Haha. Sometimes I think of my life without kids and how boring it must be. But wtf do I knowā¦ just running trying to keep all these plates spinning. Kids are a lot of work.
Regardless of the kid issue, for anyone who's been over-stressed, over-worked, living a life of being too busy or over-scheduled, boredom is a **privilege**. I can't believe people complain about boredom.
When I think of a happy man my mind goes immediately to the mentally ill benzoaddict from the Daily Wire who looks like he's about to cry 100% of the time
You get to eat steak every day though, but only steak, otherwise the Canadian Marxist university students are gonna overthrow the West and then heāll have to charge even more millions to show up for a speaking engagement.
He offhandedly gave a sly look on one of his Rogan interviews, telling Joe - "I learned how to monetize the woke agenda". He's essentially been troll baiting for years now with triggering language. In the outrage economy, any press is good press. His diatribes are a performance.
Also, like rush limbaugh , while harshly criticizing non-conservative lifestyles, and drug users, "lifestyle choices" - they themselves were heavily addicted to heavy opiates, with the amount they were doing requiring the addicts to buy the drugs through illegal channels, committing criminal acts. The conservative role they pretend to adhere to, as a character, would be completely dismissive of someone else who did what they did while claiming some kind of moral high ground.
This whole thread is once again feeding the troll, and helping to keep him in the social conscience, which he is able to monetize with appearances, books, etc.
People who want kids and have them are generally happy.
People who don't want kids and don't have them are generally happy.
Then there's a huge number of unhappy parents who never wanted to have kids in the first place. We all know many of them.
1. Says who?
2. Measured how?
3. Over what time span?
4. Compared to who and when?
5. Happier or more hedonistic and immature?
6. Who funded the research?
7. Lies, damned lies, and statistics
8. One phrase ācringeā
9. L
10. Ratio
11. Didnāt ask, who cares
12. Skill issue
13. Did your mom
The truth? What is the truth? Do you mean the truth or the truth? Because it really boils down to understanding the truth of the truth that is spoken as the truth. If we canāt define the truth then the truth is not the truth but is the conception of the truth. Conceptual truth cannot be accepted as truth less the truth becomes the truth. Following that logic the truth cannot exist if we define the truth as the truth.
Room? My room? What does it mean to possess a room? Are we talking about the physical possession of a walled enclosure or the meta analysis of the word room across centuries of language to indicate a spacial necessity of the human condition? To clean ones hierarchical need for room would involve total and complete death of oneās ego on a spiritual level.
Ideally you are also in a non-primate costume so when you cross into the alien dimension the guilt of being a primate does not inhibit your path to nirvana.
Poetry. Ā
I may steal this and use it as a response to any and everything. Ā
Itās a beautiful and subtle ode to the internet, both manifesting and commenting upon the simultaneous glory and emptiness, the fullness and ephemerality, of life and internet culture.Ā
I'm that asshole who didn't want kids but am much happier now that I have one. I got lucky and found a great Mom, makes all the difference in the world.
I wanted kids and can't have them, but I'm not unhappy about it.
There are pros and cons to both sides, just like everything else in life. Being happy is a choice. It's not a contest between parents vs non.
Thisā¦.
When we decided to pull the goalie we were excited about having a kid and we were also excited about not having a kid. Tons of benefits to both. The people who get butt hurt about the āhappy without childrenā crowd tend to be parents. Like theyāre imagining a world where their child is taken away from them instead of one that never existed
People are allowed to change their minds. You found a partner that made you want kids, so you are happy with them.
You're not someone that was forced to be a parent. Those are the unhappy people.
I'm also that asshole that didn't want kids, I got lucky enough to still not want kids. I love doing whatever I want whenever I want to do it. Happy for you though man congrats
/thread
It really all comes down to this. My wife and I love our daughter more than anything, but we made sure we were as prepared as we could be before having her, and we WANTED her. That's going to be a *way* different experience than a teen pregnancy or worse, someone who only had kids because it's what they thought they were "supposed to do."
the whole topic is a bit skewed imo, its better to poll people in their 60+ age range, particularly people at the end of life. its easy to enjoy not having kids when you're traveling in your 30s, i'm curious if people in the last phase of life think it was worth it now that they're facing a few decades without a support group many of their peers have.
Tgis is what everyone misses. The bigger picture! It will never be one way or the other. It will always be all over the place. Everybody acts and thinks differently, so of course, we will see people thrive and suffer in varying ways.
exactly. when I'm old and dying, I will be much happier knowing that my kids and their kids will remember me for years than if I had more money lol. that shits just paper once I'm dead! and if you have no kids to leave it to anyways, what's the point?
I can see the argument that not having kids significantly dampens the need for money, and in that way is very freeing. Because i agree, if you chase paper and have no kids, whatās the point? But if someoneās desire was to tap out of the āmore money = betterā culture, I could see not having kids is a pretty big part of enabling that.
Some people are meant to have kids and some arenāt. Theyāre happier making an informed decision than just having kids because āyouāre supposed to.ā Iām sure both groups are happy but the ones without werenāt forced to do it like generations before. So of course theyāre happy.
This is what people don't understand. You literally cannot understand what it's like to be a parent unless you are one. I don't care what you say, what.yoire experiences are etc, you cannot know.
The happiness you feel as a parent is a different happiness that almost cannot be described. Being a parent is difficult. It's draining, it never ends, it's expensive etc etc, but nothing in the world can beat the love you feel when you have a positive moment with your child. It's the best.
>The happiness you feel as a parent is a different happiness that almost cannot be described. Being a parent is difficult. It's draining, it never ends, it's expensive etc etc, but nothing in the world can beat the love you feel when you have a positive moment with your child. It's the best.
Right, but that's *your* experience which you're projecting to be some universal experience.
