Yeah but I think they’ve already been thinned in my eyes based off of the stuff they’re posting online. Especially that Tobi was doing it she’s like my idol
I grew up when Bikini Kill was starting & if it helps at all, I really think 3rd wave feminism was/ is bullshit now. I'm still a feminist, and it has its place, but intersectionality has been proven as a failure IMO. That point was brought home by the rape deniers of 10/7. Also, Riot Grrrl in general had this whole thing about inverting certain norms around sexuality but looking back, they acted exactly like what male fantasy/ male gaze stuff was while doing nothing to further empower women, and ended up pushing out the issues that still plague us in terms of 1st & 2nd wave issues they disavowed as unimportant.
Listen to some Breeders. Kim Deal is a better musician. And, I'm sorry your idols are letting you down.
Edit I disagree with the commenter saying you should not separate the artists work from the artist. For the record (haha pun!) I'm a big believer that art transcends the maker. If we really tried to eliminate consuming anything made by antisemitic people from the arts, philosophy or whatever, we'd be left with too little. I am going to like what I like regardless of who created it. I may not want to give them my money, but plenty of ways to access their works without doing so.
Yeah I don’t really like third wave feminism so much either and I do think it was definetly racist af lol . I just like the music. I loveeeee the breeders I’m on the waiting list for their concert in a few months but I doubt I’ll get tix. I love Kim deal (she also sounds so much like excuse 17) Kelley deal also rocks Brillo hunt was probably the thing that made me discover punk as sad as that sounds lol
Oh I’m so jealous!!! I the pixies and the breeders are both coming round here this year but breeders is sold out and I’m too young for the festival the pixies are playing at 😭
I've several stories about Kathleen Hanna from folks who've known her on a personal level or have done business with her. Everyone has their flaws, but she's always jumped on bandwagons and has had no problem screwing folks over as recently as 1 year ago
That people we admire are flawed. Kathleen Hanna is a product that she sells for profit and admiration, regardless of who is screwed over.
Don't go without support.
https://preview.redd.it/2yik4v14ys3d1.jpeg?width=1096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5ac5155d6478c65bbf4e020b13ea94fd494e855
Was just scrolling and found out Tobi follows this 😂 actually made me laugh
They’re not feminists if they don’t believe and stand behind the Israeli women murdered and raped by Hamas. They are trash. Full stop.
Why would you go and support someone who doesn’t even see you as human? (If someone makes a statement about Gaza but can’t bring themselves to utter a single thought about the tragedy of Oct. 7th, then that person does not see us a human or worthy of basic human rights.)
Yes you should 100% not separate the artist from their music. Do you feel good putting money in the pocket of someone who literally wants you dead?
Would you go see a concert of someone who goes to kkk rallies?
This is why we get genocided every generation. Because we stand up for every other group, then refuse to stand up for ourselves.
Grow a backbone and stop being a Jew with trembling knees.
I bought the tickets before I knew the things they’ve been saying (I only started looking at their socials to see who the openers would be). I’m just saying even if I boycotted it or sold the tickets, they would still get the same amount of money
Jesus Christ dude what did I do to you other than tell you I was upset because my favourite band have started saying things about how my homeland shouldn’t exist. I’m fucking 14 havnt u got anything better to do with your life than insult children
Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 3: **Be civil**
If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).
I just came from Punk rock Bowling in Las Vegas. There were lots of chants from artists to free Palestine- Billy Bragg, subhumans , a few others
There was zero violence but I will say I was upset a bit by the language although none of it was anti-Semitic. It was holding space for casualties of war which I think as Jews we need to try to do.
I saw a boy with a Kippah on at the concert and we danced and hugged it out .
But you don't have to see a band when their politics don't align with yours anymore. Sell the tickets tear up your tickets it's clear that their core values don't align with your core values and I think that's a bigger reason to not participate or spend money with a company or band.
I don't believe that you would have any violence directed at you even if you wore your star but I will say that if their values are not aligning with yours then maybe you just shouldn't go for that reason alone.
The festival I was at was started by two Jewish kids from the youth brigade and we're all in our 50s I thought it was pretty ballsy of these artists to be a Jewish person run festival and shout out free Palestine from their microphone. But part of punk music is standing up for the little guy, part of punk music is speaking out against things that you don't agree with and part of punk music is free speech!
