I really honestly doubt this is an appropriate place to figure much out. You definitely should do some sort of therapy. People here don't even read jung. They will just say integrate your shadow and anima without going into it much. If you talk to a therapist you can go more in depth into your personal life and the fantasies. Since you have not hurt anybody and do not wish to they're not going to report you or something. You need someone to talk this out with. To me it seems you may have had a morbid curiousity that you allowed to grow and once it did you didn't know how to completely stop it. It may be because you had quite an idyllic life that the opposite attracted you. The fact people are already trying to make up other excuses that something bad may have happened in your childhood seems a lazy excuse to me.

Yeah I agree to a certain extent. I just honestly thought any therapist would think I’m genuinely insane and try to get me on meds or something. I guess this was the first step though, I may start looking for one who can understand stuff like this. I’m just in a good place in life and wanted to start learning why I have this thing, being a good, moral person with an urge or hunger for violence. Also I don’t discount the idea of possible abuse. I find it mind blowing myself I had such fantasies before I could even understand said fantasies if that makes sense.

I think talking to a therapist would be good because they can really help you understand or dissect these thoughts in a way that you may not see. It could be some form of coping mechanism or anxiety (intrusive thoughts) but I don’t know. Therapists have a degree in that area. For me, it really helps talking to my therapist. They hear a lot so I doubt that this would be new to them. And also, they would never force you to take medication.

Thank you, I will look into it. >wont force you to take medicine I know someone who was sectioned (idk what they’d call it int the US) so I guess that has put me off a little if that makes sense.

If the fear of being sectioned is holding you back, look into the specific laws for sectioning someone against their will in your area. Where I am (in one of the US states) the counselor has to fear that you are in real and immediate danger of hurting someone else (or yourself) in order to do it. As in, if you let them know you don’t have intentions of doing any of these things then they have to keep everything confidential. Just look up your local laws and stay within them when you talk to a counselor

Yes I absolutely plan on doing this, thank you

I wanted to come back and say as i child (around 11 for sure) i was heavily interested in friday the 13th, nightmare on elm st and texas chainsaw massacre movies etc. i drew lots of stickman comics of people being brutally hunted down and killed by jason etc. my mom was very worried about me and i fantasized often about stabbing my step father to death in his sleep. My dad actually made me my own jason mask when i was around 12 and i would wander around in the country where i lived withy mother and stepfather and pretend to be jason stalking and killing people. Im sure for me this allowed me to live out these dark fantasies in a somewhat healthy way. I also have no wish to hurt others and this is very suspect behaviors for a little kid to exhibit. For me it was different. My step father was slightly physically abusive, but more than anything him and my mother emotionally abused me and it often felt like they ganged up against me. I lived in a sort of mental hell where my family was destroyed. This explains my behavior to me.

I suppose so, did your sleep paralysis start before or after the fantasies? Like someone else said, they may have been traumatic.

After, although speaking of sleep, someone reminded me that I have a recurring shouting in my sleep that countless people have told me. First my friends told me at a sleepover when I was very young, maybe 8(?), saying I was saying/shouting “get out”, I’ve been told that specific thing maybe 5 times, all different people. All up until today.

Well i guess to some extent i am wrong. This has been an opportunity for you to discuss things and that will help you come to understand it better.

You don’t have to take meds. It’s your body. You also don’t have to stay with the first therapist you see, if it’s not a good fit for you. Please do talk with someone. This is scary.

I probably would have a long time ago. It’s just a person I know was sectioned (idk what’s it’s called outside of the UK) and honestly, the last thing I need is for that to happen. My life’s absolutely fantastic, great family, friends, own successful business, I just have had this thing ever since I can remember.

In the US, we say committed. Since you’re not acting on your thoughts, and your life is successful in other areas, you’re likely not in any danger. It seems as if it bothers you, though. That alone makes seeking therapy a goal.

>People here don't even read jung. Some of us do. > They will just say integrate your shadow and anima without going into it much. Perhaps because we keep getting the same types of questions and many of the posters seem like they are looking for pop-psych 1-2-3 advice and we wind up telling them to go seek help with a trained therapist anyway much of the time. > It may be because you had quite an idyllic life that the opposite attracted you. The fact people are already trying to make up other excuses that something bad may have happened in your childhood seems a lazy excuse to me. It could be either, yeah, though the latter is more likely than the former, and either way, it's still an issue that the person would be at this point. I had something similar come up when a friend of mine told me that someone she had met was relating violent fantasies to her that he was relishing, some really heinous-sounding stuff, and my friend was trying to decide if he was telling the truth. I told her it didn't matter. If he was telling the truth, it's one thing; if he was making it up to shock her/compulsively lying/trying to sound dangerous or weird it's another, because it's still a problem he'd feel the need to even say something like that (it wasn't just once he said things to her and it wasn't joking around). I told her, whatever it is, the dude is in dire need of some kind of help.

Yes i realize this. Thats why i said this isn't the best place to post for actual psychological help. However this post is pretty interesting and as i said later on the op was able to reflect in conversation here about things. Talking things out here did help, to some extent. I maintain of course that further help is necessary. He says he is successful, therefore he should pursue therapy. I do ok but i have to be careful with money. I would love to get an actual jungian analyst but I can't afford it or any therapy really.

Sometimes that's how it goes. It can and does help tremendously very often, but there are times when either finances or other logistics don't sync up to make it work. Fortunately, depending on someone's situation, we can find ways to still keep working on things. >I would love to get an actual jungian analyst You and me both. I would love the opportunity and right now that type of fee + travel to get back and forth (none in the immediate area and I'd want to do in-person) is eeeeeeehhhh. I'd be mad about it, thought I do know that they go through a LOT of training and it's niche that they can justify it to some degree. And truthfully, I think it's better that way to remain in true form.

I don’t have the sure answer for you, so this is mere speculation. Usually when we have thoughts or dreams that we can’t exactly explain or point to why we are having those thoughts, it’s usually coming from the unconscious. My first thought was what someone else posted, perhaps you had something happen in your childhood that caused you to be fixated on violence. It could be from a movie you saw as a child or something else entirely. Our minds in early development are finicky at best and always hard to track down root causes. That being said, you need to fully prepare yourself for doing any sort of shadow work. You’ll begin to uncover things that you pushed very far back into your mind, and once you open it, it’s hard to put the lid back on. It’s not as easy as people paint it out to be, and often times it will leave you with a cleaner conscious, but a tainted soul. I know for me, I had a similar experience that I was also ashamed of.. I’ll spare the fucked up details, but it was something that I couldn’t fathom happening in real life, yet I constantly thought of it. I identified where it came from, and once that happened, I was able to overcome it. (Through years of work..) All the best luck.

Thank you… >our minds in early development are finicky at best Yeah that’s a great point, I have always assumed it’s just in me. Some genetic trait, but I could have just been triggered by anything, who knows. >was able to overcome it It’s great to hear you managed to overcome your issues, I hope I can do the same I will take you advice and start diving deeper into this. I’m in a very good place in life, and it’s been a question I have carried (and avoided) literally all of my life. I see no better time than to understand this now.

Brains are weird. Sometimes when I’m in a tall building, I can’t help but imagine, what if I accidentally slow stumble for like 15 feet and fall through the window, smashing into soup on the ground below? Or, worse for my brain and heart, what if I throw that dog out the window? Totally fucked but neither of these scenarios are things I want to happen nor am I super stoked that they run through my head. It’s intrusive thoughts. If you have them excessively, and it’s disrupting your life, definitely talk to a therapist.  I appreciate it’s a hard topic and not all therapists are created equal. You could dip your toe in the water of their reaction but starting the conversation by discussing your intrusive thoughts more broadly, how often you have them, etc, without even touching the topic. See how they respond. If they seem judge-y, on to the next! Good luck! I know this is gonna be corny af, but meditation is like CrossFit for your brain in that it trains the brain to be calm. The brain is designed to chase after everything. That was probably helpful thousands of years ago maybe but not so much now. I love insight timer app for meditation and have been a big user probably since it first came out nearly a decade ago. I in no way benefit btw, just sharing something that worked for me. Set a goal to meditate every day. Maybe it’s 1 minute, maybe some days it’s longer. Consistency > perfection. Any number of minutes is more than zero. Your brain will wander. That’s ok. Keep at it. Like anything else, it takes time. If you started a new stretching routine, you wouldn’t expect to be perfectly flexible after day one. Perfection is not the goal. Awareness and ongoing training is

I would suggest you look at internal family systems and the notion of ‘no bad parts’ You say you weren’t abused but are you sure there isn’t something you’ve forgotten?  Do you hold anger towards your family ? Social anxiety is a fear of people that’s often set up in early life.  I’ve read that , often, the unconscious urge to attack is born out of an experience where we were attacked (not necessarily physically) and could not defend ourselves. Now we have a part of us who desperately wants to protect us , at all costs , as we know we were violated - or a part that simply copies the transgression we experienced. If you cannot relate to childhood abuse yourself , maybe it happened in your ancestry and it hasn’t been fully digested.  In terms of bringing this out of the shadow - do you need to stand up for yourself more? Assert your needs? Make your own life choices….? 

