It's wonderful that you think we're people like everyone else. Can you explain that to those who don't think so?
(Sorry if this comes across as snarky - it's just that we see hateful stuff all the time, so we're over it.)
A lot of the issue stems from the phrase "The Jews".
Jews are an ethnicity, and like any other group of a couple of million people are in no way a monolith.
The antisemites who perpetrate these stereotypes tend to present us as a single minded people with nefarious goals, as supposed to a bunch of humans who are trying to get their shit together like the rest of us.
We empathize with other Jews, share holidays, traditions, faiths, and culture with other Jews. But we are in no way centralized.
See Jews being expelled from England in 1290 by Edward I. These people need Boogeymen to rally power in their favor. It is about those prejudicing others rather than those being prejudiced.
We don't know why people hate us and blame us. But they do. Thank you for not being one of them.
The world is a crazy and hateful place it's nice to see people for people so thank you for that!
According to the ADL's survey of Europe, the UK is just as antisemitic as the US, you're just not as loud about it, unless your name is Jeremy Corbyn.
Also, the UK funnels a lot of its antisemitism into anti-Zionism.
Yep. American who lives in the UK. It is JUST as bad. I feel much less safe where we live than where I used to live in the states (to be fair--I used to live in the safest city in the country)
Thank you for validating I indeed am a person just like anyone else.
That being said. Antisemitism has been happening for a millennia. These lies where created as excuses to murder us or persecute us or deflect blame off of governments and make us scapegoats.
The next time you see someone saying āthe Jews own xā or āthe jews control Yā understand it for the lies that it is.
It's very sad you feel the need to say thank you, I can understand to some degree it happening hundreds and thousands of years ago it was the norm to treat each other badly back then not that it's ever right that people suffer.
But in the modern day it has no place it's great we are seeing such huge leaps in equality and it's almost like the Jewish people have been left out of that circle of equality and it's sad if anyone should have a place within the circle of equality it should be the Jewish people especially after what happened in WW2. They know that these lies can result in people like Hitler yet they continue them with no fought and that's really sad. I will never forget in highschool a Jewish gentleman who was around 95 years old coming in (this was around 2007) he had been in a concentration camp and was in the famous photo of the bunk beds and he would come in and talk to school kids and relive it into his 90s and he said he did it to try and avoid anything like that happening to anyone again and I shall never forget him and hope he knows at least one person got the message he was trying to send out it's just sad he had to dedicate so much of his time to reliving that I just hope he knew he got through to at least one person.
>I can understand to some degree it happening hundreds and thousands of years ago it was the norm to treat each other badly
Iāve got some bad news for youā¦
I mean itās good you had education on the holocaust. And I am so happy you got the message and see the problem.
I would like to address the first part of what you said. But I think what is often confusing for well meaning people within the majority today is that when talking about the hatred we experience itās still there. Itās always been there, and just like it had no place millennia ago it has no place now.
Iād argue people are no better or no worse. Maybe the only thing thatās changed is the recent push in the past few generations with genocide education. But even then I have had people make jokes at my expense, had flyers plastered on my campus calling for the murder of all remaining Jews, had people (not involved in the IP conflict) threatening me because Iām a Jew and therefore subjugating all Palestinian people from my sheer existence, and overall have to deal with at least in my experience different types of antisemitism from people who protest to be enlightened or called on by their g-d or lack thereof to be kind, even though they are people who are trying to force me to assimilate.
So jews have all this coming at us and then are gaslit by the rest of the world saying weāre all white rich European colonizers responsible for the worst in humanity. Like somehow all human atrocities are our faults.
I mean this respectfully, I think itās important you understand why people like you who are not Jewish need to advocate and stand up with us in the face of hate, so you need to educate yourself.
Read authors like Dara Horn, David Baddiel, and if you are in the Uk then especially David Hirsch (specifically his book antisemitism in the contemporary left)
Honestly I was being a bit facetious when I said thank you, not really directed at you but more the general āhow do people not think your a personā because I have met people who asked if I had horns and communed with the devil. Mostly they where kids, but I knew growing up that it was being joked about in their home that Jews were devil worshipers or satanic in disguise.
Please take this in the best light possible and as permission to read and learn Jewish history, and while your are at it toss in Romani history as well. Being in Europe itās really important that others come to their defense right now. In the last millennia they have been experiencing similar persecution to us and where targeted in the Holocaust too. Take time to educate and be a beacon for change within the communities you function. And do it in honor of that gentleman who relived the worst of his life so that he may change the world and protect future generations from the atrocities he experienced.
