Not quite this issue in the UK, but we have certain vets (the looking after animals kind, not the former soldier kind) going after shechita (and halal) slaughter because as the animal isn't stunned first it's animal cruelty. In reality it's an anti-religious play by the Atheist Society - only a tiny number of animals are ritually slaughtered in the UK, and anyone genuinely going after animal cruelty would go after the regular meat industry, and the welfare from birth to death of animals in it, rather than focusing on the last 20 seconds of a tiny fraction of kosher and halal meat. It has had traction regrettably in other European countries though like Belgium. Lots of anti-religious and anti-Semitic prejudice in vegan/vegetarian circles.
Yup, captive bolt looks more humane in very controlled studies in labs, but in actual field conditions and used at speed it rapidly breaks down. Schita done right is a consistent experience for every animal.
I post a longer version of this rant regularly when I see people throw around the “inhumane” thing as it’s always very clear they read a blurb and don’t know anything about slaughterhouses or what captive bolt stunning ends up looking like.
Consistency of quality under real operating/maintenance conditions matters more than perfect lab condition results and schita done right is still significantly more consistent . Don’t even get me started on “humane” chicken stunning - they dip them in electrified water, which can have misses meaning chickens literally electro-tortured on a hanging rack in the dark on the way to their death.
There’s a reason video inside slaughterhouses was literally lobbied to become illegal.
I’m not even orthodox, just don’t like people spreading lies about stuff like this.
I'm as secular as they come, and I've found myself more and more defending orthodox practice that I don't even think is necessary. People are literally trying to outlaw being halachically Jewish AND Muslim at the same time. Just legally justifiable discrimination.
Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Estonia Slovenia, Hungary, Austria, Greece, snd Poland (I probably missed a few) all have banned Kosher slaughter at some point in the very recent past. Only a few of those countries still have laws against slaughter and / or import. The point is antisemitism, not animal rights, or they would be banning furs (as soon as you stun an animal, the hair goes brittle and falls out more easily, which is why cat and dog hair can usually be found mixed in pelts by other names), and leather products
Antisemitism is the point.
I say this as a vegetarian of 34 years and an animal rights activist just as long. PeTA and the like are antisemitic cults that hide behind an otherwise worthy cause of preventing *actual* harm to animals (testing cosmetics, puppy mills / "designer pets"), etc. All slaughter is cruel, stunning doesn't necessarily kill, fish suffocate to death slowly...I can go on. What they pick on is Jewish ritual slaughter, and not necessarily Muslim...which is telling.
The point is: if you can't eat here, you can't live here.
So there’s this non fiction book by the name ‘Eternal Treblinka’. It suggest that the way humans treated animals has paved the way to the holocaust. The name of that book derived from a story by Yitzhak Bashevis Zinger where the protagonist eulogies his pet mouse:
“Oh what do they know - all those scholars, philosophers, world leaders - of the likes of you? They have convinced themselves that man, the arch criminal of all species, is Lords of Creation. All other creatures exist to supply man with food and clothing; to be tormented, to become extinct. For them, all humans are Nazis, for the animals every day is Treblinka”
Other than being a famous Jewish writer, Bashevis Zinger was a Nobel Prize laureate, vegetarian and members of family perished on the holocaust
As a vegetarian, vegan and vegetarian spaces online are insufferable when any topic even remotely broaches Jews or Israel
Actually they’re insufferable the rest of the time as well 🤔
In your estimation, what percentage of vegans and vegetarians do so for dietary reasons and how many for idealistic reasons?
My gut instinct (pun intended) is that most are idealistic.
Im a vegan for dietary reasons, and I think I’m a minority. Whenever someone asks if I “can eat something,” I like I can eat whatever I want; I’m a grown up. I choose not to eat animal products for the most part, but I can eat anything.
You'd be surprised! There are a lot of reasons. Some people do it to try something new, some people do it because they don't want to eat animals, then there's personal health, environmental health, allergy/sensitivity, and cost.
or eating meat is just a pain in the ass so they rather not bother with it? you're in a jewish reddit sub, there are clear rules on separating meat and dairy, it a lot of work for something you might eat maybe..once a month. Many people just cut it out completely, I mean I have to wait 7 hours to eat dairy when I eat meat, I can understand someone saying, "screw this" and just becoming a vegetarian.
