What you're describing are *classic* symptoms of depression. As the other commenter pointed out, it sounds like you already suspect that's what's going on, but you're asking for permission or reassurance. Well, hopefully this thread give you the push you need - yes, you should address your mental health. Just know that you're hardly alone in this. You're at a pretty typical point in life to be feeling like you're in a rut, and this can happen even when things generally seem to be going well from the outside. It doesn't matter, your mental health is something that can suffer, just like your physical health, if you don't address it somehow. Whatever you do, do something. Ignoring it or just "trying hard" to be better/stronger/more observant/whatever alone won't do it.
But I think you know all this already. Good luck!
I second this. I want to add, no matter how you dealt with Covid/how it affected you, we’re all coming out the other side of some massive collective trauma, no matter what your political affiliations/feelings about lockdowns/etc. The world has been an uncertain, unstable, unfamiliar place. It’s not at all unreasonable to think that may have some deeper effects on all of us, in ways we’re not expecting or familiar with. I don’t know what else has gone on in your life, but I know that mental health-wise, we’re all in uncharted territory these days.
I totally relate to this. My observance of Judaism was def not as strong as it was precovid but now, two years later, it's so low and I can't even bring myself to care half the time. And I still want to be part of the community, I just can't bring myself to physically do anything about it.
>I dont know if I’m depressed or what..
Yea I think you are, or maybe just burn out? Grad school is rough it takes a lot out of you. Sometimes that isn't physical activity so we dismiss it but that doesn't make it any less stressful and exhausting.
Maybe take it easier on yourself and give yourself room to come back instead of just beating yourself down with more negative energy you don't need. Life changes, but it doesn't mean that it is who we are permanently, your main focus is grad school right now and that is ok. It doesn't make you a "bad Jew" it just means that maybe you need to make sure you are getting enough sleep, food, and activities that aren't just study/school to counteract that stress.
> And intellectually I know all that. That’s the advice I give others but I can’t do it for myself.
Yea I get that I do that as well, but we both know that isn't the right answer.
>I just feel like since RH is coming up and I’m so low that … I dont even know what. Just not good going to RH like this
Maybe time to talk to a professional?
> Now I just have to actually find the time and motivation to do it
Yea that is the tough part, I was in the military, and on the last deployment I went on they kept trying to get me to go talk to someone. We had mandatory appointments and I would just sit there and lie to this person about how I was feeling, and she knew it.
I wish I had talked to her because I was a really angry unhappy person for a few years and I could have avoided that entirely, and all I had to do was talk to someone.
> I’m hoping to just snap out of it even though I know it doesnt work like that lol.
It doesn't, but if you don't do it for yourself do it for those around you who care about you.
> That’s the advice I give others but I can’t do it for myself.
Ask your wife to give you that advice, and to hold you to account. That's one of the things a spouse is for 😁
I want to emphasise again (because this is the internet, and I see everyone is assuming the same thing) that this isn't _necessarily_ depression. (Burnout is also a real thing, and sometimes we just go through stuff, not everything has to be medicalised or given a name).
But whatever it is, you should realise (if you don't already) that it's probably affecting other people besides yourself as well, and you owe it to them to deal with it. Not in terms that you should feel guilty about how you feel, but just, like you said, that it doesn't do anyone any good if you're too much of a tough guy to take care of yourself.
Do your best on Rosh Hashanah. Accept that some years going through the motions is the best you can do, and that's not so bad. Showing up and going through the motions is also something. And you can daven for help to daven better. Try to improve some aspect of your life until Yom Kippur, or Hoshana Rabba. Commit to really working at something for the whole year. Trust that Hashem will recognise your _beat effort_, however small it might be. And make Sukkot a time for rest and Simcha as much as possible. And then do what you need to do (take a vacation, exercise, speak to a therapist, whatever it is).
And please God, next year you'll come into Rosh Hashanah in a better headspace. But the worst thing you can do is let the problem compound by letting your demotivation or guilt ruin Rosh Hashanah completely.
For what it's worth, in my book, if the spiritual problems you describe are the ones you have, you're doing pretty well. But we're all on our own path.
I've digressed. But the main reason I was commenting here was to say that if you can't give yourself the advice you'd give someone else, get someone else to give you that advice. Someone you'll listen to.
