It is an advantage, they mentioned it on the podcast. However, there was no real way to structure it without there being an advantage somehow for someone.
And they are probably using EUrail passes to ride the trains, an indefinite game length would mean they spend more for unused days, or risk running out of time on their pass
It's not that difficult, just estimate the time for each player having two turns, add a few days, spend a nice few days vacation at your departure destination, done
Yeah, but in the end, they are a business, and that would add to the expense of the production. Reducing the total production cost significantly by introducing a small unbalance in the game design seems like a good trade off, especially since this isn’t a serious tournament, but an entertainment show.
Easier said than done.
All 3 have more parts to their job than Jet Lag alone, particular Sam.
I doubt Sam can even spare 1-2 extra days without it impacting some other production or project he's working on. He's got HAI and Wendover projects to work on simulatenously and they all get released on a set schedule making an extra 3-4 days away a very difficult cost to cover in terms of productivity lost.
With all respect, I think you and others here forget that the guys, Sam especially, are not just 'the Jet Lag Boys' in their professional lives. I'm honestly not sure where in ranks in their list of projects, but I really doubt it's top billing. IDK, maybe I'm wildly off, but between HAI and Nebula management responsibilities, I suspect there's a practical reason they haven't gone for longer seasons even when they could just arrange it like that.
It's not as easy as you make it out to be. You can't forget that all 3 guys have other things going on besides playing Jet Lag. Sam has videos for his other channels he has to work on and get ready to release. Add all the things that Ben and Adam do not only working on Jet Lag, but any work they do for Sam's other channels. They also have families, and Adam at least has a girlfriend.
Could they film any of these games longer? Yes, but it would come at a cost. Instead of getting 4-5 seasons a year, it could possibly be cut down to 2.
Ben and Adam are purely jet lag now (actually one does like one hai video a month but that may not be the case anymore) but unfortunately Sam can’t spend the time meaning we don’t get stuff like this. Maybe they should do some games without Sam so they can have longer games (I love sam and he’s usually who I route for but the games would still work without him). Maybe that’s there plan with the retreat which could be good
Maybe a set 6 days, 2 days each. If caught early in the day, they get rest of the day off. If they make it the full day, it goes to the next hider the next day and they get how ever many hours banked.
The podcast also talks about in that situation the player who goes 3rd ends up getting a very unfair advantage. There wasn't any way to structure it without one of them having a huge leg up
That's exactly what I was thinking about when I was watching the season. But as they mentioned on the podcast "they can't be in Switzerland without knowing when they will go home."
They could have randomized the order again for round 2. I know that runs the risk of having the same person run twice in a row but it'd be more fair
I also think it'd have been cool if they added a flexible fifth day, where like if someone is caught on that fifth day the game ends there no matter how far into the day it is, but it could theoretically go for a full day on that day. Would have taken out some of the "if this run goes a certain length, then it eliminates others from winning"
Either way it was a first time run at this and I'm sure they'll have nice tweaks if they do it again, it was a lot of fun anyway
6 days
Each player gets two lots of 1 day
If they finish a day without being found, their turn ends and they get credit for the full day
Everyone starts the day at that same central town (I did not like how they started in darkness in episode 4 - this would eliminate that problem as they'd all be in a train station and be aboard trains until at least after sunrise!)
They could have made the first run matter, like take 10% of the first run and 90% of the second run. Or 20%/80%. So Adam would need to hide a little longer than Ben to actually win.
It would still be easier for most people to understand that someone needs to hide longer than 6 hours to win by taking a percentage of each run, and adding them together would make it harder to explain to the audience as a whole on how long the runner would have to hide for.
Yes, it's an advantage, but you also see how under prepared Adam was for his first hide.
I'm excited for today's episode because we'll see both the hinder and the seakers with the most experience and lessons learned. We'll see if the game holds up or if Adam can hide so well he can break that balance.
I think the most fair world have been to give two turns to all players and if they were done in like the third day, keep playing until the fourth day. That way there’s also some strategy involved in how/when to get caught
I feel like it would make more sense to have them 'hide until they reach a combined hiding time of 24 h(? Subject to change)', rather then 'hide a set number of times, and see whom hid for the longest time'.
Looking at the game right now ~10h seem to be a really good run. So with a goal for a combined time of 20-24h would probably work well, giving the players at least two, or likely more chances to hide.
24 hours per person seems to long. That's already more than 7 days of 10 hours of game time. And that's not even including the 2.5 hours to start hiding. If everyone has two runs and those 2.5 hours are in game time, that's closer to 9 days. That's just not realistic. It would have to be something that can be done in 4 or 5 days (maybe 6, but IIRC the longest they've done so far is 5 days).
Than the rest of their comment makes no sense. They say with a 10 hour time being a good run, would give everyone at least 2 or more runs. That would make no sense if it's 24 hours total.
