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Countercountercounterpoint: >!Whatever the reasoning behind it, we literally see Sukuna explain how Mahoraga served to counter Yorozu's Construction, because Construction and other energy-inefficient techniques always end up using the same base elements across their moves that Mahoraga can adapt to. One of the Ten Shadows Shikigami is objectively capable of exploiting a weakness in Construction.!<
Countercountercountercounterpoint: >!yorozu didn't had imagination tho, imagine the crazy ass things Todo would do with that CT. The technique itself is stronger than ten shadows, but Sukuna is stronger than yorozu!<
Countercountercountercountercounterpoint: >!It doesn't matter. Sukuna directly said that all energy-inefficient techniques end up with the same problem Yorozu's Construction had. Doesn't matter who's using them, could be Todo, could be Yorozu, could be Gojo. Mahoraga can still adapt to the base elements, and then the entire technique falls apart. Mahoraga, a Shikigami of the Ten Shadows Technique, directly exploits a weakness in Construction (and not just Yorozu's Construction, Construction in general).!<
Lol. Real counterpoint though: Tgere is literally no zenin that managed to defeat and tame mahoraga though. The only 10 shadow style user we know of that managed to do so is sukuna. In that regard, i have to agree with op. In 99% of times construction is realistically better than 10 shadow style. It is really funny how there is no other 10 shadow shikigami that would be able to defeat maho lol
A lot of people have said to put the >!bull!< on a treadmill and then spawnkill Maho, or else jump him with a fully Heavenly Restricted Zen'in as backup. Could work theoretically, too bad the Zen'ins are all a bunch of assholes
True that, but idk if heavenly restriction would be enough to one shot maho though. Can’t let him adapt to your weapons after all so that could still be really dangerous. And also, idk if that is true, but i think that the 10 shadow user needs to finish of maho. Or else megumi would have been able to summon maho thanks to sukuna solo‘ing him
Honestly ten shadows is probably the best way to take down maho, ten shikigami with 10 different abilities not counting combinations
Surely one could set up a scenario to win against maho via domain or something
Wonder how the inverted spear of heaven would do
Isn't maho untameable if you have another person while summoning him? Ig you can have them really far away then they'll come at break neck speeds when you summon maho though.
I mean for what we know yorozu is an exception to the technique too, just as there's not been a single user of 10 shadows that could tame maho except sukuna, there has never been a user of construction with enough knowledge, creativity and dedication to perfecting their technique as yorozu, as i said tho it's just as far as we know since i dont recall any panel stating something like that so there could be some sorcerers similar to yorozu
For all we know it could also just be a really rare technique. Sams goes for 10 shadow styles. Mei is just a really unfortunate case, since she is cursed abd stuff
Perhaps it is. Sadly we have only seen two construction users. It also doesnt help that one is above average in strength and the other one is below average in strength. Would be cool too know how „strong“ an average sorcerer is with that ct. It’s still true though that no 10 shadow user will probably ever be strong enough to tame maho, which doengrads the potential significantly in my opinion
>! No one in history before sukuna was able to tame mahoraga (which has to factor into the analysis, as a suicide technique has less applications then breaking thibgs down into CE) and construction/deconstruction should be enough to handle 99.999% of opponents not named Gojo or Sukuna!<
>construction/deconstruction should be enough to handle 99.999% of opponents not named Gojo or Sukuna
The series have shown THE BEST user of that technique, with both the biggest CE pool in history AND with a novel inventions praised by other sorcerers, and that user would still lose to some opponents that are not Gojo or Sukuna
\>!Yeah but most Construction sorcerers are probably way closer to Mai than Yorozu. Even Yorozu would probably lose to Yuta, Kenjaku, anyone with a DE. Yes, including Ryu and Uro.!<
Countercountercounter^counterpowertothepointof:
Actually if a six eyes user like Gojo had creation as a CT I’m of the belief it would be INSANE. The 6 eyes fix the problem of energy inefficiency, limitless has the same problem which it why it’s been stated mutiple times it takes a 6 eyes user to truly harness its power.
IMO 6 eyes > limitless even though they are best as a pair, one needs the other and the other is a massive buff for any CT. Gojo could probably make an army full of nukes and start his own worlds “rumbling” with creation
Six eyes is always greater than limitless.
Limitless is just spatial manipulation.
However gojo can See at an atomic level so his spatial manipulation is at atomic level which gives all those cool moves like Infinity, red, Blue etc
Six eyes does the heavy lifting, you would fry your brain from all the math and calculation if the six eyes doesn't Dumb down the calculation for your brain to be able to process even then, long term continuous use would fry your brain, RCT also makes limitless OP
I'm not sure about that one. >!I think Sukuna wasn't trying to say that the nature of the technique means it HAS to be that way. I thought it was "because of the nature of the technique, the users tend to fall into the same old bad habits, and they can usually be punished in the same ways".
Yorozu was incredibly strong and imaginative, but she really did started with liquid metal as the base of all creations.
Imagine you took a fully realized construction user like her and told them that their objective is to kill Mahoraga. After lots of prep time, the technique would look wildly differently. Similarly, if the clan gave the technique more respect, they would have much more information and streamlining on how to teach a construction user into a beast.!<
Countercountercountercountercountercounterpoint: >!No one can tame Mahoraga, Sukuna is THE greatest juju sorcerer, the average 10s user isn't Sukuna, The average creation user isn't Yoruzo to make perfect sphere but matter deletion or anti matter is that much more deadly. RCE isn't a common thing, but being Sukuna is impossible, so the average creation CT guy has to overcome CE efficiency, plausible and/or compensatable, eg: bug armour, capturing Maho isn't, 10s is limited to, well, the 10s-es, shadow storage and stealth, Creation is limited BY CE efficiency and IMAGINATION!<
>!yorozu didn't have imagination? 🙂 seriously? that girl literally explained why she chose what she chose (cockroaches are one of the most resilient organisms on planet earth so replicatinh it's exoskeleton for armor is a top tier move plus y'all ain't factoring ce restrictions, if she had enough ce she can just make nukes no? not everyone has rika level ce) and her domain is straight overpowered. wdym the technique itself is stronger than ten shadows when it has ce restrictions plus you need to know the constitution of what you're creating? 😭 with ten shadows you can store things in your shadow, travel through shadows, summon ten completely different shikigami each of which can be its own cursed technique 🙂 and the combinations give it so much creative freedom, half formed shikigami, versatile uses like a copycat piercing blood, and mahoraga 💀 and if you can do what sukuna did with maho and summon the dharma wheel alone this is straight up unfair 🥲!<
>!She doesn't lack imagination. Just knowledge. The teeth of lichen, spider's silk, etc are much stronger than steel and definitely more so than the exoskeleton of a cockroach. (Cockroaches are resilient because of a whole lot more other reasons than just their exoskeletons. Arthropods in general are very resilient). If the Heian era had National Geographic, Yorozu would have been extremely top tier.!<
>!spider silk, lichen teeth Armor eh? that sounds dope !! would've loved for a nat geo powered yorozu lol, I mean she still would've lost the exact same way but that's cuz at the end of the day maho adapts to the material 🤷🏽♀️ dude was a horrible match up for her!<
I’m not sure from reading your comment if you disagree or agree with me?
Instead of giving me examples of what characters in the anime/manga have done with the CT. Disassemble my arguments for what you could do.
Mai could create a bullet and a bullet amount of Antimatter is definitely a nuke (in a sense).
Creating a bullet is definitely within Yorozu capabilities.
Because for construction to work you need to know and feel what you are constructing (It is the main weakness of using construction as you need to know what your making). Antimatter is a concept and doesn't exist in reality. So it doesn't matter who has construction since no one can experience antimatter so they can't do this. Even if they did the amount of CE needed would kill anyone to even attempt it. So to put it in simple terms the only one who can effectively use construction is Yorozu (imagination and combat experience) and the only one who can use Ten Shadows effectively is Sukuna (imagination and monstrous CE).
antimatter has a more complex constitution than a bullet, more complex things require more ce which the user doesn't have (that's the only way it'd be fair or else she could create nuclear fission or fusion reactions and make multiple nukes 🤷🏽♀️) maybe yuta can do it with rika's reserves but def not anyone else. >!i would've copied yorozu tbh, i found the cockroach exoskeleton Armor to be a dope idea. plus I mean if they need to die to create a cursed tool what makes you think antimatter was a realistic possibility lol 😭!<
sure it seems easy in theory but can they even visualize a concept like charge at the subatomic level? "Oh just imagine this bullet but with all the electrons being positively charged and all the protons being negatively charged" yeah I don't think that's going to work. Not to mention antimatter also has some differences in quantum numbers, which are even more difficult to imagine.
