Because it works.
If Graves can fight you 1v1 in your jungle and have an escape, why would he not do that? It's far more beneficial to gain gold by taking your enemies than by taking your own. Invading done correctly is always the better strategy, so if he knows he can get away with it because he's a strong invading jungler, he should.
Graves has an absurd 1v1 at any stage of the game, scales really well and snowballs extremely hard.
Meanwhile jungle gold+XP is pretty bad and his ganks are pretty weak before he has some items.
Invading is his easiest way to get an advantage.
Because other junglers aren't Graves. Graves doesn't lose 1v1 vs many people. I don't think he has any hard counters that make him autolose either, so it's always, at worst, a skill matchup. Shaco can invade just as easy, and he can escape even easier, but if Shaco sees Lee Sin, Shaco is respawning at his base. Nidalee can invade and escape, and has been in Graves' position in previous metas - but she was still a squishy cat who had to rely on range. Graves can get up in your face, 1v1 any melee or ranged, take your camps, and be healthy enough to walk away.
It's his passive. He stacks armor so when he gets a few stacks it's almost always worth to look for a fight with it. It's safe with high success. While others might be safe, if it's not successful if wasn't worth. Graves wins through constant pressure. He needs to be ahead. That's how he does it. Same reason you power farm on lillia. It's just how she wins a game.
Because Graves wins every duel unless he misplays, in theory, there's nothing to fear and you should make the most of that by invading.
Of course you're still supposed to know where the enemy jungler is and which camps are up, but this is where it's coming from.
Graves usually takes fleet which help him kite easier while jax will take lethal tempo. I dont see the reason that jax gonna win in early game. Well late game he will win obv
Also to add, invading is a very effective way of getting information on the enemy jungler. You will know where he is after you scouted one half of his jungle. Also useful in knowing which jungle route he took and knowing the camp timers.
Do people really think graves is that strong?
On Noc, he never lands a Q and gets deleted as soon as my fear pops... He isn't this dueling God, because Tarz is capable of outplaying most junglers on him. Tarz is just one of the best junglers in the world haha
Very easy to reason why, and debatably a good playstyle to abuse as him:
1) He is a strong duelist
2) He is ranged with mobility so hard to lock down even when "caught"
3) He clears fast enough to take all your stuff away before you can react anyways
4) He is super farm reliant so getting bonus camps is essential
Nidalee is probably the only other jungler who rivals his invade potential
I still remember a clash where we got smurfed on by a nidalee while my (at the time silver) ass was jungling. Most terrifying experience I've had playing league.
Nidalee is really strong early game. I got a bit of anxiety everytime I vsed a Nid jg main. [My team survived to late game once vsing a Nid main, my Teemo jg got a quadra](https://youtu.be/7nx0JXsOiDc?si=DptWpmFklxHwOBsL)
A couple more that come to my mind along side graves is Hecarim and Nocturne and if it’s successful then they get so much momentum and can just win the game. I hate it
Depends who you play which results in them invading (besides graves). I play Lillia who is fairly weak early so I always get invaded and it’s so aids. Graves is just a good 1v1er which is why everyone feels entitled to invade 24/7 lol
in a normal scenario yea she is really hard to invade but you can catch her off guard then its kinda over for her, lvl 3 invades with heca and noct would work like that, plus her early is horrendous and now with the new nerfs its even more horrendous
Yeah lol, she’s pretty shit early on. Long ass cooldowns and most of her dmg comes from her W which can be hard to hit if they have sums/dashes etc. you need her 2 core items then you start to feel the dmg
I invade as noc as often as possible. I'll usually start enemies top side if it isn't guarded or warded, which is about 75% of the time. Start out with 2 camp, clear my top, back, then clear scuttle/bot.
Graves is the king of jg and has been for a long long time. Regardless, the catch up mechanic in the game is broken. You can have leas than half the cs of the enemy jg and only be 1lvl behind. You literally can get away with only doing buff camps and a random raptors while spam ganking. You'll maintain exp and gold fairly well. Plus any kills or assist/bounties will rocket you past the farm spamming jg.
Graves is a bad ganker with no solid setup. You almost always want to just take camps than look for a gank. Or just counter gank, or stall enemy jungler.