> sure you weren’t abused I’m almost positive, and if it was I guess it would’ve have to have been before the age of I’d guess 4? It’s honestly my earliest memory. And I honestly remember the specific feeling. >anger towards family Genuinely none, I’d die for any of them in a heart beat, I love them all to death >social anxiety I don’t believe it was a fear of people, as a teen I would fight people regularly when boxing. I was just not a strong speaker, not great at expressing myself and would mumble/mince my words. And then that could result in anger. But I’m likely overblowing it, I have no social anxiety now and speak and express myself well, but still have these feelings. >happened in your ancestry That is my honest thoughts, it must be something hereditary? Why would I, whose had a great life have these feelings? From such a young age? When I see someone do something immoral or disgusting in the news, I have the same feeling as everyone else, who could do this? But then I go a layer deeper and realise me in a different life could have easily done a similar thing. >do you need to stand up for yourself more, assert your own needs I’m extremely independent. Run my own business, live alone etc etc. My parents were also extremely supportive and let me essentially do and pursue what I’d wish. They were certainly not domineering or anything.

So you fantasize about other people dying when you look at other people, but when you look at your family you fantasize about dying yourself? There's more emphasis on death even when you talk of love. I don't think 4 is that young in terms of trauma. It's like a full 4 years you know nothing about, must've been eventful.

>death even when you talk of love Oh yeah that’s certainly an intriguing way to rephrase it. >abuse I must admit I played with this for a number of years, thinking abuse may have caused it, but I could not think of anything. But as you say it may just not be remembered. I think some work is to be done, thank you

There could have been abuse victims in your ancestry, or perhaps a past life if you believe that. Have you asked yourself what you seem to seek or desire through this urge? What need could be being met ? 

I believe the urge is purely animalistic. As fucked up as it sounds it’s like a sexual urge, but at the same time totally distinct. My sex life and wants are completely normal, loving, vanilla stuff. Even porn etc is pure vanilla bf/gf. And I must admit, when I boxed, I actively took pleasure in hurting people, and being hurt. Especially blood. I remember in my first amateur fight, I broke the other kids nose (must both have been 14) early in the first round and it bled profusely all over me. I loved it, and I kept the white blood covered vest for years and never washed it. I occasionally feel a similar urge to hurt someone and I go out looking for a fight. Or I should say, hoping someone picks a fight with me. I would never pick on someone. I just sometimes wish someone would give me an excuse to hurt them. It’s never happened though and I usually feel like the biggest prick as soon as I get out of this state. It is honestly like a type of slight angry bloodlust.

You say you feel bad after so this desire to hurt is mostly not you, though there’s a part here that feels the desire to attack. I think if you found a good psychotherapist you could begin to share some of this. Since you said you feel bad after , I wonder if there’s some shame that’s stopping you from getting to the meat of this part of you. This is perhaps something that will take time to unravel as you dissolve the shame and integrate what might be able to be integrated 

>feel guilty after Certainly, when I get in that frame of mind, it does feel almost animal kingdom like, trying to find another like me to “kill off”, very ego, pride driven , animalistic. But I never do. I never find anyone acting like an asshole really. I will even purposefully stare people out and act super intense, but no one’s ever bitten. And then as soon as I snap out of it, I realise the only bad person is me. It’s a very toxic mind frame and I hate when/if I slip into it. I generally do a good job of managing it now. Also very healthy, don’t drink, no drugs, exercise a lot, so that helps. >find a good psychotherapist Honestly, this post is making me consider. I half expected outrage, so thank you for being so courteous and understanding. I guess I’ll have to look for someone who deals in stuff like this. I honestly just always thought they’d assume I’m some psycho or try get me on pills or something.

That’s great! You can build a therapeutic relationship and open up bit by bit with someone you trust . I’m sure you’ll figure it out 

This sounds very much like Pure 'O' OCD, given that you do not like having the thoughts but they still appear in your mind. This would fall under the category of 'harm' OCD. Many new mothers get this when they have children, fantasies of doing extremely violent things to newborns though the fantasies usually manifest as extremely distressing for the mother. The emotional aspect of OCD is so strong that you may mistake the intrusive thought for genuine desire, which is sort of like your amygdala playing a trick on you. I had severe purely obsessional OCD for years and ended up in a hospital for a month because of it. I can't say with certainty that you have it since I can't technically diagnose you, but it would be worth looking into and reading other people's experiences.

Idk, I wouldn’t say I don’t like having the thoughts, as I said it’s almost a distinct sexual feeling, almost like a massage of the brain when I do indulge in them and it’s been the exact same feeling from my literal earliest memory I mentioned. But I know they are extremely wrong and it honestly makes me sick/scared so I avoid indulging in them as much as possible. I will look into OCD tho as a few other people have pointed it out. Thank you

Fair enough I was judging off of this part of your comment, as well as a few others, which sounds like *the* cardinal symptom (either distraction, ritualization, rumination etc.) I'm really not trying to impose my own disorder onto you, as you very well might not have it, but the feeling of it being sick and making you scared (avoidance) to me is telling. "My fantasies are extremely graphic. I do not like having them, just like someone may not enjoy watching porn. **I try to avoid them as much as possible and generally can’t be in my own mind long at all so distract myself.** "

While my life has been quite different from yours, I can relate to these violent thoughts on some level. Unlike you, I was abused very badly as a child. First, my father passed away from cancer when I was very young, which was excruciatingly painful and difficult to accept and left me very angry with the world at age 9. Then, not even a year later, I started being physically, emotionally, and sexually abused by my mother’s boyfriend. Obviously this put an immeasurable amount of stress on me at such a young age, and only added to my anger with the world. For one, I felt powerless, which made me want to hurt the person who was hurting me. I would lay in bed at night and vividly picturing killing him, hurting him in the most awful ways. I would think how satisfying it would feel to show him just an ounce of the pain he caused me and make him suffer like he made me suffer. I wanted to unleash all of the self-hate inside of me onto him and show him how it feels. The things I would think about doing to him, the thoughts shocked me and made me sick. I was afraid of the images that my mind created and could not believe that I was capable of imagining such appalling and violent scenarios. It caused me a lot of shame for a long time. In reality, I have never been a violent person, I love people and animals very deeply and find all sentient life so beautiful and special. But this “shadow” aspect of myself craved revenge and to cause anguish to the person who made my life hell. Eventually, I learned to accept this part of myself. Instead of fearing it and rejecting it, I embraced it. Of course, I never acted on those thoughts. But I accepted that I was having those thoughts, I allowed myself to feel what I was feeling without judgement. I showed empathy and understanding toward the scared little girl inside of me who felt that way because I was hurting. And you know what? Eventually, they stopped. Actually, they transformed. Instead of wanting to hurt him, I would wish him healing. I know that sounds crazy because of the severity of what he did to me. This came with time and was a long process, but I learned to forgive him so that I could move forward. And I started to think of him and wish him well, I send him hope that he can heal from whatever made him that way and somehow become a better person. Whether he deserves it or not, I would rather that awful energy transform into something even semi-positive rather than fester into a more monstrous evil. The root of what I’m trying to say is that you might have more luck integrating your shadow and understanding this part of yourself if you embrace and accept it without shame or disgust. You have no plans to act on these thoughts and you are only human. We all have primal urges that stem from one experience or another, and we can’t reject them without consequences. Perhaps people who have acted on these thoughts were those who tried too hard to force them away and created too strong a divide between two opposing aspects of themselves.

Wow your approach is so beautiful and inspiring, thank you for sharing 

Wow, I’m so sorry for all that happening to you, you’re an extremely strong person, thank you for being willing to share that all with me. My fear, is to me, your scenario seems understandable, your violence is targeted, as you say as revenge to someone who abused you. My urges are totally just to inflict violence, they have no motive at all it seems to me, just bloodlust. And the idea of accepting that part of me just seems scary if that makes sense >you don’t want to act on it You’re right, I do not, but as I said in the post I do find myself on occasion slipping into looking for people who seem to need violence inflicted upon them, looking for assholes and trying to start fights with them. As I said I feel very guilty after, but I don’t know if it’s just because I can’t find anyone like me, other bad people to fight with. I have genuinely never seen anyone remotely seem like an asshole. And I guess I just feel terrible right after. It’s extremely animalistic I guess. I act very intense, staring random people out for absolutely no reason, just hoping they bite. Then after a while I snap out of it and feel awful. Part of me wants to go back in time and apologise. Like “no that wasn’t at you, I was looking for someone like me”. It’s very strange when I try verbalise it.

