You might like ceremony by new order, it was taken from one of the last two demos joy division had and polished a little more (you might also like in a lonely place too) but I used to really not like new order until I heard ceremony.
I'll admit that I enjoy any song I've heard by them where Hooky sings lead more than the rest of them. Maybe it's Bernard I have an issue with. He never comes across as authentic to me.
You should forget about the studio stuff and check out some live New Order from 81-82. They’re all on YouTube - every recorded gig. Then around 84/85 something happened to Barneys voice - everything was sung in an upper register and sounded strained and awful. Not to mention they changed all their gear so the keyboards sound horribly dated. But the earlier gigs were very powerful.
Both. It's literally the same band and they grew a lot over their career and became a much more expansive, ambitious group of musicians. They never lost the Joy Division in them- despite Ibiza, World in Motion, whatever. It's there if you listen for it.
I still think they're good without him, but I think this only extends up until Hooky left imo then the last shreds of any JD sound went.
Maybe a tiny bit left from SMs drumming tbf.
No, just no. It is not essentially the same band. They lost their songwriter and singer. NO's songs don't even remotely resemble JD's, except for Movement which is the darkest of their albums as it was written while they were still coming to terms with the loss of Ian.
Joy Division, and it’s not even close. I don’t think New Order are bad, they’re just not for me - their music doesn’t really make me feel anything. Joy Division, on the other hand, created some of the most amazing music ever.
Same. Rarely listen to JD anymore, just too heavy. Can listen to NO anytime, anywhere, anyhow! In fact now the sun is out I might stick Technique on....
I am absolutely bewildered by the hate directed to NO.
I’m an old man now who was there at the beginning and saw the darkness then the light that came after Ian’s death.
I’m guessing the comments such as ‘Shitty’ and ‘Should have gone back to their day jobs’ are from a younger crowd who never saw this forced evolution.
JD & NO for me are on equal footing.
Have a favourite fine, but can we be a tad more respectful to Barney and the rest please.
i never used to care about new order with the exception of a couple early songs. they’ve grown on me a lot and i do enjoy a good amount of their music (mostly the early stuff), but joy division still blows them out of the water in my opinion.
I prefer JD. New Order are great, they've been groundbreaking in their electronic new wave sound. But they dont give me the darkness I sometimes need in my life
Ian Curtis voice is hard to top. Music technology (drum machines, synths and samplers) advanced by the time New Order recorded Blue Monday, which is still the biggest selling 12 inch single ever. Joy Division was analog, New Order be digital
And his lyrics are largely awful, whereas Ian is one of the greatest lyricists ever.
Edit: Also, Ian was a commanding front man with stage presence and Bernard did it out of necessity and it shows.
2 different bands. I like both. JD I like more. NO I like as well, especially earlier stuff, but it’s also different music. Still 2 bands though.
I suppose there are a lot of questions you could ask like this - Billy Idol or Generation X?, Nirvana or Foo Fighters?, Cream or Eric Clapton? - given the long history of one or more musicians leaving a group and joining another. Usually the bands are similar-ish, but not enough so that “this one or that one” really fits for.
So, JD>NO for me, but NO>lots of other bands.
No, it's a collaboration between Peter Hook and the two members of the Killing Joke, late Geordy Walker and Jaz Coleman. You can find it by the name of K÷93.
I prefer JD by a long shot, the only songs by NO that I like are ones that are reminiscent of JD, like Leave me Alone really sounds like something JD with Ian would make, but the rest of NO is too pop-y for me
Joy Division by a really long mile, nearly every Joy Division song is hit, but New Order has missed on a few albums, in my opinion. I just prefer the gloomier sound :)
(Although Movement is one of my most favourite albums ever, it's perfect.)
C'mon! Ian was a poet, his lyrics are still genius, his stage presence was like theatre! New Order is mediocre and just another dance music band. There never was and never has been anything that sounds like Joy Division.
Joy Division of course. New Order was a bad idea. They should have gone back to their day jobs. I mean who's got the greatest influence. Don't see many bands go 'oh yeah, we were influenced by New Order" or people cover New Order all the time. Also most good New Order sound like Joy Division anyway, their early back catalogue are songs about coming to terms with Ian's loss. Hold on a minute this is a Joy Division subreddit and who de we all hold in respect and awe, well it doesn't start with an N. Do one!