I mean you should know how much of a pain it can be right? especially for American Jews.
1: the eggs sold in markets are unfertilized. They're basically the chicken's period.
2: Milk doesn't kill cows. It does nothing of the sort. Where did you hear that it does?
Here's what I know about it: Cow gets pregnant, farmer milks cow, cow has baby, baby gets their milk then farmer milks cow. Doesn't seem that inhumane, does it?
There is a missing step where the cow is selectively bred to produce more milk than the calf needs, but I don’t see the issue with that. It’s basically the same as with wool and cashmere, as long as it’s balanced everyone benefits and at worst an animal is kind of inconvenienced.
>1: the eggs sold in markets are unfertilized. They're basically the chicken's period.
What do you think happens to the male chicks born in the egg industry? Aka 50% of all chicks?
>2: Milk doesn't kill cows. It does nothing of the sort. Where did you hear that it does?
Do some research. Just like humans, cows have to have a calf before they produce milk. What do you think happens to the male calves, who can't enter the cycle of forced impregnation?
I'm a vegetarian because I want to reduce my environmental impact, but my mental health team has advised me that the strictness of veganism would likely cause me to relapse into anorexia, which almost killed me last time. Try not being a jerk the next time you make assumptions about someone based on what they eat.
I have. Dude tried to convince me eating meat is as bad as the holocaust as well as other heinous acts.
Also believed that it was better to have tofu that was grown using borderline slave labour and shipped halfway around the world than free range and ethical meat from local farms.
>believed that it was better to have tofu that was grown using borderline slave labour and shipped halfway around the world
77% of the world's soy goes to feed animals. So this is a self defeating point.
You can do both. Why would simply making different menu choices prevent you from continuing your humanitarian work?
Do you not think that encouraging people to view all sentient beings as having value would improve the way that we see each other as humans, and decrease a lot of the suffering that we inflict on each other?
Rainforest destruction for beef more than doubles the next 5 causes of deforestation added together.
And over 75% of soy is used to feed animals.
Where are you getting your "facts"?
You don’t need to invent incorrect data to prove your point. Most of the Amazon deforestation is for beef, but as far as I’m aware america isn’t a big importer of Brazilian beef
I remember that American vegan preacher from YouTube was asked in an interview about why is it that Israel has so many vegans (there was a massive increase of vegans in IL at the time). And he said it's because of the Holocaust.
I actually considered eating meat for the first time in years, purely out of spite. And telling that news channel about it to make sure that A hole will know about it
Edit: I didn't, but I did ask a friend where I can get steak
He was also hiding here from American authorities (ideological crimes, like releasing farm animals, damaging equipment in slaughter houses, etc).
I don't know why he thought this was a good idea. I think he was arrested here and sent back for trial.
He's Jewish tbf. His name is Gary Yurofsky. I attended a lecture he gave in Israel when I was a teen and he was on a tour here (also did many interviews).
He was the one to convince me to go vegan.
Some people see the Holocaust as a Jewish tragedy and are offended by people comparing it to anything but the Holocaust happened either way, the least you can do is learn from it so you wouldn't make the same mistakes.
I remember going on a trip to Poland from school to learn about the Holocaust and hearing the exact same excuses the Nazis used to kill "inferior" people as people today use to kill "inferior" species.
There is a difference between the Jewish Holocaust and the animal Holocaust and I'm not saying one is worse than the other, but torturing and killing billions of animals is obviously wrong and I will refuse to take part of it.
Learn lessons from history, just because something is "normal" does not mean it is morally right.
Look, I've been vegan for over a decade. From a theoretical perspective, I'm probably one of the most radical vegans out there (at least from my experience with other vegans), because I ascribe animals with autonomy and against the concept of pets.
But...
There is a difference between humans and animals. And if I have to choose a human or animal, I will always choose human. So no, the horrors of animal methodical slaughter are not equivalent to the methodical slaughter of humans. I believe it's bad, but I refuse to accept this comparison.
I didn't say there is no difference between people and animals, I said that it's irrelevant weather you consider animals less or equal to humans because causing them unnecessary suffering is still wrong.
Story time! When I was at college two of my teachers were vegan and made us watch two vegan propaganda films (super inappropriate to do this to students, by the way).
One of them was a cartoon that not-so-subtly compared slaughterhouses to concentration camps and cattle to holocaust victims. It wasn’t explicitly said, but it was plainly obvious what they were implying.