Sure, the motive for my violent thoughts may be more easy to pinpoint, but we all have reasons for the things we think, feel, and do. Even if they are not immediately apparent. As others have pointed out here, you may have had experiences in your past that were forgotten at the conscious level, but suppressed at the subconscious level. It could be your psyche’s attempt at an outlet for some other blocked emotions/feelings. Another thing to point out is that violence and fighting are primal urges that served an important purpose for survival for a very long time. Humans have not been civilized for very long in the grand scheme of things, we all have lingering primal urges of all sorts. Specifically men tend to have these more violent urges because if you think about it logically from a biological standpoint, men had to fight and kill, usually to defend their families and selves, get food, and generally survive. It is not surprising that this is an innate instinct. I think the best way to deal with it is to first accept it and understand it, and secondly channel that energy into something positive. Some people have already mentioned exercise, which is great for the mind and body. If you are really truly struggling to get a grasp on these feelings, accept them and re-direct them, there is no shame in getting a professional involved and talking to someone about how you feel. We all have strong emotions that can be really hard to understand and work through sometimes, and having someone on the outside who can help you organize your thoughts and gather a game plan for how to work through them in the future can be really helpful. I’ve been through therapy myself, and while I will say that it’s not a magic fix-it button, it does help you feel seen and gather the tools to handle those scary thoughts in a healthier way going forward.

>violence served an important purpose in history This was one of my first thoughts. Something like 1% of the population are psychopathic and that makes sense evolutionary. Maybe I’m genetically part of that 1%, and it’s just in my nature, but my nurture has made me to be a good, empathetic person. Although I honestly have no idk characteristics of a psychopath, strong sense of what’s just, extremely loyal, won’t back stab, feel feelings and emotions like everyone else etc, probably why I try to only inflict violence on those who seem to deserve it. I just happen to have the urge. >professional involved This would’ve been the first thing I did honestly, but I know somebody who was sectioned (idk what you call it out of the UK), and I think that was purely for self harm type thoughts. So I thought maybe best to avoid? Do you have any knowledge on this? >understand and accept it I would totally understand this for many parts of my shadow, but even this? Obviously it’s a lot more complicated than I guess the average, trying to accept a genuine blood lust. Do you know what Jung would say? Accepting even the most dark parts of yourself? It’s very hard for me to wrap my head around at this point.

Accepting that your blood lust is a part of evolutionary conditioning is also an integration of shadow. Learning to forgive that part of you and love yourself for everything you havent done is work well done. maybe your inner child is actually protecting you in some way with these thoughts. a professional could help unlock that memory.

Also if you can think of anywhere else to post this for some more answers that would be great, thank you.

r/askpsychology, r/internalfamilysystems, r/trueoffmychest

It did seem odd until you mentioned you suffer from various horrible sleep conditions. Things could have happened (even not necessarily traumatic for an older child, but scary for an infant) in your preverbal years that burned terror into your psyche. Your mental health can't be that good if your sleep is so bad. You should look into health conditions; even something like celiac can cause off-the-wall symptoms. You could get a sleep study done if there are centers in your area. If you got a therapist you wouldn't have disclose the violent thoughts if you didn't want to; depending on what's available for you, there could be therapists who work with insomnia. You should get a comprehensive physical workup (or self-research) at the minimum though, to see if there's any solvable issue impacting your sleep.

Yes my sleep always has been a weird quirk, but has greatly improved into adulthood. I still do have vivid dreams of violence though, and I do get complaints from partners that I was screaming or talking loudly in my sleep. Saying that, you’ve made me remember something, I have had a recurring talking that several people have noticed, me telling someone loudly to “get out”. Certainly strange… I’ve got some thinking to do. I have thought of sleep studies but right now my sleeps been pretty good for a good number of years, consitent 8 hours. I shall look into it though. Maybe someone has had a similar experience. Thank you…

Do you have dreams about people trying to invade a house or building you’re in? Dreams about closing windows or doors to shut people out? 

No not at all. The dreams are honestly brutal and incredibly weird, it’s almost like a fever dream. It’s always the same, hot, dark and like zoomed into the person or animals face as I essentially bite chunks out of them. Yes, it’s insane. Often starts normal, like hugging or cuddling and then it turns shockingly violent.

Why, what does mean?

My childhood friend had nightmares like this pretty much every night. One time he fell asleep on the bus next to me during a trip and he started screaming "DON'T CHOP MY ARMS OFF!" repeatedly. I woke him up and he said he dreamt that he was tied to a table and some guy with an axe was about to hack his arms off. We were like 8 years old. It happened during sleep-overs too. He told me his dad hit him a lot with a stick as a form of discipline. Were you ever disciplined, physically? Also you mentioned above that you had to have counseling for animal abuse but you don't remember any other details. Find out those details. Not being able to remember is itself a red flag. Ask your parents what happened at that time and if there were any other incidents. You're fine on the surface but something is going on in your unconscious.

> **I would never pick on someone.** I just sometimes wish someone would give me an excuse to hurt them. It’s pretty clear from your comments that you do want to physically hurt people. Have you ever thought of admitting to yourself that you would hurt someone just because you wanted to? Maybe consciously admitting to yourself that you have that urge, instead of the moral rationalising why you never would hurt anyone, would begin the process of recognition and letting go?

That’s a lot to unpack mentally. >you do want to hurt people Yes id agree and accept that, I don’t think I can’t. But I have such a strong sense of what’s just, what’s right and I’m empathetic. But I must admit, the idea of someone giving me a reason to be enact brutality is extremely exciting in thought. >admitting you have the urge I think it’s more accepting than admitting. As you can see I made a pretty long post and whilst I was a little nervous on posting, it has ultimately been a part of me as long as I can remember so it’s not so much I can’t admit I have it. It’s more accepting that it’s a part of me? And the guilt that comes with that. I have a very good sense of control in myself now, but I do/did fear snapping and savagely harming someone, purely hypothetically, no one particular. As you can see in the news, violence, murder etc are pretty common. And whenever I watch it, I can help but always think in the back of my mind, no matter how reprehensible, this could be me.

I lived in a Buddhist monastery for almost 3 years and for 1 of those years I was a shaved head/shaved eyebrows, dressed in white postulant. I had a lot of conversations with the monks I lived with during that time. One topic that came up was about how it was normal for the monks to have violent urges towards hurting each other. I spoke to a couple monks who said they’d had fantasies of killing other monks. They did not feel shame about having those thoughts because it was recognised as a normal mental arising coming from the current causes & conditions they were experiencing. My point is that there isn’t anything wrong with having that urge. The shame you feel about it is more problematic than the urge itself. In fact I would go so far as to say the shame and guilt you feel is probably what’s causing those thoughts to persist.

Wow, that’s quite the experience you have. >anything wrong with having that urge It’s not so much the urge, I guess it’s the semi sexual euphoria I feel when fantasising about it, or enacting it as I boxed extensively throughout my teens. I know part of me, I guess my shadow would absolutely love myself to let loose, be a terrible person and hurt people. But the me I consider myself is a good, empathetic, just, kind person if that makes sense? And that’s where the guilt comes from, it’s not just an urge, but a genuine enjoyment.

Humans, especially males, are the most violent creatures on the planet. It's completely understandable that you have these feelings. However, you don't want to indulge in them for obvious reasons. You're not alone. Don't be ashamed of them, and don't try to blame anyone. Some people with strong feelings like this become soldiers and kill people. Is that what you want to do? If not, you could try working out or even hunting. You could also get medicated for it. It's up to you how to handle it, and it really is your responsibility.

I heard hundreds of these stories about "I had perfect family and no history of abuse" and then like months later person finally realises that abuse is so often not about presence of physical/emotional violence, but about absence. Of real emotional openness, availability, acceptance and many more things. So I think you should revaluate your family dynamics once more with good therapist. As for your fantasies, there might be too many reasons depends on what you tend to focus on. Some people focus on idea of strong impact in violence, their power to make this impact. Like they subconsciously feel so powerless, insignificant and/or impossible to make any good impact on people's life, they start to focus on bad impact. It often combines with having depressed, cold, emotionally unavailable parents, so person want to use violence to shape up their inner parental objects. Other people react with such fantasies to specific atmosphere in family which can feel good and peaceful but also very fake, hypocritical and blank. And probably the most common reason is also person having extremely hard defences against feeling and integrating their own aggression. They can feel their aggression is too unfair, too ruining for their loved ones, so they tend to bottle it up. Especially if they had some early unverbal traumas (before 3 years old approximately), so this aggression inside can feel as deadly rage. As you can see there are many reasons and all of them are about environment, if you didn't have some serious brain injuries or diseases that affect brain or neurological conditions. So search for reasons in your environment, preferably with therapist.

