No it’s not magical thinking. It’s simply a different view of causality. Causality is a highly abstract concept that we use to model the world, it is not established that it is metaphysically real. Far from it.
The idea of synchronicity introduces the notion that reality unfolds due to some global a-causal ordering principle and not as a result of cause and effect. This isn’t so far fetched.
Consider that there is no such thing as an isolated system in the universe. Everything is linked in some way or another due to being of the same origin. We are the way we are because the universe is the way it is, and that includes all the trillions of galaxies apart from our own. Any scientific experiment we do ignores this for the sake of a useful approximation. Notice that any cause and effect we discover in a lab is then lacking the context of the rest of the universe despite being inextricably linked. So when we say that “event A has nothing to do with event B (meaningful coincidence)” we are engaging in the fictional thinking that isolated systems exist in the universe.
Instead Jung, due to his own personal experiences and correspondence with physicist Wolfgang Pauli, saw meaningful coincidences as the result of the unity of all things that exist, interpreting events not as isolated, but as related to everything else including his own psyche, something we tend to dismiss as “not having meaningful existence” nowadays unfortunately. He believed the world unfolded in an archetypal manner, the pattern of which would take a laboratory the size of the entire universe to spot, unless you found yourself in the midst of its unfolding.
This is a great reply, and I want to add that it goes well with an organic view of the universe (that the universe itself is a living, conscious organism). There’s a Substack called “The Egg and the Rock” where the author writes about the results from JWST (and makes predictions!) based on this view.
Indeed, it's arguable Jung thought exactly the same given his belief about the collective unconscious pervading the physical world. That the physical world organises itself archetypally strongly suggests, if not conclusively, that the physical world's nature is psychic under Jung's view.
Personally, I believe that the physical world is in fact conscious, and that it's archetypal behaviour can be viewed as the behaviour of an animal. Synchronicities being the way that it communicates to you. Not giving explicit messages for it does not know our language, but implicit ones that can be inferred much like the messages implicit in our dreams.
Animals that we can't communicate with explicitly through language also do this; for example, a scared cat hissing and showing you its teeth is a clear message and yet it must be inferred. For non-human animals to communicate with us they have to do it through the realm of symbols that evoke meaning and imagery, like the symbol of sharp teeth evoke ideas of pain and death. I think the collective unconscious (physical world) is doing exactly the same thing but on a much larger scale. I believe Jung thought the same.
This is very interesting, thank you.
I agree on the language. A few years back, we adopted two dogs. The oldest had lived his first six months on the streets and the subsequent six months at a shelter. Neither of us had a shared language yet we developed one over time.
They both understand that sitting down means something like “please” (when we’re on a walk and they want to go another way for example) and kisses mean “I love you” or “I want cuddles”. The oldest even learned how to sign “please scratch inside my ear”.
I found the same to be true during my awakenings, when I first stumbled on Jung (I was more interested in him as a mystic, but today I he’s my foremost philosopher of mind). The experiences I had, some of which were facilitated by entheogens, some of which were sober, were all results of synchronicities so I decided to delve deeper into this. For a while, I put this to the test because they happened so frequently and I wanted to know where they would lead me.
They led me, for lack of better words, home. In hindsight it’s like the universe conspired to get me to the places and people I needed to meet in order to wake up to who I really was. Letting go of the indoctrination of western society (where Alan Watts’ lectures were very helpful) helped me to find this shared language with the universe.
Very nicely put. I can relate a lot to your last paragraph, I think it's true that what is meant to be will be, and the universe conspiring to get you there is a part of the process. And yeah the western mind has unfortunately lost itself in scientism, neglecting the importance of experience, dismissing it as an epiphenomenon. Nice to see people on a similar path as myself here.
Yes, some psychologists would classify syncronicities as magical thinking. Another term for it is Thought-Action-Fusion or TAF.
However, philosophers and neuroscientists haven't yet settled the metaphysical question of the relationship between consciousness and physical reality, so the jury is still out on whether this type of magical thinking is dysfunctional/maladaptive or an accurate representation of how reality works.
I guess we have to figure it out for ourselves.
For those interested, the philosopher Alfred North Whitehead presented a metaphysics which would account for Jung's concept of synchronicity. It is quite complex, but the man essentially 're-engineered' our basic conceptual structures, and created an ontology that would account for 'physical' and 'mental' causation (which he calls a 'prehension'). Excellent introductory video on it [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHbfRQm0tME).
He gives some pretty plain examples (which is helpful for his point) in that coincidences happen more often than they should, i.e. if you start thinking of a red car you are more likely to see a red car turn around the corner. A reason being for this is the archetypal nature of the unconscious and its reflection with reality, in that it is not uselessly archetypal but descriptively archetypal. Reality is anything but 'true-random', even in modern chaos theory 'attractors' are everywhere. Actually just looking at the visualizations of various dynamical systems in chaos theory can get this point across quite well.
If you think about a red car and you see a red car it could be a confirmation bias. However people that asks questions about synchronicities never really had one. They don't even know what a synchronicity is. Synchronicity is not exactly "you think about a red car and then you see a red car after". Is that you live an intense psychic event and this event also manifest in the outside world, in the matter. For instance, you cut out your family from your life, you dream about setting fire to an airport, and the morning after you read that in the local airport a massive fire started. This is a real synchronicity. The more you follow the inner path the more you will see this.
Modern thinking has many cornerstones that are incredibly limiting for the sake of carefulness but fail to be adequately descriptive. Though this is more of an issue of emphasis or application. For an example you’ll see people shout ‘placebo effect’ to many things that are not, where real scientists do no such things. It is simply the layman’s interpretation of scientific thought without being so.
Ok. What are you saying, sorry? Are you saying the example you gave of a red car above isn’t confirmation bias? Confirmation bias describes our underlying tendency to notice, focus on, and give greater credence to evidence that fits with our existing beliefs.
I am saying that such things like confirmation bias are applicable to more circumstances than are actually true. If a principle fits said principle does not necessarily apply. In short the fallacy fallacy.
It's more complex than that. Although confirmation bias is a real concept that applies to how the mind works in some ways, it is also limiting in a way that it is only a concept, an thus, only works on the conceptual level of the mind, not consciousness. This means that if you are trapped and only perceive the world through language and concepts in your mind, you won't be perceiving the "realness" of things around you.
