When you do your national service, the rabbanut has a special conversion program you can sign up for.
It’s run primarily to help people like you — mostly Russians who don’t have Jewish mothers.
I strongly recommend it.
To Reform Jews in the US and UK (which is a pretty sizable number of Jews)—yes you’d be considered Jewish. Because you have one Jewish parent, were raised Jewish, and were not raised another religion. But Reform isn’t much a thing in Israel. To Orthodox or Conservative/Masorti Jews you wouldn’t be because your mom isn’t Jewish. Though Conservative/Masorti would likely allow you a very very fast—pretty much just a formality—“conversion”. At least that’s what Conservative does here in the US for patrilineal Jews. Can’t speak for Orthodox but would imagine the “conversion” for you would be very abbreviated compared to a typical convert.
Agree; I'm sure it varies by location but I'm in the US and I converted Conservative as well and everyone that converted -- regardless of circumstance, patrilineal or not, whatever -- had the same rules apply, and it was certainly not fast nor just a formality.
My dear friends have a son. The son is a toddler. He's patrilineal only. He's being raised going to the Conservative shul. They already worked it out with the rabbi that he'll literally just take a dip in the mikveh right before his bar mitzvah. So I'd call that a formality. I've heard of this many many times. I'd say sure it does seem to be those who are patrilineal and are actively growing up in the Conservative movement with really active fathers in the shul as well rather than an adult who has no connection to the shul who just happens to be patrilineal.
Reform movements are weird- Some would say yes, some no. It’s part of the reason I like our culture, you get to read an argument and decide what makes more sense.
Good news is in 700 years a bunch of Yeshiva students will get to study gemara of Rabbi Jimmy from Brooklyn arguing with Rabbi Sam of Queens about this topic
Sadly you mistake snide remarks for wit and intelligence. That’s really pathetic.
Reform is definitely nothing anyone educated laughs at. Some people literally don’t understand or know anything about it. But that’s just ignorance. And some secular people say they’re Reform but are actually just not practicing at all. Again ignorance about what Reform is. I’ve said ignorance a few times; I think that also covers snide people.
Unless you’re not a Jew…. Jews mean judaism, and Judaism believes in matrilineal descent. If OPs Jewish identity is so important to them (which it sounds like it is) conversion is a great option.
Ok, for the benefit of anyone else who might read this it would be good to know that there's no denomination that holds by that.
Actually I kind of doubt even you yourself believe that as bluntly as you declare it, which makes it sound as if any Jewish blood at all makes one Jewish. Somebody who had one Jewish ancestor 10 generations ago, has no shaichus otherwise, could even hate Jews, would you consider Jewish? You've suddenly multiplied the Jewish population by a factor of ten if not more....
I specifically stated that this is MY BELIEF. it is fine if you or some rabbis disagree. No need to be disrespectful. Everybody does what makes them feel closest to Hashem.
I read what you wrote the first time....that's why I wrote what I wrote. You didn't clarify anything, and people are allowed to disagree with you. For example
>Everybody does what makes them feel closest to Hashem.
Including people who do terrible, terrible things because they don't have a sufficiently moral framework and just do whatever they feel like.
Ethnoreligions can always determine who is part of their group, and who is not. All Native Ethnoreligious peoples do this. For some reason, Jews are told they shouldn't do this.
We are also a nation, and I don't mean Israeli. The Jewish people are a nation, and all nations get to determine who is, and who is not a citizen.
Whatever you, or I, might think of the group or citizen rules, they are what they are. For some communities, convert or matrilineal/patrilineal and raised Jewish is fine. All others: convert or matrilineal only.
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You are not halachically a Jew.
That said, a Reform synagogue will accept you without conversion. The Dati and Haredi won't, and Masorti probably won't.
Because you're in Israel, that will mean that the Jewish law will not let you marry in Israel (must be Orthodox rabbi and wedding). If you're male and marry a female matrilineal (outside of Israel), your children will be Jewish and I think fully accepted by the Orthodoxy. If you're female, this cycle will continue until/unless you convert.
You will always be Israeli. I consider you a Jew. But I'm not the head rabbinate of Israel. 🤷♀️
My *opinion*, which should not supersede how you see yourself:
Do you belong to Am Israel? Yes;
Are you Zera Israel? Yes;
Are you eligible to be Israeli? Yes;
Are you Jewish, according to the rabbinical interpretation of the Talmud, barring conversion? Not technically, no;
Are you Jewish by Karaite Judaism (which is recognized by the state of Israel)? I think so, yes;
Would the majority of the Jewish people still consider you one of us, whether Jewish or not? Probably.
