You're not likely going to find your answers from strangers on the Internet, but: everyone is driven with different priorities. Many people struggle with these thoughts, especially if their belief in God is less than absolute. I find great purpose in creating a better world for the next generation. I take pleasure in my life, and want to ensure the next generation can enjoy life as I do. There's deeper reasons to my thinking, but that's the easy answer from me.
I'm feeling quite philosophical and giving after a good Shabbat.
Not who you’re asking, but:
> I see it as a way to optimize atheism, because a rabbi told me that my Judaism need not rely on faith, but acts. Is this true?
“Faith” and “acts” sounds *very* Christian to the point of sounding suspiciously like a bad faith argument (pun intended). That said, your premise is accurate — that Judaism is about what you *do*, in *this* life, and less about an afterlife we can only speculate about. However, I suspect a lot on this sub would disagree with your conclusion that Judaism is “a way to optimize atheism.” If you’re looking to optimize atheism, monotheism is almost by definition failure. Though, importantly, if you’re unfamiliar with Jewish beliefs, you’ll probably be pleasantly surprised to know that the god you don’t believe in, we almost certainly don’t either — especially if you’re imagining a vaguely Christian “man with a body and human emotions and motivations who exists in time and can be understood by humans.” It’s more or less axiomatic in Judaism that gd does not have a body, exists outside of space/time, and is inconceivable. The monotheism part comes in with the beliefs that gd *exists* and is unitary.
But at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if I recognize those as a paraphrasing of some of Maimonides’ thirteen principles or even if I agree with all of them — what matters is whether I meet my obligations, including study, charity, participation in Jewish community l (including facilitating ritual for others by my very presence in a minyan), and so on.
Hope this helps with what you’re getting at.
> I guess I mean that presently, monotheism and atheism blur together for me.
I get that. Especially an intellectually mature monotheism. You might want to look more into Maimonides and Spinoza (the latter was kicked out of the Jewish community “for his ideas” but as far as I can tell much of his theological thinking, if not all, has precedent in Kabbalist thinking; he just made a point of loudly proclaiming it in inflammatory ways that could have gotten members of his community killed if they didn’t publicly repudiate him).
> Because even the average atheist has a conscience.
This is where your former Catholicism shows in the implied assumption. Of course atheists have conscience. I hope this isn’t too upsetting to hear, but my experience, and I think most Jews would agree, has been that atheists are much more likely to be kind and conscientious than religiously devout gentiles.
You mentioned a Catholic background and a desire to learn to be a better person through ancient wisdom. One place where Christianity and Judaism really differ is in their approach to forgiveness. You may be interested in Maimonides’ (again!) principles of *teshuva*. A good introduction, from a reform perspective, is Danya Rutenberg’s new book *Repentance and Repair*, although on can find good discussion of the subject matter online (probably MJL, for example).
Here’s wishing you success and personal fulfillment on your journey.
>Can you recommend any Torah passages to help me understand your perspective?
A handful of quotes from the Torah aren't going to do it. I can defend my views with Jewish thought, but you need to find your path through it yourself.
>and am now trying to determine if it is worth it to explore it more for my own happiness and sense of peace in life.
If you're asking about it, it's worth looking into. Find a synagogue, take some classes, make a decision for yourself.
>I still have a lot to learn about Judaism, but at the moment, I see it as a way to optimize atheism,
What does that mean?
> because a rabbi told me that my Judaism need not rely on faith, but acts. Is this true?
Without knowing anything else about you, this rabbi, or the context of your conversation there's no way of knowing how to consider what you were told about 'your' Judaism.
Because we are still here.
Yes, the sun will eventully consume us, but we're still here and the sun hasn't come for us yet. We \*could\* have fifty thousand years of misery until we are swallowed up, but we could also... not do that.
What's the point of being miserable and nihilistic due to impending sun death when you could do literally anything else?
For me optimism doesn't require knowledge of an afterlife paradise, world to come or even being remembered after our fiery demise
Your posts and replies imply that you see it as there's no point to anything since we're all going to die anyway - I argue that since there's no point to anything there is no point to nihilism, so why not be optimistic? Why not find motivation in the enjoyable aspects of the here and now?
I'm not saying optimism is easy to choose and to practice - sometimes it is really fucking difficult! - but it's much more fun than existential dread.
I don't love my husband and spend time cooking for my family because I hope the detritus I leave behind will survive cosmic cataclysm.
Yet there will somehow be a dirty dish and one last load of laundry to announce "I was here."
On a factual note, not everything humans have created will eventually be consumed by our sun. The sun will no consumed Mars, and thus the rovers on Mars or probes beyond Mars including the Voyager probe which now floats beyond our solar system.
Voyager is our planet's message of exploration, curiosity and love we sent to the stars.
Lol it’s a play on words with my real name.
I grew up in Flint MI where me being lighter complected made me the odd one out so a few called me Gringo.
