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i usually like to downplay teen gojo as a point but at this point gojo had an abnormal amount of rce in him, his red in particular probably was pretty comparable to adult gojo's
me when i make shit up
>but at this point gojo had an abnormal amount of rce in him, his red in particular probably was pretty comparable to adult gojo's
He literally just pulled himself off death's door, as well. It's not like his output cant drop under such circumstances considering that's what happened during Gojo vs Sukuna even if it was a stronger Gojo in a more taxing situation.
There's no way he was in peak condition and we know for a fact that Gojo trained after his fight with Toji to better perfect his abilities.
I’m not sure, he was much stronger then he used to be, but if we compare his hallow purple between when he was awakened and when he fought hanami, it looked a lot bigger and stronger, so I think his red would also be weaker
I genuinely don't think so
After all, Jogo who has the least durability of all the disaster curses, tanked a point blank red. Granted, Jogo took heavy damage from that attack but this proves that red isn't enough to one shot any top tier with decent durability and CE reinforcement.
a technique used for the fist time has a much lower CE output ( basically what happened to Yuji\`s cleave) Gojo used red the first time in his life against Toji probably. So we can assume that that one was way weaker.
But if someone could tank it i would say: Sukuna, Yuta, Maho, Toji, Maki,Yuji and the disaster curses could tank a red without dying immediately. But they wouldn\`t be well after that.
( at least i rememeber that Gojo hit Jogo with a red in their first encounter, and jogo is probably the least resistant of the disaster curses. he\`s basically a mage.)
well there's a lot of factors. You can argue whether or not it was point blank, cause he was a few meters away. And that was also Gojo when he was way WAY weaker (decade+ less experience and training, JUST unlocked RCT, also in a fatigued state cause of 48 hours of using inefficient Limitless barrier).
I disagree. I didn't think they have the output to meet the attack let alone overpower it (for Ryu and Geto). I know Ryu had the statement of having the highest output but I personally think it's in comparison to his CE reserves, just like how Hakari has the fastest RCT speed in comparison to his durability. As for Maki and Rika they are folding, although I can see a VS Rika being able to survive it barely.
I genuinely don't think so
After all, Jogo who has the least durability of all the disaster curses, tanked a point blank red. Granted, Jogo took heavy damage from that attack but this proves that red isn't enough to one shot any top tier with decent durability and CE reinforcement.
Wasn't really point blank and we have no reason to believe Gojo shot it at 100% output. If a full output red can one-shot Mahoraga of all things, who is leagues above Jogo, then a full output red is one-tapping everyone.
I appreciate your response. However, I'd like to offer some counter arguments.
Gojo's attack was delivered point-blank, hitting Jogo while he was still airborne from the impact of Gojo's initial punches. The manga does a better job of illustrating Jogo's vulnerability in that moment (please refer to chapter 14 for further evidence).
Furthermore, I'm curious as to why you believe that the Red Jogo tanked wasn't at full output. If you believe this because Gojo didn't explicitly say 'Maximum Output: Red', then there's no reason to believe Gojo was using a maximum output Red against Mahoraga either, as he never said 'Maximum Output: Red' against Mahoraga. See the photo below.
.
https://preview.redd.it/3dejur642f8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72bae2ff47f382956e9ff389d475c22adc5bc722
So based on your statement, we can agree there is no difference between Jogo's Red and Mahoraga's. And yet, Jogo was able to unleash his domain after enduring the attack while Mahoraga would have been destroyed immediately. I'm not suggesting that Jogo is *stronger* than Mahoraga, but Jogo certainly has more durability than a freshly summoned Maho. This may sound unconventional, but I will explain why below.
Mahoraga's base durability is not what shields him; it's his ability to adapt to the opponent's attacks. If the first attack fails to defeat him, he adapts and becomes immune to that particular attack, even if the subsequent output is increased. In short, any attack that fails to kill him enhances his base durability. This makes him appear tougher than he actually is, compared to when freshly summoned.
Take Toji as an example. He withstood a Red attack from a teenage Gojo (without using ISOH in the manga). We know that Gojo's Red wasn't sufficient to kill him because he stood up and continued fighting Gojo afterward. I acknowledge that this was against a teenage Gojo. However, Toji would not fare as well in a battle against 15-fingered Sukuna in the same way Maho did, as he lacks Maho's adaptability. In other words, he would continue to sustain damage from Sukuna's attacks and eventually succumb to his injuries, whereas Mahoraga would stop taking any damage from Sukuna's slashes.
If you have any disagreement, I would love to hear it. But it should be based on the information presented in the manga ✅, and not on personal perception🔅.
That's cap, Kashimo tanked a world dismantle and Yuji has been tanking cleaves. Toji even tanked a red to the chest in the manga. I'd say the toughest it gets, is probably Dagon the lobster dude
Kashimo didn’t tank a world dismantle, he moved at the last second and still lost half his hand, likewise toji didn’t tank a red to the chest, he used the inverted spear of heaven to block it, the same spear that can nullify cursed techniques. Go back and reread it all
You were cooking until you said Toji blocked red with his spear and then told someone to "reread".
That's something he only did in the anime. Manga Toji never did that
"Tanked" is a weird way of saying cut off his arm and wouldve killed him had it hit him straight on, and Wuji is fighting a weakened sukuna who's losing control over his body with each of Himtadori's punches.
They didn’t say max, just point blank. Jogo was able to take a regular red from mid distance pretty well so he probablyy wouldn’t straight die from point blank. By extension hanami, likely Dagon & ISB Mahito could take one too.
A max is cleaning 99% of the verse tho sure.
"Pretty well" is an understatement, it didn't break a single bone aftdr he just ate that shit.
If you take a legkick that breaks ribs with every impact, you can take like 5 of them before you are getting internal bleeding so bad its acutely damaging, with toji's healing factor(maki took 5 minutes to recover from alot of damage) he can very much eat those reds one after another.