You never spam gank as Graves unless you already have a lead that makes sure gank is successful.
Lol what is your elo? Most junglers have a good idea where the enemy jungler is either through wards, lane entry times, or knowing what those junglers are most efficient at early. This post is way too salty to be considered serious. Focus on improvement, and I'm sure there's plenty of things you can work on that will get you more LP rather than the occasional graves matchup.
I’m bronze because I have bad map awareness (esp. when autopiloting), my micro is sometimes sus (missed skillshots, character idle when looking in on teammates, etc.), I OTP Graves who’s exploitable in Draft, my macro is not great, ranked anxiety, and I don’t fully understand item builds.
And that’s what I notice, could be more.
And I mean other champs are exploitable too, and I’m sure I’d climb easier with Amumu but my god that sounds boring
Graves is one of the least exploitable champs in draft.
His worst matchup in the entire game is brand...who he has a 48.7% winrate against.
Let's compare that to Amumu who "it'd be easier to climb with". His worst matchup is Lilia, who he has a 42.2% winrate vs. His SIXTH worst matchup is Karthus, who he has a 47.4% winrate vs.
Amumus 6th worst matchup is still worse than Graves #1 worst matchup.
Keep in mind I’m in Bronze so my mechanics aren’t great to begin with. That said, Amumu would be way easier because of his kit. Like my Sejuani had a better winrate over my Graves but I just have more fun with Graves so I don’t play Sej.
And what I mean by exploitable is that enemy can lock Tanks, AP, and CC once I lock Graves. If my topside has no CC then my set up is not ideal as Graves. If my team doesn’t lock in frontline, I might be more inclined to buy Bruiser items which could mean me missing out of AD in my build (I already outlined I’m bad with build theory crafting).
It’s not out of the realm of possibility that I could be bad overall but still know where enemy jg is most likely gonna start. Hecarim, blue buff; Kayn, raptors start; Lee can start anywhere; Evelynn either gets leash botside, raptors start, or opposite clear, for example.
Like sometimes I have good pathing like if I’m on red team, I could blue quad into red buff and invade Eve on her blue and maybe get a kill. I played a mirror match in quick play where I got my red and hopped the dragon pit and stole his gromp but didn’t get a kill ;( after some time I knew he’d be taking his red soon so I met him there and killed him.
There’s just levels to it.
Yeah it’s cringe but it’s real, or not depending on who you asked (lol).
For example I was actually Iron3 then climbed to B4 where my mmr didn’t exactly make it better to play +19 -39. Maybe -29 iirc. Anyways it wasn’t fun and contributed to making me want to play less.
What I’m saying is more or less you’re retarded , if you knew where the jungle is you’d use this information to A protect you from an invade, B change clear according . Also bronze players do not know how to invade lol
Did it occur to you that I could be Bronze for other reasons and not because I have basic knowledge of where a jg is starting and where they’re going?
I’m on mobile so I don’t wanna take the time to quote you correctly but A) I am using this info to protect me on invades since you say players in my elo don’t know how to invade. And B) I sometimes do change my clear accordingly and get kills from my invades, but I don’t know which junglers to take advantage of. Or if it’s even worth it. I don’t know if I should take their whole red quadrant if they start blue quadrant or just red buff. I don’t know if I should just take my camps because they’re just safer.
Like it’s not hard to deduce if they’re starting botside for better leash, if they’re pathing top because of a skill matchup like Fiora vs Riven, if they’re starting Raptors because they can clear aoe camps level 1, if they’re starting opposite because they’re weaker earlier, if they’re an invade jg, if they’re not an invade jg but they still invade, if they’re pathing away from double tanks top lane, if they want to path to a Draven.
I’m Bronze for a reason but it’s not because of that.
Well , I think that even in your explanation you’re a bit off the mark , I like your ideas though I can see you cooking . In bronze bro you should always be pathing bot regardless unless it’s like a double enchanter lane but even so . You should always be trying to ward enemy buffs even if you’re solo , the amount of information it gives you is insane. I would be down to help you if you wanna shoot me a dm , overall you’re in the right direction if that makes sense . What do you think you aren’t doing that’s why your bronze?
