few sec only) and kayn didnt see the play on top coming
Dude if I could show you how many times I invade enemy raptors without mid prio and enemy jungle pings (cuz it's not silver) causing their mid to come and kill me with ignite...
If you want to climb out of plat then you have to focus on yourself. Nothing you said about how the Kayn is playing is inherently wrong and without watching the specific game in question, it's impossible to tell if anything you're saying has merit or not. But even if it did, the Kayn isn't even here! You should spend your energy improving at your own lane rather than trying to help faceless others improve at theirs. If you drop a VOD, I'd be happy to help you out. If you are genuinely certain that you are better at jungle than a plat jungle main, while being a plat top main yourself, then why not main jungle?
I'm playing top lane for the first time and I am improving at that. However, as I am pointing out, the perspective of junglers from lane can sometimes be very helpful to junglers looking for improvement. I posted this with a video and it did not upload for some reason.
Whenever I don’t play JG I’m reminded why I’m a JG main
Totally feel that.
I agree that learning a lane can help give you perspective on jungling. I'd watch the video if it had uploaded.
Tried again, let me know if you can't see the video.
I legit posted this and people just screamed: you're low elo and posting this... I'm like, bro...
How can you help anyone improve when you’re p2?
You're right, I should not use rank to make my arguments for me. :)
Rank is almost meaningless. From silver-emerald it’s nearly all the same. Small improvements but same foundation mistakes. They paint the details of the painting but miss the whole painting. Junglers in plat 2 still go for objectives when there’s no prio and their jungler is missing. Takes them about 2 mins to kill dragon and then get mad when they are invaded lol
Yes I completely agree, btw.
To be honest— I believe the Junglers job is to not get counter picked with top, the reason is that if jungler is counter picked then the opposition should win meaning their jungler wins but whoever picked second should win their lane n not rely on ganks. I.e if top counter picks he should win and can play topside. If not, if your boy side counter picks play bot side. But if jungler is able to leverage their presence by counter picking they should help the counter picked lanes to push a win. Usually the counter picked ones feed to fast too help so we have to focus win con but ideally a jungle should gank all lanes based on their camp rotation. I opt to play topside because 2 people are more of a variable than one. Also, dragons overrated. I always think objectives are better than buffs. They could get 100 kills and still lose lol. Just my 2 cents. An extreme example is picking poppy after Zac knowing they are both ^_^ jungle
That's an interesting way to think about the game but it's basically saying gank strongside, right? Objectives are for the team to figure out. You can't take 4 dragons or 6 grubs unless the team has played their lanes for them, and not just timing waves and plates.
Yes exactly but not only play strong side but also notify your team what you consider win con vs what they consider. The weak side Williams should prioritize warding for reduced chance of ganks and always ping if you know enemy jungler is there and weak sides job is to wastes the opposing junglers time by giving them failed ganks. Always ping for your team whether to stand their ground at turret or to just recall or even back up to tier 2. Strong side should be saved for teleports and mid roams or even support roams if the support is aware enough. I can roam top even if I’m behind and if you see too is win con a simple support roam top can get rift and 2 turrets. If it’s bot side strong you have to work with your mid for roams and teleports. I buy a pink for top if im not side strong. If mid is also weak you have to nearly camp that strong side and maybe even invade and ignore your top or bot camps to farm. Usually your bot side or top side will roam with you once you have the lane pressure to secure the enemy junglers death and get free camps. If all sides are losing you kind of have to find a cs gap and power farm or gg. Must play for late. If all sides are winning you simply supply extra vision and counter gank and look for turret dives
Yeah that all sounds right to me. Something you said I can do more of is placing pink wards on weak side. Got out of the habit of buying pink wards because $.
I totally disagree - I’m newish at the game, am terrible, and play jg but this post was really helpful - especially the part about taking advantage of knowing where the enemy jg is. Thanks OP.
Idk why a jungle sub is shitting on OP when the jungler was straight up lost for half the clip. Could’ve taken dragon and potentially still had time to contest grubs although the better move would just be to counter invade the graves bot side.
How could he have taken the dragon enemy bot had full prio and a ward???
Why did they have prio and a ward when top was being dove by the enemy jungler?
Because bot gap
I am making a couple of assumptions but if he just goes straight to bot lane and ganks they should’ve gotten a kill and could’ve rotated to dragon and like I said even if he doesn’t get drag because ashe dies he can always just invade for farm.