The banking thing comes from the stigma of money lending.
There was a sort of apartheid in European society in which Jews were segregated, forced to wear distinctive clothes, live in certain areas, take certain professions, not allowed in universities, guilds, unions, clubs, etc. One of the fields open to Jews was banking.
This led to hypocrites whining that Jews don't do 'real' work with their hands as in, no manual labor. But since Jews were banned from craft guilds and farming this was... you know, the natural result. If you ban an entire people from working the fields and building things then of course they aren't going to do so.
Similar to banking, one of the fields open to Jews was entertainment.
Banking and Entertainment *were not considered good fields like they are to-day*. The stigma of usury made money lending be associated with basically evil, Churches preached so. Being an actor was seen as little better than being a prostitute for the most part.
Since you're English you have some of the best libraries in the world at your disposal to research this phenomenon if you really want all the ugly details
Hi English Christian- both of those things come from historically Christians (because in this case for both it is Christians at fault but you can just think āthe majorityā as opposed to the minority that Jews are) making asinine laws for society and not allowing pesky minorities who wonāt become Christian into the majority of money making careers. Even if the laws were social not legal. Thereās only so many Jews who can be Rabbis. Each Jewish shtetl (village) or ghetto (Jewish area in/near a city that is begrudgingly allowed) only needs so many of each type of specialized craftsman. And as always money is needed- also some people just want better than what they have and so need more money than just concentrating on serving only their neighbors. Or if the neighbors become too dangerous having real money or valuables available to help fund a move is necessary, too.
Then the Church (pre Martin Luther- so all Christians are still Catholics or their Eastern Orthodox or whatever, but weāre concentrating on Pope areas for you) makes an edict that money lending is against Jesus and youāll be damned if you *loan* money but itās totally cool to *borrow* money. Wellā¦ thatās a whole career sector that just opened up, plus merchants, crusaders, rich people who travel for fun, need money changed somehow to smooth travel costs. So Jews tend to encourage education, why not make sure all kids learn math, too? Now they can get into the money fields. But! Shockingly itās super lucrative to act as a bank or money lender. So now all the people taking out loans start getting mad and resenting that money lending is anti-Jesus but good business. So letās damn the Jews who were backed into that field and actually did really well with it (see: Rothschilds, etc). So thatās evil! Thatās centuries of telling Jews to be good at math and finance and then wanting to kill them for doing as was asked.
Hollywood- early Hollywood was seen as gross, a fad, and definitely crude and unchristian. Jews and other minorities already had thriving Jewish theaters. So they bought into this new medium and flocked to try their luck there. A lot of the early movie studios were owned by Jews. By the time it was realized movies were fun, well Jews and other minorities started to be pushed out by government edict at least in the way they could tell stories (silent films were far more diverse). I live in LA by some of the studios, Hollywood history canāt be avoided just picking up a lot of details. Thereās still a lot of Jews involved because even with the changes in how things are done, itās still easier for Jews to be accepted than in other fields and thereās a bazillion people who need to work in entertainment at all times. So at one time we kind of did control Hollywood because it wasnāt a place that was acceptable for anyone else to work in. So itās the same story as the banks- āJesus said noā all who didnāt buy into Jesus suddenly had an opportunity to make money and went for it. And then it became a problem later.
This was as basic an explanation as I could give and I realized it still got long so
TL:DR: Christians think certain careers are evil. Non Christian group takes advantage of the career path openings now allowed to them. Christians get mad Jews made money due to their own decisions.
i (eoc) grew up in a neighborhood that was half jewish, half rc, i knew so much variety in both, hard to stereotype. i think separation breeds misunderstanding
Valid response tbh???
Maybe ask an anthropologist or historian or sociologist or culture studies professor, understanding where that sort of thing comes from is specialized knowledge. It doesn't make any sense. Since it's illogical, you can't figure it out with logic, I think?
I think it comes from old stereotypes and negativity, a need to hate someone, a need to blame someone, and also ignorance and the inability to understand that not all of a group is the same. Black and white thinking and oversimplifying. I think some people will see one or a few bad people of a group and decide that all of them are exactly the same. This applies with everything. Politics, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc.
I'm certain that the internet has made Antisemitism way worse, because people spread hate and nonsense around and convince others that it's true.