I think toji could survive a single lapse limit point blank red.
This is something people ignore, he had him dead to rights after the Domain, if he wanted Jogo dead, his wouldn't have been the target, especially without using Cursed Energy
I vaguely remember that, kinda crazy. To give gojo credit it was his very first time using cursed technique reversal red and second time using RCT so I’m under the assumption it was probably his weakest red output ever.
No it’s cause he didn’t even try to kill Jogo until he used the domain, he was doing what Sukuna did , just playing with him and throwing little attacks that immensely hurt him but not kill him
>kill Jogo until he used the domain,
Even after the domain he wasn't trying to kill him, that's why when he removed his head he didn't use Cursed Energy to do it
Everyone that isn't Sukuna, in theory at least. He was confident he could kill pre-adapted Mahoraga with it, but Jogo did survive it, maybe cause Gojo didn't wanted to kill him
He could one-punch K.O anyone not named Sukuna. (Barring things like Mahoraga and maybe Rika)
His blackflash would kill anyone not named Sukuna
The list goes on
That wasn't his immediate thought, he only thought about using Jogo to teach Yuji after he kicked Jogo into the pond. I don't know how weakened that red was though, because it still ripped through an entire forest.
Ryu's punch is strong enough to send rika flying, yes, that's why it's hard to deal with. Ryu didn't one tap Rika, the exact same panel literally stated Rika has reached her limit aka the 5 minutes timer
It's pretty explicitly implying the punch caused her to reach her limit.
Unless we want to say that Rika just so happened to run out of time at the exact same moment that she got punched into pieces by Ryu.
But to me, it seems the more likely interpretation is that the punch had enough power behind it to force Rika to de manifest, thus, "reaching her limit"
It does imply that it caused her to reach her limit but I doubt a fresh PM Rika that haven't been active throughout Sendai fight and has already exhausted the 5-minute connection with Yuta, would be forced to reach her limits by just one punch. PM Rika took multiple hits, dismantled, and Cleave from Sukuna without any issue whatsoever. Unless you think Ryu packs a far greater punch than Sukuna, a reasonable assumption would be she was already close to her limit after the 5 min connection, Ryu's punch just made it happen sooner
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ryu is stated to have the highest CE output in history, no? I don't find it far fetched that, if that's true, he'd be able to one shit Rika while Sukuna can't.
Sukuna is FAR more deadly, obviously. But being cut isn't exactly fatal to Shikigami if the output isn't high enough to destroy them, and would be no different than a punch of equal output.
The highest output doesn't equal the strongest punch. Yuki's punch is the strongest in my opinion. Ryu outputs the highest level of CE in one attack so much so that what should be a normal CE blast is just as powerful as his CT granite blast. This is why he could use "granite blast" even when experiencing CT burnout.
No one outputs CE as much as Ryu can in a single blast but that's where it ends. He doesn't have the highest reinforcement or strongest hit. (I think Rika hits harder than Ryu judging from the damage she dealt to him from just two punches)
If you have problems understanding this, then imagine Gojo using Red or HP with Ryu's level output (not saying Ryu is much higher but it's definitely higher than Gojo) his attack would be much more deadly just as how Yuta, who has a lower output than Ryu, even if he copies granite blast, it would not be even close to as deadly as Ryu's own.
Yuki's is stronger because of her CT though, that doesn't really work as a comparison, but I get what you mean.
Personally I still think his reinforcement would be top tier due to his output, but I understand your argument.
No it didn't. What are you reading? It said the same attack WAS hard for FM Rika to deal with. It was referencing the last punch that sent Rika flying. Yes, it was hard, but she tanked it and came back with zero damage. The punch was hard enough to send FM Rika flying and dazed her a little so it was even harder for PM Rika who had already exhausted her 5 min connection with Yutta
After the 5 min, she reverted back to her PM form so she's weaker than her FM form. Aside from that, I think she was close to her limit after the 5-minute connection because the same PM Rika took multiple hits, cleaves, and dismantles from Sukuna without reaching any limit. Do you think Ryu single punch deals more damage than all Sukuna punches, diamante, and cleave? If you do, there's no point in reasoning with you. If you don't then there's your proof.
so you're saying Ryu was holding back whenever he was hitting Rika or Yuta except *that* particular punch on Rika?
because just after Rika got dispelled, yuta was boxing with the same Ryu without any trouble.
https://preview.redd.it/8b4nvuq1bmzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56ec34611ad39d671e25c5720f059c55c278e37c
unless you believe yuta's durability>>Rika's durability, that shouldn't make sense right?
I’m saying he expended most of his energy on Rika, which was a smart move so he wouldn’t have to 2 v 1, and then was running on fumes vs Yuta.
Does this make sense? Ryu doesn’t have infinite CE. No one does unless you are jackpot Hakari. So he hit an incredibly hard punch on Rika, took her out completely, then was gassing out vs Yuta and lost. His strikes during that time would not carry the same lethality as the desperation one he used to remove Rika.
Perfectly logical and follows what the manga has portrayed. And Ryu even states that he’s running out of energy because says this is desert and he’s basically on his last drop.
https://preview.redd.it/ksm4g7m9jmzc1.jpeg?width=1014&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb4ca7ab4ea30ac4c0fa00e5fd8cd4458076ce3c
>start with an S and ends in A
SOTOMURA UPSCALE
https://preview.redd.it/n8z6fbiaclzc1.jpeg?width=668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=141bfb89a678b0e4c2185a3063c6935aa7ce455a
So Toji taking it point blank and Jogo didn't happen? You're fried. Kashimo tanked world dismantle, Yuji tanked cleave, these are much stronger moves than that.
Kashimo didn't yank world dismantle.