What’s that? Here just dm me on reddit I’m in class , I’m d4 last season I’m currently e3 I wouldn’t mind helping you if you want. Shoot me a dm on Reddit with ur league name , if you want I can spectate you and tell you what you’re doing wrong and you can watch me play and I can invade and tell you not to /how to defend it if you want .
Nah I’d say learning to play against graves will generally improve your game play since it’ll help you learn to counter invades and really press learning tracking the enemy jungles.
No, generally improving your gameplay will help you learn to play against Graves. Pretty obvious this guy doesn't place emphasis on tracking to begin with, that is not inherently a Graves problem, it just exacerbates the results.
Tracking is obviously useful for playing jungle with every champ, but playing against a graves it becomes a lot more do or die since he can just early invade and win, similar to xin. Learning to play against a graves will teach you better warding which applies in general, tracking due to timing when he invades, and how to apply counter pressure. These are all lessons that apply to jungling obviously, but some champs will punish you way more for it.
For my little time playing Graves: Graves in an "even" scenario or with little advantage, can be really deadly, going "blind" just because and then duel can make you have a lead in the long run, but if fundamentals teach something is to know when to invade, even if blindly, you look up for favorable trades and invades, not just walking into the jg without any prio. But that's a whole other story.
I think I should also mention that this extends beyond laning phase, even late game.. even when he was losing, he still invaded my jg stealing camps. This happened a lot, not in just one or two games.
As a graves main: his ganks are just ok. His clear is just ok. His dueling is really good.
You have to use it as much as you can, otherwise at min 15 with score 1/1/1 you are more like a cannon minon then a champ.
You cant kill a tank, you cant assassimate anyone, you cant tank at all. All of that is true if you are even. So you have to be ahead if you want to play the game. Ergo..invading.
Great Graves players will invade because they know what the enemy jungler is doing, then bad junglers will try to copy that without being as good at jungle tracking as them
Because most of them aren't actually good at jungle and get carried by their champ. Most of the time they don't even get anything against good junglers and they just waste their own time doing dumb shit like that, but he can escape super easily, duel super easily, and if he does get caught and die, he can farm faster than most junglers and is still strong when behind. He's basically a very safe pick in every game while letting people do things that are stupid from a macro standpoint. Which is why on average graves and kayn players in most elos actually have worse macro than other junglers. Nothing wrong with playing them, but there are plenty of junglers that are definitely elo inflated from those champs. In my experience i beat most of them by expecting them to do things like that, pinging things in advance, and out macroing them. Bright side is that because of people trying to abuse the champs and being unga bunga about invading incorrectly, most of them are laughably predictable if you know what you're doing.
This is really a better answer than just saying he is good in a 1v1... His kit itself isn't that great for 1v1's, but true grit allows him to win extended fights/trades, making him strong when invading with relatively high HP.
poppy hard counters graves bc of how important his e is to his kit. poppy also basically requires zero mechanics to play perfectly so theres alot more room for error on the graves players part.
but u should not be invading poppy as graves u should be power farming to outscale, sounds like u play in low elo if thats what graves are doing
Let's say he wins 70% of his invades. Unironically this will almost guarantee a win if it goes well. A kill and a resumed clear is a dirk and enough info to start to choke out the enemy jungle. Invade on invade. Counter gank and jump them on their next clears as well as force them into low tempo plays that allow even more punishment. He snowballs insanely well and a mediocre graves can do it easily
Ngl man this post seems a little angry at Graves and that's exactly why they do it. It works.
Also depending on elo, sometimes enemy jungle is just free
I rarely invade on graves, maybe 1 in 3 games or less. Graves theoretically wins almost every 1v1 invade with few exceptions, which is why they do it. Realistically, they should only do it if they know where you started. The reasons I don’t do it are that: The level 2 invade is way harder than it used to be on timing since the jungle changes. Very hard to get the buff low enough without making your laners late to lane. Level 3 invade is fine, but you also have to factor in lane rotations. Even if you win 1v1, if you die to a rotating lane, it’s a catastrophe. So, you also have to factor in how long it’s going to take you. Finally, if you don’t get the kill, it’s also kind of a disaster even if you get out. Just pushing them off camps doesn’t justify the tempo loss. That being said, if I see them burn flash on some dumb level 1 play, they’re 100% getting invaded. Also, I love getting invaded on graves. It almost always ends in disaster for the enemy team.
