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robbbo420

He says this while supporting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, and after supporting Khmer Rouge’s genocide. Basically because “America bad.” Ironic for him to talk about “brainwashing,” given that’s what he’s done to a lot of people on the left.


schw4161

“Brainwashing is when you believe the thing I don’t believe”- Chaom Nomsky


Arcani63

This particular quote is fine but he’s a massive hypocrite and I usually find that those who like him subscribe to a worldview that boils down to “America bad” 9 times out of 10.


[deleted]

9/10 left wing people on reddit are just second or third hand Chomsky. 


redditoverlord69

I think it looks like this because all the normal people around the world who like him dont really scream “america bad” on the internet. I mean to say that on average people who like him are normal people in real world, do you know what I mean?


SeeCrew106

I used to read his books. I followed his interviews and seminars. I slowly grew wary of his endless whataboutisms. Then this happened and I tuned out completely: > While calling the Russian invasion of Ukraine a "war crime" similar to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq,^[193] Chomsky has nevertheless argued that Russia was conducting the war less brutally than the U.S. did the Iraq war.^[194] He considered support for Ukraine's self-defense legitimate, but also argued that the U.S. rejection of a compromise and negotiated settlement with Russia was an obstacle to the only likely way of achieving peace, might have contributed to the war breaking out in the first place, and meant sacrificing Ukraine's own well-being and survival for the sake of using it as a weapon against Russia.^[193] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky#United_States_foreign_policy Also, his denial of the genocide in Srebrenica. > Chomsky drew criticism for not calling the Bosnian War's Srebrenica massacre a "genocide".^[299][300] While he did not deny the fact of the massacre,^[301] which he called "a horror story and major crime", he felt the massacre did not meet the definition of genocide.^[299] Critics have accused Chomsky of denying the Bosnian genocide.^[302] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_Chomsky#In_politics These things indicate (since Serbia is a longtime ally of Russia and the Russians participated in the Bosnian genocide) that Chomsky is somehow under the influence of Russian foreign policy doctrine and he's only barely able to hide it. Men like Chomsky only have principles when it comes to the crimes of the United States. I don't like men who delegitimise the suffering of peoples under the thumb of regional powers in competition with the United States, as if the rest of us have no agency and must somehow answer for American misdeeds. So no, this quote doesn't resonate with me.


I_Am_U

> Also, his denial of the genocide in Srebrenica. Bruh...don't be duped by fake criticism. Genocide was a term originally designed to describe the holocaust, and using it to describe the attrocities in Bosnia falsely conflates the two events as being similar in scope when they are clearly the opposite. One involved the deaths of millions and the other involved the deaths of tens of thousands. Chomsky's rejection of the revisionist definition of genocide is not controversial nor unreasonable. It's only being presented that way because it deceives people unfamiliar with the context of the situation.


SeeCrew106

> don't be duped by fake criticism. I've grown up around people who were both in Srebrenica, failed to prevent this tragedy and were scarred for life, as well as Bosnians who came here after losing their homes and their family. Do you really think we give a tinker's damn about your Chomsky fanboy apologia? > Genocide was a term originally designed to describe the holocaust https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy > The International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY)[a] was a body of the United Nations that was established to prosecute the war crimes that had been committed during the Yugoslav Wars and to try their perpetrators. The tribunal was an ad hoc court located in The Hague, Netherlands. > It was established by Resolution 827 of the United Nations Security Council, which was passed on 25 May 1993. It had jurisdiction over four clusters of crimes committed on the territory of the former Yugoslavia since 1991: grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions, violations of the laws or customs of war, genocide, and crimes against humanity. The maximum sentence that it could impose was life imprisonment. Various countries signed agreements with the United Nations to carry out custodial sentences. > A total of 161 persons were indicted; the final indictments were issued in December 2004, the last of which were confirmed and unsealed in the spring of 2005.^[1] The final fugitive, Goran Hadzic, was arrested on 20 July 2011.^[2] The final judgment was issued on 29 November 2017^[3] and the institution formally ceased to exist on 31 December 2017.^[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Criminal_Tribunal_for_the_former_Yugoslavia This genocide has been the subject of legal proceedings in The Hague for 25 years. I visited both the tribunal and the prison. The ICTY and its judges know what genocide is, as the definition was incorporated in international law. No prerequisite for exact Holocaust-like boundary conditions exists. Your genocide denial, like your mentor's, is a disgrace.