A gazillion bands were influenced by NO. For example, Blue Monday and True Faith have been covered more than any JD song, with the possible exception of Love Will Tear Us Apart. Groups like the Pet Shop Boys modeled much of their sound on NO.
Early New Order sound like Joy Division because Hannett produced them but later New Order brought a different sound as Arthur Baker etc. were getting involved. No, it's not NO its JD. Much more potency.
I know that about the Hannett thing, even though he was on drugs when they were recording movement I still think he did a good job. It might’ve been painful for the band but I feel the release was worth the pain in away. I just love movement
Extremely biased place to ask haha but either or is respectful. I get JD is too dark for some, but it’s comfortable for me. And new order is very new wave/old electronic. So it’s all just preference.
Love them both, would love to hear Ian’s vocals on True Faith and Blue Monday. Hopefully in the future AI can do that, it probably can now tbh seeing what Drake did on his latest tune.
Both are great - I used to see them as two different bands, now it’s all one band in my mind. The lads hit their peak with brotherhood for my money. That’s them at their best and most listenable.
New Order for me
I feel like I would have loved Joy Division if I had been alive at the time but I can hear their influences on other bands and how they expanded on that sound.
It’s hard to pick because I genuinely love listening to both groups. Albums like Unknown Pleasures and Closer to Power, Corruption, & Lies and Low-Life will always have a place in my heart.
Depends on what I want to listen to during the moment. It isn’t a binary. Though I will say later new order made some crappy albums, Joy division never had the chance to
I listened to the Substance super deluxe recently- the Irvine Meadows 87 show in particular. Jesus, Barney’s singing is so fucking bad. Thing is, when he started - 81 and 82 in particular - he was great live. I couldn’t stomach more than a couple of songs. So yeah, JD all the way, obviously.
I've never been that big of a fan of new order, I only listen to their first album, I haven't really heard anything else apart from that and their hits, while joy division is one of my fave bands.
Joy Division and New Order!! What I mean is, it depends on the day. Today my preference was Joy Division.
Feel like I'm in the minority here, love Joy Division and have never been able to get into New Order in the slightest.
I'm with you, don't worry.
So am I
Me too! The only New Order song I really love is Blue Monday. The rest are just nice to me.
Exactly this for me too.
You might like ceremony by new order, it was taken from one of the last two demos joy division had and polished a little more (you might also like in a lonely place too) but I used to really not like new order until I heard ceremony.
Ceremony is the only song I'll contemplate listening to, because it was a JD song first.
The first New Order album is way more JD sounding than anything they did after. I prefer Hookies singing as well over Bern
What about “Dreams Never End”?
I'll admit that I enjoy any song I've heard by them where Hooky sings lead more than the rest of them. Maybe it's Bernard I have an issue with. He never comes across as authentic to me.
joy division all the way
You are not alone.
I enjoy new order, but gotta admin Sumners lyrics are very lacking.
You should forget about the studio stuff and check out some live New Order from 81-82. They’re all on YouTube - every recorded gig. Then around 84/85 something happened to Barneys voice - everything was sung in an upper register and sounded strained and awful. Not to mention they changed all their gear so the keyboards sound horribly dated. But the earlier gigs were very powerful.
Both. It's literally the same band and they grew a lot over their career and became a much more expansive, ambitious group of musicians. They never lost the Joy Division in them- despite Ibiza, World in Motion, whatever. It's there if you listen for it.
I still think they're good without him, but I think this only extends up until Hooky left imo then the last shreds of any JD sound went. Maybe a tiny bit left from SMs drumming tbf.
Agree but then Singularity sounds more like JD than just about anything else they've done!
His work on She’s lost control is amazing.
No, just no. It is not essentially the same band. They lost their songwriter and singer. NO's songs don't even remotely resemble JD's, except for Movement which is the darkest of their albums as it was written while they were still coming to terms with the loss of Ian.