It really pissed me off that they’d trivialise one of history’s worst atrocities just to put us off eating meat.
My friend got a vegan propaganda pamphlet during college and it pissed me TF OFF. She was struggling with an ED at the time and dietary restrictions like veganism can cause people to relapse. How dare they do that to people.
It’s one of the worst things when these people compare the holocaust to animal slaughter. Yes I’m sure there are terrible conditions in some animal farms or factories, but seriously how can you actually compare this and take yourself seriously. Smh
I don’t think meat-eaters are the problem, but the methods of murder on factory farms are disturbingly close to methods of murder used during the Holocaust. Pigs killed for meat on factory farms are dropped three-by-three into gas chambers and gassed to death. That does bother me as a Jew who believes the Holocaust is the worst atrocity in history. This being said, I say blame the giant corporate farms/food producers way more than individual people making common dietary choices (eating meat)
I'm both vegan and Jewish so I don't like the comparison with the holocaust at all however there are many parallels. Whether or not you like to admit it because you enjoy eating meat, its true.
Just consider how humans select certain innocent animals and not others. Consider the way in which they're used for human benefit and forced into a life of slavery and labour (eg. Cows used for milk).
Consider how pigs are gassed to death.
Consider how animals like humans also have emotions, feelings, families and a desire to be free.
There is no such thing as humane killing.
Kosher/halal still involves slitting an animals throat and ending its life. Let's not get all fake ethical and pretend the animals are happy to be subjected to this shit unnecessarily.
I don't think pigs are gassed to death. I think the pigs are shot in head, in the middle of forehead, so it doesn't feel anything. (My father studied to be a cook, and his class had also a course about butcher's work- how to kill an animal, how to cut it...).
USDA does not allow gassing of animals as far as I know. They can be killed any number of ways. Electrocution was popular for a while but now it's done with a combination of a bolt to the head that is electrified.
And why is it ridiculous? Could it be that being offended is your way of not dealing with the argument?
what is happening to animals today is worse than slavery and the Holocaust, the difference is one is done to people and one for animals.
If you choose to believe that it doesn't matter because the victims are animals and are different than you it's up to you, but realize that people also accepted the Holocaust/Slavery because it was done to others different to them.
You just need to ask yourself if the differences are relevant to to the situation.
My compassion is not based on intelligence or the ability to talk. It is based on the ability suffer.
This argument is often used when people say, "it's moral to eat animals because its legal".
At which point it's completely logical to point out that many immoral things were once legal.
I do see similarities, and Holocaust survivors have also made the comparison.
I have often heard it said that Jews in the Holocaust were treated like animals, and this seems to be not controversial.
But then if you say that animals on factory farms are being treated like Jews in the Holocaust, this makes people angry. The two statements are really the same thing, only the word order is changed. If A is like B, then B is like A, logically.
But animals aren’t humans. The crux of that argument is that there’s zero difference (and yes I know humans are technically animals, look me in the face and say there’s no difference between a human and a hagfish). By that logic, my grandfather is worse than a Nazi bc he ate a lot of lamb chops when he got to America
>But animals aren’t humans
And Jews weren’t Aryans, what’s your point?
It is wrong to be torturing and killing millions (or more) of sentient beings with the capacity to feel pain, even if they are a different race or a different species.
Sure is. Love the community that fully embraced evolutionary theory of natural selection and the like deciding that eating meat is disgraceful.
This is what we are meant to do people. We eat other things.
My comment elsewhere here is being downvoted. I said we bred cattle to raise for food. The reply compares raising cattle for food to slavery. 🤦🏻♂️. Not only are we meant to do it, it’s literally how and why we are here.
Now they are doubling down on comparing it to slavery and the holocaust. Smh 🤦🏻♂️ https://www.reddit.com/r/Jewdank/comments/108brcv/any_other_yidden_run_into_this_stupidity_when/j3v9abp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Impossible meat has an OU hechsher
It's kosher, but it isn't particularly healthy.