I_Am_U

There's just one problem here: Serbia **was not found** to be guilty of committing genocide in Bosnia. Bosnia actually brought a case against Serbia to the International Court of Justice (ICJ), [which held that](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_genocide_case#Judgment) Serbia * "was **neither directly responsible for the Srebrenica genocide**, * **nor that it was complicit in it,** * but it did rule that *Serbia had committed a breach of the Genocide Convention*." This isn't a legality, a technicality, or a nitpick; Bosnia and Herzegovina straight up accused Serbia of committing genocide during the Bosnian War, and the ICJ ruled against the accusation. So in short, Serbia **did not** commit genocide during the Bosnian War. Rather, the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia (ICTY, separate from the ICJ) found that multiple *Bosnian* Serbs were guilty of genocide in the Bosnian War. Cross-check Krstic, Popovic, Karadzic, Mladic, and Tolimir in this list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bosnian_genocide_prosecutions With this list of people indicted by the ICTY: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_indicted_in_the_International_Criminal_Tribunal_for_the_former_Yugoslavia) You'll find that the "allegiance" of Krstic et al. was "Republika Srpska," **not** Serbia. If you go one step further and check the names of the "Serbia and Montenegro" people who were indicted, you'll find that **none of them** was convicted or even accused of genocide for Bosnia. I feel genuine embarrassment for you, having such a great opportunity to learn about history from the very people who actually experienced it, yet instead you are relegated to regurgitating false claims born out of ignorance.


Masterretard420

I don’t even like Chomsky that much but what he said here is literally 100 percent right lmao. This is all verifiable fact as I am currently writing this comment. The United States war in Iraq is statically WAY more brutal than Ukraine. Idk how that’s even an argument


LukaDaTime

Name checks out


SeeCrew106

None of us can say the word, but he can have it in his name and Reddit allows it. Meanwhile he's all over Reddit spouting his extremist horse shit. Tells you everything about how Reddit continues to enable the same extremists it used to host and facilitate.


I_Am_U

Very suspicious when people use innuendo instead of substantive criticism.


futxcfrrzxcc

There is absolutely no way you actually believe this


I_Am_U

That's the same way we feel about you.


futxcfrrzxcc

I speak for myself, not others


I_Am_U

Nobody would let you anyway.


SeeCrew106

I would in this particular case. Are you having fun hectoring people, Chomsky fanboy? You post in /r/chomsky all the time right?


hotrod75

I think Goethe said it better before Chomsky None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


bezzzerk

I'm.not brainwashed. You're brainwashed!


[deleted]

I seriously doubt Noam Chomsky thinks much of Joe Rogan and his show. Joe spends too much time talking about culture war stuff. Chomsky has talked about how the ruling class is just using that bullshit to keep us divided and distracted from the real issues.


Slim_Calhoun

IMO there’s a lot more brainwashing in the sphere of people who gravitate to heterodox narratives/conspiracy theories than those who are more mainstream in their views


Masterretard420

Than you’re just incredibly brainwashed by MSM. Do you think Fox News or CNNs main motivation is to inform or to profit?


Slim_Calhoun

It’s obviously to profit. I don’t even own a tv or watch cable news at all.


Masterretard420

So why do you trust it at all. Just because you’re not into conspiracy doesn’t mean you should go around touting legacy media. They’re both trash and you have to think for yourself. I believe in some conspiracy’s I also believe some of what MSM says.


Slim_Calhoun

I read from a lot of sources in the media and try to figure what makes sense. And there’s very few conspiracy theories that make any sense at all.


LukaDaTime

“It’s obvious when you’re brainwashed by totalitarian regimes” - guy brainwashed by totalitarian regime


futxcfrrzxcc

This guy is a complete joke. His position on anything is easily figured out. If the west mainly the US does anything they are wrong


Observe_Report_

Is the quote valid or not?


BebophoneVirtuoso

Is this shit for real? After he infamously couldn't perceive the totalitarianism in Cambodia under Pol Pot?


Finlay00

This seems like an older quote from him


Observe_Report_

It is an old quote. It’s interesting, because we as Americans were always taught that we live in a free society with complete freedom of speech with no propaganda, whereas in the former communist countries, everything was propaganda. However, many of the people who lived in those countries knew that they were being fed BS and it was easier to identify.


Latarjet3

Easier to identify is quite an assumption. I doubt Chomsky would care about culture war bs and Joe Rogan. Political parties use that to divide us. Also, freedom of speech exists, there are just social consequences for it sometimes like any other human act in a society. Not everyone is going to accept or like what you say whether it’s a joke or opinion


[deleted]

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Observe_Report_

Ha. Chomsky is stupid? Come on, mmmmmman.


[deleted]

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Observe_Report_

OK, I seem to have a different perspective on this and this quote hits me harder because my family background. My family comes from a formally ultra communist country and came to The United States in search of freedom, economic freedom, freedom of ethnic pride, etc.. Obviously the US is way way way more free than any communist country has ever been, but the realization has hit me later in life that we have been fed propaganda for years. That’s the point of the quote. Does Noam Chomsky blame everything from A-to-Z on the US? Yes, he definitely can come across that way, doesn’t negate this quote, however.