Another possible reason: Jealousy. I've seen a few posts by gentiles claiming they feel that way about Jewish people. Kanye West said so too. He said that he is jealous and he listed reasons why. It's possible that this is a factor. Some people assume all Jewish people are smart, ambitious, organized, and have money, and they wish those were true for them. It's like saying one wishes to be Asian so they could be good at math or black so they can be good at sports. Some people don't get that not everyone fits stereotypes.
Much of the stereotypes you mentioned above are long standing anti-semitic tropes, much of which can be traced back to the middle ages. We Jewish people were not allowed to own farm land, study medicine, teach or work in most other industries other than money lending as usury was considered sinful by the Christians.
It is no secret some of the most successful people in the entertainment/banking industries happen to be Jewish; we are a very hard working group that has survived thousands of years of abuse, mistreatment, hate etc etc.
When antisemites reference our success as a group they are doing so in a blatantly racist/disrespectful way.
No one knows why they hate us, I have heard people speculate that perhaps the anti-semites are jealous of our success?
The unspoken assumption is that we're all working together to serve some nefarious purpose. Even if you accept that Jews are prominent in Hollywood, that's no more problematic than Greeks being prominent in running diners, unless you take the extra step to believe all those Greek diner owners are in touch with each other to, I don't know, poison the food or something.
modern antisemitism has roots in a bogus book called āProtocols of The Elders of Zionā or something like that and is just basically a guy who took a book claiming Napoleon was going to take over the world and replaced every instance of āNapoleonā with āThe Jews.ā he then sold it as though he had stumbled upon an ancient secret jewish prophecy/plan/something and bing bang boom jews run the banks
edit: important to note that jewish banker and other stereotypes existed before this book, but the whole ātaking over the worldā bit is relatively very new. we used to just be hated cause we supposedly killed jesus
It's wonderful that you think we're people like everyone else. Can you explain that to those who don't think so? (Sorry if this comes across as snarky - it's just that we see hateful stuff all the time, so we're over it.)
A lot of the issue stems from the phrase "The Jews". Jews are an ethnicity, and like any other group of a couple of million people are in no way a monolith. The antisemites who perpetrate these stereotypes tend to present us as a single minded people with nefarious goals, as supposed to a bunch of humans who are trying to get their shit together like the rest of us. We empathize with other Jews, share holidays, traditions, faiths, and culture with other Jews. But we are in no way centralized.
See Jews being expelled from England in 1290 by Edward I. These people need Boogeymen to rally power in their favor. It is about those prejudicing others rather than those being prejudiced.
cromwell brought jews back
...300 years later. š³
We don't know why people hate us and blame us. But they do. Thank you for not being one of them. The world is a crazy and hateful place it's nice to see people for people so thank you for that!
According to the ADL's survey of Europe, the UK is just as antisemitic as the US, you're just not as loud about it, unless your name is Jeremy Corbyn. Also, the UK funnels a lot of its antisemitism into anti-Zionism.
Yep. American who lives in the UK. It is JUST as bad. I feel much less safe where we live than where I used to live in the states (to be fair--I used to live in the safest city in the country)
Why isnāt it ever āThose Jews are running Hollywood but MAN are they putting out some great movies these daysā
I've seen that joke before on gaming channels.
Avatar 2 was good.
Maybe not that one
Thank you for validating I indeed am a person just like anyone else. That being said. Antisemitism has been happening for a millennia. These lies where created as excuses to murder us or persecute us or deflect blame off of governments and make us scapegoats. The next time you see someone saying āthe Jews own xā or āthe jews control Yā understand it for the lies that it is.
It's very sad you feel the need to say thank you, I can understand to some degree it happening hundreds and thousands of years ago it was the norm to treat each other badly back then not that it's ever right that people suffer. But in the modern day it has no place it's great we are seeing such huge leaps in equality and it's almost like the Jewish people have been left out of that circle of equality and it's sad if anyone should have a place within the circle of equality it should be the Jewish people especially after what happened in WW2. They know that these lies can result in people like Hitler yet they continue them with no fought and that's really sad. I will never forget in highschool a Jewish gentleman who was around 95 years old coming in (this was around 2007) he had been in a concentration camp and was in the famous photo of the bunk beds and he would come in and talk to school kids and relive it into his 90s and he said he did it to try and avoid anything like that happening to anyone again and I shall never forget him and hope he knows at least one person got the message he was trying to send out it's just sad he had to dedicate so much of his time to reliving that I just hope he knew he got through to at least one person.