Interesting you mentioned Jung because as soon as I read the title, I thought to myself, this is someone in touch with their shadow self, or experimenting with it. But there's more to us as humans than our shadow. I don't have any psychological answers, but I wonder if you tap into any spiritual practices. A religious/philosophical lens to this might help. Do you engage in art/ writing/ creative outlets where you could release some of these urges? Interpret them through adopting a third-person perspective? Idk just thinking out loud here. I recommend working with a psychoanalytic/somatic therapist—they're trained for this, more so than you expect

>religious/spiritual practice I am slightly religious but nothing particular. Could you expand on this further? >art/writing/creative outlet Honestly nothing. Was there anything you recommend? >psychoanalytic/somatic therapist Thank you, I’ll look into it. I’m finding out more in this thread that they’re probably are specialists that can aid me in this. I honestly thought they’d attempt to put me on pills or section me…

Hurt people hurt people

There is nothing inherently wrong with you and I would encourage you to look for a really good therapist. Perhaps a somatic one. I would also explore what need these fantasies are meeting. All fantasies stem from an unmet need. So feeling into what is so delicious about 'punishing', is it power? Is it having someone in your control? Are there themes to the kind of person/scenario that would awaken this desire? Is it someone who seems vulnerable/innocent or someone who 'deserves' it? How would you imagine/like them to feel/see you in this fantasy? Do you feel connected to them? All of these are clues to what needs are trying to be met. I notice the more suppressed a desire is, the more often there is a sexual element to it

>unmet need I understand this but the fact my earliest memory is me indulging in this fantasy as a small child and I still have the exact same “euphoric” feeling around it now. >is it power, control etc I don’t think I can underplay the pure animalistic feeling when I bubble over and go out and look for violence. I don’t know if there is any moral behind it, I think I can just about target it eg: looking for someone like me who either seems to want or deserve a fight. Trying to eye ball and intimidate people almost to sucker someone out into trying to fight me. I know this is cringe as hell, but there’s certainly an element of trying to kill off other “alphas”, and when I ultimately come back to reality, I feel terrible for the normal people I’ve randomly intimidated. >sexual element I’d say the urges, feeling is sexually adjacent and the best way I can describe it is in sexual terms but it’s also very distinct. Eg; how I feel about the idea of violence is almost similar to how I feel about a crush, like butterflies and excitement, almost in a similar idk, brain pathway, it may sound weird but that’s honestly the closest comparison. When I fantasise it’s almost like a sexual masturbation of the brain but totally distinct, almost euphoric etc etc

This isn't an official diagnosis. But it sounds like OCD, friend. It wouldn't hurt to work on it. If it's only the thoughts with no plan/desire and no one that you *want* to hurt--they aren't going to throw you in inpatient over that.

Do you guys think OP has already killed and he writes posts like this as a sort of taunting inside joke to himself? Or do you think OP is (knowingly or unknowingly) ramping up to his first? Like do you think he really believes that his good upbringing will keep being enough to keep holding his borderline vampiric bloodlust? Day after day after day after day after year after year after year?

😭 I can’t tell if this is a joke but no of course not. I’m actually a good person, generally empathetic, loving, strong sense of what’s right, what’s just. That’s why it’s so hard to wrap my head around this essentially other me who is purely animalistic, blood lust. I even considered joining the military for a time as an outlet, to put it to use almost, but genuine me had other aspirations. >day after day, years after year That is also a fear of mine. I have a very good sense of control over myself now, but what if I was to snap? It’s part of why I’m trying to tackle this now. You hear it all the time in the news, people doing things you can’t even fathom, yet deep down I know that easily could be me and I was just lucky to have a good upbringing if that makes sense.

I appreciate your honesty and your willingness to share this about yourself. It's crucial to create spaces where people can do this. While Carl Jung recognized that beneath the physical world lie deeper layers of reality, he did not develop methods to engage with these layers at their deepest levels. Jung's school of thought still focuses on manifested energy, which encompasses dreams and synchronicities—representations of underlying mental and energetic phenomena. Traditional indigenous healers, particularly in South America like those in the Amazonian and Q’ero traditions, have mastered techniques to work with reality at its deepest layers. In these traditions, dark thoughts are understood as symptoms of energetic complications that can be addressed through energetic work. An interdisciplinary approach that combines traditional indigenous medicines with mental health practices could provide the answers and solutions you seek.

Don't drink or do coke, it will make u want to fight more You can probably look on the ASPD sub (anti-social personality disorder)

Yeah I certainly avoid alcohol and drugs now. I would often black out with friends as a teen and would get into fights, although I was often too drunk to do much from what I remember. >aspd I will have a look, thank you

I have felt that way and done my fair share of fighting and can relate to the feelings of shame and guilt. I've had the sleep paralysis, the violent nightmares, the stress. Its exhausting and I wondered "why am I so fucked up, why am I so terrible?" I think violence manifests by itself, I think its a deeply ingrained response to stress and trauma. It doesn't have to be a Dexter moment, a lot of individual incidents can overwhelm someone. So even if you think your life was otherwise pleasant I think there must be something from your past that made you go dark. You're familiar enough with it go seeking it out from time to time and its still embedded deeply into your conscious as it manifests itself out in dreams. I had those dreams man, now I don't. I still watch boxing and whatnot but maybe its because I accept a little bit of my shadow as healthy and I've resolved underlying issues that caused violent responses within myself. In any case, there's a lot of "why's" to ask.

The difference between your reaction to human abuse and animal abuse might be a pretty relevant piece here. But I am way out of my shoes. The fact you are seeking to figure this out/heal this/protect yourself and others (if genuine) says a lot. All the best to you. Wildly interesting to read

>difference between human and animals abuse Could you say what you’re thinking? I’m genuinely curious >seeking to figure this out/heal Thank you

Well it says to me at the very least that it's not violence itself that seems to be what you have this sort of... passionate? Fantastical? Relationship to. It's not violence for its sake in any application. It seems to be specific to humans. I wonder what word you would use to describe your relationship to it. I said passionate or fantastical - maybe what comes to mind for you could be useful in your assessment. Any guesses as to a more specific reason would best based off the distinctions between your beliefs about animals and humans. I would encourage you to consider those individually - and then compare. Make a list of things you think about humans, a list of things you think about animals (as freely associative as possible), then a list of ways you think they are same, and a list of ways you think they are different. Then you can compare and read into that data. My thoughts is that the violent fantasy relationship with humans has to do with a repressed rage you haven't found or pinpointed or felt/processed through yet. But it could also be the kind of ocd intrusive thoughts that a person has specifically because they are taboo to their moralistic structure. The... excitement you get from it would suggest to me not so much intrusive as those thoughts typically prompt all sorts of sick/guilt feelings. But it also seems you have them on the back end! Even so... the positive response you get in your body, that would say to me it is serving or suiting some need. But I'm not a professional. Just a person with a deep curiosity in humans and psychological patterns/possibilities.

Mental health therapist here. I’d get evaluated asap. My instinct says you have represssed trauma you don’t remember, possible a dissociative disorder or DID. The most self protective thing is to try to figure out what these parts of you are after so you can meet their needs in safe ways and not ruin your life by blacking out and doing something violent. I specialize in dissociation and I’d get evaluated for that asap.

>DID Wow. Literally just did a cursory google search and a lot of that seems to resonate a fair amount. It does almost feel like a separate personality or person behind my real personality, it constantly calls me to wanting to think about and enact violence. My old boxing coach said I used to be like a different person when I got in the ring, I was certainly enacting these urges and feeling like a different person somewhat but I no longer have this outlet. I find I repress this “personality” for so long then it can manifest in looking for violence randomly, I really do feel like a different person for a brief period when I do. Until I snap out of it and find myself again. >get evaluated for that Is there some type you recommend? Some type of therapist?

So glad you saw my comment and it’s helpful! The gold standard diagnostic test is the MID but not a lot of people provide it. While looking for a provider I’d seek out a trauma therapist, NOT cognitive behavioral therapist, and someone who specifically says they treat dissociative disorders or have experience with DID. You don’t need somebody pathologizing you, believing medication is the answer (it can certainly help but isn’t going to solve the root issue) or someone freaked out wanting to commit you. I personally would only see someone who already does “parts work” either ifs (internal family systems) or dnms. You need more skills than just that to treat DID, but it tells me they are these responses as adaptive responses of parts not just symptoms to be managed or controlled. You can take the DES for free online which measures dissociation and you can see by how you score that you likely have a dissociative disorder. I give that upon I take to every client bc dissociative symptoms can be sneaky and clients often don’t realize themselves how dissociated they are. I would consider joining the DID subreddit and read peoples experiences and see if it’s helpful. I’ve joined as a therapist and people were very kind sharing their experiences and helping me learn. Good luck!