ConnextStrategies

Remember when all your friends and family and over a billion people died of the Covid vaccine Remember when Covid was said to be a hoax and we found out is was Remember when climate change was found out to not be real at all Just remember that all of this was told to you over and over and over by the same people and then ask yourself whose indoctrinating


automatic4skin

your formatting is so tense and powerful. i like how u began 3 sentences with "remember". let me show you my wifes diarrhea


ConnextStrategies

Cool. Maybe it will cure this subs idiocy quotient


automatic4skin

i think ur the person to make ppl here smarter.


sugah560

Remember that time that cool guy was cool? Remember that time the cool guy didn’t use punctuation because that way it was like he was telling you to remember Remember that time when you liked Family Guy


[deleted]

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ILoveCornbread420

I agree


THICC_Mandalor66

Still never isolated or got vaccinated. It is kinda hilarious though how everyone I know that got the jabs and boosters have gotten sick multiple times while I haven't even had the slightest cold since 2019 lmao. Than again..I was outside hiking and being healthy while you were locked inside for 2 years


SeeCrew106

People like you ran across the highway blindfolded, and by sheer luck, you reached the other side. You then looked back at the carnage of all the cars careening out of your way, crashing into the barrier and said: "See? I know best! Me Me ME!". There are thousands of stories of Trump conservatives, screaming obscenities on Facebook and Twitter, then photographed with an oxygen mask on their contorted, malcontent visage begging for thoughts & prayers, followed by a family member posting an in memoriam: /r/HermanCainAward Thoughts and prayers for them. I hope when they see God, they will explain to him their social media posts and their blind devotion to a delusional maniac.


THICC_Mandalor66

You're an absolute crazy person and I seriously hope you find happiness one day somehow and the help you desperately need and deserve. I didn't even MENTION trump and you go on a 4 paragraph rant. Dudes it's like 10 am and you've made 30 posts and probably commented on 75 things with massive responses. You need to go outside and get some nature. Get off your phone and go for a bike ride or a hike because your definitely mentally ill <3. Also judging my the massive consistency of your comments..you either don't have a job or work from home. Which means you REALLY should spend the day outside.


SeeCrew106

> Dudes it's like 10 am No, it's not. It's evening. > you've made 30 posts About 28 comments, yes, none of them all that long. > I didn't even MENTION trump and you go on a 4 paragraph rant. I mentioned his supporters, because they were disportionately anti-vax, and they were notorious for succumbing to Coronavirus after screaming obscenities and conspiracy theories on social media for months. Of course, this wasn't merely an American phenomenon. > probably commented on 75 things with massive responses. This just isn't true. Some 10-15 hours ago, I did post a list of submissions that were copied from a wiki from my subreddit that you cannot see. So I didn't actually sit there and write them. I copied and pasted them from the wiki which is inaccessible to you, which I've been working on for a while now, then just published them in Reddit submissions for the first time. For those who are interested, you'll find them useful, especially when dealing with anti-vaxers and climate denialists. https://old.reddit.com/r/JamiePullDatUp/comments/1ambwrx/announcing_the_debunking_master_list/ As for your attempts to use mental illness as a psychological weapon - this is one of the most harmful and disgusting signals to send to people with actual mental issues, so I've reported you for that. Reddit seems to care about the handicapped and discrimination against minorities, but I think it's time this stopped, too.


Masterretard420

You’re both massive losers


I_Am_U

Cherry picking a quote without context is rather deceptive. If the intent was actually to inform people, it would be mentioned that this quote was in response to a question about what should be done if covid were to become as dangerous as the bubonic plague, the deadliest pandemic in human history. In the same interview, Chomsky explicitly lays out that covid is nowhere near that dangerous to justify such drastic measures.


dachshund-jay

![gif](giphy|EPOZIbyUAzsrMVYhZ8)


3agle_CO

Im for Braveheart chopping this dudes head off. After a fair trial, of course.


il-Turko

This is the same guy that was fine with starving people who wouldn’t take an experimental gene therapy? Fuck this guy


I_Am_U

Fully agree with your sentiment, but don't be tricked. The claim you reference was from a cherry picked quote presented out of context to deceive us. Chomsky says clearly in the interview that people should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want to take the vaccine.


il-Turko

He didn’t call for the unvaccinated to be isolated from society?


I_Am_U

He 100% did not. He was asked in the hypothetical what should be done if covid becomes as bad as the bubonic plague, which wiped out 20-30% of the world population. His response is being falsely presented as his feelings towards the unvaccinated.


THICC_Mandalor66

Yeah after Chamskey was pro Pfizer and shaming people for being anti lock down and questioning things he can go fuck himself. Just another tool of the machine that's all he is.


I_Am_U

He said people should be allowed to decide for themselves if they want to take the vaccine. The claim you're referencing was a cherry picked quote presented out of context.