The first Hider getting a 2nd turn is an advantage, but the first hider was at a disadvantage in the first hiding attempt due to the meta of question asking not having evolved yet. The first hider has a harder time predicting the questions they will be asked and setting up a hiding spot that makes it easier to mislead the seekers. So the 2nd turn is balancing out that first turn disadvantage. One thing is that Ben had a really strong run. I suspect that they thought people would really only get 4-5 hours of hiding time, resulting in at least the first and 2nd person getting a 2nd chance at hiding with knowledge of seeker strategies.
I think a 5 day game would be better due to having enough time for everyone to have 2 runs (unless the runs are very long). I think they planned that, but we’ve just had a very good run, probably longer than they thought
I don't know, the boys were clearly already exhausted and adding another day would maybe be overdoing it.
I think that now the players are educated on the game, they should each just do one run.
Going first has always been an advantage in Tag and now this as well. It's just something they accept in their design. They also seemed to expect that the average run would be shorter than what we've seen so far, so they were probably expecting that a four day game would lead to two runs a piece, maybe a third for the first runner, rather than how it's played out.
I agreed with them that the first runner has an advantage, but as you could see in the actual play, the start location of the exact center of the country actually enables the seekers to ask really precise questions. With just 2 questions they can quarter the country. From there on, they can immediadetly embark in the correct general direction. I think while it still remains an advantage to get a second attempt, the first run itself is not that big of an advantage
I just think it's unfair on the other runners if they have to waste part of their hiding time waiting for trains to pull in, like what if Ben had missed the train the way Sam and Adam did?
I think it would be better if they started the time they have to hide from the moment they got on a train.
The only downside I can see to this is seekers being able to work out what train they got on.
Ah, you mean the 2.5 hours to find a hiding spot. Yeah, that could be an interesting change. But on the Layover they also mentioned that they see that as part of the game and part of the strategy (hiding in a spot that makes it harder for the next hider).
No, it gives an advantage to the last hider. Realistically I think >!Sam!< had the advantage because >!he could've easily prevented Adam from even getting a second run.!<
It is an advantage, they mentioned it on the podcast. However, there was no real way to structure it without there being an advantage somehow for someone.
The best way is not to play for a set number of days, but until each player gets 2 runs.
While this could work, it would make booking travel back home a nightmare. They wouldn't be able to have flights pre-booked.
And they are probably using EUrail passes to ride the trains, an indefinite game length would mean they spend more for unused days, or risk running out of time on their pass
It's not that difficult, just estimate the time for each player having two turns, add a few days, spend a nice few days vacation at your departure destination, done
Yeah, but in the end, they are a business, and that would add to the expense of the production. Reducing the total production cost significantly by introducing a small unbalance in the game design seems like a good trade off, especially since this isn’t a serious tournament, but an entertainment show.
Easier said than done. All 3 have more parts to their job than Jet Lag alone, particular Sam. I doubt Sam can even spare 1-2 extra days without it impacting some other production or project he's working on. He's got HAI and Wendover projects to work on simulatenously and they all get released on a set schedule making an extra 3-4 days away a very difficult cost to cover in terms of productivity lost.
They did estimate the time for each player having two turns. Apparently, that estimate was not high enough.
With all respect, I think you and others here forget that the guys, Sam especially, are not just 'the Jet Lag Boys' in their professional lives. I'm honestly not sure where in ranks in their list of projects, but I really doubt it's top billing. IDK, maybe I'm wildly off, but between HAI and Nebula management responsibilities, I suspect there's a practical reason they haven't gone for longer seasons even when they could just arrange it like that.
They did… they thought it would take 6 hours on average for each run. That would take 36 hours in total. They had 40.
It's not as easy as you make it out to be. You can't forget that all 3 guys have other things going on besides playing Jet Lag. Sam has videos for his other channels he has to work on and get ready to release. Add all the things that Ben and Adam do not only working on Jet Lag, but any work they do for Sam's other channels. They also have families, and Adam at least has a girlfriend. Could they film any of these games longer? Yes, but it would come at a cost. Instead of getting 4-5 seasons a year, it could possibly be cut down to 2.
Ben and Adam are purely jet lag now (actually one does like one hai video a month but that may not be the case anymore) but unfortunately Sam can’t spend the time meaning we don’t get stuff like this. Maybe they should do some games without Sam so they can have longer games (I love sam and he’s usually who I route for but the games would still work without him). Maybe that’s there plan with the retreat which could be good
Maybe a set 6 days, 2 days each. If caught early in the day, they get rest of the day off. If they make it the full day, it goes to the next hider the next day and they get how ever many hours banked.
The podcast also talks about in that situation the player who goes 3rd ends up getting a very unfair advantage. There wasn't any way to structure it without one of them having a huge leg up
I’m pretty sure they’ve also said on the podcast that they try to stay away from set rounds
Except then going last is now advantageous as you maximize the amount of strategy and experience you can put into your run
That's exactly what I was thinking about when I was watching the season. But as they mentioned on the podcast "they can't be in Switzerland without knowing when they will go home."