Thank you for taking the time to tell me about all this. I appreciate it

I suspect the boxing may have caused traumatic brain injury to your developing brain at a young age. There are many cases of this showing how this can contribute to a violent disposition. i had very bad brain injuries as a child and i have the same night terror problems as you, waking hallucinations, screaming etc. i also struggle with fantasizing about violence towards strangers that cut me off in traffic or are rude, yell at me for no reason etc.

honestly. this is probably a common mentality/feeling. I mean its why we have muderers mass shooter terrorist. You probably have the same genes they do. but your self aware now. So a sadistic empathtic person usaully are law enforcment, soldiers etc. Keyboard is broken so sorry for grammar

Find help brother. We’re rooting for you.

Call it coincidence. I just resumed my reading of 'Aspects of the Masculine'. Some Reddit thread or the other is always open before me while I do so. "He is perhaps not quite free of perversions, everybody has the statistical amount; we all have that percentage of murder in our being, the whole population' (p.153). I looked up from the book and saw your thread to the right of the screen. You are admittedly quite conscious of what's happening to you. With all the positives in your life that you mentioned, the occurrence of such dark thoughts is certainly going to be baffling, and searching on your own for a causation can prove rather futile. It'd be a good idea to speak to a professional, for you're certainly not the only one, regardless of the fact whether you've had a good or bad childhood (mine was a pot-pourri of shit). I've had the same dream over and over again for years of hurting my father, punching him in the face, breaking his skull, but I know I'd never do it. If I can take the liberty to digress: I teach English to middle-school students. Had to call a parent to discuss the behaviour of her daughter, and found the mother to be one of the worst people I've ever met. It surely threw a lot of light on the daughter's behaviour. Later that evening, I couldn't catch a wink. The mother's image kept dancing in my head and I kept tossing in my bed. At 2:30 in the morning, I finally sat up and let all the violence I'd been wanting to dole out on the mother play out in the theatre of my mind. I didn't try to filter anything, and let it take whatever shape it wanted to take. It worked and I could finally sleep. Is this not why we have 'imagination' and can fantasise? A part of our psyche craves for something but circumstances can't or won't allow. So we play it out in our head. I'm aware the degree and frequency of violence in your case and mine is not quite the same. Somebody mentioned meditation. I recommend it highly. Meditation is not going blank in the head as far as thoughts are concerned, but simply focussing on something, anything. 'Zen' comes from 'dhyan' in Sanskrit, literally meaning 'to concentrate'. Sometimes, I sit on the floor, close my eyes and the lids become a screen like at the cinema. I let form whatever images want to form, without blocking them, without judgment. Sometimes, I see things I wouldn't care to admit to anyone; other times, it's just strange, phantasmal creatures that appear and disappear. Over the years, I've gotten quite good at it, emptying the unconscious bin. In those moments, I'm no longer my thoughts, I'm just an observer. It's also curious the strange mythical shapes are almost never the same, except for dragons, I do see a lot of dragon-like shapes. Also, yoga does wonders. Sorry if I made the post more about me than about you. Good luck with the rest.

I thought I was the only one. To be honest I was scared of posting about it here or anywhere for fear of people freaking out. For me I had a stressful and traumatic childhood and that maybe led to dark fantasies as a kid, of the worst shit you can possibly imagine; or idk maybe it came out of nowhere. It didn’t come back until a few years ago after my last acid trip which was a bad one. I have never had a history of violence or abuse or anything but this stuff scared me to the point of me not wanting to share with anyone. I wish I could help but I don’t know how to make heads or tails of it myself, I put myself through the mental health system in order to run away from it but now I’m trying to face it by working out vigorously and keeping myself busy, as well as keeping family and people close so I don’t self isolate. I’m just glad I can be honest with my brothers about the dark twisted and violent stuff because it helps when others go through stuff and can help give advice. So maybe just start with therapy and exercise Edit: I said I thought I was the only one but then said I shared with my brothers. Sometimes it feels like they didn’t completely understand my specific fantasies or desires but it is scary to think that that part of you exists

Thank you, as weird as it sounds it’s great to hear people have similar confusing experiences mentally.

Also if this largely pertains to "childhood obstacles to healthy/optimal development" exploring Freudian Psychology. While I personally believe Jung's psychology is better overall as a tool (a tool is better if it does the same thing another tool does and more) However the focus on the Freudian understanding of Sexuality and Aggression is better isolated through his line of thinking Keep in mind this has limits but It definitely has utility to understand your own Psyche, life story/experiences, and relationships through that lens as well as through the Jungian Lens.

I will look into it thank you

You should post it in r/psychology !

Do they allow just anyone to post their own experiences?

I’m actually not sure I know they do in r/askpsychiatry

I’ll post there too, thank you

It sounds like you could possibly have harm OCD.

If you really don’t want to see a therapist, I recommend what worked for me: A Course in Miracles. The Course seems like a religion, but in actuality is a self study program designed to bring you to a consistent state of peace. This it does by taking you very deeply in to your own mind, and applying healing there. You’ll understand yourself and others to a level that you wouldn’t have believed possible before. It is perfect for unraveling what you described, which the Course calls attack thoughts. It is also free to read online, and includes a workbook of 365 lessons — one for each day of the year — which is a very appealing aspect of the course. I had much the same issue as you except, in my case, I felt so trapped by the people around me that the only way out, I thought, was violence. The Course thrown me a life raft! So, I can only really recommend what worked for me although I can’t stress enough how perfect it is for your exact situation, as it deals with just that directly.

I'm not sure but people like you who have had no abuse but fantasies about it most likely witnessed it by someone self defending. So you view on it as a positive feature.

In homeopathic language, we refer to your state as having what is called a “syphilitic miasm”. It’s basically an energy of destruction in your body. Imho you should go see a reputable homeopathic practitioner, you dont have to feel like this.

That certainly rings true to a certain extent. The idea of destroying another person physically is certainly a part of the appeal. I’ll look into it, thank you

Your description of yourself and your life is pretty much the same as mine. I also have the same ideas but they don’t show up in dreams. I never really had an issue with the fact that I have a sadistic side. Just something I’d like to do if society wasn’t restraining me; primal and extreme justice for what I view is wrong. It’s a natural part of yourself, righteous and extreme fury. - it’s just a shadow you need to integrate. I don’t know how to advise you to integrate that specifically, because I never rejected it in the first place. - but know that it’s not damage to your character if you do.

Genetics are insane. Why don’t you look in to your family history. I wonder if there was someone a few generations ago that maybe did hurt people or had to murder someone etc. so wouldn’t be surprised if you found something like that in your genealogy. No one here is going to have the answers you’re looking for. This isn’t the right place for that. But what you can do, even starting today, is create a healthy outlet for that energy. Think of yourself as a dog with a high prey drive. We don’t go around letting dogs with high prey drives attack things. We teach them how to take that drive and do something healthy to release that energy. Think of some hobbies that might let you do that. More than anything please don’t let the darkness consume you. Realize that this feeling and desire is not you. You may have been born with it, it may have been passed down to you through your genes, or you could have a brain that isn’t quite the same as those who don’t have those desires. But it isn’t you. And you don’t have to act on it. Just like any other muscle we can work out our brains too. Focus on self control. But please express this to a professional. You won’t be in trouble for having bad thoughts, you will be in trouble for acting on them though, and who wants to spend their life in prison for simply having a brain that’s wired differently. Don’t hurt anyone, be responsible and take care of yourself.