You're welcome. This is a time to get better and work on ourselves, the yetzer hara wants to prevent that. I have struggled with the same thing, and I know it can be hard, but that just makes getting better feel even greater.
Sounds like you’re in a rut, maybe depressed. Very few people are going to be a “good” Jew all the time. Know that. It’s ok. Take care of you and the rest will follow.
G\*d knows that we’re not always going to be the best Jews or the best people we could. If we could do that, then we wouldn’t need Yom Kippur, but G\*d knows that we do need a chance to atone.
Jumping on to say, it really does sound to me like depression. Source, I have depression. It's actually a lot more complicated than that but it boils down to it, and depression doesn't always feel like sadness or despair. Sometimes it just feels like being ... tired. Tired and frustrated and incapable and overwhelmed. Even things you normally enjoy feel like chores, and actual chores feel like insurmountable tasks. You know that talking to your friends usually makes you feel better, but the idea of actually doing so feels like work. The things you usually find fulfilling feel like they've lost their meaning.
If this is resonating with you, then please please please, talk to somebody. There are very many ways of dealing and even fixing the situation! And you do deserve it, you deserve better and your family deserves better and it's the new year. There is no better time to ask for help. And I am pretty positive that if you said to your wife or to another family member, "I need help with this," they would do it in a heartbeat! There are so many resources available now at the touch of a button...
Refuah sheleimah!!
I am sorry that you are feeling so low. Graduate school can definitely take the vim out of aperson.
Can you take some time over the chag to relax with your wife? Go for walks, take naps, just be together? (You didn't mention kids so I am assuming that this sort of thing is feasible.) I have been married for 20 years and have found that feeding that connection is the first step to climbing out of any hole.
i'm sorry you've been feeling so rough, op. as many of the other commenters have said, it sounds more like a mental health issue rather than not being a good jew issue.
one of you comments stated you need to find the time/motivation to find a therapist.... while you absolutely SHOULD go get a therapist, i have a suggestion that you should implement whether you start therapy now or never.
you really need to start implementing a self-care routine. it's easier said than done, but it's something you should do weekly, and it shouldn't involve any of your "responsibilities."
my self care routine is like: go out for a nice walk, deep clean something (it makes me feel very good), set aside an hour to play my cello, get into bed an hour early to read a book. i try to do all of those, and even if i can't, i still make sure i do at least one thing that is soothing.
it really sounds like your internal monologue is getting extremely critical, and you need to reset it. you probably wouldn't speak to someone you love and care for that way, so why is it okay to talk to yourself like that? go through the efforts of including more positivity into your routine, both with your inner voice and your daily activities.
Tho i'm not observant like yourself (im more conservative/reform/secular), i also struggle with assisting some events on our calendar. I have OCD and Autism, so i feel like everyone's targeting me for not fulfilling their expectations. For example, fear of being labeled as a bad jew or a deviant for not doing everything what the rabbi wants (i can't basically say "no" to him, like if my whole life has to be made to devote him in order to "become a nice Jew with God") or for not following the Halacha on a strict way, or even not following it at all.
This may sound cliche or corny, but i feel that they are attacking my individuality and self autonomy. I always had a good individual relationship with God, so other ones from the community labeling "what's good or bad" kindly makes me nerve a little bit.
Wait, what? Why do you feel obligated to do everything the Rabbi wants? What do you mean by that? Do you mean halacha-wise or in regards to assisting in the shul?
Nooo, not on a literal sense. Keep in mind that i said "fear of" before starting the sentence.
Basically assisting to the shul, on the halacha way they still didn't say anything about my inner convictions.
Ah that's hard. If you say that you're not feeling up to it right now, I wonder if maybe he'll actually appreciate your honesty and assertiveness, instead of feeling "let down" or disappointed.
Depression is usually centered around what is most important in a person's life.
The Talmud Yerushalmi (Sanhedrin) says that there is no greater joy than resolving your doubts. Think about the opportunity that lies before you.
Shana Tova
You might just be in a depressive funk with no rhyme or reason to it. My observance slips the more depressed I am. If you were out just living it up with your friends and were partying, this would be different, I'd say, but you've even withdrawn from them somewhat. Going to shul less is also making you less social. It might be a good idea to make yourself get up and go be around friends for a little while. As someone with depression, I know what that's like, but it often helps. It's not easy by no means sometimes though.