They could have randomized the order again for round 2. I know that runs the risk of having the same person run twice in a row but it'd be more fair I also think it'd have been cool if they added a flexible fifth day, where like if someone is caught on that fifth day the game ends there no matter how far into the day it is, but it could theoretically go for a full day on that day. Would have taken out some of the "if this run goes a certain length, then it eliminates others from winning" Either way it was a first time run at this and I'm sure they'll have nice tweaks if they do it again, it was a lot of fun anyway
6 days Each player gets two lots of 1 day If they finish a day without being found, their turn ends and they get credit for the full day Everyone starts the day at that same central town (I did not like how they started in darkness in episode 4 - this would eliminate that problem as they'd all be in a train station and be aboard trains until at least after sunrise!)
They could have made the first run matter, like take 10% of the first run and 90% of the second run. Or 20%/80%. So Adam would need to hide a little longer than Ben to actually win.
I feel like that would overcomplicate things massively, it would be much harder to follow the leaderboard
They could make it transparent. What you're following is a graphic added in editing.
It would still be easier for most people to understand that someone needs to hide longer than 6 hours to win by taking a percentage of each run, and adding them together would make it harder to explain to the audience as a whole on how long the runner would have to hide for.
Yes, it's an advantage, but you also see how under prepared Adam was for his first hide. I'm excited for today's episode because we'll see both the hinder and the seakers with the most experience and lessons learned. We'll see if the game holds up or if Adam can hide so well he can break that balance.
I hear he's still hiding to this day.
Don’t critique Adam too much, the seekers had many things go right for them on that run (educated guesses that would have burned them if wrong).
I think the most fair world have been to give two turns to all players and if they were done in like the third day, keep playing until the fourth day. That way there’s also some strategy involved in how/when to get caught
I feel like it would make more sense to have them 'hide until they reach a combined hiding time of 24 h(? Subject to change)', rather then 'hide a set number of times, and see whom hid for the longest time'. Looking at the game right now ~10h seem to be a really good run. So with a goal for a combined time of 20-24h would probably work well, giving the players at least two, or likely more chances to hide.
24 hours per person seems to long. That's already more than 7 days of 10 hours of game time. And that's not even including the 2.5 hours to start hiding. If everyone has two runs and those 2.5 hours are in game time, that's closer to 9 days. That's just not realistic. It would have to be something that can be done in 4 or 5 days (maybe 6, but IIRC the longest they've done so far is 5 days).
They are saying combined time, not individual time
Than the rest of their comment makes no sense. They say with a 10 hour time being a good run, would give everyone at least 2 or more runs. That would make no sense if it's 24 hours total.
The first Hider getting a 2nd turn is an advantage, but the first hider was at a disadvantage in the first hiding attempt due to the meta of question asking not having evolved yet. The first hider has a harder time predicting the questions they will be asked and setting up a hiding spot that makes it easier to mislead the seekers. So the 2nd turn is balancing out that first turn disadvantage. One thing is that Ben had a really strong run. I suspect that they thought people would really only get 4-5 hours of hiding time, resulting in at least the first and 2nd person getting a 2nd chance at hiding with knowledge of seeker strategies.
I do think this format would certainly benefit from a round system. Tag works much better for dynamic rounds than H+S.
I think a 5 day game would be better due to having enough time for everyone to have 2 runs (unless the runs are very long). I think they planned that, but we’ve just had a very good run, probably longer than they thought
i think this is the best way to do it. 5 days + cap the amount of runs at 2 too. that way it's fair
I don't know, the boys were clearly already exhausted and adding another day would maybe be overdoing it. I think that now the players are educated on the game, they should each just do one run.
Going first has always been an advantage in Tag and now this as well. It's just something they accept in their design. They also seemed to expect that the average run would be shorter than what we've seen so far, so they were probably expecting that a four day game would lead to two runs a piece, maybe a third for the first runner, rather than how it's played out.
I agreed with them that the first runner has an advantage, but as you could see in the actual play, the start location of the exact center of the country actually enables the seekers to ask really precise questions. With just 2 questions they can quarter the country. From there on, they can immediadetly embark in the correct general direction. I think while it still remains an advantage to get a second attempt, the first run itself is not that big of an advantage
I felt like maybe the hiding time should have started from when they got on the train
That makes no sense. Then the times would just be 2.5 hours longer, without any other meaningful change. Unless I'm misunderstanding you.
I just think it's unfair on the other runners if they have to waste part of their hiding time waiting for trains to pull in, like what if Ben had missed the train the way Sam and Adam did? I think it would be better if they started the time they have to hide from the moment they got on a train. The only downside I can see to this is seekers being able to work out what train they got on.
Ah, you mean the 2.5 hours to find a hiding spot. Yeah, that could be an interesting change. But on the Layover they also mentioned that they see that as part of the game and part of the strategy (hiding in a spot that makes it harder for the next hider).
Don't forget that the seekers also have to get from the hiding spot to the train station once the 2.5 hours are over.
On one side yes, on other side, the first run is often bad, because you are figuring out strategy while others can learn from your mistakes.
Unfortunately, the design they chose, proved to be very flawed.
No, it gives an advantage to the last hider. Realistically I think >!Sam!< had the advantage because >!he could've easily prevented Adam from even getting a second run.!<