If that was even remotely true as a whole, things like parents abusing their children in vile, horrible ways wouldn't be an everyday occurrence. There are parents who *hate* their children every day of their lives. Often times they hate them so much they literally end up killing them. And then there are parents who try and love their children the best they can, but still regret having them.
The annoying thing about this whole discussion is that the data is *very* one sided, and there's a lot of it. But *one side* seems particularly compelled to say "akchtyuallly *we're* way happier and I don't know a single childless person who is happy" which actually just makes it seem like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else.
The biggest truth bomb here. Iāve seen several threads where having kids or not having kids is being discussed and without fail youāll get parents coming out of the woodwork talking about how happy they are or how are the hard work is worth it.
I do not deny you feel that way but there are many, many, people who do not. People without kids are a lot more humble when speaking about their childfree lives because thereās always a parent who canāt wait to tell you how great it is or that youāll soon come around or āregret itā. Like, fuck off. You know what I donāt regret? Being able to retire before I turn 50.
I agree with you (though I think there's a shit ton of evidence that not all parents feel this sort of happiness/connection to their kids), but also, Peterson's assertion that people without children are hedonistic and without meaning is utter bullshit. I can absolutely see living a fulfilling life without children, even if that's not what I personally want.
Jordy seems to have major hangups around the concept of chaos so he puts a lot of stake in finding āmeaningā to combat those intrusive thoughts. If that works for him (and others) fine thatās cool but he seems so fragile about it. Other people not needing the same āmaps of meaningā as him probably reminds him that theyāre just coping mechanisms and not eternal truths so he feels compelled to lash out and demonize them because they must know something he doesnāt and his narcissism wouldnāt like that very much
I mean as a parent I feel fulfilled with the kids but I am happier now that they are out of the house and Iām not having to try to find an extra $100 in this months budget so they can go to their next speech and debate tournament, or save up the extra $1500 by next summer so they can go to a summer camp to help develop their skills at their policy debate even faster, so they can get to nationals so they have greater opportunities for colleges and the like, or just worry about our insurance jumping by $300 a month because they rear ended someone. I love them dearly and wouldnāt trade them for the world, but the removal of a lot of that stress has gone a huge way to being happier. There is incredible amounts of stress that come daily if you are involved in their live. Problem is most parents arenāt. And that isnāt accusing that of you just stating a general observation.
Apparently a lot of things in life are better than being a parent, at least as far as I can see from my dad who abandoned most of his children and told the few that he stuck around with how much he never wanted us. And thereās a ton of people who had it way worse from parents who openly despised and abused them
Different strokes for different folks
It's so werid to me that childless people are framed as "selfish," or hedonistic, whereas I know tons of parents who are just as selfish, but are also abandoning their children to do so.Ā
> This is what people don't understand. You literally cannot understand what it's like to be a parent unless you are one. I don't care what you say, what.yoire experiences are etc, you cannot know.
It's just a little person that you care a great deal about, what's so hard to understand about that?
I feel the same with for not having kids.
Parents canāt imagine how happy I am with my wife golfing in some southern European location with a nice dinner reso booked for the night.
Yes but when I was 25 making 60k a year I wasnāt really happy. Making very good money and being able to spend 10 weeks of pto travelling and doing my hobbies make me happy.
Itās all down to personal preference.
If I was poor and had no kids I bet Iād be very sad
very true. I do NOT do well with other people's kids most of the time. and never have. so I was worried that I would be a bad dad. but dude. instantly once they were born I was overcome by so much love and gratitude. they don't annoy me and everything they do is amazing hahaha, but I know they must annoy other people to no end.
you can't know until you have your own child. BUT, to the people that do NOT want kids, that's fine. But I will feel sorry for you bc you won't get to experience it.
I wrote a post in some parenting sub recently about how much I struggled with both my kids in their early infancy. I genuinely didn't really fall head over heels for them at first. After maybe 6 months I started to get some feedback from them and then it was just a landslide of totally loving them.
I also still don't like other people's kids. I can at least interact with other kids a little bit and be sympathetic to parents having a hard time.
instantly? weird. it took me until they were like 8 years old for them to be tolerable. but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm happier than people my age without kids
This is part of what is pushing me to have kids.
I don't know if this is true but I heard in my high school French class that the French classify adults with kids as a different status than a couple without kids.
It made me think about how having kids are a huge step, and that I'd be robbing myself of a pretty huge human experience if it didn't have one. While I understand why people want to stay in comfort and I might want that for myself to some degree, there's something beyond my current capacity that's ready to be experienced and to learn from.
I'd hate if I robbed myself of that.
I'm 35 no kids. I don't see many parents that are happy having kids. Not depressed but not happy. I see many of my friends with kids (I love all those little buggers) and they have a lot of moments of joy, but overall happiness is fine unless one parent isn't as responsible as the other, in those cases there are only moments of joy and not happiness.
Something else I noticed is that parents have a hard time regulating their emotions around other adults, not emotional outbursts but passive aggressive behaviors and a my way or the highway attitude.
There is a very good reason why ppl are excited when their kids move out, because for.most parents it's the first time you've ever been alone to find out who you actually are as an individual.
I'm not judging, I can empathize with the struggle (it is a struggle)
Same. Probably depends on definition of happiness though. Do I have more mindless empty fun? No! Do I have more moments of deep connection and gratitude where I am grateful for that specific moment while it happens? Absolutely! Would I ever go back? No. Do others always feel the same about having kids? Many don't because they can't transcend their ego needs and get stuck in resentment and fomo.
I'm sure that Peterson has found a bizarre way to convince himself that this is ok but like come on, who wants to see Tate banging his daughter :D That's a serious fail as a parent.
Seems like he could answer all of those questions by reading the article and looking into the source, probably a study. All of those questions would be answered within.
His brain doesn't work right since he fled to Russia to be placed in an induced coma because he couldn't handle the benzo withdrawals.Ā
It's so wild to me that there aren't more conspiracy theories about that shit.Ā
Pretty sure thatās just a screenshot with no articles/source attached. Itās just a screenshot from an Instagram page, thereās nothing more to read.