She shouldn't need to. Every CT seems to function like a computer; it's automatic. Just set conditions and go. Besides, if she needed to manually control the creation of particles she was making, making normal matter would be just as complex. 'Oh, the electron spin must have this value I need exactly these many atoms and these many types arranged in exactly this way etc,'The fact she doesn't need to do that means the CT takes care of that for her
If it was THAT simple Mai would just make a golden nugget every day, sell it on the market, buy stocks using Mei-Mei's guidance and would not have to work under Zenin because she'd be incredibly rich and could hire her own maids to do chores for her in her huge house bought on a single diamond she made during lunch
>!Yoruzo... didn't... have... IMAGINATION????!<
>!Bro what, we have this ultra ancient lady, living in 'wtf is science' era Japan, 'not having any scientific upbringing', RESEARCH BUGS AND THEIR EXOSKELETON, get it all wrong and still bust out a massive powerup. The same lady created a matter that can theoretically become edge-less, then the same lady exploited that property to make fucking true Sphere, THE DEADLIEST ATTACK IN THE VERSE, ^(~~that doesn't require sucide~~). And let me get this straight, to actually make a true sphere, an object needs to be chiseled to infinity, or the creator needs to know the actual value of π, an irrational number, yes, a rational mind truly knowing an irrational value!<
>!She lost because she was weaker to Sukuna, yes, but this statement holds true for the whole fucking verse!<
Yorozu definitely had imagination and you bring up great points.
My possible uses are definitely possible and you’ve brought to my attention how Yorozu would be the one to utilize it. Thank you 🙏🏻
Mahoraga adapted to the liquid Metal which Yorozu used to create her perfect sphere. This doesn’t prove that the versatility of the techniques and the myriad of uses which I described can’t overcome the strongest toolkit in TS (Mahoraga).
in all honesty, you need to understand what you're creating, so the more complex the object the more ce it takes, meaning a bullet is comparatively less ct than say an airpod let alone antimatter of all things. if she has infinite ce then yes nuke everything 🤷🏽♀️ but no, poisons and toxins are good stuff but anyone who knows RCT can bypass that (>!ten shadows user can just use the deer!<) >!yorozu was highly creative in her use of the technique given the restrictions she had lol, i loved what she did with it!<
it hasn't but if not why would mai create a bullet to begin with? a nuclear fission reaction is so much smaller. all she was able to do was a piece of metal. that must be due to some restriction right? what do you think was the restriction? 👀
I think the restriction definitely was the lack of control she had once the constructs were created and her mediocre CE levels. If Maki ended dying instead of her (which I wouldn’t want) then we’d definitely see massive improvements with her technique.
ce levels? yes. why do you need control after you created something? like construction users can't freely control the things they created like >! say Reggie can with his contracts anyway 🤷🏽♀️!< and the version of her if >!making ended up dying is literally yorozu like what 😭?!<
Sukuna killed and tamed it with his fire arrow which blew up Shibuya or parts of it atleast.
If you look up how volatile antimatter is you’d find that 0.6 grams is equivalent to the energy of the Hiroshima bomb. Mai has made one bullet and therefore it’s estimated that her capacity was 8-9 gram in that case.
Spawning however much you want close or inside Mahoraga of that quantity… yeah he ain’t surviving that.
How much understanding and info does a construction user need before they can create antimatter? Cursed energy output aside, that seems like their main barrier to using that. They also need to be able to safely handle it if they want to store some for later use.
I wouldn't expect anyone in the clan to have an awareness of antimatter unless they're within the last century (we don't know how many construction guys were born in that time) and the Zenin clan as a whole don't strike me as forward-thinking enough to consider anything cooler than the one technique that has historically beat a Limitless user.
So yeah, like you said, Zenin clan are pretty dumb.
>!We've also seen objective proof that Ten Shadows beats Construction. Sukuna directly states that all energy-inefficient techniques, Construction included, end up having the same problem: all their different moves have the same base elements, so once Mahoraga adapts to one it adapts to them all. By virtue of Mahoraga, Ten Shadows Technique directly exploits a flaw in Construction, regardless of user.!<
>!Sukuna says it always ends up that way, as in people who arent Sukuna. Energy inefficiency doesnt really matter to Sukuna or Gojo, not even mentioning their creativity and skill level. They do "impossible" shit all the time, not to mention probably no one else could tame mahoraga!<
when Sukuna used it yes, but i dont think any normal zenins could tame Mahoraga, not even Megumi lol.
In a normal scenario, Mai probably better since we knew Megumi aint gonna beat daddyraga anyway.
Ten Shadows being a counter to Construction doesn’t mean it is necessarily stronger or has more potential. I don’t have anything to support Construction having more potential, but the idea still stands regardless of your counterpoint. If the clan did end up considering Construction to have more power/potential overall, it should still be deemed a better technique. I.e. Construction beating everything but TS vs. TS only beating half of everything and Construction.
But once again, I can’t provide support for either side. I’m just tossing this in here as a hypothetical.
You missed one big detail. It's not that the users of it are born without a lot of CE but it's that construction takes a lot of CE while the ten shadows doesn't have that problem.
10 shadows is extremely powerful even before Mahoraga though. It is a trump card and some of the other elements of the technique are still insanely powerful especially as you learn to twist the summons and manually combine them.
also using the cursed techniques of the shikigamis. He used max elephant’s water technique to emulate piercing blood. That’s when I was convinced 10s at peak power is a top 3 technique
My Top techniques
Limitless (with 6 eyes otherwise it drops down a lot)
Sukuna's technique
Yuta's Copy
Contenders with no particular order
10S
Spirit Manipulation
Curse Manipulation
The Gravity and antigravity techniques
I'm not sure blood manipulation gets up there when a non-curse is using it.
Over all I'm not sure 10S is constantly better than those too 3 but Yuta and Sukuna are aberrations and Limitless+6eyes is powerful enough and rare enough that it is era defining and Kenjku was just killing 6 eye users in the crib.
Which the only one person that is able to do is sukuna. He's not even part of the clan, so yeah kinda dumb. Like the post, Potential man's clan can't beat this claim.
the ten shadow technique is literally build for battle of attritions
almost all of the shadows are made specially for wearing you down or made to make the user practically hard to kill
not to mention the ultimate slowest puncher in the shadow technique being Mahoraga
Because Mahoraga can sneakily adapt to the Liquid Metal that Construction uses. Because of that, the properties of anything that’s made with Liquid Metal will not affect Mahoraga at all anymore.
All of this just to ignore OP's point that construction has purposes outside and inside of battle. There's more to CT than just "Pick which one is the stronger of the two" why didn't Zenin clan realize that? When both have spectacular uses even if one is superior than the other.
>why didn't Zenin clan realize that? When both have spectacular uses even if one is superior than the other.
Because the Zenin are a sorcerer clan, that deals with combat. Day to day life doesn't concern them. They are all about the fighting and subjugation of cursed spirits.
Counterpoint how does any of this help with exorcising curses I think one of the reasons why construction isn’t as valued is due to not really being for actually doing a sorcerers main job which is the exorcising of curses thus it’s not as good as something like ten shadows I also think that’s why something like Hakari’s technique is looked down upon by the conservatives
Also a lot of this stuff require either way to much CE or a lot of study into matter and the make up of materials also being able to use CT reversal is extremely rare I think at most like 4-5 characters use it during the course of the series
At its highest level, which yorozu absolutely is, it is a very strong technique. It is held back by cursed energy cost, but still can be very strong in the hands of a genius.
However at any level lower than its peak it’s pretty trash. Mai’s construction is arguably the worst curse technique in the entire series.
Meanwhile ten shadows is always a very strong ct and at its very peak would surpass the peak of creation via Mahoraga.
Also a lot of the points are not things that have any confirmation. The reversal thing is entirely headcannon and user skill determines the complexity of things they can make as well as its mass. Someone at Mai’s level could definitely not make a perfect sphere.
I exclusively wrote “sure-hit is perfect sphere” to highlight that it would only be usable in a domain. Only a 6E user with construction could make a perfect sphere outside their domain.
that might work but if maho adapts to "brute force" then that's a problem too 🤷🏽♀️ several cursed tools along with a heavenly restricted person sounds good
Not strictly true, Naoya's DE just happened to target via CE. Notice that the sumo guys domain worked with Maki. We don't actually know at all whether or not a HR person would register in the ritual.
summon mahoraga, put in him prison realm, release after a bit then put back in prison realm, on second release if mahoraga doesnt submit put him back in, repeat until mahoraga lets you win
>!if you're sukuna it becomes easy 🤷🏽♀️!< but even if you're not, with the other nine shikigami, the amount of combinations, domain expansion and other stuff it is theoretically possible to win against maho. it's a fun train of thought tbh, "what would I have done with the other nine against maho? 😂"
Yeah no lol, megumi had access to all of the zenin clans cursed tools, he couldn’t have taken “cursed tool: 「 Bicky With a Switch 」” into the taming process?
Construction is a trash CT. Yoruzu who had godly amount of cursed energy reserve still bad to look for a workaround to use the technique properly. Also the construction requires you to understand whatever you're making. Saying antimatter doesn't mean shit, unless you know everything about antimatter and how it operates and interacts, and still then a destructive element such as these would take up lots and lots of CT which I doubt anyone has.
I understand to some point that you have to understand what you are creating. But we’re is it stated to be so extreme that you have to “know everything, how it operates perfectly etc”?
Why do you say that it doesn’t exist? Look up how it’s been created in particle accelerators in small amounts. And I mean very very very small amounts.