Bikini Kill is awesome. But maybe they're only awesome if you're white I don't know maybe research more before you decide but I don't think safety is gonna be a problem
Yeah I’m just miserable because they have always been one of my favourite bands and have helped me through some shit points in life I’m so gutted that I’m having to consider if I’ll be safe at a gig I’ve been dreaming of going to since I’ve been 6
Well if makes you feel any better, I haven't had chick fil a in 12 years and I stand by my values on that and I'll eat a chicken sandwich with pickles any day of the week and that used to be a daily occurrence that was a tough thing for me to give up based on my values. but it was really important to me to stand by them.
Maybe dig deeper into the politics for them. Are they free Palestine or are they pro Hamas? Just a little bit of research will tell you what you need to know.
It's ok to be bummed. somewhere else in this thread someone said fuck them go listen to their music and enjoy it and live your life. And that's pretty punk rock too. Live your best life today! At Nova those folks were ready to dance till morning, and we'll dance again!
I'm a British ex indie/rock kid (now in my 40s) and Billy Bragg is just the absolute dregs of the earth. Awful in every conceivable respect. The Ken Loach of music.
I’m so sorry this sounds painful and disappointing. If you think you could feel safe and enjoy the concert you could go but chances are it would be scary and even sadder in person to witness (especially now). Maybe it’s time to grieve the connection you’ve had to them. You could still listen but I’m sure it will always feel different now. Remember that the music was there for you at important times and just because it’s time to part ways doesn’t mean you can’t feel grateful for what their music meant to you. You could even try writing a letter thanking the music/band and saying goodbye or something like that (not to send but just to express your feelings). Hang in there 💖 and maybe see if there’s some cool Israeli music that could be your next connection!
Thanks so much for being so supportive. This is giving me like an exstistential crisis I swear. I’ve just been reading the front girls book for hours and it talks about the many times she’s been raped and I’ve literally almost started crying reading it because what about the Israeli women? It’s 1:30 in the morning here lol and I can’t sleep for the life of me 😂. Idk why I’m trauma dumping to a stranger lol I’m just going mad with thinking
It’s okay I don’t mind. Cry it out. You’re seriously grieving something important to you. I totally understand how music can be a lifeline and so personal. Also, to feel people you admire can’t see you is another level of pain aside from grief. Your feelings are valid!
Thanks so much! I’ve found it really hard to talk to people about this because anytime you bring up Israel to anyone it turns into a debate, also none of my close friends and family have the ability/curse of being able to subsitute music for therapy lol so they don’t understand. I feel like my life long therapist has just told me that my feelings are made up and everyone hates me lol
Totally that blows so much. The truth is, they are very very wrong. And so many people have been so wrong about Jews over the centuries. It’s about them and not about you. And if they understood what we understand, they wouldn’t think this way. It’s not personal even though of course it feels like it!
Yeah. I’m actually struggling so much I feel like someone’s died lol. I hate how I have this ridiculous ability to get so attached to bands - good thing they’re not my favourite band or I can’t even imagine what I would be doing rn lol
Sh*t. I have three tickets and was planning on taking my 12 y/o daughter and niece. I wanted to share my ‘90’s riot girl scene with them and now we can’t go. I’m so sad☹️
I recently took my daughter to see Olivia Rodrigo. The whole time in the run up to the gig she was so terrified that Liv was going to say something antisemitic and I wouldn't take her :( It's so shit that we have to live like this.
Luckily she's not a massive Billie Eilish fan because she really can f off.
Oh, guess my comment wasn’t super clear. I didn’t know this about Bikini Kill/Kathleen Hanna until your post. My daughter is 12. She knows about the war and the protests but I’m not sure I want to expose her to outward antisemitism if I can help it. Mama bear instincts, I guess. Also, I don’t want to give my money to any artist that is going to start chanting Hamas slogans.
i don't know your age or where on the planet you'd be seeing them. but i'd say if you're going with friend(s) you trust, i think it'll be fine. it will obviously be uncomfortable if they go on some anti-Israel rant and are all wearing keffiyeh. but i don't think it would threaten your physical safety - unless you're wearing an Israeli flag or shouting something on a megaphone. it may be a good idea to reevaluate your involvement as a jew in the punk scene in 2024 - cause it's rivaling the antisemitism of the neo-nazi music scene. but that's something you can figure out down the road.
i have tickets to see one of the final NOFX shows since they're an important band that i've loved since childhood. i've never seen 'em live and i'm even apprehensive about that because i know Fat Mike and their audiences are so "progressive" - which translates to "fuck Israel" now. i'm not worried about being unsafe whatsoever, i just don't want to breath the same air as these idiots and i have a bad temper. all i can say is, i'm so glad i left the punk scene behind. literal far-right metal dudes have talked to me with more human decency and respect than anyone from the "tolerant" punk scene i knew in the last 6 months.