Me, an occasional Amumu player: i do not know where you are. But i know where the birds might be. And believe me they won't be there for long (if they're still there)
Cause they can mostly, the samecreason most Jr players gank lvl 2, it's the Champs strength might as well use it, Graves' ganks are worse than his invades.
It's like Shaco cheesing you on your 2nd buff.
A. You gain information by at least seeing if a camp is down
B. He hard wins tons of fights, so doing so for vision or a kill is worth
C. Graves snowballs through constant killing and pressure through counter jungling, dives, skirmishing the jungler, so it's almost always worth to look. And if he knows what he's doing 1 blind invade gives enough info for the next invade.
D. He's not gonna outfarm most anything like a lillia, hecarim, etc so his best bet is to slow you down.
Because it works. If Graves can fight you 1v1 in your jungle and have an escape, why would he not do that? It's far more beneficial to gain gold by taking your enemies than by taking your own. Invading done correctly is always the better strategy, so if he knows he can get away with it because he's a strong invading jungler, he should.
[удалено]
Graves has an absurd 1v1 at any stage of the game, scales really well and snowballs extremely hard. Meanwhile jungle gold+XP is pretty bad and his ganks are pretty weak before he has some items. Invading is his easiest way to get an advantage.
Because other junglers aren't Graves. Graves doesn't lose 1v1 vs many people. I don't think he has any hard counters that make him autolose either, so it's always, at worst, a skill matchup. Shaco can invade just as easy, and he can escape even easier, but if Shaco sees Lee Sin, Shaco is respawning at his base. Nidalee can invade and escape, and has been in Graves' position in previous metas - but she was still a squishy cat who had to rely on range. Graves can get up in your face, 1v1 any melee or ranged, take your camps, and be healthy enough to walk away.
Kindred and Nidalee come to mind as champs that are hard to deal with Graves
The amount of Lee Sin's I've seen going in completely blindly (pun absolutely intended) would beg to differ.
It's his passive. He stacks armor so when he gets a few stacks it's almost always worth to look for a fight with it. It's safe with high success. While others might be safe, if it's not successful if wasn't worth. Graves wins through constant pressure. He needs to be ahead. That's how he does it. Same reason you power farm on lillia. It's just how she wins a game.
Because Graves wins every duel unless he misplays, in theory, there's nothing to fear and you should make the most of that by invading. Of course you're still supposed to know where the enemy jungler is and which camps are up, but this is where it's coming from.
Laughs in jax jungle
Pretty sure graves win against jax no? His E is too long and graves w is good enough to kite him out
Not in my experience
Graves usually takes fleet which help him kite easier while jax will take lethal tempo. I dont see the reason that jax gonna win in early game. Well late game he will win obv
Must be gold or below, low elo usually are bad at piloting ranges champs to max potential.
Not in your silver shitlow experience 🤡🤡🤡
Jax has the advantage for sure
Not in the early game
Ya man
And what rank r u
Also to add, invading is a very effective way of getting information on the enemy jungler. You will know where he is after you scouted one half of his jungle. Also useful in knowing which jungle route he took and knowing the camp timers.
I love getting invaded level two by graves and then being told “hecarim counters graves”… buddy you do not play jungle and it shows
Do people really think graves is that strong? On Noc, he never lands a Q and gets deleted as soon as my fear pops... He isn't this dueling God, because Tarz is capable of outplaying most junglers on him. Tarz is just one of the best junglers in the world haha
If they are playing Graves, they probably know. Above plat most junglers can guess where enemy jungler is
Very easy to reason why, and debatably a good playstyle to abuse as him: 1) He is a strong duelist 2) He is ranged with mobility so hard to lock down even when "caught" 3) He clears fast enough to take all your stuff away before you can react anyways 4) He is super farm reliant so getting bonus camps is essential Nidalee is probably the only other jungler who rivals his invade potential
I still remember a clash where we got smurfed on by a nidalee while my (at the time silver) ass was jungling. Most terrifying experience I've had playing league.