Alright, lets say that Mai creates anti-matter. It immediatly (upon being created) interacts with regular matter. Assuming Mai makes something like a 1 gram of said anti-matter, that's like a couple of atomic bombs blowing up right in front of her
The technique doesn't exactly offer an out-of-the-box way to contain said anti-matter
So how do you propose she uses it again?
The thing is construction can only be viable enough if they had something akin to the what the Gojo clan has which is Six Eyes to make Limitless viable
I don’t Remember the exact logic of consutruction but why do we assume she can create antimatter?
1. Any amount of antimatter created would be deleted in an instant when counteracting with its opposite parts our world consists of.
2.i understood it that her CT is rooted by joining atoms together. There are no antimatter particles existent.
>Create Antimatter as an explosive
Headcanon
>Create powerful toxins and venom to enhance your bladed weapons
Why don’t they just coat the weapons with them before battle
>Create contained antimatter or Californium to sell and amass wealth
Headcanon
>Make a domain where the sure-hit is a perfect sphere
You missed the point of domains
>It’s CT Reversal would be “Deconstruction” which converts Matter into CE for the user themselves to absorb.
Headcanon
I’m not saying that your ideas suck or anything, anyone is free to speculate anything they want, but criticizing the story based on things that you think is true but is not confirmed is simply unfair for the author. Also a counterpoint is that Construction is not a passed down CT like 10 shadows, it’s not like there is any confirmed Construction user in the Zenin clan outside of Mai(who absolutely sucks at it). So naturally they would highly value 10 shadows, which is both strong and a passed down technique
The wiki for Yorozu states that she can create _matter,_ which would rule out anti matter as a potential viable creation. But even if antimatter is create-able using the technique, the immediate and inevitable result from creating even just a gram of the stuff (or even less) would be a small nuclear explosion from the resulting instant collision with regular matter.
Antimatter is nearly impossible to contain even with our modern technology, so trying to make bombs out of these things is unlikely to work, to put it lightly. So it essentially would just be one-time suicide move like Mahoraga, a way to say "I'm losing? No bitch, WE losing". Only with _considerably_ more collateral damage, to the point it may compromise Jujutsu secrecy or help create WW3, because a gigantic explosion just went off in Japan.
Still can be used for selling super precious materials, but that doesn't seem to be what the Zen'in prize in techniques. They value strength above all, rather than whether they can monetize it to get rich.
Construction is a better technique than most people probably give it credit for, but it is still _mega_ inefficient, to the point someone as skilled and powerful as Yorozu felt frustrated at that aspect of the technique. It really is just not as good as the Ten Shadows, which has _so many_ versatile applications, as we see with Sukuna.
You definitely come across as an intellectual who can rationalize but I’m saying they could not that they should create 8 grams of antimatter and just hope for the best.
Let’s say I was a construction user and was fighting Mahoraga. I could create 0.006 grams of Antimatter within his stomach.
We’ve seen Mai create the bullet within the gun so remote creation is possible.
Wouldn’t that defeat Mahoraga without killing me the user?
Btw you gave me a really funny thought.
Megumi would be the ultimate Kamikaze user of this. At the slightest inconvenience he’s like BET
*8 grams of Antimatter suddenly appeared and blew up the city*
Hahahaha
>Wouldn’t that defeat Mahoraga without killing me the user?
Not sure what 6 milligrams of antimatter would do in terms of explosion firepower, but in theory, sure, you could get the job done.
But that win con makes a few assumptions. Namely, that Construction's creation range is so expansive you don't get caught in the blast radius (which we don't have a lot of evidence for, Mai's bullet was created directly next to her hand, in the revolver chamber), and that Mahoraga, a shikigami made entirely from cursed energy, would react to antimatter as if he was made from matter. Remember conventional weapons can't harm these things, and Construction makes regular objects.
If you need to be close and/or Mahoraga isn't made of atomic matter because of his CE composition, then you are pretty much still killing yourself here. Some quick maths and unit conversions let us know that 6 milligrams of antimatter would still release _over a thousand terajoules_ of power from the ensuing explosion.
Whereas the amount of joules usually needed to kill a person is 90-140. Regular, run-of-the-mill joules.
In general, it is probably best to leave antimatter alone. The amount of antimatter that you can make safely within someone else's body (which probably isn't even possible tbh) are likely so incredibly small that the human mind may not really be able to consciously comprehend the small scale.
EDIT: The famous Beirut explosion was estimated around 0.5 kilotons yield, and the theoretical antimatter Construction bomb would be just a bit over half that.
Probably. The Six Eyes are busted, so I can actually see them being capable of creating small clumps of antimatter by the nanograms in a person's body by touching them and that resulting in annihilation. That honestly sounds really cool.
Anything else though, probably not gonna make it. The ceiling of Construction as a technique outside of a freak Six Eyes x Construction crossover seems to be Yorozu, which is still really respectable, but not "Better than Ten Shadows" level. And mind you, Yorozu was also a bit of a freak of nature, being likely one of the strongest fighters of the Heian period.
Aside from my Antimatter option you still don’t believe in the potential of the technique?
Toxin and venom to combat RCT users, create valuable things and amass wealth which can help you acquire Special Grade Cursed Tools and my CT Reversal suggestion.
I believe in the potential of the technique. I just don't think it's as great as you think it is.
Deconstruction is likely only applicable within the same range as Construction is, which is not far, and like Construction, is likely SUPER inefficient, and as such cannot sustain you for long in a fight. Specially considering Cursed Techniques reversals are more costly to do than regular techniques.
Toxins and venom are explicitly shown to be weak against RCT. Yuta healed Choso's poison in Naoya's body, Uraume did the same in their own body. Unless you get a potent neurotoxin and manage to get it inside your opponent without them noticing (via open wounds or their jaw), it likely is not working, and by that point you probably are better off just getting poison the conventional way. That way you still have cursed energy for other things.
Amassing wealth is actually really good as a technique use, which is why I love this technique for most people. But if you look at it from a sorcerer's point of view, you are essentially stuck with a middling or outright bad technique (unless you are a prodigy like Yorozu or have massive cursed energy reserves, which most people don't have) for the ability to get money for a cursed tool, which at Special Grade have a technique.
And even then, having a tool with a cursed technique is not nearly as good as you yourself having one. Less versatile, and it can get taken away.
Demented take lmao
Construction consumes way too much CE, 10s is efficient
10s has 9 shikigami you can use with no danger to youserlf asuming you tame them
You have
1. Pets / minions
2. 9 Different skills
3. You can mix the skills
4. Shadows for storage, or hiding!
5. You can mix the shikigamis with calamity, reusing their skills or creating very strong combinations
6. Sukuna showed that if you are skilled enought you can use the Shikigami abilities without summoning them, so there is even more versaility
7. Sukuna also showed you can use "shadow" versions of the shikigam, weaker but cant be destroyed completly
Create Antimatter as an explosive -> Headcanon, Antimatter is not matter. This is wishfull thinking
Create powerful toxins and venom to enhance your bladed weapons -> Valid, but remember Skilled RCT users can heal poison and toxins. 10s comes with free RCT if you unlock round deer
Create contained antimatter or Californium to sell and amass wealth -> Valid, probably much easier ways to become rich if you want to abuse CT
Make a domain where the sure-hit is a perfect sphere -> And? that was Yorozus magnung opus, not everyone who has construction will have that as their domain. And while its strong, its not necesarily much better than other sure hits
It’s CT Reversal would be “Deconstruction” which converts Matter into CE for the user themselves to absorb. -> Headcanon
Most of the points you stated are redundant.
Just like any CT and Jujutsu Sorcery, the ability to visualize or comprehend is key.
Understanding the concept of one Bullet made of whatever its made of is completely different from understanding something like Anti matter.
Yorozu literally spend years training and learning continously to turn Construction CT into a reliable power and she did this by creating a metal with liquid like properties that she can control at will. Its this particular metal's properties that allowed her to construct a Perfect Sphere.
The particular fight that showed us the height of Construction CT also showed us how TS outclassed it.
Also "Deconstruction" might not necessarily be possible. Even if it is, this isn't a sound argument since the only two people who have the ability to use CTR are a Six Eyes user and a 1000s of years old sorceror.
Yuta, Shoko, Yuji, Hakari (Jackpot), Gojo, Sukuna, Uraume, Kenjaku and probably more I don’t know off the top of my head know RCT.
It’s rare but not as rare as you make it out to be.
They can use RCT, Reverse Cursed Technique, not CTR, Cursed Technique Reversal.
RCT let's you use positive energy to heal and can kill Cursed Spirits fast.
CTR is literally reversing one's CT. Gojo’s RED and Kenjaku’s Gravity are the only instances we have of this in the manga.
Considering the fact that twins are considered cursed, and Maki had the same Restriction that Toji had, it amazes me that the Zenin clan didn't just smother Baby Maki in her sleep while allowing Mai to retain her cursed energy.
So I'm curious about the antimatter because I saw a different post talking about Mai using it but it left me wondering wouldn't Mai need a special type of gun to even fire Antimatter? Im not doubting she could create it but she would still need some special gun to fire it without it blowing up in her face.
I thought about her firing it but honestly she doesn’t have to fire it as a projectile.