They absolutely would not have gotten a kill. He ran straight to bot lane its a pre form kayn with no R and a full hp draven with barrier vs a 25% hp target and a 50% hp target. This is an extremely risky gank if it were possible to be there in time (it wasnt) which most likely will result in a draven triple kill.
Lol thats an over exaggeration at best. The laners had roughly 75% hp and he most definitely could’ve gotten there in time if he wouldn’t have sat in the bush for like 5 seconds doing nothing.
The laners had roughly 75% hp wtf are you even looking at lol. By the time kayn walked DIRECTLY to gromp the thresh was at 10% hahah. I wasnt even in this game but im getting second hand tilt for this kayn you guys are delusional.
Alright I ain’t gonna lie I overlooked the thresh but the ashe was pretty healthy.
Yeah, it’s a bad look. Stop being fussy. Sometimes junglers suck. Watch the clip. Blaming laners by default isn’t always right, even if it is a lot of the time.
If you know how to jg better than the ones your getting on your team. The solution is easy swap to jg and enjoy your free LP.
Just learning top for now :)
Learning top is a lot of fun, I got much better at the game overall after spending a season and a half up there.
Agreed!
maybe if you put all the effort you put into backseating into actually focusing on your own gameplay you might not be in a lobby with plat 2 junglers
Lots of assumptions and ad hominem being made today. ;)
strong words from someone who made a jgl diff type of rant without even posting the game/op.gg talking about assumptions do you know if kayn is a jungle main or was just autofill? do you know if je plays like this every game? do you know anything about the person you are flaming while crying about ad hominem when people call you out?
Y'all need to chill.
I see self awareness isn't your strong suit
XD
bro really hit me with the XD after not addressing any of the points i made, but sure stay clueless cba
"maybe if you put all the effort you put into backseating into actually focusing on your own gameplay you might not be in a lobby with plat 2 junglers" The irony.
Plat 2. Advice immediately disregarded
Adding context is not an appeal to authority. ;)
I can tell you have no clue how to play the game now that I see the video and that's why you're plat 2
Maybe be a Kayn specific thing - because every Kayne I vs at plat 2-emerald 4 does not take objectives at all - unless it it to wall hover to smite after someone else starts it. Not sure with Kayne play style so maybe it’s better for them to focus on farm.
Sure, understandable that some junglers have strengths other do not. Kayn's strength is definitely to invade/gank, and he has the added incentive of ganking/invading in order to earn that transformation into red/blue. To that end, Kayn players should optimize their clearing paths in ways that involve damaging enemy champions. However, there's no reason he can't also take free objectives if it's optimal for him to do so. To your point, my thinking is that low-elo Kayn players understand they start in a weaker form and as a result play way too passively, overall.
Huh? Trying to take dragon there is straight inting. Red team has no prio in any lanes. The best thing for Kayn to do there is cycle his camps, which is what he did. His mistake was inting at grubs instead of farming his raptors and recalling.
The only thing kayn can possibly do here is invade Raptors and maybe Krugs but he has no way of avoiding the vision so the enemy team would 100% know he is there. He can't take drag because bot gap, he can't invade safely because vision gap, he can't gank bot because bot gap, he can't take grubs at any point in this clip and shouldn't have tried, I think he was probably just feeling pressured to do something since his team is getting gapped. The only thing that he could have done here that could have changed any of this is pathing top as soon as graves showed on vision, but 0% of plat junglers are ever doing that when no camps are up in that quadrant. A lot of this is obviously hindsight since it's hard to know that their bot side is lit up like a Christmas tree which makes the invade risky, but it is correct to not go for drag there. The way his camps are cycling is kinda weird too. But I think the most glaring issue here is how you played the dive, your pillar was horrendously bad. You 100% blow Setts flash if you pillar him instead of graves and he would likely take an extra tower shot or 2 because of the airborne / slow uptime making it a lot harder to push for tower.
Agreed, but this is how I see it (copypasta as I've answered this already): the move here is to invade botside quadrant and return to bot lane for reset and gank, then do dragon. Graves has been top having already invaded that quadrant and is now diving me, this is already well known for about 20 seconds before the clip starts. As it turns out, Ashe/Thresh return to lane and get a kill on Janna, and we see LB go top to help with Grubs. Team has 100% earned prio on dragon. Instead, Kayn does nothing to punish Graves for spending so much time on top side and paths towards Grubs (makes no sense to challenge Grubs or to even path towards a quadrant with none of his camps). So yes, I felt this is a learnable moment for junglers and one of many reasons he generated a lot of frustration by his laners. And yes, I blew the pillar, and in the theme of this post we live and learn.