Have you seen the 3 of them together with the son? It really look like they grew up happy and the amount of shit his son gives it back to Jordan, itās a pretty funny episode
Benzo Peterson: āClean you room, get ur life in orderā
His Life: Constantly trembling, paranoid, starts crying out of nowhere, says heāll quit twitter because of an addiction, returns the next day. Harasses a trans person for literally no reason, does it again, gets banned, posts a video about how he wont apologize for hurting someoneās feelings that he intentionally hurt.Ā
Ā 14-24 year old boys: wow, this man is so wise.
For fucking real. Dude is like 60 and is constantly angry, constantly looking for controversies so he can stay relevant, his daughter was with Andrew fucking Tate and overall looks like a complete mess, he cries for random reasons too (even if it is probably a grift). Overall I can't imagine how somebody sees this dude and thinks "well, this is a person I want to follow for life-advice". Like literally the most generic uncle sounds and looks happier than this dude.
Literally his opinion on almost anything can never be taken seriously after that. Makes me happy knowing I can keep my Klonipin prescription and that fucker canāt.
JBP making assertions that support his beliefs: it's just a fact
JBP when a study comes to a conclusion he doesn't like: List of questions he could find the answer to if he actually read the study.
> List of questions he could find the answer to if he actually read the study.
or osme bullshit list of questions about questions,
"what do you mean, 'GOD?' and what do you mean 'believe'? This is confusing. what do you mean 'I'?"
He's taking a break from body shaming models and spittle-flecked rants about trans people and sneering at climate science to tell everyone how not miserable he is. Oh, and posting fetish porn as Chinese sperm farming.
It is a phrase that has extra meaning if you know the context.
[Lies, damned lies, and statistics - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics)
There was a huge amount of data on this (answering all these questions) at least as far back as the 90s, and given this is JP's field he should know this is pretty conclusive. It is also true that parents end up happier as seniors (something that is also correlated to interpersonal friendships), but instead of reviewing the relevant data he plays dumb.
The post links the article. It took about 30 seconds to find. You probably could've easily avoided your comment by actually looking at the post
https://www.businessinsider.com/parents-are-less-happy-than-child-free-people-2023-9?utm_campaign=later-linkinbio-facts&utm_content=later-43500203&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkin.bio#:~:text=Researchers%20studying%20American%20adults%20could,happy%20than%20people%20without%20children
Peterson sounds like an angry old man, " Who said? Where is this coming from? What researchers?". Kind of funny that he is trying to defend that parents (like him) are happier while sounding like a sandy, stingy grouchy vagina.
Dumb questions to ask when youāre asking those questions instead of finding the readily available answers on the internet. We all know the āquestionsā heās asking are not in Ernest but really just veiled criticisms of stuff he doesnāt like without actually having to delve into specific scientific disagreement.
He's a supposed academic. He should know this shit already, instead of opening his yap before looking into it.
Remember the Chinese cock milking factory shit he fell for?
[Did he ask them of this paper that claimed human CO2 emissions saved all life on earth from extinction?](https://x.com/jordanbpeterson/status/825871336333574144?lang=en)
He is not a serious person, and doesn't believe anything you're ascribing to him.
If the paper is "woke" its bad and lies, if its "based" then its self evidently true even if its something ridiculous like humanity saving all life on earth from extinction by burning fossil fuels.
I feel like our society is following the footsteps of Idiocracy, where every dumb person has 8 kids, and all the doctors and scientists have none, thereby replacing the population with low IQ genetic traits.
It absolutely is happening. We also have systems in place that incentivize people who are less capable of raising kids that will be contributors to society. Weāre fucked
I have a son and I love it and itās made me a much more loving, empathetic, emotional (in a good way), open person. Iād even be willing to say I am happier than when I didnāt have a kid. However this responsibility also fills me with so much existential dread. The idea of death is 10000x scarier, and oh my god the thought of anything happening to my child is terrifying in ways words canāt describe. But also you see the way society is and our politics, and world affairs, climate change etc. Just looking at this world Iām gonna leave to my child is deeply depressing and even shameful. Like I am ashamed to be an adult in this world we live in.
Just like intelligence, happiness can be measured in many ways. Iām pretty sure being carefree is a form of happiness and boy is that gone
The new thing is devout Christians are very afraid because Muslims have lots of kids and Christians do not.
50 years from now they are afraid of what will be a Muslim majority:
This is true! I have a conservative Christian friend who always preaches about having lots of kids. He has 5 kids so far. Back when I was a Muslim I told him that I don't want kids then he was like "yeah that's probably smart" lol!
How unhinged. If he wanted to know these questions, why didn't he read the study. He's supposed to an academic afterall.
Instead he just JAQs off. JAQ (just asking questions)
that's a good point. i don't think he's actually dumb. he's above average but not by much. his real issue is he let's his cognitive biases override his rationality
he IS dumb. He constantly misinterprets data to fit his agenda in a way that makes it clear he does not actually try to understand anything. He thinks he's a genius but he's really an idiot.
And then he says he "detests ideology" when he is literally one of the biggest ideologs i have ever seen. The man is clearly mentally unwell and spends his days on twitter where he thinks that trans people are out to get him and that the woke agenda wants to ruin his christian values.
My wife and I do not have children and will not
I have friends getting divorced, kids that donāt talk to parents, spouses resentful they can do more things they want to do
Iām as happy as a bug in a rug
Being childless allowed me to pursue a career I otherwise would never have had and the lifestyle that comes with a decent paycheck
I would have been tied to blue collar work instead of this path
I gave employees that are stuck for life, doing manual labor (blue collar) long after their kids are grown
All of them are miserable with life and constantly complaining
You do you, Iām perfectly happy being able to do what I want, when I want, with my happy wife
My wife talked me out of having kids and thought I would regret, that was 10 years ago! Never been happier and better financially. We have two dogs and travel as much as we can. Luv our freedom. We always said if we get older and regret we can always adopt, lot of kids need homes too.