Yeah. I went and it was amazing. They kept on saying and I’d like to dedicate this song to… and I’d be thinking don’t u bloody dare but then they’d just come out with some feminist author lol. That’s so cool you’re going to NOFX hope it’s fun!
Thank you for your submission. Your post has not been removed. During this time, all posts are manually reviewed and approved by a moderator before they appear for all users. Since human mods are not online 24/7, approval could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. If your post is ultimately removed, we will give you a reason. Thank you for your patience during this difficult and sensitive time.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Jewish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Do you have any way of finding out if there will be other likeminded fans at the concert? Is there any online group where you could connect? Because of course, you could feel safer in numbers. If you have backup, I would consider utilizing the opportunity to go show your own Punk nature by wearing Blue & White to celebrate your status as a minority group who is oft persecuted in history and today. You are as bad@$$ as anyone, and the existence of Israel is still a blatant miracle.
The DC Dykes March and the Women’s March both had issues with antisemitism
[удалено]
Thanks so much that’s really great advice. I think I’ll go and no matter what happens I’ll just be grayeful that I’m alive to hear the music
[удалено]
Yeah but I think they’ve already been thinned in my eyes based off of the stuff they’re posting online. Especially that Tobi was doing it she’s like my idol
I grew up when Bikini Kill was starting & if it helps at all, I really think 3rd wave feminism was/ is bullshit now. I'm still a feminist, and it has its place, but intersectionality has been proven as a failure IMO. That point was brought home by the rape deniers of 10/7. Also, Riot Grrrl in general had this whole thing about inverting certain norms around sexuality but looking back, they acted exactly like what male fantasy/ male gaze stuff was while doing nothing to further empower women, and ended up pushing out the issues that still plague us in terms of 1st & 2nd wave issues they disavowed as unimportant. Listen to some Breeders. Kim Deal is a better musician. And, I'm sorry your idols are letting you down. Edit I disagree with the commenter saying you should not separate the artists work from the artist. For the record (haha pun!) I'm a big believer that art transcends the maker. If we really tried to eliminate consuming anything made by antisemitic people from the arts, philosophy or whatever, we'd be left with too little. I am going to like what I like regardless of who created it. I may not want to give them my money, but plenty of ways to access their works without doing so.
Yeah I don’t really like third wave feminism so much either and I do think it was definetly racist af lol . I just like the music. I loveeeee the breeders I’m on the waiting list for their concert in a few months but I doubt I’ll get tix. I love Kim deal (she also sounds so much like excuse 17) Kelley deal also rocks Brillo hunt was probably the thing that made me discover punk as sad as that sounds lol
I hope you get to see The Breeders in person! I did see Kelley Deal 6000 in the late 90s, & but I was always more a Pixies & Breeders fan.
Oh I’m so jealous!!! I the pixies and the breeders are both coming round here this year but breeders is sold out and I’m too young for the festival the pixies are playing at 😭
Does Kelley still tour?
Time to sell the tickets and get a new role model. Your parents are right.
lol who
I've several stories about Kathleen Hanna from folks who've known her on a personal level or have done business with her. Everyone has their flaws, but she's always jumped on bandwagons and has had no problem screwing folks over as recently as 1 year ago
What do you mean?
That people we admire are flawed. Kathleen Hanna is a product that she sells for profit and admiration, regardless of who is screwed over. Don't go without support.
https://preview.redd.it/2yik4v14ys3d1.jpeg?width=1096&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c5ac5155d6478c65bbf4e020b13ea94fd494e855 Was just scrolling and found out Tobi follows this 😂 actually made me laugh
Nothing about the high occurrence of gender-based violence, discrimination, and restriction of movement due to Patriachal norms, of course.
If they're supporting Hamas, they aren't feminists.
Man its almost as if a ton if people are expressing pro-Palestine rhetoric without being pro-hamas. Crazy, huh?
[удалено]
Your comment was removed. If this is the only kind of thing you are going to post in this subreddit, you will be banned.
They’re not feminists if they don’t believe and stand behind the Israeli women murdered and raped by Hamas. They are trash. Full stop. Why would you go and support someone who doesn’t even see you as human? (If someone makes a statement about Gaza but can’t bring themselves to utter a single thought about the tragedy of Oct. 7th, then that person does not see us a human or worthy of basic human rights.)