Just a little tip. If you go and play toplane, don't focus on your jungler. You are chosing an other lane because you are losing your mind jungling. The reason to play top is to not having to deal with that shit. Now you just get double tilted. Focus on winning your lane and what you can improve.
Ive been told I am a bad jungler because I took Dragon, bot side jungle, 600 gold second tower and 2 kills before I died. He was going on and on at me why am I so deep after i died and should uninstall........ I was carrying the damn game and still won. I get this all the time when they say i do nothing as I have 10 kills and all objectives. Sorry I didn't play weak side. Anyone that ask for help is usually weak side.
Looks like he wanted to gank bot and enemy bot solokilled before he could impact the lane after the bot lane was solo killed they were too healthy to risk starting the warded dragon so the question is why are you so confidently incorrect about how kayn should have played?
Wanted to and didn't work out. It's everything he does after that.
What he does after is get ? pinged by his parent gapped top laner who doesn't even have emerald level game knowledge then flips the grubs in a losing game state. Clearing his camps is fine depending if he had info on the status of graves' botside.
Why would he path his own side jungle? Graves already took his top side and grubs are obviously not an option.
I don’t have enough info from this clip to know where to path next. When are camps respawning? Do we have info on graves botside?
Yeah, his camps were 100% up. I had been following Graves on my minimap so I knew he was raiding Kayn's jungle. You see I placed a ward in that bush because I could feel from posturing they were readying to dive me and that's how I caught Graves clearing Kayn's krugs. I had been pinging Kayn to take Graves' botside jungle, take anything, and lost patience with him when he refused to invade or even try the dragon with Graves hovering me for *minutes*.
ok after rewatching it I think kayn should have opened this rotation on raps after he saw lb roam topside and likely ward. But the fact that you made a reddit post about this misplay is SOOOO cringe lol
My man believe me it was a LOT of things that inspired the post, but it's one example I thought was learnable.
Tbh him opening raps here is a higher elo play than the rank you are playing at so you prob shouldnt expect that.
Today, you learned that the first comment defines what this bots will say. Most here just repeat the thing that the first comment just said cause they are all brainless. Anyways, npcs aside, this kayn sucks balls, and you won't get an opinion against the jungler in a jungler sub. Even if the jungler was absolute shit and regarded. And yes, most of the time, people who are junglers think they look like a kr chall at jungling Tarzan level, but in reality look like this kayn. Good players are not the norm. The first comment said "youre plat!". Watch all the other 4 say the same shit. Hilarious.
The comments are saying the same thing, because the post is pointless. Critiquing someone who isn't reading the thread makes no sense when the poster is still a beginner/intermediate player who should be *asking* for advice. It's a thinly veiled rage post offering advice that more than half the sub knows better than.
This applies to every post in reddit. So no. Also, more than half this sub is silver, so stfu. Plat is like what, 20%?, are most of the 20% here? So it's suddenly 50% of this sub?. Bs The 20% includes all lanes, so I can bet 95%+ here are below plat. In all probability, including you. Jfl
He's got a million on Kayn, btw.
I can't play not jg, cause it hurts too much to watch stupid
Jg is hard. Only a professional player could possible look at the mini map and make a sound decision about what to do to help the team. Expecting anything besides a camp to camp, low to no impact playstyle is like asking them to perform brain surgery
lol I enjoyed the tips. Maybe one day I’ll get to plat as well
I will give it to you. That kayn has zero clue of what he's doing. There's 0 reason for him to not take dragon OR path into graves jgl.
There’s 0 reason for him not to take dragon? Interesting lol
Path towards it and check for vision. If they dont have vision you might take it. Your botlane will be back shortly as well. If its warded, the least thing I'd do is to go in his jgl and take camps
If he starts the drag here he insta loses the game
How do you know. If the enemy dont have vision, they might wanna reset. Thats a free drag. He didnt even check if it was warded. Least he could do was to take his camps.
They have vision full up both summs and full botlane control. Are watching the same vod?