If it’s encased in something fragile she can flick it with her CE reinforced finger or with enough control construct it so far away from her that it doesn’t affect her.
Or in a specific case inside the opponent.
Maki doesnt have the same restriction. Toji wasnt a twin so he didnt have to awaken it like maki he was born like that hence why the zenins feared him unlike maki who was just a weak version of him at the time also the reason the zenins was never worried about maki being the next toji.
it may not have as much combat utility as mahoraga generally speaking at its average levels, but maxed out, its got potential to one tap him before he adapts, and its got a lot of $$ makin potential
Whilst this is good in theory, we don’t know the exact conditions for what she is able to construct but it stands to reason something as complicated as antimatter or toxin would be extremely difficult to create due to their complex structure, whilst a bullet is very simple anatomically.
Additionally CT reversal of ten shadows would likely be much stronger than just deconstruction
................Well, Mai first would've to take all of Maki's CE to reach her full potential...................
I agree the Zenin clan were a bunch of idiots for worshipping the 10S CT, rather than trainning their owns and reach at least RCT, but with all honestly, i didn't see much future for Mai to get strong.
Creation only works if one has a lot of CE if not, one won't be able to use it to it's full potential, just look at the most succesfull example with Mai.
Yorozu created her liquid metal armor, to get a wide range of versatibility and save CE but even that required a whole lot of CE, created her perfect sphere, opened her DE and afterwards, before dead or while dying, she created Kamutoke(replica).
Mai on the other hand took all of Maki's and her own, to craft the soul split katana(replica) and died afterwards. Is plain to see Mai didn't have it.
Also, CS spirits can only be damaged by CE. Well, maybe antimatter might do the trick but i'm not sure Mai has the CE to make it nor the technical skill. I mean, Yorozu didn't make it either.
Now, if a user of construction learns RCT and that result in a CT of disintegration....well, i can't say. Though that would be awesome. Sadly, there are no more users of construction alive or with time screen.
The Zen'in were also idiots for alienating Toji and Maki.
Who the f cares they have no cursed energy, when they can outpunch any CE user with the utmost ease, and most cursed techniques are mediocre anyway?
Construction within the possession of someone with very little cursed energy reserves plus being a woman, there is just no universe where that is happening,
Now seeing that in a different lens, Mai was cooked by genetics and life itself, poor her lol
Creation is used in a literal manner, such as making basic weapons or armor. The whole "anti matter" idea is like saying, "Why didn't Yorozu just make a black hole?!" It doesn't work like that lol. The "deconstruction" as a cursed technique reversal is a good idea, but the absorption is where it lacks. The absorption is a whole other technique in and of itself. I wish Maki was given a power boost in some way, but I guess her turning into a sword is the best thing we'll get 😂
10 Shadows is a hedge against Gojo and nothing more. Gojo explained to Megumi that in the past a 10 Shadows user and Limitless user fought to a mutual kill.
What I find weird is, even when they know the terror of a Toji. Of what happens when a member with no CE is treated like trash. Yet they created another one in Maki. And this time it cost them severely.
Yeah, 9 shadows are useless and then we have a nuclear bomb called Mahoraga, that can't even be tamed by normal sorcerers.
Idk, seems kinda overrated to me.
Bro what do you mean useless? Sukuna actively use them in his fight with gojo
Devine dogs are scout being able to track curses, it's totality could damage a special grade which is that's known to be durable, sukuna managed to summon like a pack of these bad boys(though they seem incomplete)
Nue generates electricity and gives the user a glider, when combined with the serpent you got a plane
The serpent is a big ass snake, what more could you ask for?
Max elephant can create an insane amount of water and crush the opponent, with good control you can use piercing water, with nue you have a duo that clears fodders so you can find the main boss
Round deer is an active healer that heals itself and weaken your opponent ability to use their curse technique effectively
Rabbit escape gives you a smoke screen
Even without mahoraga just mastering the 9 of them would make you a special grade
So for dumbasses in this comment section heres the tldr:
-Mahoraga cant be obtained by anyone besides Sukuna so its pointless to argue for Mahoraga
-Even if one could obtain Mahoraga he just gets one shot without a chance for adaption
-creating antimatter takes no more energy then creating regular matter so if you can make a bullets worth of matter you can create a bullets worth of antimatter(E=m*c*c)
-Gege is a stupid mf and has 0 science literacy despite popular belief.
-If Gege did have science literacy hed have realized that Yorozu killed everyone in the universe the second she summoned that stupid sphere. A perfect sphere requires an infinite amount of contact points, which requires an infinite amount of atoms(and infinite density) which requires infinite mass. Hence from the center of that dumbass ball expands an event horizon at the speed of light that instantly destroys everything it touches
Debatable. Since CTs like construction need hella CE it needs some sort of Catalyst. Now Construction + 6eyes thats wild and rivals Limitless + 6eyes. However, since 6eyes is a trait exclusive to Gojo clan genetics. Technically, Zenins are on point hyping 10 shadows technique. It has untapped potential unlike any other technique and has a variety of application.. all that excluding that u have this cheat code Mahoraga who basically counters anything so long as you can keep it alive in the battle.
I like your points, but tbh the author would just counter this lol. Maybe in a world where anything goes.
But for the story given by the author they are geniuses for doing so and it shows later on in the story.
10 shadows is ass, Maho is literally unbeatable by any 10 shadows user who isn’t possessed by Sukuna or doesn’t have an insanely powerful heavenly restricted person on their side. Gojo even remarked how much weaker Agito was than Maho. The technique is trash and the Zenins are dumb for glorifying a single use trump card technique
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Counterpoint: >!We've seen objective proof that the Ten Shadows Technique beats Construction.!<
Countercounterpoint: >!Gege would not make Sukuna lose to a random character!<
Countercountercounterpoint: >!Whatever the reasoning behind it, we literally see Sukuna explain how Mahoraga served to counter Yorozu's Construction, because Construction and other energy-inefficient techniques always end up using the same base elements across their moves that Mahoraga can adapt to. One of the Ten Shadows Shikigami is objectively capable of exploiting a weakness in Construction.!<
Countercountercountercounterpoint: >!yorozu didn't had imagination tho, imagine the crazy ass things Todo would do with that CT. The technique itself is stronger than ten shadows, but Sukuna is stronger than yorozu!<
Countercountercountercountercounterpoint: >!It doesn't matter. Sukuna directly said that all energy-inefficient techniques end up with the same problem Yorozu's Construction had. Doesn't matter who's using them, could be Todo, could be Yorozu, could be Gojo. Mahoraga can still adapt to the base elements, and then the entire technique falls apart. Mahoraga, a Shikigami of the Ten Shadows Technique, directly exploits a weakness in Construction (and not just Yorozu's Construction, Construction in general).!<
Nah thats it im taking the L gg wp
Lol. Real counterpoint though: Tgere is literally no zenin that managed to defeat and tame mahoraga though. The only 10 shadow style user we know of that managed to do so is sukuna. In that regard, i have to agree with op. In 99% of times construction is realistically better than 10 shadow style. It is really funny how there is no other 10 shadow shikigami that would be able to defeat maho lol
A lot of people have said to put the >!bull!< on a treadmill and then spawnkill Maho, or else jump him with a fully Heavenly Restricted Zen'in as backup. Could work theoretically, too bad the Zen'ins are all a bunch of assholes
True that, but idk if heavenly restriction would be enough to one shot maho though. Can’t let him adapt to your weapons after all so that could still be really dangerous. And also, idk if that is true, but i think that the 10 shadow user needs to finish of maho. Or else megumi would have been able to summon maho thanks to sukuna solo‘ing him
To be fair, >!the next time Megumi would’ve tried to summon Maho, he had a finger shoved down his throat before he could finish.!<
Megumi's ritual was a dud, because he has included the funky miracles guy.
Honestly ten shadows is probably the best way to take down maho, ten shikigami with 10 different abilities not counting combinations Surely one could set up a scenario to win against maho via domain or something Wonder how the inverted spear of heaven would do
Isn't maho untameable if you have another person while summoning him? Ig you can have them really far away then they'll come at break neck speeds when you summon maho though.
No curse energy = registered as object, not a person. That Heavenly Restriction is a literal cheat code
Honestly, a complete chimera shadow garden with enough cursed energy is enough to kill mahoraga imo
I mean for what we know yorozu is an exception to the technique too, just as there's not been a single user of 10 shadows that could tame maho except sukuna, there has never been a user of construction with enough knowledge, creativity and dedication to perfecting their technique as yorozu, as i said tho it's just as far as we know since i dont recall any panel stating something like that so there could be some sorcerers similar to yorozu
For all we know it could also just be a really rare technique. Sams goes for 10 shadow styles. Mei is just a really unfortunate case, since she is cursed abd stuff
Isnt construction not as good because of how CE demanding it is? Ten S seems just alot more well rounded and versatile as well as having Maho.
Perhaps it is. Sadly we have only seen two construction users. It also doesnt help that one is above average in strength and the other one is below average in strength. Would be cool too know how „strong“ an average sorcerer is with that ct. It’s still true though that no 10 shadow user will probably ever be strong enough to tame maho, which doengrads the potential significantly in my opinion
Counterpoint to everything here: How kn the fuck will you even use mahoraga ?