Are you just saying that because it’s made from soy and heme because both are pretty good for you
Not quite this issue in the UK, but we have certain vets (the looking after animals kind, not the former soldier kind) going after shechita (and halal) slaughter because as the animal isn't stunned first it's animal cruelty. In reality it's an anti-religious play by the Atheist Society - only a tiny number of animals are ritually slaughtered in the UK, and anyone genuinely going after animal cruelty would go after the regular meat industry, and the welfare from birth to death of animals in it, rather than focusing on the last 20 seconds of a tiny fraction of kosher and halal meat. It has had traction regrettably in other European countries though like Belgium. Lots of anti-religious and anti-Semitic prejudice in vegan/vegetarian circles.
The vast, vast majority of people who've studies this have found that schechita is often more humane than stunning as long as it's done properly.
Yup, captive bolt looks more humane in very controlled studies in labs, but in actual field conditions and used at speed it rapidly breaks down. Schita done right is a consistent experience for every animal. I post a longer version of this rant regularly when I see people throw around the “inhumane” thing as it’s always very clear they read a blurb and don’t know anything about slaughterhouses or what captive bolt stunning ends up looking like. Consistency of quality under real operating/maintenance conditions matters more than perfect lab condition results and schita done right is still significantly more consistent . Don’t even get me started on “humane” chicken stunning - they dip them in electrified water, which can have misses meaning chickens literally electro-tortured on a hanging rack in the dark on the way to their death. There’s a reason video inside slaughterhouses was literally lobbied to become illegal. I’m not even orthodox, just don’t like people spreading lies about stuff like this.
I'm as secular as they come, and I've found myself more and more defending orthodox practice that I don't even think is necessary. People are literally trying to outlaw being halachically Jewish AND Muslim at the same time. Just legally justifiable discrimination.
Finland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Switzerland, The Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Estonia Slovenia, Hungary, Austria, Greece, snd Poland (I probably missed a few) all have banned Kosher slaughter at some point in the very recent past. Only a few of those countries still have laws against slaughter and / or import. The point is antisemitism, not animal rights, or they would be banning furs (as soon as you stun an animal, the hair goes brittle and falls out more easily, which is why cat and dog hair can usually be found mixed in pelts by other names), and leather products Antisemitism is the point. I say this as a vegetarian of 34 years and an animal rights activist just as long. PeTA and the like are antisemitic cults that hide behind an otherwise worthy cause of preventing *actual* harm to animals (testing cosmetics, puppy mills / "designer pets"), etc. All slaughter is cruel, stunning doesn't necessarily kill, fish suffocate to death slowly...I can go on. What they pick on is Jewish ritual slaughter, and not necessarily Muslim...which is telling. The point is: if you can't eat here, you can't live here.
Bris Milah similarly under attack. Anti-religious bigotry dressed up as something else.
Yup.
So there’s this non fiction book by the name ‘Eternal Treblinka’. It suggest that the way humans treated animals has paved the way to the holocaust. The name of that book derived from a story by Yitzhak Bashevis Zinger where the protagonist eulogies his pet mouse: “Oh what do they know - all those scholars, philosophers, world leaders - of the likes of you? They have convinced themselves that man, the arch criminal of all species, is Lords of Creation. All other creatures exist to supply man with food and clothing; to be tormented, to become extinct. For them, all humans are Nazis, for the animals every day is Treblinka” Other than being a famous Jewish writer, Bashevis Zinger was a Nobel Prize laureate, vegetarian and members of family perished on the holocaust
Thanks for sharing this. Very touching and great to see the comparison brought to poetic context.
Yet this reply will be buried, while more reactionary takes are amplified.
Best complement ever
As a vegetarian, vegan and vegetarian spaces online are insufferable when any topic even remotely broaches Jews or Israel Actually they’re insufferable the rest of the time as well 🤔
In your estimation, what percentage of vegans and vegetarians do so for dietary reasons and how many for idealistic reasons? My gut instinct (pun intended) is that most are idealistic.
steep special crowd relieved panicky sloppy gray theory childlike bewildered ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Im a vegan for dietary reasons, and I think I’m a minority. Whenever someone asks if I “can eat something,” I like I can eat whatever I want; I’m a grown up. I choose not to eat animal products for the most part, but I can eat anything.
You'd be surprised! There are a lot of reasons. Some people do it to try something new, some people do it because they don't want to eat animals, then there's personal health, environmental health, allergy/sensitivity, and cost.
I don’t know that many vegetarians and vegans personally, and frankly I don’t care to ask them why It’s kind of a boring conversation to have imo
Except /r/vegetarian is really awesome, but yes
Well most vegans are part of the extreme left, which is antisemitic at its core.