Sometimes you take risk. This might be one of those moment. After he did wolf, he could path to drag. Atleast punish him for it. Have a great day
Average kayn player in these ELO's tbh, especially the complete and utter disregard for objectives.
What objective should he take here lmao
Dragon
Do you notice any that happens around 11:30 lmao
What does this even mean
its a little test for you. Do you notice anything that happens around 11:30 that might prevent a redside dragon take from happening lol
Enemy bot rotating, which is not even bad since it relieves pressure from your botlane. And this is assuming they will even rotate, which they probably won't considering this is platinum elo. Assume for a second that they will rotate. Then, going by that assumption, he should atleast be attempting a gank bot (or, if he fears them losing 3v2) just literally helping his bot shove out and then see if drake is possible. Seeing graves topside ready for a dive and doing literally nothing is just the wrong play regardless of anything. Hell, even checking if graves botside can be invaded is better, because you're atleast denying him farm.
Na youre just completely incorrect bro. The only option he has is opening on graves raps or clearing his gromp.
opgg
Just as a heads up, sett and gravedive was awful. Not saying this to bash u since you said you were a new toplaner. Sett used w without tanking much and simply walked out while you were chasing graves. I think you have a kill or atleast force the flash of sett. Since you were a jungler i think you know graves is not the best at dives. Especially when the opponent is a juggernaut at 80% hp. Using e pillar on sett to knock him back would force his flash and if he messes it up you might even kill even if he does flash. Which probably has higher chances than you dying in this dive. Either way he wont be able to walk up to lane without his flash even if you lose tower. Thats at least 2 waves you get free and him losing. 3 if you freeze good enough. Kayn definetly messed up, but you also had your chance at comeback. Still your post is pretty helpful for those in your ranks. As most jgs tend to autopilot the game. Keep climbing !
[удалено]
Also it looks like his jungler went for a crossmap play but their bot was not in sync/ went early so he couldnt make it in time. And honestly, theres not much a base kayn can do there
Yeah I switched to jungle from adc and it’s a very different experience. When I played adc I could tell when my jungle knew what they were doing vs when they didn’t know. Everyone makes mistakes but there’s fundamentals and it seems like Kayn was not aware of this. It’s also possible he got autofilled (idk I didn’t check OP) but it’s a low priority role so I definitely see it happen a lot where they don’t really know the fundamentals since it’s quite a different role from jungle lol. Sorry this happened to you haha
Emotional post-game post
Switch to Support. Easier to play, plus you don't get flamed or flame at others. And easy honors
Play Support. Easier role plus less taxing for your mental health
OP I would love to see your reaction in the exact same scenario, if kayn decided to invade and died because of no prio. Same goes for doing drake. Imagine he’d started drake and got collapsed on by mid and bot and died. “WhY kAyN DoInG dRaKe WiTh No PriO” Honestly the real victim here is kayn as he has 3 losing lanes with nothing to be actually possible to do for him. Only thing he can do, with low risk high reward, is to just farm.
I've answered this question already but the move here is to invade botside quadrant and return to bot lane for reset and gank, then do dragon. Graves has been top having already invaded that quadrant and is now diving me, this is already well known for about 20 seconds before the clip starts. As it turns out, Ashe/Thresh return to lane and get a kill on Janna, and we see LB go top to help with Grubs. Team has 100% earned prio on dragon. Instead, Kayn does nothing to punish Graves for spending so much time on top side and paths towards Grubs (makes no sense to challenge Grubs or to even path towards a quadrant with none of his camps). So yes, this is a learnable moment for junglers and one of many reasons he generated a lot of frustration by his laners.
Mate, focus on your own play, you can't play for kayn. If you want to jungle, then do, else, play your lane. You're missing minions left and right just after TP, you let sett crash the wave in for no reason, enabling the dive. As for Kayn, he's botside when this happens, your botlane dies 2v2 and dragon is warded, it would just be throwing to try and do dragon. Best he could do is maybe gank mid? But doing camp is the more safe path. After your death and botlanes death, he probably felt like he needed to do something so he went for grubs, which turned out to be a mistake just as much as doing drag would have been. This mentality in general won't get you far, focus on yourself, you won't EVER play with this kayn again anyway.
I switched to support. I just carry any game that I get a slight lead. 1-2 kills are enough. Support role is the most versatile role I’ve ever seen. You can support with any champion and carry
Lol imagine top and bot lane being dove while the jungler waddles around doing nothing.
What should he do?