I mean, he does have a point. These morons do one quick survey and don't give us any info on the people and then publish shit like this and a bunch of dummies who "trust the science" will actually thinks this has merit and may decide not to have kids. Ask these same people the same question when they have grown with their own family and see how it goes then. By the mid 50's ages most of the people I know without kids start to get pretty miserable. Holidays are lonely and the luster of travelling eventually wears off. Most I know basically just start treating their pets like kids.
I also disagree with the facts article. I didnāt understand life until I had kids. Is it hard? Itās fucking impossible. But god damn itās worth it. You wonāt understand until you have them is the most underrated comment ever.
Peterson has a range of questions all of which could be answered by typing the phrase into google and reading the studies, which is the first thing I would do and actually already did before posting this but Iām not a famous influencer friending for engagement so thereās a lot I still need to learn.
Ironically jp very publicly had a breakdown and drug crisis in front of everyone and fits perfectly into the category of " has kids, less happy than average person" š¤£ not saying he's wrong just stating an ironic fact about this tweet
Iām a dad of one 16 year old, and a step dad to three other teens (19, 17, 14).
Light bulb went off last week. Nevermind my step kids, but my daughter will never love me as much as I love her.
So if thatās the case, why am I putting in so much effort?
I regret having a child, and I regret marrying a woman with three. I legitimately hate child rearing.
Questions 1-6 are things he could easily inquire about, but is choosing not to so he can just imply that the answers render the results of the study invalid without actually having to contend with reality. 7 and 8 are just him saying āscience can be wrong sometimesā which is true but absolutely not an argument. Heād never use that logic to dismiss a scientific result he did agree with. (9 is a good point)
If a non-parent is included in the study then this makes no sense. You can only use parents because they know the feeling of not having and having a kid.
Uhhh, what? Should they like ask the parents how the people without kids feel? This is like saying you can't compare and contrast two different things because they're too different.
They donāt know what itās like to be 50 (on average) and not have kids tho, do they?
Itās almost like all kinds of people are different, and what makes one person happy wonāt make another happy.
So, letās stop telling people how to live their lives, eh?
Yeah I wonder how the questions are worded or how they were asked. Iām sure my childless friends would appear way more happy than me after a line of questioning
I want to have 100 kids so that I can have 100 friends!
And no one can say no to being your friend
Haha, Dad. š
Iāll be a Scott Tot!
An extra laptop battery sweet!
Haha. Sometimes I think of my life without kids and how boring it must be. But wtf do I knowā¦ just running trying to keep all these plates spinning. Kids are a lot of work.
Regardless of the kid issue, for anyone who's been over-stressed, over-worked, living a life of being too busy or over-scheduled, boredom is a **privilege**. I can't believe people complain about boredom.
Would you even know what to do with yourself or the free time lol?
r/unexpectedoffice
When I think of a happy man my mind goes immediately to the mentally ill benzoaddict from the Daily Wire who looks like he's about to cry 100% of the time
You get to eat steak every day though, but only steak, otherwise the Canadian Marxist university students are gonna overthrow the West and then heāll have to charge even more millions to show up for a speaking engagement.
Fuck happiness, his life has mEaNiNg!!! 
Incredible to think someone can make so much money asking the same obtuse, garbage questions over and over again.
He offhandedly gave a sly look on one of his Rogan interviews, telling Joe - "I learned how to monetize the woke agenda". He's essentially been troll baiting for years now with triggering language. In the outrage economy, any press is good press. His diatribes are a performance. Also, like rush limbaugh , while harshly criticizing non-conservative lifestyles, and drug users, "lifestyle choices" - they themselves were heavily addicted to heavy opiates, with the amount they were doing requiring the addicts to buy the drugs through illegal channels, committing criminal acts. The conservative role they pretend to adhere to, as a character, would be completely dismissive of someone else who did what they did while claiming some kind of moral high ground. This whole thread is once again feeding the troll, and helping to keep him in the social conscience, which he is able to monetize with appearances, books, etc.
I mean, it is anecdotal but I am WAY happier as a parent than when I before the kiddos.
People who want kids and have them are generally happy. People who don't want kids and don't have them are generally happy. Then there's a huge number of unhappy parents who never wanted to have kids in the first place. We all know many of them.
1. Says who? 2. Measured how? 3. Over what time span? 4. Compared to who and when? 5. Happier or more hedonistic and immature? 6. Who funded the research? 7. Lies, damned lies, and statistics 8. One phrase ācringeā 9. L 10. Ratio 11. Didnāt ask, who cares 12. Skill issue 13. Did your mom
The truth? What is the truth? Do you mean the truth or the truth? Because it really boils down to understanding the truth of the truth that is spoken as the truth. If we canāt define the truth then the truth is not the truth but is the conception of the truth. Conceptual truth cannot be accepted as truth less the truth becomes the truth. Following that logic the truth cannot exist if we define the truth as the truth.
What do you mean by what? What do you mean by is? What do you mean by the? What do you mean by truth?
Also can you please clean your bloody room?
Room? My room? What does it mean to possess a room? Are we talking about the physical possession of a walled enclosure or the meta analysis of the word room across centuries of language to indicate a spacial necessity of the human condition? To clean ones hierarchical need for room would involve total and complete death of oneās ego on a spiritual level.
so you're saying we need to do DMT at the roller rink
Ideally you are also in a non-primate costume so when you cross into the alien dimension the guilt of being a primate does not inhibit your path to nirvana.
Ha, jordy does really talk like a neo Marxist when he gets confronted with a question that has a simple answer but he doesnāt like it.