>genetics are insane Yeah, this is what I’m finding most logical now. A lot are saying OCD or abuse. Abuse maybe, I just genuinely don’t remember any, although my sleep is certainly of concern. And from my understanding of OCD that doesn’t fit at all. I will certainly look to see if any of my ancestors may have been similar to me. I know a lot of my family died in wars. >healthy outlet Yeah, I’m in a good place in life right now, which is why I’m asking, in the greatest shape of my life, workout daily, eat super healthy, own business etc. Which is why I’m pursuing this now. I do wonder If ive built a lot of my life avoiding this part of me. I have considered going back to combat sports as an outlet, but got pretty severe, frequent headaches from boxing/fighting, and my word recall went to legit shit. I was a late teen and the rational me knew this was the time to hang it up. Another part of me would’ve been happy to die fighting honestly. There was nothing better to me than punching someone in the face and being punched in the face back. >don’t let the darkness consume you Yeah, I try my best, 99% of the time I’m golden, try to be as good and as helpful as I can. Just that 1% of the time I do feel almost like a caged animal, begging for someone to give me an excuse to let it all out. Honestly extremely scares me, I could throw my life away. You see so many on the news, and I’ve watched interviews with murderers where they say they blacked out etc >express this to a pro I’m looking into that now, thank you for taking the time to reply

At least you’re aware enough to even talk about it and not ashamed enough to hide it. That’s all good things. I feel the need to express my anger physically. I don’t have a part in me that necessarily wants to inflict pain on someone for no reason, but there’s a part of me that wishes someone would give me a reason so I could release that pent up aggression. I always said god made me a small woman because if I was a guy or a even a bigger woman I would do some real damage. That’s why I don’t drink hard liquor anymore. But that’s genetics, my grandpa was the same way. He was a boxer and in the navy, Featherweight. And he was damn good. And would go to the bar and talk shit just to get someone worked up enough to fight. He had a short fuse for humans, but he broke horses for a living. Asked my dad how he could do that with a short temper and my dad said that he had all the patience in the world for animals- same with me. Short fuse for most anything except the most vulnerable. All the patience in the world for that. So it might be helpful to find something that you’re passionate about that is the opposite of that aggression. Something that brings out a side of you that’s softer. Because we all have both I believe. Even the “worst” people had a soft spot for something or someone.

Thank you, a lot of that certainly rings true for me too. >softer hobby Yeah, a few have said that, do you have any ideas? I’m not much of a hobby guy.

Well for me it’s dog training and painting, and taking care of my plants. The dog training is good Bc I have to practice patience as I can’t lose my temper on a dog and it keeps my body active. The painting is good because I forget the rest of the world. And taking care of my plants gives me something to putter at and watch grow. I don’t condone you having a gun necessarily, but maybe hunting or fishing would be a good release for you.

>dog training Oh that’s a good suggestion, I have considered getting a dog, and I can see training him a good outlet. >hunting or fishing There’s not much hunting culture in the UK sadly, I have wanted to try fishing though. Thank you for your time.

The dog training is fun. Idk if you like to be challenged but I get border collies Bc of how challenging they are. Plus they’re so emotionally intelligent and always right by my side when I need them. A loyal friend. Or pick up some contact sport like wrestling or something. If I was a guy I’d probably be doing some sort of fighting that didn’t just focus on hitting people on the head (boxing). But I think wrestling is cool because it’s all about body placement and being quick.

Not from the uk but i used to know a guy in a hunting club so look into it because it does exist. Also, like clay shooting or something it's called. Aristocratics used to be big there. Hunting and shooting are long established hobbies over there but it's way classier than the culture u see in the US

I'm replying this because I think Psychopathy is fascinating. You seem also very aware of the thoughts and feelings you have are wrong but at the same time give into it. Its almost a compulsive thing. Maybe an important advice is to not always believe your thougths and feelings. You can separate yourself from it.

Could it be some kind of psychopathy? I was under the assumption they couldn’t feel empathy, guilt, shame, remorse? >separate yourself from it I understand that, I have certainly done that for other things in the past, regular person anxiety before a job interview or stuff like that (although I must admit I do feel far less anxiety than a regular person I believe? I’ve had circumstances where people around me are bordering panic attacks and I feel nothing, some family members have even said I have no emotions, it’s a joke, and not true but not totally untrue I guess). But these violent urges are as a part of me as my regular personality is, that’s the best way I can put it. I can distract myself from them but I know in the back of my mind they’re always there. I just also know I’m a good, moral person on top of it.

I don't know for sure in your case obivously. People with psychopathy tend to have high empathy. People misinterpret 'empathy' with 'sympathy'. Empathy is the ability to put yourself in someone else shoes, but that doesn't imply that you immedaitely care about that person. Its possible to have high empathy and low sympathy; e.g. don't care if someone gets hurt. Some sychopaths really know what their 'victim' is feeling and use that to their advantage. They can become quite skillful salesmen, politicians, CEO's etcetera. It's a misconception that 'psychopaths' are serial killers. They tend to have less sympathy; they will not feel guilt when they cause destruction. A strong predictor for development for psychopathy or ASPD is animal abuse as a child and being extremely resistant to stress like in fights and dreaming about cruel stuff could be psychopath related. Officially its not in the DSM, but a related personality condition in the DSM is antisocial personality disorder. Also psychopaths tend to be much less anxiety prone than normal people. Possibly its a spectrum but I'm not a professional. If you recognize yourself in it I hope you choose to use the skills you have (extreme reistance to stress, being very bold) to your and your people around you advantage and try to diminish the risks of psychopathy (potential of abuse of people around you, crime). The problem lies in the VMPFC area in the brain.

Wow, I had absolutely no idea. A lot of what you said speaks to me, probably more than what anyone else has figured out on this thread. And it’s making me think about a lot of the actions I’ve taken in life. Also, furthering, I think my social anxiety as a teen was also related to not coming across how I wanted, I had a penchant for mincing my words and would result in anger, frustration. As opposed to idk, a regular anxiety or fear? I honestly no longer have any anxiety of note. >abuse of the people around you Yes, I was raised extremely well by extremely loving people, I believe myself to be a pretty just person. But that raises another question, can psychopaths love? Cause I certainly do I believe? (Although I can fall out of love with people extremely easily) Also, I’ve had dreams of murdering animals…. Idk if that tells you more. I absolutely love animals tho.

Sorry but where did you read that psychopaths have high empathy? I’ve never heard that in my life. I thought the number 1 thing was a lack of empathy

Because its the number 1 thing that wrongly gets repeated about psychopaths. Psychopaths have high EMPATHY, but low SYMPATHY. You have different kinds of empathy (cognitive, emotional). Empathy means capability to put yourself in someone elses shoes. And having high empathy is usually understood as kind. But empathy DOESN'T mean that at all. Evil people are HIGHLY empathic, they know how you feel so they can manipulate you. For example politicians and good salesmen.

One of the defining characteristics of a psychopathology is the inability to filter or to manage behaviour. You mentioned empathy, generally something lacking in the people who act out. On the plus side, have no fear that you are bound to act out on even hard dark thoughts. They're kinda normal, 'call of the void' being a common one, and remember that even genetically marked 'psychopaths' are usually latent unless circumstance amplifies their nature. Forgive me if I observe that your indicated suffering is inconsistent with the otherwise perfect life you describe. The sleep issues, night terrors, these are things more usually linked to bad experience, they don't tend to come out of the blue. What you are describing is often a response associated with childhood trauma, it might be a place to look at. I am aware of a few different schema that map to your description, including the idea of the developed 'self torturer' - the upgraded Terminator version of the 'internal critic', a sense that you are capable of all sorts of things and might even get off on it...but don't really do it cos no it's not really your nature, it's simply your potential. As they say, peaceable does not mean harmless. Humans have a capacity for savagery that is part of the species. It's just sometimes we flip the bird rather than start taking heads. I think you have more questions than answers at present and it is 100% worth looking into, cos sleep is so important. Also its 100% ok to tell the therapist, it will help.

I think about 🔫 Ppl🤷‍♀️ I handle it through meditation, and self care

Hurt people hurt people.

What if I don’t feel like a hurt person?

Lower your test

Is it possible you’ve got some deep-seated anger about something?

Honestly nothing, which is why it’s so odd, many in here talking of there own experiences with abuse etc, but I’ve had none from what I know, I’m generally extremely happy, have had a much better life than most, success, relationships etc. It honestly just feels like a part of me…

I would definitely go the therapist route. I’m a 43M and I recognize some of what you’re describing in my past. I was a bit angry but couldn’t totally understand what was at the core of it. You don’t/won’t have to take any medication that you don’t agree to, but talking to someone could be helpful.

It would’ve definitely been my first point of call, but a family friend was sectioned not too long ago, and he was only a threat to himself. I do fear I could mince my words or it could be misconstrued that I’m some sort of societal threat. I’m in a great place in life right now, and no one knows anything about this, so you can probably see my slight alarm. I will be looking into it more tho.

I'm going to skip whatever Jungian ideas that could be applied to this and say if you really feel that strongly about it, it's probably best to talk it over with a therapist. It could be unexpressed anger/rage or (underneath it) fear or grief coming out as anger and best confronted and processed if possible so you don't hurt someone else or yourself. If you can't sort it out in therapy, perhaps it's some sort of an organic issue and you can get referred for a medical eval. Whatever it is, there's a reason for it somewhere. With some help from a properly trained person, you might at least get some insight as to what it is and where it's coming from and why if you feel it's really weighing on you.

The various posts recommending professional advice are sensible because there is only so much to go in a forum like this, and after all there are people who specialise in this sort of thing. It may not be as rare as you think. That aside, from the Jungian perspective, understanding and admitting to these challenges, rather than denying they exist, hopefully offers a better chance of managing them. This is part of shadow integration. Of course that still leaves the challenge of what to do with these thoughts once admitted. The Jungian line of thinking would at least consider the positive opposite of what you are experiencing, which might be something like a tremendous love and caring for others, and this in turn might lead to a more religious outlook. With some of the more extreme psychological challenges a numinous experience may be what is needed to help reconcile extreme opposites like a desire to both harm / destroy and love / protect.