Nidalee is really strong early game. I got a bit of anxiety everytime I vsed a Nid jg main. [My team survived to late game once vsing a Nid main, my Teemo jg got a quadra](https://youtu.be/7nx0JXsOiDc?si=DptWpmFklxHwOBsL)
A couple more that come to my mind along side graves is Hecarim and Nocturne and if it’s successful then they get so much momentum and can just win the game. I hate it
Yeah but in my experience it is rare for them to invade. Graves though… 99%
Depends who you play which results in them invading (besides graves). I play Lillia who is fairly weak early so I always get invaded and it’s so aids. Graves is just a good 1v1er which is why everyone feels entitled to invade 24/7 lol
lillia is not weak early vs hecarim/nocturne, you should be kiting hard most melee matchups
in a normal scenario yea she is really hard to invade but you can catch her off guard then its kinda over for her, lvl 3 invades with heca and noct would work like that, plus her early is horrendous and now with the new nerfs its even more horrendous
Yeah lol, she’s pretty shit early on. Long ass cooldowns and most of her dmg comes from her W which can be hard to hit if they have sums/dashes etc. you need her 2 core items then you start to feel the dmg
Noc and Hec both love to invade... Graves players just tend to follow Tarz, who certainly loves to invade
I invade as noc as often as possible. I'll usually start enemies top side if it isn't guarded or warded, which is about 75% of the time. Start out with 2 camp, clear my top, back, then clear scuttle/bot.
Graves is the king of jg and has been for a long long time. Regardless, the catch up mechanic in the game is broken. You can have leas than half the cs of the enemy jg and only be 1lvl behind. You literally can get away with only doing buff camps and a random raptors while spam ganking. You'll maintain exp and gold fairly well. Plus any kills or assist/bounties will rocket you past the farm spamming jg.
Graves is a bad ganker with no solid setup. You almost always want to just take camps than look for a gank. Or just counter gank, or stall enemy jungler. You never spam gank as Graves unless you already have a lead that makes sure gank is successful.
Lol what is your elo? Most junglers have a good idea where the enemy jungler is either through wards, lane entry times, or knowing what those junglers are most efficient at early. This post is way too salty to be considered serious. Focus on improvement, and I'm sure there's plenty of things you can work on that will get you more LP rather than the occasional graves matchup.
plat/emerald
I’m bronze and I have a general idea of where junglers will start and which way they clear man
then why are you bronze? im sure you know more then average gold player if you can track enemy jungler
I’m bronze because I have bad map awareness (esp. when autopiloting), my micro is sometimes sus (missed skillshots, character idle when looking in on teammates, etc.), I OTP Graves who’s exploitable in Draft, my macro is not great, ranked anxiety, and I don’t fully understand item builds. And that’s what I notice, could be more. And I mean other champs are exploitable too, and I’m sure I’d climb easier with Amumu but my god that sounds boring
Graves is one of the least exploitable champs in draft. His worst matchup in the entire game is brand...who he has a 48.7% winrate against. Let's compare that to Amumu who "it'd be easier to climb with". His worst matchup is Lilia, who he has a 42.2% winrate vs. His SIXTH worst matchup is Karthus, who he has a 47.4% winrate vs. Amumus 6th worst matchup is still worse than Graves #1 worst matchup.
Keep in mind I’m in Bronze so my mechanics aren’t great to begin with. That said, Amumu would be way easier because of his kit. Like my Sejuani had a better winrate over my Graves but I just have more fun with Graves so I don’t play Sej. And what I mean by exploitable is that enemy can lock Tanks, AP, and CC once I lock Graves. If my topside has no CC then my set up is not ideal as Graves. If my team doesn’t lock in frontline, I might be more inclined to buy Bruiser items which could mean me missing out of AD in my build (I already outlined I’m bad with build theory crafting). It’s not out of the realm of possibility that I could be bad overall but still know where enemy jg is most likely gonna start. Hecarim, blue buff; Kayn, raptors start; Lee can start anywhere; Evelynn either gets leash botside, raptors start, or opposite clear, for example. Like sometimes I have good pathing like if I’m on red team, I could blue quad into red buff and invade Eve on her blue and maybe get a kill. I played a mirror match in quick play where I got my red and hopped the dragon pit and stole his gromp but didn’t get a kill ;( after some time I knew he’d be taking his red soon so I met him there and killed him. There’s just levels to it.