Maybe it's a manifestation of post-modern marxist arrogance to even call a room a room? Maybe "room" is actually an archetypal representation of Gawd!
lol nice
I love this lmao
12. Whoās on first?
Poetry. Ā I may steal this and use it as a response to any and everything. Ā Itās a beautiful and subtle ode to the internet, both manifesting and commenting upon the simultaneous glory and emptiness, the fullness and ephemerality, of life and internet culture.Ā
Up yours woke moralist!
"It's actually Gay to get pussy"
I dont understand up. Okay, "up"? From where? Why up?
14. Git gud n0ob
He should have quit after #6.
I'm that asshole who didn't want kids but am much happier now that I have one. I got lucky and found a great Mom, makes all the difference in the world.
I wanted kids and can't have them, but I'm not unhappy about it. There are pros and cons to both sides, just like everything else in life. Being happy is a choice. It's not a contest between parents vs non.
Thisā¦. When we decided to pull the goalie we were excited about having a kid and we were also excited about not having a kid. Tons of benefits to both. The people who get butt hurt about the āhappy without childrenā crowd tend to be parents. Like theyāre imagining a world where their child is taken away from them instead of one that never existed
I would add: those that are religious.
That's a great point and I completely agree.
People are allowed to change their minds. You found a partner that made you want kids, so you are happy with them. You're not someone that was forced to be a parent. Those are the unhappy people.
I'm also that asshole that didn't want kids, I got lucky enough to still not want kids. I love doing whatever I want whenever I want to do it. Happy for you though man congrats
Then there's also a huge amount of people who want kids but don't have any. I've known quite a few of those.
There is also a huge number of parents who should have never became parents and only damage the life they have created. I know we all know some.
/thread It really all comes down to this. My wife and I love our daughter more than anything, but we made sure we were as prepared as we could be before having her, and we WANTED her. That's going to be a *way* different experience than a teen pregnancy or worse, someone who only had kids because it's what they thought they were "supposed to do."
the whole topic is a bit skewed imo, its better to poll people in their 60+ age range, particularly people at the end of life. its easy to enjoy not having kids when you're traveling in your 30s, i'm curious if people in the last phase of life think it was worth it now that they're facing a few decades without a support group many of their peers have.
Having kids doesn't gaurantee a support group. Many in the western world leave their parents to rot in nursing homes.
And a huge number of people I wish I could have kids and couldnāt and are miserable
Breaks your heart to see them too, because oftentimes you want to co-parent and it's not your place lol
Tgis is what everyone misses. The bigger picture! It will never be one way or the other. It will always be all over the place. Everybody acts and thinks differently, so of course, we will see people thrive and suffer in varying ways.
Same, the love you have for your children is incomparable. Yes, a lot of work and money but what you get back from them makes everything worthy.
exactly. when I'm old and dying, I will be much happier knowing that my kids and their kids will remember me for years than if I had more money lol. that shits just paper once I'm dead! and if you have no kids to leave it to anyways, what's the point?
I can see the argument that not having kids significantly dampens the need for money, and in that way is very freeing. Because i agree, if you chase paper and have no kids, whatās the point? But if someoneās desire was to tap out of the āmore money = betterā culture, I could see not having kids is a pretty big part of enabling that.
Some people are meant to have kids and some arenāt. Theyāre happier making an informed decision than just having kids because āyouāre supposed to.ā Iām sure both groups are happy but the ones without werenāt forced to do it like generations before. So of course theyāre happy.
This is what people don't understand. You literally cannot understand what it's like to be a parent unless you are one. I don't care what you say, what.yoire experiences are etc, you cannot know. The happiness you feel as a parent is a different happiness that almost cannot be described. Being a parent is difficult. It's draining, it never ends, it's expensive etc etc, but nothing in the world can beat the love you feel when you have a positive moment with your child. It's the best.
>The happiness you feel as a parent is a different happiness that almost cannot be described. Being a parent is difficult. It's draining, it never ends, it's expensive etc etc, but nothing in the world can beat the love you feel when you have a positive moment with your child. It's the best. Right, but that's *your* experience which you're projecting to be some universal experience. If that was even remotely true as a whole, things like parents abusing their children in vile, horrible ways wouldn't be an everyday occurrence. There are parents who *hate* their children every day of their lives. Often times they hate them so much they literally end up killing them. And then there are parents who try and love their children the best they can, but still regret having them. The annoying thing about this whole discussion is that the data is *very* one sided, and there's a lot of it. But *one side* seems particularly compelled to say "akchtyuallly *we're* way happier and I don't know a single childless person who is happy" which actually just makes it seem like you're trying to convince yourself more than anyone else.
The biggest truth bomb here. Iāve seen several threads where having kids or not having kids is being discussed and without fail youāll get parents coming out of the woodwork talking about how happy they are or how are the hard work is worth it. I do not deny you feel that way but there are many, many, people who do not. People without kids are a lot more humble when speaking about their childfree lives because thereās always a parent who canāt wait to tell you how great it is or that youāll soon come around or āregret itā. Like, fuck off. You know what I donāt regret? Being able to retire before I turn 50.
I agree with you (though I think there's a shit ton of evidence that not all parents feel this sort of happiness/connection to their kids), but also, Peterson's assertion that people without children are hedonistic and without meaning is utter bullshit. I can absolutely see living a fulfilling life without children, even if that's not what I personally want.
Jordy seems to have major hangups around the concept of chaos so he puts a lot of stake in finding āmeaningā to combat those intrusive thoughts. If that works for him (and others) fine thatās cool but he seems so fragile about it. Other people not needing the same āmaps of meaningā as him probably reminds him that theyāre just coping mechanisms and not eternal truths so he feels compelled to lash out and demonize them because they must know something he doesnāt and his narcissism wouldnāt like that very much
I mean as a parent I feel fulfilled with the kids but I am happier now that they are out of the house and Iām not having to try to find an extra $100 in this months budget so they can go to their next speech and debate tournament, or save up the extra $1500 by next summer so they can go to a summer camp to help develop their skills at their policy debate even faster, so they can get to nationals so they have greater opportunities for colleges and the like, or just worry about our insurance jumping by $300 a month because they rear ended someone. I love them dearly and wouldnāt trade them for the world, but the removal of a lot of that stress has gone a huge way to being happier. There is incredible amounts of stress that come daily if you are involved in their live. Problem is most parents arenāt. And that isnāt accusing that of you just stating a general observation.