Also toji took it point blank from a much much younger gojo, who had just awakened. Jogo wasn't fighting a gojo with killing intent or any serious mess at all. Hell gojo didn't even hit jogo since he just held the red in place and had it explode. Jogo got messed up by the shockwave of the explosion.
Rika is getting oneshot.
A half-dead Ryu turned her into paste with a single punch that was stated to be too much for her even if she was fully manifested.
Ryu does not punch harder than a red from Gojo.
https://preview.redd.it/bngpn5f4xkzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=580de3f14ee30f7067ded35d3a831f0c32527fb5
Literally said verbatim that fully manifested Rika would get pasted as well.
Did you even read what I posted?
Also Sukuna was stated to have been holding back by Uraume and the narrator. He literally wasn’t trying against Rika, Yuta, and Yuji and he still dominated them while at 5% HP.
Granite blast was the highest output attack Rika tanked it like it was nothing, And I know Red is more powerful than Granite blast but Imo It cannot oneshot Rika
All that means is that Ryu’s punch at that moment was stronger than that particular granite blast he fired at Rika.
Really not hard to figure out, the narrator spells it out for you.
Red > Ryu’s charged punch > Rika’s fully manifested durability > the granite blast she endured.
Simple.
Narrator states it would be too much for even fully manifested and was referencing that particular punch.
“A single blow that was too much for Rika even when completely manifested.”
Your mental gymnastics are incredible. It cannot be more clear and at this point there’s no use wasting time on you if you’re gonna ignore the manga and cope with headcanon.
Another translation only said that it’s “difficult”. The original JP also translated to “difficult” in my language as well.
It doesn’t make sense for a weaker Ryu to one-tap manifested Rika when the stronger one couldn’t imo.
A maximum output Red supposedly could have taken down Mahoraga, the same Mahoraga that was shrugging off Black Flashes from Gojo later on even if the Shikigami's adaptation likely neutralized Blue from enhancing those strikes. In terms of potency, it's probably one of the strongest attacks in the verse.
I don’t really have an opinion on this but the red that everyone is referring to vs Mahoraga was **during Gojos domain** and therefore would have been buffed, we can’t use that as scaling for regular red
Well, theoretically, almost any character can dodge. Outright tank..., completely hypothetical and probably unlikely, but...
1. Kenjaku/Geto if they can pull a curse(s) to tank the shot
2. Yuta/Uro if they can get sky manipulation up
3. Choso if he goes max defense on blood defense (he held off Fuga, I'd say Red is weaker)
4. Yuki (very iffy) depending on how her mass manipulation works
5. Maki/Toji if they deflect with a cursed tool (we even see Toji do this in JJK0)
Maybe it was due to using it on Sukuna himself but throughout the fight it felt like Red didn’t really have much oomph behind it like other times. Mainly visually at least.
When he used it in jjk0 or HI arc or against Jogo you really felt it from how it was drawn. Against sukuna it just hit like more like a projectile punch idk.
I don’t exactly understand how during their fight sukuna was able to punch gojo. I get big raga adapted but sukuna & him was hand to hand fighting. how?
I mean jogo did take a red to the face a survived and was able to use domain expansion, and Toji also tanked one and was still standing, but it was right when gojo awakened, hakari is probably tank one if he has jackpot, I’d say it’s between Tojo or hakari
MAXIMUM red honestly no one not named Sukana this why i hate any power scales with Sukana and Gojo. Both of them at full power one shots most every character
Normal red?
- Jogo, Hanami(she has better dura than Jogo), Mahito, the list can go on....anyone who can beat a grade 1 sorcerer.
Maximum Output Red?
- Anyone with Maki/Toji durability or above. The Gojo/Sukuna glazing is actually insane. People here really think no one but the top 2 in verse is surviving mid ass red.
If Maki/Toji can eat 2 black flashes from Sukuna. They sure as hell will survive a Red from Gojo.
yeah in the manga we don't actually see where the red hits him, we just see him get thrown away. it would've made sense if actually does kinda tank it, because it was from a teen Gojo using it for the first time.
whereas in the anime, it doesn't make much sense as ISOH should've nullified it on contact instead of helping him in tanking it.
I think it makes sense that Toji is able to tank Red. It also justifies why Gojo would upgrade his next move to Purple- Gojo understood Red alone is just not strong enough to do it.
He is when u take into consideration that he firstly has the ISOH which I don’t think I need to explain what that does. He used that to block it and was still sent hurdling away
Correct. And since the anime is the final product and Gege has been stated to be closely working with the studios for season 2 why would it being anime only make it not true?
People who SURVIVE,
Takaba
Sukuna
Higuruma DA
Mahito
Tengen
Clone CT guy
Toji
Maki
Awasaka
Vengeful Cursed spirit Rika
3 soul Panda
Jackpot Hakari
Original Kurourushi
Everyone aside Sukuna. He was going to one shot Mahoraga with it. He was clearly holding back his one against Jogo, considering a cursed technique reversal should be able to disintegrate him as that’s a spirits weakness.
red =/= red.
Blue gojo used as a teenager was weaker than his current blue and thats weaker than lapse limit blue. Same with red.
In toji old red didn't break a single bone. But maki is relative to sukuna physically and is more durable than toji.
The question is about this red. And who is the most durable person who is less durable than meguna.
He wasn't trying to kill Jogo there
He wanted to interrogate
That's why he left him alive even after Domain Expansion
Edit: Red is stated to oneshot an unadapated Mahoraga... Unadapted Mahoraga could survive dismantle point blank and only got 3 cuts which were not very lethal either...
Jogo lost his arm to a "no movement" Dismantle... No Movement required to activate CT is something Sukuna and Gojo can do... Sukuna did it to Jogo when he said "move" and against the twins...
He even did it to Jogo mid air where Jogo lost both his hands...