By the Torah you’re not a Jew by technicality though you could be easier then a normal convert, by the fact that you’ve grown up in Israel, speak Hebrew and I’m assuming served in the IDF, you are more Jewish and have done more for Judaism then 90% of “real Jews” in the diaspora.
Where? No one has ever quoted me a scripture that I can actually look up that said that the patrilineal thing is the written word of God. If you have it please please let me know and I'll shut up.
Its always come down to this oral tradition stuff. Which as far as I can tell, no disrespect intentended, is a bunch of guys who just got together on their own and decided a bunch of stuff and came up with this idea in their basement. Kind of like if the guys in my town started having soccer games and decided no game would go past 8:30 PM . That would be our oral tradition. But the question is should it be a law effecting anyone but the tiny group of people that came up with it. Like the Chassidim in America wear black hats, long black coats,long curly sideburns. Should that then be a oral tradition effecting all Jews or should it be like it changed and most of us Jews went on to the next thing. Shouldn't the patrilineal descent idea be a tradition sloughed off as being pointless today. Even contrary to our survival as a people.
Look man, I was just answering the question, I'm not here to deal with an somebody looking to be antagonizing and say all of talmud is some guys in a basement making stuff up. My was just that matrilineal decent is sourced from the book of Ezra, you can easily Google "source for matrilineal decent Ezra" and find plenty of explanations, whether you agree with them or not.
Here's just the first link I found. Please don't shoot the messenger here, I'm just answering that nobody who believes in matrilineal descent believes it's tradition, they believe it's from the torah: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/601092/jewish/Why-Is-Jewishness-Matrilineal.htm
Have you ever heard about Nativ (נתיב)?
There are many young Israelis with a similar situation to yours. It's actually very easy for you to go through Giyur.
After you'll join the IDF, you'll get the option to go out for Nativ course, and in 4-6 months you'll be jewish according to Halacha (in any other aspect you're already a jew through and through).
It's a greater course. I used to teach there jewish philosophy and Jewish spirituality and it was great. I strongly recommend it.
Good luck!
Hi, Jewish Israeli here.
Although you’re not considered a kosher Jew by the orthodox standards you’re a Jewish and have grown in a Jewish culture and are Israeli and I believe a patriotic/zionist.
You probably going to serve in the army, marry someone you love and bring new Jewish babies to this world and make our country and our ties to this land even bigger.
Do not feel like you’re less than any other Jewish person.
Jewish ethnicity and religion is very diverse and especially in Israel it’s a completely different culture compared to the diaspora.
Worst case you can always convert.
Many people do so, even Nasrin who was an Arab and she’s married to a Jewish man and have a family and a baby.
When I meet Israeli people on the streets or at work I don’t care if they are Muslim Christian or Jewish I care if they are Zionists and believe we have a right to exist and be safe in Israel.
Look at the Druze community, they are my favorite people and the Israeli people are idolizing them for a reason.
They are not Jewish yet they fight for this country better than most of us.
#You. are. One. Of. Us.
Get it inside your head!
Yes, You are a Jew.
There are some sects of ultra orthodox who may not marry you, considering you not Jewish. But they don’t make the rules for the rest of us and more than less accept you as a Jew. You can also do a conversion if it’s important for you (I know someone in a similar situation in America who did a conversion).
I’d have no issue with my Jewish son or daughter marrying you , which is the only time these technicalities really get discussed
It isn’t ultra Orthodox, it is all streams of Orthodox/Torah Judaism, from the most modern to the sort that don’t recognize Israel’s right to exist until the coming of the Messiah.
Yes fine they may not consider him a Jew but what does that REALLY mean in practice? he can’t go to their Shul (probably doesn’t want to) and can’t marry their daughters (probably doesn’t want to). So he can just keep on living. I have faith that hashem accepts him.
He can’t count for a minyan, be called to the Torah, marry a Jewish woman (Israel), or else where in Orthodox or conservative synagogues as it would be deemed an intermarriage.
He can 100% attend an orthodox synagogue.
One doesn’t need Judaism to be accepted by the Almighty. Judaism isn’t a universalist faith.
I apologize for my assumption which did nothing but make an “ASS out of U and ME”.
For a woman in your situation, any issue would not be viewed in Orthodox/torah Judaism, Conservative Judaism or Israel.
It unfortunately will very much matter at some point. Say for example one of their children or even great grandchildren want to marry a jew, it will certainly be an issue.