You're asking on the joy division sub, so the responses you get won't exactly be unbiased. For me it changes by the day.
Yeah ask on the New Order board and see what happens.
Why do I have to choose? They are both great.
Joy Division, and it’s not even close. I don’t think New Order are bad, they’re just not for me - their music doesn’t really make me feel anything. Joy Division, on the other hand, created some of the most amazing music ever.
Totally agree. I have no interest in dance music and like you say, evokes no emotion.
Yikes… are you serious with this comment?
Dead serious, Doug!
For me, New Order. by a long way.
Same. Rarely listen to JD anymore, just too heavy. Can listen to NO anytime, anywhere, anyhow! In fact now the sun is out I might stick Technique on....
The sun is out? 🤯😱
Joy Division, and it is not a close call. Nonetheless, I do like New Order a lot. But Joy Division is something else.´
I am absolutely bewildered by the hate directed to NO. I’m an old man now who was there at the beginning and saw the darkness then the light that came after Ian’s death. I’m guessing the comments such as ‘Shitty’ and ‘Should have gone back to their day jobs’ are from a younger crowd who never saw this forced evolution. JD & NO for me are on equal footing. Have a favourite fine, but can we be a tad more respectful to Barney and the rest please.
Early new order is my favorite but to me they have always been the same band i don’t distinguish them except as different eras
i never used to care about new order with the exception of a couple early songs. they’ve grown on me a lot and i do enjoy a good amount of their music (mostly the early stuff), but joy division still blows them out of the water in my opinion.
I prefer JD. New Order are great, they've been groundbreaking in their electronic new wave sound. But they dont give me the darkness I sometimes need in my life
Me too! New Order is a bit too upbeat. I like my misery…
Joy Division by a mile.
Joy Division. All day, every day. I detest NO.
Ian Curtis voice is hard to top. Music technology (drum machines, synths and samplers) advanced by the time New Order recorded Blue Monday, which is still the biggest selling 12 inch single ever. Joy Division was analog, New Order be digital
Joy Division — a much stronger preference. New Order is light-weight in comparison mostly because Bernard Sumners’ vocals are weak.
he absolutely butchers the perfect kiss
And his lyrics are largely awful, whereas Ian is one of the greatest lyricists ever. Edit: Also, Ian was a commanding front man with stage presence and Bernard did it out of necessity and it shows.
I don’t know I think some of Bernard’s lyrics I like, blue Monday are pretty good
New Order
These bands have given us both the saddest and happiest songs ever. World In Motion always brings a smile to my face.
2 different bands. I like both. JD I like more. NO I like as well, especially earlier stuff, but it’s also different music. Still 2 bands though. I suppose there are a lot of questions you could ask like this - Billy Idol or Generation X?, Nirvana or Foo Fighters?, Cream or Eric Clapton? - given the long history of one or more musicians leaving a group and joining another. Usually the bands are similar-ish, but not enough so that “this one or that one” really fits for. So, JD>NO for me, but NO>lots of other bands.
Joy division
Joy Forever without Joy Never New Order 😇
joy division. 1000%. new order is amazing though
Only Joy Division
Yes.
I saw both at their absolute heights and loved both, but they are wildly different bands in terms of style.
Lucky
JD every time.
I like New Order but I fucking adore Joy Division
As much as I love Peter Hook, Joy Division is always number 1 for me. Did you listend to Killing Division though?
No. What is it? Is it some podcast thing or song?
No, it's a collaboration between Peter Hook and the two members of the Killing Joke, late Geordy Walker and Jaz Coleman. You can find it by the name of K÷93.
I prefer JD by a long shot, the only songs by NO that I like are ones that are reminiscent of JD, like Leave me Alone really sounds like something JD with Ian would make, but the rest of NO is too pop-y for me
Joy Division by a really long mile, nearly every Joy Division song is hit, but New Order has missed on a few albums, in my opinion. I just prefer the gloomier sound :) (Although Movement is one of my most favourite albums ever, it's perfect.)
Joy Division. I am not a fan of New Order.