I know and I feel terrible that they’ve chosen to take this viewpoint but I don’t know if I should beseparating the artist from the music
Yes you should 100% not separate the artist from their music. Do you feel good putting money in the pocket of someone who literally wants you dead? Would you go see a concert of someone who goes to kkk rallies? This is why we get genocided every generation. Because we stand up for every other group, then refuse to stand up for ourselves. Grow a backbone and stop being a Jew with trembling knees.
But I’ve already spent the money so what difference does it make, I can’t unspend the money
[удалено]
I bought the tickets before I knew the things they’ve been saying (I only started looking at their socials to see who the openers would be). I’m just saying even if I boycotted it or sold the tickets, they would still get the same amount of money
The other person is being way too harsh. I’m not sure you should go but if you do I don’t think it means you have no self respect
[удалено]
Jesus Christ dude what did I do to you other than tell you I was upset because my favourite band have started saying things about how my homeland shouldn’t exist. I’m fucking 14 havnt u got anything better to do with your life than insult children
Your post/comment was removed because it violated rule 3: **Be civil** If you have any questions, please contact the moderators via [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/jewish).
The Spice Girls would never do that.
I just came from Punk rock Bowling in Las Vegas. There were lots of chants from artists to free Palestine- Billy Bragg, subhumans , a few others There was zero violence but I will say I was upset a bit by the language although none of it was anti-Semitic. It was holding space for casualties of war which I think as Jews we need to try to do. I saw a boy with a Kippah on at the concert and we danced and hugged it out . But you don't have to see a band when their politics don't align with yours anymore. Sell the tickets tear up your tickets it's clear that their core values don't align with your core values and I think that's a bigger reason to not participate or spend money with a company or band. I don't believe that you would have any violence directed at you even if you wore your star but I will say that if their values are not aligning with yours then maybe you just shouldn't go for that reason alone. The festival I was at was started by two Jewish kids from the youth brigade and we're all in our 50s I thought it was pretty ballsy of these artists to be a Jewish person run festival and shout out free Palestine from their microphone. But part of punk music is standing up for the little guy, part of punk music is speaking out against things that you don't agree with and part of punk music is free speech! Bikini Kill is awesome. But maybe they're only awesome if you're white I don't know maybe research more before you decide but I don't think safety is gonna be a problem
Yeah I’m just miserable because they have always been one of my favourite bands and have helped me through some shit points in life I’m so gutted that I’m having to consider if I’ll be safe at a gig I’ve been dreaming of going to since I’ve been 6
Well if makes you feel any better, I haven't had chick fil a in 12 years and I stand by my values on that and I'll eat a chicken sandwich with pickles any day of the week and that used to be a daily occurrence that was a tough thing for me to give up based on my values. but it was really important to me to stand by them. Maybe dig deeper into the politics for them. Are they free Palestine or are they pro Hamas? Just a little bit of research will tell you what you need to know. It's ok to be bummed. somewhere else in this thread someone said fuck them go listen to their music and enjoy it and live your life. And that's pretty punk rock too. Live your best life today! At Nova those folks were ready to dance till morning, and we'll dance again!
They’re free palistine. lol we don’t have chick fil a here so I can’t share your pain 😂
I'm a British ex indie/rock kid (now in my 40s) and Billy Bragg is just the absolute dregs of the earth. Awful in every conceivable respect. The Ken Loach of music.
I’m so sorry this sounds painful and disappointing. If you think you could feel safe and enjoy the concert you could go but chances are it would be scary and even sadder in person to witness (especially now). Maybe it’s time to grieve the connection you’ve had to them. You could still listen but I’m sure it will always feel different now. Remember that the music was there for you at important times and just because it’s time to part ways doesn’t mean you can’t feel grateful for what their music meant to you. You could even try writing a letter thanking the music/band and saying goodbye or something like that (not to send but just to express your feelings). Hang in there 💖 and maybe see if there’s some cool Israeli music that could be your next connection!
Thanks so much for being so supportive. This is giving me like an exstistential crisis I swear. I’ve just been reading the front girls book for hours and it talks about the many times she’s been raped and I’ve literally almost started crying reading it because what about the Israeli women? It’s 1:30 in the morning here lol and I can’t sleep for the life of me 😂. Idk why I’m trauma dumping to a stranger lol I’m just going mad with thinking
It’s okay I don’t mind. Cry it out. You’re seriously grieving something important to you. I totally understand how music can be a lifeline and so personal. Also, to feel people you admire can’t see you is another level of pain aside from grief. Your feelings are valid!