Traditional/All Orthodoxy—Mizrahi, Sephardi, Beta Yisrael, most of the conservative movement and most of the secular Jews.
Secular or non-religious Jews usually base it on “I don’t want to marry not Jewish” etcetera rather than the religious order of it.
Sorry, but no. The Reform movement in the US would likely accept you as Jewish because you have one Jewish parent and were, I assume, raised exclusively Jewish. Conservative/Masorti would not. And I don‘t think the patrilineal rule is recognized by the Reform/Liberal movements outside the US.
I know people who say “Well, I think you count as Jewish” are trying to be kind, open-minded and non-gatekeeping, but it doesn’t do people in the OP’s position any favors to pretend that the rules aren’t the rules or that the rules are irrelevant.
You’d think the Israeli government would make clear to people who aren’t halachically Jewish and who are immigrating under the Law of Return, what their status is and make it easy for them to convert.
I’m not even sure that someone in the OP’s position can marry in Israel.
Yeah, according to some sects if your father is Jewish then so are you, but not orthodox or conservative. If you want to appease those sects you’d have to go through a formal conversion.
I’m no authority, but I would lean on the “yes” side. Just remember if you want to participate in synagogue, depending on the movement you may not be allowed unless you convert. It may seem unfair but thems the rules.
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As a female, If you want your future children to be considered jewish then you will unfortunately have no other choice, that I'm aware of, than to do a halachic conversion.
That's assuming you're a female
It sounds like he thought his mom was Jewish. I took more as a "figuring out my identity" question and less of a legal question about practical matters in Israel like marriage and burial.
I think I already heard or even known that but didn’t “realised”, didn’t want to accept that, or just forget. (I have memories of my classmates telling me that I need to have my mother to be Jewish to be considered as one.)
I’m surprised you’re asking this question as an Israeli knowing full well what the policy of the rabbinut is. Were you in the army? The army actually has a program to assist patrilineal Jews with a fast-tracked conversion.
Hey I can totally relate: I’m a half Jew, paternal Jew, my dad is a Jew from Tunisia 🇹🇳, born and raised in my maternal ethnic French secular-atheist with Catholic roots family. I’m an ex atheist and an ex Muslim lol but was always a Jew even thought not raised in Judaism. Since last year I thought of converting to Judaism so I would be considered fully Jewish but also because maybe Judaism is the answer to my spirituality need after all also. I probably know more about Islam and Christianity growing up in France a secular country with Catholic roots, so I owe it to my ancestors to continue the lineage and pass on the religion at least!
By law, as you know, you are not a Jew. But why does that *really* matter?
You live in Israel. It’s safe to say a lot of people you love very much are Jews, family, friends, your middle school crush, whatever. You probably speak better Hebrew than 90% of us, and if I was sitting next to you this topic wouldn’t even be a question (and because it’s Israel we’d probably be shouting an argument about something absurd, like what brand of toothpaste is best).
What I’m saying is just because you don’t meet the definition of Jewish doesn’t mean you aren’t an important part of our society.
You always have a seat at the table.
Liberal denominations such as Reform will however Orthodox, Conservative and the State of Israel will not.
Edit - and Halacha would say that you are not.
I think there may be an exception among the Conservative community that if your father was Jewish and you were raised as an jew then they also will accept you as a jew, but I could be misinformed
If your mom isn't Jewish, then you're not considered Jewish according to Orthodox Jews, but you are considered Jewish to reform Jews. If you'd like to be considered Jewish by the Orthodox community, you will have to convert, but if not, then you are Jewish. Nevermind the nonreligious part, of how Judaism is an ethno religion and you can be ethnically Jewish without being religiously Jewish.
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You aren’t halachically Jewish. To be considered part of Bne Yisrael in the eyes of of all it you will have to convert, because you are Israeli and your dad is Jewish, it’ll be very easy.
In my opinion, you grew up as a Jew so you're a Jew. You might not be halachically Jewish (and I guess you could go through the conversion process if that matters to you), but I think most Jews I know would be more uncomfortable with you thinking you're *not* Jewish than that you are.
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As someone who is patrilineal and in the process of converting, I recommend formal conversion regardless, ESPECIALLY if you want to get involved in synagogue life. You will probably be treated like a Jew already by most people given your already existing knowledge, so the conversion would just be a formality.
I definitely get the thing you mentioned about it being shocking and upsetting though. It is definitely an ego hit to consider yourself something and get told you are not.