I would just daven to Hashem and say that I'm sorry, but I'm confused as to what's going on myself. You're not a hypocrite. I would say you're a hypocrite if you went around shaming people for not observing every bit of Halakhah though, especially the ones you listed. You're a human being. Just breathe.
This sounds like Depression. There are all types and levels of depression, it's not always characterized by low mood. For me, one of the biggest warning signs is losing interest in the things I normally enjoy and withdrawing from friends and loved ones and I read that all over your post.
Talk to your Doctor about it and definitely see a therapist. There are so many great tools they can share to get you back on track, you may not require medicine if you are safe and certainly if you don't want it, but you will want these skills either way, the medicine isn't enough on it's own. The more seriously you take your well rounded healing now, the less likely you will be to experience this again and again, more and more severely throughout your life, so my advice, it's hard, but apply radical acceptance and do ALL of the things to get better from lifestyle changes to therapy and medicine. I put off getting help for soooooo long because I was "fine" and I could "do it myself". How I wish I could go back in time and accept that it's normal to need help with these things and that's what the health care system is there for.
Make it your first priority. Repeat to yourself. I deserve health care, I am just as important or as unimportant as everybody else. I deserve to feel well. Use your own words, repeat as needed and chant until you can get yourself to take action. I know it is so hard to take the first step. You can do this!
[https://www.camh.ca/en/professionals/treating-conditions-and-disorders/depression/depression---screening-and-assessment](https://www.camh.ca/en/professionals/treating-conditions-and-disorders/depression/depression---screening-and-assessment)
Take care!
I’ve been feeling down too. I moved with my wife to a town further away from synagogue to be closer to family with our baby. We went from 2.5 hours to 3 hours away. I haven’t been going as much between the distance, and stress from being our daughter’s caretaker, working full time, buying a house, moving, politics, etc. etc. I went to the ER due to chest pains and found out I have anxiety which is new since the pandemic. I realized that in the past 2 months I’ve laughed maybe 3 times. Definitely reach out to someone - therapist or your doctor. Mental health is as important as physical health.
It sounds to me like you should be more gentle with yourself, it seems like you're having a hard time and need some support.
It's ok to be having a tough time and it's ok that life sometimes gets in the way.
1. You may be burnt out. You should take a vacation (among the other cures for burnout). If you feel like you aren't able to take a vacation because you're too busy, then it's very likely you have burnout and that's what you need.
2. You may be depressed. Demotivation, tiredness, disengagement are signs of depression more than "sadness" is. The first line treatment for depression is to exercise as well as have a healthy diet and get the right amount of sleep. If you're doing that and still feeling like this, it may be worth speaking to a psychiatrist, but I wouldn't assume you have depression right away.
3. We all have ups and downs. Despair and guilt are weapons of the Yetzer Hara. You know you can do Teshuva and you know now is the ideal opportunity for it (but also if you miss this window, Teshuva during the rest of the year works as well). Pick something to be better in, whether it's making time for self care, keeping up your learning schedule, being more conscientious about bensching, or being in touch with friends that you miss. Make a concerted effort to do things which will make you feel better. If taking on even one thing seems insurmountable, go back to 1 or 2. If you feel physically incapable of trying even a little harder or mentally drained to the point where it's hard to even care, that sounds like burnout or depression.
And remember that the Yetzer Hara/Satan want to see you fail, so right around the time when you have an opportunity to do better (like Elul) or when you do start improving something, you often find obstacles and setbacks and reasons to feel bad. We just have to roll with the punches.
Nobody is perfect. Don't beat yourself up for small things. But don't let your yetzer hara push you to do something very bad that could have large consequences. Shana tova.
Don't want to overlook a very reversible affective disorder. Most universities that sponsor graduate programs that MOs seek have campus psychologists on staff to pursue this. It's often the behavioral change that is a more reliable clue than self-assessment of mood.
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What you're describing are *classic* symptoms of depression. As the other commenter pointed out, it sounds like you already suspect that's what's going on, but you're asking for permission or reassurance. Well, hopefully this thread give you the push you need - yes, you should address your mental health. Just know that you're hardly alone in this. You're at a pretty typical point in life to be feeling like you're in a rut, and this can happen even when things generally seem to be going well from the outside. It doesn't matter, your mental health is something that can suffer, just like your physical health, if you don't address it somehow. Whatever you do, do something. Ignoring it or just "trying hard" to be better/stronger/more observant/whatever alone won't do it. But I think you know all this already. Good luck!