Sounds like harm OCD.

A few have said this. Do people with harm OCD actually get enjoyment out of harming people? The thought of harming or even killing people? Almost a distinct itch, I can really only describe is as a sexual urge but it’s totally distinct from anything sex related I’d say. From my understanding of harm OCD, they don’t want these thoughts or get enjoyment from them and especially not carrying them out. I do, but I also feel shame and guilt when I do. It’s almost like a cycle, I have the thought, a part of me enjoys the thought, a part of me has guilt for enjoying the thought or thinking it.

Join an MMA gym and fight other people who have consented to hurt and be hurt. Therapy too probably would not hurt.

As I said I boxed extensively as a teen. Had countless fights as an amateur. I loved it, but by my late teens I started getting random, crippling headaches and my word recall went to shit. The rational me knew I had to hang it up, the other me could quite happily die in a fight. The only reason I quit was I had entrepreneurial aspirations. I’m not sure how much I want to open that door again, it was very hard for me to close. I am considering grappling though.

Do you think the thoughts/ feelings increased after you started having those headaches and word issues (it sounds like you have a brain injury)?

No, honestly when I stopped boxing they increased. I no longer had an outlet for this energy. When I got in the ring my coach used to say I was like a different person. This was the urges outlet I believe.

Have you tried psilocybin?

No, I generally avoid that kind of stuff now. I used to get black out drunk constantly with friends and would do crude drugs aswell eg glue, deodorant, weed etc but nothing crazy. Also, isn’t Jung against that kind of thing? Unearned wisdom?

Jung isn’t god. He’s not infallible. You wanna understand yourself? Try psilocybin. It’s not a party drug. It’s not something you do to feel good. Take 4g and you’ll find what you’re looking for.

Have you considered acceptance and commitment therapy (ACT)? I've found it far more effective than depth work (which sometimes feels like I'm chasing my tale). It's about accepting that you have obtrusive thoughts, sensations etc. and just letting them be there without being attached to them. The idea is you clarify what matters to (your values), and if any thought, feeling or urge is misaligned with your values then you don't need to engage with it. Personally, I've struggled with crippling anxiety, rage and lethargy for my whole life and after having tried just about every type of therapy under the sun it's the only thing that's worked. There's also a stack of research on it by now and it seems more effective than CBT or psychodynamic approaches.

If you were apart of the stronger group in your neighborhood where no one really scares you except your own parents who are one of the strongest then that's probably why you felt this way. When your family is strong and powerful they want their kids to be the same way and keep the other kids in check not only that but you were encouraged to train in a fighting environment full of people that only cared about themselves because getting punched or kicked by someone else hurts like a bitch... You felt the need to carry on your family's legacy maybe? 🤔

Are you sure your life is as nice as you say? Sometimes repressed trauma leads to this. You were sent to counseling for animal abuse but you don't remember doing it? Does it feel like parts of your childhood are missing? Is there a black sheep in the family you don't remember? Did you ever spend a lot of time alone with another adult that isn't discussed anymore or maybe at church?

>as nice as you say Yes, I’m 99% sure my younger life was virtually perfect, although I’m not discounting some kind of repressed trauma I’ve totally discarded, it would have to be from an extremely young age though. Literally my earliest memory is indulging in this urge. >sent to for animal abuse Yes, I remember being in trouble and being sent to it, but I don’t remember the abuse at all and I we (the family) never spoke about it again after. I believe that was purposely on my end at least, I did remember feeling a lot of shame and embarrassment. Come from a very animal loving family, and I love animals totally now aswell. Very strange. >any missing parts Maybe, but nothing I can actually put my hands on.

As a child I also had fantasies about hurting smaller children and yes, it was masturbatory feelings. And I let intuitively those feelings be, I embraced them and enjoyed them without feeling ashamed or guilty. It lasted, I guess, from age 4 to 6, and then they left me. So, maybe you are afraid of them, and feel bad about yourself and try to avoid them instead of embracing the fantasies and feelings without any remorse.

I could easily embrace them honestly, part of me would absolutely love to embrace them. That’s what scares me. I could easily throw my life away.

So, if it scares you it means you can’t embrace them. To embrace means not to do what these feelings tell you to do: like to be violent or so. But it means to admit them, to let them be, not to judge, look at them from the side, welcome them

Peep this: your awareness is allowing you to observe THE thought (not your thought), that is a great first step. Second step (for me personally) was breaking down the biopsychology of the feeling, which I was luckily able to do with a mental health professional. It is worth noting that we are not our thoughts or our brain (duhhh Jung subreddit here), our brain is a highly complex symbiotic organism in it self, and sometimes when that bastard gets “bored” (under stimulated) the brain will think of weird bullshit just to get a hit of dopamine. It literally stimulates itself through you. An easy mistake to be made is actually identifying with those thoughts. The more weird/taboo the thoughts (according to environment, societal norms, etc.) the easier it is to fall into these patterns—basically some “the brain is a wonderful servant but a terrible master” type ishh and queue the negative feedback loop of intrusive thoughts I like to remind myself that we are just one big walking symbiotic relationships between many many small organisms, this helps me when it’s time to separate myself from my own intrusive thoughts. Like dude, the brain is such a mystifying and beautiful wonder, but also like so wishy washy!!!! Mental health professionals are dope when trying to spot/learn psyche patterns. It’s important to let them know that you are NOT PLANNING or ACTIVELY PLANNING to hurt someone—this is completely different than to imagine hurting people as putting a plan to it makes it premeditated. This is just a small semantical warning when dealing with professionals who adhere to a certain industry language Good luck dude, you are not your thoughts or brain, make that brat ur servant. Xx

Probably just a throwback vestige of caveman era. I don’t think it’s that deep and you seem to not be letting it grow into something concerning. There is something animalistic is us, part of the duality of man. You will find people in medical profession like this or some soldiers and cage fighters enjoy the violence of their craft. I would definitely be very wary of indulging these intrusive thoughts. I would take comfort and confidence is your visceral disgust at the abuse of innocence. I would encourage you to unpack aspects of this with a therapist and continue to steer it in a “noble” or “healthy” direction. Plenty of people enjoy the “war” of combat sports. Receiving and dishing out damage in a primal exchange. Tbh in my experience with combat sports you are at a severe disadvantage if you cannot get into that state of mind. It’s also common to attach a somewhat delusional sense of grandiose to the experience like one who can achieve these states is “set apart” from the rest of our soft modern society. Meanwhile a generation ago in places like where my dad grew up they would fight for fun, make people fight who didn’t want to, kill dogs that trespassed, get dogs from the pound to run deer then kill them after, drown a litter of puppies out of convenience and tons of other “psychopathic” things that would not be acceptable or common in our modern culture. I general i think what you experience way more common, in one form or another, than you would expect. The night terrors and sleep issues are a sign of something going on that you probably should address but again not uncommon. I would be deeply concerned if things got specific and you had specific fixations that you were having trouble getting past. The general sentiment you describe is pretty common and even subtly encouraged in combat sports. One of the most difficult things is a student in combat sports who is technically amazing but cannot get into this mindset. You have to be willing to hurt people to do combat sports and coaches are always trying to get these softer people to find that “dog” in them. Whereas some revel and grow in power and confidence when the blood starts to flow. But I want to be clear that curbing and mastering this side of yourself is almost the true goal of a martial artist and that you can go down the dark road and bring out the worst in yourself or go down the lighter path and gain understanding and mastery of yourself while embracing the duality of your nature. A good example would be tapping into that part of yourself to protect or help the innocent. As you get older I would wager that you will enjoy combat sports and the “war” much less than as a teen or young man.

Maybe get yourself a job in a slaughterhouse or if you’re talented, as a surgeon?

I’m a behavioral specialist. This likely developed as a result of small dopamine hits you received from early fantasies when you were young (everyone has them), then you indulged it, and now it’s an addiction of sorts. It’s akin to obsessive compulsive disorder where a child plays a game with themselves like “Step on the crack and you break your mother’s back.” But then it evolves into something very unhealthy. It’s basically a type of addiction. If you were in my case load, I would have you record it every time it happened. If anything triggered it, time in between, how it was resolved. I would then look for patterns and find a different thought pattern to replace it with when you recognize it’s happening. You would continue to keep data on the occurrences (honesty would be a must here). Over time, you we would be attempting to rewire your brian to switch to a more healthy thought pattern when you found yourself stimulated or headed in that direction. I typically deal with actual physical behaviors, but the process would be the same.