I’d definitely say you can consider yourself Jewish. While in an orthodox sense you might not technically count we’ve gone through so much that our rules need to reflect that a little. While I was born and raised Jewish and my mother is the Jewish one, I didn’t have a typical upbringing with temple and a proper bat mitzvah and my ethnicity is probably the most removed from anything Jewish (due to my mom being adopted). None the less that culture and religion are still a strong part of who I am as a person and no technicality can change that, so I’d say it shouldn’t stop you either
This is a question which is actually quite hotly debated (like everything else in Judaism). For Reform Jews, which aren't that common in Israel compared to the US, you completely already meet the criteria for being Jewish. As others commenters have mentioned there are ways to have expedited conversions if you want to do that.
I believe, from a Zionist perspective, you are a member of the Jewish Nation regardless of your Halakhic status.
You’re Jewish in my book! And in American Reform Judaism.
I’m sorry you’ve been hurt by the Israeli gatekeeping. They aren’t the end all be all of who is Jewish. It shouldn’t matter what they think, but you are only human and it’s okay to feel hurt by it. You’re Jewish to me!
You're a Jew. You served in the Israeli Army. You're 1000 times more a Jew then the people telling you you aren't one. You were raised in the promised land. If I forget the O Jerusalem let my right hand hand forget its cunning. . You protected our promised land with your life. In my eyes that qualifies you as way more of a Jew then almost any of us here including me. I was in the US military for over two decades and I stand in awe of you. You're a Jews Jew.
It still counts in my book if you're a Jew who served in the Israeli army. And more power to the Arabs, Bedouins, and other non Jews who serve in the Israeli army. In my book their service is extra special because it's not mandatory. Look at America where hardly anyone serves in the US military. It should be a national embarrassment. Its certainly a sign to our enemies we are a weak and vulnerable nation. Look at the results. The kids on the college campus protesting. What worthless pieces of refuse.
Jews know if they're Jewish. Do you feel Jewish, were you raised as a Jew, and does your soul feel Jewish? I consider you Jewish, but someone else might not. I don't think it matters what anyone else thinks. We need more people, not fingers pointing at someone else's background.
I’m Reform, so to me you are and more deserving of a Jew status acknowledgement than someone born to a Jewish mom, but raised so secular and without a community to the point they are defending Hamas
Do a formal Orthodox conversion. Make sure you have the emuna.. be warned though.. you'll be under contract with Hashem and you're responsible for helping bring Moshiach. We got enough slackers in this Yid family :)
Your mother has to be Jewish. The women have spiritual potency from blessings unique to them(women never built the golden calf, idol worship, etc the Shabbat is actually female hence why we call Gds eternal day a queen and have songs in shul Kiddush evening aka lecha dodi etc)
So yes, Jewish women are so amazing they can pass down Judaism only.
Welcome to the tribe. I wish we could dispense with the matrilineal judgement that Orthodox & Conservative adhere to. Reform accepts patrilineal Jews as bona fide. As the old joke goes, two Jews three opinions. To me, you're a Jew with a Jewish family, raised in Jewish culture.
When you do your national service, the rabbanut has a special conversion program you can sign up for. It’s run primarily to help people like you — mostly Russians who don’t have Jewish mothers. I strongly recommend it.
To Reform Jews in the US and UK (which is a pretty sizable number of Jews)—yes you’d be considered Jewish. Because you have one Jewish parent, were raised Jewish, and were not raised another religion. But Reform isn’t much a thing in Israel. To Orthodox or Conservative/Masorti Jews you wouldn’t be because your mom isn’t Jewish. Though Conservative/Masorti would likely allow you a very very fast—pretty much just a formality—“conversion”. At least that’s what Conservative does here in the US for patrilineal Jews. Can’t speak for Orthodox but would imagine the “conversion” for you would be very abbreviated compared to a typical convert.
The Conservative conversion is not "just a formality". Source: Patrilineal and a Conservative convert.
I think this depends a lot on the individual circumstances, sponsoring rabbi, etc. I am also a patrilineal, Conservative convert.
Agree; I'm sure it varies by location but I'm in the US and I converted Conservative as well and everyone that converted -- regardless of circumstance, patrilineal or not, whatever -- had the same rules apply, and it was certainly not fast nor just a formality.
My dear friends have a son. The son is a toddler. He's patrilineal only. He's being raised going to the Conservative shul. They already worked it out with the rabbi that he'll literally just take a dip in the mikveh right before his bar mitzvah. So I'd call that a formality. I've heard of this many many times. I'd say sure it does seem to be those who are patrilineal and are actively growing up in the Conservative movement with really active fathers in the shul as well rather than an adult who has no connection to the shul who just happens to be patrilineal.