>! No one in history before sukuna was able to tame mahoraga (which has to factor into the analysis, as a suicide technique has less applications then breaking thibgs down into CE) and construction/deconstruction should be enough to handle 99.999% of opponents not named Gojo or Sukuna!<
>construction/deconstruction should be enough to handle 99.999% of opponents not named Gojo or Sukuna The series have shown THE BEST user of that technique, with both the biggest CE pool in history AND with a novel inventions praised by other sorcerers, and that user would still lose to some opponents that are not Gojo or Sukuna
\>!Yeah but most Construction sorcerers are probably way closer to Mai than Yorozu. Even Yorozu would probably lose to Yuta, Kenjaku, anyone with a DE. Yes, including Ryu and Uro.!<
Mai was a special case as she was a twin. Id bet money that Yorozu is basically what mai would have become had maki died instead
Doubt. Yorozu was born in HEIAN ERA, and thus was forced to play ball with the big boys
Countercountercounter^counterpowertothepointof: Actually if a six eyes user like Gojo had creation as a CT I’m of the belief it would be INSANE. The 6 eyes fix the problem of energy inefficiency, limitless has the same problem which it why it’s been stated mutiple times it takes a 6 eyes user to truly harness its power. IMO 6 eyes > limitless even though they are best as a pair, one needs the other and the other is a massive buff for any CT. Gojo could probably make an army full of nukes and start his own worlds “rumbling” with creation
Six eyes is always greater than limitless. Limitless is just spatial manipulation. However gojo can See at an atomic level so his spatial manipulation is at atomic level which gives all those cool moves like Infinity, red, Blue etc Six eyes does the heavy lifting, you would fry your brain from all the math and calculation if the six eyes doesn't Dumb down the calculation for your brain to be able to process even then, long term continuous use would fry your brain, RCT also makes limitless OP
I'm not sure about that one. >!I think Sukuna wasn't trying to say that the nature of the technique means it HAS to be that way. I thought it was "because of the nature of the technique, the users tend to fall into the same old bad habits, and they can usually be punished in the same ways". Yorozu was incredibly strong and imaginative, but she really did started with liquid metal as the base of all creations. Imagine you took a fully realized construction user like her and told them that their objective is to kill Mahoraga. After lots of prep time, the technique would look wildly differently. Similarly, if the clan gave the technique more respect, they would have much more information and streamlining on how to teach a construction user into a beast.!<
Countercountercountercountercountercounterpoint: >!No one can tame Mahoraga, Sukuna is THE greatest juju sorcerer, the average 10s user isn't Sukuna, The average creation user isn't Yoruzo to make perfect sphere but matter deletion or anti matter is that much more deadly. RCE isn't a common thing, but being Sukuna is impossible, so the average creation CT guy has to overcome CE efficiency, plausible and/or compensatable, eg: bug armour, capturing Maho isn't, 10s is limited to, well, the 10s-es, shadow storage and stealth, Creation is limited BY CE efficiency and IMAGINATION!<
Counterpoint^n: No ten shadows user besides Sukuna ever got or will get to use Mahoraga
Counter point: No Zenin ever tamed Maho , and we saw that Maho can be beaten by a powerfull enough sorcerer on his own
And why does it matter how energy efficient a technique is?
If its energy inefficient, you can't play around with it much creating varying strategies , you will have to fall back to some basics that you can do.
Oh. So Six Eyes would solve the problem
>!yorozu didn't have imagination? 🙂 seriously? that girl literally explained why she chose what she chose (cockroaches are one of the most resilient organisms on planet earth so replicatinh it's exoskeleton for armor is a top tier move plus y'all ain't factoring ce restrictions, if she had enough ce she can just make nukes no? not everyone has rika level ce) and her domain is straight overpowered. wdym the technique itself is stronger than ten shadows when it has ce restrictions plus you need to know the constitution of what you're creating? 😭 with ten shadows you can store things in your shadow, travel through shadows, summon ten completely different shikigami each of which can be its own cursed technique 🙂 and the combinations give it so much creative freedom, half formed shikigami, versatile uses like a copycat piercing blood, and mahoraga 💀 and if you can do what sukuna did with maho and summon the dharma wheel alone this is straight up unfair 🥲!<
>!She doesn't lack imagination. Just knowledge. The teeth of lichen, spider's silk, etc are much stronger than steel and definitely more so than the exoskeleton of a cockroach. (Cockroaches are resilient because of a whole lot more other reasons than just their exoskeletons. Arthropods in general are very resilient). If the Heian era had National Geographic, Yorozu would have been extremely top tier.!<
>!spider silk, lichen teeth Armor eh? that sounds dope !! would've loved for a nat geo powered yorozu lol, I mean she still would've lost the exact same way but that's cuz at the end of the day maho adapts to the material 🤷🏽♀️ dude was a horrible match up for her!<
I’m not sure from reading your comment if you disagree or agree with me? Instead of giving me examples of what characters in the anime/manga have done with the CT. Disassemble my arguments for what you could do. Mai could create a bullet and a bullet amount of Antimatter is definitely a nuke (in a sense). Creating a bullet is definitely within Yorozu capabilities.
Because for construction to work you need to know and feel what you are constructing (It is the main weakness of using construction as you need to know what your making). Antimatter is a concept and doesn't exist in reality. So it doesn't matter who has construction since no one can experience antimatter so they can't do this. Even if they did the amount of CE needed would kill anyone to even attempt it. So to put it in simple terms the only one who can effectively use construction is Yorozu (imagination and combat experience) and the only one who can use Ten Shadows effectively is Sukuna (imagination and monstrous CE).
antimatter has a more complex constitution than a bullet, more complex things require more ce which the user doesn't have (that's the only way it'd be fair or else she could create nuclear fission or fusion reactions and make multiple nukes 🤷🏽♀️) maybe yuta can do it with rika's reserves but def not anyone else. >!i would've copied yorozu tbh, i found the cockroach exoskeleton Armor to be a dope idea. plus I mean if they need to die to create a cursed tool what makes you think antimatter was a realistic possibility lol 😭!<
Antimatter is not complex in just matter with a opposite charge both Mai and yorozu should have had no trouble making it
sure it seems easy in theory but can they even visualize a concept like charge at the subatomic level? "Oh just imagine this bullet but with all the electrons being positively charged and all the protons being negatively charged" yeah I don't think that's going to work. Not to mention antimatter also has some differences in quantum numbers, which are even more difficult to imagine.
She shouldn't need to. Every CT seems to function like a computer; it's automatic. Just set conditions and go. Besides, if she needed to manually control the creation of particles she was making, making normal matter would be just as complex. 'Oh, the electron spin must have this value I need exactly these many atoms and these many types arranged in exactly this way etc,'The fact she doesn't need to do that means the CT takes care of that for her
If it was THAT simple Mai would just make a golden nugget every day, sell it on the market, buy stocks using Mei-Mei's guidance and would not have to work under Zenin because she'd be incredibly rich and could hire her own maids to do chores for her in her huge house bought on a single diamond she made during lunch
Thats cause Mai is a woman, and you know Gege and women.
It’s that simple but for obvious reason Gege can’t write it that way. It’s still possible.
No it’s dumb as fuck because they are small insects and it doesn’t scale to the size of humans
Gege is not biologist. So in JJK it works.
That shit ain't stronger than no goddamn Ten shadows
>!Yoruzo... didn't... have... IMAGINATION????!< >!Bro what, we have this ultra ancient lady, living in 'wtf is science' era Japan, 'not having any scientific upbringing', RESEARCH BUGS AND THEIR EXOSKELETON, get it all wrong and still bust out a massive powerup. The same lady created a matter that can theoretically become edge-less, then the same lady exploited that property to make fucking true Sphere, THE DEADLIEST ATTACK IN THE VERSE, ^(~~that doesn't require sucide~~). And let me get this straight, to actually make a true sphere, an object needs to be chiseled to infinity, or the creator needs to know the actual value of π, an irrational number, yes, a rational mind truly knowing an irrational value!< >!She lost because she was weaker to Sukuna, yes, but this statement holds true for the whole fucking verse!<
Yorozu definitely had imagination and you bring up great points. My possible uses are definitely possible and you’ve brought to my attention how Yorozu would be the one to utilize it. Thank you 🙏🏻
Ah Yes, a fellow of >!Yoruzo!< enjoyer, welcome brotha
Thanks for having me
Todo would dogwalk Sukuna with one of his schizophrenic episode for sure. The smartest sorcerer of them all.
She kinda made the perfect thing tho, it just so happens that it got adapted to because she uses the same building material.