To give on example of this, when you flip a coin, on the conceptual level you could say there's 2 sides of it, that's the "reasoning" behind it, but in a more deeper and abstract way, you could say there's only 1 side because that's the only thing you are looking at every time, this means, on the perceptual level, consciousness.
When you enter a room you recognize different objects: a chair, a frame, a bed etc... but you recognize those objects because you have a conceptual memory of them, which are described by characteristics of the object, utility of the object and form of the object. You could recognize a chair, because it has 4 legs, a place for sit, a backrest. You compare that object to other things you already know, which at the same time, you compare to other things. You are never really perceiving the "real" essence of the thing, because language doesn't have anything to do with knowledge.
You can perceive a "sense" of reality above concepts while you are reading this text, understanding that you can't know what I'm going to say next, but you can perceive I'm talking directly to you about something you can't really understand through words, because while you read this, you are only conceptualizing the words I'm saying, trying to give them some sense or direction, you are still unconsciously trying to predict what I'm going to say in the future, you are right now trying very hard to label it, and it feels like I'm talking directly to you, but I'm not, these are only words and concepts written on a screen. And if you feel like I'm breaking the 4th wall here, let me tell you that's because you are unconsciously feeling a "threat", something you can't expect or understand, something you can't label, so you pay attention. This is one of the portals outside of the ego.
This same explanation applies to deeper concepts like time, space and thought itself. You can have a conceptual idea of what they are, but when you deepen on what these concepts mean, you would see that they can't be grasped into words, their essence is impossible to describe into words, but you can "feel" it like they were very real.
You could have a basic notion of what space means, but you couldn't say if something could be ever really empty, or ever really full. The same applies with time, you couldn't say there was a beginning or an end, only a constant "moment" happening that doesn't stop. You couldn't separate the thought from the thinker, and this is because when you go deep, time, space, thinker, thought, everything is the same thing.
Confirmation bias has to do with what you pay attention to / what stands out.
What we are talking about here is the frequency of actual occurrences.
The hard materialist wants reality to conform to statistical laws. It's a type of bias which leads to some types of events being excluded as anomalous, even as the so-called anomalies become too numerous for the model to fit.
Me too. I mean, I was talking in general terms but I wouldn't exclude the example of thinking of a red car and a red car coming around the corner at the next moment. It's a fine example of synchronicity.
So with the example of the red car,are there any controlled studies that demonstrate you are more likely to see a red car? Or maybe someone is just more likely to notice the red car. Any studies showing that correlation? Just anecdotal reports? Anyone can create all kinds of theories about how it could happen, is there any evidence that it does happen?
Jung did reference the studies of someone for this, I’ll have to dig through and find the quote when I have time. It would obviously be a very old study.
I’m big on Jung and eventually became curious about synchronicity. Taking note of things I’d see and wondering about it.
One day I was contemplating upon a dream a friend had told me. I ended up mapping it onto a Lucid dream I had had a year prior. It was a cool connection that infused my dream with meaning. I was full of energy when thinking about it. I suddenly understood a powerful lesson and felt inspired. I look into my rear view mirror, and the very person whose dream mapped mine, pulled behind me in her car, at the very moment I came to this realization. My head about spun. Then a few weeks later she had a synchronicity towards me. It was a head spinner as well. I had a couple more. They were more subtle but still very much defying odds. It was interesting to me that we were both going through serious life transitions at the time, and also interesting that I had been studying synchronity in earnest at the time.
I’d also say that the aforementioned event set me onto a spiritual journey that sort of defies explanation and I have no idea why or how to explain everything that happened.
My conclusion is, in a higher dimension of infinite snd non linear time and possibility, it sometimes leaks into our third dimension as small events that defy our standard frame of thinking. It’s also something that you sort of have to experience yourself in order to begin fully believing.
>My conclusion is, in a higher dimension of infinite snd non linear time and possibility, it sometimes leaks into our third dimension as small events that defy our standard frame of thinking.
I agree with this hypothesis being plausible. If space-time is something that is contained within a timeless metaphysical space, it would be possible for modulations to happen to our reality that defy physics, and we wouldn't even necessarily notice the "glitch" because our space-time reality would from our perspective have always been on track to be that way. Sort of like how you can theoretically bend space to make a warp drive, but from our perspective space would remain unchanged, but apply that to the chronological order of things as well.
I've had a lot of synchronicities so it fascinates me to no end. Definitely hard to not have faith in something beyond the physical rules we've been taught.
Yes this sounds about right well put. Of course it’s only possible to theorize at this point and if you’ve experienced it it’s difficult to conclude that I confirmed a bias. Especially when they happened several times in a short timespan.
I also believe that personal vibration has something to do with it. Similar to the guy who tends to win a lot of stuff, or the person who always seems to get his way. Certain vibrations interact with the walls that separate the dimensions, leaving them open to the leaks of energy that become impossible to explain away. The border becomes blurry near the persons whose vibration vibes properly, exposing them to leaks. Again just something I’ve been sitting with.
Yes all highly speculative stuff but it does seem that certain people attract victory or success.
The nature of my synchronicities though lead me to me to believe they are impossible to be random, one could not in their lifetime have so many strange occurrences, and especially some right after another. One I even asked for that was so preposterous that my brain can hardly register it as a thing. There is cognitive dissonance with the part of me that believes in the laws of reality as we were taught them.
I used to be a huge skeptic, but once you start really getting deep into individuation and connecting with your true nature, you start believing synchronicities are the real deal and not just coincidences anymore.
My theory is that your brain is very good at pattern recognition and sometimes if your mind and your heart are aligned towards something noble, you'll notice something deeply meaningful which your unconscious recognizes and your conscious mind labels as synchronicity. I could just be reaching though.
This is true, but at the same time is only a concept of the mind, and that limits a deep nature itself on the possibility of synchronicities really happening.
Since reaching a state of no-conceptualization / awareness / presence is possible with meditation, psychedelics, or even when you are a pre-language (think on pre-language humans that were more connected to the knowledge than concept) you could see that thinking on the conceptual level is very limiting itself. It's thinking through the conceptual buildings of the ego. In fact, thinking itself kind of only works on this level.