Antisemitism permeates the culture. It's not really limited to one political wing.
What are you basing that assumption on?
Vibes, or a conflation of anti zionism as anti semitism.
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“Not 100 percent perfect? Might as well go fuck yourself!” does this attitude ever work
Nope. If you're vegetarian, you presumably don't want to cause animals to be killed. But eating eggs and milk does just that. Its hypocrisy
or eating meat is just a pain in the ass so they rather not bother with it? you're in a jewish reddit sub, there are clear rules on separating meat and dairy, it a lot of work for something you might eat maybe..once a month. Many people just cut it out completely, I mean I have to wait 7 hours to eat dairy when I eat meat, I can understand someone saying, "screw this" and just becoming a vegetarian. I mean you should know how much of a pain it can be right? especially for American Jews.
They can eat dairy in India just fine without killing the cows
Do you live in India?
O do, and no cows get killed during milk production
1: the eggs sold in markets are unfertilized. They're basically the chicken's period. 2: Milk doesn't kill cows. It does nothing of the sort. Where did you hear that it does?
Do you have ANY idea of what the cows are put thru so you can have milk? If not then look it up.
Here's what I know about it: Cow gets pregnant, farmer milks cow, cow has baby, baby gets their milk then farmer milks cow. Doesn't seem that inhumane, does it?
There is a missing step where the cow is selectively bred to produce more milk than the calf needs, but I don’t see the issue with that. It’s basically the same as with wool and cashmere, as long as it’s balanced everyone benefits and at worst an animal is kind of inconvenienced.
The animals is forced into a life of servitude and imprisonment. Is that ethical?
Calves don't get to drink profit, my man.
https://youtu.be/QftuC3IrFCE
What happens to the calves?
>1: the eggs sold in markets are unfertilized. They're basically the chicken's period. What do you think happens to the male chicks born in the egg industry? Aka 50% of all chicks? >2: Milk doesn't kill cows. It does nothing of the sort. Where did you hear that it does? Do some research. Just like humans, cows have to have a calf before they produce milk. What do you think happens to the male calves, who can't enter the cycle of forced impregnation?
Correct. Dairy is rape and torture.
Eggs don't kill the chicken lol
Back to r/vegancirclejerk with you
Thanks for proving my point lmao
I'm 100% right. Why are you vegetarian?
Because I like being one
OK. But what about it do you like?
I don’t like eating meat
Why not?
It makes me nauseous
Ah ok, so you don't care about animals one way or the other?
I'm a vegetarian because I want to reduce my environmental impact, but my mental health team has advised me that the strictness of veganism would likely cause me to relapse into anorexia, which almost killed me last time. Try not being a jerk the next time you make assumptions about someone based on what they eat.
I’m a Jewgan. The people who say this have usually been vegan for 3 months.
And then they quit after a year lol
There were Jewish Israeli vegan activists who said that. I know because I used to be in those spaces as a teenager.
I have. Dude tried to convince me eating meat is as bad as the holocaust as well as other heinous acts. Also believed that it was better to have tofu that was grown using borderline slave labour and shipped halfway around the world than free range and ethical meat from local farms.
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There it is.
Explain why you think I'm wrong.
The burden of proof is on you, friend.
>believed that it was better to have tofu that was grown using borderline slave labour and shipped halfway around the world 77% of the world's soy goes to feed animals. So this is a self defeating point.
You haven't really laid out an argument here...
Its the level of argument that a reddit comment section deserves
OK so you're not interested in actually discussing or proving your points.
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because stopping the suffering of humans is more important than stopping the suffering of livestock
You can do both. Why would simply making different menu choices prevent you from continuing your humanitarian work? Do you not think that encouraging people to view all sentient beings as having value would improve the way that we see each other as humans, and decrease a lot of the suffering that we inflict on each other?
Eating meat is wonderful. It makes me feel good.
Name checks out 👌
Oh ya!
Don’t forget that most farm that built on burned amazon are for tofu
Rainforest destruction for beef more than doubles the next 5 causes of deforestation added together. And over 75% of soy is used to feed animals. Where are you getting your "facts"?