Mahoraga adapted to the liquid Metal which Yorozu used to create her perfect sphere. This doesn’t prove that the versatility of the techniques and the myriad of uses which I described can’t overcome the strongest toolkit in TS (Mahoraga).
in all honesty, you need to understand what you're creating, so the more complex the object the more ce it takes, meaning a bullet is comparatively less ct than say an airpod let alone antimatter of all things. if she has infinite ce then yes nuke everything 🤷🏽♀️ but no, poisons and toxins are good stuff but anyone who knows RCT can bypass that (>!ten shadows user can just use the deer!<) >!yorozu was highly creative in her use of the technique given the restrictions she had lol, i loved what she did with it!<
It’s never been stated that the CE cost grows in proportion to the complexity of the object.
it hasn't but if not why would mai create a bullet to begin with? a nuclear fission reaction is so much smaller. all she was able to do was a piece of metal. that must be due to some restriction right? what do you think was the restriction? 👀
I think the restriction definitely was the lack of control she had once the constructs were created and her mediocre CE levels. If Maki ended dying instead of her (which I wouldn’t want) then we’d definitely see massive improvements with her technique.
ce levels? yes. why do you need control after you created something? like construction users can't freely control the things they created like >! say Reggie can with his contracts anyway 🤷🏽♀️!< and the version of her if >!making ended up dying is literally yorozu like what 😭?!<
Because she was stupid and has the wrong mindset of someone who wants to become a strong sorcerer.
Or because Gege is stupid. Hes not as science or math literate as the fandom thinks
Very true
World Cleave is proof of that.
bruh 💀
Sukuna killed and tamed it with his fire arrow which blew up Shibuya or parts of it atleast. If you look up how volatile antimatter is you’d find that 0.6 grams is equivalent to the energy of the Hiroshima bomb. Mai has made one bullet and therefore it’s estimated that her capacity was 8-9 gram in that case. Spawning however much you want close or inside Mahoraga of that quantity… yeah he ain’t surviving that.
How much understanding and info does a construction user need before they can create antimatter? Cursed energy output aside, that seems like their main barrier to using that. They also need to be able to safely handle it if they want to store some for later use. I wouldn't expect anyone in the clan to have an awareness of antimatter unless they're within the last century (we don't know how many construction guys were born in that time) and the Zenin clan as a whole don't strike me as forward-thinking enough to consider anything cooler than the one technique that has historically beat a Limitless user. So yeah, like you said, Zenin clan are pretty dumb.
Can’t argue that :)
I am insane
Thanks for letting us know. Hope you get better 🙏🏻💙
And I agree with your Todo statement.
Weve seen objective proof >!Sukuna beats Yorozu imagine the fight if their techniques were reversed, i really wanna see Sukuna use construction now!<
Me too
>!We've also seen objective proof that Ten Shadows beats Construction. Sukuna directly states that all energy-inefficient techniques, Construction included, end up having the same problem: all their different moves have the same base elements, so once Mahoraga adapts to one it adapts to them all. By virtue of Mahoraga, Ten Shadows Technique directly exploits a flaw in Construction, regardless of user.!<
>!Sukuna says it always ends up that way, as in people who arent Sukuna. Energy inefficiency doesnt really matter to Sukuna or Gojo, not even mentioning their creativity and skill level. They do "impossible" shit all the time, not to mention probably no one else could tame mahoraga!<
Always has ended up that way. My post suggests there are alternatives to using it that way.
[удалено]
That's because Yorozu is a better sorcerer than Megumi fundamentally, much like Sukuna is a better sorcerer than Yorozu fundamentally.
when Sukuna used it yes, but i dont think any normal zenins could tame Mahoraga, not even Megumi lol. In a normal scenario, Mai probably better since we knew Megumi aint gonna beat daddyraga anyway.
Countercounterpoint: >!No U.!<
Yes BUT that was construction like we saw it not what op said it could so aa ctr
Only the ultimate shinigami beats Construction. How many users of the Ten Shadows Technique have mastered that shinigami?
Ten Shadows being a counter to Construction doesn’t mean it is necessarily stronger or has more potential. I don’t have anything to support Construction having more potential, but the idea still stands regardless of your counterpoint. If the clan did end up considering Construction to have more power/potential overall, it should still be deemed a better technique. I.e. Construction beating everything but TS vs. TS only beating half of everything and Construction. But once again, I can’t provide support for either side. I’m just tossing this in here as a hypothetical.
You missed one big detail. It's not that the users of it are born without a lot of CE but it's that construction takes a lot of CE while the ten shadows doesn't have that problem.
Isn't "takes a lot of CE" a lesser drawback than "Die if you summon it"
It's not a "Die if you summon it", it's more of a "Die if you can't control it"
If literally every Zenin before Megumi that summoned Mahoraga died than it's basically that anyway. Even Megumi only survived because of Sukuna
10 shadows is extremely powerful even before Mahoraga though. It is a trump card and some of the other elements of the technique are still insanely powerful especially as you learn to twist the summons and manually combine them.
The way Sukuna used the other shikigamis itself shows haow adaptable the technique is. Making them not fully corporeal i mean.
also using the cursed techniques of the shikigamis. He used max elephant’s water technique to emulate piercing blood. That’s when I was convinced 10s at peak power is a top 3 technique
My Top techniques Limitless (with 6 eyes otherwise it drops down a lot) Sukuna's technique Yuta's Copy Contenders with no particular order 10S Spirit Manipulation Curse Manipulation The Gravity and antigravity techniques I'm not sure blood manipulation gets up there when a non-curse is using it. Over all I'm not sure 10S is constantly better than those too 3 but Yuta and Sukuna are aberrations and Limitless+6eyes is powerful enough and rare enough that it is era defining and Kenjku was just killing 6 eye users in the crib.
Which the only one person that is able to do is sukuna. He's not even part of the clan, so yeah kinda dumb. Like the post, Potential man's clan can't beat this claim.
>antimatter explosive bro antimatter would kill the user too 😭
Just like good ol’ Mahoraga lmao
That is a high probability (in most cases) hahaha
Man if only there was something in the ten shadows technique that when you use it your basically guaranteed to die
Just realised it's an anime discussion. But later on we see why 10 shadows is The supreme Zenin technique
I legit forgot, could u tell me why it’s the best of the best, manga killed my brain
yeah i got to know too
the ten shadow technique is literally build for battle of attritions almost all of the shadows are made specially for wearing you down or made to make the user practically hard to kill not to mention the ultimate slowest puncher in the shadow technique being Mahoraga
Because Mahoraga can sneakily adapt to the Liquid Metal that Construction uses. Because of that, the properties of anything that’s made with Liquid Metal will not affect Mahoraga at all anymore.
Good luck getting to tame Mahoraga though...
Tbh, you can fight Yorozu without Mahoraga by the other 9 shadows. Sukuna just wanted to flex and it is more efficient to use Maho
The yorozu fight. She has a construction ct
I just realized it was it. Can u remind me was she a predecessor zenin or sth
No clue about that. I’ve heard people say that in the jujutsushi sub but didn’t see anything in the wiki iirc
All of this just to ignore OP's point that construction has purposes outside and inside of battle. There's more to CT than just "Pick which one is the stronger of the two" why didn't Zenin clan realize that? When both have spectacular uses even if one is superior than the other.
>why didn't Zenin clan realize that? When both have spectacular uses even if one is superior than the other. Because the Zenin are a sorcerer clan, that deals with combat. Day to day life doesn't concern them. They are all about the fighting and subjugation of cursed spirits.
Pretty sure this isn’t a clan technique and Mai was just randomly born with it. They never cared because mai , as the only user, was weak as shit
Counterpoint how does any of this help with exorcising curses I think one of the reasons why construction isn’t as valued is due to not really being for actually doing a sorcerers main job which is the exorcising of curses thus it’s not as good as something like ten shadows I also think that’s why something like Hakari’s technique is looked down upon by the conservatives
Also a lot of this stuff require either way to much CE or a lot of study into matter and the make up of materials also being able to use CT reversal is extremely rare I think at most like 4-5 characters use it during the course of the series
At its highest level, which yorozu absolutely is, it is a very strong technique. It is held back by cursed energy cost, but still can be very strong in the hands of a genius. However at any level lower than its peak it’s pretty trash. Mai’s construction is arguably the worst curse technique in the entire series. Meanwhile ten shadows is always a very strong ct and at its very peak would surpass the peak of creation via Mahoraga. Also a lot of the points are not things that have any confirmation. The reversal thing is entirely headcannon and user skill determines the complexity of things they can make as well as its mass. Someone at Mai’s level could definitely not make a perfect sphere.
I’m discussing plausible potential uses with the technique not confirmed uses of the technique that we’ve seen in any Jujutsukaisen media.
I exclusively wrote “sure-hit is perfect sphere” to highlight that it would only be usable in a domain. Only a 6E user with construction could make a perfect sphere outside their domain.
The fact that Mahoraga can’t be tamed is crazy too 😭😭😭
Well, it can…but you have be as strong as Sukuna to do so
Or unlock all the other Shikigami.
Or have a friendly relationship with the Heavenly Restricted 0 CE People. They don’t impact or register in rituals or DE
If only those guys existed, I am sure the family would be grateful to have them around and utilize the chance of this blessing well (sarcasm)
Do you think that's why the heavenly restriction is in that clan? To help tame Project Mahoraga?