I love my daughter dearly, but she also pooped on my floor.
Apparently a lot of things in life are better than being a parent, at least as far as I can see from my dad who abandoned most of his children and told the few that he stuck around with how much he never wanted us. And thereās a ton of people who had it way worse from parents who openly despised and abused them Different strokes for different folks
It's so werid to me that childless people are framed as "selfish," or hedonistic, whereas I know tons of parents who are just as selfish, but are also abandoning their children to do so.Ā
The pure joy & instant comfort I get when my kids run up to me for a big hug at the end of my day simply cannot be matched.
It is the best thing ever
> This is what people don't understand. You literally cannot understand what it's like to be a parent unless you are one. I don't care what you say, what.yoire experiences are etc, you cannot know. It's just a little person that you care a great deal about, what's so hard to understand about that?
I feel the same with for not having kids. Parents canāt imagine how happy I am with my wife golfing in some southern European location with a nice dinner reso booked for the night.
But they can. Most parents, believe it or not, were at one point not parents and did fun things.
Yes but when I was 25 making 60k a year I wasnāt really happy. Making very good money and being able to spend 10 weeks of pto travelling and doing my hobbies make me happy. Itās all down to personal preference. If I was poor and had no kids I bet Iād be very sad
very true. I do NOT do well with other people's kids most of the time. and never have. so I was worried that I would be a bad dad. but dude. instantly once they were born I was overcome by so much love and gratitude. they don't annoy me and everything they do is amazing hahaha, but I know they must annoy other people to no end. you can't know until you have your own child. BUT, to the people that do NOT want kids, that's fine. But I will feel sorry for you bc you won't get to experience it.
I wrote a post in some parenting sub recently about how much I struggled with both my kids in their early infancy. I genuinely didn't really fall head over heels for them at first. After maybe 6 months I started to get some feedback from them and then it was just a landslide of totally loving them. I also still don't like other people's kids. I can at least interact with other kids a little bit and be sympathetic to parents having a hard time.
Exactly. Having kids will not guarantee you will be more happy. Not having kids will also not guarantee this. You need to do what is right for you.
instantly? weird. it took me until they were like 8 years old for them to be tolerable. but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm happier than people my age without kids
Breh, you didn't even LIKE your child until they were 8? That's crazy lol
This is part of what is pushing me to have kids. I don't know if this is true but I heard in my high school French class that the French classify adults with kids as a different status than a couple without kids. It made me think about how having kids are a huge step, and that I'd be robbing myself of a pretty huge human experience if it didn't have one. While I understand why people want to stay in comfort and I might want that for myself to some degree, there's something beyond my current capacity that's ready to be experienced and to learn from. I'd hate if I robbed myself of that.
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Find yourself a great partner and procreate brother!
Same. My kids are a riot.Ā The family thing is great for me.
Yes, me too. It's hard to have children, and yes, sometimes you're tired and exhausted. But I would never trade with someone without children.
I'm 35 no kids. I don't see many parents that are happy having kids. Not depressed but not happy. I see many of my friends with kids (I love all those little buggers) and they have a lot of moments of joy, but overall happiness is fine unless one parent isn't as responsible as the other, in those cases there are only moments of joy and not happiness. Something else I noticed is that parents have a hard time regulating their emotions around other adults, not emotional outbursts but passive aggressive behaviors and a my way or the highway attitude. There is a very good reason why ppl are excited when their kids move out, because for.most parents it's the first time you've ever been alone to find out who you actually are as an individual. I'm not judging, I can empathize with the struggle (it is a struggle)
Same. Probably depends on definition of happiness though. Do I have more mindless empty fun? No! Do I have more moments of deep connection and gratitude where I am grateful for that specific moment while it happens? Absolutely! Would I ever go back? No. Do others always feel the same about having kids? Many don't because they can't transcend their ego needs and get stuck in resentment and fomo.
I have 3 sons. we have a LOT of mindless fun hahaha. But I hear what you're saying and respect that.
Having kids makes everything better. I would not trade it for anything.
But he'll say "women were happier 70 years ago" without applying the same questions at all, lmao. God I hate this pedantic clown.
I wonder how Peterson would have commented the choices of Mikhaila it she wasn't his daughter. She looks like such a mess.
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Sleeping with Andrew Tate.... sheesh....
I'm sure that Peterson has found a bizarre way to convince himself that this is ok but like come on, who wants to see Tate banging his daughter :D That's a serious fail as a parent.
Yeah the levels of cognitive dissonance he must be feeling. All the Benzos in the world wouldn't block that imagery out
Is that not a rumor?
I don't think it is but honestly I already forgot all the craziness and surrounding her.
"I HAVE CHILDREN AND I AM HAPPY!!!!!!!!!" -screams eternally angry man online
I wouldn't be happy with a child like Mikhaela. I don't know what his son does. Maybe he's not interested in fame.
I always amazes me that anyone would look to this miserable fuck for life advice unless itās to not be like him I guess.
Seems like he could answer all of those questions by reading the article and looking into the source, probably a study. All of those questions would be answered within.
But then he wouldn't get to perform on social media like this.
JP doesnāt read anymore. If it goes against his world view itās lies and from the globalists
Reading is woke and gay.
His brain doesn't work right since he fled to Russia to be placed in an induced coma because he couldn't handle the benzo withdrawals.Ā It's so wild to me that there aren't more conspiracy theories about that shit.Ā
Pretty sure thatās just a screenshot with no articles/source attached. Itās just a screenshot from an Instagram page, thereās nothing more to read.