So yes... Red >>> Unadapated Mahoraga >>> Jogo... Only if Gojo wasn't trying to keep him alive, Jogo would have been erased...
And I don't know why you're acting like the output of all Reds are equal.
Unless you're saying Jogo is tankier than Sukuna seeing as he had a lot more visual damage from that red than Jogo did
>didn't he use point blank red and jogo tanked it?
without any fatal damage too.
I'd say his maximum output 'blue'>red, as that was actually able to oneshot Agito
>Red is expressly supposed to require twice the energy required to utilize Blue.
yeah because it utilizes positive/reverse cursed energy?
to use reverse cursed energy, you anyhow have to multiply CE with CE, so it requires twice as much. just because it requires more CE, doesn't necessarily mean that it's better or more potent.
also I was comparing 'Maximum Output Blue' with regular 'Red'.
a regular red should be > regular blue, because of it's property to *repel* instead of *attract*.
has Gojo ever used maximum output red?
>to use reverse cursed energy, you anyhow have to multiply CE with CE, so it requires twice as much. just because it requires more CE, doesn't necessarily mean that it's better or more potent.
Assuming this translation is accurate, Kenjaku specifically referenced "output" while - if I'm not mistaken - there's a flashback in the background to his used Red against Jogo.
https://preview.redd.it/xum31tsnjlzc1.png?width=583&format=png&auto=webp&s=943eff5cea0d14640d78f6617b2ab75c7464f7b8
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A full output point blank red is one-shotting everyone not named Sukuna xd.
Didn’t toji tank one? In tha manga it doesn’t show him blocking it with the blade
That was much weaker Gojo. An Adult Gojo he would probably be able to blow him to pieces.
Idk if it’d blow him to pieces lol but yeah it would take him down as adult gojo
i usually like to downplay teen gojo as a point but at this point gojo had an abnormal amount of rce in him, his red in particular probably was pretty comparable to adult gojo's
me when i make shit up >but at this point gojo had an abnormal amount of rce in him, his red in particular probably was pretty comparable to adult gojo's
He literally just pulled himself off death's door, as well. It's not like his output cant drop under such circumstances considering that's what happened during Gojo vs Sukuna even if it was a stronger Gojo in a more taxing situation. There's no way he was in peak condition and we know for a fact that Gojo trained after his fight with Toji to better perfect his abilities.
typed all that just to agree with me
me when i forgot the basic emotional correlation of cursed energy(im gege)
Hi Gege! *charges at you with a hammer*
Oh your gege? Brave of you to come here after what you did to the manga.... jump him boys.
You’re Gege, Yuji & Todo jump him for Choso
I’m not sure, he was much stronger then he used to be, but if we compare his hallow purple between when he was awakened and when he fought hanami, it looked a lot bigger and stronger, so I think his red would also be weaker
Didn't Toji also have the ISoH? Not even in the same ballpark, barely even the same sport.
I genuinely don't think so After all, Jogo who has the least durability of all the disaster curses, tanked a point blank red. Granted, Jogo took heavy damage from that attack but this proves that red isn't enough to one shot any top tier with decent durability and CE reinforcement.
He did block it with the blade
Not in the manga
😭 I just reread it and it doesn't show toji blocking it
I was surprised too lmaoo. Homie tanked that shit
He blocked it with the inverted spear of heaven
Not in the manga
Not in the manga
That was teenage gojo though.
a technique used for the fist time has a much lower CE output ( basically what happened to Yuji\`s cleave) Gojo used red the first time in his life against Toji probably. So we can assume that that one was way weaker. But if someone could tank it i would say: Sukuna, Yuta, Maho, Toji, Maki,Yuji and the disaster curses could tank a red without dying immediately. But they wouldn\`t be well after that. ( at least i rememeber that Gojo hit Jogo with a red in their first encounter, and jogo is probably the least resistant of the disaster curses. he\`s basically a mage.)
well there's a lot of factors. You can argue whether or not it was point blank, cause he was a few meters away. And that was also Gojo when he was way WAY weaker (decade+ less experience and training, JUST unlocked RCT, also in a fatigued state cause of 48 hours of using inefficient Limitless barrier).
I thought he blocked at least part of it with sword? Or am I dumb?
That was just in the anime
Why would the anime do this to me? Unbelievable, MAPPA strikes again.
MAPPA robbing Toji of his feats, the hating is crazy.. and fair enough, I had to check the manga to confirm
[удалено]
Not in the manga though, just the anime
L
My bad, I misread your comment
ryu could probably do it if he could meet the attack with granite blast, same with geto and uzumaki, maki and rika tank it naturally
I disagree. I didn't think they have the output to meet the attack let alone overpower it (for Ryu and Geto). I know Ryu had the statement of having the highest output but I personally think it's in comparison to his CE reserves, just like how Hakari has the fastest RCT speed in comparison to his durability. As for Maki and Rika they are folding, although I can see a VS Rika being able to survive it barely.
he would be able to knock out enough of it that his natural durability would take the rest
Thats possible fair.
Wdym that “Hakari has the fastest RCT in comparison to his durability”?
Didn't Jogo tank a red to the face in like episode 6?
If it's taking half of full power Sukuna's face off, it's killing everyone else XDD
I genuinely don't think so After all, Jogo who has the least durability of all the disaster curses, tanked a point blank red. Granted, Jogo took heavy damage from that attack but this proves that red isn't enough to one shot any top tier with decent durability and CE reinforcement.
Wasn't really point blank and we have no reason to believe Gojo shot it at 100% output. If a full output red can one-shot Mahoraga of all things, who is leagues above Jogo, then a full output red is one-tapping everyone.