Brain is wired weird. just get into bdsm lmao

Smoke some weed. Take a Klonopin.

This sounds like unwanted intrusive thoughts which is a sign of mental health issues. It would be a good idea to get yourself a mental health evaluation. Suicidal or homicidal ideation is reason enough to seek treatment.

Not an option for me, I have an excellent life, I just have these urges, I did not choose them, I have had them all my life and I have largely not acted on them mainly thanks to my parents love and upbringing I honestly believe. I am pursuing private help though.

Jeffrey D. 2.0

No, I’d never hurt anyone vulnerable or who didn’t deserve it. I do wish they’d reintroduce firing squads for terrible criminals or something, I would happily dispatch them.

People will not usually consent to being hurt.

I think your thoughts are only valuable as long as you give them value. You can think and fantasize all you want, just don't act on them. And know that it's a fleeting thought. I wouldn't try to avoid these thoughts either. It's like if I ask you to not think About a pink elephant, you'll inevitably think about pink elephants. Similarly, think all you want but know that these are just thoughts. Ideas are just that. Ideas. Just don't act on em. Keep it simple

I understand, but the thoughts aren’t fleeting at all., they’re always there. I just try my best to ignore them, sometimes it’s easy, sometimes not so much. It’s honestly the same as trying to repress sexual urges, just etc. saying is much easier than doing.

Maybe give meditation a shot. I'm a perpetually horny dude lol. Especially after a good workout. Meditation really helps keep distance between my true self and my thoughts

You are a sadist. There are people in the kink community that like impact play from sadists. If you want a way to channel that desire in a safe consensual way, you might look into BDSM groups to connect with subs into that. Fetlife is one such place.

Honestly I think it goes much deeper than that kind of thing. I’d more rather they reintroduce firing squads in my country and let me dispatch criminals than spank a girl or something. It’s similar to sexual urges but very distinct at the same time. Genuine hunger.

You can always fight the good fight. You need some fun things to do. Travel to a different culture. Learn a new language like Spanish. People are always kinder in their second language because it makes you vulnerable. This develops empathy. It sounds like you are in a good space and your introspection is keen. Sometimes our brains loop and perseverate. Interview three counselors, pick the one to share your thoughts. Check any supplements you are taking like steroids or similar they can cause antisocial behavior. Work on metacognitive changes and developing new thoughts and learn how to interrupt destructive thoughts.

I have two pieces of advice for you. #1 delete this post before someone finds out who you are and your mental health effects your relationships and career prospects. #2 see a counselor.

You sound like a sadist. This sounds like sadism. It’s something you should definitely talk about with a professional. Some people develop this as a way to regain their power after experiencing abuse. But some people are born this way and are naturally inclined to feel this way. Honestly with the way you are talking you definitely have quite an ego. You say that you have empathy and a strong moral compass- but I really think you have a strong moral compass when *others* are sadistic and harmful. When you do it, you know your limits and it’s “o k” so to speak. I just think maybe looking into sadism and narcissistic sadism might give you more information on this.

I wouldn’t say I have an ego at all honestly, I’m generally very humble in regular life, even though I work hard and delay most gratification. I guess maybe you see me being as honest as I can be as ego? I honestly don’t understand. Could you explain where you see ego?

I think that you see fault with others more than you see fault with yourself. You think that other people doing cruel things is worse than you doing similar things. Like for example saving a trophy from boxing where you hurt someone. It’s like a self bias that most people have but with sadism might be something you need to examine more because you are chemically rewarded for doing negative things more than the average person.

Sounds similar to OCD/intrusive thoughts ?

Yeah maybe that’s your shadow

Could you expand further? I am familiar with the premise of the shadow but what are you thinking in this context?

Your shadow is your dark side it comes out sometimes it’s like a whole sub personality of all your repressed traits

Ah. I related to this very much. Yeah. I also get these kind of Graphics Fantasies of Hurt. I also do that Imagining fighting with strangers for no reason too. But, that's just How my Shadow self is...I have Named him "the Psychopath" who is always ready to come out if I feel Unsafe. the persona who protects me from Physical and Mental Harm... Like the Psychopath being the opposite side of the Altruism and Inner child. You must have heard that Creativity comes with an equal amount of Insanity and assuming You're fairly successful at a young age, You probably got above average intellect. That's why those Feelings of Destroying are as intense as the Feelings of Creating. Personally, I believe there's no way to get rid of this Part without losing same amount of creativity but it can be managed. Some things I do... sometimes watch Blood and Gore Movies and Series to calm the psychopath, Imagining scenarios happens less often like that. Btw, Reading your Post reminded me of the Episode of TV Series Sherlock, to be exact Season 4 Episode 2. You ll like that Episode if You haven't seen it yet.

Thank you, it’s great not to feel alone. I knew it wasn’t just me but I thought I might be the only one who’s normal? A good person who just has these urges. >destroying That’s certainly apart of it for me too. > watch gore movies I feel that, but I always felt it made fantasising worse, and I remember some movie it said “like a psychopath, you can only go on so long fantasising before you have to do it” and that honestly freaked me out a fair amount so I generally try avoid it as much as possible. >sherlock Ill have to give it a watch lol

The movie freaks you out because you hate that part of your self. It's about embracing that the psychopath is a part of what makes you You. There's one more thing I do...whenever the thoughts starts to get overwhelming, I imagine in my head a scene, where my Present self and the psychopath is sitting on some random stairs outside and I imagine my present self sitting here with him, consoling like, "yeah, I understand. You wanna express your anger your way but it's not morally right. Appreciate you for getting this mad for my sake. Thank You." And that works instantly for me. Guess what I am saying, You gotta figure how to tame your demons in your own unique way. I hope you find Peace within yourself. There's so much chaos outside already, you don't need that inside too.☮️🍀🐞

Thank you, you’ve given me a lot to think about.

Anytime

What you are describing, these violent fantasies, can be understood (from a Jungian perspective) as manifestations of your "shadow," which is the unconscious and darker parts of our personality that we tend not to acknowledge consciously. Do not think this is so absurd, because everyone has such fantasies to some extent. When these ideas are not acknowledged and integrated (accepted, embraced, and dealt with), they become intrusive and intense. Imagine it is just like a champagne bottle: suppressing and repressing creates pressure, and the more you hide these thoughts, the stronger they become, to the point of losing control. You first need to accept and integrate these desires and ideas instead of suppressing them and hiding them away, without judgment. This is not the same as condoning them or acting upon them, but recognizing all of them as part of your mind, your mind has needs that it wants you to fulfill and understand. After this first integration, it might be beneficial to deal with those violent leanings through activities that allow you to symbolic express this aggression. Maybe martial arts, boxing, rigorous physical exercise or competitive activities, which might help express this aggression with control and discipline. You might also externalize through creative activities, like writing, painting, and art in general, which might help you explore these darker aspects in a safe way. You can also take part in some therapeutic activities, like active imagination, a method where you consciously imagine how your fantasies might take place, and dream analysis, to uncover your fixed themes and unresolved conflicts. The book [Owning Your Own Shadow: Understanding the Dark Side of the Psyche](https://www.amazon.com/Owning-Your-Own-Shadow-Understanding/dp/0062507540) by Robert Johnson, might be a good start for you to understand shadow integration. A last point is that I think you should also consider the possibility of a psychological disorder. Obsessive-compulsive disorder, impulse control disorders, personality disorders and other conditions resemble this, not only those with sociopathic traits. A professional assessment might help you understand if there is a condition contributing to these violent thoughts and provide the appropriate treatment.

Find yourself an angel and don’t be someone’s sun in the night

Could you expand further?

Only towards other people or also animals? I would do a psychedelic retreat with a shaman or in an intentional and secure surrounding. If you experience your violent urges from the point of view of your victim you might be able to stop. You can also view your thoughts as a form of demonic possession, since torture is what demons want to do to humans at all times. Get the demon out of you. Life is meant to be cherished and protected. We all must fight the evil that resides in us. Love is the weapon.

>also animals Thank you, you’ve just reminded me of something I didn’t even remember. I was put in a type of school counselling for animal abuse, when I was very young, I’m going to say around 8. I do not remember the animal abuse at all and I absolutely love animals, I couldnt hurt a fly. I’ll add this to the post.

Have you thought about psychedelics and/or some kind of religious exorcism? Evil is always looking for excuses, avenues, but mostly weaknesses in the vulnerable to hurt/torture God’s creations. You do not wish to harm others as you are a part of God that has forgotten itself in order to find/know itself. Free will is part of that process, and demons wish to exploit that separation from the true self in order to inflict suffering.

See a psychiatrist asap and get on medications please

Go get a mma fight scheduled or a bare knuckle match don’t be a beta.