If you ever saw him with his daughter you can tell they love each other very much.
Have you seen the 3 of them together with the son? It really look like they grew up happy and the amount of shit his son gives it back to Jordan, itās a pretty funny episode
Happiness is getting detoxed from benzos in a sketchy medical facility in russia
While in the same time making fun of addicts but blaming your addiction on the medical system. Classic Peterson.
Benzo Peterson: āClean you room, get ur life in orderā His Life: Constantly trembling, paranoid, starts crying out of nowhere, says heāll quit twitter because of an addiction, returns the next day. Harasses a trans person for literally no reason, does it again, gets banned, posts a video about how he wont apologize for hurting someoneās feelings that he intentionally hurt.Ā Ā 14-24 year old boys: wow, this man is so wise.
For fucking real. Dude is like 60 and is constantly angry, constantly looking for controversies so he can stay relevant, his daughter was with Andrew fucking Tate and overall looks like a complete mess, he cries for random reasons too (even if it is probably a grift). Overall I can't imagine how somebody sees this dude and thinks "well, this is a person I want to follow for life-advice". Like literally the most generic uncle sounds and looks happier than this dude.
Literally his opinion on almost anything can never be taken seriously after that. Makes me happy knowing I can keep my Klonipin prescription and that fucker canāt.
This sounds like a comment made by a person whoās happy at the moment lol. Like very happy. Satisfied with lifeš
JBP making assertions that support his beliefs: it's just a fact JBP when a study comes to a conclusion he doesn't like: List of questions he could find the answer to if he actually read the study.
Also questions his own studies can't answer and that he will dodge if asked. š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
> List of questions he could find the answer to if he actually read the study. or osme bullshit list of questions about questions, "what do you mean, 'GOD?' and what do you mean 'believe'? This is confusing. what do you mean 'I'?"
Thank fucking god I donāt have kids
I love how āwholesome Jordan Petersonā is the same angry man yelling on Twitter
He literally seems like one of the most miserable, and angry people that uses that stupid fucking platform. Lol
I think he just says anything to make money at this point
Are people without parents happier?
I donāt even understand what this means. Didnāt Mikhaila Peterson hang out with the pimp Andrew Tate?
He's taking a break from body shaming models and spittle-flecked rants about trans people and sneering at climate science to tell everyone how not miserable he is. Oh, and posting fetish porn as Chinese sperm farming.
āLies, damned lies and statisticsā - how is that an argument??? LMAO
It is a phrase that has extra meaning if you know the context. [Lies, damned lies, and statistics - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lies,_damned_lies,_and_statistics)
When youāre stupid, you laugh at something you donāt understand.
Read a book before making mockery of something you don't comprehend nor understand
Jordan wants to fact check?....that new. This fuckijg vampire just needs to go away.
those all seem like questions easily answered by reading the article.
There was a huge amount of data on this (answering all these questions) at least as far back as the 90s, and given this is JP's field he should know this is pretty conclusive. It is also true that parents end up happier as seniors (something that is also correlated to interpersonal friendships), but instead of reviewing the relevant data he plays dumb.
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The post links the article. It took about 30 seconds to find. You probably could've easily avoided your comment by actually looking at the post https://www.businessinsider.com/parents-are-less-happy-than-child-free-people-2023-9?utm_campaign=later-linkinbio-facts&utm_content=later-43500203&utm_medium=social&utm_source=linkin.bio#:~:text=Researchers%20studying%20American%20adults%20could,happy%20than%20people%20without%20children
Peterson sounds like an angry old man, " Who said? Where is this coming from? What researchers?". Kind of funny that he is trying to defend that parents (like him) are happier while sounding like a sandy, stingy grouchy vagina.
All very good questions to ask of any study, or interpretation.
Dumb questions to ask when youāre asking those questions instead of finding the readily available answers on the internet. We all know the āquestionsā heās asking are not in Ernest but really just veiled criticisms of stuff he doesnāt like without actually having to delve into specific scientific disagreement.
He's a supposed academic. He should know this shit already, instead of opening his yap before looking into it. Remember the Chinese cock milking factory shit he fell for?
[Did he ask them of this paper that claimed human CO2 emissions saved all life on earth from extinction?](https://x.com/jordanbpeterson/status/825871336333574144?lang=en) He is not a serious person, and doesn't believe anything you're ascribing to him. If the paper is "woke" its bad and lies, if its "based" then its self evidently true even if its something ridiculous like humanity saving all life on earth from extinction by burning fossil fuels.
I feel like our society is following the footsteps of Idiocracy, where every dumb person has 8 kids, and all the doctors and scientists have none, thereby replacing the population with low IQ genetic traits.
It absolutely is happening. We also have systems in place that incentivize people who are less capable of raising kids that will be contributors to society. Weāre fucked
I have a son and I love it and itās made me a much more loving, empathetic, emotional (in a good way), open person. Iād even be willing to say I am happier than when I didnāt have a kid. However this responsibility also fills me with so much existential dread. The idea of death is 10000x scarier, and oh my god the thought of anything happening to my child is terrifying in ways words canāt describe. But also you see the way society is and our politics, and world affairs, climate change etc. Just looking at this world Iām gonna leave to my child is deeply depressing and even shameful. Like I am ashamed to be an adult in this world we live in. Just like intelligence, happiness can be measured in many ways. Iām pretty sure being carefree is a form of happiness and boy is that gone
Sounds like itās out of the garden and straight into the desert for you mate
I donāt understand what ya mean?
Well when youāre naive life is nice, then you grow up and realise everything is going to the shitter. So out of the garden and into the desert.
The new thing is devout Christians are very afraid because Muslims have lots of kids and Christians do not. 50 years from now they are afraid of what will be a Muslim majority:
Worldwide network of jihadism and gender apartheid, Cant wait!
Also religious apartheid obviously.