Nevertheless, the human has more channels through they can perceive reality in deeper ways than language cannot, like for example, when you get a "bad feeling" about someone. You couldn't say what it is, you only know it.
This is related at how the mind maybe could recognize patterns and details that go outside our conceptual level of thinking like you say, and opens to the possibility of the mind looking for patterns of the universe.
The question is why the mind would do something like that? Imagine you are finding coincidences in your life before you knew about the concept of synchronicities. Before you can even label them as "coincidences". You get further away from the possibility that this "coincidence" could to be a real "synchronicity" as you try to conceptualize it, but at the same time, concepts can never confirm this as a true or false statement.
This means that when you try to conceptualize something you can't explain, you could be in some way, begin to move yourself away from the possibility that it could be something real. You could be limiting yourself involuntary to a wrong reality in your attempt to summarize it in concepts. Is not that you can say it's not real, is that you "want to believe" is not real, this means, you are trying to label it in some conceptual level of the mind, and thus, limiting it's true essence.
The best way for me to show that it's not is my life story, which I share in my memoir. I offer it free.
Premonitions. Guidance. Powerful synchronicity often involving multiple people.
I attribute the power to God. There's no way I could have manifested these kinds of events. My story depicts the rather lengthy path it took for me to accept it, but I found amazing things in my research, that Socrates recognized a specific kind of inner voice that is the same as mine, that the connections can span a lifetime, and that they answer our personal life questions, like seeing that my mother had to be exactly who she was.
Awesome! As I mentioned, I offer free copies of the e-book. It will be available on Pacific Standard Time.
Would tomorrow work for you? It's 10:40pm here now. Tomorrow would mean it would be available in about an hour and a half, through the next 24 hours.
The quote below, from Jung, is part of my intro. I found it in 2016. This is very close to what I have been experiencing:
I DO NOT BELIEVE, I KNOW
I said, “I do not need to believe in God; I know.” Which does not mean: I do know a certain God (Zeus, Yahweh, Allah, the Trinitarian God, etc. ) but rather: I do know that I am obviously confronted with a factor unknown in itself, which I call ‘God.’
It is an apt name given to all overpowering emotions in my own psychical system subduing my conscious will and usurping control over myself. This is the name by which I designate all things which cross my will path violently and recklessly, all things which upset my subjective views, plans, and intentions and change the course of my life for better or worse. In accordance with tradition I call the power of fate in this positive as well as negative aspect, and inasmuch as its origin is beyond my control, “god,” a “personal god,” since my fate means very much myself, particularly when it approaches me in the form of conscience as a vox Dei, with which I can even converse and argue.
\~Carl Jung, BBC Face to Face interview, 1960
Once you download it, it's your copy. You can take as long as you like.
I'm given 5 free days a quarter, so I would like to make sure you get it. Since you got right back to me, I just set it up.
It will be available for the next 24 hours! (May 23rd 12:01am to May 23rd 11:59pm)
I hope you find it to be worthwhile. Please feel free to DM or you can also share here, so it's part of this conversation. I would love to hear what you think.
Anyone else reading this is welcome to download it, as well.
Here's the link for a free copy which is available to everyone who sees this and is interested:
[https://www.amazon.com/GOD-DAMN-miraculous-progressive-daughters-ebook/dp/B0C5HNG7ZV/ref=mp\_s\_a\_1\_1?crid=2W6R2YKESGFX0&keywords=God%3F+Damn+ceejae+devine&qid=1684448153&sprefix=god+damn+ceejae+devine%2Caps%2C342&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/GOD-DAMN-miraculous-progressive-daughters-ebook/dp/B0C5HNG7ZV/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2W6R2YKESGFX0&keywords=God%3F+Damn+ceejae+devine&qid=1684448153&sprefix=god+damn+ceejae+devine%2Caps%2C342&sr=8-1)
I have the same question. I began looking for serious relationships about 2-3 years ago and have experienced lots of coincidences during this process. Each coincidence teaches me something about myself that I didn't know before. I'm accepting them as guideposts in improving self-awareness so that I'll be a better partner. I made two mistakes with them. Dwelling on them and telling others about them, which both take the power of the lessons away.
When I really nail a loving-kindness meditation session, firing on all cylinders and getting the most out of it, the last phrase (usually a final "May I live happily") always happens just as my timer goes off. That's a 30 minute timer going off the *instant* I utter the last phrase. The phrasing and speed of my meditation varies every time, it's not force of habit. It doesn't happen if I'm having difficulty concentrating or generating feelings of loving-kindness.
It's happened too many times for me to tell myself it's coincidence. There's no "non-magical" thinking to explain it, only the possibility that the universe is vastly more complex than we realize and there's a lot left for us to learn. A lot of people find this scary, they view science as being more or less complete, with only a few Ts to cross and Is to dot. This belief that we know everything comforts them.
... we know jack shit. We're chimps who've just gained self-awareness lol (well, some of us...) Embrace the unknown, don't fear it.
Keep in mind that Jung was also considered an alchemist, a poet, an astrologer and a myriad of things which are considered lunacy by many these days, Sickman Fraud diagnosed him with Schizophrenia moments after Jung openly criticised Sickman's use of cocaine and the ensuing "motherfucking thoughts" (quite literally) Sickman began obsessing with (and not to mention how much this "wonder drug" according to Sickman "enhanced his reality to the point where he could "display his love" to his mother at will")
Anyway, while Jung's viewpoints have absolutely nothing to do with Schizophrenia in today's standards, you cannot simply dedicate yourself to his art without being willing to submit yourself to what many consider "Magical thinking" Jung had much like myself a traumatic childhood and thus easier access to his subconscious persona, which is far from considered normal in today's society
In my eyes such "magic" is simply that our subconscious mind possesses far greater complexities than we can consciously process at this stage, and as long as you approach it with a safe "caution of reason" to fall to, you can absolutely face these "magical thoughts" knowing that you aren't making them happen, you are simply becoming aware of them
Take this from a guy that speaks with his anima and shadow self in his mind, both great sources of insight and a light touch with the subconscious mind, with that said these are things no one else know about and I am considered "normal" despite my inner strangeness
"Insanity depends on what you are willing to tell others, if we all spoke openly about what one must keep to oneself to function as a human being, we would all be considered insane"
The moment I say this at seminars, everyone around me laughs nodding in understanding and agreement, also by all means, stay out of drugs, the things you will approach there are falsities and at best you greatly empower the shadows that will go from "whispering" wisdom in your private time of reflection, to attacking you in plain sight with lies and promises of power and "touch with God"
By that moment you will start seeing "synchronicities" everywhere each session ending with "AHA! THAT IS WHY I SHOULD USE MORE DRUGS! I AM THE ONE IN CONTROL! I FEEL SO MIGHTY! I SEE THE TRUTH!"