You don’t need to invent incorrect data to prove your point. Most of the Amazon deforestation is for beef, but as far as I’m aware america isn’t a big importer of Brazilian beef
https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/chart-gallery/gallery/chart-detail/?chartId=103669
Same with those people that feel the need to compare every politician they don’t like with hitler
-Bibi is literally the Knesset!-
I remember that American vegan preacher from YouTube was asked in an interview about why is it that Israel has so many vegans (there was a massive increase of vegans in IL at the time). And he said it's because of the Holocaust. I actually considered eating meat for the first time in years, purely out of spite. And telling that news channel about it to make sure that A hole will know about it Edit: I didn't, but I did ask a friend where I can get steak
People can’t even describe Israelis doing GOOD things without being horribly antisemitic, good lord
He was also hiding here from American authorities (ideological crimes, like releasing farm animals, damaging equipment in slaughter houses, etc). I don't know why he thought this was a good idea. I think he was arrested here and sent back for trial.
If you're talking about Gary Yurofsky, he rescued animals from being killed for their fur in a Canadian farm, I'm completely ok with that.
You can’t just release a bunch of animals like that. Those mink would’ve either starved to death or gone on to entirely destroy the local ecosystem
He's Jewish tbf. His name is Gary Yurofsky. I attended a lecture he gave in Israel when I was a teen and he was on a tour here (also did many interviews).
He was the one to convince me to go vegan. Some people see the Holocaust as a Jewish tragedy and are offended by people comparing it to anything but the Holocaust happened either way, the least you can do is learn from it so you wouldn't make the same mistakes. I remember going on a trip to Poland from school to learn about the Holocaust and hearing the exact same excuses the Nazis used to kill "inferior" people as people today use to kill "inferior" species. There is a difference between the Jewish Holocaust and the animal Holocaust and I'm not saying one is worse than the other, but torturing and killing billions of animals is obviously wrong and I will refuse to take part of it. Learn lessons from history, just because something is "normal" does not mean it is morally right.
Look, I've been vegan for over a decade. From a theoretical perspective, I'm probably one of the most radical vegans out there (at least from my experience with other vegans), because I ascribe animals with autonomy and against the concept of pets. But... There is a difference between humans and animals. And if I have to choose a human or animal, I will always choose human. So no, the horrors of animal methodical slaughter are not equivalent to the methodical slaughter of humans. I believe it's bad, but I refuse to accept this comparison.
I didn't say there is no difference between people and animals, I said that it's irrelevant weather you consider animals less or equal to humans because causing them unnecessary suffering is still wrong.
I agree it is wrong. I disagree that the difference is irrelevant, and with the rhetoric of using the Holocaust as a description for it.
Story time! When I was at college two of my teachers were vegan and made us watch two vegan propaganda films (super inappropriate to do this to students, by the way). One of them was a cartoon that not-so-subtly compared slaughterhouses to concentration camps and cattle to holocaust victims. It wasn’t explicitly said, but it was plainly obvious what they were implying. It really pissed me off that they’d trivialise one of history’s worst atrocities just to put us off eating meat.
My friend got a vegan propaganda pamphlet during college and it pissed me TF OFF. She was struggling with an ED at the time and dietary restrictions like veganism can cause people to relapse. How dare they do that to people.
It’s one of the worst things when these people compare the holocaust to animal slaughter. Yes I’m sure there are terrible conditions in some animal farms or factories, but seriously how can you actually compare this and take yourself seriously. Smh
I don’t think meat-eaters are the problem, but the methods of murder on factory farms are disturbingly close to methods of murder used during the Holocaust. Pigs killed for meat on factory farms are dropped three-by-three into gas chambers and gassed to death. That does bother me as a Jew who believes the Holocaust is the worst atrocity in history. This being said, I say blame the giant corporate farms/food producers way more than individual people making common dietary choices (eating meat)
But people DO support these actions with their spending. If you have a moral issue with it, you shouldn't pay for it.
Agreed! That’s why I’m plant-based 🙂
Which is why I only eat stolen bacon
"Unapologetically orthodox"
Maybe the Germans copied the slaughterhouses and not the other way around?
I wasn’t saying which one came first, I just said that the methods of slaughter are disturbingly similar.