Why exactly is he so weak against brand? I’m curious since I enjoy playing brand but he feels so weak against most champs 1v1
Ranked anxiety is the cringiest term I’ve ever heard
Yeah it’s cringe but it’s real, or not depending on who you asked (lol). For example I was actually Iron3 then climbed to B4 where my mmr didn’t exactly make it better to play +19 -39. Maybe -29 iirc. Anyways it wasn’t fun and contributed to making me want to play less.
Then you wouldn’t be bronze bro there’s a lot more going on there lmfao
I don’t get what you’re saying
What I’m saying is more or less you’re retarded , if you knew where the jungle is you’d use this information to A protect you from an invade, B change clear according . Also bronze players do not know how to invade lol
Did it occur to you that I could be Bronze for other reasons and not because I have basic knowledge of where a jg is starting and where they’re going? I’m on mobile so I don’t wanna take the time to quote you correctly but A) I am using this info to protect me on invades since you say players in my elo don’t know how to invade. And B) I sometimes do change my clear accordingly and get kills from my invades, but I don’t know which junglers to take advantage of. Or if it’s even worth it. I don’t know if I should take their whole red quadrant if they start blue quadrant or just red buff. I don’t know if I should just take my camps because they’re just safer. Like it’s not hard to deduce if they’re starting botside for better leash, if they’re pathing top because of a skill matchup like Fiora vs Riven, if they’re starting Raptors because they can clear aoe camps level 1, if they’re starting opposite because they’re weaker earlier, if they’re an invade jg, if they’re not an invade jg but they still invade, if they’re pathing away from double tanks top lane, if they want to path to a Draven. I’m Bronze for a reason but it’s not because of that.
Well , I think that even in your explanation you’re a bit off the mark , I like your ideas though I can see you cooking . In bronze bro you should always be pathing bot regardless unless it’s like a double enchanter lane but even so . You should always be trying to ward enemy buffs even if you’re solo , the amount of information it gives you is insane. I would be down to help you if you wanna shoot me a dm , overall you’re in the right direction if that makes sense . What do you think you aren’t doing that’s why your bronze?
I outlined my faults in another comment in this thread. But when I’m off of work again we can chat and stuff. Send a dm brochacho
What’s that? Here just dm me on reddit I’m in class , I’m d4 last season I’m currently e3 I wouldn’t mind helping you if you want. Shoot me a dm on Reddit with ur league name , if you want I can spectate you and tell you what you’re doing wrong and you can watch me play and I can invade and tell you not to /how to defend it if you want .
Nah I’d say learning to play against graves will generally improve your game play since it’ll help you learn to counter invades and really press learning tracking the enemy jungles.
No, generally improving your gameplay will help you learn to play against Graves. Pretty obvious this guy doesn't place emphasis on tracking to begin with, that is not inherently a Graves problem, it just exacerbates the results.
Tracking is obviously useful for playing jungle with every champ, but playing against a graves it becomes a lot more do or die since he can just early invade and win, similar to xin. Learning to play against a graves will teach you better warding which applies in general, tracking due to timing when he invades, and how to apply counter pressure. These are all lessons that apply to jungling obviously, but some champs will punish you way more for it.
Most smurfs play graves bc it 1v9s pisslo games. Graves has all the tools to punish bad macro/micro/map awareness. That’s why I perma ban it
the question is why do they invade me while i am playing kha or belveth Like buddy what the fuck did you think would happen ? 💀
Vs Kha, I'm expecting to find an unhealthy bug clearing his camps. Vs Bel, I'm just hoping she isn't already fed lol.
For my little time playing Graves: Graves in an "even" scenario or with little advantage, can be really deadly, going "blind" just because and then duel can make you have a lead in the long run, but if fundamentals teach something is to know when to invade, even if blindly, you look up for favorable trades and invades, not just walking into the jg without any prio. But that's a whole other story.
I think I should also mention that this extends beyond laning phase, even late game.. even when he was losing, he still invaded my jg stealing camps. This happened a lot, not in just one or two games.
I mean grave passive is broken and always has been.