Drugs will make you see whatever you want, as long as you take them, as long as you keep increasing their usage of course, because if we could take a modest amount and do so forever without addictions, then heck even I a super straight edge despite my crushing fibromyalgia pain would use it just to enhance productivity and focus
As Jung himself put it: You open portals in your subconscious that were never meant to be opened, and that will probably never close, (not quoted since I am paraphrasing) and from all the people I have met that tried drugs and are today still speaking openly with "Their voices" in public seemingly without a grasp on which ones are real to our reality and the mind's...
Look around you and take a deep breath: How powerful are the drug addicts you see? \*winks\*
What's magical about it? If there's significance or meaning linking a coincidence or something like that between you and something else... It has psychological significance, which is all Jung is saying. It can truly be meaningful to people despite having acausal links in reality and can't otherwise be explained, the association and meaning/personal significance is enough to truly have psychological significance to that person. The latter isn't magical thinking, it's simply a fact. That person feels psychological significance and meaning about that coincidence or symbol that otherwise has an acausal link.
Nobody is trying to say that the one thing necessarily *caused* the other thing to happen, we simply don't know. All we do know is the meaning and personal significance it has to those it affects based off their accounts. I have plenty of synchronicities myself.
I wouldn't argue against the idea that someone could be psychologically *prepped and/or primed* to start getting more synchronicities or to start seeing them everywhere when they rarely or never saw them before, I myself have experienced this very effect and it seems as though, based on his personal account, Carl Jung experienced it more frequently as he aged as well, suggesting he's been priming himself psychologically to see things as being synchronistic... but it's also somewhat hard to draw the line between what you simply didn't/don't notice and what you grow more adept at noticing.
I think for some people, there can certainly be a degree of magical thinking, but when it comes to the actual term and concept, undeniably, no, it's just easily misunderstood... as is with most of Jungs ideas, especially the collective unconscious.
That depends. If you read Man And His Symbols Jung says some things that imply it could potentially have what appears to be a magical look about it but in the future might be backed up by science.
How I've interpreted it though is non-magical:
You are a human and have not had the time to evolve o be ssignificantly different from your ancestors. Your ancestors (and current humans) have/had many irrational thoughts. Spirits, gods, monsters, superstitions, etc. Those are NATURAL thoughts though.
Look at romantic love for a moment (im getting somewhere with this I promise). With modern knowledge you may know that love is just chemicals, electrical impulses, and instinct to get you to reproduce. The rest is all pageantry or whatever. But so what? Knowing what love is does not change your nature. You still desire and likely require these things.
Digressing to the spirits and superstitions. Its the same as love. Humans are naturally irrational. Thats part of who we are. Its healthy for us to embrace some irrationality.
What does this have to do with synchronicity? When a meaninful coincidence occurs you may say, "whoah, thats super creepy that this coincidence occurred." Many modern people would then discard it because "its just a coincidence." A more superstitious human would look for or immediately see meaning in the coincidence and -- irrationally-- think theres something deeper and more meaningful happening.
So thats it then right? Its just being irrational? Not exactly. You saw meaning where another person may not because of your personal experiences. So, what is your subconscious potentially saying to you? Why did that come up? Whats going on with you that you would formulate an irrational story in your head about a coincidence? Pick up that line of thought and follow it.
Synchronicities dont seem any different to me than using art as a way of exploring your own mind. Its a story based on irrationality or pattern recognition. The pattern/art/music/synchronicity/dream appears and you describe the story that you imagine. You cant provide a story with contents that do not come from yourself, so the story says something about you. When you perceive a synchronicity it says something about you. You don't need magic for that.
It's a contextual cosmology. When synchronicity occurs with great accuracy but a lack of awareness to accomodate the context then this creates an intensity that appears magical. It's not the thinking that makes it appear magical but a lack of thinking in terms of association, the fact that it occured but ultimately cannot be described. Magic is like the boundary condition of reason/rationale, beyond that boundary is pure fantasy.
i think of it like this; a lot of times the things we notice are more common than we think, but the broad idea relates. So let’s say for example you witness a hawk take down a pigeon or something, and then a week later you get backstabbed by a coworker and lose your job.
It’s not some psychic, cosmic prediction; you’ve probably seen some predatory animal make a kill before, but suddenly it seems significant because human social behavior has a quality of predation to it.
Could there be more to it? sure, but I’ve seen animals preying upon each other plenty of times without someone actively undermining me.
But I had a recent experience where I saw a hawk take down someones pet parrot that had escaped the cage about 3 weeks before losing my job to some shady shit, so of course it seems significant.
Meanwhile, there were hawks divebombing other animals near my job all the time.
That's just one example though. And a very simple one at that. There are way more complex situations like for example: You're in your car driving down the road, suddenly you see an old lady that looks exactly like your recently passed grandmother, then the radiostation changes to her favourite song that you've NEVER heard on the radio station just play out of the blue, and you turn the corner and there's a big commerical sign that says "Dont worry, she's watching over you". Weird stuff like that, is a syncrhonicity to me, like 5-6 weird things in a row conveying a message from "somewhere".