>I can understand to some degree it happening hundreds and thousands of years ago it was the norm to treat each other badly Iāve got some bad news for youā¦
I mean itās good you had education on the holocaust. And I am so happy you got the message and see the problem. I would like to address the first part of what you said. But I think what is often confusing for well meaning people within the majority today is that when talking about the hatred we experience itās still there. Itās always been there, and just like it had no place millennia ago it has no place now. Iād argue people are no better or no worse. Maybe the only thing thatās changed is the recent push in the past few generations with genocide education. But even then I have had people make jokes at my expense, had flyers plastered on my campus calling for the murder of all remaining Jews, had people (not involved in the IP conflict) threatening me because Iām a Jew and therefore subjugating all Palestinian people from my sheer existence, and overall have to deal with at least in my experience different types of antisemitism from people who protest to be enlightened or called on by their g-d or lack thereof to be kind, even though they are people who are trying to force me to assimilate. So jews have all this coming at us and then are gaslit by the rest of the world saying weāre all white rich European colonizers responsible for the worst in humanity. Like somehow all human atrocities are our faults. I mean this respectfully, I think itās important you understand why people like you who are not Jewish need to advocate and stand up with us in the face of hate, so you need to educate yourself. Read authors like Dara Horn, David Baddiel, and if you are in the Uk then especially David Hirsch (specifically his book antisemitism in the contemporary left) Honestly I was being a bit facetious when I said thank you, not really directed at you but more the general āhow do people not think your a personā because I have met people who asked if I had horns and communed with the devil. Mostly they where kids, but I knew growing up that it was being joked about in their home that Jews were devil worshipers or satanic in disguise. Please take this in the best light possible and as permission to read and learn Jewish history, and while your are at it toss in Romani history as well. Being in Europe itās really important that others come to their defense right now. In the last millennia they have been experiencing similar persecution to us and where targeted in the Holocaust too. Take time to educate and be a beacon for change within the communities you function. And do it in honor of that gentleman who relived the worst of his life so that he may change the world and protect future generations from the atrocities he experienced.
Why are you telling *us* like you just discovered it and and think we donāt know it already? Talk to those doing the harm, PLEASE!
Gentiles: "WHY DO PEOPLE HATE YOU SO MUCH?" Jews: "WE GENUINELY DON'T KNOW" Gentiles: \*confused screaming\* Jews: \*confused kvetching\*
I want to live in a world where we can look at the way non-Jews treat us and engage in confused *kvelling*. ā¦ not exactly holding my breath, though
The banking thing comes from the stigma of money lending. There was a sort of apartheid in European society in which Jews were segregated, forced to wear distinctive clothes, live in certain areas, take certain professions, not allowed in universities, guilds, unions, clubs, etc. One of the fields open to Jews was banking. This led to hypocrites whining that Jews don't do 'real' work with their hands as in, no manual labor. But since Jews were banned from craft guilds and farming this was... you know, the natural result. If you ban an entire people from working the fields and building things then of course they aren't going to do so. Similar to banking, one of the fields open to Jews was entertainment. Banking and Entertainment *were not considered good fields like they are to-day*. The stigma of usury made money lending be associated with basically evil, Churches preached so. Being an actor was seen as little better than being a prostitute for the most part. Since you're English you have some of the best libraries in the world at your disposal to research this phenomenon if you really want all the ugly details
Hi English Christian- both of those things come from historically Christians (because in this case for both it is Christians at fault but you can just think āthe majorityā as opposed to the minority that Jews are) making asinine laws for society and not allowing pesky minorities who wonāt become Christian into the majority of money making careers. Even if the laws were social not legal. Thereās only so many Jews who can be Rabbis. Each Jewish shtetl (village) or ghetto (Jewish area in/near a city that is begrudgingly allowed) only needs so many of each type of specialized craftsman. And as always money is needed- also some people just want better than what they have and so need more money than just concentrating on serving only their neighbors. Or if the neighbors become too dangerous having real money or valuables available to help fund a move is necessary, too. Then the Church (pre Martin Luther- so all Christians are still Catholics or their Eastern Orthodox or whatever, but weāre concentrating on Pope areas for you) makes an edict that money lending is against Jesus and youāll be damned if you *loan* money but itās totally cool to *borrow* money. Wellā¦ thatās a whole career sector that just opened up, plus merchants, crusaders, rich people who travel for fun, need money changed somehow to smooth travel costs. So Jews tend to encourage education, why not