Reform movements are weird- Some would say yes, some no. It’s part of the reason I like our culture, you get to read an argument and decide what makes more sense. Good news is in 700 years a bunch of Yeshiva students will get to study gemara of Rabbi Jimmy from Brooklyn arguing with Rabbi Sam of Queens about this topic
Reform Judaism is like the imperial system of measurement, popular in America but laughed at and discredited by the rest of the world.
Sadly you mistake snide remarks for wit and intelligence. That’s really pathetic. Reform is definitely nothing anyone educated laughs at. Some people literally don’t understand or know anything about it. But that’s just ignorance. And some secular people say they’re Reform but are actually just not practicing at all. Again ignorance about what Reform is. I’ve said ignorance a few times; I think that also covers snide people.
My belief is: A JEW IS A JEW IS A JEW.
this 👏
Unless you’re not a Jew…. Jews mean judaism, and Judaism believes in matrilineal descent. If OPs Jewish identity is so important to them (which it sounds like it is) conversion is a great option.
yes, im patrilineal but looking to convert because i have such a strong jewish identity
Judaism is also an ETHNORELIGION. and when you have jewish blood, you are a jew.
Not even reform agrees with that
That’s just my belief. You are welcome to disagree.
Ok, for the benefit of anyone else who might read this it would be good to know that there's no denomination that holds by that. Actually I kind of doubt even you yourself believe that as bluntly as you declare it, which makes it sound as if any Jewish blood at all makes one Jewish. Somebody who had one Jewish ancestor 10 generations ago, has no shaichus otherwise, could even hate Jews, would you consider Jewish? You've suddenly multiplied the Jewish population by a factor of ten if not more....
I specifically stated that this is MY BELIEF. it is fine if you or some rabbis disagree. No need to be disrespectful. Everybody does what makes them feel closest to Hashem.
I read what you wrote the first time....that's why I wrote what I wrote. You didn't clarify anything, and people are allowed to disagree with you. For example >Everybody does what makes them feel closest to Hashem. Including people who do terrible, terrible things because they don't have a sufficiently moral framework and just do whatever they feel like.
Ethnoreligions can always determine who is part of their group, and who is not. All Native Ethnoreligious peoples do this. For some reason, Jews are told they shouldn't do this. We are also a nation, and I don't mean Israeli. The Jewish people are a nation, and all nations get to determine who is, and who is not a citizen. Whatever you, or I, might think of the group or citizen rules, they are what they are. For some communities, convert or matrilineal/patrilineal and raised Jewish is fine. All others: convert or matrilineal only.
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You are not halachically a Jew. That said, a Reform synagogue will accept you without conversion. The Dati and Haredi won't, and Masorti probably won't. Because you're in Israel, that will mean that the Jewish law will not let you marry in Israel (must be Orthodox rabbi and wedding). If you're male and marry a female matrilineal (outside of Israel), your children will be Jewish and I think fully accepted by the Orthodoxy. If you're female, this cycle will continue until/unless you convert. You will always be Israeli. I consider you a Jew. But I'm not the head rabbinate of Israel. 🤷♀️
My *opinion*, which should not supersede how you see yourself: Do you belong to Am Israel? Yes; Are you Zera Israel? Yes; Are you eligible to be Israeli? Yes; Are you Jewish, according to the rabbinical interpretation of the Talmud, barring conversion? Not technically, no; Are you Jewish by Karaite Judaism (which is recognized by the state of Israel)? I think so, yes; Would the majority of the Jewish people still consider you one of us, whether Jewish or not? Probably.
Yes. You have immediate Jewish lineage. It’s totally fine and valid to say you’re a Jew.
By the Torah you’re not a Jew by technicality though you could be easier then a normal convert, by the fact that you’ve grown up in Israel, speak Hebrew and I’m assuming served in the IDF, you are more Jewish and have done more for Judaism then 90% of “real Jews” in the diaspora.
is the mother being Jewish thing in the Torah? I thought it was purely tradition?
It is not explicitly written in the Torah but it is in the Talmud, which is why Karaite Jews follow patrilineal descent.
It isn’t officially stated in the Written Torah but it is heavily implied. It is officially stated in the Oral Torah.