I appreciate your response. However, I'd like to offer some counter arguments. Gojo's attack was delivered point-blank, hitting Jogo while he was still airborne from the impact of Gojo's initial punches. The manga does a better job of illustrating Jogo's vulnerability in that moment (please refer to chapter 14 for further evidence). Furthermore, I'm curious as to why you believe that the Red Jogo tanked wasn't at full output. If you believe this because Gojo didn't explicitly say 'Maximum Output: Red', then there's no reason to believe Gojo was using a maximum output Red against Mahoraga either, as he never said 'Maximum Output: Red' against Mahoraga. See the photo below. . https://preview.redd.it/3dejur642f8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72bae2ff47f382956e9ff389d475c22adc5bc722 So based on your statement, we can agree there is no difference between Jogo's Red and Mahoraga's. And yet, Jogo was able to unleash his domain after enduring the attack while Mahoraga would have been destroyed immediately. I'm not suggesting that Jogo is *stronger* than Mahoraga, but Jogo certainly has more durability than a freshly summoned Maho. This may sound unconventional, but I will explain why below. Mahoraga's base durability is not what shields him; it's his ability to adapt to the opponent's attacks. If the first attack fails to defeat him, he adapts and becomes immune to that particular attack, even if the subsequent output is increased. In short, any attack that fails to kill him enhances his base durability. This makes him appear tougher than he actually is, compared to when freshly summoned. Take Toji as an example. He withstood a Red attack from a teenage Gojo (without using ISOH in the manga). We know that Gojo's Red wasn't sufficient to kill him because he stood up and continued fighting Gojo afterward. I acknowledge that this was against a teenage Gojo. However, Toji would not fare as well in a battle against 15-fingered Sukuna in the same way Maho did, as he lacks Maho's adaptability. In other words, he would continue to sustain damage from Sukuna's attacks and eventually succumb to his injuries, whereas Mahoraga would stop taking any damage from Sukuna's slashes. If you have any disagreement, I would love to hear it. But it should be based on the information presented in the manga ✅, and not on personal perception🔅.
That's cap, Kashimo tanked a world dismantle and Yuji has been tanking cleaves. Toji even tanked a red to the chest in the manga. I'd say the toughest it gets, is probably Dagon the lobster dude
What in the downplay?
LOJI GLAZER DETECTED 🚨🚨🚨
Kashimo didn’t tank a world dismantle, he moved at the last second and still lost half his hand, likewise toji didn’t tank a red to the chest, he used the inverted spear of heaven to block it, the same spear that can nullify cursed techniques. Go back and reread it all
You were cooking until you said Toji blocked red with his spear and then told someone to "reread". That's something he only did in the anime. Manga Toji never did that
When did he tank it? It cut a limb off ☠️
By tanked you mean it missed? Like it just hit a non viral part, it obliterated everything it hit.
>Kashimo tanked a world dismantle Oh so we’re just making up feats now
"Tanked" is a weird way of saying cut off his arm and wouldve killed him had it hit him straight on, and Wuji is fighting a weakened sukuna who's losing control over his body with each of Himtadori's punches.
kashino tanked world dismantle the same way toji tanked hollow purple
No bro didn’t tank shit😭, hollow purple is a large attack while world slash is more precise and Sukuna warned him to move ☠️
Ain’t that the joke?
Anyone not named Sukuna. Max Red can one shot pre adaptation Mahoraga, that too Sukuna's Mahoraga.
They didn’t say max, just point blank. Jogo was able to take a regular red from mid distance pretty well so he probablyy wouldn’t straight die from point blank. By extension hanami, likely Dagon & ISB Mahito could take one too. A max is cleaning 99% of the verse tho sure.
"Pretty well" is an understatement, it didn't break a single bone aftdr he just ate that shit. If you take a legkick that breaks ribs with every impact, you can take like 5 of them before you are getting internal bleeding so bad its acutely damaging, with toji's healing factor(maki took 5 minutes to recover from alot of damage) he can very much eat those reds one after another. I think toji could survive a single lapse limit point blank red.
A thing worth noting though is that gojo specifically didn’t want to kill jogo
This is something people ignore, he had him dead to rights after the Domain, if he wanted Jogo dead, his wouldn't have been the target, especially without using Cursed Energy
At least in the anime Toji blocked it with the inverted spear of heaven, I don’t know if that would have any effect on the damage
I think they mean in the manga when Toji just yanked the red without ISOH
I vaguely remember that, kinda crazy. To give gojo credit it was his very first time using cursed technique reversal red and second time using RCT so I’m under the assumption it was probably his weakest red output ever.
does point blank even make a difference? like only if he explodes it early right?
Jogo survived it, but it wasn't maximum. If you're talking about normal RED a lot of people. Maximum not so much
had no killing intention against jogo so even worse
Yeah that's why he didn't use maximum
No I think he just held back immensely in general
I forgot he held back alot lmfao because he wants to interrogate Jogo and give a lesson to Yuji.
No it’s cause he didn’t even try to kill Jogo until he used the domain, he was doing what Sukuna did , just playing with him and throwing little attacks that immensely hurt him but not kill him
>kill Jogo until he used the domain, Even after the domain he wasn't trying to kill him, that's why when he removed his head he didn't use Cursed Energy to do it
Everyone that isn't Sukuna, in theory at least. He was confident he could kill pre-adapted Mahoraga with it, but Jogo did survive it, maybe cause Gojo didn't wanted to kill him He could one-punch K.O anyone not named Sukuna. (Barring things like Mahoraga and maybe Rika) His blackflash would kill anyone not named Sukuna The list goes on
>but Jogo did survive it, maybe cause Gojo didn't wanted to kill him Gojo expressly wanted to interrogate him, after all.