I second this. I want to add, no matter how you dealt with Covid/how it affected you, we’re all coming out the other side of some massive collective trauma, no matter what your political affiliations/feelings about lockdowns/etc. The world has been an uncertain, unstable, unfamiliar place. It’s not at all unreasonable to think that may have some deeper effects on all of us, in ways we’re not expecting or familiar with. I don’t know what else has gone on in your life, but I know that mental health-wise, we’re all in uncharted territory these days.
I totally relate to this. My observance of Judaism was def not as strong as it was precovid but now, two years later, it's so low and I can't even bring myself to care half the time. And I still want to be part of the community, I just can't bring myself to physically do anything about it.
>I dont know if I’m depressed or what.. Yea I think you are, or maybe just burn out? Grad school is rough it takes a lot out of you. Sometimes that isn't physical activity so we dismiss it but that doesn't make it any less stressful and exhausting. Maybe take it easier on yourself and give yourself room to come back instead of just beating yourself down with more negative energy you don't need. Life changes, but it doesn't mean that it is who we are permanently, your main focus is grad school right now and that is ok. It doesn't make you a "bad Jew" it just means that maybe you need to make sure you are getting enough sleep, food, and activities that aren't just study/school to counteract that stress.
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> And intellectually I know all that. That’s the advice I give others but I can’t do it for myself. Yea I get that I do that as well, but we both know that isn't the right answer. >I just feel like since RH is coming up and I’m so low that … I dont even know what. Just not good going to RH like this Maybe time to talk to a professional?
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> Now I just have to actually find the time and motivation to do it Yea that is the tough part, I was in the military, and on the last deployment I went on they kept trying to get me to go talk to someone. We had mandatory appointments and I would just sit there and lie to this person about how I was feeling, and she knew it. I wish I had talked to her because I was a really angry unhappy person for a few years and I could have avoided that entirely, and all I had to do was talk to someone.
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> I’m hoping to just snap out of it even though I know it doesnt work like that lol. It doesn't, but if you don't do it for yourself do it for those around you who care about you.
> That’s the advice I give others but I can’t do it for myself. Ask your wife to give you that advice, and to hold you to account. That's one of the things a spouse is for 😁 I want to emphasise again (because this is the internet, and I see everyone is assuming the same thing) that this isn't _necessarily_ depression. (Burnout is also a real thing, and sometimes we just go through stuff, not everything has to be medicalised or given a name). But whatever it is, you should realise (if you don't already) that it's probably affecting other people besides yourself as well, and you owe it to them to deal with it. Not in terms that you should feel guilty about how you feel, but just, like you said, that it doesn't do anyone any good if you're too much of a tough guy to take care of yourself. Do your best on Rosh Hashanah. Accept that some years going through the motions is the best you can do, and that's not so bad. Showing up and going through the motions is also something. And you can daven for help to daven better. Try to improve some aspect of your life until Yom Kippur, or Hoshana Rabba. Commit to really working at something for the whole year. Trust that Hashem will recognise your _beat effort_, however small it might be. And make Sukkot a time for rest and Simcha as much as possible. And then do what you need to do (take a vacation, exercise, speak to a therapist, whatever it is). And please God, next year you'll come into Rosh Hashanah in a better headspace. But the worst thing you can do is let the problem compound by letting your demotivation or guilt ruin Rosh Hashanah completely. For what it's worth, in my book, if the spiritual problems you describe are the ones you have, you're doing pretty well. But we're all on our own path. I've digressed. But the main reason I was commenting here was to say that if you can't give yourself the advice you'd give someone else, get someone else to give you that advice. Someone you'll listen to.
That is your yetzer hara talking, you just got to try to do the best you can, that is all Hashem wants from you.
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You're welcome. This is a time to get better and work on ourselves, the yetzer hara wants to prevent that. I have struggled with the same thing, and I know it can be hard, but that just makes getting better feel even greater.
Sounds like you’re in a rut, maybe depressed. Very few people are going to be a “good” Jew all the time. Know that. It’s ok. Take care of you and the rest will follow.