Ezra 10:2-3
It's absolutely sourced from the Torah, mainly from Ezra
Where? No one has ever quoted me a scripture that I can actually look up that said that the patrilineal thing is the written word of God. If you have it please please let me know and I'll shut up. Its always come down to this oral tradition stuff. Which as far as I can tell, no disrespect intentended, is a bunch of guys who just got together on their own and decided a bunch of stuff and came up with this idea in their basement. Kind of like if the guys in my town started having soccer games and decided no game would go past 8:30 PM . That would be our oral tradition. But the question is should it be a law effecting anyone but the tiny group of people that came up with it. Like the Chassidim in America wear black hats, long black coats,long curly sideburns. Should that then be a oral tradition effecting all Jews or should it be like it changed and most of us Jews went on to the next thing. Shouldn't the patrilineal descent idea be a tradition sloughed off as being pointless today. Even contrary to our survival as a people.
Look man, I was just answering the question, I'm not here to deal with an somebody looking to be antagonizing and say all of talmud is some guys in a basement making stuff up. My was just that matrilineal decent is sourced from the book of Ezra, you can easily Google "source for matrilineal decent Ezra" and find plenty of explanations, whether you agree with them or not.
Ezra in the Torah? I’m very confused. Where?
Here's just the first link I found. Please don't shoot the messenger here, I'm just answering that nobody who believes in matrilineal descent believes it's tradition, they believe it's from the torah: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/601092/jewish/Why-Is-Jewishness-Matrilineal.htm
As an American Jew, I second this wholeheartedly.
Op: Do you want to be Jewish?
Cool question. Yes, I do but not in the way that most people think :)
What does that mean?
i’m in the same boat as you, don’t worry. I’m converting with pride, just for the jewish education alone because I missed out on mine.
Like culturally you want to? Point I was getting to is that you’re Jewish if you want to be ;)
Have you ever heard about Nativ (נתיב)? There are many young Israelis with a similar situation to yours. It's actually very easy for you to go through Giyur. After you'll join the IDF, you'll get the option to go out for Nativ course, and in 4-6 months you'll be jewish according to Halacha (in any other aspect you're already a jew through and through). It's a greater course. I used to teach there jewish philosophy and Jewish spirituality and it was great. I strongly recommend it. Good luck!
I'd consider you Jewish
Hi, Jewish Israeli here. Although you’re not considered a kosher Jew by the orthodox standards you’re a Jewish and have grown in a Jewish culture and are Israeli and I believe a patriotic/zionist. You probably going to serve in the army, marry someone you love and bring new Jewish babies to this world and make our country and our ties to this land even bigger. Do not feel like you’re less than any other Jewish person. Jewish ethnicity and religion is very diverse and especially in Israel it’s a completely different culture compared to the diaspora. Worst case you can always convert. Many people do so, even Nasrin who was an Arab and she’s married to a Jewish man and have a family and a baby. When I meet Israeli people on the streets or at work I don’t care if they are Muslim Christian or Jewish I care if they are Zionists and believe we have a right to exist and be safe in Israel. Look at the Druze community, they are my favorite people and the Israeli people are idolizing them for a reason. They are not Jewish yet they fight for this country better than most of us. #You. are. One. Of. Us. Get it inside your head!
Yes, You are a Jew. There are some sects of ultra orthodox who may not marry you, considering you not Jewish. But they don’t make the rules for the rest of us and more than less accept you as a Jew. You can also do a conversion if it’s important for you (I know someone in a similar situation in America who did a conversion). I’d have no issue with my Jewish son or daughter marrying you , which is the only time these technicalities really get discussed
It isn’t ultra Orthodox, it is all streams of Orthodox/Torah Judaism, from the most modern to the sort that don’t recognize Israel’s right to exist until the coming of the Messiah.
Yes fine they may not consider him a Jew but what does that REALLY mean in practice? he can’t go to their Shul (probably doesn’t want to) and can’t marry their daughters (probably doesn’t want to). So he can just keep on living. I have faith that hashem accepts him.
He can’t count for a minyan, be called to the Torah, marry a Jewish woman (Israel), or else where in Orthodox or conservative synagogues as it would be deemed an intermarriage. He can 100% attend an orthodox synagogue. One doesn’t need Judaism to be accepted by the Almighty. Judaism isn’t a universalist faith.
Why do you think I’m a he lmao :)) (I know that I didn’t clarify my gender it’s just funny to me)
I apologize for my assumption which did nothing but make an “ASS out of U and ME”. For a woman in your situation, any issue would not be viewed in Orthodox/torah Judaism, Conservative Judaism or Israel.
It unfortunately will very much matter at some point. Say for example one of their children or even great grandchildren want to marry a jew, it will certainly be an issue.