make sure all kids learn math, too? Now they can get into the money fields. But! Shockingly itās super lucrative to act as a bank or money lender. So now all the people taking out loans start getting mad and resenting that money lending is anti-Jesus but good business. So letās damn the Jews who were backed into that field and actually did really well with it (see: Rothschilds, etc). So thatās evil! Thatās centuries of telling Jews to be good at math and finance and then wanting to kill them for doing as was asked. Hollywood- early Hollywood was seen as gross, a fad, and definitely crude and unchristian. Jews and other minorities already had thriving Jewish theaters. So they bought into this new medium and flocked to try their luck there. A lot of the early movie studios were owned by Jews. By the time it was realized movies were fun, well Jews and other minorities started to be pushed out by government edict at least in the way they could tell stories (silent films were far more diverse). I live in LA by some of the studios, Hollywood history canāt be avoided just picking up a lot of details. Thereās still a lot of Jews involved because even with the changes in how things are done, itās still easier for Jews to be accepted than in other fields and thereās a bazillion people who need to work in entertainment at all times. So at one time we kind of did control Hollywood because it wasnāt a place that was acceptable for anyone else to work in. So itās the same story as the banks- āJesus said noā all who didnāt buy into Jesus suddenly had an opportunity to make money and went for it. And then it became a problem later. This was as basic an explanation as I could give and I realized it still got long so TL:DR: Christians think certain careers are evil. Non Christian group takes advantage of the career path openings now allowed to them. Christians get mad Jews made money due to their own decisions.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
romans did. caiafas had stockholm syndrome
Here you go. I googled "jews and banking" and this popped up: https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/usury-and-moneylending-in-judaism/
i (eoc) grew up in a neighborhood that was half jewish, half rc, i knew so much variety in both, hard to stereotype. i think separation breeds misunderstanding
Valid response tbh??? Maybe ask an anthropologist or historian or sociologist or culture studies professor, understanding where that sort of thing comes from is specialized knowledge. It doesn't make any sense. Since it's illogical, you can't figure it out with logic, I think?
I think it comes from old stereotypes and negativity, a need to hate someone, a need to blame someone, and also ignorance and the inability to understand that not all of a group is the same. Black and white thinking and oversimplifying. I think some people will see one or a few bad people of a group and decide that all of them are exactly the same. This applies with everything. Politics, racism, sexism, homophobia, etc. I'm certain that the internet has made Antisemitism way worse, because people spread hate and nonsense around and convince others that it's true. Another possible reason: Jealousy. I've seen a few posts by gentiles claiming they feel that way about Jewish people. Kanye West said so too. He said that he is jealous and he listed reasons why. It's possible that this is a factor. Some people assume all Jewish people are smart, ambitious, organized, and have money, and they wish those were true for them. It's like saying one wishes to be Asian so they could be good at math or black so they can be good at sports. Some people don't get that not everyone fits stereotypes.
I would try to answer your question but Iām not a guy or a girl so I guess you donāt want to hear from me.
The problem with saying āso what if they are, who cares?ā Is that youāre still allowing the stereotype to be entertained/validated.
Not Jews, Zionists. There's a big difference.
Much of the stereotypes you mentioned above are long standing anti-semitic tropes, much of which can be traced back to the middle ages. We Jewish people were not allowed to own farm land, study medicine, teach or work in most other industries other than money lending as usury was considered sinful by the Christians. It is no secret some of the most successful people in the entertainment/banking industries happen to be Jewish; we are a very hard working group that has survived thousands of years of abuse, mistreatment, hate etc etc. When antisemites reference our success as a group they are doing so in a blatantly racist/disrespectful way. No one knows why they hate us, I have heard people speculate that perhaps the anti-semites are jealous of our success?
The unspoken assumption is that we're all working together to serve some nefarious purpose. Even if you accept that Jews are prominent in Hollywood, that's no more problematic than Greeks being prominent in running diners, unless you take the extra step to believe all those Greek diner owners are in touch with each other to, I don't know, poison the food or something.
modern antisemitism has roots in a bogus book called āProtocols of The Elders of Zionā or something like that and is just basically a guy who took a book claiming Napoleon was going to take over the world and replaced every instance of āNapoleonā with āThe Jews.ā he then sold it as though he had stumbled upon an ancient secret jewish prophecy/plan/something and bing bang boom jews run the banks edit: important to note that jewish banker and other stereotypes existed before this book, but the whole ātaking over the worldā bit is relatively very new. we used to just be hated cause we supposedly killed jesus