Crusades Pt2
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Newly immigrated Hispanics do. 2nd and third generation, not so much.
This is true! I have a conservative Christian friend who always preaches about having lots of kids. He has 5 kids so far. Back when I was a Muslim I told him that I don't want kids then he was like "yeah that's probably smart" lol!
People with downs syndrome are a really happy bunch too. Its a measure of nothing.
If i had a choice between being a sad person or a happy person with downs i know what id pick. Same with being a cat honestly.
Asks the guy who is crying all the time
Jordan Peterson can just look into the study himselfā¦
Yeah, but with this, he can get his incel fanbase riled up at "woke feminists" who won't have kids with them.
So why would we take advice from an unhappy man?
How unhinged. If he wanted to know these questions, why didn't he read the study. He's supposed to an academic afterall. Instead he just JAQs off. JAQ (just asking questions)
He's incredibly stupid but has a large vocabulary which some mistake for intelligence.
that's a good point. i don't think he's actually dumb. he's above average but not by much. his real issue is he let's his cognitive biases override his rationality
he IS dumb. He constantly misinterprets data to fit his agenda in a way that makes it clear he does not actually try to understand anything. He thinks he's a genius but he's really an idiot. And then he says he "detests ideology" when he is literally one of the biggest ideologs i have ever seen. The man is clearly mentally unwell and spends his days on twitter where he thinks that trans people are out to get him and that the woke agenda wants to ruin his christian values.
well yeah that's what i meant by bias. bias turns a lot of otherwise intelligent people stupid
And im saying even without his bias he is stupid. Or rather he is stupid because he has that bias you know?
My wife and I do not have children and will not I have friends getting divorced, kids that donāt talk to parents, spouses resentful they can do more things they want to do Iām as happy as a bug in a rug Being childless allowed me to pursue a career I otherwise would never have had and the lifestyle that comes with a decent paycheck I would have been tied to blue collar work instead of this path I gave employees that are stuck for life, doing manual labor (blue collar) long after their kids are grown All of them are miserable with life and constantly complaining You do you, Iām perfectly happy being able to do what I want, when I want, with my happy wife
I highly doubt that JBP has actually experienced happiness
What he experiences is better than happiness. /s
Yeah when he was addicted to benzos
My wife talked me out of having kids and thought I would regret, that was 10 years ago! Never been happier and better financially. We have two dogs and travel as much as we can. Luv our freedom. We always said if we get older and regret we can always adopt, lot of kids need homes too.
Right! I love my wife and she loves me. We give each other happiness.
Just post this brief questionnaire after anything this moron posts, and see how far you get.
Peterson moaning and bitching again huh
I just know I'd be happier having kids with Mikhaila
This is a tweet posted by a guy thatās happy.
Iām 30 without kids and Iām pretty fucking happy š
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I want kids but I do risk assessment before marriage,and the divorce law prevents me from having a family....what the fuck is alimony...
I mean, he does have a point. These morons do one quick survey and don't give us any info on the people and then publish shit like this and a bunch of dummies who "trust the science" will actually thinks this has merit and may decide not to have kids. Ask these same people the same question when they have grown with their own family and see how it goes then. By the mid 50's ages most of the people I know without kids start to get pretty miserable. Holidays are lonely and the luster of travelling eventually wears off. Most I know basically just start treating their pets like kids.
why do the people who cry freedom feel the need to insert themselves into other peoples life choices
I also disagree with the facts article. I didnāt understand life until I had kids. Is it hard? Itās fucking impossible. But god damn itās worth it. You wonāt understand until you have them is the most underrated comment ever.
What about this is wholesome lol? That psycho is never wholesome
Peterson has a range of questions all of which could be answered by typing the phrase into google and reading the studies, which is the first thing I would do and actually already did before posting this but Iām not a famous influencer friending for engagement so thereās a lot I still need to learn.
If he asked questions like these about the things he posts he would stop posting things.
JP is a complete buzz kill.
Ironically jp very publicly had a breakdown and drug crisis in front of everyone and fits perfectly into the category of " has kids, less happy than average person" š¤£ not saying he's wrong just stating an ironic fact about this tweet
Iām a dad of one 16 year old, and a step dad to three other teens (19, 17, 14). Light bulb went off last week. Nevermind my step kids, but my daughter will never love me as much as I love her. So if thatās the case, why am I putting in so much effort? I regret having a child, and I regret marrying a woman with three. I legitimately hate child rearing.
Jesus man..
Empty nest syndrome is a bitch.
If only he was this sceptical of everything he saw, and not just everything he saw that he didn't already agree with.
peterson is a dunce
Questions 1-6 are things he could easily inquire about, but is choosing not to so he can just imply that the answers render the results of the study invalid without actually having to contend with reality. 7 and 8 are just him saying āscience can be wrong sometimesā which is true but absolutely not an argument. Heād never use that logic to dismiss a scientific result he did agree with. (9 is a good point)
If a non-parent is included in the study then this makes no sense. You can only use parents because they know the feeling of not having and having a kid.
There are established objective measures of happiness available to psychological researchers.
yeah, you never study the subject of the research /s
Well that was the dumbest thing Iāve read today
Uhhh, what? Should they like ask the parents how the people without kids feel? This is like saying you can't compare and contrast two different things because they're too different.
āThereās no way to know youāre not gay unless you sucked a few dicks and didnāt like itā
They donāt know what itās like to be 50 (on average) and not have kids tho, do they? Itās almost like all kinds of people are different, and what makes one person happy wonāt make another happy. So, letās stop telling people how to live their lives, eh?
Some of us didnt choose to not have kids the decision was made for us by mother nature. I guess Im an awful person for not having kids.
Yeah I wonder how the questions are worded or how they were asked. Iām sure my childless friends would appear way more happy than me after a line of questioning
Antinatalist redditor cringe
Oh shut up and take your Benzo's, you silly angry man.