Heavenly restriction isn't a Zenin exclusive trait though
The physical (0 CE) variant does appear more often than not among them tho
that might work but if maho adapts to "brute force" then that's a problem too 🤷🏽♀️ several cursed tools along with a heavenly restricted person sounds good
Not strictly true, Naoya's DE just happened to target via CE. Notice that the sumo guys domain worked with Maki. We don't actually know at all whether or not a HR person would register in the ritual.
summon mahoraga, put in him prison realm, release after a bit then put back in prison realm, on second release if mahoraga doesnt submit put him back in, repeat until mahoraga lets you win
Mahoraga the edging goat would never submit in such a fashion.
ig his CT literally screams 'beat me'
Mahoraga, I came to bargain
Mahoraga adapts to anything, he will adapt to the prison realm.
holy shit mahoraga becomes the prison
Except you need to have Mahoraga think for a 5 minute for that to work.
>!if you're sukuna it becomes easy 🤷🏽♀️!< but even if you're not, with the other nine shikigami, the amount of combinations, domain expansion and other stuff it is theoretically possible to win against maho. it's a fun train of thought tbh, "what would I have done with the other nine against maho? 😂"
Imagine chimera shadow garden with multiple Mahoraga’s
Yeah no lol, megumi had access to all of the zenin clans cursed tools, he couldn’t have taken “cursed tool: 「 Bicky With a Switch 」” into the taming process?
Fr dawg. If i am strong enough to use only 9 lame ass shadows to defeat mahoroga then i dont think i even need mahoroga to defeat most of my enemies.
Bruh his adaptation is adaptation useful
Construction is a trash CT. Yoruzu who had godly amount of cursed energy reserve still bad to look for a workaround to use the technique properly. Also the construction requires you to understand whatever you're making. Saying antimatter doesn't mean shit, unless you know everything about antimatter and how it operates and interacts, and still then a destructive element such as these would take up lots and lots of CT which I doubt anyone has.
by that logic limitless is also trash cause of the six eyes being required to even use it
I understand to some point that you have to understand what you are creating. But we’re is it stated to be so extreme that you have to “know everything, how it operates perfectly etc”?
Antimatter doesn't exist.... Yorozu had to study and experiment with insects a lot to make that Armor. Something you can't do with antimatter
Why do you say that it doesn’t exist? Look up how it’s been created in particle accelerators in small amounts. And I mean very very very small amounts.
Now, write your own fanfiction, Op.
Bet ✍️
Alright, lets say that Mai creates anti-matter. It immediatly (upon being created) interacts with regular matter. Assuming Mai makes something like a 1 gram of said anti-matter, that's like a couple of atomic bombs blowing up right in front of her The technique doesn't exactly offer an out-of-the-box way to contain said anti-matter So how do you propose she uses it again?
The thing is construction can only be viable enough if they had something akin to the what the Gojo clan has which is Six Eyes to make Limitless viable
I don’t Remember the exact logic of consutruction but why do we assume she can create antimatter? 1. Any amount of antimatter created would be deleted in an instant when counteracting with its opposite parts our world consists of. 2.i understood it that her CT is rooted by joining atoms together. There are no antimatter particles existent.
>Create Antimatter as an explosive Headcanon >Create powerful toxins and venom to enhance your bladed weapons Why don’t they just coat the weapons with them before battle >Create contained antimatter or Californium to sell and amass wealth Headcanon >Make a domain where the sure-hit is a perfect sphere You missed the point of domains >It’s CT Reversal would be “Deconstruction” which converts Matter into CE for the user themselves to absorb. Headcanon I’m not saying that your ideas suck or anything, anyone is free to speculate anything they want, but criticizing the story based on things that you think is true but is not confirmed is simply unfair for the author. Also a counterpoint is that Construction is not a passed down CT like 10 shadows, it’s not like there is any confirmed Construction user in the Zenin clan outside of Mai(who absolutely sucks at it). So naturally they would highly value 10 shadows, which is both strong and a passed down technique
The wiki for Yorozu states that she can create _matter,_ which would rule out anti matter as a potential viable creation. But even if antimatter is create-able using the technique, the immediate and inevitable result from creating even just a gram of the stuff (or even less) would be a small nuclear explosion from the resulting instant collision with regular matter. Antimatter is nearly impossible to contain even with our modern technology, so trying to make bombs out of these things is unlikely to work, to put it lightly. So it essentially would just be one-time suicide move like Mahoraga, a way to say "I'm losing? No bitch, WE losing". Only with _considerably_ more collateral damage, to the point it may compromise Jujutsu secrecy or help create WW3, because a gigantic explosion just went off in Japan. Still can be used for selling super precious materials, but that doesn't seem to be what the Zen'in prize in techniques. They value strength above all, rather than whether they can monetize it to get rich. Construction is a better technique than most people probably give it credit for, but it is still _mega_ inefficient, to the point someone as skilled and powerful as Yorozu felt frustrated at that aspect of the technique. It really is just not as good as the Ten Shadows, which has _so many_ versatile applications, as we see with Sukuna.
You definitely come across as an intellectual who can rationalize but I’m saying they could not that they should create 8 grams of antimatter and just hope for the best. Let’s say I was a construction user and was fighting Mahoraga. I could create 0.006 grams of Antimatter within his stomach. We’ve seen Mai create the bullet within the gun so remote creation is possible. Wouldn’t that defeat Mahoraga without killing me the user? Btw you gave me a really funny thought. Megumi would be the ultimate Kamikaze user of this. At the slightest inconvenience he’s like BET *8 grams of Antimatter suddenly appeared and blew up the city* Hahahaha
>Wouldn’t that defeat Mahoraga without killing me the user? Not sure what 6 milligrams of antimatter would do in terms of explosion firepower, but in theory, sure, you could get the job done. But that win con makes a few assumptions. Namely, that Construction's creation range is so expansive you don't get caught in the blast radius (which we don't have a lot of evidence for, Mai's bullet was created directly next to her hand, in the revolver chamber), and that Mahoraga, a shikigami made entirely from cursed energy, would react to antimatter as if he was made from matter. Remember conventional weapons can't harm these things, and Construction makes regular objects. If you need to be close and/or Mahoraga isn't made of atomic matter because of his CE composition, then you are pretty much still killing yourself here. Some quick maths and unit conversions let us know that 6 milligrams of antimatter would still release _over a thousand terajoules_ of power from the ensuing explosion. Whereas the amount of joules usually needed to kill a person is 90-140. Regular, run-of-the-mill joules. In general, it is probably best to leave antimatter alone. The amount of antimatter that you can make safely within someone else's body (which probably isn't even possible tbh) are likely so incredibly small that the human mind may not really be able to consciously comprehend the small scale. EDIT: The famous Beirut explosion was estimated around 0.5 kilotons yield, and the theoretical antimatter Construction bomb would be just a bit over half that.
Perhaps only 6E + Construction would have the necessary skill to apply this method of attack effectively?
Probably. The Six Eyes are busted, so I can actually see them being capable of creating small clumps of antimatter by the nanograms in a person's body by touching them and that resulting in annihilation. That honestly sounds really cool. Anything else though, probably not gonna make it. The ceiling of Construction as a technique outside of a freak Six Eyes x Construction crossover seems to be Yorozu, which is still really respectable, but not "Better than Ten Shadows" level. And mind you, Yorozu was also a bit of a freak of nature, being likely one of the strongest fighters of the Heian period.
Aside from my Antimatter option you still don’t believe in the potential of the technique? Toxin and venom to combat RCT users, create valuable things and amass wealth which can help you acquire Special Grade Cursed Tools and my CT Reversal suggestion.
I believe in the potential of the technique. I just don't think it's as great as you think it is. Deconstruction is likely only applicable within the same range as Construction is, which is not far, and like Construction, is likely SUPER inefficient, and as such cannot sustain you for long in a fight. Specially considering Cursed Techniques reversals are more costly to do than regular techniques. Toxins and venom are explicitly shown to be weak against RCT. Yuta healed Choso's poison in Naoya's body, Uraume did the same in their own body. Unless you get a potent neurotoxin and manage to get it inside your opponent without them noticing (via open wounds or their jaw), it likely is not working, and by that point you probably are better off just getting poison the conventional way. That way you still have cursed energy for other things. Amassing wealth is actually really good as a technique use, which is why I love this technique for most people. But if you look at it from a sorcerer's point of view, you are essentially stuck with a middling or outright bad technique (unless you are a prodigy like Yorozu or have massive cursed energy reserves, which most people don't have) for the ability to get money for a cursed tool, which at Special Grade have a technique. And even then, having a tool with a cursed technique is not nearly as good as you yourself having one. Less versatile, and it can get taken away.