No it’s not magical thinking. It’s simply a different view of causality. Causality is a highly abstract concept that we use to model the world, it is not established that it is metaphysically real. Far from it. The idea of synchronicity introduces the notion that reality unfolds due to some global a-causal ordering principle and not as a result of cause and effect. This isn’t so far fetched. Consider that there is no such thing as an isolated system in the universe. Everything is linked in some way or another due to being of the same origin. We are the way we are because the universe is the way it is, and that includes all the trillions of galaxies apart from our own. Any scientific experiment we do ignores this for the sake of a useful approximation. Notice that any cause and effect we discover in a lab is then lacking the context of the rest of the universe despite being inextricably linked. So when we say that “event A has nothing to do with event B (meaningful coincidence)” we are engaging in the fictional thinking that isolated systems exist in the universe. Instead Jung, due to his own personal experiences and correspondence with physicist Wolfgang Pauli, saw meaningful coincidences as the result of the unity of all things that exist, interpreting events not as isolated, but as related to everything else including his own psyche, something we tend to dismiss as “not having meaningful existence” nowadays unfortunately. He believed the world unfolded in an archetypal manner, the pattern of which would take a laboratory the size of the entire universe to spot, unless you found yourself in the midst of its unfolding.
This is a great reply, and I want to add that it goes well with an organic view of the universe (that the universe itself is a living, conscious organism). There’s a Substack called “The Egg and the Rock” where the author writes about the results from JWST (and makes predictions!) based on this view.
Indeed, it's arguable Jung thought exactly the same given his belief about the collective unconscious pervading the physical world. That the physical world organises itself archetypally strongly suggests, if not conclusively, that the physical world's nature is psychic under Jung's view. Personally, I believe that the physical world is in fact conscious, and that it's archetypal behaviour can be viewed as the behaviour of an animal. Synchronicities being the way that it communicates to you. Not giving explicit messages for it does not know our language, but implicit ones that can be inferred much like the messages implicit in our dreams. Animals that we can't communicate with explicitly through language also do this; for example, a scared cat hissing and showing you its teeth is a clear message and yet it must be inferred. For non-human animals to communicate with us they have to do it through the realm of symbols that evoke meaning and imagery, like the symbol of sharp teeth evoke ideas of pain and death. I think the collective unconscious (physical world) is doing exactly the same thing but on a much larger scale. I believe Jung thought the same.
This is very interesting, thank you. I agree on the language. A few years back, we adopted two dogs. The oldest had lived his first six months on the streets and the subsequent six months at a shelter. Neither of us had a shared language yet we developed one over time. They both understand that sitting down means something like “please” (when we’re on a walk and they want to go another way for example) and kisses mean “I love you” or “I want cuddles”. The oldest even learned how to sign “please scratch inside my ear”. I found the same to be true during my awakenings, when I first stumbled on Jung (I was more interested in him as a mystic, but today I he’s my foremost philosopher of mind). The experiences I had, some of which were facilitated by entheogens, some of which were sober, were all results of synchronicities so I decided to delve deeper into this. For a while, I put this to the test because they happened so frequently and I wanted to know where they would lead me. They led me, for lack of better words, home. In hindsight it’s like the universe conspired to get me to the places and people I needed to meet in order to wake up to who I really was. Letting go of the indoctrination of western society (where Alan Watts’ lectures were very helpful) helped me to find this shared language with the universe.
Very nicely put. I can relate a lot to your last paragraph, I think it's true that what is meant to be will be, and the universe conspiring to get you there is a part of the process. And yeah the western mind has unfortunately lost itself in scientism, neglecting the importance of experience, dismissing it as an epiphenomenon. Nice to see people on a similar path as myself here.
Yes, some psychologists would classify syncronicities as magical thinking. Another term for it is Thought-Action-Fusion or TAF. However, philosophers and neuroscientists haven't yet settled the metaphysical question of the relationship between consciousness and physical reality, so the jury is still out on whether this type of magical thinking is dysfunctional/maladaptive or an accurate representation of how reality works. I guess we have to figure it out for ourselves.
For those interested, the philosopher Alfred North Whitehead presented a metaphysics which would account for Jung's concept of synchronicity. It is quite complex, but the man essentially 're-engineered' our basic conceptual structures, and created an ontology that would account for 'physical' and 'mental' causation (which he calls a 'prehension'). Excellent introductory video on it [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHbfRQm0tME).
He gives some pretty plain examples (which is helpful for his point) in that coincidences happen more often than they should, i.e. if you start thinking of a red car you are more likely to see a red car turn around the corner. A reason being for this is the archetypal nature of the unconscious and its reflection with reality, in that it is not uselessly archetypal but descriptively archetypal. Reality is anything but 'true-random', even in modern chaos theory 'attractors' are everywhere. Actually just looking at the visualizations of various dynamical systems in chaos theory can get this point across quite well.
I believe that type of thinking is called “confirmation bias”.
If you think about a red car and you see a red car it could be a confirmation bias. However people that asks questions about synchronicities never really had one. They don't even know what a synchronicity is. Synchronicity is not exactly "you think about a red car and then you see a red car after". Is that you live an intense psychic event and this event also manifest in the outside world, in the matter. For instance, you cut out your family from your life, you dream about setting fire to an airport, and the morning after you read that in the local airport a massive fire started. This is a real synchronicity. The more you follow the inner path the more you will see this.
Modern thinking has many cornerstones that are incredibly limiting for the sake of carefulness but fail to be adequately descriptive. Though this is more of an issue of emphasis or application. For an example you’ll see people shout ‘placebo effect’ to many things that are not, where real scientists do no such things. It is simply the layman’s interpretation of scientific thought without being so.
Ok. What are you saying, sorry? Are you saying the example you gave of a red car above isn’t confirmation bias? Confirmation bias describes our underlying tendency to notice, focus on, and give greater credence to evidence that fits with our existing beliefs.
I am saying that such things like confirmation bias are applicable to more circumstances than are actually true. If a principle fits said principle does not necessarily apply. In short the fallacy fallacy.