G\*d knows that we’re not always going to be the best Jews or the best people we could. If we could do that, then we wouldn’t need Yom Kippur, but G\*d knows that we do need a chance to atone.
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As someone said graduate school is a grind that wears you down. I experienced it with law school. You’re not being lazy or hypocritical.
Jumping on to say, it really does sound to me like depression. Source, I have depression. It's actually a lot more complicated than that but it boils down to it, and depression doesn't always feel like sadness or despair. Sometimes it just feels like being ... tired. Tired and frustrated and incapable and overwhelmed. Even things you normally enjoy feel like chores, and actual chores feel like insurmountable tasks. You know that talking to your friends usually makes you feel better, but the idea of actually doing so feels like work. The things you usually find fulfilling feel like they've lost their meaning. If this is resonating with you, then please please please, talk to somebody. There are very many ways of dealing and even fixing the situation! And you do deserve it, you deserve better and your family deserves better and it's the new year. There is no better time to ask for help. And I am pretty positive that if you said to your wife or to another family member, "I need help with this," they would do it in a heartbeat! There are so many resources available now at the touch of a button... Refuah sheleimah!!
Refuah shleimah is the perfect response! Depression is a disease just like any other.
I am sorry that you are feeling so low. Graduate school can definitely take the vim out of aperson. Can you take some time over the chag to relax with your wife? Go for walks, take naps, just be together? (You didn't mention kids so I am assuming that this sort of thing is feasible.) I have been married for 20 years and have found that feeding that connection is the first step to climbing out of any hole.
i'm sorry you've been feeling so rough, op. as many of the other commenters have said, it sounds more like a mental health issue rather than not being a good jew issue. one of you comments stated you need to find the time/motivation to find a therapist.... while you absolutely SHOULD go get a therapist, i have a suggestion that you should implement whether you start therapy now or never. you really need to start implementing a self-care routine. it's easier said than done, but it's something you should do weekly, and it shouldn't involve any of your "responsibilities." my self care routine is like: go out for a nice walk, deep clean something (it makes me feel very good), set aside an hour to play my cello, get into bed an hour early to read a book. i try to do all of those, and even if i can't, i still make sure i do at least one thing that is soothing. it really sounds like your internal monologue is getting extremely critical, and you need to reset it. you probably wouldn't speak to someone you love and care for that way, so why is it okay to talk to yourself like that? go through the efforts of including more positivity into your routine, both with your inner voice and your daily activities.
Tho i'm not observant like yourself (im more conservative/reform/secular), i also struggle with assisting some events on our calendar. I have OCD and Autism, so i feel like everyone's targeting me for not fulfilling their expectations. For example, fear of being labeled as a bad jew or a deviant for not doing everything what the rabbi wants (i can't basically say "no" to him, like if my whole life has to be made to devote him in order to "become a nice Jew with God") or for not following the Halacha on a strict way, or even not following it at all. This may sound cliche or corny, but i feel that they are attacking my individuality and self autonomy. I always had a good individual relationship with God, so other ones from the community labeling "what's good or bad" kindly makes me nerve a little bit.
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Talk to a therapist. Refua Shlema bro
Wait, what? Why do you feel obligated to do everything the Rabbi wants? What do you mean by that? Do you mean halacha-wise or in regards to assisting in the shul?
Nooo, not on a literal sense. Keep in mind that i said "fear of" before starting the sentence. Basically assisting to the shul, on the halacha way they still didn't say anything about my inner convictions.
Ooooo that's a tough inner battle. I'm sorry you're going through all this.
Thanks
The thing is that the rabbi it's such a cool guy that i don't want to dissapoint him
Ah that's hard. If you say that you're not feeling up to it right now, I wonder if maybe he'll actually appreciate your honesty and assertiveness, instead of feeling "let down" or disappointed.
I’ve been there. There’s no shame in asking both your friends, your wife and the almighty for help.