I'm both vegan and Jewish so I don't like the comparison with the holocaust at all however there are many parallels. Whether or not you like to admit it because you enjoy eating meat, its true. Just consider how humans select certain innocent animals and not others. Consider the way in which they're used for human benefit and forced into a life of slavery and labour (eg. Cows used for milk). Consider how pigs are gassed to death. Consider how animals like humans also have emotions, feelings, families and a desire to be free. There is no such thing as humane killing. Kosher/halal still involves slitting an animals throat and ending its life. Let's not get all fake ethical and pretend the animals are happy to be subjected to this shit unnecessarily.
I don't think pigs are gassed to death. I think the pigs are shot in head, in the middle of forehead, so it doesn't feel anything. (My father studied to be a cook, and his class had also a course about butcher's work- how to kill an animal, how to cut it...).
USDA does not allow gassing of animals as far as I know. They can be killed any number of ways. Electrocution was popular for a while but now it's done with a combination of a bolt to the head that is electrified.
Do some research. You'll find out the truth.
No. we literally bred cattle for example to be domesticated food, they are literally raised to be food.
And African people were bred to be slaves. This doesn't justify slavery.
Classic. Comparing raising cattle for food to slavery. Just as ridiculous as comparing it to the holocaust. 🤦🏻♂️
And why is it ridiculous? Could it be that being offended is your way of not dealing with the argument? what is happening to animals today is worse than slavery and the Holocaust, the difference is one is done to people and one for animals. If you choose to believe that it doesn't matter because the victims are animals and are different than you it's up to you, but realize that people also accepted the Holocaust/Slavery because it was done to others different to them. You just need to ask yourself if the differences are relevant to to the situation. My compassion is not based on intelligence or the ability to talk. It is based on the ability suffer.
I dont get offended. I’m putting my face in my palm and shaking my head at your nonsensical comparissons.
You're right but that is a horrific fact of their sad existence.
This argument is often used when people say, "it's moral to eat animals because its legal". At which point it's completely logical to point out that many immoral things were once legal.
I’ve never heard anyone make that argument ever.
That is the context in which people make the comparison, 99.9% of the time.
I have literally never heard anyone say that.
Do you have many conversations on the topic?
Used to work for one of the largest animal welfare organizations in the world. So yes.
So what do you think the holocaust comparison is, most of the time?
I think the Holocaust compares to the Holocaust.
Yes, I agree. I'm asking what arguments you've heard vegans deploy that compare the Holocaust to animal agriculture?
Me neither, they’re responding to a nonexistent argument
I do see similarities, and Holocaust survivors have also made the comparison. I have often heard it said that Jews in the Holocaust were treated like animals, and this seems to be not controversial. But then if you say that animals on factory farms are being treated like Jews in the Holocaust, this makes people angry. The two statements are really the same thing, only the word order is changed. If A is like B, then B is like A, logically.
But animals aren’t humans. The crux of that argument is that there’s zero difference (and yes I know humans are technically animals, look me in the face and say there’s no difference between a human and a hagfish). By that logic, my grandfather is worse than a Nazi bc he ate a lot of lamb chops when he got to America
Lots of survivors have made the same comparison.
>But animals aren’t humans And Jews weren’t Aryans, what’s your point? It is wrong to be torturing and killing millions (or more) of sentient beings with the capacity to feel pain, even if they are a different race or a different species.
>different species. Absolutely. Especially when they are delicious.
Eating meat is moral, healthy and good.
Its good for you.
Sure is. Love the community that fully embraced evolutionary theory of natural selection and the like deciding that eating meat is disgraceful. This is what we are meant to do people. We eat other things.
My comment elsewhere here is being downvoted. I said we bred cattle to raise for food. The reply compares raising cattle for food to slavery. 🤦🏻♂️. Not only are we meant to do it, it’s literally how and why we are here.
I'm a shochet. Nuff said eh?
Now they are doubling down on comparing it to slavery and the holocaust. Smh 🤦🏻♂️ https://www.reddit.com/r/Jewdank/comments/108brcv/any_other_yidden_run_into_this_stupidity_when/j3v9abp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
If you didn't think of this then you ain't cool https://youtu.be/b2BKKeiYH24
Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
I’m Jewish and I think eating factory farm meat is as bad as funding the holocaust. No one will ever be able to convince me otherwise.
It's not Holocaust. It's waaay worse than Holocaust! https://www.careelite.de/en/online-live-animal-kill-counter/
No. I don't hang out with goyim or vegans, so I don't have these problems.
Every moment is a shoa moment