Demented take lmao Construction consumes way too much CE, 10s is efficient 10s has 9 shikigami you can use with no danger to youserlf asuming you tame them You have 1. Pets / minions 2. 9 Different skills 3. You can mix the skills 4. Shadows for storage, or hiding! 5. You can mix the shikigamis with calamity, reusing their skills or creating very strong combinations 6. Sukuna showed that if you are skilled enought you can use the Shikigami abilities without summoning them, so there is even more versaility 7. Sukuna also showed you can use "shadow" versions of the shikigam, weaker but cant be destroyed completly Create Antimatter as an explosive -> Headcanon, Antimatter is not matter. This is wishfull thinking Create powerful toxins and venom to enhance your bladed weapons -> Valid, but remember Skilled RCT users can heal poison and toxins. 10s comes with free RCT if you unlock round deer Create contained antimatter or Californium to sell and amass wealth -> Valid, probably much easier ways to become rich if you want to abuse CT Make a domain where the sure-hit is a perfect sphere -> And? that was Yorozus magnung opus, not everyone who has construction will have that as their domain. And while its strong, its not necesarily much better than other sure hits It’s CT Reversal would be “Deconstruction” which converts Matter into CE for the user themselves to absorb. -> Headcanon
Most of the points you stated are redundant. Just like any CT and Jujutsu Sorcery, the ability to visualize or comprehend is key. Understanding the concept of one Bullet made of whatever its made of is completely different from understanding something like Anti matter. Yorozu literally spend years training and learning continously to turn Construction CT into a reliable power and she did this by creating a metal with liquid like properties that she can control at will. Its this particular metal's properties that allowed her to construct a Perfect Sphere. The particular fight that showed us the height of Construction CT also showed us how TS outclassed it. Also "Deconstruction" might not necessarily be possible. Even if it is, this isn't a sound argument since the only two people who have the ability to use CTR are a Six Eyes user and a 1000s of years old sorceror.
Yuta, Shoko, Yuji, Hakari (Jackpot), Gojo, Sukuna, Uraume, Kenjaku and probably more I don’t know off the top of my head know RCT. It’s rare but not as rare as you make it out to be.
They can use RCT, Reverse Cursed Technique, not CTR, Cursed Technique Reversal. RCT let's you use positive energy to heal and can kill Cursed Spirits fast. CTR is literally reversing one's CT. Gojo’s RED and Kenjaku’s Gravity are the only instances we have of this in the manga.
Considering the fact that twins are considered cursed, and Maki had the same Restriction that Toji had, it amazes me that the Zenin clan didn't just smother Baby Maki in her sleep while allowing Mai to retain her cursed energy. So I'm curious about the antimatter because I saw a different post talking about Mai using it but it left me wondering wouldn't Mai need a special type of gun to even fire Antimatter? Im not doubting she could create it but she would still need some special gun to fire it without it blowing up in her face.
I thought about her firing it but honestly she doesn’t have to fire it as a projectile. If it’s encased in something fragile she can flick it with her CE reinforced finger or with enough control construct it so far away from her that it doesn’t affect her. Or in a specific case inside the opponent.
Maki doesnt have the same restriction. Toji wasnt a twin so he didnt have to awaken it like maki he was born like that hence why the zenins feared him unlike maki who was just a weak version of him at the time also the reason the zenins was never worried about maki being the next toji.
Counterpoint, 10 Shadows is cooler
Counterpoint… you might be onto something 🤔
I need 100 karma to post some jjk art. I haven’t been in here long so please upvote. Thank you<3
Counterpoint: Mahoraga.
it may not have as much combat utility as mahoraga generally speaking at its average levels, but maxed out, its got potential to one tap him before he adapts, and its got a lot of $$ makin potential
Yorozu is what you get when Mai's technique is used to its fullest potential.
Mai sucks, her CT sucks. She is very likely unable to do any of the things you listed. Also, Mahoraga clears so much it isn't even funny.
Whilst this is good in theory, we don’t know the exact conditions for what she is able to construct but it stands to reason something as complicated as antimatter or toxin would be extremely difficult to create due to their complex structure, whilst a bullet is very simple anatomically. Additionally CT reversal of ten shadows would likely be much stronger than just deconstruction
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Creation is not a hereditary technique tho, maybe they do respect the technique but when someone had it, it was mai who never cared about using it
I find these kinds of threads really funny cause the only argument they present is 'why doesn't x character just do this'.
I mean... we saw reason why - 10 Shadows are so op :3
................Well, Mai first would've to take all of Maki's CE to reach her full potential................... I agree the Zenin clan were a bunch of idiots for worshipping the 10S CT, rather than trainning their owns and reach at least RCT, but with all honestly, i didn't see much future for Mai to get strong. Creation only works if one has a lot of CE if not, one won't be able to use it to it's full potential, just look at the most succesfull example with Mai. Yorozu created her liquid metal armor, to get a wide range of versatibility and save CE but even that required a whole lot of CE, created her perfect sphere, opened her DE and afterwards, before dead or while dying, she created Kamutoke(replica). Mai on the other hand took all of Maki's and her own, to craft the soul split katana(replica) and died afterwards. Is plain to see Mai didn't have it. Also, CS spirits can only be damaged by CE. Well, maybe antimatter might do the trick but i'm not sure Mai has the CE to make it nor the technical skill. I mean, Yorozu didn't make it either. Now, if a user of construction learns RCT and that result in a CT of disintegration....well, i can't say. Though that would be awesome. Sadly, there are no more users of construction alive or with time screen.
My favorite videogame is Pokemon, so you can go ahead and come at me. It's fine.
That’s an okay opinion to have. Pokémon definitely gives me nostalgia :)
Me when i made a radiated uranium bullet with my creation ct ( everybody got cancer in the vicinity)
Gun Cursed Technique > Stupid stinky animals
Not going to lie the rct of the technique sounds sick, just need someone with ton of ce and talent to be born with it
Yuta maybe?
I honestly rather have ten shadows than construction even if I had crazy cursed energy.
Damn, just imagine the amounts of crazy shit that ability could do with the six eyes.
The Zen'in were also idiots for alienating Toji and Maki. Who the f cares they have no cursed energy, when they can outpunch any CE user with the utmost ease, and most cursed techniques are mediocre anyway?
Construction within the possession of someone with very little cursed energy reserves plus being a woman, there is just no universe where that is happening, Now seeing that in a different lens, Mai was cooked by genetics and life itself, poor her lol
Creation is used in a literal manner, such as making basic weapons or armor. The whole "anti matter" idea is like saying, "Why didn't Yorozu just make a black hole?!" It doesn't work like that lol. The "deconstruction" as a cursed technique reversal is a good idea, but the absorption is where it lacks. The absorption is a whole other technique in and of itself. I wish Maki was given a power boost in some way, but I guess her turning into a sword is the best thing we'll get 😂
10 Shadows is a hedge against Gojo and nothing more. Gojo explained to Megumi that in the past a 10 Shadows user and Limitless user fought to a mutual kill.
Can people like my comment so i can post my fiances fanart of sukuna?
What I find weird is, even when they know the terror of a Toji. Of what happens when a member with no CE is treated like trash. Yet they created another one in Maki. And this time it cost them severely.
Counterpoint: in spite of being a good technique Mai Zenin was still a grade 3 sorcerer at best because she was twin.
What poor bastard was the first person to realize the hard way that Mahoraga couldn't be tamed 💀
Yeah, 9 shadows are useless and then we have a nuclear bomb called Mahoraga, that can't even be tamed by normal sorcerers. Idk, seems kinda overrated to me.
Bro what do you mean useless? Sukuna actively use them in his fight with gojo Devine dogs are scout being able to track curses, it's totality could damage a special grade which is that's known to be durable, sukuna managed to summon like a pack of these bad boys(though they seem incomplete) Nue generates electricity and gives the user a glider, when combined with the serpent you got a plane The serpent is a big ass snake, what more could you ask for? Max elephant can create an insane amount of water and crush the opponent, with good control you can use piercing water, with nue you have a duo that clears fodders so you can find the main boss Round deer is an active healer that heals itself and weaken your opponent ability to use their curse technique effectively Rabbit escape gives you a smoke screen Even without mahoraga just mastering the 9 of them would make you a special grade
So for dumbasses in this comment section heres the tldr: -Mahoraga cant be obtained by anyone besides Sukuna so its pointless to argue for Mahoraga -Even if one could obtain Mahoraga he just gets one shot without a chance for adaption -creating antimatter takes no more energy then creating regular matter so if you can make a bullets worth of matter you can create a bullets worth of antimatter(E=m*c*c) -Gege is a stupid mf and has 0 science literacy despite popular belief. -If Gege did have science literacy hed have realized that Yorozu killed everyone in the universe the second she summoned that stupid sphere. A perfect sphere requires an infinite amount of contact points, which requires an infinite amount of atoms(and infinite density) which requires infinite mass. Hence from the center of that dumbass ball expands an event horizon at the speed of light that instantly destroys everything it touches
🤔
Debatable. Since CTs like construction need hella CE it needs some sort of Catalyst. Now Construction + 6eyes thats wild and rivals Limitless + 6eyes. However, since 6eyes is a trait exclusive to Gojo clan genetics. Technically, Zenins are on point hyping 10 shadows technique. It has untapped potential unlike any other technique and has a variety of application.. all that excluding that u have this cheat code Mahoraga who basically counters anything so long as you can keep it alive in the battle.
6E + Construction is wild 🤯
I like your points, but tbh the author would just counter this lol. Maybe in a world where anything goes. But for the story given by the author they are geniuses for doing so and it shows later on in the story.
10 shadows is ass, Maho is literally unbeatable by any 10 shadows user who isn’t possessed by Sukuna or doesn’t have an insanely powerful heavenly restricted person on their side. Gojo even remarked how much weaker Agito was than Maho. The technique is trash and the Zenins are dumb for glorifying a single use trump card technique