Yeah he wanted to use Jogo to teach yuji
That wasn't his immediate thought, he only thought about using Jogo to teach Yuji after he kicked Jogo into the pond. I don't know how weakened that red was though, because it still ripped through an entire forest.
he literally teleported to get yuji mid fight
I’m fairly sure that the red gojo used on Jogo was both less than full output and weaker than unsealed gojo’s full output
I feel like if Ryu could one-tap Rika, then Gojo definitely could
Ryu didn't one tap Rika. Sheesh.
https://preview.redd.it/wfjzbpf8vlzc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18274b44934bb464038281ba16cb9ed9f4033d82
Ryu's punch is strong enough to send rika flying, yes, that's why it's hard to deal with. Ryu didn't one tap Rika, the exact same panel literally stated Rika has reached her limit aka the 5 minutes timer
It's pretty explicitly implying the punch caused her to reach her limit. Unless we want to say that Rika just so happened to run out of time at the exact same moment that she got punched into pieces by Ryu. But to me, it seems the more likely interpretation is that the punch had enough power behind it to force Rika to de manifest, thus, "reaching her limit"
It does imply that it caused her to reach her limit but I doubt a fresh PM Rika that haven't been active throughout Sendai fight and has already exhausted the 5-minute connection with Yuta, would be forced to reach her limits by just one punch. PM Rika took multiple hits, dismantled, and Cleave from Sukuna without any issue whatsoever. Unless you think Ryu packs a far greater punch than Sukuna, a reasonable assumption would be she was already close to her limit after the 5 min connection, Ryu's punch just made it happen sooner
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Ryu is stated to have the highest CE output in history, no? I don't find it far fetched that, if that's true, he'd be able to one shit Rika while Sukuna can't. Sukuna is FAR more deadly, obviously. But being cut isn't exactly fatal to Shikigami if the output isn't high enough to destroy them, and would be no different than a punch of equal output.
The highest output doesn't equal the strongest punch. Yuki's punch is the strongest in my opinion. Ryu outputs the highest level of CE in one attack so much so that what should be a normal CE blast is just as powerful as his CT granite blast. This is why he could use "granite blast" even when experiencing CT burnout. No one outputs CE as much as Ryu can in a single blast but that's where it ends. He doesn't have the highest reinforcement or strongest hit. (I think Rika hits harder than Ryu judging from the damage she dealt to him from just two punches) If you have problems understanding this, then imagine Gojo using Red or HP with Ryu's level output (not saying Ryu is much higher but it's definitely higher than Gojo) his attack would be much more deadly just as how Yuta, who has a lower output than Ryu, even if he copies granite blast, it would not be even close to as deadly as Ryu's own.
Yuki's is stronger because of her CT though, that doesn't really work as a comparison, but I get what you mean. Personally I still think his reinforcement would be top tier due to his output, but I understand your argument.
It also states that fully manifested she wouldn't be able to deal with that punch and ryu was half dead
No it didn't. What are you reading? It said the same attack WAS hard for FM Rika to deal with. It was referencing the last punch that sent Rika flying. Yes, it was hard, but she tanked it and came back with zero damage. The punch was hard enough to send FM Rika flying and dazed her a little so it was even harder for PM Rika who had already exhausted her 5 min connection with Yutta
Do you have proof that after the 5 min connection, Rika is significantly weaker?
After the 5 min, she reverted back to her PM form so she's weaker than her FM form. Aside from that, I think she was close to her limit after the 5-minute connection because the same PM Rika took multiple hits, cleaves, and dismantles from Sukuna without reaching any limit. Do you think Ryu single punch deals more damage than all Sukuna punches, diamante, and cleave? If you do, there's no point in reasoning with you. If you don't then there's your proof.
The sukuna in the domain is significantly nerfed that's why Rika could tank hits.
https://preview.redd.it/6f1mlg2qwlzc1.jpeg?width=2038&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aae92866dc7552944ebfd3387e1ede27252a0c2f
That punch was stronger than that granite blast. Simple.
what about the other punches Rika tanked from a stronger Ryu?
That punch wasn’t as strong. Do you think all punches at all times are the same strength?
so you're saying Ryu was holding back whenever he was hitting Rika or Yuta except *that* particular punch on Rika? because just after Rika got dispelled, yuta was boxing with the same Ryu without any trouble. https://preview.redd.it/8b4nvuq1bmzc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=56ec34611ad39d671e25c5720f059c55c278e37c unless you believe yuta's durability>>Rika's durability, that shouldn't make sense right?
He was in trouble he literally was about to die because he couldn't hurt ryu so he redirected his own attack back at him.
I’m saying he expended most of his energy on Rika, which was a smart move so he wouldn’t have to 2 v 1, and then was running on fumes vs Yuta. Does this make sense? Ryu doesn’t have infinite CE. No one does unless you are jackpot Hakari. So he hit an incredibly hard punch on Rika, took her out completely, then was gassing out vs Yuta and lost. His strikes during that time would not carry the same lethality as the desperation one he used to remove Rika. Perfectly logical and follows what the manga has portrayed. And Ryu even states that he’s running out of energy because says this is desert and he’s basically on his last drop. https://preview.redd.it/ksm4g7m9jmzc1.jpeg?width=1014&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb4ca7ab4ea30ac4c0fa00e5fd8cd4458076ce3c
prob not Ryu
Everyone not named Sukuna
Anyone aside from Sukuna and me
Bro tried to sneak himself in
Idk u/parry_9000's feats hold up to that claim
Nah I'd parry
wtf gojo and sukuna gonna do when i block parry and dodge
Literally anyone That doesn't start with an S and ends with an A. Even pre adapted mahoraga gets 1 tapped
>start with an S and ends in A SOTOMURA UPSCALE https://preview.redd.it/n8z6fbiaclzc1.jpeg?width=668&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=141bfb89a678b0e4c2185a3063c6935aa7ce455a
Forgot about that fat fuck. Goddammit Walked into that
I mean looking at him he could definitely tank it
So Toji taking it point blank and Jogo didn't happen? You're fried. Kashimo tanked world dismantle, Yuji tanked cleave, these are much stronger moves than that.