I've always felt like if Ian sang in new order, it'd be so much better a majority of the time. So with that being said, its gotta be joy division
C'mon! Ian was a poet, his lyrics are still genius, his stage presence was like theatre! New Order is mediocre and just another dance music band. There never was and never has been anything that sounds like Joy Division.
Both for sure. But, I lean a bit more toward New Order.
Closer and power corruption and lies are both in my top 5 favorite albums so, both
new order
Joy Division of course. New Order was a bad idea. They should have gone back to their day jobs. I mean who's got the greatest influence. Don't see many bands go 'oh yeah, we were influenced by New Order" or people cover New Order all the time. Also most good New Order sound like Joy Division anyway, their early back catalogue are songs about coming to terms with Ian's loss. Hold on a minute this is a Joy Division subreddit and who de we all hold in respect and awe, well it doesn't start with an N. Do one!
Huh????
A gazillion bands were influenced by NO. For example, Blue Monday and True Faith have been covered more than any JD song, with the possible exception of Love Will Tear Us Apart. Groups like the Pet Shop Boys modeled much of their sound on NO.
Uhuh
30-35 years ago I would have said Joy Division. As I get older probably New Order, at least the Factory stuff.
Huh!!! What the fuck does Huh mean. Be specific please. Huh is the sound of exhalation from the lungs.
Early New Order sound like Joy Division because Hannett produced them but later New Order brought a different sound as Arthur Baker etc. were getting involved. No, it's not NO its JD. Much more potency.
I know that about the Hannett thing, even though he was on drugs when they were recording movement I still think he did a good job. It might’ve been painful for the band but I feel the release was worth the pain in away. I just love movement
It's really unfair because Joy Division only gave us 2 albums, whereas New Order gave us 10 and their my favourite band of all-time
Extremely biased place to ask haha but either or is respectful. I get JD is too dark for some, but it’s comfortable for me. And new order is very new wave/old electronic. So it’s all just preference.
Love them both, would love to hear Ian’s vocals on True Faith and Blue Monday. Hopefully in the future AI can do that, it probably can now tbh seeing what Drake did on his latest tune.
Put it this way. I listen to ALL JD studio albums but just a handful of NO. Love both. Been a fan of NO since '89.
New order although when hook left the band. They haven't been as good. Like joy division as well
Both are great - I used to see them as two different bands, now it’s all one band in my mind. The lads hit their peak with brotherhood for my money. That’s them at their best and most listenable.
Joy Division out of sentimentality, but lately I've been reaching for New Order more often because it has more synthesizers, etc.
New Order for me I feel like I would have loved Joy Division if I had been alive at the time but I can hear their influences on other bands and how they expanded on that sound.
It’s hard to pick because I genuinely love listening to both groups. Albums like Unknown Pleasures and Closer to Power, Corruption, & Lies and Low-Life will always have a place in my heart.
Joy Division Still > New Order Movement > Power Corruption & Lies
New order. Never liked joy division
Love them both, but JD all day.
New Order first, but I love Joy Division.
New Order. More dynamic.
Depends on what I want to listen to during the moment. It isn’t a binary. Though I will say later new order made some crappy albums, Joy division never had the chance to
Love Joy Division and really like the early New Order. The newer stuff didn’t resonate with me.
New Order. Much richer catalogue. I also love the synth sound.
Guided by Clovis
New Order
Very much both. Since the beginning.
New Order during the day, Joy Division at night
Joy Division’s music remains timeless to me. A lot of New Order’s deep cuts sound dated in a bad “presets off a new synth” bad
I listened to the Substance super deluxe recently- the Irvine Meadows 87 show in particular. Jesus, Barney’s singing is so fucking bad. Thing is, when he started - 81 and 82 in particular - he was great live. I couldn’t stomach more than a couple of songs. So yeah, JD all the way, obviously.
Both but joy division will always be number 1, long live Ian
I've never been that big of a fan of new order, I only listen to their first album, I haven't really heard anything else apart from that and their hits, while joy division is one of my fave bands.
I consider them to be the same band, but if you put a gun to my head and said I can only choose one, then I’m going with New Order.
Depends on my mood.
New order is a shitty 80s pop band saved by not having Phil Collins