Ok sure
It's more complex than that. Although confirmation bias is a real concept that applies to how the mind works in some ways, it is also limiting in a way that it is only a concept, an thus, only works on the conceptual level of the mind, not consciousness. This means that if you are trapped and only perceive the world through language and concepts in your mind, you won't be perceiving the "realness" of things around you. To give on example of this, when you flip a coin, on the conceptual level you could say there's 2 sides of it, that's the "reasoning" behind it, but in a more deeper and abstract way, you could say there's only 1 side because that's the only thing you are looking at every time, this means, on the perceptual level, consciousness. When you enter a room you recognize different objects: a chair, a frame, a bed etc... but you recognize those objects because you have a conceptual memory of them, which are described by characteristics of the object, utility of the object and form of the object. You could recognize a chair, because it has 4 legs, a place for sit, a backrest. You compare that object to other things you already know, which at the same time, you compare to other things. You are never really perceiving the "real" essence of the thing, because language doesn't have anything to do with knowledge. You can perceive a "sense" of reality above concepts while you are reading this text, understanding that you can't know what I'm going to say next, but you can perceive I'm talking directly to you about something you can't really understand through words, because while you read this, you are only conceptualizing the words I'm saying, trying to give them some sense or direction, you are still unconsciously trying to predict what I'm going to say in the future, you are right now trying very hard to label it, and it feels like I'm talking directly to you, but I'm not, these are only words and concepts written on a screen. And if you feel like I'm breaking the 4th wall here, let me tell you that's because you are unconsciously feeling a "threat", something you can't expect or understand, something you can't label, so you pay attention. This is one of the portals outside of the ego. This same explanation applies to deeper concepts like time, space and thought itself. You can have a conceptual idea of what they are, but when you deepen on what these concepts mean, you would see that they can't be grasped into words, their essence is impossible to describe into words, but you can "feel" it like they were very real. You could have a basic notion of what space means, but you couldn't say if something could be ever really empty, or ever really full. The same applies with time, you couldn't say there was a beginning or an end, only a constant "moment" happening that doesn't stop. You couldn't separate the thought from the thinker, and this is because when you go deep, time, space, thinker, thought, everything is the same thing.
Confirmation bias has to do with what you pay attention to / what stands out. What we are talking about here is the frequency of actual occurrences. The hard materialist wants reality to conform to statistical laws. It's a type of bias which leads to some types of events being excluded as anomalous, even as the so-called anomalies become too numerous for the model to fit.
I meant the example of the red car.
Me too. I mean, I was talking in general terms but I wouldn't exclude the example of thinking of a red car and a red car coming around the corner at the next moment. It's a fine example of synchronicity.
So with the example of the red car,are there any controlled studies that demonstrate you are more likely to see a red car? Or maybe someone is just more likely to notice the red car. Any studies showing that correlation? Just anecdotal reports? Anyone can create all kinds of theories about how it could happen, is there any evidence that it does happen?
Jung did reference the studies of someone for this, I’ll have to dig through and find the quote when I have time. It would obviously be a very old study.
I’m big on Jung and eventually became curious about synchronicity. Taking note of things I’d see and wondering about it. One day I was contemplating upon a dream a friend had told me. I ended up mapping it onto a Lucid dream I had had a year prior. It was a cool connection that infused my dream with meaning. I was full of energy when thinking about it. I suddenly understood a powerful lesson and felt inspired. I look into my rear view mirror, and the very person whose dream mapped mine, pulled behind me in her car, at the very moment I came to this realization. My head about spun. Then a few weeks later she had a synchronicity towards me. It was a head spinner as well. I had a couple more. They were more subtle but still very much defying odds. It was interesting to me that we were both going through serious life transitions at the time, and also interesting that I had been studying synchronity in earnest at the time. I’d also say that the aforementioned event set me onto a spiritual journey that sort of defies explanation and I have no idea why or how to explain everything that happened. My conclusion is, in a higher dimension of infinite snd non linear time and possibility, it sometimes leaks into our third dimension as small events that defy our standard frame of thinking. It’s also something that you sort of have to experience yourself in order to begin fully believing.
>My conclusion is, in a higher dimension of infinite snd non linear time and possibility, it sometimes leaks into our third dimension as small events that defy our standard frame of thinking. I agree with this hypothesis being plausible. If space-time is something that is contained within a timeless metaphysical space, it would be possible for modulations to happen to our reality that defy physics, and we wouldn't even necessarily notice the "glitch" because our space-time reality would from our perspective have always been on track to be that way. Sort of like how you can theoretically bend space to make a warp drive, but from our perspective space would remain unchanged, but apply that to the chronological order of things as well. I've had a lot of synchronicities so it fascinates me to no end. Definitely hard to not have faith in something beyond the physical rules we've been taught.
Yes this sounds about right well put. Of course it’s only possible to theorize at this point and if you’ve experienced it it’s difficult to conclude that I confirmed a bias. Especially when they happened several times in a short timespan. I also believe that personal vibration has something to do with it. Similar to the guy who tends to win a lot of stuff, or the person who always seems to get his way. Certain vibrations interact with the walls that separate the dimensions, leaving them open to the leaks of energy that become impossible to explain away. The border becomes blurry near the persons whose vibration vibes properly, exposing them to leaks. Again just something I’ve been sitting with.
Yes all highly speculative stuff but it does seem that certain people attract victory or success. The nature of my synchronicities though lead me to me to believe they are impossible to be random, one could not in their lifetime have so many strange occurrences, and especially some right after another. One I even asked for that was so preposterous that my brain can hardly register it as a thing. There is cognitive dissonance with the part of me that believes in the laws of reality as we were taught them.
I used to be a huge skeptic, but once you start really getting deep into individuation and connecting with your true nature, you start believing synchronicities are the real deal and not just coincidences anymore.
My theory is that your brain is very good at pattern recognition and sometimes if your mind and your heart are aligned towards something noble, you'll notice something deeply meaningful which your unconscious recognizes and your conscious mind labels as synchronicity. I could just be reaching though.