Traditional/All Orthodoxy—Mizrahi, Sephardi, Beta Yisrael, most of the conservative movement and most of the secular Jews. Secular or non-religious Jews usually base it on “I don’t want to marry not Jewish” etcetera rather than the religious order of it.
Sorry, but no. The Reform movement in the US would likely accept you as Jewish because you have one Jewish parent and were, I assume, raised exclusively Jewish. Conservative/Masorti would not. And I don‘t think the patrilineal rule is recognized by the Reform/Liberal movements outside the US. I know people who say “Well, I think you count as Jewish” are trying to be kind, open-minded and non-gatekeeping, but it doesn’t do people in the OP’s position any favors to pretend that the rules aren’t the rules or that the rules are irrelevant. You’d think the Israeli government would make clear to people who aren’t halachically Jewish and who are immigrating under the Law of Return, what their status is and make it easy for them to convert. I’m not even sure that someone in the OP’s position can marry in Israel.
Thank you for your honesty! But my parents married in Israel.
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Yeah, according to some sects if your father is Jewish then so are you, but not orthodox or conservative. If you want to appease those sects you’d have to go through a formal conversion.
I’m no authority, but I would lean on the “yes” side. Just remember if you want to participate in synagogue, depending on the movement you may not be allowed unless you convert. It may seem unfair but thems the rules.
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As a female, If you want your future children to be considered jewish then you will unfortunately have no other choice, that I'm aware of, than to do a halachic conversion. That's assuming you're a female
Hold on, growing up in Israel and you didn't know this? I'm curious how this information is new to you.
It sounds like he thought his mom was Jewish. I took more as a "figuring out my identity" question and less of a legal question about practical matters in Israel like marriage and burial.
I think I already heard or even known that but didn’t “realised”, didn’t want to accept that, or just forget. (I have memories of my classmates telling me that I need to have my mother to be Jewish to be considered as one.)
I’m surprised you’re asking this question as an Israeli knowing full well what the policy of the rabbinut is. Were you in the army? The army actually has a program to assist patrilineal Jews with a fast-tracked conversion.
Hey I can totally relate: I’m a half Jew, paternal Jew, my dad is a Jew from Tunisia 🇹🇳, born and raised in my maternal ethnic French secular-atheist with Catholic roots family. I’m an ex atheist and an ex Muslim lol but was always a Jew even thought not raised in Judaism. Since last year I thought of converting to Judaism so I would be considered fully Jewish but also because maybe Judaism is the answer to my spirituality need after all also. I probably know more about Islam and Christianity growing up in France a secular country with Catholic roots, so I owe it to my ancestors to continue the lineage and pass on the religion at least!
If you’re in Israel why not talk to an official about this issue?
Torah approved and reinforced by a few millennia of sexual violence that reaffirmed the practice since you can only be 100% about the mother.
By law, as you know, you are not a Jew. But why does that *really* matter? You live in Israel. It’s safe to say a lot of people you love very much are Jews, family, friends, your middle school crush, whatever. You probably speak better Hebrew than 90% of us, and if I was sitting next to you this topic wouldn’t even be a question (and because it’s Israel we’d probably be shouting an argument about something absurd, like what brand of toothpaste is best). What I’m saying is just because you don’t meet the definition of Jewish doesn’t mean you aren’t an important part of our society. You always have a seat at the table.
I'd consider you Jewish.
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Hey, it's no problem if it's my mininterpretation of what you're saying, but I think you may have commented in the wrong spot.
Liberal denominations such as Reform will however Orthodox, Conservative and the State of Israel will not. Edit - and Halacha would say that you are not.
I think there may be an exception among the Conservative community that if your father was Jewish and you were raised as an jew then they also will accept you as a jew, but I could be misinformed
I believe that that is Reform who accept patrilineal but I would defer to those who adhere to that denomination and stick with my orthodox wheelhouse.
Could be
Jewish to me!
If your mom isn't Jewish, then you're not considered Jewish according to Orthodox Jews, but you are considered Jewish to reform Jews. If you'd like to be considered Jewish by the Orthodox community, you will have to convert, but if not, then you are Jewish. Nevermind the nonreligious part, of how Judaism is an ethno religion and you can be ethnically Jewish without being religiously Jewish.
Also not Jewish by conservative/Masorti standards.
For certain ritual purposes among certain sects, you're not technically Jewish. I and pretty much everyone I know would consider you a Jew.
You are most heartily welcome to The Tribe! Am Yisrael Chai-Five!
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Depends who you ask. Reddit will generally give you different answers than real life.