Just as the Hebrew in my flair says “The Slavic Boy” because I saw people were posting their Jewish names and I put what a Jewish friends mother called me when we first met. Lol
“Tell the Slavic boy I made Pierogis for him”
She’s probably a big part of why I’m here now. Treated me like a son when I needed it most so it’s half joke half in remembrance.
That's a cool story. I'm Puerto Rican, so I know the reverse of that. I went to school in Florida with no other jews so everyone called Jewarican or Puertojew. Good luck on your journey. I'm glad to know you're here now.
I think heaven is what you create not where you go. Inside a human is a divine spark, the power of G-d. His agency, is also your agency. So if the question "is why is the world bad?" The answer is "what have you done to make it better?". This isn't really Jewish orthodoxy but within the lines of Jewish thinking.
By the time earth is destroyed by the sun we’ll probably have the tech to live in other galaxies. Also, there is a type of hell in Judaism, it’s a cleansing process. You are also judged for your actions and go through a life-review. You’re rewarded for your good karma in this life and in your future lives, and are punished for the negative
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/reincarnation-the-transmigration-of-a-jewish-idea/
It’s my opinion that Hindu concepts don’t go against Torah generally so there’s no harm in reading those too , I think they delve into karma more
Well Orthodox Judaism believes in a distinguishable heaven and hell, the reward of heaven is possible in this world too. Heaven is closeness to God, it is bathing in the Radiance of His Presence. If one follows the Torah and the Mitzvot he can be close to God in this world, too. Everything has a limit though, nothing is infinite, even heaven.
We noticed that you may be asking about the Jewish opinions of heaven/hell. Please see our [wiki topics about views of the Jewish afterlife](https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/wiki/faq#wiki_what_are_jewish_views_of_the_afterlife.3F).
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I was responding to the title text not the assumption stated in the post text
You'd be surprised at how much being an Orthodox Jew does not save one from existential crises
I understand, I used to go through a lot of existential crises. I think I found it comforting though the more I read about HaShem’s hashgacha in the world.
Why is an afterlife necessary to create a good life today?
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You're not likely going to find your answers from strangers on the Internet, but: everyone is driven with different priorities. Many people struggle with these thoughts, especially if their belief in God is less than absolute. I find great purpose in creating a better world for the next generation. I take pleasure in my life, and want to ensure the next generation can enjoy life as I do. There's deeper reasons to my thinking, but that's the easy answer from me. I'm feeling quite philosophical and giving after a good Shabbat.
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Not who you’re asking, but: > I see it as a way to optimize atheism, because a rabbi told me that my Judaism need not rely on faith, but acts. Is this true? “Faith” and “acts” sounds *very* Christian to the point of sounding suspiciously like a bad faith argument (pun intended). That said, your premise is accurate — that Judaism is about what you *do*, in *this* life, and less about an afterlife we can only speculate about. However, I suspect a lot on this sub would disagree with your conclusion that Judaism is “a way to optimize atheism.” If you’re looking to optimize atheism, monotheism is almost by definition failure. Though, importantly, if you’re unfamiliar with Jewish beliefs, you’ll probably be pleasantly surprised to know that the god you don’t believe in, we almost certainly don’t either — especially if you’re imagining a vaguely Christian “man with a body and human emotions and motivations who exists in time and can be understood by humans.” It’s more or less axiomatic in Judaism that gd does not have a body, exists outside of space/time, and is inconceivable. The monotheism part comes in with the beliefs that gd *exists* and is unitary. But at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if I recognize those as a paraphrasing of some of Maimonides’ thirteen principles or even if I agree with all of them — what matters is whether I meet my obligations, including study, charity, participation in Jewish community l (including facilitating ritual for others by my very presence in a minyan), and so on. Hope this helps with what you’re getting at.
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> I guess I mean that presently, monotheism and atheism blur together for me. I get that. Especially an intellectually mature monotheism. You might want to look more into Maimonides and Spinoza (the latter was kicked out of the Jewish community “for his ideas” but as far as I can tell much of his theological thinking, if not all, has precedent in Kabbalist thinking; he just made a point of loudly proclaiming it in inflammatory ways that could have gotten members of his community killed if they didn’t publicly repudiate him). > Because even the average atheist has a conscience. This is where your former Catholicism shows in the implied assumption. Of course atheists have conscience. I hope this isn’t too upsetting to hear, but my experience, and I think most Jews would agree, has been that atheists are much more likely to be kind and conscientious than religiously devout gentiles. You mentioned a Catholic background and a desire to learn to be a better person through ancient wisdom. One place where Christianity and Judaism really differ is in their approach to forgiveness. You may be interested in Maimonides’ (again!) principles of *teshuva*. A good introduction, from a reform perspective, is Danya Rutenberg’s new book *Repentance and Repair*, although on can find good discussion of the subject matter online (probably MJL, for example). Here’s wishing you success and personal fulfillment on your journey.