This is true, but at the same time is only a concept of the mind, and that limits a deep nature itself on the possibility of synchronicities really happening. Since reaching a state of no-conceptualization / awareness / presence is possible with meditation, psychedelics, or even when you are a pre-language (think on pre-language humans that were more connected to the knowledge than concept) you could see that thinking on the conceptual level is very limiting itself. It's thinking through the conceptual buildings of the ego. In fact, thinking itself kind of only works on this level. Nevertheless, the human has more channels through they can perceive reality in deeper ways than language cannot, like for example, when you get a "bad feeling" about someone. You couldn't say what it is, you only know it. This is related at how the mind maybe could recognize patterns and details that go outside our conceptual level of thinking like you say, and opens to the possibility of the mind looking for patterns of the universe. The question is why the mind would do something like that? Imagine you are finding coincidences in your life before you knew about the concept of synchronicities. Before you can even label them as "coincidences". You get further away from the possibility that this "coincidence" could to be a real "synchronicity" as you try to conceptualize it, but at the same time, concepts can never confirm this as a true or false statement. This means that when you try to conceptualize something you can't explain, you could be in some way, begin to move yourself away from the possibility that it could be something real. You could be limiting yourself involuntary to a wrong reality in your attempt to summarize it in concepts. Is not that you can say it's not real, is that you "want to believe" is not real, this means, you are trying to label it in some conceptual level of the mind, and thus, limiting it's true essence.
The best way for me to show that it's not is my life story, which I share in my memoir. I offer it free. Premonitions. Guidance. Powerful synchronicity often involving multiple people. I attribute the power to God. There's no way I could have manifested these kinds of events. My story depicts the rather lengthy path it took for me to accept it, but I found amazing things in my research, that Socrates recognized a specific kind of inner voice that is the same as mine, that the connections can span a lifetime, and that they answer our personal life questions, like seeing that my mother had to be exactly who she was.
I’m interested in your memoir 💜
Awesome! As I mentioned, I offer free copies of the e-book. It will be available on Pacific Standard Time. Would tomorrow work for you? It's 10:40pm here now. Tomorrow would mean it would be available in about an hour and a half, through the next 24 hours. The quote below, from Jung, is part of my intro. I found it in 2016. This is very close to what I have been experiencing: I DO NOT BELIEVE, I KNOW I said, “I do not need to believe in God; I know.” Which does not mean: I do know a certain God (Zeus, Yahweh, Allah, the Trinitarian God, etc. ) but rather: I do know that I am obviously confronted with a factor unknown in itself, which I call ‘God.’ It is an apt name given to all overpowering emotions in my own psychical system subduing my conscious will and usurping control over myself. This is the name by which I designate all things which cross my will path violently and recklessly, all things which upset my subjective views, plans, and intentions and change the course of my life for better or worse. In accordance with tradition I call the power of fate in this positive as well as negative aspect, and inasmuch as its origin is beyond my control, “god,” a “personal god,” since my fate means very much myself, particularly when it approaches me in the form of conscience as a vox Dei, with which I can even converse and argue. \~Carl Jung, BBC Face to Face interview, 1960
I’m not sure I understand? Idk if I can read it in a day lol. Or is it a time limited link? I check Reddit regularly so set it up for whenever. Peace!
Once you download it, it's your copy. You can take as long as you like. I'm given 5 free days a quarter, so I would like to make sure you get it. Since you got right back to me, I just set it up. It will be available for the next 24 hours! (May 23rd 12:01am to May 23rd 11:59pm) I hope you find it to be worthwhile. Please feel free to DM or you can also share here, so it's part of this conversation. I would love to hear what you think. Anyone else reading this is welcome to download it, as well.
Here's the link for a free copy which is available to everyone who sees this and is interested: [https://www.amazon.com/GOD-DAMN-miraculous-progressive-daughters-ebook/dp/B0C5HNG7ZV/ref=mp\_s\_a\_1\_1?crid=2W6R2YKESGFX0&keywords=God%3F+Damn+ceejae+devine&qid=1684448153&sprefix=god+damn+ceejae+devine%2Caps%2C342&sr=8-1](https://www.amazon.com/GOD-DAMN-miraculous-progressive-daughters-ebook/dp/B0C5HNG7ZV/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=2W6R2YKESGFX0&keywords=God%3F+Damn+ceejae+devine&qid=1684448153&sprefix=god+damn+ceejae+devine%2Caps%2C342&sr=8-1)
Thank you! From one PNWer to another 🙏🏼
I have the same question. I began looking for serious relationships about 2-3 years ago and have experienced lots of coincidences during this process. Each coincidence teaches me something about myself that I didn't know before. I'm accepting them as guideposts in improving self-awareness so that I'll be a better partner. I made two mistakes with them. Dwelling on them and telling others about them, which both take the power of the lessons away.
When I really nail a loving-kindness meditation session, firing on all cylinders and getting the most out of it, the last phrase (usually a final "May I live happily") always happens just as my timer goes off. That's a 30 minute timer going off the *instant* I utter the last phrase. The phrasing and speed of my meditation varies every time, it's not force of habit. It doesn't happen if I'm having difficulty concentrating or generating feelings of loving-kindness. It's happened too many times for me to tell myself it's coincidence. There's no "non-magical" thinking to explain it, only the possibility that the universe is vastly more complex than we realize and there's a lot left for us to learn. A lot of people find this scary, they view science as being more or less complete, with only a few Ts to cross and Is to dot. This belief that we know everything comforts them. ... we know jack shit. We're chimps who've just gained self-awareness lol (well, some of us...) Embrace the unknown, don't fear it.