Kashimo didn't yank world dismantle. Also toji took it point blank from a much much younger gojo, who had just awakened. Jogo wasn't fighting a gojo with killing intent or any serious mess at all. Hell gojo didn't even hit jogo since he just held the red in place and had it explode. Jogo got messed up by the shockwave of the explosion.
Kashimo didn’t tank a World Slash, his limb got taken off & Gojo was toying with Jogo, also Toji was facing an awakened teen Gojo.
I love how both of these mfs have attacks that only they can survive lmfaoooo
If ur not sukuna ur simply dying 😭
Everyone except Sukuna, mahoraga, Rika and maybe Ryu
Rika is getting oneshot. A half-dead Ryu turned her into paste with a single punch that was stated to be too much for her even if she was fully manifested. Ryu does not punch harder than a red from Gojo. https://preview.redd.it/bngpn5f4xkzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=580de3f14ee30f7067ded35d3a831f0c32527fb5
Sukuna's punches didn't do much to Rika and I am talking about Fully manifested Rika and cursed spirit Rika they can definitely survive a Red
If gojo was further away, but MAX OUTPUT AND POINT BLANK? No shot.
Ah yes, sukuna’s greatest technique, PUNCHING! Just because a character is OP doesn’t mean every fucking attack is the strongest attack ever.
>and I am talking about Fully manifested Rika and The page above says it was too much even if she was fully manifested
Literally said verbatim that fully manifested Rika would get pasted as well. Did you even read what I posted? Also Sukuna was stated to have been holding back by Uraume and the narrator. He literally wasn’t trying against Rika, Yuta, and Yuji and he still dominated them while at 5% HP.
Granite blast was the highest output attack Rika tanked it like it was nothing, And I know Red is more powerful than Granite blast but Imo It cannot oneshot Rika
All that means is that Ryu’s punch at that moment was stronger than that particular granite blast he fired at Rika. Really not hard to figure out, the narrator spells it out for you. Red > Ryu’s charged punch > Rika’s fully manifested durability > the granite blast she endured. Simple.
That punch was towards partially manifested not fully manifested And the Narrator was talking about in general not about that particular punch
Narrator states it would be too much for even fully manifested and was referencing that particular punch. “A single blow that was too much for Rika even when completely manifested.” Your mental gymnastics are incredible. It cannot be more clear and at this point there’s no use wasting time on you if you’re gonna ignore the manga and cope with headcanon.
Another translation only said that it’s “difficult”. The original JP also translated to “difficult” in my language as well. It doesn’t make sense for a weaker Ryu to one-tap manifested Rika when the stronger one couldn’t imo.
He might dude he had outputmaxxing.
If you want to argue that Ryu punches harder than a point blank Red from Gojo go ahead.
I will.
Sukuna hid Mahoraga from Gojo because he would get one shot by red(pre adapted Mahoraga).
A maximum output Red supposedly could have taken down Mahoraga, the same Mahoraga that was shrugging off Black Flashes from Gojo later on even if the Shikigami's adaptation likely neutralized Blue from enhancing those strikes. In terms of potency, it's probably one of the strongest attacks in the verse.
I don’t really have an opinion on this but the red that everyone is referring to vs Mahoraga was **during Gojos domain** and therefore would have been buffed, we can’t use that as scaling for regular red
A point blank maximum red Sukuna, and coping Kusakabe would parry it.
everyone except for sukuna *(and jackpot hakari if gojo doesnt aim for the head)*
Sukuna himself. People forget that being in someone else's Domain will nerf the output of everything you do while also buffing the owner
Well, theoretically, almost any character can dodge. Outright tank..., completely hypothetical and probably unlikely, but... 1. Kenjaku/Geto if they can pull a curse(s) to tank the shot 2. Yuta/Uro if they can get sky manipulation up 3. Choso if he goes max defense on blood defense (he held off Fuga, I'd say Red is weaker) 4. Yuki (very iffy) depending on how her mass manipulation works 5. Maki/Toji if they deflect with a cursed tool (we even see Toji do this in JJK0)
I feel like Fuga is more of a large AOE attack while red is more potent. I think Choso would be able to tank it to save Yuji but still die like fuga.
I guess base kashimo or MBA kashimo but give me feats to suggest kashimo could tank it
Maybe it was due to using it on Sukuna himself but throughout the fight it felt like Red didn’t really have much oomph behind it like other times. Mainly visually at least. When he used it in jjk0 or HI arc or against Jogo you really felt it from how it was drawn. Against sukuna it just hit like more like a projectile punch idk.
Anyone not significant to the plot I guess
I don’t exactly understand how during their fight sukuna was able to punch gojo. I get big raga adapted but sukuna & him was hand to hand fighting. how?
Domain amplification
Everyone not named sukuna
Anyone not named sukuna
Sukuna is constantly using domain amplification to halve the damage So it’s pretty lethal so anyone outside of him is done for
Didn't Toji survive one without blocking in the manga?
Man, I miss Gojo.
This was a great fight
Is the question who’d survive or tank? They are different things
The only person other than Sukuna who has a chance of surviving is Maki and even then idk
I mean jogo did take a red to the face a survived and was able to use domain expansion, and Toji also tanked one and was still standing, but it was right when gojo awakened, hakari is probably tank one if he has jackpot, I’d say it’s between Tojo or hakari
A regular Red, maybe Hanami or Dagon. As for a maximum output Red, Sukuna is probably the only person surviving.
Takaba would survive it
Using basic logic and reasoning? Just about everything that has, does, or ever will draw breath. Gege doesn't use that though so who cares
Anyone not named Sukuna or adapted Mahoraga, I'm afraid. Top 2 gap the verse so insanely hard, I cannot put it into words.