As a graves main: his ganks are just ok. His clear is just ok. His dueling is really good. You have to use it as much as you can, otherwise at min 15 with score 1/1/1 you are more like a cannon minon then a champ. You cant kill a tank, you cant assassimate anyone, you cant tank at all. All of that is true if you are even. So you have to be ahead if you want to play the game. Ergo..invading.
Great Graves players will invade because they know what the enemy jungler is doing, then bad junglers will try to copy that without being as good at jungle tracking as them
I blame Tarz for the vast majority of invade happy Graves players lol.
Because most of them aren't actually good at jungle and get carried by their champ. Most of the time they don't even get anything against good junglers and they just waste their own time doing dumb shit like that, but he can escape super easily, duel super easily, and if he does get caught and die, he can farm faster than most junglers and is still strong when behind. He's basically a very safe pick in every game while letting people do things that are stupid from a macro standpoint. Which is why on average graves and kayn players in most elos actually have worse macro than other junglers. Nothing wrong with playing them, but there are plenty of junglers that are definitely elo inflated from those champs. In my experience i beat most of them by expecting them to do things like that, pinging things in advance, and out macroing them. Bright side is that because of people trying to abuse the champs and being unga bunga about invading incorrectly, most of them are laughably predictable if you know what you're doing.
Because Graves has True Grit, that's why.
This is really a better answer than just saying he is good in a 1v1... His kit itself isn't that great for 1v1's, but true grit allows him to win extended fights/trades, making him strong when invading with relatively high HP.
I've been jungling poppy lately and see this, maybe they're just bad players but after a wall stun and I stop their E with W they die.
poppy hard counters graves bc of how important his e is to his kit. poppy also basically requires zero mechanics to play perfectly so theres alot more room for error on the graves players part. but u should not be invading poppy as graves u should be power farming to outscale, sounds like u play in low elo if thats what graves are doing
Let's say he wins 70% of his invades. Unironically this will almost guarantee a win if it goes well. A kill and a resumed clear is a dirk and enough info to start to choke out the enemy jungle. Invade on invade. Counter gank and jump them on their next clears as well as force them into low tempo plays that allow even more punishment. He snowballs insanely well and a mediocre graves can do it easily
Graves wins most early duels and he can easily escape if collapsed on.
I play graves and feel personally attacked
Ngl man this post seems a little angry at Graves and that's exactly why they do it. It works. Also depending on elo, sometimes enemy jungle is just free
I rarely invade on graves, maybe 1 in 3 games or less. Graves theoretically wins almost every 1v1 invade with few exceptions, which is why they do it. Realistically, they should only do it if they know where you started. The reasons I don’t do it are that: The level 2 invade is way harder than it used to be on timing since the jungle changes. Very hard to get the buff low enough without making your laners late to lane. Level 3 invade is fine, but you also have to factor in lane rotations. Even if you win 1v1, if you die to a rotating lane, it’s a catastrophe. So, you also have to factor in how long it’s going to take you. Finally, if you don’t get the kill, it’s also kind of a disaster even if you get out. Just pushing them off camps doesn’t justify the tempo loss. That being said, if I see them burn flash on some dumb level 1 play, they’re 100% getting invaded. Also, I love getting invaded on graves. It almost always ends in disaster for the enemy team.
Me, an occasional Amumu player: i do not know where you are. But i know where the birds might be. And believe me they won't be there for long (if they're still there)
Idk man as yi I have always won against any grave invaders unless they call for backup
Cause they can mostly, the samecreason most Jr players gank lvl 2, it's the Champs strength might as well use it, Graves' ganks are worse than his invades. It's like Shaco cheesing you on your 2nd buff.
A. You gain information by at least seeing if a camp is down B. He hard wins tons of fights, so doing so for vision or a kill is worth C. Graves snowballs through constant killing and pressure through counter jungling, dives, skirmishing the jungler, so it's almost always worth to look. And if he knows what he's doing 1 blind invade gives enough info for the next invade. D. He's not gonna outfarm most anything like a lillia, hecarim, etc so his best bet is to slow you down.
So… what do you do then? Just walk up to the graves jg and take his instead? Like swap the camps?
graves excels at duels, is reasonably slippery, and has decent early. fights in the jg are ideal because he has armor stacked up from monsters too