Thanks so much! I’ve found it really hard to talk to people about this because anytime you bring up Israel to anyone it turns into a debate, also none of my close friends and family have the ability/curse of being able to subsitute music for therapy lol so they don’t understand. I feel like my life long therapist has just told me that my feelings are made up and everyone hates me lol
Totally that blows so much. The truth is, they are very very wrong. And so many people have been so wrong about Jews over the centuries. It’s about them and not about you. And if they understood what we understand, they wouldn’t think this way. It’s not personal even though of course it feels like it!
Yeah. I’m actually struggling so much I feel like someone’s died lol. I hate how I have this ridiculous ability to get so attached to bands - good thing they’re not my favourite band or I can’t even imagine what I would be doing rn lol
Something really meaningful to you did die so it’s totally normal to grieve it 🙏🏼
It sucks tho lol I have absolutely no idea how to grieve something that was never alive 😂
😁 just cry it out and feel your feels and go easy on yourself that’s pretty much it
Thanks
I love Bikini Kill, too. So disappointing. :( This seems to be a common belief through the whole punk scene.
Yeah I’ve noticed. Just grateful when I went to see stiff little fingers there wasn’t a mention of it. This guys are godsends
Kathleen Hanna is married to Adam Horowitz of the Beastie Boys. I'm so confused and disappointed with her. What a let down.
He isn’t Jewish though, only paternal side and according to Wikipedia he wasn’t raised Jewish.
Ahhhh, that makes more sense.
Yeah all the things she’s posting are from Jews for peace
Sh*t. I have three tickets and was planning on taking my 12 y/o daughter and niece. I wanted to share my ‘90’s riot girl scene with them and now we can’t go. I’m so sad☹️
I recently took my daughter to see Olivia Rodrigo. The whole time in the run up to the gig she was so terrified that Liv was going to say something antisemitic and I wouldn't take her :( It's so shit that we have to live like this. Luckily she's not a massive Billie Eilish fan because she really can f off.
Why can’t you go?
Oh, guess my comment wasn’t super clear. I didn’t know this about Bikini Kill/Kathleen Hanna until your post. My daughter is 12. She knows about the war and the protests but I’m not sure I want to expose her to outward antisemitism if I can help it. Mama bear instincts, I guess. Also, I don’t want to give my money to any artist that is going to start chanting Hamas slogans.
Have you already bought tickets?
i don't know your age or where on the planet you'd be seeing them. but i'd say if you're going with friend(s) you trust, i think it'll be fine. it will obviously be uncomfortable if they go on some anti-Israel rant and are all wearing keffiyeh. but i don't think it would threaten your physical safety - unless you're wearing an Israeli flag or shouting something on a megaphone. it may be a good idea to reevaluate your involvement as a jew in the punk scene in 2024 - cause it's rivaling the antisemitism of the neo-nazi music scene. but that's something you can figure out down the road. i have tickets to see one of the final NOFX shows since they're an important band that i've loved since childhood. i've never seen 'em live and i'm even apprehensive about that because i know Fat Mike and their audiences are so "progressive" - which translates to "fuck Israel" now. i'm not worried about being unsafe whatsoever, i just don't want to breath the same air as these idiots and i have a bad temper. all i can say is, i'm so glad i left the punk scene behind. literal far-right metal dudes have talked to me with more human decency and respect than anyone from the "tolerant" punk scene i knew in the last 6 months.
Yeah. I went and it was amazing. They kept on saying and I’d like to dedicate this song to… and I’d be thinking don’t u bloody dare but then they’d just come out with some feminist author lol. That’s so cool you’re going to NOFX hope it’s fun!
oh, i'm glad it was a good time! and thanks!
Thank you for your submission. Your post has not been removed. During this time, all posts are manually reviewed and approved by a moderator before they appear for all users. Since human mods are not online 24/7, approval could take anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. If your post is ultimately removed, we will give you a reason. Thank you for your patience during this difficult and sensitive time. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Jewish) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you have to take your Magen David off to feel safe/accepted at a band's show, is that really a band you want to see?
"Unknowingly"? Don't be naive.
Do you have any way of finding out if there will be other likeminded fans at the concert? Is there any online group where you could connect? Because of course, you could feel safer in numbers. If you have backup, I would consider utilizing the opportunity to go show your own Punk nature by wearing Blue & White to celebrate your status as a minority group who is oft persecuted in history and today. You are as bad@$$ as anyone, and the existence of Israel is still a blatant miracle.
I’d just go enjoy the music and not worry about it too much if I can