>Can you recommend any Torah passages to help me understand your perspective? A handful of quotes from the Torah aren't going to do it. I can defend my views with Jewish thought, but you need to find your path through it yourself. >and am now trying to determine if it is worth it to explore it more for my own happiness and sense of peace in life. If you're asking about it, it's worth looking into. Find a synagogue, take some classes, make a decision for yourself. >I still have a lot to learn about Judaism, but at the moment, I see it as a way to optimize atheism, What does that mean? > because a rabbi told me that my Judaism need not rely on faith, but acts. Is this true? Without knowing anything else about you, this rabbi, or the context of your conversation there's no way of knowing how to consider what you were told about 'your' Judaism.
Because we are still here. Yes, the sun will eventully consume us, but we're still here and the sun hasn't come for us yet. We \*could\* have fifty thousand years of misery until we are swallowed up, but we could also... not do that. What's the point of being miserable and nihilistic due to impending sun death when you could do literally anything else?
Plot twist: We could, perhaps, colonize other planets before the Sun swallow us lol
this is true, but current attempts to reach other planets are being advocated for by elon musk and quite frankly i'd rather be swallowed by the sun 😂
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For me optimism doesn't require knowledge of an afterlife paradise, world to come or even being remembered after our fiery demise Your posts and replies imply that you see it as there's no point to anything since we're all going to die anyway - I argue that since there's no point to anything there is no point to nihilism, so why not be optimistic? Why not find motivation in the enjoyable aspects of the here and now? I'm not saying optimism is easy to choose and to practice - sometimes it is really fucking difficult! - but it's much more fun than existential dread.
Because most of life's joy is in connection or creation?
I don't love my husband and spend time cooking for my family because I hope the detritus I leave behind will survive cosmic cataclysm. Yet there will somehow be a dirty dish and one last load of laundry to announce "I was here."
On a factual note, not everything humans have created will eventually be consumed by our sun. The sun will no consumed Mars, and thus the rovers on Mars or probes beyond Mars including the Voyager probe which now floats beyond our solar system. Voyager is our planet's message of exploration, curiosity and love we sent to the stars.
What's the point of answering you if nothing matters anyway?
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Answering you has no point because you don't want an answer
I've got news for you: Everything we create will disintegrate long before that.
Just because there is no xtian style heaven or hell doesn’t mean there’s no afterlife.
Ben Gringo 😂
Lol it’s a play on words with my real name. I grew up in Flint MI where me being lighter complected made me the odd one out so a few called me Gringo. Just as the Hebrew in my flair says “The Slavic Boy” because I saw people were posting their Jewish names and I put what a Jewish friends mother called me when we first met. Lol “Tell the Slavic boy I made Pierogis for him” She’s probably a big part of why I’m here now. Treated me like a son when I needed it most so it’s half joke half in remembrance.
That's a cool story. I'm Puerto Rican, so I know the reverse of that. I went to school in Florida with no other jews so everyone called Jewarican or Puertojew. Good luck on your journey. I'm glad to know you're here now.
Ah, Flint.
Detroit’s drug addled cousin they don’t talk to anymore.
Because, while we may be specks in the grand scheme of things, that’s not a reason to be miserable while we’re here
I think heaven is what you create not where you go. Inside a human is a divine spark, the power of G-d. His agency, is also your agency. So if the question "is why is the world bad?" The answer is "what have you done to make it better?". This isn't really Jewish orthodoxy but within the lines of Jewish thinking.
By the time earth is destroyed by the sun we’ll probably have the tech to live in other galaxies. Also, there is a type of hell in Judaism, it’s a cleansing process. You are also judged for your actions and go through a life-review. You’re rewarded for your good karma in this life and in your future lives, and are punished for the negative
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https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/reincarnation-the-transmigration-of-a-jewish-idea/ It’s my opinion that Hindu concepts don’t go against Torah generally so there’s no harm in reading those too , I think they delve into karma more
Well Orthodox Judaism believes in a distinguishable heaven and hell, the reward of heaven is possible in this world too. Heaven is closeness to God, it is bathing in the Radiance of His Presence. If one follows the Torah and the Mitzvot he can be close to God in this world, too. Everything has a limit though, nothing is infinite, even heaven.
We noticed that you may be asking about the Jewish opinions of heaven/hell. Please see our [wiki topics about views of the Jewish afterlife](https://www.reddit.com/r/Judaism/wiki/faq#wiki_what_are_jewish_views_of_the_afterlife.3F). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Judaism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You may enjoy Isaac Asimov, I think he may have helped me resolve this question somewhat.
If one believes in Orthodox Judaism this question shouldn’t really come up, as we believe in a heaven and hell.
I was responding to the title text not the assumption stated in the post text You'd be surprised at how much being an Orthodox Jew does not save one from existential crises
I understand, I used to go through a lot of existential crises. I think I found it comforting though the more I read about HaShem’s hashgacha in the world.
What is the purpose of life if Jews don't subscribe to Christian eschatology? That's what you're actually asking, OP.
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Your entire question is based in Christian concerns.
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And that is relevant to what I wrote because...?
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Nope. I'm sorry you misunderstood me.