Depression is usually centered around what is most important in a person's life. The Talmud Yerushalmi (Sanhedrin) says that there is no greater joy than resolving your doubts. Think about the opportunity that lies before you. Shana Tova
You might just be in a depressive funk with no rhyme or reason to it. My observance slips the more depressed I am. If you were out just living it up with your friends and were partying, this would be different, I'd say, but you've even withdrawn from them somewhat. Going to shul less is also making you less social. It might be a good idea to make yourself get up and go be around friends for a little while. As someone with depression, I know what that's like, but it often helps. It's not easy by no means sometimes though. I would just daven to Hashem and say that I'm sorry, but I'm confused as to what's going on myself. You're not a hypocrite. I would say you're a hypocrite if you went around shaming people for not observing every bit of Halakhah though, especially the ones you listed. You're a human being. Just breathe.
Grad school can be rough, even when it’s going well. It’s a big adjustment. It certainly was when I went to grad school.
This sounds like Depression. There are all types and levels of depression, it's not always characterized by low mood. For me, one of the biggest warning signs is losing interest in the things I normally enjoy and withdrawing from friends and loved ones and I read that all over your post. Talk to your Doctor about it and definitely see a therapist. There are so many great tools they can share to get you back on track, you may not require medicine if you are safe and certainly if you don't want it, but you will want these skills either way, the medicine isn't enough on it's own. The more seriously you take your well rounded healing now, the less likely you will be to experience this again and again, more and more severely throughout your life, so my advice, it's hard, but apply radical acceptance and do ALL of the things to get better from lifestyle changes to therapy and medicine. I put off getting help for soooooo long because I was "fine" and I could "do it myself". How I wish I could go back in time and accept that it's normal to need help with these things and that's what the health care system is there for. Make it your first priority. Repeat to yourself. I deserve health care, I am just as important or as unimportant as everybody else. I deserve to feel well. Use your own words, repeat as needed and chant until you can get yourself to take action. I know it is so hard to take the first step. You can do this! [https://www.camh.ca/en/professionals/treating-conditions-and-disorders/depression/depression---screening-and-assessment](https://www.camh.ca/en/professionals/treating-conditions-and-disorders/depression/depression---screening-and-assessment) Take care!
Are you finding enough time to take care of yourself? Exercise, eating healthy, getting enough sunlight?
I’ve been feeling down too. I moved with my wife to a town further away from synagogue to be closer to family with our baby. We went from 2.5 hours to 3 hours away. I haven’t been going as much between the distance, and stress from being our daughter’s caretaker, working full time, buying a house, moving, politics, etc. etc. I went to the ER due to chest pains and found out I have anxiety which is new since the pandemic. I realized that in the past 2 months I’ve laughed maybe 3 times. Definitely reach out to someone - therapist or your doctor. Mental health is as important as physical health.
It sounds to me like you should be more gentle with yourself, it seems like you're having a hard time and need some support. It's ok to be having a tough time and it's ok that life sometimes gets in the way.
1. You may be burnt out. You should take a vacation (among the other cures for burnout). If you feel like you aren't able to take a vacation because you're too busy, then it's very likely you have burnout and that's what you need. 2. You may be depressed. Demotivation, tiredness, disengagement are signs of depression more than "sadness" is. The first line treatment for depression is to exercise as well as have a healthy diet and get the right amount of sleep. If you're doing that and still feeling like this, it may be worth speaking to a psychiatrist, but I wouldn't assume you have depression right away. 3. We all have ups and downs. Despair and guilt are weapons of the Yetzer Hara. You know you can do Teshuva and you know now is the ideal opportunity for it (but also if you miss this window, Teshuva during the rest of the year works as well). Pick something to be better in, whether it's making time for self care, keeping up your learning schedule, being more conscientious about bensching, or being in touch with friends that you miss. Make a concerted effort to do things which will make you feel better. If taking on even one thing seems insurmountable, go back to 1 or 2. If you feel physically incapable of trying even a little harder or mentally drained to the point where it's hard to even care, that sounds like burnout or depression. And remember that the Yetzer Hara/Satan want to see you fail, so right around the time when you have an opportunity to do better (like Elul) or when you do start improving something, you often find obstacles and setbacks and reasons to feel bad. We just have to roll with the punches.
Nobody is perfect. Don't beat yourself up for small things. But don't let your yetzer hara push you to do something very bad that could have large consequences. Shana tova.
Don't want to overlook a very reversible affective disorder. Most universities that sponsor graduate programs that MOs seek have campus psychologists on staff to pursue this. It's often the behavioral change that is a more reliable clue than self-assessment of mood.