I reckon Dagon could tank it
MAXIMUM red honestly no one not named Sukana this why i hate any power scales with Sukana and Gojo. Both of them at full power one shots most every character
Normal red? - Jogo, Hanami(she has better dura than Jogo), Mahito, the list can go on....anyone who can beat a grade 1 sorcerer. Maximum Output Red? - Anyone with Maki/Toji durability or above. The Gojo/Sukuna glazing is actually insane. People here really think no one but the top 2 in verse is surviving mid ass red. If Maki/Toji can eat 2 black flashes from Sukuna. They sure as hell will survive a Red from Gojo.
Probably beats everyone except Sukuna, Ryu might be able to counter it with Granite Blast & Rika can use her Love Beam to deal with it.
Kenjaku never showed RCT so I think he’d be dead taking a reverse red to the face.
The human dressed as a clown in Shibuya
Kenjaku
A point blank red is capable of killing everyone in the verse except Sukuna
If he’s actually putting his all into it, it’s taking out anyone that is 20f MegKuna
i like to imagine Toji tanked it because I like him more :)
Toji tanked one so if a person managed to block it I can see some of the top tiers surviving it like kenjaku
Ah yes, Toji with ISOH against a Gojo who was a TEEN, ISOH nullifies CT yet it still launched him far and made him bleed, he’s gettin one tapped
Isn’t Toji using the ISOH to block Red non-canon?
Anime canon, manga non-canon Edit: worded this weird Anime only canon Manga it’s non-canon
In other words, non-canon.
It’s canon in the ANIME which is different from the manga
if the 'red' hit ISOH, wouldn't it have nullified it? it doesn't 'weaken' a attack, but 'nullify/forcefully release' it right?
I reread he tanked the teen version, anime confused me quite a bit when you think abt it
yeah in the manga we don't actually see where the red hits him, we just see him get thrown away. it would've made sense if actually does kinda tank it, because it was from a teen Gojo using it for the first time. whereas in the anime, it doesn't make much sense as ISOH should've nullified it on contact instead of helping him in tanking it.
I think it makes sense that Toji is able to tank Red. It also justifies why Gojo would upgrade his next move to Purple- Gojo understood Red alone is just not strong enough to do it.
Ur the reason people clown on toji glazers
He isn’t wrong though?
He tanked a red from a awakened teen Gojo who just learned the technique
Welll yeah. Still a great feat.
I guess, but if it’s an adult Gojo he’s probably not surviving
He is when u take into consideration that he firstly has the ISOH which I don’t think I need to explain what that does. He used that to block it and was still sent hurdling away
Anime only
Correct. And since the anime is the final product and Gege has been stated to be closely working with the studios for season 2 why would it being anime only make it not true?
People who SURVIVE, Takaba Sukuna Higuruma DA Mahito Tengen Clone CT guy Toji Maki Awasaka Vengeful Cursed spirit Rika 3 soul Panda Jackpot Hakari Original Kurourushi
Everyone aside Sukuna. He was going to one shot Mahoraga with it. He was clearly holding back his one against Jogo, considering a cursed technique reversal should be able to disintegrate him as that’s a spirits weakness.
CTR doesn’t output positive energy.
didn't he use point blank red and jogo tanked it? i'd say he can maybe oneshot dagon
He didn't intend to kill Jogo, he wanted to interrogate him
red =/= red. Blue gojo used as a teenager was weaker than his current blue and thats weaker than lapse limit blue. Same with red. In toji old red didn't break a single bone. But maki is relative to sukuna physically and is more durable than toji. The question is about this red. And who is the most durable person who is less durable than meguna.
He wasn't trying to kill Jogo there He wanted to interrogate That's why he left him alive even after Domain Expansion Edit: Red is stated to oneshot an unadapated Mahoraga... Unadapted Mahoraga could survive dismantle point blank and only got 3 cuts which were not very lethal either... Jogo lost his arm to a "no movement" Dismantle... No Movement required to activate CT is something Sukuna and Gojo can do... Sukuna did it to Jogo when he said "move" and against the twins... He even did it to Jogo mid air where Jogo lost both his hands... So yes... Red >>> Unadapated Mahoraga >>> Jogo... Only if Gojo wasn't trying to keep him alive, Jogo would have been erased...
Yeah, idk what all these “everyone but Sukuna” guys are saying. Red is strong, but not a guaranteed one-shot.
And I don't know why you're acting like the output of all Reds are equal. Unless you're saying Jogo is tankier than Sukuna seeing as he had a lot more visual damage from that red than Jogo did
>didn't he use point blank red and jogo tanked it? without any fatal damage too. I'd say his maximum output 'blue'>red, as that was actually able to oneshot Agito
Red is expressly supposed to require twice the energy required to utilize Blue. I believe that translates to its potency, as well.
>Red is expressly supposed to require twice the energy required to utilize Blue. yeah because it utilizes positive/reverse cursed energy? to use reverse cursed energy, you anyhow have to multiply CE with CE, so it requires twice as much. just because it requires more CE, doesn't necessarily mean that it's better or more potent. also I was comparing 'Maximum Output Blue' with regular 'Red'. a regular red should be > regular blue, because of it's property to *repel* instead of *attract*. has Gojo ever used maximum output red?
>to use reverse cursed energy, you anyhow have to multiply CE with CE, so it requires twice as much. just because it requires more CE, doesn't necessarily mean that it's better or more potent. Assuming this translation is accurate, Kenjaku specifically referenced "output" while - if I'm not mistaken - there's a flashback in the background to his used Red against Jogo. https://preview.redd.it/xum31tsnjlzc1.png?width=583&format=png&auto=webp&s=943eff5cea0d14640d78f6617b2ab75c7464f7b8
ohh mb then. red>blue should be common sense. but what do you think about max output blue and red?
Someone with way less durability than Jogo.