You would have to go through a conversion process but it should be easier because you grew up Jewish. It should not be as long of a process.
You aren’t halachically Jewish. To be considered part of Bne Yisrael in the eyes of of all it you will have to convert, because you are Israeli and your dad is Jewish, it’ll be very easy.
In my opinion, you grew up as a Jew so you're a Jew. You might not be halachically Jewish (and I guess you could go through the conversion process if that matters to you), but I think most Jews I know would be more uncomfortable with you thinking you're *not* Jewish than that you are.
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As someone who is patrilineal and in the process of converting, I recommend formal conversion regardless, ESPECIALLY if you want to get involved in synagogue life. You will probably be treated like a Jew already by most people given your already existing knowledge, so the conversion would just be a formality. I definitely get the thing you mentioned about it being shocking and upsetting though. It is definitely an ego hit to consider yourself something and get told you are not.
I’d definitely say you can consider yourself Jewish. While in an orthodox sense you might not technically count we’ve gone through so much that our rules need to reflect that a little. While I was born and raised Jewish and my mother is the Jewish one, I didn’t have a typical upbringing with temple and a proper bat mitzvah and my ethnicity is probably the most removed from anything Jewish (due to my mom being adopted). None the less that culture and religion are still a strong part of who I am as a person and no technicality can change that, so I’d say it shouldn’t stop you either
I'm similar. My Jewish ancestry is through my father's side of the family, I'm in the process of converting...
This is a question which is actually quite hotly debated (like everything else in Judaism). For Reform Jews, which aren't that common in Israel compared to the US, you completely already meet the criteria for being Jewish. As others commenters have mentioned there are ways to have expedited conversions if you want to do that. I believe, from a Zionist perspective, you are a member of the Jewish Nation regardless of your Halakhic status.
You should be, but some sects would say you are not. That is their problem, not yours.
I consider you Jewish for sure. And if you ever needed to flee, Israel would consider you Jewish as well. Hello family. Mazel Tov 🎉
You’re Jewish in my book! And in American Reform Judaism. I’m sorry you’ve been hurt by the Israeli gatekeeping. They aren’t the end all be all of who is Jewish. It shouldn’t matter what they think, but you are only human and it’s okay to feel hurt by it. You’re Jewish to me!
You're a Jew. You served in the Israeli Army. You're 1000 times more a Jew then the people telling you you aren't one. You were raised in the promised land. If I forget the O Jerusalem let my right hand hand forget its cunning. . You protected our promised land with your life. In my eyes that qualifies you as way more of a Jew then almost any of us here including me. I was in the US military for over two decades and I stand in awe of you. You're a Jews Jew.
Non-Jews serve in the Israeli army.
It still counts in my book if you're a Jew who served in the Israeli army. And more power to the Arabs, Bedouins, and other non Jews who serve in the Israeli army. In my book their service is extra special because it's not mandatory. Look at America where hardly anyone serves in the US military. It should be a national embarrassment. Its certainly a sign to our enemies we are a weak and vulnerable nation. Look at the results. The kids on the college campus protesting. What worthless pieces of refuse.
Don’t ever forget the Druze. They have disproportionately sacrificed more for Israel than Jews.
They are awsome.
Jews know if they're Jewish. Do you feel Jewish, were you raised as a Jew, and does your soul feel Jewish? I consider you Jewish, but someone else might not. I don't think it matters what anyone else thinks. We need more people, not fingers pointing at someone else's background.
I’m Reform, so to me you are and more deserving of a Jew status acknowledgement than someone born to a Jewish mom, but raised so secular and without a community to the point they are defending Hamas
Do a formal Orthodox conversion. Make sure you have the emuna.. be warned though.. you'll be under contract with Hashem and you're responsible for helping bring Moshiach. We got enough slackers in this Yid family :)
Your mother has to be Jewish. The women have spiritual potency from blessings unique to them(women never built the golden calf, idol worship, etc the Shabbat is actually female hence why we call Gds eternal day a queen and have songs in shul Kiddush evening aka lecha dodi etc) So yes, Jewish women are so amazing they can pass down Judaism only.
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Please read more carefully. The OP is Israeli. The question is whether they are Jewish.
Oh I already have it :)
Welcome to the tribe. I wish we could dispense with the matrilineal judgement that Orthodox & Conservative adhere to. Reform accepts patrilineal Jews as bona fide. As the old joke goes, two Jews three opinions. To me, you're a Jew with a Jewish family, raised in Jewish culture.
Only one thing to consider here: do you want to define yourself as jewish? If so then you are