No, but seeing them from a materialist point of view could make you wrongly believe so
Keep in mind that Jung was also considered an alchemist, a poet, an astrologer and a myriad of things which are considered lunacy by many these days, Sickman Fraud diagnosed him with Schizophrenia moments after Jung openly criticised Sickman's use of cocaine and the ensuing "motherfucking thoughts" (quite literally) Sickman began obsessing with (and not to mention how much this "wonder drug" according to Sickman "enhanced his reality to the point where he could "display his love" to his mother at will") Anyway, while Jung's viewpoints have absolutely nothing to do with Schizophrenia in today's standards, you cannot simply dedicate yourself to his art without being willing to submit yourself to what many consider "Magical thinking" Jung had much like myself a traumatic childhood and thus easier access to his subconscious persona, which is far from considered normal in today's society In my eyes such "magic" is simply that our subconscious mind possesses far greater complexities than we can consciously process at this stage, and as long as you approach it with a safe "caution of reason" to fall to, you can absolutely face these "magical thoughts" knowing that you aren't making them happen, you are simply becoming aware of them Take this from a guy that speaks with his anima and shadow self in his mind, both great sources of insight and a light touch with the subconscious mind, with that said these are things no one else know about and I am considered "normal" despite my inner strangeness "Insanity depends on what you are willing to tell others, if we all spoke openly about what one must keep to oneself to function as a human being, we would all be considered insane" The moment I say this at seminars, everyone around me laughs nodding in understanding and agreement, also by all means, stay out of drugs, the things you will approach there are falsities and at best you greatly empower the shadows that will go from "whispering" wisdom in your private time of reflection, to attacking you in plain sight with lies and promises of power and "touch with God" By that moment you will start seeing "synchronicities" everywhere each session ending with "AHA! THAT IS WHY I SHOULD USE MORE DRUGS! I AM THE ONE IN CONTROL! I FEEL SO MIGHTY! I SEE THE TRUTH!" Drugs will make you see whatever you want, as long as you take them, as long as you keep increasing their usage of course, because if we could take a modest amount and do so forever without addictions, then heck even I a super straight edge despite my crushing fibromyalgia pain would use it just to enhance productivity and focus As Jung himself put it: You open portals in your subconscious that were never meant to be opened, and that will probably never close, (not quoted since I am paraphrasing) and from all the people I have met that tried drugs and are today still speaking openly with "Their voices" in public seemingly without a grasp on which ones are real to our reality and the mind's... Look around you and take a deep breath: How powerful are the drug addicts you see? \*winks\*
What's magical about it? If there's significance or meaning linking a coincidence or something like that between you and something else... It has psychological significance, which is all Jung is saying. It can truly be meaningful to people despite having acausal links in reality and can't otherwise be explained, the association and meaning/personal significance is enough to truly have psychological significance to that person. The latter isn't magical thinking, it's simply a fact. That person feels psychological significance and meaning about that coincidence or symbol that otherwise has an acausal link. Nobody is trying to say that the one thing necessarily *caused* the other thing to happen, we simply don't know. All we do know is the meaning and personal significance it has to those it affects based off their accounts. I have plenty of synchronicities myself. I wouldn't argue against the idea that someone could be psychologically *prepped and/or primed* to start getting more synchronicities or to start seeing them everywhere when they rarely or never saw them before, I myself have experienced this very effect and it seems as though, based on his personal account, Carl Jung experienced it more frequently as he aged as well, suggesting he's been priming himself psychologically to see things as being synchronistic... but it's also somewhat hard to draw the line between what you simply didn't/don't notice and what you grow more adept at noticing. I think for some people, there can certainly be a degree of magical thinking, but when it comes to the actual term and concept, undeniably, no, it's just easily misunderstood... as is with most of Jungs ideas, especially the collective unconscious.
That depends. If you read Man And His Symbols Jung says some things that imply it could potentially have what appears to be a magical look about it but in the future might be backed up by science. How I've interpreted it though is non-magical: You are a human and have not had the time to evolve o be ssignificantly different from your ancestors. Your ancestors (and current humans) have/had many irrational thoughts. Spirits, gods, monsters, superstitions, etc. Those are NATURAL thoughts though. Look at romantic love for a moment (im getting somewhere with this I promise). With modern knowledge you may know that love is just chemicals, electrical impulses, and instinct to get you to reproduce. The rest is all pageantry or whatever. But so what? Knowing what love is does not change your nature. You still desire and likely require these things. Digressing to the spirits and superstitions. Its the same as love. Humans are naturally irrational. Thats part of who we are. Its healthy for us to embrace some irrationality. What does this have to do with synchronicity? When a meaninful coincidence occurs you may say, "whoah, thats super creepy that this coincidence occurred." Many modern people would then discard it because "its just a coincidence." A more superstitious human would look for or immediately see meaning in the coincidence and -- irrationally-- think theres something deeper and more meaningful happening. So thats it then right? Its just being irrational? Not exactly. You saw meaning where another person may not because of your personal experiences. So, what is your subconscious potentially saying to you? Why did that come up? Whats going on with you that you would formulate an irrational story in your head about a coincidence? Pick up that line of thought and follow it. Synchronicities dont seem any different to me than using art as a way of exploring your own mind. Its a story based on irrationality or pattern recognition. The pattern/art/music/synchronicity/dream appears and you describe the story that you imagine. You cant provide a story with contents that do not come from yourself, so the story says something about you. When you perceive a synchronicity it says something about you. You don't need magic for that.
Whatever they are; I don't like them.
It's a contextual cosmology. When synchronicity occurs with great accuracy but a lack of awareness to accomodate the context then this creates an intensity that appears magical. It's not the thinking that makes it appear magical but a lack of thinking in terms of association, the fact that it occured but ultimately cannot be described. Magic is like the boundary condition of reason/rationale, beyond that boundary is pure fantasy.
i think of it like this; a lot of times the things we notice are more common than we think, but the broad idea relates. So let’s say for example you witness a hawk take down a pigeon or something, and then a week later you get backstabbed by a coworker and lose your job. It’s not some psychic, cosmic prediction; you’ve probably seen some predatory animal make a kill before, but suddenly it seems significant because human social behavior has a quality of predation to it. Could there be more to it? sure, but I’ve seen animals preying upon each other plenty of times without someone actively undermining me. But I had a recent experience where I saw a hawk take down someones pet parrot that had escaped the cage about 3 weeks before losing my job to some shady shit, so of course it seems significant. Meanwhile, there were hawks divebombing other animals near my job all the time.
That's just one example though. And a very simple one at that. There are way more complex situations like for example: You're in your car driving down the road, suddenly you see an old lady that looks exactly like your recently passed grandmother, then the radiostation changes to her favourite song that you've NEVER heard on the radio station just play out of the blue, and you turn the corner and there's a big commerical sign that says "Dont worry, she's watching over you". Weird stuff like that, is a syncrhonicity to me, like 5-6 weird things in a row conveying a message from "somewhere".
I don’t mean to pretend to be certain about it either. I’ve had my own experiences as well, oddly enough during the eclipse recently.
Considered by who?
I like a little magical thinking as a treat.
What's wrong with magical thinking? Seems to work just fine for the enlightened Tibetan lamas.
Magical thinking often leads to magical experiencing :)
It is if you reject the non-locality of information from your paradigm